Say Anything - In Defense of the Genre

[hockeyguitar99]

Say Anything - In Defense of the Genre
Record Label: J Records
Release Date: October 23, 2007

When Say Anything's label debut ...Is a Real Boy was released in 2004, it took the hearts of pop-punk and indie rock fans everywhere. With Max Bemis' clever lyrics and powerful vocals they showed that they had potential and talent. Following up a disc like that is no easy task. On their 27-track sophomore album, In Defense Of The Genre, they have proved that they don't plan on leaving the music scene any time soon.

On this album, Say Anything venture further away from the more straight indie rock sound of their first album, using a large amount of electronic beats, making this album much more captivating. The guitars are much more improved as well; there are several more guitar lines and solos than on their debut. These two factors paired makes the musical elements more interesting and an overall bigger part of this album.

Bemis' vocals on the release are extremely hard to describe. He puts so much energy and emotion into the songs it adds to his already amazing lyrics. His vocal style differs between beautifully sung melodies to nearly-screamed, emotionally-charged lines. I find his voice to be beautifully unique, which is hard to find in today's music industry.

With all of that said, it still not the best thing about the album: Bemis' lyrics are some of the best that I've heard in a long time. His creative and self-deprecating sarcasm makes me smile every time I listen. Lines like "I remember it vividly love / I've been walking erect since the moment we met" ("Shiksa"), "I'm sorry that I wrecked that tour for us / The drugs left me wigging out on the bus" ("Sorry Dudes, My Bad."), and "I screw my life up evermore / As I puke my lungs out on the floor" ("Hangover Song") display his perfect mix of the aforementioned qualities.

The icing on the cake for this album is all of the guest spots. The likes of Hayley Williams (Paramore), Gerard Way (My Chemical Romance), Chris Conley (Saves The Day), and Kenny Vasoli (The Starting Line), among others, contribute their voices to the album. The contrast between these vocalists and Bemis' is amazing. The most memorable of these collaborations is on the track "Sorry Dudes, My Bad." Chris Conley starts out with a hilarious spoken word line and follows to sing his heart out.

When it's all said and done, In Defense Of The Genre is a great follow up to ...Is A Real Boy. While it lacks the raw catchy factor that made ...Is A Real Boy so different, this album is it's own and special in a different way. This album sets Say Anything in a different direction, but still leaves them in a league of their own. This album is a 27-track adventure that won't soon be forgotten.

unique pop-punk, amazing guest spots, smarmy indie rock, Weatherbox
myspace.com/sayanything (http://www.myspace.com/sayanything)

[Sic Transit Zeb]

While I really like this album, I don't agree with you on the fact of the lyrics being really good. Some of his lyrics are good, while others are just cringe worthy. All in all, I love the album and agree with the score for the most part.

[lilRIPsta]

IDOTG lyrics: overrated
IARB lyrics: not

[teenagetwilight]

"soob be forgotten", typo.

good review, but I don't hear anything special in this band.

[hockeyguitar99]

"soob be forgotten", typo.

good review, but I don't hear anything special in this band.

holy crap, i can't believe i missed that, and I'm surprised adrian missed it too

adrian, could you fix that?

[J Me]

...Is a Real Boy was not their debut??? Baseball was. but good review nonetheless

[liar23]

...Is a Real Boy was not their debut??? Baseball was. but good review nonetheless
exactly what I was going to say

[hockeyguitar99]

...Is a Real Boy was not their debut??? Baseball was. but good review nonetheless

I know, but i was going with more of their label-released, wide spread debut.

[J Me]

I know, but i was going with more of their label-released, wide spread debut.

ok. yeah it was self released. damn they should re-release it under J records.

[hockeyguitar99]

ok. yeah it was self released. damn they should re-release it under J records.

I couldn't agree more.

[iseethesun123]

I know, but i was going with more of their label-released, wide spread debut.


Everyone always goes with the mainstream. And I agree with some of the lyrics making you cringe because of some blatant stupidity. A good record but Ill stick with Baseball and some old demos. It was better then and I dont think Say Anything are headed in a good direction

[Chris Fallon]

Fixed typo and clarified "label" debut so people will stop whining.

[Andrew Love]

...Is a Real Boy was not their debut??? Baseball was. but good review nonetheless
major label debut

[CellarGhosts]

Best guest vocalist moment = Matt Skiba on "About Falling".

[hockeyguitar99]

Best guest vocalist moment = Matt Skiba on "About Falling".

I don't hear it but hey, if he's on there, it's pretty tops.

[CellarGhosts]

I don't hear it but hey, if he's on there, it's pretty tops.
Mhm, it's towards the middle/end of the song. I dunno how much Alkaline Trio you listen to, but them being my 2nd favorite band, I can recognize Skiba's vocals pretty easily. Plus that's the song he's listed as being on.

Anyway, good review, even though I think a 93% is a bit too much. Some songs on this album are really good, some are just a mess. Overall I think that having two whole CD's worth was overkill. They could've farily easily cropped this down to one CD imo. Or at least have saved one CD for a later release date as a whole different album itself.

Another great guest vocalist moment is Trever Keith on "People Like You...". Up the F2F love haha.

[hockeyguitar99]

Mhm, it's towards the middle/end of the song. I dunno how much Alkaline Trio you listen to, but them being my 2nd favorite band, I can recognize Skiba's vocals pretty easily. Plus that's the song he's listed as being on.

