Just Be Careful What You Get Yourself Into

[Jared Kaufman]

If you're in a band and are planning on submitting your music to websites such as music.download.com make sure you read the email we got in the replies first. This is just a warning.

[Jared Kaufman]

Hey I found something interesting that, if it's how it seems to me, the general music producing public may want to know, esp before this website gets launched.

Granted I don't know much about business or contracts etc....I found this very interesting. I'm in a band and I was going to sign us up to post our stuff on the soon-to-be-launched music.download.com site. As I'm reading through the terms and conditions (something more people should do) something caught my attention.

" By submitting material to the Service, you represent and warrant that:
you are at least 18 years of age. By submitting sound recordings or musical compositions or other audio and/or audio-visual content to us, you grant us, our affiliates, and our business partners a worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive license to:
publicly perform, publicly display, broadcast, encode, edit, alter, modify, reproduce, transmit, manufacture, distribute, and synchronize with visual images your material, in whole or in part, alone or in compilation with content provided by third parties, through any medium now known or hereafter devised for the purpose of demonstrating, promoting, or distributing your material, to users seeking to download or otherwise acquire it and/or storing the work in a remote database accessible by users;
make your material accessible as audio streams,
and use any trademarks, service marks, or trade names incorporated into your material and use the likeness of any individual whose performance or image is contained in your material.
...........In addition to CNET Download.com Music, certain material that you submit may, in our sole discretion, also become available to certain of our partners around the world.....

In addition to CNET Download.com Music, certain material that you submit may, in our sole discretion, also become available to certain of our partners around the world. If we discover that you have manipulated the data or statistics for certain materials, we reserve the right to remove the product from the CNET Download.com Music library and from CNET Download.com Music.

The content on the Service is intended for your personal, noncommercial use. All materials published on the Service, including, but not limited to, photographs, graphics, images, illustrations, sound clips and Flash animations, are protected by copyright. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale of, reproduce, create new works from, distribute, perform display, or in any way exploit any of the materials or content or the service in whole or in part. "

I have not parsed their words...it's all stated at http://artists.download.com/3060-21-5117355.html

Essentially this website and its "partners" can capitalize off of musicians who are just trying to share their music. They can reproduce, perform, and sell the material on their site and say it's "promotion". Because nowhere in there does it state that they are not allowed to charge people.

Granted they may never do so because they are decent people...But it's still something i think the music community should be aware of.

Thanks!

-Jordan Hoefar

[X__inhope]

holy shit. thats insane

[thejerm1000]

Goddamn, that is SO American.

[halfpricepizza]

I could shorten that e-mail to two sentences:

We own your soul if you give us your music.
We are Hellspawn, thus, this should not surprise you.

[Jason Priestley]

I could shorten that e-mail to two sentences:

We own your soul if you give us your music.
We are Hellspawn, thus, this should not surprise you.

This contract is nothing new. Almost any contest/website that streams music has a similar thing. These are the things you must do if you're a struggling musician...make a deal with the devil...


www.purevolume.com/casualblue

[splitsecond]

As the resident law student let me try and explain this as simply as possible....

They can use the music for all the purposes listed, however, this agreement wouldnt hold up if the company started selling the music. Read carefully, it doesnt talk about doing ANYTHING for profit. They just get the right to use it.

Also, it says that it is a "nonexclusive" license. That means you can still do whatever the hell you want with your music, but they are allowed to use it too.

It may be full of big words, but all it does is give the company the right to use it in regards to the website and promotion of the website.

[bubbles]

yes, they can make money off of it. mp3.com had a very similar agreement. and no, not all sites that stream music have agreements like this, that is why you should read them.

[splitsecond]

OK, I have taken contract law, I know what I am talking about. This agreement mentions "distributions", not selling. They can make money indirectly through its use, but I gaurantee that it would not hold up in court as allowing them to sell the songs.

Basically, if they started selling the music, bands could very easily make them stop. Don't try and argue this with me unless you know what the law is.

[chukisit]

yeah, splitsecond is right....I work in the business and work on contracts on an almost daily basis. Theres nothing suprising about that agreement. As to whether it is standard.....thats debatable, but theres certainly nothing that would make me as a musician worry about the consequences of using this service.

