This is ironic...

[hXc_pwnage]

Dear MoveOn member,
Several weeks ago, Tom Cole, a Republican Congressman in Oklahoma spoke to supporters about the upcoming election. "If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election," he told them.1 Later, he said that a vote against Bush was like a vote for Adolf Hitler.

These hateful and outrageous remarks –- which neither the RNC nor the Bush/Cheney campaign will repudiate -- are representative of the negative campaign being rolled out against John Kerry. Bush is now airing the first negative ads of the season, which according to nonpartisan monitors 2 seriously misled viewers about Kerry's record.

In response, Senator Kerry is taking the high road. He's asked President Bush to engage in a series of monthly debates on the country's future -- debates on the real substance of the issues that face us. It's a simple proposal that could elevate the campaign and truly educate the country about the positions and records of each candidate. But President Bush's campaign brushed off the suggestion with a snide remark. 3

Today, we're asking President Bush to stand up and face a real debate. You can join our petition asking President Bush to debate Kerry on the future of our country at:
http://www.moveonpac.org/debate/?id=2480-3724464-QPTNkol8Coj_ZrKM_tbnPQ

We'll send your comment on to the Bush/Cheney campaign and highlight this issue in the media.

The negative tenor of the campaign so far even has Republicans worried. Senator John McCain reprimanded the President for the negative campaign, saying, "Already, I'm hearing from people here that are saying, 'Look, I'm not even going to vote if this is the way the campaign's going to be conducted.'"4

Here's a summary of some of the attacks that have unfolded just in the first two weeks.

* In the first negative ad of the general election, President Bush claimed that Kerry would raise taxes by $900 billion. The figure turned out to be entirely made up -- John Kerry promised to lower taxes on working families, not raise them. 5

* President Bush personally accused Kerry of attempting to "gut" the intelligence budget in a "deeply irresponsible" move: Yet, as independent media monitor factcheck.org pointed out, "the proposal Bush criticized would have amounted to a reduction of roughly 1%. And senior congressional Republicans supported a cut two-thirds as large at the time." 6

* Vice President Cheney told reporters that he believed Kerry does not have "an impressive record for someone who aspires to be commander in chief in this time of testing for our country." 7

By any standard, the campaign is already one of the most negative in political history. But by engaging in a forward-looking debate, President Bush could turn things around. It's much easier to make misleading claims in TV ads than to someone's face, and both Kerry and Bush would have hours -- not seconds -- to make their case to the public.

Join us in asking President Bush to take the high road now at:
http://www.moveonpac.org/debate/?id=2480-3724464-QPTNkol8Coj_ZrKM_tbnPQ

Sincerely,
--Adam, Carrie, Eli, James, Joan, Laura, Wes, and Zack
The MoveOn PAC Team
March 23rd, 2004

Footnotes:

1. "Inside Politics," Washington Times, 3/4/04
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040304-111104-3096r.htm

2. "Bush Strains Facts Re: Kerry's Plan To Cut Intelligence Funding in '90's," FactCheck.org, 3/15/04
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=153

3. "Kerry Suggests Monthly Debates With President; Bush Campaign Rejects the Idea," Washington Post, 3/13/04
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56468-2004Mar13.html

4. "McCain, Lieberman on 'Fox News Sunday'," Foxnews.com, 3/21/04
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114763,00.html

5. "George Bush's Credibility Problem: The Truth Behind His New Attack Ad," JohnKerry.com, 3/12/04
http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/archives/001352.html#001352

6. See 2, above.

7. "Cheney calls Kerry weak on defense," CNN.com, 3/18/04
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/17/cheney.reut/


PAID FOR BY MoveOn PAC
P.O. Box 9218, Berkeley, CA 94709

Yes, it is a move on e-mail. But they are based on facts. I like how voteing for Kerry is being compared to voteing for Hitler...where's the bashing now? Why don't we bash Cole now? I mean come on...when an ad made by someone that submitted it to BushIn30Seconds.com got majorly bashed. Now a guy is saying voteing for Kerry is voteing for Bush. Asshole.

I also like how Bush makes up MORE lies.

[yeat182]

this is coming from the same organization that posted a commercial depicting Bush as Hitler? that is irony.