Anyway, good review, even though I think a 93% is a bit too much. Some songs on this album are really good, some are just a mess. Overall I think that having two whole CD's worth was overkill. They could've farily easily cropped this down to one CD imo. Or at least have saved one CD for a later release date as a whole different album itself.

Another great guest vocalist moment is Trever Keith on "People Like You...". Up the F2F love haha.

I like a lot of alkaline, i have like 3 or 4 albums. I do love Skiba's guest spots. The best one imo is on the new H2O.

[CellarGhosts]

I like a lot of alkaline, i have like 3 or 4 albums. I do love Skiba's guest spots. The best one imo is on the new H2O.
ah.

I haven't heard that H20 song but I should probably check it out. I know hardly any songs of theirs as it is. X-)

[hockeyguitar99]

ah.

I haven't heard that H20 song but I should probably check it out. I know hardly any songs of theirs as it is. X-)

I didn't really know any of their stuff before this and it's the ony song of theirs that I have, but its definitely worth a listen

Btw the song is called "what happened"

And its funny that we broke out into this huge skiba discussion in my say anything review

[CellarGhosts]

I didn't really know any of their stuff before this and it's the ony song of theirs that I have, but its definitely worth a listen

Btw the song is called "what happened"

And its funny that we broke out into this huge skiba discussion in my say anything review
oh, okay.

Cool, I'll search for it.

Haha, true. not that that's a bad thing, mind you. haha.

[hockeyguitar99]

oh, okay.

Cool, I'll search for it.

Haha, true. not that that's a bad thing, mind you. haha.

Unless people are saying something negative about them, all alk3 discussions are great

[CellarGhosts]

Unless people are saying something negative about them, all alk3 discussions are great
Haha, agreed.

[heyzombiehitler]

Fixed typo and clarified "label" debut so people will stop whining.

Haha

[hockeyguitar99]

Fixed typo and clarified "label" debut so people will stop whining.

thanks Chris.

[Praetor]

Lyrics on this release are vastly overrated, some good ones but overall nothing like ...Is A Real Boy's (which, btw, weren't the genius that people claimed them to be in the first place).

Also, Died A Jew is the best song on the record purely for the lol factor of the first verse.

[Here It Goes]

I don't hear it but hey, if he's on there, it's pretty tops.

"And I don't really even care if I'm alone now...And I don't really even care if you're listening..." - Skeebs

I think it's funny that you compared Say Anything to The Weakerthans, I don't hear the similiarities at all myself but I love both bands to death. Interesting.

[CellarGhosts]

"And I don't really even care if I'm alone now...And I don't really even care if you're listening..." - Skeebs

I think it's funny that you compared Say Anything to The Weakerthans, I don't hear the similiarities at all myself but I love both bands to death. Interesting.
Yeah, that's the part. Skiba ftw.

I agree, haha. I don't hear the Weakerthans similarity at all.

[hockeyguitar99]

"And I don't really even care if I'm alone now...And I don't really even care if you're listening..." - Skeebs

I think it's funny that you compared Say Anything to The Weakerthans, I don't hear the similiarities at all myself but I love both bands to death. Interesting.

Yeah, that's the part. Skiba ftw.

I agree, haha. I don't hear the Weakerthans similarity at all.


I know that they don't really sound that similar. but I believe people that like the weakerthans have a good chance at liking say anything as well. I had trouble thinking of bands that fit with them, which is why I used mostly genres.

[CellarGhosts]

I gotcha. 'sall good.

[a speedo model]

the Weakerthans? Are you kidding me?

[hockeyguitar99]

the Weakerthans? Are you kidding me?

if you scroll up like three posts you'll see that I explained my rationale for picking them.

[a speedo model]

if you scroll up like three posts you'll see that I explained my rationale for picking them.
I saw your response after posting, but my question is still valid, you never actually explained your rationale. I don't see the connection between the two.

[hockeyguitar99]

I saw your response after posting, but my question is still valid, you never actually explained your rationale. I don't see the connection between the two.

Alright, I'll try again.

I realize that they don't really sound the same, but I had trouble thinking of that sounded like them, so instead, I put the weakerthans because I thought that people that liked the weakerthans would also like say anything. The section's called recommended if you like, not sounds like.

[a speedo model]

Alright, I'll try again.

I realize that they don't really sound the same, but I had trouble thinking of that sounded like them, so instead, I put the weakerthans because I thought that people that liked the weakerthans would also like say anything. The section's called recommended if you like, not sounds like.
No, sorry, I do understand what you are saying. I understood that you couldn't think of anyone who sounds like them. My question is why would a fan of the Weakerthans like Say Anything? Sure some do but I just don't see a connection. It'd be like doing a review on Taking Back Sunday and recommending it to fans of The Postal Service or something. Some fans of the Postal Service of course will enjoy it, but there doesn't feel like a connection between the two. I guess putting them in a recommended if you like section suggest a comparision of some kind, perhaps I am wrong.

Sorry, don't want to be a dick, I just found it odd. I am a Weakerthans fan and dislike Say Anything, haha.

[hockeyguitar99]

No, sorry, I do understand what you are saying. I understood that you couldn't think of anyone who sounds like them. My question is why would a fan of the Weakerthans like Say Anything? Sure some do but I just don't see a connection. It'd be like doing a review on Taking Back Sunday and recommending it to fans of The Postal Service or something. Some fans of the Postal Service of course will enjoy it, but there doesn't feel like a connection between the two. I guess putting them in a recommended if you like section suggest a comparision of some kind, perhaps I am wrong.

