Mayfield released, Patriot Act rears its ugly head

[davedesloover18]

The guy that was arrested and held without being told what for was released a few days ago, and now his accusations are retracted.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040525_191.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/05/24/spain.bombings.lawyer.ap/index.html
and for you conservatives that complain of bias:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120783,00.html

They confiscated "spanish papers" that were his son's spanish homework...give me a break. This is pathetic on the FBI's part.

This is a glaring example of why the Patriot Act is a bad thing, and why sacrificing liberties for safety is wrong.

[open mind]

patriot act sucks, and i hope mayfield ends up winning millions in court.

[yeat182]

he won't win millions because he wasn't arrested. he was held as a material witness.

and this has nothing to do with the patriot act, it is a reflection on poor police work by the FBI.

[davedesloover18]

there's where you're wrong

"Under a provision of the U.S. Patriot Act, agents entered his home but mistakenly locked and bolted the door on their way out. The family uses only the lock below the bolt, and they became suspicious."

and he was arrested, then released on friday
next time, know what you're talking about

[yeat182]

there's where you're wrong

"Under a provision of the U.S. Patriot Act, agents entered his home but mistakenly locked and bolted the door on their way out. The family uses only the lock below the bolt, and they became suspicious."

and he was arrested, then released on friday
next time, know what you're talking about

he was held as a material witness:

"The apology Monday came hours after a judge dismissed the case against Brandon Mayfield (search), who had been held as a material witness in the Madrid (search) bombings case, which killed 191 people and injured about 2,000 others. "

[yeat182]

also, just because the case involved the use of the patriot act, doesn't reflect poorly on the act itself. like i said, it reflects poor police work.

[davedesloover18]

yes, but you said he wasn't arrested, he was. it was against his will, and held in jail without due process

[davedesloover18]

also, just because the case involved the use of the patriot act, doesn't reflect poorly on the act itself. like i said, it reflects poor police work.
poor police work, plus the ability to search without a warrant or notification

[yeat182]

yes, but you said he wasn't arrested, he was. it was against his will, and held in jail without due process

most times when you are "arrested", you are held against your will.

[xnotedgex]

most times when you are "arrested", you are held against your will.

but you said he wasn't arrested...make up your mind

[sweetsugar]

YOu can never tell with these things...maybe he was guilty. Maybe he wasn't, that's why they took him in.

[xnotedgex]

YOu can never tell with these things...maybe he was guilty. Maybe he wasn't, that's why they took him in.

when there's absolutely no evidence to indicate he's guilty that should be a pretty strong indication

[sweetsugar]

when there's absolutely no evidence to indicate he's guilty that should be a pretty strong indication
Yeah, your probably right.

Maybe he had that, suspicious look about himself, kinda like Senor Cardgage.

[venus/bacchus]

This case has very little to do with the Patriot Act. The only thing the Patriot Act gave the FBI the power to do was search the house (which I'm not saying is right). With a matching fingerprint, and corroboration from an FBI fingerprint expert, he'd be detained long before the Patriot Act. The FBI fingerprint lab still maintains 100% accuracy in equating his print to the one found in Spain. So with that kind of evidence, he would have been taken into custody even without the Patriot Act.

[cal1082]

he won't win millions because he wasn't arrested. he was held as a material witness.

and this has nothing to do with the patriot act, it is a reflection on poor police work by the FBI.

I was going to ask if the Patriot is what opened the door for people to be held as a material witness, or was this possible before the patriot act?

[yeat182]

but you said he wasn't arrested...make up your mind

hence the quotations. (i would also add that being held as a material witness is most often against your will, i imagine.)

[yeat182]

This case has very little to do with the Patriot Act. The only thing the Patriot Act gave the FBI the power to do was search the house (which I'm not saying is right). With a matching fingerprint, and corroboration from an FBI fingerprint expert, he'd be detained long before the Patriot Act. The FBI fingerprint lab still maintains 100% accuracy in equating his print to the one found in Spain. So with that kind of evidence, he would have been taken into custody even without the Patriot Act.

thank you.