[Justin_stacy]

Dear MoveOn member,
Several weeks ago, Tom Cole, a Republican Congressman in Oklahoma spoke to supporters about the upcoming election. "If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election," he told them.1 Later, he said that a vote against Bush was like a vote for Adolf Hitler.


If your going to quote him at least get the quote right....

“if George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election” since enemies of the United States would see it as a sign of weakness.

“What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would’ve lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was” (weakening), Cole said, according to a spokeswoman.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001871859_cdig05.html

[hXc_pwnage]

this is coming from the same organization that posted a commercial depicting Bush as Hitler? that is irony.
They didn't make the commercial...a person seperate from them made it and submitted it. I know many people bashed them for it...but I guess depicting a vote for Kerry as a vote for Hitler isn't bad, though...

[hXc_pwnage]

If your going to quote him at least get the quote right....

“if George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election” since enemies of the United States would see it as a sign of weakness.

“What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would’ve lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was” (weakening), Cole said, according to a spokeswoman.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001871859_cdig05.html
"What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would've lost the election in 1944? He would not have thought American resolve was strengthening. What would the confederacy have thought if Lincoln would have lost the election of 1860?"

"If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election, it's that simple. It will be interpreted that way by enemies of the United States around the world."

Do you not see the relationship?

[yeat182]

They didn't make the commercial...a person seperate from them made it and submitted it. I know many people bashed them for it...but I guess depicting a vote for Kerry as a vote for Hitler isn't bad, though...

no, you're right, they didn't make the commercial, but they posted it, they supported the contest and what not. still, he wasn't saying that a vote for kerry is a vote for hitler.

[hXc_pwnage]

He said that the Osama would win because he would think we were lesser. He said that if Roosevelt lost the election it would have been voting for Hitler because he would have not thought that the "American resolve was strengthening."

[Justin_stacy]

Do you not see the relationship?
Relationship to what?

[open mind]

conservative hypocrites,raise hell when bush is compared to hitler then turn around and say this........

[Justin_stacy]

conservative hypocrites,raise hell when bush is compared to hitler then turn around and say this........

but Cole didn't compare kerry the person to hitler, unlike what Moveon.org promoted...

[open mind]

he said not voting for bush is like voting for bin laden or hitler in so many words,that's so much better isn't it?

[boysdontcry]

Dear MoveOn member,
Several weeks ago, Tom Cole, a Republican Congressman in Oklahoma spoke to supporters about the upcoming election. "If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election"
i believe the bin laden family actually helped the bush family with their oil buisness in the beginning and both families were stong supporters of each other for years.

[hXc_pwnage]

i believe the bin laden family actually helped the bush family with their oil buisness in the beginning and both families were stong supporters of each other for years.
That is true.

[yeat182]

the bin Laden family aren't terrorists though, they are normal buisnessmen.

[yeat182]

also, he in no way compared kerry to hitler.

[Justin_stacy]

he said not voting for bush is like voting for bin laden or hitler in so many words,that's so much better isn't it?

Ignoring the Osama bit, fore, although i don't think that if Kerry wins Osama atomatically wins.....you know damn well that Kerry would be the first choice of any terrorist in the middle east, if the election is between Bush and Kerry......Now if we add Nadar into the mix, the out come might be different...

As for the hitler bit, he did not say that a vote for Kerry was a vote for hitler, what he did was use an analogy that tried to point out what a "terrorist" would see/think if in our up coming elections, in a time of war, we voted out a president who has chosen to confront terror, with one who has had a less confrontational view on terror.....And I think that’s a justifiable comment....

[hXc_pwnage]

I'd say they'd prefer Bush because he's a total nutbag.

:)

[Justin_stacy]

I'd say they'd prefer Bush because he's a total nutbag.

:)

well lets all say uneducated stuff....

I think he would prefer Kerry because he has the back bone of a worm....

[Trainsaw]

Using the whole a vote for Kerry is a vote for Osama is bull shit. Its just another way of the republicans using terrorism as their only platform and trying to make america fear the rest of the world more.