Sorry, don't want to be a dick, I just found it odd. I am a Weakerthans fan and dislike Say Anything, haha.


I understand what your saying. I always got the same sort of feel from both of the bands, and thats a factor in why I like them. I figured that if people enjoyed that certain feel, than they may also like say anything.

[a speedo model]

I understand what your saying. I always got the same sort of feel from both of the bands, and thats a factor in why I like them. I figured that if people enjoyed that certain feel, than they may also like say anything.
Fair enough, that works for me, haha.

[Kid B]

I completely disagree with the lyrics thing. They sound like forced rhymes. "The drugs left me wigging out on the bus"? Come on.

[You Won't Know]

Seriously, what is with all this hate on IDOTG? Is that the cool hipster thing to do right now? Is IDOTG not indie enough? Or is everyone pissed because they are actually getting some real radio and video play? Because I just don't hear anything that justifies ripping it.

I fucking love this record. Max came out with 27 songs and damn near all of them are very well written. There's honestly 2 or 3 (maybe) that I skip past on the whole record... and even then, they are some of my friends' favorite songs.

Everyone is knocking the record for not being "...Is a Real Boy" but that's because it is intentionally something different. Max said himself that he was more comfortable making music that would be less Guided by Voices and more in the vein of Saves the Day or Jimmy Eat World, because those are his favorite bands.

Lyrically, there are some misses, there always will be for some person in 27 songs. But you can't deny how intelligent the writing is, and how there really is a fantastic, witty storyline throughout the record, which is something I really admire.

More interestingly, the record really defines and rewrites a genre. Call it pop-punk, emo, whatever you want, but Max stretches the boundaries. He has a song with hip hop samples ("No Soul"), a cabaret song that turns into reggae ("That Is Why"), a hardcore punk song ("People Like You..."), an acoustic borderline-country song ("Retarded in Love"), an electronica song ("Baby Girl, I'm a Blur"), a keyboard driven romp ("The Church Channel"), and a potential top 40 monster ("Shiksa"), and that's just in the FIRST 13 SONGS.

And amazingly enough, they are still all very Say Anything. Meaning, they have the oustanding vocal hooks, catchy choruses, roots in creative pop indie rock/punk and the disgustingly honest (and sometimes hilarious) witty lyrics.

In summation, I've listened to Baseball, as well as the ridiculous amount of EPs Max has put out. (Anyone heard the For Sale EP? Awesome record...) As much as I love "Slumming It With Johnny" or "Resounding," to say that Say Anything hasn't improved as a band or Max hasn't done better as a songwriter is an outlandish, ridiculous statement. Clearly, some people resent that SA is on a major label, which I understand on some level.

But this band has always written cheeky, catchy, extremely accessible pop songs. Why slam Max for wanting to make this a career? He hasn't sold out, he's just continued to get better at his craft. There isn't any real change in the type of songs - they are just getting played on the radio now that he has a major label push.

I really wish I had just put together a review when IDOTG came out, I feel like I could write something great. But at least I got my two cents in now.

[hockeyguitar99]

Seriously, what is with all this hate on IDOTG? Is that the cool hipster thing to do right now? Is IDOTG not indie enough? Or is everyone pissed because they are actually getting some real radio and video play? Because I just don't hear anything that justifies ripping it.

I fucking love this record. Max came out with 27 songs and damn near all of them are very well written. There's honestly 2 or 3 (maybe) that I skip past on the whole record... and even then, they are some of my friends' favorite songs.

Everyone is knocking the record for not being "...Is a Real Boy" but that's because it is intentionally something different. Max said himself that he was more comfortable making music that would be less Guided by Voices and more in the vein of Saves the Day or Jimmy Eat World, because those are his favorite bands.

Lyrically, there are some misses, there always will be for some person in 27 songs. But you can't deny how intelligent the writing is, and how there really is a fantastic, witty storyline throughout the record, which is something I really admire.

More interestingly, the record really defines and rewrites a genre. Call it pop-punk, emo, whatever you want, but Max stretches the boundaries. He has a song with hip hop samples ("No Soul"), a cabaret song that turns into reggae ("That Is Why"), a hardcore punk song ("People Like You..."), an acoustic borderline-country song ("Retarded in Love"), an electronica song ("Baby Girl, I'm a Blur"), a keyboard driven romp ("The Church Channel"), and a potential top 40 monster ("Shiksa"), and that's just in the FIRST 13 SONGS.

And amazingly enough, they are still all very Say Anything. Meaning, they have the oustanding vocal hooks, catchy choruses, roots in creative pop indie rock/punk and the disgustingly honest (and sometimes hilarious) witty lyrics.

In summation, I've listened to Baseball, as well as the ridiculous amount of EPs Max has put out. (Anyone heard the For Sale EP? Awesome record...) As much as I love "Slumming It With Johnny" or "Resounding," to say that Say Anything hasn't improved as a band or Max hasn't done better as a songwriter is an outlandish, ridiculous statement. Clearly, some people resent that SA is on a major label, which I understand on some level.

But this band has always written cheeky, catchy, extremely accessible pop songs. Why slam Max for wanting to make this a career? He hasn't sold out, he's just continued to get better at his craft. There isn't any real change in the type of songs - they are just getting played on the radio now that he has a major label push.