[Sinister Rouge]

The Patriot Act is clearly unconstitutional and it hurts a lot more innocents (Muslims especially) than potential terrorists.

[cal1082]

The Patriot Act is clearly unconstitutional and it hurts a lot more innocents (Muslims especially) than potential terrorists.

that's a blanket statement with no evidence to back that claim up.

[yeat182]

The Patriot Act is clearly unconstitutional and it hurts a lot more innocents (Muslims especially) than potential terrorists.


that is a myth.

[open mind]

that's a blanket statement with no evidence to back that claim up.
your a fucking degenerate ( i used to think you had a brain but you must have shit that out a few days ago or something ) there's evidence all over the place that the patriot act infringes on our constitutional rights if you bother to look for it

[open mind]

that is a myth.
speaking of blanket statements with no evidence to back them up...........

[cal1082]

your a fucking degenerate ( i used to think you had a brain but you must have shit that out a few days ago or something ) there's evidence all over the place that the patriot act infringes on our constitutional rights if you bother to look for it

One sec. let me explain the point I was referring to as a blanket statement before you start tossing the f-bomb (to late for that i guess). I was referring to the part where he said, "it hurts a lot more innocents (Muslims especially) than potential terrorists." I'm not for repealling the patriot act, but i dont mind them looking at it and finding out what parts are unconstituional and i'll leave that part up to the supreme court. Not to long ago they did over turn a piece in the act that said it was unconstitutional.

[open mind]

okay sorry about that then.
the patriot act has so many problems it should be scrapped entirely, then they should put a seperate bill together that puts the constitutional parts back into law, in my view

[yeat182]

i was refering to the same statement as cal.

[open mind]

i wonder what the numbers are on the ratio of people being investigated with the use of new liberties given to law enforcement through the patriot act, and the convictions those investigations have brought.

[yeat182]

i wonder what the number of terrorists attacks/operations thwarted vs. the number of innocent people that have been inconvienced are.

[open mind]

give me liberty or give me death.

[yeat182]

"All men are born equally free. The rights they posses at birth are equal and of the same kind...Each individual surrenders the power of controlling his alienable rights only when the good of the whole requires it..."

[open mind]

and through the patriot act i think the good of the whole is more negativly affected then it is positivly.

[xnotedgex]

i wonder what the number of terrorists attacks/operations thwarted vs. the number of innocent people that have been inconvienced are.

thanks to the patriot act, we, as american citizens, don't have a right to know anything about how the patriot act is being used

[xnotedgex]

This case has very little to do with the Patriot Act. The only thing the Patriot Act gave the FBI the power to do was search the house (which I'm not saying is right). With a matching fingerprint, and corroboration from an FBI fingerprint expert, he'd be detained long before the Patriot Act. The FBI fingerprint lab still maintains 100% accuracy in equating his print to the one found in Spain. So with that kind of evidence, he would have been taken into custody even without the Patriot Act.

where and how did they obtain his fingerprint? please tell me how you have this insight as to how the fbi proceeded with this investigation

clearly you have no insight, otherwise you would know he was detained after his house was searched.

also, the fingerprint has been linked to a moroccan i believe, not him

[yeat182]

it was fairly well known that they searched his house based on a fingerprint they found in madrid, which matched (apparently incorrectly) his which was in the FBI database because of a burglary charge he faced when he was a teenager.

[venus/bacchus]

where and how did they obtain his fingerprint? please tell me how you have this insight as to how the fbi proceeded with this investigation

clearly you have no insight, otherwise you would know he was detained after his house was searched.

also, the fingerprint has been linked to a moroccan i believe, not him
Clearly I have no insight...

"The attorney was taken away by FBI agents on May 6 when federal officials incorrectly matched his fingerprint to one found on a bag of detonators in a train station near Madrid." - ABC News

"FBI officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, had said that Mayfield's fingerprint matched one found on a bag of detonators near the train station in Madrid..." - CNN

"The case began when FBI fingerprint examiners in Quantico, Va., searched for possible matches to a digital image of a fingerprint found on a bag of detonators the day of the Spanish bombings on March 11.

