700

[Sinister Rouge]

700 troops have now died in the uneeded war in Iraq....it was 600, 2 weeks ago.

[BrandNew20]

700 troops have now died in the uneeded war in Iraq....it was 600, 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, it sucks...I'm sure the number won't continue to rise at such a rapid rate, but thats little consolation...

[Mercy Medical]

The sad and scary thing is I have a friend over there right now and I just want him to come home as soon as possible. :(

[BrandNew20]

The sad and scary thing is I have a friend over there right now and I just want him to come home as soon as possible. :(

I'm sorry to hear that, war sucks, plain and simple...

[yeat182]

while it sucks that those men and women have died, 700 is not an outrageous number by any means.

[xnotedgex]

while it sucks that those men and women have died, 700 is not an outrageous number by any means.

you have no fucking compassion...everything you say is framed to support your politcal stance...its sickening

[yeat182]

you have no fucking compassion...everything you say is framed to support your politcal stance...its sickening

in the 3 weeks after Iwo Jima was considered captured and under US control, we lost 6000 men. 700 over the course of a year is not comperable. like i said, it sucks that they've died, but you have to put it in perspective.

[Heartcore]

Roughly 75% of the coalition soldiers who have died have been killed since President Bush flew in to make his "victory" speech.

[yeat182]

percentages like that are misleading. the percentage is high, but the total number killed is low. that is like saying if 4 people died in the war, one died prior to bush claiming victory, and 3 died after. 75% sounds like a lot, but not in relation to the actual numbers.

also, claiming victory has nothing to do with people being killed. the fact that people have died since then doesn't mean we have lost the war or are losing it, it has no bearing on the "victory" unless we allow the deaths to make us pull out early.

[Heartcore]

percentages like that are misleading. the percentage is high, but the total number killed is low. that is like saying if 4 people died in the war, one died prior to bush claiming victory, and 3 died after. 75% sounds like a lot, but not in relation to the actual numbers.

also, claiming victory has nothing to do with people being killed. the fact that people have died since then doesn't mean we have lost the war or are losing it, it has no bearing on the "victory" unless we allow the deaths to make us pull out early.

The fact of the matter is that victory is not a word that can ever be associated with this war in Iraq. The Iraqi people have never known true democracy and for our country to believe we can set a democratic society amidst that much turmoil and hatred for western culture is ridiculous.

[yeat182]

The fact of the matter is that victory is not a word that can ever be associated with this war in Iraq. The Iraqi people have never known true democracy and for our country to believe we can set a democratic society amidst that much turmoil and hatred for western culture is ridiculous.

they said the exact same thing about Japan...that worked out pretty well.

[hXc_pwnage]

while it sucks that those men and women have died, 700 is not an outrageous number by any means.
Those 700 dead are 700 too many.

[cantnokdahustle]

its when you turn every death into a statistic that you are either an asshole, or a sadistic fuck.

[Heartcore]

they said the exact same thing about Japan...that worked out pretty well.

It took the use of nuclear weapons to pursuade Japan.

[cantnokdahustle]

they said the exact same thing about Japan...that worked out pretty well.

not for japan.

[UndefinedBoy]

its when you turn every death into a statistic that you are either an asshole, or a sadistic fuck.

amen to that!

[yeat182]

It took the use of nuclear weapons to pursuade Japan.

actually, it didn't but i don't want to get into a whole debate on why the japanese surrendered. the point is they we as different from american democracy as muslim extremist are (who constitute the minority, as opposed to japan) and we managed to change their minds. the fact is it takes time, and judging it after a year is foolish especially when compared to similar historical events...saying that it can't be done is wrong, and has been proven so.

[yeat182]

not for japan.

it worked out great for japan, are you serious?

[Sinister Rouge]

amen to that!

amen....

The biggest mass murderer in history Joseph Stalin said along these lines, "the death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million, thats a statistic."

This 703 deaths are not just a statistic, its 703 sons and daughters killed for a lie, its 703 grieving families, 703 dreams ended...all because of an administration's fucked up dream. Militaristic people look at casualties as a statistic...it is fucked up.

And if there is a draft...holy shit....

[UndefinedBoy]

amen....