[xnotedgex]

but Cole didn't compare kerry the person to hitler, unlike what Moveon.org promoted...

god...idiots...stop saying moveon promoted it!!! there were over 1,500 submissions to the contest...they've repeatedly stated they did not agree with the content of the commercial...you'll believe bush but not ordinary citizens? foolish people

[xnotedgex]

As for the hitler bit, he did not say that a vote for Kerry was a vote for hitler, what he did was use an analogy that tried to point out what a "terrorist" would see/think if in our up coming elections, in a time of war, we voted out a president who has chosen to confront terror, with one who has had a less confrontational view on terror.....And I think that’s a justifiable comment....

yes, i missed it...where exactly did he speak for the terrorists?

[xnotedgex]

Foolish? Answer this. If i submitted an ad to the site that was a supporting Bush do you think it would have been displayed?

If not that shows they knew the content that was coming on to there site.

im sure it would have been...its clear there were no filters if 1,500 submissions made it through....you think they were impressed by 1,500 user-made commercials?

[Justin_stacy]

god...idiots...stop saying moveon promoted it!!! there were over 1,500 submissions to the contest...they've repeatedly stated they did not agree with the content of the commercial...you'll believe bush but not ordinary citizens? foolish people

god...idiot....they posted it on their site so that others could see it, thats promotion, whether or not they agree with the content (which we both know they did)....and since when is an extreme left special interest group ordinary citizens? ...

[Justin_stacy]

yes, i missed it...where exactly did he speak for the terrorists?


I understand that analogies are hard for some people so here.. Replace where he said hitler with osama, and FDR with bush....and you will see the point he was trying to make.....Now I’m not saying he’s right, but it is a valid point…..

"What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would’ve lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was” (weakened)

[xnotedgex]

god...idiot....they posted it on their site so that others could see it, thats promotion, whether or not they agree with the content (which we both know they did)....and since when is an extreme left special interest group ordinary citizens? ...

special interest group??? exactly what special interest do they serve?? extreme left??? they're extreme left because they want a different president, one who doesn't lie to the public? or is it because they disagree with your views and they give evidence to back up their assertions in every single instance

would you say that jason tate is promoting this message because he allows it on his website?

[xnotedgex]

I understand that analogies are hard for some people so here.. Replace where he said hitler with osama, and FDR with bush....and you will see the point he was trying to make.....Now I’m not saying he’s right, but it is a valid point…..

"What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would’ve lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was” (weakened)

oh, when he was covering his tracks....ok

[xnotedgex]

No, I do think as long as is bashed Bush it was allowed.

well, whatever, you have you opinion which has absolutely no basis and i have mine which is based on the fact that the ad was pulled prior to widespread media attention

[Justin_stacy]

would you say that jason tate is promoting this message because he allows it on his website?


A special interest web page and a message board are different and you know it.... Also you say that these commercial weren't reviewed prior to there posting...but how then did moveon.org know the content of the commercials met decency standards, I mean how did they know that a commercial didn't have a murder in it or a raping or strong language?

[xnotedgex]

A special interest web page and a message board are different and you know it.... Also you say that these commercial weren't reviewed prior to there posting...but how then did moveon.org know the content of the commercials met decency standards, I mean how did they know that a commercial didn't have a murder in it or a raping or strong language?

can you please link me to the internet decency laws?

and are you aware of the idea of an editorial? would you say newspapers promote the ideas put forth in every editorial because they print them?

are you aware of what a special interest is?

[xnotedgex]

You are an idiot man. Even the guy from moveon said the ad's "slipped" through there screening process!!!!!!!!

http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200401/POL20040106b.shtml

"They were voted down by our members and the public, who reviewed the ads and submitted nearly 3 million critiques in the process of choosing the 15 finalist entries," Boyd said, adding that he agrees that "the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret[s] that they slipped through our screening process."


Boyd promised "in the future, if we publish or broadcast raw material, we will create a more effective filtering system."

Yes, yes, yes.....your claims are based on fact.

they slipped through the screening process? what does this mean? they didnt see the ad prior to it being posted...makes sense doesnt it

[Justin_stacy]

special interest group?

Main Entry: special interest
Function: noun
: a person or group seeking to influence legislative or government policy to further often narrowly defined interests; especially : LOBBY

extreme left???

what would you call a group that follows in the teaching of people like sorro?

[xnotedgex]

lol lol lol lol if they screen them that means they some how look at them and filter them

yes boy, a screening process is where you preview the presentation and it does not meet your standards, it is filtered out...lol lol lol...that's funny isnt it

[Justin_stacy]

can you please link me to the internet decency laws?


there are no laws against it, but promoting such things wouldn't look good in the eye of a free thinking public....

