1st Half MLB Awards

[xbrokendownx]

with the first half of the season all but done, who do you think are the major award winners at this point?

AL MVP
NL MVP

AL Cy Young
NL Cy Young

AL Rookie of the year
NL Rookie of the year

AL manager of the year
NL manager of the year

[rcrook]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Lance Berkman

AL Cy Young: Mariano Rivera
NL Cy Young: Tim Lincecum

AL Rookie of the Year: Evan Longoria
NL Rookie of the Year: Geo Soto

AL manager of the year: Joe Maddon
NL manager of the year: Lou Pinella

[Throwback]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Lance Berkman

AL Cy Young: Mariano Rivera
NL Cy Young: Tim Lincecum

AL Rookie of the Year: Evan Longoria
NL Rookie of the Year: Geo Soto

AL manager of the year: Joe Maddon
NL manager of the year: Lou Pinella
About a month ago, I thought Utley was pretty much a shoe-in for NL MVP, but he needs to get over this slump and then we'll see.

Its a toss-up between Lincecum and Webb for NL Cy Young. I hate the Rangers, but damn Josh Hamilton is soooo good.

[whatdoiget000]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Chase Utley

AL Cy Young: Cliff Lee
NL Cy Young: Brandon Webb

AL RoY: Evan Longoria
NL RoY: Edinson Volquez (Does he qualify?)
I'm gonna change this to Soto for now. But I feel like Chase Headley will be up here at the end of the season.

AL MoY: Dave Trembley
NL MoY: Tony La Russa

[LeftWideOpen]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Albert Pujols

AL Cy Young: Roy Halladay
NL Cy Young: Edinson Volquez

AL ROY: Evan Longoria
NL ROY: Geovanny Soto

AL Manager of the Year: Joe Maddon
NL Manager of the Year: Tony La Russa

[xbrokendownx]

AL MVP Ian Kinsler, Rangers. .337/.397/.548, 14 HR, 58 RBI. Leads the league in batting, hits, runs, total bases, extra-base hits and multihit games
NL MVP Lance Berkman, Astros. .347/.443/.653 22 HR, 73 RBI. I know the Astros blow but he is having an incredible year

AL Cy Young Roy Halladay, Jays 2.71 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 121 K, 7 CG
NL Cy Young Tim Lincecum, Giants. 2.57 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 135 K

AL Rookie of the year Evan Longoria, Rays. .278/.352/.520, 16 HR, 53 RBI
NL Rookie of the year Geovany Soto, Cubs. .286/.367/.521, 16 HR, 55 RBI (Volquez isnt technically a rookie, is he?

AL manager of the year Joe Maddon, Rays
NL manager of the year Lou Piniella, Cubs

[LeftWideOpen]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Chase Utley

AL Cy Young: Cliff Lee
NL Cy Young: Brandon Webb

AL RoY: Evan Longoria
NL RoY: Edinson Volquez (Does he qualify?)

AL MoY: Dave Trembley
NL MoY: Tony La Russa

Volquez doesnt count

and Trembley? You kidding me?

[rcrook]

Dave Trembley for manager of the year? You do realize the O's were 3 games better than the Rays last year and now are 9.5 worse than them now?

[LeftWideOpen]

also, I love Lincecum ... but I can't see the case for him over Volquez. SO's are identical, Volquez has the better WHIP and most importantly .. he has .28 on him in ERA.

If I were predicting the winner at the end of the season, Lincecum would be a great choice. But I can't take him over Volquez right now.

edit: Lincecum actually has 9 more. I wasnt including today.

[whatdoiget000]

Volquez doesnt count

and Trembley? You kidding me?

Yes, the team that was supposed to lose 100+ games that is hanging around .500 and he still controls the clubhouse after the disasters he replaced. You can argue for Joe Maddon, and I can appreciate the job he's done. But a lot of projections had the Rays winning 89-91 games before the season even began.

[xbrokendownx]

"hanging around .500" shouldnt win you manager of the year

[rcrook]

dude you're 3 games under .500 no manager should be considered manager of the year with a losing season i don't care what you were projected to lose.

[xbrokendownx]

also, i was going to vote for Mo for Cy Young also, but i thought id be called a homer

its gotta be Halladay though

[rcrook]

al cy young, nl cy young and nl mvp are really up in the air right now, i don't think there is a right answer thus far.

[whatdoiget000]

Dave Trembley for manager of the year? You do realize the O's were 3 games better than the Rays last year and now are 9.5 worse than them now?
So how many better were the Sox last year? And now? That's the worst logic I've ever heard. The team traded their ace and best hitter, and is playing better than anyone expected and better than they were with those two players.

[LeftWideOpen]

al cy young, nl cy young and nl mvp are really up in the air right now, i don't think there is a right answer thus far.

yeah, after factoring in today's start for Lincecum, it can go either way. I still like Volquez, mainly because of his ERA + SO combo, but you can make a case for Lincecum. He has a better K/BB ratio and a few more QS's.

[xbrokendownx]

just because theyre doing better than expected doesnt mean theyre a good team, jesus

the royals are doing better than i thought...that doesnt mean theyre good

[LeftWideOpen]

So how many better were the Sox last year? And now? That's the worst logic I've ever heard. The team traded their ace and best hitter, and is playing better than anyone expected and better than they were with those two players.

Trembley has done a good job, no doubting that.

but I think a critical factor in being the Manager of the Year is that the team you have is actually good, lol. The Orioles are mediocre, regardless of whether or not they may be exceeding expectations.

[whatdoiget000]

"hanging around .500" shouldnt win you manager of the year
Ok, so I guess Torre and Francona should have just split it every other year no matter how many players they had bought for them. Nevermind anything a manager actual does for a team as far as keeping the team together, motivating, and running the game.

[whatdoiget000]

Trembley has done a good job, no doubting that.

but I think a critical factor in being the Manager of the Year is that the team you have is actually good, lol. The Orioles are mediocre, regardless of whether or not they may be exceeding expectations.
See: Joe Girardi, 2006 Marlins.

[xbrokendownx]

someone else take this, im just getting mad now

[LeftWideOpen]

Ok, so I guess Torre and Francona should have just split it every other year no matter how many players they had bought for them. Nevermind anything a manager actual does for a team as far as keeping the team together, motivating, and running the game.

this is a horrible response.

A) Francona has never won the award
B) Torre hadn't won since 1998, when they won 114 games.

Here's the people who have won lately in the AL:

Eric Wedge, Jim Leyland, Ozzie Guillen, Tony Pena, Mike Sciosia, Lou Pinella.

What did they all have in common? Winning teams, not markets.

[LeftWideOpen]

and by the way, the 2008 Orioles are not the 2006 Marlins.

the 2006 Marlins payroll was under $15 million. Baltimore's is over $67 million.