The biggest mass murderer in history Joseph Stalin said along these lines, "the death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million, thats a statistic."

This 703 deaths are not just a statistic, its 703 sons and daughters killed for a lie, its 703 grieving families, 703 dreams ended...all because of an administration's fucked up dream. Militaristic people look at casualties as a statistic...it is fucked up.

And if there is a draft...holy shit....

Very true...

Just because the death occurs in a war doesn't make it any less tragic than a school shooting or any other horrible event. Death is always a sad thing...but you turn those people into statistics and then it feels better for you to support what they died for.

[yeat182]

amen....

The biggest mass murderer in history Joseph Stalin said along these lines, "the death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million, thats a statistic."

This 703 deaths are not just a statistic, its 703 sons and daughters killed for a lie, its 703 grieving families, 703 dreams ended...all because of an administration's fucked up dream. Militaristic people look at casualties as a statistic...it is fucked up.

And if there is a draft...holy shit....

703 volunteers that willing agreed to give their lives to fight for this country...

[yeat182]

Very true...

Just because the death occurs in a war doesn't make it any less tragic than a school shooting or any other horrible event. Death is always a sad thing...but you turn those people into statistics and then it feels better for you to support what they died for.


you've totally distorted the point of "using these deaths as a statistic". you've turned 703 deaths into a statistic to give yourself an arguement as to why this war is wrong...

[UndefinedBoy]

you've totally distorted the point of "using these deaths as a statistic". you've turned 703 deaths into a statistic to give yourself an arguement as to why this war is wrong...

What? No...I'm telling you 703 is a large number, and thats a lot of people, each one with their own family and life that was cut short. You're the one saying that its not a large statistic and that we've lost more in the past, so it doesn't matter. You may just think "it sucks," but its a tragedy to many...that is my point.

[yeat182]

What? No...I'm telling you 703 is a large number, and thats a lot of people, each one with their own family and life that was cut short. You're the one saying that its not a large statistic and that we've lost more in the past, so it doesn't matter. You may just think "it sucks," but its a tragedy to many...that is my point.

i agree that to those families, it is a tragedy, but there is a much larger picture here, and in the grand scheme of things 700 dead in over a year is a remarkably low number...certainly no cause for us to pull out and run away. to have those 700 people die so that we can give up and run away would be wrong. that is my point.

[Sinister Rouge]

In a war based on false pretenses, 1 death is too many. 706 soliders killed is 706 that didn't have to die. 706 soliders could have been with their family and friends today.

And Bush has gotten us in a situation in we can't pull out or we turn a state that didn't support Al Qeada into Terrorland.

[yeat182]

In a war based on false pretenses, 1 death is too many. 706 soliders killed is 706 that didn't have to die. 706 soliders could have been with their family and friends today.

And Bush has gotten us in a situation in we can't pull out or we turn a state that didn't support Al Qeada into Terrorland.

first, "terrorland" is in reality a couple of cities, most of the country is safe/secure.

and the false pretenses is debateable, was the intellegence wrong? maybe, but there isn't one country in the world that didn't believe it (except maybe Iraq) and there isn't one nation that didn't see Saddam as a threat, and a menace. when push came to shove, some of those countries bailed out, but that doesn't change the fact that they felt that he was a problem. also, there have been al-qeada terrorists found in jordan with WMD's which are believed to have come from Syria, and which may turn out to have come from Iraq. now, i'm not saying they have, but, if it turns out to be true, then what will you say?

(also, there has been nuclear material found in european scrap yards from material imported from Iraq, including missle parts, again, not saying it is definetly a WMD, but there is still a possibility...)

[Sinister Rouge]

We know they had missle engines.

[yeat182]

We know they had missle engines.

the missle parts were found with the nuclear material

[Sinister Rouge]

the missle parts were found with the nuclear material

its not a significant story and it isn"t a smoking gun...these materials could have been around before the first Gulf War....

[yeat182]

its not a significant story and it isn"t a smoking gun...these materials could have been around before the first Gulf War....

i believe i already said it wasn't a smoking gun, however, i'm pretty sure that they were recieved just prior to the invasion last year...

