McCain proposes government prize

[Biliard]

Speaking Monday at Fresno State University in California, Sen. John McCain put forward (http://johnmccain.com/Informing/News/Speeches/Read.aspx?guid=65ee015f-0eb2-46e3-b7c5-5e9da01d08d4) what may be the most promising and important energy-policy proposal of the campaign: a $300 million prize for the development of advanced battery technology. “In the quest for alternatives to oil, our government has thrown around enough money subsidizing special interests and excusing failure,” he noted. Yet rather than have Washington pick winners and losers from within the energy industry, McCain suggested that the government should reward innovation and actual achievement. “From now on, we will encourage heroic efforts in engineering, and we will reward the greatest success.”
As outlined by McCain, the prize would be paid the first innovator to develop a battery technology that “leapfrogs” existing electric car and plug-in hybrid technology, in terms of size, capacity, power, and cost. The aim is a battery technology that capable of powering motor vehicles at 30 percent of current costs. This would be a significant technical breakthrough, greatly enhancing the ability of battery-powered vehicles to compete in the marketplace.

Is this a step in the right direction to finding an alternative energy source?

[Machu505]

We're now being bribed.

[Biliard]

It is a system that works.

[GoWaitInTheCar]

It is a system that works.

You also have a Jay Cutler icon, soo..I'm not so sure you know what works.

EDIT: I was jking btw.

[Biliard]

You also have a Jay Cutler icon, soo..I'm not so sure you know what works.

EDIT: I was jking btw.

Up to this point, Jay Cutler has not quite worked as planned. I will concede that point.

Look at the X-Prize...

[mattybobviously]

It is chump change to the US Government so no big surprise with that plan.

[HashHolly]

Is this a step in the right direction to finding an alternative energy source?

Too good to be true, i wonder if McCain or Bush have any ties to any of the companies that could possibly vie for this money.

[Biliard]

Too good to be true, i wonder if McCain or Bush have any ties to any of the companies that could possibly vie for this money.

From what I understand it would be an open competition. Anyone could enter for it.

[nwptrl]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I'm not a huge supporter of McCain, but everyone has to get it right once in a while.

[Until The Bombs]

Too good to be true, i wonder if McCain or Bush have any ties to any of the companies that could possibly vie for this money.

Would not be suprised. It would be like Halliburton all over again.

From what I understand it would be an open competition. Anyone could enter for it.

Doesn't mean anyone could win.

[Biliard]

Would not be suprised. It would be like Halliburton all over again.



Doesn't mean anyone could win.


Correct. It simply means there is no criteria on who could enter and the first person to meet the goal would win.

Yes, someone will benefit from this. I am not particularly concerned about who. My question was simply is this a step in the right direction to finding an alternative to power our cars?

[Until The Bombs]

Correct. It simply means there is no criteria on who could enter and the first person to meet the goal would win.

Yes, someone will benefit from this. I am not particularly concerned about who. My question was simply is this a step in the right direction to finding an alternative to power our cars?

It would be much more worthwhile to subsidize programs that search for cost efficient alternative fuel solutions. If someone actually came up with a solution that was worth winning the $300 million prize, they would make way more than $300 million from either selling the technology. Why not put the money up front?

[Biliard]

It would be much more worthwhile to subsidize programs that search for cost efficient alternative fuel solutions. If someone actually came up with a solution that was worth winning the $300 million prize, they would make way more than $300 million from either selling the technology. Why not put the money up front?

They would easily make far more then the $300 million from the invention, this is only to serve as an incentive. This would pay people for results, instead of funneling money into programs that have yet to yield results. Why pay for potential results?

[Until The Bombs]

They would easily make far more then the $300 million from the invention, this is only to serve as an incentive. This would pay people for results, instead of funneling money into programs that have yet to yield results. Why pay for potential results?

For the very reasons I just stated, they don't need any more incentive, they need more funds to carry out their ideas. Testing these ideas costs millions and millions of dollars, how can they do their research if they don't have proper funding? You can't just go to the bank and take a $100 million loan to research alternative fuels.