[Broken Parachute]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton (it's hard to argue against the season he's having)
NL MVP: Chipper Jones (leads the entire MLB in batting average, OBP, second in SLG%, second in OPS...and yeah I know Berkman has better numbers overall but I think Chipper should be recognized for being so damn consistent)

AL Cy Young: Roy Halladay (I know it's tough not to pick Cliff Lee, but Halladay has 7 complete games to go along with his fantastic year)
NL Cy Young: Edinson Volquez (he and Lincecum have such similar stats, but Volquez edges him out...it's such a tough choice because both of them are winning convincingly for teams that aren't very good..you can definitely make a case for Lincecum...Brandon Webb also deserves some credit for his phenomenal first half)

AL Rookie of the year: Evan Longoria (I know everyone has a huge chubby for all of the Rays players, but there's no doubt he's been exactly what everyone thought he'd be at the major league level)
NL Rookie of the year: Geovany Soto (came out of nowhere and surprised everyone, he's been so solid all year, great power hitter numbers)

AL manager of the year: Joe Maddon (it's no surprise that he's most likely going to be the unanimous Manager of the Year at the season's end [as long as they get hot again and keep moving forward], simply for the fact that Tampa Bay has never won more than 70 games as a franchise and already at the halfway point of this season they have 55 and are in first place...they're a young team, still learning, and they've definitely been fierce under Maddon's watch in a division that includes a powerhouse like the Red Sox, the Yankees who are always dangerous even when not having a great season, and one of the best rotations in all of baseball in Toronto [although now decimated by injury])
NL manager of the year: Jerry Manuel...just kidding. Tony LaRussa (I don't think anyone expected the Cardinals to be right up the Cubs' ass in that Central division, they've definitely surpassed expectations especially in doing better than Milwaukee thus far)

[whatdoiget000]

this is a horrible response.

A) Francona has never won the award
B) Torre hadn't won since 1998, when they won 114 games.

Here's the people who have won lately in the AL:

Eric Wedge, Jim Leyland, Ozzie Guillen, Tony Pena, Mike Sciosia, Lou Pinella.

What did they all have in common? Winning teams, not markets.

This is not a horrible response. I never insinuated that either actually won the award every year, but that by the person in question's logic, they should. It was really directed towards him being a Yankee fan, but what do you have to say about Joe Girardi with the 2006 Marlins? 78-84.

[wesgemm08]

It is pretty impressive what Trembly has been able to do working with the likes of Millar, Mora, Fahey, Bynum, Sarfate, Liz, etc. etc... He doesn't deserve the award though.

[LeftWideOpen]

This is not a horrible response. I never insinuated that either actually won the award every year, but that by the person in question's logic, they should. It was really directed towards him being a Yankee fan, but what do you have to say about Joe Girardi with the 2006 Marlins? 78-84.

see my above post. A payroll of $14 million usually grants someone as an exception to the rule.

[youkwalks]

AL MVP - JD Drew
NL MVP - Chase Utley

AL Cy Young - Roy Halladay
NL Cy Young - Tim Lincecum

AL Rookie of the year - Longoria
NL Rookie of the year - Soto

standard stuff.

[whatdoiget000]

see my above post. A payroll of $14 million usually grants someone as an exception to the rule.
A team filled with aging vets that no one wants and a very youthful pitching staff can also grant someone that exception. Or when you trade your ace and best hitter away. You outlined a very specific guideline for what the manager of the year should have done...and then found an exception. Why was A-Rod MVP in 2003? His team won 71 games that year. The playoffs and championships are there for the best team. Postseason awards cover individuals.

[kshtoinks12]

AL MVP Quentin
NL MVP Berkman

AL Cy Young Douche-er-er
NL Cy Young Eddie V

AL Rookie of the year Joba/Longoria
NL Rookie of the year Soto

AL manager of the year Ron Gardenhire
NL manager of the year Sweet Lou.

[MyWorldEntire]

Maddon has done a fantastic job with the Devil Rays, but don't ignore the job that Ozzie has done with the White Sox. No one could have predicted the White Sox would be in 1st place in the AL Central halfway through the year, he has definitely lit a spark under the players.

But I still believe Maddon deserves the award.

[Broken Parachute]

Maddon has done a fantastic job with the Devil Rays, but don't ignore the job that Ozzie has done with the White Sox. No one could have predicted the White Sox would be in 1st place in the AL Central halfway through the year, he has definitely lit a spark under the players.

But I still believe Maddon deserves the award.Tampa has never had more than 70 wins in one season and they've got 55 already. They're in a division with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Blue Jays.

It's not like Chicago has been so amazing...really it's more like the rest of the division has been so bad. I'm not trying to take away what the Sox have done, but you know what I mean?

[whatdoiget000]

Yeah, I can see the Tigers surfacing and taking the division now that Cleveland's given up and they're back to playing like they were supposed to. But between them, the Twins, and the Sox it'll be interesting. Of course you could lump the Twins in with the Sox as far as being mediocre goes.

[livethesounds]

AL MVP - Lance Berkman
NL MVP - Josh Hamilton

AL Cy Young - Roy Halliday
NL Cy Young - Brandon Webb

AL Rookie of the year - David Murphy
NL Rookie of the year - Geovany Soto

AL manager of the year - Joe Maddon
NL manager of the year - Tony Larusa

[Broken Parachute]

Uhhhh...

Twins statistics (in all of baseball):
5th in Runs Scored
4th in Hits
4th in team Batting Average

Twins statistics in AL only:
3rd in Runs Scored
3rd in Hits
3rd in team Batting Average
4th in RBI's

How is that mediocre?

[whatdoiget000]

Uhhhh...

Twins statistics (in all of baseball):
5th in Runs Scored
4th in Hits
4th in team Batting Average

Twins statistics in AL only:
3rd in Runs Scored
3rd in Hits
3rd in team Batting Average
4th in RBI's

How is that mediocre?

ERA: 4.34= 10th in the AL

[Chris M.]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton - honorable mention: Ian Kinsler, Justin Morneau
NL MVP: Lance Berkman - honorable mention: Chipper Jones, Chase Utley

AL Cy Young: Roy Halladay - honorable mention: Cliff Lee, Justin Duchscherer
NL Cy Young: Edinson Volquez - honorable mention: Tim Lincecum, Ben Sheets

AL Rookie of the Year: Evan Longoria - honorable mention: Nick Blackburn, Jacoby Ellsbury, David Murphy
NL Rookie of the Year: Geovany Soto - honorable mention: Jay Bruce, Kosuke Fukudome, Joey Votto

AL manager of the year: Joe Maddon - honorable mention: Ron Gardenhire
NL manager of the year: Tony La Russa - honorable mention: Lou Piniella

[Broken Parachute]

ERA: 4.34= 10th in the ALNo shit, their pitching is garbage. Everyone knows that. Their offense has been carrying them though. You can say the exact same thing for the Texas Rangers. Their hitting is carrying them and that's it. Their pitching is probably even worse.