[cantnokdahustle]

it worked out great for japan, are you serious?

please allow me to rephrase.

it did not work out all that grand for Nagasaki and Hiroshima

[yeat182]

please allow me to rephrase.

it did not work out all that grand for Nagasaki and Hiroshima

i see.

[open mind]

first, "terrorland" is in reality a couple of cities, most of the country is safe/secure.

and the false pretenses is debateable, was the intellegence wrong? maybe, but there isn't one country in the world that didn't believe it (except maybe Iraq) and there isn't one nation that didn't see Saddam as a threat, and a menace. when push came to shove, some of those countries bailed out, but that doesn't change the fact that they felt that he was a problem. also, there have been al-qeada terrorists found in jordan with WMD's which are believed to have come from Syria, and which may turn out to have come from Iraq. now, i'm not saying they have, but, if it turns out to be true, then what will you say?

(also, there has been nuclear material found in european scrap yards from material imported from Iraq, including missle parts, again, not saying it is definetly a WMD, but there is still a possibility...)
it's not a maybe anymore the intelligence was shit.
some countries?most of the world did not support us going into iraq, how big was our coalition when we started dropping bombs again?
yeah my cousins uncles best friend knew a guy from syria who knew someone from jordan that was in the market for iraqi wmds and he got em delivered like domino's (it's possible but how exactly do you conclusively prove the source? not on the word of our intelligence community, that's for sure)

[yeat182]

it's not a maybe anymore the intelligence was shit.
some countries?most of the world did not support us going into iraq, how big was our coalition when we started dropping bombs again?
yeah my cousins uncles best friend knew a guy from syria who knew someone from jordan that was in the market for iraqi wmds and he got em delivered like domino's (it's possible but how exactly do you conclusively prove the source? not on the word of our intelligence community, that's for sure)

its been confirmed that the terrorists were from syria

[open mind]

that's not the same as confirmation that they had wmd's from saddams personal stash is it?

[yeat182]

that's not the same as confirmation that they had wmd's from saddams personal stash is it?


i never said they were confirmed:

"also, there have been al-qeada terrorists found in jordan with WMD's which are believed to have come from Syria, and which may turn out to have come from Iraq. now, i'm not saying they have, but, if it turns out to be true, then what will you say?"

[open mind]

i'm curious how it can be proved that wmd's supposedly from iraq went to syria and ended up in jordan.

[yeat182]

i'm curious how it can be proved that wmd's supposedly from iraq went to syria and ended up in jordan.

well, they know already that they went from syria to jordan, so if they find out they were made in Iraq, that pretty much sums it up.

[open mind]

i doubt if there's a paper trail that will document iraqi wmd's going to syria,and i'll have a hard time believing it on our intelligence communities word because of the bad intelligence they provided in the past about iraq.

[yeat182]

i doubt if there's a paper trail that will document iraqi wmd's going to syria,and i'll have a hard time believing it on our intelligence communities word because of the bad intelligence they provided in the past about iraq.

i doubt there is a paper trail either, but who knows, someone could talk or something. and yes, i too don't feel confident in our intellegence, at least as far as the CIA is concerned, the military however, may have better luck, who knows.

[open mind]

unless a group of iraqis takes us to some hidden locations of these wmd's brought to syria,and going into great detail about how they brought them there and where they originated,i'll be skeptical.

[cal1082]

i'm curious how it can be proved that wmd's supposedly from iraq went to syria and ended up in jordan.

the weapons could have some sort of identification #. When the anthrax scared occured they could tell what lab it came from, so i'd imagine they might be able to tell where other weapons would come from.

[open mind]

they were able to tell where the anthrax came from because they came from our labs and we had it all documented,i haven't heard anything about an iraqi database on wmd's being found,something we'd need to clearly identify the source of their making.

[cal1082]

they were able to tell where the anthrax came from because they came from our labs and we had it all documented,i haven't heard anything about an iraqi database on wmd's being found,something we'd need to clearly identify the source of their making.

you would think they documented there weapons because the weapons they did destroy after inspections first started were documented.

[open mind]

well tell me when they find the documents of where the weapons supposedly were created and how they were exported to syria.

[cal1082]

well tell me when they find the documents of where the weapons supposedly were created and how they were exported to syria.

i'm saying they could possibly look at the weapons for identification #'s, and then tell the weapons came from iraq.