I really wish I had just put together a review when IDOTG came out, I feel like I could write something great. But at least I got my two cents in now.

I like how you wrote a review in my review! but I do agree with you.

[Kid B]

More interestingly, the record really defines and rewrites a genre. Call it pop-punk, emo, whatever you want, but Max stretches the boundaries. He has a song with hip hop samples ("No Soul"), a cabaret song that turns into reggae ("That Is Why"), a hardcore punk song ("People Like You..."), an acoustic borderline-country song ("Retarded in Love"), an electronica song ("Baby Girl, I'm a Blur"), a keyboard driven romp ("The Church Channel"), and a potential top 40 monster ("Shiksa"), and that's just in the FIRST 13 SONGS.

This whole paragraph is shit. This album did not define a genre. There are very few songs on the album that sound like something that no other band could do.
No Soul has been done before. Just because it has hip hop samples does not make it something new. Even Travis Barker mixes rock with hip hop, which, not unlike No Soul, sounds like shit.
I disagree with That Is Why being reggae. It is guitar with a delay.
A "hardcore punk song" does not define People Like You at all. It is not hardcore or punk. It has a more upbeat tone to it. It is pop. Just because it is fast paced does not make it hardcore punk. New Found Glory does the same type of song essentially, and they are pop.
It will be a cold day in hell before Retarded In Love is a country song.
Baby Girl is not electronica song. Listen to The Postal Service or Kid A. Those are electronica. Just because this song has evidence of computers does not make it electronica. That is called overproduction. If that is electronica, then every song on this album is electronica.
The Church Channel is keyboard driven for the first verse and the intro.
Shiksa is not a top 40 monster. The intro will be rejected by any one closed-minded.I can't believe you said all of that.

[notoaststereo]

hahahah

[You Won't Know]

This whole paragraph is shit. This album did not define a genre. There are very few songs on the album that sound like something that no other band could do.
No Soul has been done before. Just because it has hip hop samples does not make it something new. Even Travis Barker mixes rock with hip hop, which, not unlike No Soul, sounds like shit.
I disagree with That Is Why being reggae. It is guitar with a delay.
A "hardcore punk song" does not define People Like You at all. It is not hardcore or punk. It has a more upbeat tone to it. It is pop. Just because it is fast paced does not make it hardcore punk. New Found Glory does the same type of song essentially, and they are pop.
It will be a cold day in hell before Retarded In Love is a country song.
Baby Girl is not electronica song. Listen to The Postal Service or Kid A. Those are electronica. Just because this song has evidence of computers does not make it electronica. That is called overproduction. If that is electronica, then every song on this album is electronica.
The Church Channel is keyboard driven for the first verse and the intro.
Shiksa is not a top 40 monster. The intro will be rejected by any one closed-minded.

I can't believe you said all of that.



To begin, anything and everything has been done before by someone, in some form. Even your beloved Radiohead cribbed directly from elements that influenced them like trip-hop and electronica from bands like Massive Attack or Aphex Twin and made Kid A and Amnesiac. (On a side note, I love Radiohead. But if you want to bring down one of my favorite bands, let me return the favor.) So spare me the holier-than-thou attitude. Also, most bands could play these songs. What is different is that these other bands didn't do them all on a single album, with a great lyrical storyline and the tremendous creative output that is "In Defense of a Genre."

Also, if you really read what I wrote carefully, I really don't need to explain myself. But allow me to anyways. In the beginning of the paragraph I wrote "Call it pop-punk, emo, whatever you want, but Max stretches the boundaries." Then afterwards I wrote that the songs are "still all very Say Anything. Meaning, they have the oustanding vocal hooks, catchy choruses, roots in creative pop indie rock/punk..."

Perhaps I should have written "Elements of" before I commented about each of these songs. But honestly, I thought the preface to the paragraph and the comments after could help you understand that I don't mean they are strictly whatever genre I mentioned. Most of the songs have roots in pop punk or indie rock or emo or whatever stupid label you need to get you through the night.

You're just splitting hairs when attempting to slam me for comparing elements of these songs. Of course "Baby Girl" is not an electronica song in the truest sense. Say Anything is not an electronica band. But is "Kid A" really electonica? Because I mean, I could probably say that it has elements of "alternative rock." Or maybe that Bjork or Moby is a better representation of electronica. Seriously, this is the kind of technicalities that you're throwing at me. Say Anything incorporate an industrial beat and synth parts throughout the "Baby Girl." But that clearly is just overproduction and in no way intentional.

"No Soul" is not hip hop. I mean, where's the guest appearance from Ludacris or Akon? Seriously though, you try and crush me on all these songs but they all have at least a hint of the elements I described. Do you not hear the slide guitar on "Retarded in Love?" This is a common country ballad trait. I mean, I'm sure slide guitar has been used in other ways, so please, highlight them all for me, since I have no concept of any other band but Say Anything.

Basically, what it comes down to is that you are the same overbearing, absurdly negative hipster that Bemis so eloquently writes about in "Admit It!" I mean, how is that job reviewing for Pitchfork treating you? Straight up man, what personal gain do you get from slamming a band so many people love and admire? A band that is truly passionate about writing music that they love and is intelligent AND catchy?