[Biliard]

For the very reasons I just stated, they don't need any more incentive, they need more funds to carry out their ideas. Testing these ideas costs millions and millions of dollars, how can they do their research if they don't have proper funding? You can't just go to the bank and take a $100 million loan to research alternative fuels.

There are plenty of grants out there to provide funding for research. It is a staple to research in general. I can see where putting money into funding research would be beneficial, IF the money were being placed into practical alternatives. Currently, the government is wasting money on ethanol research. That is not a viable alternative for a plethora of reasons.

This program would open up the research field. You would need to design the next generation of batteries to replace current generation of electric cars. While only one person may win the $300 million prize, think of how many other innovations could come from this.

[Until The Bombs]

There are plenty of grants out there to provide funding for research. It is a staple to research in general. I can see where putting money into funding research would be beneficial, IF the money were being placed into practical alternatives. Currently, the government is wasting money on ethanol research. That is not a viable alternative for a plethora of reasons.

This program would open up the research field. You would need to design the next generation of batteries to replace current generation of electric cars. While only one person may win the $300 million prize, think of how many other innovations could come from this.

But what about those programs that aren't receiving enough grants or don't have enough support coming in through other avenues? Arguable some of the most innovative ideas could go unrealized because they can't get the financial support they need, which is all my point is. I might have the best idea (which I don't), but I'm not going to win the $300 million with a drawing of my idea on a couple of napkins.

[Biliard]

But what about those programs that aren't receiving enough grants or don't have enough support coming in through other avenues? Arguable some of the most innovative ideas could go unrealized because they can't get the financial support they need, which is all my point is. I might have the best idea (which I don't), but I'm not going to win the $300 million with a drawing of my idea on a couple of napkins.

I understand your point. There is potential for a lot to go unnoticed due to a lack of funding. I am almost certain that companies would be coming out of the woodwork to offer funding for this. Just to have an opportunity to be able to corner the market, albeit temporarily, on something like this. Especially, those hated and cursed big oil companies.

Look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansari_X_Prize

Speficially, the donations section.

To ensure funding for all participants, you set up a foundation. Allow people to apply for grants and market their ideas to companies for funding. The foundation would simply serve as a medium for people to make donations and to ensure that funds are sent to those that need them.

[Until The Bombs]

I understand your point. There is potential for a lot to go unnoticed due to a lack of funding. I am almost certain that companies would be coming out of the woodwork to offer funding for this. Just to have an opportunity to be able to corner the market, albeit temporarily, on something like this. Especially, those hated and cursed big oil companies.

Why would companies not already be coming out of the wood work though? The energy issue is nothing new. So much money is to be made for establishing the new standard of energy. It's because the R&D is extremely costly, and could ultimately lead to nothing, and the current companies in control want to remain in control with the current standards for energy.



Look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansari_X_Prize

Speficially, the donations section.

To ensure funding for all participants, you set up a foundation. Allow people to apply for grants and market their ideas to companies for funding. The foundation would simply serve as a medium for people to make donations and to ensure that funds are sent to those that need them.


The program would ideally be set up like this, but there is no mention of funding the in the article posted in the initial post, which again, is my major problem with it.

[Biliard]

[quote=Biliard;11476111]I understand your point. There is potential for a lot to go unnoticed due to a lack of funding. I am almost certain that companies would be coming out of the woodwork to offer funding for this. Just to have an opportunity to be able to corner the market, albeit temporarily, on something like this. Especially, those hated and cursed big oil companies.[quote]

Why would companies not already be coming out of the wood work though? The energy issue is nothing new. So much money is to be made for establishing the new standard of energy. It's because the R&D is extremely costly, and could ultimately lead to nothing, and the current companies in control want to remain in control with the current standards for energy.




The program would ideally be set up like this, but there is no mention of funding the in the article posted in the initial post, which again, is my major problem with it.

I did not post his entire speech in here. If that was the root of confusion, I apologize. I believe there is a link to it, if you feel so inclined to investigate further, where it says McCain's name. At this point it is only a proposotion, nothing has come from it. I would imagine something would be set up along the lines of the X-Prize, since it is the most recent example of this working.