[open mind]

possible but kinda unlikely.we've been in iraq for over a year and haven't found any kind of evidence like that yet.

[cal1082]

possible but kinda unlikely.we've been in iraq for over a year and haven't found any kind of evidence like that yet.

well we'd have to find the weapons first

[open mind]

my point is at least right now it's a stretch to say wmd's were shipped out of iraq to syria, and then went to jordan.

[yeat182]

my point is at least right now it's a stretch to say wmd's were shipped out of iraq to syria, and then went to jordan.

which is more or less what i said originally. however, if they were to be proven to come from iraq, would the outlook on the war change?

[open mind]

personally my outlook wouldn't change because i don't think saddam was really threatening to use wmd's on us even if he had them.
the way you said it before was worded differently seeming to imply you believed that syrians were in jordan with iraqi wmds,i think that's a little out there.

[Sinister Rouge]

753 now, 9 dead today

[open mind]

in the month of april some 1300 iraqis were killed, about ten times the amount of caualties we sustained,the cost in human life is rising quickly.

[Sinister Rouge]

in the month of april some 1300 iraqis were killed, about ten times the amount of caualties we sustained,the cost in human life is rising quickly.

Bush's actions have killed more innocent civilians than Osama did in his career in terrorism.

[yeat182]

personally my outlook wouldn't change because i don't think saddam was really threatening to use wmd's on us even if he had them.
the way you said it before was worded differently seeming to imply you believed that syrians were in jordan with iraqi wmds,i think that's a little out there.

the syrians were in jordan with WMD's. there were rumors that the WMD's may be from Iraq, which i suppose is to be expected, but have not been proven.

[yeat182]

Bush's actions have killed more innocent civilians than Osama did in his career in terrorism.

of those 1300 iraqis, how many were innocent bystanders killed by the terrorists? and how many were terrorists killed by US/Iraqi forces? stats like that are intentionally misleading.

[xnotedgex]

of those 1300 iraqis, how many were innocent bystanders killed by the terrorists? and how many were terrorists killed by US/Iraqi forces? stats like that are intentionally misleading.

and you, my friend, have no respect for human life

[yeat182]

and you, my friend, have no respect for human life

i was not the one that threw out these numbers in an attempt to show the failure of the US in Iraq. and you are right, i have very little respect for the lives of terrorists.

[Sinister Rouge]

of those 1300 iraqis, how many were innocent bystanders killed by the terrorists? and how many were terrorists killed by US/Iraqi forces? stats like that are intentionally misleading.

More like 12,000.

Civilians.

[hXc_pwnage]

We are directly related to their deaths. They are there to try and kill us, and civilians are there as well. I am not saying all of the deaths are like this, but many upon many are.

[yeat182]

i was just curious what the number represented, if it represented innocent civillians killed by the allies, or if it was the number killed in general, as a result of the terrorists attacks, or if it included the number of terrorists killed as well...thats all i meant by my original statement.

[Sinister Rouge]

Killed by coalition actions...

[The Bled 13]

Very depressing...

[yeat182]

Killed by coalition actions...

innocents or a combination of innocents and terrorists?

[Sinister Rouge]

innocents or a combination of innocents and terrorists?

innocents only

[open mind]

i think it was insurgents (that's what they call them) and innocents that were counted, with the majority of the causalties being innocents, and something like 300 insurgents being killed.

[yeat182]

ok, that makes a little more sense, only in that for a good chunk of april there was the "cease fire", so i would imagine that the number of innocents killed as a result of coaltion weapons wouldn't be 1300, however terrorist attacks continued during that period, which could account for such a high number, since the coalition also experienced high losses during april as a result of the insurgents. that is where i am confused. 1300 insurgents and innocents makes a little more sense, but i think we need a clearer picture still...

[open mind]

still it was like 200 of our troops to their 1000 innocents,both groups had a bad month, but numbers like these are not good for building iraqi support.

[Sinister Rouge]

More like 12,000.

Civilians.

The number accounts for both Iraq and Afgahinistan, but 10,000 were Iraqis.

Thats not winning hearts and minds.

[cal1082]

The number accounts for both Iraq and Afgahinistan, but 10,000 were Iraqis.