[xnotedgex]

Main Entry: special interest
Function: noun
: a person or group seeking to influence legislative or government policy to further often narrowly defined interests; especially : LOBBY



what would you call a group that follows in the teaching of people like sorro?

what narrowly defined interests is moveon.org trying to serve? those of liberals?

and i dont know who sorro is so can you give me some more info here

[xnotedgex]

there are no laws against it, but promoting such things wouldn't look good in the eye of a free thinking public....

this ad obviously didnt look good in the eye of a free thinking public did it? which would only serve to promote the idea that it was not viewed prior to its posting

[xnotedgex]

Give me a brake man..... Just admit that Moveon looked at the ads before they aired. Now if you believe that they accidentaly let them slip through that's fair enough, but dont act like Moveon had no idea these ads were on there site.

you honestly believe that they knew the concept of all 1,500 ads that were posted?

[yeat182]

special interest group??? exactly what special interest do they serve?? extreme left??? they're extreme left because they want a different president, one who doesn't lie to the public? or is it because they disagree with your views and they give evidence to back up their assertions in every single instance

would you say that jason tate is promoting this message because he allows it on his website?


Kerry's lied to the public, so why do they support him?

and i would say that Jason Tate promotes that which he posts on his website, the messages on this board are independent of him, where as teh contest was not independent of Moveon.org.

[xnotedgex]

its not really that important i guess....i think they did not see the ad prior to its posting, you do....there's no conclusive evidence either way so there's no point debating it

[xnotedgex]

Kerry's lied to the public, so why do they support him?

and i would say that Jason Tate promotes that which he posts on his website, the messages on this board are independent of him, where as teh contest was not independent of Moveon.org.

lesser of 2 evils in their opinion

the submissions to the contest were independent of moveon.org...just like the submissions to this message board are independent of the message board...but im tired of talking about it

[Justin_stacy]

this ad obviously didnt look good in the eye of a free thinking public did it? which would only serve to promote the idea that it was not viewed prior to its posting

If you want to play games that fine.... But don't do it here.....You said that there was too many commercials for moveon.org to review them all. Then I said that they would have had to review them all to make sure that there content was of a decent standard. Then you asked if there was a law on the internet for decency standards. And I said no, but that any free thinking individual would see an obscene commercial as a strike against moveon's validity......

And I used the term "free thinkers" because there are always those people that are so mentally blind that they will believe any thing they see or hear....

[Justin_stacy]

and i dont know who sorro is so can you give me some more info here

what do you want a biography or a list of issues and quotes?

[Justin_stacy]

oh, when he was covering his tracks....ok

well i'm at a loss for how you figure that, but oh well...

[xnotedgex]

well i'm at a loss for how you figure that, but oh well...

its was a secondary qoute....when questioned about his original qoute, this was his clarification/cover up...however you want to see it

[xnotedgex]

what do you want a biography or a list of issues and quotes?

anything...ive never heard of sorro....would you by chance be referring to soros?

[Justin_stacy]

its was a secondary qoute....when questioned about his original qoute, this was his clarification/cover up...however you want to see it

nope actually that was a striaght speech....with both lining being in it.....so again i'm at a loss for how you figure your original statement...

[Justin_stacy]

anything...ive never heard of sorro....would you by chance be referring to soros?
I see you wanted to be a smart ass ;) ....yes I ment soro and I didn't realize I misspelled that scum’s name earlier...

[BrandNew20]

The whole comparing anybody to Hitler analogy is laughable. Bush is in no way Hitler and neither is Kerry. That being said, I think that terrorists would actually rather see Bush in office because under Bush currently a significant portion of the world's population(especially Europeans who are generally our allies) are against us, making it easier for them to operate.

[yeat182]

The whole comparing anybody to Hitler analogy is laughable. Bush is in no way Hitler and neither is Kerry. That being said, I think that terrorists would actually rather see Bush in office because under Bush currently a significant portion of the world's population(especially Europeans who are generally our allies) are against us, making it easier for them to operate.


you're right, it may make it easier for them to operate in foreign countries, but i believe bush makes it much more difficult than kerry would, for them to operate in america.