[StandMyBrothers]

AL MVP:Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Albert Pujols

AL Cy Young: Justin Duscherer
NL Cy Young: Edison Volquez/Tim Lincecum toss-up

AL ROTY: Evan Longoria
NL ROTY: Geovany Soto

AL MOTY: Ron Gardenhire
NL MOTY: Tony La Russa

[whatdoiget000]

No shit, their pitching is garbage. Everyone knows that. Their offense has been carrying them though. You can say the exact same thing for the Texas Rangers. Their hitting is carrying them and that's it. Their pitching is probably even worse.
And this separates them from mediocrity how? Pitching wins championships, because it's generally consistent. Hitting comes and goes. Numerically speaking, the Twins are lucky, having won about 4 more games than they should have. You said the White Sox are simply mediocre and the Twins are not, when it's the Sox with the 2nd best ERA and above average hitting.

[ForlrnPerplxity]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Complete toss up between Chipper Jones, Lance Berkman, and Albert Pujols. I'm more inclined to give it to Jones.

AL Cy Young: I bet Halladay outperforms Lee by the end of the year, but I give it to Cliff Lee right now.
NL Cy Young: Edinson Volquez, but I bet Webb outperforms him by the end of the year and gets it.

AL ROTY: Evan Longoria
NL ROTY: G. Soto

AL Manager of the Year: Joe Maddon. Not even close.
NL Manager of the Year: Tony La Russa

[Broken Parachute]

And this separates them from mediocrity how? Pitching wins championships, because it's generally consistent. Hitting comes and goes. Numerically speaking, the Twins are lucky, having won about 4 more games than they should have. You said the White Sox are simply mediocre and the Twins are not, when it's the Sox with the 2nd best ERA and above average hitting.Uhhh, I didn't say the Sox were mediocre. I said they weren't amazing.

[whatdoiget000]

Not bad, not good. Mediocre. Whatever man, I don't feel like arguing this. I just don't see the Twins as anything special either.

[Broken Parachute]

They're not, but you can't argue that they've exceeded expectations just as much as anyone else. They were supposed to be in the basement of the division.

[Flags of Dawn]

I wish there were more categories for this (biggest surprise/disappointment, etc)

[xbrokendownx]

you guys can add whatever categories you want, i just figured id go with the basic ones to start

[Broken Parachute]

Yeah, just add it if you want.

[MyWorldEntire]

Tampa has never had more than 70 wins in one season and they've got 55 already. They're in a division with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Blue Jays.

It's not like Chicago has been so amazing...really it's more like the rest of the division has been so bad. I'm not trying to take away what the Sox have done, but you know what I mean?

I see what you are saying, and like I said: I think that Maddon should win the award. In the division they are in, what they have accomplished is just unbelievable.

I just think Ozzie deserves some credit for leading the team to first place when no one had the White Sox finishing anywhere higher than 3rd. And with the rotation with the best ERA in the American league, combined with a good offense, I think they will make some noise come October. But if the White Sox want to be a legetimate World Series contender, they need for Konerko and Thome to turn it around.

[Broken Parachute]

I see what you are saying, and like I said: I think that Maddon should win the award. In the division they are in, what they have accomplished is just unbelievable.

I just think Ozzie deserves some credit for leading the team to first place when no one had the White Sox finishing anywhere higher than 3rd. And with the rotation with the best ERA in the American league, combined with a good offense, I think they will make some noise come October. But if the White Sox want to be a legetimate World Series contender, they need for Konerko and Thome to turn it around.Yeah, I see what you mean and I agree.

[BuriedAlive]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Hanley Ramirez

AL CY Young: Ervin Santana
NL CY Young: Danny Haren

(My rookie picks were based on then never playing in the Majors before this year)
AL ROY: Evan Longoria
NL ROY: Blake DeWitt

AL Reliever of the Year: Francisco Rodriguez
NL Reliever of the Year: Kerry Wood

AL Manager of the Year: Joe Madden
NL Manager of the Year: Tony LaRussa

[StandMyBrothers]

Jay Bruce could very well be the NL ROTY by the time the season ends.

[xbrokendownx]

youve gotta give it to Kinsler over Hamilton IMO. Kinsler has the best average in the AL, more hits (most in the AL), beter OBP (by a pretty good margin), 23 steals, almost identical slugging % and more extra base hits (most in the AL)

[BuriedAlive]

youve gotta give it to Kinsler over Hamilton IMO. Kinsler has the best average in the AL, more hits (most in the AL), beter OBP (by a pretty good margin), 23 steals, almost identical slugging % and more extra base hits (most in the AL)

You know. I agree with that completely, and I would have picked Kinsler but it's hard to be fully rational when you see what Hamilton has done to get where he is.

[LeftWideOpen]

A team filled with aging vets that no one wants and a very youthful pitching staff can also grant someone that exception. Or when you trade your ace and best hitter away. You outlined a very specific guideline for what the manager of the year should have done...and then found an exception. Why was A-Rod MVP in 2003? His team won 71 games that year. The playoffs and championships are there for the best team. Postseason awards cover individuals.

No, I didn't. By no means did I say that you must manage the best team, or one of the top few, to win the award. Managers of winning teams tend to win the award because of the combination of managing a winning team that has exceeded expectations. Some years, there are no teams that stand out as having outperformed their preseason expectations, so the managers of the most successful teams may win. Or in years like 2006, with Girardi running a team with a payroll of $14 million, and 2003, where Tony Pena took an atrocious franchise to an above .500 record and a 7 game lead at the All-Star break, the award goes to managers who led clubs that exceeded expectations to such a degree that it overshadows the fact that they weren't playing October baseball.

Dave Trembley and the 2008 Baltimore Orioles aren't that type of special case. They are a sub .500 team that is playing a little above expectations. He's done a good job, in that respect. But there are managers like Joe Maddon, Ron Gardenhire, Ozzie Guillen, Ron Washington and Bob Geren that are running clubs that had similar expectations and have achieved far better results to this point. Trembley is doing a good job, but by no means does it stand out among the rest.

[whatdoiget000]

No, I didn't. By no means did I say that you must manage the best team, or one of the top few, to win the award. Managers of winning teams tend to win the award because of the combination of managing a winning team that has exceeded expectations. Some years, there are no teams that stand out as having outperformed their preseason expectations, so the managers of the most successful teams may win. Or in years like 2006, with Girardi running a team with a payroll of $14 million, and 2003, where Tony Pena took an atrocious franchise to an above .500 record and a 7 game lead at the All-Star break, the award goes to managers who led clubs that exceeded expectations to such a degree that it overshadows the fact that they weren't playing October baseball.

Dave Trembley and the 2008 Baltimore Orioles aren't that type of special case. They are a sub .500 team that is playing a little above expectations. He's done a good job, in that respect. But there are managers like Joe Maddon, Ron Gardenhire, Ozzie Guillen, Ron Washington and Bob Geren that are running clubs that had similar expectations and have achieved far better results to this point. Trembley is doing a good job, but by no means does it stand out among the rest.
Ok, so you give the internet first half award to who you want, and I'll give it to who I want. You're not going to change my mind. The Rays are doing exactly what I'd thought they do, and I still expect them to win about 88 games this year, give or take. The O's aren't going to lose 110. This is what I think the award is for, and I picked Acta to win in last year for the job he did. I'm not looking for the manager who has the worst team, only when I see teams that are receiving that extra boost from a good manager.