Thats not winning hearts and minds.

Yeah, after 9/11 we should have just waved an American flag over in Afghan. and offered them some pie and a hug

[open mind]

the topic isn't really afghanistan, it's about the people, military and civilian who've died in iraq.

[xnotedgex]

Yeah, after 9/11 we should have just waved an American flag over in Afghan. and offered them some pie and a hug

what a lame attempt at diverting the conversation to something that wasn't being discussed at all

on a seperate note, you neocons have such a lack of respect for human life its astounding

[sweetsugar]

The sad and scary thing is I have a friend over there right now and I just want him to come home as soon as possible. :(
I have 3 friends over there.....I feel your pain.

I'm raising money to send one a care package as we speak. So far I've gotten $55 from 4 people.

[sweetsugar]

possible but kinda unlikely.we've been in iraq for over a year and haven't found any kind of evidence like that yet.
Do you people ever think we aren't beeing told everything?

Jeese.....think about it.

[sweetsugar]

you've totally distorted the point of "using these deaths as a statistic". you've turned 703 deaths into a statistic to give yourself an arguement as to why this war is wrong...
Hey undefined boy and XnotedgeX should form some sort of point distorting hate coalition, cuz they both seem to do it alot.

[open mind]

Do you people ever think we aren't beeing told everything?

Jeese.....think about it.
if there was evidence proving these rumors i'm sure we'd be well informed of it,since it would help bush look better about the decision to go into iraq in the eyes of the general public.
what the fucks with the you people bit?

[UndefinedBoy]

Hey undefined boy and XnotedgeX should form some sort of point distorting hate coalition, cuz they both seem to do it alot.

We should do what?

[xnotedgex]

if there was evidence proving these rumors i'm sure we'd be well informed of it,since it would help bush look better about the decision to go into iraq in the eyes of the general public.
what the fucks with the you people bit?

exactly...i think sweetsugar is the most idiotic person that's posted on here, ever....you honestly think that if wmd's were found, it would not be made public??? you think that bush administration wouldn't release that information to quell the entire world's criticism???

clearly we haven't been told everything, like how the military has employed torture tactics to squeeze information out of prisoners, or how 14 people have died in american custody...but it's all coming out now isnt it, it's all coming out

[xnotedgex]

Hey undefined boy and XnotedgeX should form some sort of point distorting hate coalition, cuz they both seem to do it alot.

do you ever make an argument besides " bitch im in the army, i know how things work"...maybe you should order a review of your debating skills so you can find out you don't have any

[yeat182]

exactly...i think sweetsugar is the most idiotic person that's posted on here, ever....you honestly think that if wmd's were found, it would not be made public??? you think that bush administration wouldn't release that information to quell the entire world's criticism???

clearly we haven't been told everything, like how the military has employed torture tactics to squeeze information out of prisoners, or how 14 people have died in american custody...but it's all coming out now isnt it, it's all coming out

i would hardly classify the allegations of abuse as "torture", it was wrong and they absolutely should be punished, but to call it torture is a little dramatic.

[sweetsugar]

if there was evidence proving these rumors i'm sure we'd be well informed of it,since it would help bush look better about the decision to go into iraq in the eyes of the general public.
what the fucks with the you people bit?
ok......to start of with, I wouldn't have publicized half the stuff that has happened in this war because really. I don't think the public should know as much as they do, it just causes people to bitch and argue anyway.

[sweetsugar]

do you ever make an argument besides " bitch im in the army, i know how things work"...maybe you should order a review of your debating skills so you can find out you don't have any
I've argue'd many points that dont start out with "bitch I'm in the army"
but the fact is, I am in the army, so as far as military things go, I know alot more about it than you do.