[xnotedgex]

nope actually that was a striaght speech....with both lining being in it.....so again i'm at a loss for how you figure your original statement...

the article you posted, which i can't seem to find now, mentioned that he had made the statement earlier and then when asked about it later, he gave the fdr, hitler example...that would mean he was clarifying/covering up his earlier statement about a vote for kerry is a vote for bin laden

[xnotedgex]

It's obvious someone reviewed the ads prior to posting. That's what the screening process was for.

please show me the obvious evidence that they viewed the ad prior to its posting...ive retracted my attempts at a defintive viewpoint...i think it's your turn

[xnotedgex]

I see you wanted to be a smart ass ;) ....yes I ment soro and I didn't realize I misspelled that scum’s name earlier...

he's scum because his viewpoints differ from yours and he utilizes his wealth to make his voice heard? i don't understand what is scummy about that...sure he's obnoxious but i don't think he's scum....and saying that moveon.org "follows his teachings"...come on now, you know thats a complete fabrication...im sure they agree with him on a number of things but to say they "follow" him...give me a break

[xnotedgex]

you're right, it may make it easier for them to operate in foreign countries, but i believe bush makes it much more difficult than kerry would, for them to operate in america.

very true...the question is which is more important security or civil rights and whether there are better ways than the patriot act to protect our homeland...and obviously opinions strongly differ on this

[Justin_stacy]

he's scum because his viewpoints differ from yours and he utilizes his wealth to make his voice heard? i don't understand what is scummy about that...


Ya I mean bankrupting Asian countries, destroying the British pound, manipulating the Russian economy, and spread anti-Semitism (made all the worse for the fact he’s Jewish) are hardly "bad" things or scum worthy...but your right he’s scum because his views differ from mine, not for the fact that he made his living while destroying the lives and savings of millions of other, normally in countries that are developing or going through economic reform, but his past activities don't matter now do they, because of how he's using his money...

[Justin_stacy]

the article you posted, which i can't seem to find now, mentioned that he had made the statement earlier and then when asked about it later, he gave the fdr, hitler example...that would mean he was clarifying/covering up his earlier statement about a vote for kerry is a vote for bin laden


Here’s the article I posted, it was on the first page of this thread, and it says nothing of your accusations nor does anyother site which has covered this story, even the ones that look unfavorable on Coles speach
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001871859_cdig05.html

[xnotedgex]

Here’s the article I posted, it was on the first page of this thread, and it says nothing of your accusations nor does anyother site which has covered this story, even the ones that look unfavorable on Coles speach
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001871859_cdig05.html

i misinterpreted what the article said..for some reason i though the spokeswoman was speaking for cole after the speech...my mistake

[xnotedgex]

Ya I mean bankrupting Asian countries, destroying the British pound, manipulating the Russian economy, and spread anti-Semitism (made all the worse for the fact he’s Jewish) are hardly "bad" things or scum worthy...but your right he’s scum because his views differ from mine, not for the fact that he made his living while destroying the lives and savings of millions of other, normally in countries that are developing or going through economic reform, but his past activities don't matter now do they, because of how he's using his money...

yes...blame the crony capitalism in asia in the 90's on soros...blaim soros for malaysia's prime minister specualting the country's money as if it were his own and then when it fails and soros profits, of course its soros' fault

soros' quantum fund makes money by anticipating economic shifts around the world. in 1992 soros thought the british pound would lose value because of political and economic pressures. he borrowed billions of pounds and converted them to german marks.
when the pound collapsed sept. 16, 1992, soros repaid the pounds at the lower rate and pocketed the difference. his profit: $1 billion. does this make him responsible for the collapse of the pound? such a claim is a ludicrous, that one man collapse the currency of a nation. Give me a break.

[Justin_stacy]

soros' quantum fund makes money by anticipating economic shifts around the world. in 1992 soros thought the british pound would lose value because of political and economic pressures. he borrowed billions of pounds and converted them to german marks.
when the pound collapsed sept. 16, 1992, soros repaid the pounds at the lower rate and pocketed the difference. his profit: $1 billion. does this make him responsible for the collapse of the pound? .

I never said what he did was illegal, anywhere, but that doesn't mean it was right either, does it? Say a Republican earned his fortune in this way and manner with similar consequences, what would your feelings towards him be? Hell you've criticized Bush's family fortune because there are small ties to the Bin Laden family, which is a peaceful family, but yet you defend far worse actions here.....