[Scott Weber]

I seriously think if Milton Bradley can stay healthy and get more ABs, he's got a serious case for AL MVP.

[Scott Weber]

Jay Bruce could very well be the NL ROTY by the time the season ends.
Doubt it. He's been shit other than those first 10 days.

[LeftWideOpen]

The Rays are doing exactly what I'd thought they do, and I still expect them to win about 88 games this year, give or take. The O's aren't going to lose 110. This is what I think the award is for, and I picked Acta to win in last year for the job he did.

And you thought that the Rangers, Twins, A's and White Sox would all play the way they have?

Somehow i doubt that. They've all exceeded expectations, to this point, more than Trembley. Geren and Gardenhire, especially. So, even if you want to count Maddon out (which noone else who follows the game of baseball seems to be on the same page as you, in that respect), there are others more qualified for the award.

if you dont want to have a legit discussion and you just want to be a homer, tell me so and we can drop it.

[LeftWideOpen]

interesting note, as of july 1st, if you went by how teams have played compared to their pythagorean predictions.. the manager's of the year would be Scioscia (+7) and a split b/t Yost (+4) and Gonzalez (+4). That's of July 1st, though.

[Scott Weber]

interesting note, as of july 1st, if you went by how teams have played compared to their pythagorean predictions.. the manager's of the year would be Scioscia (+7) and a split b/t Yost (+4) and Gonzalez (+4). That's of July 1st, though.
but then last year's managers of the years would be hargrove/mclaren and bob melvin. i don't think that reflects on the manager that much.

[LeftWideOpen]

but then last year's managers of the years would be hargrove/mclaren and bob melvin. i don't think that reflects on the manager that much.

from the standpoint of overachieving, I think the managers deserve a significant amount of credit. that's really one of the critical factors that I think consistutes the manager of the year.

i'm not saying those should be the winners... but if one were a hardcore believer in pythagorean predictions, those would probably be the front-runners.

[Scott Weber]

from the standpoint of overachieving, I think the managers deserve a significant amount of credit. that's really one of the critical factors that I think consistutes the manager of the year.

i'm not saying those should be the winners... but if one were a hardcore believer in pythagorean predictions, those would probably be the front-runners.
I don't see how a team losing 10-0 a ton of times but winning a lot of 4-3 games reflects well on the manager. It reflects well on the bullpen, maybe.

[whatdoiget000]

interesting note, as of july 1st, if you went by how teams have played compared to their pythagorean predictions.. the manager's of the year would be Scioscia (+7) and a split b/t Yost (+4) and Gonzalez (+4). That's of July 1st, though.
Pythagorean isn't a projection though. I'm talking projections from the beginning of the year, not records based on runs scored/allowed. Pythagorean is just how lucky a team has been. Look at the Diamondbacks' last year from their playoff run. They made themselves better with Haren and continuing to develop their players right? They're sub-.500 right now, albeit at the top of their division. And the Mariners won 88 games last year, leading them to make a big trade for that one last player to push them over the top. A look at their pythagorean tells you they weren't that close after all.

[rcrook]

personally i think mike scoscia is the best manager in baseball, a little bit of a homer call but he coaches the angels like an NL team and a lot of AL teams get caught off guard by that.

[Scott Weber]

mike scoscia is a great manager, without question. i've always been a big fan.

[whatdoiget000]

personally i think mike scoscia is the best manager in baseball, a little bit of a homer call but he coaches the angels like an NL team and a lot of AL teams get caught off guard by that.
He has to though, doesn't he? With that offense...
He's definitely a good manager, but I'd take Leyland as the best overall.

[rcrook]

leyland as best overall? let me get bigmike in here.

[xbrokendownx]

i hate scoscia cuz he always beats us but hes a damn good manager

[whatdoiget000]

leyland as best overall? let me get bigmike in here.
Eh, I would've said Torre last year.

[Scott Weber]

Leyland????

[xbrokendownx]

lolol please god let bigmike see that

[whatdoiget000]

o noes bigmike plz dont tear me a new assholes

[bigmike]

from the standpoint of overachieving, I think the managers deserve a significant amount of credit. that's really one of the critical factors that I think consistutes the manager of the year.

i'm not saying those should be the winners... but if one were a hardcore believer in pythagorean predictions, those would probably be the front-runners.
Are managers the reason clubs over achieve or is it just straight luck? Are the Twins winning because Ron Gardenhire is an absolute genius or because they have a shitty team slugging and OBP, but are hitting way above their normal production with RISP as a team?
He has to though, doesn't he? With that offense...
He's definitely a good manager, but I'd take Leyland as the best overall.
Why?
Eh, I would've said Torre last year.
Why?

[whatdoiget000]

I like that Leyland doesn't stand for any bullshit, and makes sure everyone is giving it their all all of the time. His success in multiple organizations also speaks volumes.

Torre, he's consistently had a winning record, even if it is with the Payroll. He has to control multiple huge egos and is expected to win, period.

And that I just don't see anyone else doing anything particularly special consistently outside of Scioscia.

[Scott Weber]

That is some pretty terrible reasoning.

[whatdoiget000]

That is some pretty terrible reasoning.
"Mike scoscia is the best manager in baseball, without question"
I don't disagree with you, but what's he do? Make the guys hustle? No one really knows what goes on inside the clubhouses, and I'll take the hard nosed manager that has the respect of his players, as long as he's not a bumbling idiot who mismanages the bullpen or something.

[xbrokendownx]

"Mike scoscia is the best manager in baseball, without question"
I don't disagree with you, but what's he do? Make the guys hustle? No one really knows what goes on inside the clubhouses, and I'll take the hard nosed manager that has the respect of his players, as long as he's not a bumbling idiot who mismanages the bullpen or something.




and as bigmike would tell you, that is why leyland sucks

and if you say that no one knows what goes on, why are so confident in trembley?

[Scott Weber]

"Mike scoscia is the best manager in baseball, without question"
I don't disagree with you, but what's he do? Make the guys hustle? No one really knows what goes on inside the clubhouses, and I'll take the hard nosed manager that has the respect of his players, as long as he's not a bumbling idiot who mismanages the bullpen or something.
Mike Scoscia is outstanding at tactical decisions. He handles his pitching staff extremely well, his team has a great deal of respect for him. He's made key adjustments during several injury-plagued seasons. He took over an awful team, and made them a world series winner and a constant contender, no matter what the makeup of the team or who was healthy.

Latest manager who had the respect of his players (without anything else):

John McLaren, easily one of the worst tactical managers in baseball. Respect only goes so far.

[Broken Parachute]

Willie Randolph was one of the 5 worst managers in baseball as far as I'm concerned. The Mets won every game on talent alone under him. He never said anything bad about them. Every time they were in a slump or a losing streak, he would say something like "I think we're seeing the ball really well, we're just having some bad luck" or "we're hitting it hard, just not in the right places."

I've never seen someone make so many excuses for why his team was terrible.

[rcrook]

Weebs spelled it out right there. He won us the game yesterday by using the hit and run and then a pinch runner who scored from second to home on an infield single to give us the lead. Manages the bullpen brilliantly.