[xnotedgex]

i would hardly classify the allegations of abuse as "torture", it was wrong and they absolutely should be punished, but to call it torture is a little dramatic.

if you had electrodes attached to your balls and had them fried, would you consider that torture? i think so

[xnotedgex]

I've argue'd many points that dont start out with "bitch I'm in the army"
but the fact is, I am in the army, so as far as military things go, I know alot more about it than you do.

you don't know anymore about the allegations of abuse then all of us...no one is buying that bullshit so keep it to yourself

[open mind]

ok......to start of with, I wouldn't have publicized half the stuff that has happened in this war because really. I don't think the public should know as much as they do, it just causes people to bitch and argue anyway.
yeah people knowing what their tax dollars are going towards is bad, i couldn't agree more. :uhoh3:
so in your united states of america the media would be controlled and censored so nothing negative ever comes out, and people in power would be able to get away with anything. stalin and plenty of other brutal dictators like i don't know say saddam hussein were big fans of controlling media.

[yeat182]

if you had electrodes attached to your balls and had them fried, would you consider that torture? i think so

did they actually electrocute them? because everything i've heard was that they threatened them with electrocution.

[yeat182]

yeah people knowing what their tax dollars are going towards is bad, i couldn't agree more. :uhoh3:
so in your united states of america the media would be controlled and censored so nothing negative ever comes out, and people in power would be able to get away with anything. stalin and plenty of other brutal dictators like i don't know say saddam hussein were big fans of controlling media.

can't we all stop putting words in each others mouths? that isn't what he said.

[Sinister Rouge]

if you had electrodes attached to your balls and had them fried, would you consider that torture? i think so

They didn't have him electrocuted but they told the prisioner they would and it is sick.

We have also killed prisioners.

[cal1082]

exactly...i think sweetsugar is the most idiotic person that's posted on here, ever....you honestly think that if wmd's were found, it would not be made public??? you think that bush administration wouldn't release that information to quell the entire world's criticism???

clearly we haven't been told everything, like how the military has employed torture tactics to squeeze information out of prisoners, or how 14 people have died in american custody...but it's all coming out now isnt it, it's all coming out

14 prisoners have died but lets not prenounce all these 14 as murders yet. I know you'd love to jump the gun and claim all these as murders but they're currently being investigated.

*You should have kept your promise when you said you were tired of the board and left. All you do is jump conclusions and act like an ass*

[yeat182]

They didn't have him electrocuted but they told the prisioner they would and it is sick.

We have also killed prisioners.

i don't disagree that it is sick, but i wouldn't consider it torture, it is certainly abuse though.

and prisoners have died in US custody, that doesn't mean we killed them...i haven't read specifics though, so if you have a link i'd like to see it.

[cal1082]

i don't disagree that it is sick, but i wouldn't consider it torture, it is certainly abuse though.

and prisoners have died in US custody, that doesn't mean we killed them...i haven't read specifics though, so if you have a link i'd like to see it.

there has been deaths but the investigation to see if they were by torture or abuse from US forces is still going on.

[yeat182]

the problem i have is that these prisoners weren't high value prisoners, like the ones in Guantanamo, they don't have vital information or anthing like that. i mean, abuse isn't right, but i can at least understand it if it was crucial to getting information that will save lives, but these prisoners new nothing, and the soldiers were just being dicks.

[open mind]

ok......to start of with, I wouldn't have publicized half the stuff that has happened in this war because really. I don't think the public should know as much as they do, it just causes people to bitch and argue anyway.
ok he didn't say outright that he would like it if the media was controlled and censored, but he did say the public shouldn't know half the stuff they do about the war in iraq which amounts to the same thing.

[open mind]

can't we all stop putting words in each others mouths? that isn't what he said.
this what i was responding to in my last post.
by the way how do you do multiple quotes in one post?

[yeat182]

ok he didn't say outright that he would like it if the media was controlled and censored, but he did say the public shouldn't know half the stuff they do about the war in iraq which amounts to the same thing.

i'm not going to speak for him, but i got the impression that he feels that if all we are going to do is take every detail that comes out about the war and bitch and moan about it, then we shouldn't be told about it in the first place, and that there are somethings that the public doesn't need to know and are thrown out there with the intent on creating a uproar. i think it speaks more to the sensationalist nature of the media than it does some sinister plot of the government to keep things covered up. i mean, in the 40's the press kept quite about FDR's illness and the fact he used a wheelchair, and no one claimed the government was lying to them about the status of the president. that would never happen in today's society.

[yeat182]

this what i was responding to in my last post.
by the way how do you do multiple quotes in one post?

i think you have to copy and paste any additional quotes you want to include and then but the [quote] tags around it.