You're probably the kind of guy who hates Thursday for being too passionate, or Glassjaw for being too screamy and cathartic or Brand New because they're STILL too accessible. Maybe Every Time I Die! sucks because there aren't any melodic parts. And I have no problem arguing the merits of any of those bands with you all fucking day, also. What it comes down to is you're not even presenting an intelligent argument to me against Say Anything, you're just personally attacking me and then nitpicking about the slight variations between elements of a genre and a certain song being a part of that genre. Just because Say Anything is not getting blown by the vapid indie gods doesn't mean they didn't write a great record. Get over the labels and recognize good music. I do, especially if you have a valid, intelligent argument. But I just don't feel like you do.


"You spend your time sitting in circles with your friends
Pontificating to each other
Forever competing for that one moment of self-aggrandizing glory
In which you hog the intellectual spotlight
Holding dominion over the entire shallow pointless conversation
Oh, we’re not worthy

You are a faker (admit it)
You are a fraud (admit it)
Yeah, you’re living a lie (hey) living a lie (hey) you’re life is living a lie
You don’t impress me (admit it)
You don’t intimidate me (admit it)
Why don’t you bow down, get on the ground, walk this fucking plank (yeah!)"

Take it or leave it, Kid B. I don't need your approval to love the music I enjoy.

[handlikesecret]

you write great reviews, and i agree with the majority of what you said. great album, great review.

[hockeyguitar99]

you write great reviews, and i agree with the majority of what you said. great album, great review.

Thanks :strong:

[Sic Transit Zeb]

This whole paragraph is shit. This album did not define a genre. There are very few songs on the album that sound like something that no other band could do.
No Soul has been done before. Just because it has hip hop samples does not make it something new. Even Travis Barker mixes rock with hip hop, which, not unlike No Soul, sounds like shit.
I disagree with That Is Why being reggae. It is guitar with a delay.
A "hardcore punk song" does not define People Like You at all. It is not hardcore or punk. It has a more upbeat tone to it. It is pop. Just because it is fast paced does not make it hardcore punk. New Found Glory does the same type of song essentially, and they are pop.
It will be a cold day in hell before Retarded In Love is a country song.
Baby Girl is not electronica song. Listen to The Postal Service or Kid A. Those are electronica. Just because this song has evidence of computers does not make it electronica. That is called overproduction. If that is electronica, then every song on this album is electronica.
The Church Channel is keyboard driven for the first verse and the intro.
Shiksa is not a top 40 monster. The intro will be rejected by any one closed-minded.I can't believe you said all of that.

I think you are close minded. Seriously.

[Kid B]

To begin, anything and everything has been done before by someone, in some form. Even your beloved Radiohead cribbed directly from elements that influenced them like trip-hop and electronica from bands like Massive Attack or Aphex Twin and made Kid A and Amnesiac. (On a side note, I love Radiohead. But if you want to bring down one of my favorite bands, let me return the favor.) So spare me the holier-than-thou attitude. Also, most bands could play these songs. What is different is that these other bands didn't do them all on a single album, with a great lyrical storyline and the tremendous creative output that is "In Defense of a Genre."


Also, if you really read what I wrote carefully, I really don't need to explain myself. But allow me to anyways. In the beginning of the paragraph I wrote "Call it pop-punk, emo, whatever you want, but Max stretches the boundaries." Then afterwards I wrote that the songs are "still all very Say Anything. Meaning, they have the oustanding vocal hooks, catchy choruses, roots in creative pop indie rock/punk..."

Perhaps I should have written "Elements of" before I commented about each of these songs. But honestly, I thought the preface to the paragraph and the comments after could help you understand that I don't mean they are strictly whatever genre I mentioned. Most of the songs have roots in pop punk or indie rock or emo or whatever stupid label you need to get you through the night.

You're just splitting hairs when attempting to slam me for comparing elements of these songs. Of course "Baby Girl" is not an electronica song in the truest sense. Say Anything is not an electronica band. But is "Kid A" really electonica? Because I mean, I could probably say that it has elements of "alternative rock." Or maybe that Bjork or Moby is a better representation of electronica. Seriously, this is the kind of technicalities that you're throwing at me. Say Anything incorporate an industrial beat and synth parts throughout the "Baby Girl." But that clearly is just overproduction and in no way intentional.

"No Soul" is not hip hop. I mean, where's the guest appearance from Ludacris or Akon? Seriously though, you try and crush me on all these songs but they all have at least a hint of the elements I described. Do you not hear the slide guitar on "Retarded in Love?" This is a common country ballad trait. I mean, I'm sure slide guitar has been used in other ways, so please, highlight them all for me, since I have no concept of any other band but Say Anything.

Basically, what it comes down to is that you are the same overbearing, absurdly negative hipster that Bemis so eloquently writes about in "Admit It!" I mean, how is that job reviewing for Pitchfork treating you? Straight up man, what personal gain do you get from slamming a band so many people love and admire? A band that is truly passionate about writing music that they love and is intelligent AND catchy?

You're probably the kind of guy who hates Thursday for being too passionate, or Glassjaw for being too screamy and cathartic or Brand New because they're STILL too accessible. Maybe Every Time I Die! sucks because there aren't any melodic parts. And I have no problem arguing the merits of any of those bands with you all fucking day, also. What it comes down to is you're not even presenting an intelligent argument to me against Say Anything, you're just personally attacking me and then nitpicking about the slight variations between elements of a genre and a certain song being a part of that genre. Just because Say Anything is not getting blown by the vapid indie gods doesn't mean they didn't write a great record. Get over the labels and recognize good music. I do, especially if you have a valid, intelligent argument. But I just don't feel like you do.