[Scott Weber]

Willie Randolph was one of the 5 worst managers in baseball as far as I'm concerned. The Mets won every game on talent alone under him. He never said anything bad about them. Every time they were in a slump or a losing streak, he would say something like "I think we're seeing the ball really well, we're just having some bad luck" or "we're hitting it hard, just not in the right places."

I've never seen someone make so many excuses for why his team was terrible.
The way Randolph answered questions to the media has absolutely nothing to do with his worth as a manager. He was under a gigantic microscope and got way more blame than he ever deserved.

[Broken Parachute]

The way Randolph answered questions to the media has absolutely nothing to do with his worth as a manager. He was under a gigantic microscope and got way more blame than he ever deserved.He never made a smart decision...ever. And the way he talks to the media, especially in New York, has a lot to do with the respect he gets from the team. How can you expect to be a manager when you can't even answer a question on why your team is doing so poorly?

[rcrook]

George Bush answers questions like Willie Randolph and he is still a good president.;-)

[Scott Weber]

He never made a smart decision...ever. And the way he talks to the media, especially in New York, has a lot to do with the respect he gets from the team. How can you expect to be a manager when you can't even answer a question on why your team is doing so poorly?
That's fucking retarded, absolutely retarded. Is Girardi a shit manager because he refused to answer questions when he was pissed last week? Randolph doesn't owe it to anybody to oblige the media and give them more shit to talk about him.

[Scott Weber]

that was harsher than it needed to be, sorry. i've just never felt baseball players and managers owe the media anything after how they treat them on a daily basis.

[rcrook]

seriously a-rod owes nothing to them but he still responds with class

[Broken Parachute]

That's fucking retarded, absolutely retarded. Is Girardi a shit manager because he refused to answer questions when he was pissed last week? Randolph doesn't owe it to anybody to oblige the media and give them more shit to talk about him.I didn't say that was the reason why he's a shit manager!

I'm not even going to argue this with you, it's going to go nowhere and you don't see Met games that often so you have no clue what I'm talking about.

[Scott Weber]

i agree, let's drop it.

[bigmike]

I like that Leyland doesn't stand for any bullshit, and makes sure everyone is giving it their all all of the time. His success in multiple organizations also speaks volumes.

Torre, he's consistently had a winning record, even if it is with the Payroll. He has to control multiple huge egos and is expected to win, period.

And that I just don't see anyone else doing anything particularly special consistently outside of Scioscia.
Jim Leyland is a sub .500 manager for his career. FACT. World Series title came with a team that got him Gary Sheffield at age 28, Moises Alou at age 30, and Bobby Bonilla at age 34 (a.k.a. some of their better times of their careers) and a pitching staff led by a healthy Kevin Brown that was bolstered by an electric 22 year old Livan Hernandez. Add in a dominant back end of the bullpen in Dennis Cook, Jay Powell and Robb Nenn and you should win the world series.

Weird how there was the fire sale and Leyland couldn't get the 98 Marlins to "overachieve" which you would think such a great manager would be able to do. They hit rock bottom with a 54-108 season.

In Pittsburgh he had one of the generations best players ever in Barry Bonds. Funny how Bonds became a full time player in 1987 and the Pirates win total jumped from 64 up to 80 and then 85 in 1988. Then Bonds leaves for the 1993 season for SF and the Pirates go 75-87, 53-61, 58-86, 73-89 over the next four seasons before Leyland finally quit.

In Detroit: 2006 saw a dominant bullpen led by Fernando Rodney and Joel Zumaya. A full season from one of the best pitching prospects at the time in Justin Verlander, a finally healthy Magglio Ordonez AND Carlos Guillen. Career years from Brandon Inge and Craig Monroe bolstered what was one of the best and most productive bottom 3rd of a lineup in the majors that year.

2007 gave him what was most likely going to be Curtis Granderson's career peak hitting wise. Magglio Ordonez had an MVP-caliber season. But regressions to the mean from Brandon Inge, Craig Monroe (until he got DFA'd and then subsequently traded), as well as Leyland continually running Sean Casey out there every single day to post a paultry .296/.353/.393 line as your 1st baseman dragged the record down.

Not to mention that he is the one that pushed for Andrew Miller to be up when everyone in the fan base knew he wasn't ready. He also told him to drop his change up and work exclusively with the fastball/slider becasue he "had to contribute to the pennant race" and then he abandonded the mechanics he had been working on to keep him from throwing so far across his body.

If he was such a great manager? Wouldn't he over come all of these things? Wouldn't Brandon Inge have continued to flourish in 2007? Wouldn't Craig Monroe have continued to show impressive power instead of now being a platoon partner for the Minnesota Twins outfield?

As for Joe Torre: He was a perennial loser everywhere he had managed before the Yankees. Funny how getting to New York and being handed a futuer hall of fame shortstop, a huge payroll, and some of the best offenses in the last 30 years (never scored less than 871 more than once and had an offense that scored 965 runs in 1998 and topped 900 runs 4 times and 880 runs 6 times) and given Roger Clemens on roids that championships come calling. So weird.

[Scott Weber]

hammer.

[whatdoiget000]

Jim Leyland is a sub .500 manager for his career. FACT. World Series title came with a team that got him Gary Sheffield at age 28, Moises Alou at age 30, and Bobby Bonilla at age 34 (a.k.a. some of their better times of their careers) and a pitching staff led by a healthy Kevin Brown that was bolstered by an electric 22 year old Livan Hernandez. Add in a dominant back end of the bullpen in Dennis Cook, Jay Powell and Robb Nenn and you should win the world series.

Weird how there was the fire sale and Leyland couldn't get the 98 Marlins to "overachieve" which you would think such a great manager would be able to do. They hit rock bottom with a 54-108 season.

In Pittsburgh he had one of the generations best players ever in Barry Bonds. Funny how Bonds became a full time player in 1987 and the Pirates win total jumped from 64 up to 80 and then 85 in 1988. Then Bonds leaves for the 1993 season for SF and the Pirates go 75-87, 53-61, 58-86, 73-89 over the next four seasons before Leyland finally quit.

In Detroit: 2006 saw a dominant bullpen led by Fernando Rodney and Joel Zumaya. A full season from one of the best pitching prospects at the time in Justin Verlander, a finally healthy Magglio Ordonez AND Carlos Guillen. Career years from Brandon Inge and Craig Monroe bolstered what was one of the best and most productive bottom 3rd of a lineup in the majors that year.

2007 gave him what was most likely going to be Curtis Granderson's career peak hitting wise. Magglio Ordonez had an MVP-caliber season. But regressions to the mean from Brandon Inge, Craig Monroe (until he got DFA'd and then subsequently traded), as well as Leyland continually running Sean Casey out there every single day to post a paultry .296/.353/.393 line as your 1st baseman dragged the record down.

Not to mention that he is the one that pushed for Andrew Miller to be up when everyone in the fan base knew he wasn't ready. He also told him to drop his change up and work exclusively with the fastball/slider becasue he "had to contribute to the pennant race" and then he abandonded the mechanics he had been working on to keep him from throwing so far across his body.