Companies are content hedging their bets. They are buying stock in solar and wind power, because that is what everyone assumes will save us.

[Until The Bombs]

I did not post his entire speech in here. If that was the root of confusion, I apologize. I believe there is a link to it, if you feel so inclined to investigate further, where it says McCain's name. At this point it is only a proposotion, nothing has come from it. I would imagine something would be set up along the lines of the X-Prize, since it is the most recent example of this working.

Companies are content hedging their bets. They are buying stock in solar and wind power, because that is what everyone assumes will save us.

At least as of this point, there has been no indication of any plan to provide funding.

Obama's reponse to McCain's plan:


"When John F. Kennedy decided that we were going to put a man on the moon, he didn't put a bounty out for some rocket scientist to win -- he put the full resources of the United States government behind the project and called on the ingenuity and innovation of the American people -- not just in the private sector but also in the public sector."


Source:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/24/campaign.wrap/index.html

[Biliard]

At least as of this point, there has been no indication of any plan to provide funding.

Obama's reponse to McCain's plan:



Source:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/24/campaign.wrap/index.html

He still would need to persuade the Congress to break away from subsidies.

As I said earlier, I would support government funding, IF they would put money into practical avenues. Corn ethenol is not the answer.

[Jason Tate]

The amount of profit to be made if someone created this would far surpass 300 million. Money has never been the incentive as to why this technology was not created -- the money would have always been there.

It's a dog and pony show. It sounds good but means nothing. Public relations, nothing less.

[Dan Hollister]

Not true.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Intentions do out outweigh results. If the result of an action is good, then it is good, regardless of whether or not the person doing the action intended for that outcome. If McCain's contest here results in innovation, then it will no longer matter whether he announced it for PR purposes or not. It will have been positive.

Prizes like this have been very successful in the past. Duh, the money is small in comparison to the product. So was the X Prize. Scaled Composites, by the way, spent twice as much money to win the X Prize as the prize itself was even worth. The point of creating such a prize is to create competition.

Think of it like a sport. If a bunch of guys just start throwing a ball around and have no idea what they're doing it, it's not as fun, and it certainly isn't very competitive. You need to create rules, boundaries, and a way to win in order to really ignite the flame of competition in people. That is exactly what these prizes do.

Also, JFK may have put the resources of the US into work to get a man on the moon, but then again, he was already President at the time, with a high approval rating and an abundance of resources.

And lastly, let us not forget that the private sector is where the innovation happens. Yes, it may be politicians and democratic organizations and such that always call for such innovation, but more often than not, it is the private sector that ends up truly building solutions that work and end up in the hands of the people. Last I checked, the government wasn't funding Tesla, nor did Al Gore start Current_TV while working in the White House, nor is Scaled Composites in any way working with the public sector.

[Biliard]

Not true.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Intentions do out outweigh results. If the result of an action is good, then it is good, regardless of whether or not the person doing the action intended for that outcome. If McCain's contest here results in innovation, then it will no longer matter whether he announced it for PR purposes or not. It will have been positive.

Prizes like this have been very successful in the past. Duh, the money is small in comparison to the product. So was the X Prize. Scaled Composites, by the way, spent twice as much money to win the X Prize as the prize itself was even worth. The point of creating such a prize is to create competition.

Think of it like a sport. If a bunch of guys just start throwing a ball around and have no idea what they're doing it, it's not as fun, and it certainly isn't very competitive. You need to create rules, boundaries, and a way to win in order to really ignite the flame of competition in people. That is exactly what these prizes do.

Also, JFK may have put the resources of the US into work to get a man on the moon, but then again, he was already President at the time, with a high approval rating and an abundance of resources.

And lastly, let us not forget that the private sector is where the innovation happens. Yes, it may be politicians and democratic organizations and such that always call for such innovation, but more often than not, it is the private sector that ends up truly building solutions that work and end up in the hands of the people. Last I checked, the government wasn't funding Tesla, nor did Al Gore start Current_TV while working in the White House, nor is Scaled Composites in any way working with the public sector.

Very well said.