"You spend your time sitting in circles with your friends
Pontificating to each other
Forever competing for that one moment of self-aggrandizing glory
In which you hog the intellectual spotlight
Holding dominion over the entire shallow pointless conversation
Oh, we’re not worthy

You are a faker (admit it)
You are a fraud (admit it)
Yeah, you’re living a lie (hey) living a lie (hey) you’re life is living a lie
You don’t impress me (admit it)
You don’t intimidate me (admit it)
Why don’t you bow down, get on the ground, walk this fucking plank (yeah!)"

Take it or leave it, Kid B. I don't need your approval to love the music I enjoy.


I did not say that you needed my approval to listen to the music you enjoy. During this whole pharagraph, you were putting words in my mouth. To be perfectly honest, Say Anything used to be my favorite band, and I love ...is a real boy and IDOTG. But that whole pharagraph was shit. That was what I was proving. I do not understand why you exclaimed that a whole song was written about people like me when all I did was prove you wrong. You essentially did the same thing to me that I did to you, only you took things onto a personal level. I don't understand how I attacked you personally in the slightest degree. All I did was critisize what you said, not you. Your whole pharagraph was essentially wrong, and you know it. You did the same things with those songs as you did with me. You took an extremely small peace of them and based the rest of them on it. That pitchfork comment is an example of how low you took things in order to compose some sort of comeback against. And yes, other bands could play those songs, like you said. You also said that IDOTG rewrote and redefined a genre, and then you essentially took it back. I enjoy all three of those bands you mentioned, you were just judging me based on no merit whatsover. I was not slamming Say Anything. Don't say that I overbearingly slammed you and Say Anything because I was proving you wrong. You did the exact same thing to me, only you took it to the next level.

"What it comes down to is you're not even presenting an intelligent argument to me against Say Anything, you're just personally attacking me"
^Practice what you preach. I didn't make the slightest effort to attack you personally.

[jetblack1231]

"The icing on the cake for this album is all of the guest spots."


Thats funny. I thought the guest spots made the album relatively cheesier and harder to take seriously. It's hard for me to appriciate the band's originality when they have dozens of guests seemingly doing half the work for them (I know this is not the case, as Max writes all his own music as far as I know). Obviously, living up to an album like Is A Real Boy is difficult because of the higher expectations...but if you look at this album independently, it's not half bad. I'd give it a 77%. Not amazing, but good.

[jetblack1231]

To begin, anything and everything has been done before by someone, in some form. Even your beloved Radiohead cribbed directly from elements that influenced them like trip-hop and electronica from bands like Massive Attack or Aphex Twin and made Kid A and Amnesiac. (On a side note, I love Radiohead. But if you want to bring down one of my favorite bands, let me return the favor.) So spare me the holier-than-thou attitude. Also, most bands could play these songs. What is different is that these other bands didn't do them all on a single album, with a great lyrical storyline and the tremendous creative output that is "In Defense of a Genre."

Also, if you really read what I wrote carefully, I really don't need to explain myself. But allow me to anyways. In the beginning of the paragraph I wrote "Call it pop-punk, emo, whatever you want, but Max stretches the boundaries." Then afterwards I wrote that the songs are "still all very Say Anything. Meaning, they have the oustanding vocal hooks, catchy choruses, roots in creative pop indie rock/punk..."

Perhaps I should have written "Elements of" before I commented about each of these songs. But honestly, I thought the preface to the paragraph and the comments after could help you understand that I don't mean they are strictly whatever genre I mentioned. Most of the songs have roots in pop punk or indie rock or emo or whatever stupid label you need to get you through the night.

You're just splitting hairs when attempting to slam me for comparing elements of these songs. Of course "Baby Girl" is not an electronica song in the truest sense. Say Anything is not an electronica band. But is "Kid A" really electonica? Because I mean, I could probably say that it has elements of "alternative rock." Or maybe that Bjork or Moby is a better representation of electronica. Seriously, this is the kind of technicalities that you're throwing at me. Say Anything incorporate an industrial beat and synth parts throughout the "Baby Girl." But that clearly is just overproduction and in no way intentional.

"No Soul" is not hip hop. I mean, where's the guest appearance from Ludacris or Akon? Seriously though, you try and crush me on all these songs but they all have at least a hint of the elements I described. Do you not hear the slide guitar on "Retarded in Love?" This is a common country ballad trait. I mean, I'm sure slide guitar has been used in other ways, so please, highlight them all for me, since I have no concept of any other band but Say Anything.

Basically, what it comes down to is that you are the same overbearing, absurdly negative hipster that Bemis so eloquently writes about in "Admit It!" I mean, how is that job reviewing for Pitchfork treating you? Straight up man, what personal gain do you get from slamming a band so many people love and admire? A band that is truly passionate about writing music that they love and is intelligent AND catchy?

You're probably the kind of guy who hates Thursday for being too passionate, or Glassjaw for being too screamy and cathartic or Brand New because they're STILL too accessible. Maybe Every Time I Die! sucks because there aren't any melodic parts. And I have no problem arguing the merits of any of those bands with you all fucking day, also. What it comes down to is you're not even presenting an intelligent argument to me against Say Anything, you're just personally attacking me and then nitpicking about the slight variations between elements of a genre and a certain song being a part of that genre. Just because Say Anything is not getting blown by the vapid indie gods doesn't mean they didn't write a great record. Get over the labels and recognize good music. I do, especially if you have a valid, intelligent argument. But I just don't feel like you do.