If he was such a great manager? Wouldn't he over come all of these things? Wouldn't Brandon Inge have continued to flourish in 2007? Wouldn't Craig Monroe have continued to show impressive power instead of now being a platoon partner for the Minnesota Twins outfield?

As for Joe Torre: He was a perennial loser everywhere he had managed before the Yankees. Funny how getting to New York and being handed a futuer hall of fame shortstop, a huge payroll, and some of the best offenses in the last 30 years (never scored less than 871 more than once and had an offense that scored 965 runs in 1998 and topped 900 runs 4 times and 880 runs 6 times) and given Roger Clemens on roids that championships come calling. So weird.

True, Leyland is a sub .500 manager, but only by about 15 games. This includes the season after the firesale as Marlins skipper and 4 with the Pirates after they let all their players walk (it wasn't just Bonds). But he's got the team playing hard, and that's the manager's job. To do the best with the players he's given. You can discredit any manager's record by talking about the players he's had. A manager does not play a big role in a team's record. Shit, you can discredit Scoscia for having Vlad, Hunter, Lackey, K-Rod etc. I really don't think the manager matters at all unless you're Dusty Baker and destroying Mark Prior's and Kerry Wood's careers by having them throw 160 pitches a night or Sam Perlozzo being completely incapable of managing a bullpen.

[xbrokendownx]

being sub .500 is the definition of not good.

[whatdoiget000]

Yes, because he actually played in those games. Ask Prior and Wood what they think of Dusty Baker and his .525 winning percentage. The guy who batted Corey Patterson and his career .293 OBP leadoff because of his speed. Sure, he managed some successful teams, but it sure as hell wasn't his doing.

[xbrokendownx]

i could care less about dusty baker, thats not who is in question in this debate

[whatdoiget000]

Ok, ignore the point I'm making.

[xbrokendownx]

the point you made is "oh, hes only a few games under .500"

when you lose more games than you win, it means youre not good. ESPECIALLY over the amount of time that leyland has managed

[bigmike]

True, Leyland is a sub .500 manager, but only by about 15 games. This includes the season after the firesale as Marlins skipper and 4 with the Pirates after they let all their players walk (it wasn't just Bonds). But he's got the team playing hard, and that's the manager's job. To do the best with the players he's given. You can discredit any manager's record by talking about the players he's had. A manager does not play a big role in a team's record. Shit, you can discredit Scoscia for having Vlad, Hunter, Lackey, K-Rod etc. I really don't think the manager matters at all unless you're Dusty Baker and destroying Mark Prior's and Kerry Wood's careers by having them throw 160 pitches a night or Sam Perlozzo being completely incapable of managing a bullpen.
So basically managers are inconsequential, then. Which is the real point that any of this discussion should yield to.

[whatdoiget000]

the point you made is "oh, hes only a few games under .500"

when you lose more games than you win, it means youre not good. ESPECIALLY over the amount of time that leyland has managed
Not at all. A manager has little to do with the outcome of the game. By your logic, Dusty Baker is a great manager. Nevermind that he hopped from contenders, while Leyland stayed on as skipper of the Pirates after Bonds, Bonilla, Drabek, and other walked and to manage the Marlins when they traded their team away.

[whatdoiget000]

So basically managers are inconsequential, then. Which is the real point that any of this discussion should yield to.
Basically, but also that their primary role is to keep players motivated and pitchers protected. Particularly young developing players and aging, burned out vets.

[Scott Weber]

motivational, "clubhouse guy" managers are by in large much more unsuccessful than smart, tactical managers.

[whatdoiget000]

motivational, "clubhouse guy" managers are by in large much more unsuccessful than smart, tactical managers.
Tactical managers that do what exactly? I'm talking AL by the way, not NL where there is a lot more to do.

[Scott Weber]

Tactical managers that do what exactly? I'm talking AL by the way, not NL where there is a lot more to do.
Create lineups that make sense, play the best players, and not "trusty vets," manage their bullpen, etc. You know...baseball.

[whatdoiget000]

Most of that is common sense...nothing that would take a smart, tactical manager to figure out
And yet Baker does none of that...

[LeftWideOpen]

Create lineups that make sense, play the best players, and not "trusty vets," manage their bullpen, etc. You know...baseball.

blasphemy. all that matters is the players. anyone on a message board w/ a little baseball knowledge could manage a major league team and do just as good of a job.

/sarcastic rant.

the "manager is meaningless" bullshit bothers me. yes, for the most part, their roles are overblown (with media and the fans) due to their natural position of savior/scapegoat for the organization .. but a bad manager can seriously fuck up a team and a great manager can make the tactical decisions and adjustments that can make the difference between being an average team or a good team (see: mike scioscia). putting players in the position where they can excel the most and utilize their talents (whether that be in the batting order, with bullpen matchups, on the basepaths, substitutions, etc.) and being able to exercise good judgment is what makes a great manager. to act like thats a merely a formality is reckless.

a manager won't make the difference between a 70 win team and a 95 win team, but to ignore the fact that they sometimes make decisions that influence outcomes is plain ignorance.

[bigmike]

Managers don't make the difference between a 70 and a 95 win team. They make the difference between a 95 and 97 win team.

[LeftWideOpen]

Managers don't make the difference between a 70 and a 95 win team. They make the difference between a 95 and 97 win team.

I think that may be underestimating it, though. I don't think its a stretch to estimate a 4 or 5 game swing ... and sometimes that means the difference between a playoff team and a team who fell just short.

managers arent as important as the gm's, scouts or players ... but they do make a difference. i think thats especially the case if a team plays a lot of 1 run games and late-inning matchups become critical.

[bigmike]

I think that may be underestimating it, though. I don't think its a stretch to estimate a 4 or 5 game swing ... and sometimes that means the difference between a playoff team and a team who fell just short.

managers arent as important as the gm's, scouts or players ... but they do make a difference. i think thats especially the case if a team plays a lot of 1 run games and late-inning matchups become critical.
Does Mike Sciosciaget credit for turning it over Arredondo/Sheilds/K-Rod in 1 run games, though? Or McLaren last year going to Morrow/Putz? Or Francona with Okajima (obviously not in his 07 form but it's not like he's Eric Gagne or something) and then Papelbon?

Unless you're talking 5th/6th innings (when, most likely the starter would still be in the game) I don't find matchups (especially in the AL) to be that difficult.

For me, good managers make the most difference with mediocre or bad teams. because they don't have the Arredondo/Shields/K-Rod back end to rely on. Or offenses like the Red Sox to rely on to pick up the shoddy pitching.

On the whole, I think managers directly win/lose somewhere around 2-4 games. I bitch about Jim Leyland's moves A TON, but honestly, he's probably lost the Tigers 2 games, MAYBE 3.