[GetWellBoss]

Actually they can't press the music but they can "sell/give" it to other companies for use of the song without paying you. But they MUST credit you with the song. But this would be a loss in Mechanical royalties not artist royalties. In other words money from playing your song over commercial/movie/advertising/compilations. Just cover your ass by "poor man's" copyrighting it by mailing it to yourself and NOT opening it. This will make sure that they can't claim the song as their own. That's the most important part.

[Jason Tate]

Actually they can't press the music but they can "sell/give" it to other companies for use of the song without paying you. But they MUST credit you with the song. But this would be a loss in Mechanical royalties not artist royalties. In other words money from playing your song over commercial/movie/advertising/compilations. Just cover your ass by "poor man's" copyrighting it by mailing it to yourself and NOT opening it. This will make sure that they can't claim the song as their own. That's the most important part.

interesting.. is that mailing thing true? and if it is, WHY does that work...

[GetWellBoss]

interesting.. is that mailing thing true? and if it is, WHY does that work...

It's proof of a specific date that is stamped by part of the federal goverment. As long as it is a sealed letter with a time/date stamp on it by a federal post office you are good to go.

The next step is mail it into the copyright office and pay $35(i think). You can copyright as many songs as you want at once but everytime you send something in you pay $35. So it is best to send a full album.

[bubbles]

OK, I have taken contract law, I know what I am talking about. This agreement mentions "distributions", not selling. They can make money indirectly through its use, but I gaurantee that it would not hold up in court as allowing them to sell the songs.

Basically, if they started selling the music, bands could very easily make them stop. Don't try and argue this with me unless you know what the law is.
okay, maybe i haven't taken contract law, but i have carefully read both the user agreeements for the OLD mp3.com and music.download.com. if mp3.com was able to sell the music(no they didn't do it by actually pressing cd's or anything, but they did sell it,) then why can't music.download.com do the same?

[GetWellBoss]

okay, maybe i haven't taken contract law, but i have carefully read both the user agreeements for the OLD mp3.com and music.download.com. if mp3.com was able to sell the music(no they didn't do it by actually pressing cd's or anything, but they did sell it,) then why can't music.download.com do the same?

You and splitsecond(stop being stubborn you dumbass :lol2: ) are saying the same thing in just 2 different ways. They CAN make money from your music. It's not exactly selling but they are making money so technically it is. They get paid from companies for the use of the songs. The company won't sell the song so other people can hear good music it's more of random stuff. Most likely it will go to background music or advertising or random stuff like that(dealing with mechanical royalties).

[foreverDOWN]

Actually they can't press the music but they can "sell/give" it to other companies for use of the song without paying you. But they MUST credit you with the song. But this would be a loss in Mechanical royalties not artist royalties. In other words money from playing your song over commercial/movie/advertising/compilations. Just cover your ass by "poor man's" copyrighting it by mailing it to yourself and NOT opening it. This will make sure that they can't claim the song as their own. That's the most important part.


I used to think this too, but I found out recently that its actually just an old wives tale and it doens't hold up in court so well these days. The only way to copyright something is throught the patents office. Do NOT! rely on a poor man's copyright. If you want something copyrighted, put it on a CD and fill out the forms through the US patent office. Then pay the 35 dollar fee or whatever. It will be a 35 dollars well spent.

[splitsecond]

Well the reason that it could fail to hold up in court really is a matter of a couple things....

First, it is a matter of evidence. If all you have is the poor man's copyright, it may not be sufficient to prove that you actually created the material.

Second, the poor man's copyright only prevents people from profitting off of your material. It allows you to prove that you in fact created the material. One of the really basic premises of law is that one person cannot profit off of someone elses work simply by copying it and selling it as their own. Copyright law expands protection to copying without profitting.

In the end, the "poor man's copyright" is not a copyright at all, but a cheap way to protect yourself from other people selling your shit as their own.

[GetWellBoss]

I used to think this too, but I found out recently that its actually just an old wives tale and it doens't hold up in court so well these days. The only way to copyright something is throught the patents office. Do NOT! rely on a poor man's copyright. If you want something copyrighted, put it on a CD and fill out the forms through the US patent office. Then pay the 35 dollar fee or whatever. It will be a 35 dollars well spent.

I didnt mean rely only on that. But that is a step in which you can take at the beginning to copyright your music so no one else can claim it as their own. But you should copyright it through the patent office. I just do that to make sure it's better safe then sorry in the beginning.