"You spend your time sitting in circles with your friends
Pontificating to each other
Forever competing for that one moment of self-aggrandizing glory
In which you hog the intellectual spotlight
Holding dominion over the entire shallow pointless conversation
Oh, we’re not worthy

You are a faker (admit it)
You are a fraud (admit it)
Yeah, you’re living a lie (hey) living a lie (hey) you’re life is living a lie
You don’t impress me (admit it)
You don’t intimidate me (admit it)
Why don’t you bow down, get on the ground, walk this fucking plank (yeah!)"

Take it or leave it, Kid B. I don't need your approval to love the music I enjoy.




yo man, chill. he's just expressing his opinion like all of us here. he's just saying the album isnt the second comming of jesus or something (which it definitely is not). no need to explode. by the way, Thursday+Glassjaw=amazing, dude. Can't wait for United Nations!

[You Won't Know]

yo man, chill. he's just expressing his opinion like all of us here. he's just saying the album isnt the second comming of jesus or something (which it definitely is not). no need to explode. by the way, Thursday+Glassjaw=amazing, dude. Can't wait for United Nations!

Valid points. I disagree - I think it's a fantastic record. Evidently, a lot of other people feel differently. I felt like he took a very close minded stance on it by saying it wasn't quite this genre or that, when to me it clearly has elements of whatever genres I mentioned. Sorry dude for taking it too far.

Onto other things: Rumor has it, United Nations could come out sometime this year...

AND new Glassjaw.

And new Head A, which is cool if only because Daryl is in it.

If these all happen, I predict apocalypse. But seriously, I can't wait. I just want to see GJ live...

[jetblack1231]

I hear that Geoff is playing guitar in UN. I'm really excited cause all the music he's written for Thursday on guitar (when he wrote streaks in the sky, a sketch for time's arrow, etc) has been really amazing.

It feels like Daryl has been saying "new GJ album is comming out this year" every year since worship and tribute hahaha. I think it will come out this fall though..I'm really pumped.

[You Won't Know]

I hear that Geoff is playing guitar in UN. I'm really excited cause all the music he's written for Thursday on guitar (when he wrote streaks in the sky, a sketch for time's arrow, etc) has been really amazing.

It feels like Daryl has been saying "new GJ album is comming out this year" every year since worship and tribute hahaha. I think it will come out this fall though..I'm really pumped.

Well from what I heard UN was a grindcore-esque band. Which also makes sense, some of the dudes from The Number 12 are in the band also. So it will obviously be heavy as fuck. I would love to hear some more aggressive Daryl. And I'm sure Geoff will have some vocals, if not as much as Thursday.

And yes, Daryl has said that for years. But the difference is that Beck has confirmed that they are in the studio and hammering it out. I think he mentioned they were pretty much done in one of his crazy, hilarious rants. Don't quote me on that though.

I'm thinking it will be out in the fall. I just want a real headlining tour to go to and a few new songs and I would be very happy.

[jetmet]

btw baseball wasn't the first it was junior varsity

[hockeyguitar99]

btw baseball wasn't the first it was junior varsity

it was their first full length, I originally said that Is A real boy.. was their debut which it wasn't I meant label, which it got changed to, but thats why they were discussing it.

[Freeling]

Its a good album...not great but good.

props to them for taking 27 songs and making as many of them strong as they did

[The Personist]

This whole paragraph is shit. This album did not define a genre. There are very few songs on the album that sound like something that no other band could do.
No Soul has been done before. Just because it has hip hop samples does not make it something new. Even Travis Barker mixes rock with hip hop, which, not unlike No Soul, sounds like shit.
I disagree with That Is Why being reggae. It is guitar with a delay.
A "hardcore punk song" does not define People Like You at all. It is not hardcore or punk. It has a more upbeat tone to it. It is pop. Just because it is fast paced does not make it hardcore punk. New Found Glory does the same type of song essentially, and they are pop.
It will be a cold day in hell before Retarded In Love is a country song.
Baby Girl is not electronica song. Listen to The Postal Service or Kid A. Those are electronica. Just because this song has evidence of computers does not make it electronica. That is called overproduction. If that is electronica, then every song on this album is electronica.
The Church Channel is keyboard driven for the first verse and the intro.
Shiksa is not a top 40 monster. The intro will be rejected by any one closed-minded.I can't believe you said all of that.


I can't believe you took the time to say all that in rebuttal. This is my rebuttal to your rebuttal:

You don't know shit, but you sure wanna talk it.You're right when you say many other bands could do things like this; however, a given band would write an album full of "Shiksa"-esque songs or "Retarded In Love"-styled tunes. Max wrote a stylistically diverse collection of pop songs, and the result is something more diverse than anything you will find in modern pop music today. It's funny how you're all like, "Oh, anyone with a closed mind won't like the intro to Shiksa" right after you slammed mental doors with every other bullet point. I guess that's what one might refer to as self-pwnage.
Basically, my problem with all the hate is that everyone complains that all this pop-punk stuff sounds the same, and when someone breaks free of the norm and writes a solid and diverse pop album, it sucks.

Every time a new Say Anything album comes out, go buy another copy of "...Is A Real Boy." You won't be disappointed by change or progression.


@hockeyguitar99: Good review. Love the album.