[open mind]

if that's his stance he can go fuck himself, if anything the mass media does a poor job covering the war and downplays what's going wrong.
i haven't heard or read any accusations by major news outlets about an elaborate government cover-up about anything in iraq.
as for the comparison to the 40's that's over 60 years ago, in the information age nothing is sacred when it comes to privacy, that's for anyone who's famous, including the president.

[cal1082]

i'd rather the pictures not have come out. All it does is raise anger and betters the chance for attacks on our soldiers. I'd rather the abuses have been dealt with privatly.

[open mind]

then you would get people shouting cover-up, this way you address the issue showing folks that this shit brings world wide condemnation, and let people know your doing something about it.
i think it's better then silence, but that's me.

[cal1082]

then you would get people shouting cover-up, this way you address the issue showing folks that this shit brings world wide condemnation, and let people know your doing something about it.
i think it's better then silence, but that's me.

What if showing those pictures cost 30 American soldier's their lives because of outrage? In that case it's not worth it. I'd rather the situation have been dealt with, and the appropriate people held responsible.

[open mind]

it'll be kinda hard to prove the deaths of people as a direct result of this or any other case of abuse being publicized, the opinion of the u.s. held by iraqis was rapidly falling without this, this won't help, but i doubt if it's gonna end up making moderate iraqis radicals.

[Sinister Rouge]

i don't disagree that it is sick, but i wouldn't consider it torture, it is certainly abuse though.

and prisoners have died in US custody, that doesn't mean we killed them...i haven't read specifics though, so if you have a link i'd like to see it.

There ws a story on cbsnews.com video where a soliders talks about a prisioner that was beat to death. 2 deaths are being investigated.

[xnotedgex]

14 prisoners have died but lets not prenounce all these 14 as murders yet. I know you'd love to jump the gun and claim all these as murders but they're currently being investigated.

*You should have kept your promise when you said you were tired of the board and left. All you do is jump conclusions and act like an ass*

i never jumped to any conclusions ass...why don't you go reread the post to determine its point

i wouldn't have come back but when neocon bullshit is dominating this board i think its a disgrace...that and i've become really bored at work again lately

[xnotedgex]

and that there are somethings that the public doesn't need to know and are thrown out there with the intent on creating a uproar. i think it speaks more to the sensationalist nature of the media than it does some sinister plot of the government to keep things covered up.

you mean like the american accused of being a part of the madrid bombings, being held without being charged, having his reputation ruined, yet not being allowed to respond to the accusations?

where's your uproar over that neocons...where's the uproar over that information being released?

[cal1082]

you mean like the american accused of being a part of the madrid bombings, being held without being charged, having his reputation ruined, yet not being allowed to respond to the accusations?

where's your uproar over that neocons...where's the uproar over that information being released?

i havent heard this story but if he was arrested by Spain, it's under Spains laws.

[xnotedgex]

i havent heard this story but if he was arrested by Spain, it's under Spains laws.

he was arrested at his home, which i believe is in oregon

edit: here's a link

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20040507/ts_latimes/oregonattorneyarrestedoverpossiblet ietospainbombings

[yeat182]

then you would get people shouting cover-up, this way you address the issue showing folks that this shit brings world wide condemnation, and let people know your doing something about it.
i think it's better then silence, but that's me.

the thing is, the pictures came out and the issue is being addressed and the liberals are still crying cover up...

[yeat182]

you mean like the american accused of being a part of the madrid bombings, being held without being charged, having his reputation ruined, yet not being allowed to respond to the accusations?

where's your uproar over that neocons...where's the uproar over that information being released?

there is evidence against him, i don't see what the probelm is.

[xnotedgex]

there is evidence against him, i don't see what the probelm is.


according to the spanish authorities, the evidence that they gathered is inconclusive

that's not the point...the point is he's being held without being charged with anything and he's not allowed to defend himself...his reputation is ruined and he cannot defend himself

[xnotedgex]

the thing is, the pictures came out and the issue is being addressed and the liberals are still crying cover up...

because of the timeline...not to mention the admin is still trying to tell us that these are isolated incidents

[yeat182]

according to the spanish authorities, the evidence that they gathered is inconclusive

that's not the point...the point is he's being held without being charged with anything and he's not allowed to defend himself...his reputation is ruined and he cannot defend himself

he is being held as a material witness.