And yes he did not personal cause the collapse of the pound, but his actions following the collapse in the 92' crisis pulled the final nail out of the floor of the Bank Of England, and completely leveled the purchasing power of the pound in one day......

[Justin_stacy]

i misinterpreted what the article said..for some reason i though the spokeswoman was speaking for cole after the speech...my mistake

no harm, the wording does kind of make it sound like that, but from what i've read thats because there was no tape recording of the speach...

[xnotedgex]

I never said what he did was illegal, anywhere, but that doesn't mean it was right either, does it? Say a Republican earned his fortune in this way and manner with similar consequences, what would your feelings towards him be? Hell you've criticized Bush's family fortune because there are small ties to the Bin Laden family, which is a peaceful family, but yet you defend far worse actions here.....

And yes he did not personal cause the collapse of the pound, but his actions following the collapse in the 92' crisis pulled the final nail out of the floor of the Bank Of England, and completely leveled the purchasing power of the pound in one day......

i think what he does is right...he keeps countries in line...if you try to overvalue your currency for political or economic gain, he exposes you, at his profit of course which can be determined to be unethical but he uses half of his earnings for the causes which he feels are just...i don't think he can be faulted for this

I don't recall ever criticizing the Bush family for their economic dealings..please remind me

[Justin_stacy]

at his profit of course which can be determined to be unethical but he uses half of his earnings for the causes which he feels are just...i don't think he can be faulted for this


i wonder if you would really believe those justifications for his actions if you didn't agree with him socially, but oh well were not likely to agree here......But i do have one question, Do you really think its good to have an unelected man, without any authorization, playing econ-god, to beniffet himself?

and "half of his earnings" is an exageration, and i think you know that..it is no where near 3.5 billion dollar (or half of his known wealth)....

[Justin_stacy]

I don't recall ever criticizing the Bush family for their economic dealings..please remind me
damn! ya your right the post i was looking at was by Bled....

[Justin_stacy]

be unethical but he uses half of his earnings for the causes which he feels are just...i don't think he can be faulted for this



so now were allowed to use unethical, and what some might say destructive means, to gain wealth and power, so long as we use half of it for what we feel are good causes.....and you can't see fault with that? Not to mention the groups he funds, don't help those that were directly hurt by his actions....

[xnotedgex]

so now were allowed to use unethical, and what some might say destructive means, to gain wealth and power, so long as we use half of it for what we feel are good causes.....and you can't see fault with that? Not to mention the groups he funds, don't help those that were directly hurt by his actions....

soros isnt the destructive figure here....he capitalizes off of the destruction that occurs...which is why his actions are unethical in my opinion...im not defending the man but he has his own guidelines by which he operates his life...he does a lot to further his goals which is more than can be said for most people...and the 50% figure i used doest refer to his estimated wealth...i dont remember what it referred to actually...perhaps his capital per year....i dont recall

[xnotedgex]

Boyd said, adding that he agrees that "the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret[s] that they slipped through our screening process."

How else are they screening the commericials?

take a second to ponder the multiple meanings of "slipped through"...perhaps then you'll understand why there is no definitive answer

[SwingingMics]

Kerry is definitely not taking the high road, that cannot be said.

[Justin_stacy]

soros isnt the destructive figure here....

Pulling a billion pounds from an already failing currency is "destructive," at least to the common man. It destroys purchasing power (raising costs), raises interest rates, limits bank loans, depletes saving accounts etc....So you can say what he did was legal and that the currency blame can't be put on him alone.......but to say his actions weren't destructive, to the average citizen, is just naive, he hurt alot of people and for what? Another billion dollars fore which he'll give a few million to social activist groups that don’t help the people he has purposely hurt.....And you think this is a good man?

[Justin_stacy]

...he does a lot to further his goals which is more than can be said for most people...

most people are smart enough to see that if your hurting people and destroying their livelyhood to further your own goal(s), your not really accomplishing anything......