[loveisdead]

His vocal style differs between beautifully sung melodies to nearly-screamed, emotionally-charged lines. I find his voice to be beautifully unique, which is hard to find in today's music industry.

Pretty good review, that paragraph was the only thing I didn't like because of the redundancy.

[Kid B]

I can't believe you took the time to say all that in rebuttal. This is my rebuttal to your rebuttal:
You don't know shit, but you sure wanna talk it.You're right when you say many other bands could do things like this; however, a given band would write an album full of "Shiksa"-esque songs or "Retarded In Love"-styled tunes. Max wrote a stylistically diverse collection of pop songs, and the result is something more diverse than anything you will find in modern pop music today. It's funny how you're all like, "Oh, anyone with a closed mind won't like the intro to Shiksa" right after you slammed mental doors with every other bullet point. I guess that's what one might refer to as self-pwnage.
Basically, my problem with all the hate is that everyone complains that all this pop-punk stuff sounds the same, and when someone breaks free of the norm and writes a solid and diverse pop album, it sucks.

Every time a new Say Anything album comes out, go buy another copy of "...Is A Real Boy." You won't be disappointed by change or progression.


@hockeyguitar99: Good review. Love the album.
Lol you're late. And uninformed.

[The Personist]

Lol you're late. And uninformed.

Late? Yes. Uninformed? Nope.

[Kid B]

Late? Yes. Uninformed? Nope.
You are uninformed about how informed you are. If you read all the posts, you would know that I said that I like IDOTG, I just thought the pharagraph was shit. I didn't say I hated those songs, so I don't know how I "self pwned" myself. I don't need to hear your lecture classifying everything that isn't say anything as generic pop punk, because that makes you even more uninformed than you originally were for replying to my post in the first place.

[The Personist]

You are uninformed about how informed you are.

About what?

PS Least I ain't petty.

[Kid B]

About what?

PS Least I ain't petty.

Read above.

PS Least I'm not resorting to attacks about personality, straying from the subject we were arguing about in the first place. :shrug:

[The Personist]

Well, it felt personal. Sorry.

And I read all that shit. I still felt like I had to have my moment of self-righteous glory/douchebaggery.

[hockeyguitar99]

His vocal style differs between beautifully sung melodies to nearly-screamed, emotionally-charged lines. I find his voice to be beautifully unique, which is hard to find in today's music industry.

Pretty good review, that paragraph was the only thing I didn't like because of the redundancy.

oops, normally I try hard to not use words over and over, I guess I missed that.

[i<3uatlst42day]

I love the album for the fact that there's so much variety in it. And the lyrics are amazing. Thats what makes them so different. With Say Anything it's what music is supposed to be, and expression of self, and that's what Max Bemis gives us with his lyrics. No part of his life is left untouched.

[Genuma]

Smarmy Indie?

[hockeyguitar99]

Smarmy Indie?

Adrian put that there, not me.

[Genuma]

Suuuuuuure.

[hockeyguitar99]

Suuuuuuure.

Do you really think I know what smarmy means?

[Genuma]

I'm sure you googled it.

[hockeyguitar99]

I'm sure you googled it.

so you think I'm resourceful?

[Genuma]

I think you're three days late. Zing!

[CellarGhosts]

Didn't "Weatherbox" used to be "The Weakerthans"?

[hockeyguitar99]

Didn't "Weatherbox" used to be "The Weakerthans"?


haha it did, then I realized that I confused the two and made a complete ass of my self.

you're welcome themchains, genuma, and liar23

[hockeyguitar99]

I think you're three days late. Zing!

I'm sorry, i didn't mean to disappoint you.

[liar23]

haha it did, then I realized that I confused the two and made a complete ass of my self.

you're welcome themchains, genuma, and liar23
hahahahahahahahahahaha...

hahahahahahahahahahaha...

hahahahahahahahahahaha. ok thats enough

[hockeyguitar99]

hahahahahahahahahahaha...

hahahahahahahahahahaha...

hahahahahahahahahahaha. ok thats enough

now where's my thank you?

[liar23]

now where's my thank you?
thank you:lolatpost:

[hockeyguitar99]

thank you:lolatpost:

:bow:

[liar23]

:bow:
No. Just no.

[hockeyguitar99]

No. Just no.

:-(

[liar23]

:-(
wait, I'm supposed to hate you!:efu:

[hockeyguitar99]

wait, I'm supposed to hate you!:efu:

Aww c'mon now.

[liar23]

Aww c'mon now.
I'm sorry that's just how I am

...Actually I'm not sorry. Bwahahahahahaha

[Genuma]

Didn't "Weatherbox" used to be "The Weakerthans"?
Haha. ilu juggalo.
I'm sorry, i didn't mean to disappoint you.
I was actually happy. Zing!

[CellarGhosts]

Haha. ilu juggalo.

I was actually happy. Zing!
I google image searched "juggalo love" and got many amusing results. but this one (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1344/1428548449_87dc3d2179.jpg?v=0) was the best.
it's like every juggalo conversation we've ever had materialized!

[Genuma]

I google image searched "juggalo love" and got many amusing results. but this one (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1344/1428548449_87dc3d2179.jpg?v=0) was the best.
it's like every juggalo conversation we've ever had materialized!
Hahahaha! New avatar right there.

[CellarGhosts]

Hahahaha! New avatar right there.
:lol:

that is amazing.

[caress me down]

just got an urge to listen to this. love this album so much