[yeat182]

because of the timeline...not to mention the admin is still trying to tell us that these are isolated incidents

well, the investigation started in Jan., on March 20th 6 american soldiers were arrested on abuse charges, then over a month later the pictures come out, and then they "cover up" charges began. i mean, i don't see where the cover up was exactly, especially since everyone is taking heat for it now. I'm sure there was a cover up at the prison, espeically by those involved in the acts, but to implicate bush or other high ranking officials is a little ridiculous at this point. manybe more evidence will come out, who knows...

[open mind]

the thing is, the pictures came out and the issue is being addressed and the liberals are still crying cover up...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4925464/
now i can see why, at least to a point, the pictures weren't released by the administration (they were an unauthorized disclosure) and they tried to at the least stall the broadcast of them (general myers has admitted to trying to supress the pictures)

[cal1082]

according to the spanish authorities, the evidence that they gathered is inconclusive

that's not the point...the point is he's being held without being charged with anything and he's not allowed to defend himself...his reputation is ruined and he cannot defend himself

It's a tough situation. He would be able to defend himself in court if he is charged with anything. If he's not charged with anything it could hurt his reputation long term. Look at Richard Jewel though the supposed "Olympic Park Bomber". His reputation at the time got trashed, mainly from the media which I think he sued NBC, but his reputation is no where ruined now.

[yeat182]

i would say if you don't want your reputation ruined, don't aid terrorists.

[xnotedgex]

i would say if you don't want your reputation ruined, don't aid terrorists.

i would say if it hasn't been proven that he aided terrorists, don't make statements that he did

[xnotedgex]

well, the investigation started in Jan., on March 20th 6 american soldiers were arrested on abuse charges, then over a month later the pictures come out, and then they "cover up" charges began. i mean, i don't see where the cover up was exactly, especially since everyone is taking heat for it now. I'm sure there was a cover up at the prison, espeically by those involved in the acts, but to implicate bush or other high ranking officials is a little ridiculous at this point. manybe more evidence will come out, who knows...

the timeline doesn't start with the investigation, it starts with the reports of abuse

and i haven't heard one person accuse bush of a cover up, why do you neocons always assume its bush that liberals are criticizing...most intelligent libs are smart enough to know the truly evil people are in his inner circle, not him

and the one proven cover up was the pentagon telling abc (or whatever network that had attained the pics) not to show them until permission was granted....the network eventually showed them without permission

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id= 1000506847

[sweetsugar]

the timeline doesn't start with the investigation, it starts with the reports of abuse

and i haven't heard one person accuse bush of a cover up, why do you neocons always assume its bush that liberals are criticizing...most intelligent libs are smart enough to know the truly evil people are in his inner circle, not him

and the one proven cover up was the pentagon telling abc (or whatever network that had attained the pics) not to show them until permission was granted....the network eventually showed them without permission

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id= 1000506847
If I was president I'd be covering up things left and right, and as for privacy, I think it's total bullshit the media can publicize the stuff they do, just because you are famous doesn't mean you should lose your rights to privacy, look what its done to Michael jackson.

[open mind]

your a moron,haven't you read the constitution? theres a little bit in there about freedom of the press. i thought you were in the army "defending our freedoms"

[sweetsugar]

your a moron,haven't you read the constitution? theres a little bit in there about freedom of the press. i thought you were in the army "defending our freedoms"
Dude, I didn't mean it like that. How would you like it if everything you did was publicized and you didn't have any privacy. That's what I'm trying to get across. Yes some publicity is good. But everyone needs their own privacy. Look what the media did to Princess Diana. It's non of our business to know everytime scott weiland gets put back into rehab. He should have some privacy. That's what I'm trying to say, every moment of a person's life shouldn't be documented and publicized. No I'm not a moron, I just don't believe in the big brother program. Which is what the media is slowly turning into.

[open mind]

what's going on with our leadership and the war is our buisness,i don't see what princess diana's privacy has to do with the deaths of our troops in iraq which is what this thread is about.
as for the privacy issue that's part of the price of fame.