The system returned 15 possible matches, including prints belonging to Mayfield, on file from a 1984 burglary arrest in Wichita, Kan., when Mayfield was a teenager.

Three separate FBI examiners narrowed the identification to Mayfield, according to Robert Jordan, the FBI agent in charge of Oregon. A court-appointed fingerprint expert agreed." - FOX News

Why would they search his house at random? They had a fingerprint that the FBI still "...stands by their conclusion of a 100 percent positive identification". They came up with 15 possiblities, and he was a potential suspect, possibly because he supported an admitted al-Qaeda supporter in a court case. As much as you'd like to think, this isn't a government conspiracy. They've apologized for the improper identification, let's move on.

[davedesloover18]

easy for you to say, tell that to Mayfield

[xnotedgex]

Clearly I have no insight...

"The attorney was taken away by FBI agents on May 6 when federal officials incorrectly matched his fingerprint to one found on a bag of detonators in a train station near Madrid." - ABC News

"FBI officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, had said that Mayfield's fingerprint matched one found on a bag of detonators near the train station in Madrid..." - CNN

"The case began when FBI fingerprint examiners in Quantico, Va., searched for possible matches to a digital image of a fingerprint found on a bag of detonators the day of the Spanish bombings on March 11.

The system returned 15 possible matches, including prints belonging to Mayfield, on file from a 1984 burglary arrest in Wichita, Kan., when Mayfield was a teenager.

Three separate FBI examiners narrowed the identification to Mayfield, according to Robert Jordan, the FBI agent in charge of Oregon. A court-appointed fingerprint expert agreed." - FOX News

Why would they search his house at random? They had a fingerprint that the FBI still "...stands by their conclusion of a 100 percent positive identification". They came up with 15 possiblities, and he was a potential suspect, possibly because he supported an admitted al-Qaeda supporter in a court case. As much as you'd like to think, this isn't a government conspiracy. They've apologized for the improper identification, let's move on.

I was asking how they obtained his fingerprint to match it to that on the bag...I really didn't know. How can they stand by their conclusion 100% when he's been released and apologized too...its not his fingerprint!!

No one is saying anything about a conspiracy...its abuse of power...its a violation of civil rights

And he didn't "support an admitted al-Qaeda supporter"...he was the guy's attorney in a domestic case I thinkit was,something totally unrelated to terrorism anyway

[venus/bacchus]

I was asking how they obtained his fingerprint to match it to that on the bag...I really didn't know. How can they stand by their conclusion 100% when he's been released and apologized too...its not his fingerprint!!

No one is saying anything about a conspiracy...its abuse of power...its a violation of civil rights

And he didn't "support an admitted al-Qaeda supporter"...he was the guy's attorney in a domestic case I thinkit was,something totally unrelated to terrorism anyway
I don't know how they obtained it. I imagine it's the same way they obtain almost all fingerprints, dusting or whatever. The FOX news article said that the print could have been matched to 15 people in the world. It might have only been a partial fingerprint, but whatever the FBI had, he fit.

And I fail to see how it's abuse of power, or a violation of civil rights. With that sort of evidence against him, he would have been apprehended no matter what legislation was available.

And yes, I worded that last part wrong. I was just offering possible ways that he fit some sort of description, or reason as to suspect that his fingerprint could have been one of the 15.

[open mind]

the fingerprint the fbi had was a bad digital copy that they got from spain, spain compared the original print to mayfields and said it wasn't a match and offered to give the fbi a look at the original print but by that time the fbi was all set to fuck mayfield and didn't want to hear it, so the fbi didn't really have strong proof.
if he was a cristian lawyer instead of a muslim lawyer the fact that he represented some guy linked to terrorism for a divorce case, would't have been considered evidence.

[yeat182]

the fingerprint the fbi had was a bad digital copy that they got from spain, spain compared the original print to mayfields and said it wasn't a match and offered to give the fbi a look at the original print but by that time the fbi was all set to fuck mayfield and didn't want to hear it, so the fbi didn't really have strong proof.
if he was a cristian lawyer instead of a muslim lawyer the fact that he represented some guy linked to terrorism for a divorce case, would't have been considered evidence.


christians aren't flying planes into buildings.