[xnotedgex]

And you think this is a good man?

yes, put words in my mouth...well done

truth of the matter is, britain entered the pound into the ERM at a high interest rate, copying germany, a country they had been watching an imitating for years prior to their joining the ERM...these high interest rates were damaging and soros took it upon himself to correct that at his own profit....unethical but in the long run, allowed interest rates to naturally find their place which was benificiary to the economy

[xnotedgex]

most people are smart enough to see that if your hurting people and destroying their livelyhood to further your own goal(s), your not really accomplishing anything......

most people, apparently, aren't smart enough to see soros doesn't specualate with his own projects in mind...they benefit from the fact he has assumed the role of economy taskmaster...unethical but not in the way you are claiming

[Justin_stacy]

most people, apparently, aren't smart enough to see soros doesn't specualate with his own projects in mind...they benefit from the fact he has assumed the role of economy taskmaster...unethical but not in the way you are claiming

I think alot of the people would disagree with you assessment of soro's motives and their benefits.....and to the contrary of your statement I don't think that’s makes them dumb...

[Justin_stacy]

yes, put words in my mouth...well done

Ya, Much like you've done to me in other threads....or do you have no problem with it so long as your not on the receiving end?



As for this issue I think the conclusion is, that no matter how mischievous the action you will defend Soro because of his other actions you see as positive. And no matter how positive the action I will criticize Soro because of his other actions I see as evil...and I think that’s the way it will stand....

[xnotedgex]

Ya, Much like you've done to me in other threads....or do you have no problem with it so long as your not on the receiving end?



As for this issue I think the conclusion is, that no matter how mischievous the action you will defend Soro because of his other actions you see as positive. And no matter how positive the action I will criticize Soro because of his other actions I see as evil...and I think that’s the way it will stand....

what did you read that led you to believe i support soros? a classified intelligence report from the cia? are you tryin to pull a bush on us?

[xnotedgex]

I think alot of the people would disagree with you assessment of soro's motives and their benefits.....and to the contrary of your statement I don't think that’s makes them dumb...

well those people wouldn't have any evidence to support their assessment except to say "soros lies about what his goals really are"...and we both know how effective that is

[Justin_stacy]

what did you read that led you to believe i support soros?

I didn't use the term support, did i? no matter how mischievous the action you will defend Soro because of his other actions you see as positive....

[Justin_stacy]

well those people wouldn't have any evidence to support their assessment except to say "soros lies about what his goals really are"...and we both know how effective that is

But yet you've used that same argument when defending his actions...

Aren’t smart enough to see soros doesn't speculate with his own projects in mind....how is that any different from them using it?....

[xnotedgex]

I didn't use the term support, did i? no matter how mischievous the action you will defend Soro because of his other actions you see as positive....

ok, sorry i used the gist of your statement rather than qoute you word for word...what did you read that expressed by belief that any of his actions are positive?

[xnotedgex]

But yet you've used that same argument when defending his actions...

Aren’t smart enough to see soros doesn't speculate with his own projects in mind....how is that any different from them using it?....

i dont understand this post at all could you be a little more clear

[Justin_stacy]

...what did you read that expressed by belief that any of his actions are positive?

by you?

but he uses half of his earnings for the causes which he feels are just...i don't think he can be faulted for this

[Justin_stacy]

i dont understand this post at all could you be a little more clear

well those people wouldn't have any evidence to support their assessment except to say "soros lies about what his goals really are"...and we both know how effective that is

You say them using this type of argument wouldn't be effective because they have no evidence to back it up,…....But yet you've used the same argument, only reversed, with no evidence. So how is it anymore beleiveable when you use it?

[xnotedgex]

well those people wouldn't have any evidence to support their assessment except to say "soros lies about what his goals really are"...and we both know how effective that is

You say them using this type of argument wouldn't be effective because they have no evidence to back it up,…....But yet you've used the same argument, only reversed, with no evidence. So how is it anymore beleiveable when you use it?

my evidence is the words that come out of soros' mouth

[xnotedgex]

by you?

ok, where was the expression of positivity in that statement?

[Justin_stacy]

my evidence is the words that come out of soros' mouth
how am i supposed to know your posting soros words or your own?

[Justin_stacy]

ok, where was the expression of positivity in that statement?

he uses half of his earnings for the causes which he feels are just...i don't think he can be faulted for this

[xnotedgex]

he uses half of his earnings for the causes which he feels are just...i don't think he can be faulted for this

there is not a single positive expression in that statement