[thatsignant]

AL MVP: Josh Hamilton
NL MVP: Hanley Ramirez

AL CY Young: Ervin Santana
NL CY Young: Danny Haren

(My rookie picks were based on then never playing in the Majors before this year)
AL ROY: Evan Longoria
NL ROY: Blake DeWitt

AL Reliever of the Year: Francisco Rodriguez
NL Reliever of the Year: Kerry Wood

AL Manager of the Year: Joe Madden
NL Manager of the Year: Tony LaRussa


Kerry Wood has 5 blown saves in the first half

[bigmike]

Kerry Wood has 5 blown saves in the first half
And 2 since May 2nd where he's posted 2.05 ERA, 30.2 IP, 42 K, 10 BB, and a opponent hitters vital of .202/.282/.294 in that time frame.

[xbrokendownx]

LOL @ anyone giving the reliever of the year award to KRod over Rivera

KRod's stats: 2.36 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 38 saves, 41 K, 26 BB in 42.0 IP
Rivera's stats: 1.06 ERA, 0.64 WHIP, 23 saves, 50 K, 4 BB in 42.1 IP

Rivera has allowed 27 baserunners to KRod's 53

[Scott Weber]

fuck k-rod, why won't ANYBODY talk about Joe Nathan? So underappreciated.

[xbrokendownx]

ya Nathan has better numbers than him too

[bigmike]

fuck k-rod, why won't ANYBODY talk about Joe Nathan? So underappreciated.
Truth. If I'm taking 1 closer for a team, I'm taking Joe Nathan.

[thatsignant]

And 2 since May 2nd where he's posted 2.05 ERA, 30.2 IP, 42 K, 10 BB, and a opponent hitters vital of .202/.282/.294 in that time frame.

Wood: 3.02 ERA, 24/29 Saves, 55 K's, 13 BB's, 1.01 WHIP

Lidge: 1.13 ERA, 20/20 Saves, 55 K's, 19 BB's, 1.13 WHIP

Wagner: 2.31 ERA, 22/28 Saves, 45 K's, 9 BB's, 0.95 WHIP

I'd say theres a case for any of these three to be reliever of the year

[xbrokendownx]

no WAY is billy wagner the reliever of the year

[Scott Weber]

Wood: 3.02 ERA, 24/29 Saves, 55 K's, 13 BB's, 1.01 WHIP

Lidge: 1.13 ERA, 20/20 Saves, 55 K's, 19 BB's, 1.13 WHIP

Wagner: 2.31 ERA, 22/28 Saves, 45 K's, 9 BB's, 0.95 WHIP

I'd say theres a case for any of these three to be reliever of the year
22/28 saves for Wagner automatically eliminates him for me, I don't care how good he is when he's saving games successfully, his meltdowns have cost his team immensely.

[thatsignant]

22/28 saves for Wagner automatically eliminates him for me, I don't care how good he is when he's saving games successfully, his meltdowns have cost his team immensely.

I basically put him up there because of his K/BB Ratio and WHIP

[bigmike]

Wood: 3.02 ERA, 24/29 Saves, 55 K's, 13 BB's, 1.01 WHIP

Lidge: 1.13 ERA, 20/20 Saves, 55 K's, 19 BB's, 1.13 WHIP

Wagner: 2.31 ERA, 22/28 Saves, 45 K's, 9 BB's, 0.95 WHIP

I'd say theres a case for any of these three to be reliever of the year
So, you don't think Wood should get it because of his 5 blown saves, then try to make the case for Wagner and his 6 blown saves? Is it hard talking from both sides of the mouth?

And all Brad Lidges numbers tell me are that he allows more baserunners per inning than Kerry Wood -- his save percentage aside. Cool.

Wood > Lidge (slightly, I'm a Lidge fan and have been one even since that Pujols HR he rocked a few years back) >>>>>>> Wagner.

[kshtoinks12]

LOL @ anyone giving the reliever of the year award to KRod over Rivera

KRod's stats: 2.36 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 38 saves, 41 K, 26 BB in 42.0 IP
Rivera's stats: 1.06 ERA, 0.64 WHIP, 23 saves, 50 K, 4 BB in 42.1 IP

Rivera has allowed 27 baserunners to KRod's 53
Don't forget
3 Blown saves
0 Blown saves

[thatsignant]

So, you don't think Wood should get it because of his 5 blown saves, then try to make the case for Wagner and his 6 blown saves? Is it hard talking from both sides of the mouth?

And all Brad Lidges numbers tell me are that he allows more baserunners per inning than Kerry Wood -- his save percentage aside. Cool.

Wood > Lidge (slightly, I'm a Lidge fan and have been one even since that Pujols HR he rocked a few years back) >>>>>>> Wagner.

Nah I just figured if Wood was going to be in the argument with 5 blown I might as well throw Wagner in there with 6. All of Wagners stats are better than Wood besides the blown saves.

[rcrook]

krod is by no means the best closer in baseball. he benefits from a team that doesn't score or give up a lot of runs and are often in the 9th inning with a 2 or 3 run lead. that is where he gets all of his saves, the amount of times ive seen him get a 1-2-3 9th for a save has been minimal this year. always guys on base because of hits, walks, wild pitches.

[Chris M.]

some more awards

Warren Spahn Award: Cliff Lee - honorable mention: John Danks, Joe Saunders, Johan Santana, Cole Hamels, Jon Lester

Hank Aaron Award
AL - Ian Kinsler - honorable mention: Josh Hamilton, Justin Morneau, Grady Sizemore, Kevin Youkilis
NL - Lance Berkamn - honorable mention: Chipper Jones, Chase Utley, Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes

Rolaids Relief Man
AL - Mariano Rivera - honorable mention: Joe Nathan, Joakim Soria, Francisco Rodriguez
NL - Brad Lidge - honorable mention: Kerry Wood, Billy Wagner, Brandon Lyon

[kbauer]

Jim Leyland is a sub .500 manager for his career. FACT. World Series title came with a team that got him Gary Sheffield at age 28, Moises Alou at age 30, and Bobby Bonilla at age 34 (a.k.a. some of their better times of their careers) and a pitching staff led by a healthy Kevin Brown that was bolstered by an electric 22 year old Livan Hernandez. Add in a dominant back end of the bullpen in Dennis Cook, Jay Powell and Robb Nenn and you should win the world series.

Weird how there was the fire sale and Leyland couldn't get the 98 Marlins to "overachieve" which you would think such a great manager would be able to do. They hit rock bottom with a 54-108 season.

In Pittsburgh he had one of the generations best players ever in Barry Bonds. Funny how Bonds became a full time player in 1987 and the Pirates win total jumped from 64 up to 80 and then 85 in 1988. Then Bonds leaves for the 1993 season for SF and the Pirates go 75-87, 53-61, 58-86, 73-89 over the next four seasons before Leyland finally quit.

In Detroit: 2006 saw a dominant bullpen led by Fernando Rodney and Joel Zumaya. A full season from one of the best pitching prospects at the time in Justin Verlander, a finally healthy Magglio Ordonez AND Carlos Guillen. Career years from Brandon Inge and Craig Monroe bolstered what was one of the best and most productive bottom 3rd of a lineup in the majors that year.

2007 gave him what was most likely going to be Curtis Granderson's career peak hitting wise. Magglio Ordonez had an MVP-caliber season. But regressions to the mean from Brandon Inge, Craig Monroe (until he got DFA'd and then subsequently traded), as well as Leyland continually running Sean Casey out there every single day to post a paultry .296/.353/.393 line as your 1st baseman dragged the record down.