[venus/bacchus]

the fingerprint the fbi had was a bad digital copy that they got from spain, spain compared the original print to mayfields and said it wasn't a match and offered to give the fbi a look at the original print but by that time the fbi was all set to fuck mayfield and didn't want to hear it, so the fbi didn't really have strong proof.
if he was a cristian lawyer instead of a muslim lawyer the fact that he represented some guy linked to terrorism for a divorce case, would't have been considered evidence.
It would make sense that the FBI would be going on a bad copy of the print...but where did you read that they were offered a better copy but said "nah, fuck it, let's dick him over anyway"? I find that a little unbelievable.

[open mind]

It would make sense that the FBI would be going on a bad copy of the print...but where did you read that they were offered a better copy but said "nah, fuck it, let's dick him over anyway"? I find that a little unbelievable.
the newspaper and no it wasn't some biased liberal paper.(up here in alaska our papers are pretty conservative, lot's of oil maoney)

[open mind]

christians are flying planes into buildings.
they are?

[sweetsugar]

christians are flying planes into buildings.
It's about time we strike back. WEEEEHOOOO

There are some way extremist christian groups, (Christian Identity)
but most of them are looked down upon by other christian groups.

These muslim extremist are crazy, barbaric, and they just suck at beeing human beeings. I mean, what those guys did to nick berg, I wouldn't even do to an animal. It was terrible, and they condone that kinda behavior, like its favored by their god.

Regular Muslims are great. It's just the extremist that are ruining the image for the rest of them, I feel bad for the Muslim world at this point.

[open mind]

well in this case a regular muslim got screwed over.

[yeat182]

they are?

sorry, typo, i mean they aren't. i'll edit it.

[yeat182]

well in this case a regular muslim got screwed over.

while he did get screwed over, his past and his actions are suspicious, whereas a "regular" muslim is not suspicious.

[xnotedgex]

while he did get screwed over, his past and his actions are suspicious, whereas a "regular" muslim is not suspicious.

what exactly about his past and his actions are suspicious?

[venus/bacchus]

the newspaper and no it wasn't some biased liberal paper.(up here in alaska our papers are pretty conservative, lot's of oil maoney)
I haven't seen that in any other articles. I wonder where they got their info.
well in this case a regular muslim got screwed over.
His beind muslim has nothing to do with his being screwed over. Trying to connect the two is almost claiming conspiracy. He was obtained almost solely on the fact that he was an American citizen whose prints (or print, I'm not sure) matched those that were found on the detonator bag. He was considered a potential suspect because he is friends/accomplices/allies/acquaintances/whatever with someone who admitted to supporting al-Qaeda. It's pretty simple. Being muslim may have been a factor, but it was a very very small one.

[xnotedgex]

I haven't seen that in any other articles. I wonder where they got their info.

His beind muslim has nothing to do with his being screwed over. Trying to connect the two is almost claiming conspiracy. He was obtained almost solely on the fact that he was an American citizen whose prints (or print, I'm not sure) matched those that were found on the detonator bag. He was considered a potential suspect because he is friends/accomplices/allies/acquaintances/whatever with someone who admitted to supporting al-Qaeda. It's pretty simple. Being muslim may have been a factor, but it was a very very small one.

the prints didn't match (according to Spanish authorities, they informed the FBI of this prior to his detainment), the guy has no personal ties to al-qaeda, he hasn't left the country in a decade...again, please tell me what led to his arrest?

[yeat182]

the prints didn't match (according to Spanish authorities, they informed the FBI of this prior to his detainment), the guy has no personal ties to al-qaeda, he hasn't left the country in a decade...again, please tell me what led to his arrest?

the FBI's computer matched his fingerprints (mistakenly), and then when they looked at his past and his dealing with organizations with terrorists ties, it obviously looked suspicious.

[xnotedgex]

the FBI's computer matched his fingerprints (mistakenly), and then when they looked at his past and his dealing with organizations with terrorists ties, it obviously looked suspicious.

what dealings with organizations with terrorist ties?