Not to mention that he is the one that pushed for Andrew Miller to be up when everyone in the fan base knew he wasn't ready. He also told him to drop his change up and work exclusively with the fastball/slider becasue he "had to contribute to the pennant race" and then he abandonded the mechanics he had been working on to keep him from throwing so far across his body.

If he was such a great manager? Wouldn't he over come all of these things? Wouldn't Brandon Inge have continued to flourish in 2007? Wouldn't Craig Monroe have continued to show impressive power instead of now being a platoon partner for the Minnesota Twins outfield?

As for Joe Torre: He was a perennial loser everywhere he had managed before the Yankees. Funny how getting to New York and being handed a futuer hall of fame shortstop, a huge payroll, and some of the best offenses in the last 30 years (never scored less than 871 more than once and had an offense that scored 965 runs in 1998 and topped 900 runs 4 times and 880 runs 6 times) and given Roger Clemens on roids that championships come calling. So weird.


Owned.

[tplmarc]

Yes, the team that was supposed to lose 100+ games that is hanging around .500 and he still controls the clubhouse after the disasters he replaced. You can argue for Joe Maddon, and I can appreciate the job he's done. But a lot of projections had the Rays winning 89-91 games before the season even began.

Yeah so even if maddon doesn't deserve it, which if the rays can make the playoffs he does. Trembly doesn't deserve it.

A.L. MVP - Josh Hamilton
N.L. MVP - Lance Berkman

A.L. Cy Young - Cliff Lee
N.L. Cy Young - Brandon Webb

A.L. Rookie of the Year - Evan Longoria
N.L. Rookie of the Year - Geovany Soto

A.L. - Manager of the Year - Joe Maddon
N.L. - Manager of the Year - (if the mets make the playoffs) Jerry Manuel hands down.

[xbrokendownx]

jerry manuel? ugh..

[thatsignant]

Yeah so even if maddon doesn't deserve it, which if the rays can make the playoffs he does. Trembly doesn't deserve it.

A.L. MVP - Josh Hamilton
N.L. MVP - Lance Berkman

A.L. Cy Young - Cliff Lee
N.L. Cy Young - Brandon Webb

A.L. Rookie of the Year - Evan Longoria
N.L. Rookie of the Year - Geovany Soto

A.L. - Manager of the Year - Joe Maddon
N.L. - Manager of the Year - (if the mets make the playoffs) Jerry Manuel hands down.

You have a better chance of seeing Wright as NL MVP if Mets make the playoffs, the team was underachieving all season, Manuel has benefited from them playing well of late

[BuriedAlive]

LOL @ anyone giving the reliever of the year award to KRod over Rivera

KRod's stats: 2.36 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 38 saves, 41 K, 26 BB in 42.0 IP
Rivera's stats: 1.06 ERA, 0.64 WHIP, 23 saves, 50 K, 4 BB in 42.1 IP

Rivera has allowed 27 baserunners to KRod's 53

The reason I gave it to K-Rod is because with 38 saves at the all-star break is pretty remarkable. Only 10 Closers over the last two years have saved more than him (38) over the entire season. Granted he really only gets put into the game when he has the opportunity to get the save (Unlike Rivera and even Nathan). Even with K-Rod's 53 batters on base he's only allowed 11 to cross the plate.

Shrug. He was my pick not yours. hah. We will always agree to disagree!


Side Note:
The Yankees STILL managed to lose 3 of Rivera's games (One was a walk off).

[Nimrod5]

Truth. If I'm taking 1 closer for a team, I'm taking Joe Nathan.

for one season? you are nuts if you take anyone over rivera. i do agree with you that nathan is terribly underrated, and i think he's the best behind rivera.

[Nimrod5]

The reason I gave it to K-Rod is because with 38 saves at the all-star break is pretty remarkable. Only 10 Closers over the last two years have saved more than him (38) over the entire season. Granted he really only gets put into the game when he has the opportunity to get the save (Unlike Rivera and even Nathan). Even with K-Rod's 53 batters on base he's only allowed 11 to cross the plate.

Shrug. He was my pick not yours. hah. We will always agree to disagree!


Side Note:
The Yankees STILL managed to lose 3 of Rivera's games (One was a walk off).

k-rod for reliever of the year at mid-season mark? haha that is laughable.

[aloneatlastnj]

i wonder if this kid is a yankees fan - you know, of the typical homer variety.

[Chris M.]

for one season? you are nuts if you take anyone over rivera. i do agree with you that nathan is terribly underrated, and i think he's the best behind rivera.

you've also got to remember that Rivera is nearly 39 years old and is nearing the end of his career, while Nathan is still 34 and likely has more quality years left in him.

[Nimrod5]

AL MVP - hamilton
NL MVP - berkman

AL Cy Young - duchscherer
NL Cy Young - volquez

AL Rookie of the year - longoria
NL Rookie of the year - soto

AL manager of the year - maddon
NL manager of the year - la russa

AL Reliever of the year - rivera
NL Reliever of the year - lidge

[pand75]

A.L. MVP - Josh Hamilton
N.L. MVP - Chase Utley

A.L. Cy Young - Roy Halladay
N.L. Cy Young - Edison Volquez

A.L. Rookie of the Year - Evan Longoria
N.L. Rookie of the Year - Geovany Soto

A.L. - Manager of the Year - Joe Maddon
N.L. - Manager of the Year - Fredi Gonzalez (Marlins are one of the biggest surprises this year)

[Scott Weber]

for one season? you are nuts if you take anyone over rivera. i do agree with you that nathan is terribly underrated, and i think he's the best behind rivera.
Um.....you said one season. Not him.

[aloneatlastnj]

aloneatlastnj - if your post was directed towards me, i'm a mets fan. you need to be a fan "of the typical homer variety" to realize the type of season rivera is having?

no, but to not acknowledge the accomplishments of joe nathan is just absurd. and you came across as a yankee homer because you're worshiping mo's jock more than the yankees regulars around here, myself included.

[Nimrod5]

no, but to not acknowledge the accomplishments of joe nathan is just absurd. and you came across as a yankee homer because you're worshiping mo's jock more than the yankees regulars around here, myself included.

you should probably read my post again

[bigmike]

for one season? you are nuts if you take anyone over rivera. i do agree with you that nathan is terribly underrated, and i think he's the best behind rivera.
I must have missed where I put in the implication of taking him over Rivera for just one season. i don't believe that I ever said that. Thanks for the whole put-your-words-in-my-post thing, though!

[Nimrod5]

I must have missed where I put in the implication of taking him over Rivera for just one season. i don't believe that I ever said that. Thanks for the whole put-your-words-in-my-post thing, though!

if you meant over the long run, sorry for implying that then. anyway, i agree with you that nathan's hugely underrated.

[LeftWideOpen]

bump.

where the fuck is whatdoiget? I'd like to know if he still thinks a team 5 games under .500 and 10th in the AL deserves to have their manager awarded?