[yeat182]

As additional evidence in support of Mayfield's arrest, the FBI pointed to Mayfield's attendance at a local mosque, his advertising legal services in a publication owned by a man suspected to have links to terrorism, and a telephone call his wife placed to a branch of an Islamic charity with suspected terrorist ties.

They also noted that Mayfield represented a man in a child custody case who later pleaded guilty to conspiring to help Al Qaeda and the Taliban fight U.S. forces in Afghanistan.




this is from the fox article listed in the original post of this thread, i'll look for another from when he was originally taken in. also, i realize that none of these things are illegal and on their own shouldn't be considered suspicious, but if you have a man's fingerprints on a bomb located halfway around the world and then look up his past and see this, it is going to look suspicious.

[xnotedgex]

As additional evidence in support of Mayfield's arrest, the FBI pointed to Mayfield's attendance at a local mosque, his advertising legal services in a publication owned by a man suspected to have links to terrorism, and a telephone call his wife placed to a branch of an Islamic charity with suspected terrorist ties.

They also noted that Mayfield represented a man in a child custody case who later pleaded guilty to conspiring to help Al Qaeda and the Taliban fight U.S. forces in Afghanistan.




this is from the fox article listed in the original post of this thread, i'll look for another from when he was originally taken in. also, i realize that none of these things are illegal and on their own shouldn't be considered suspicious, but if you have a man's fingerprints on a bomb located halfway around the world and then look up his past and see this, it is going to look suspicious.

"Mayfield's attendance at a local mosque"....is this for real?? The fact he is a Muslim was used as additional evidence?? After reading that how can someone lend credence to anything that comes out of the FBI's mouth when it comes to this case

I doubt this is known but what publication was the advertising in? If I were to advertise my lemonade stand in a newspaper who's editor was a suspected communist would I then also be a suspected communist? That connection makes no sense at all.

The only remotely suspicious charge is the call to the charity with links to terrorism. I'll reserve judgement on that because I don't know anything about it.

[yeat182]

"Mayfield's attendance at a local mosque"....is this for real?? The fact he is a Muslim was used as additional evidence?? After reading that how can someone lend credence to anything that comes out of the FBI's mouth when it comes to this case

I doubt this is known but what publication was the advertising in? If I were to advertise my lemonade stand in a newspaper who's editor was a suspected communist would I then also be a suspected communist? That connection makes no sense at all.

The only remotely suspicious charge is the call to the charity with links to terrorism. I'll reserve judgement on that because I don't know anything about it.

the fact that he is muslim is important because muslim extremists are responsible for the bombings. if he wasn't muslim, he wouldn't have been a suspect. that isn't to say that all muslims are suspicious, but when coupled with the fingerprints, and other information, it is.

as for the publication, he is a converted muslim who represented a suspected terrorist is a court case and then advertised his services in a newspaper owned by a suspected terrorist. you have to add up each bit of evidence, not simply look at any one piece on its own, because you're right, simply advertising in a newspaper owned by a suspected terrorist doesn't make you guilty of anything.

[xnotedgex]

the fact that he is muslim is important because muslim extremists are responsible for the bombings. if he wasn't muslim, he wouldn't have been a suspect. that isn't to say that all muslims are suspicious, but when coupled with the fingerprints, and other information, it is.

as for the publication, he is a converted muslim who represented a suspected terrorist is a court case and then advertised his services in a newspaper owned by a suspected terrorist. you have to add up each bit of evidence, not simply look at any one piece on its own, because you're right, simply advertising in a newspaper owned by a suspected terrorist doesn't make you guilty of anything.

if he wasn't muslim he wouldn't have been a suspect? you don't see anything wrong with that at all? i guess you're ok with racial profiling too? blacks being pulled over because they're black?

you can't couple false evidence together and say that is why it was ok to arrest him...two wrongs don't make a right

he represented a suspected terrorist in a case that had absolutely nothing to do with terror...i don't see why this is repeatedly brought up..im just curious but where his legal services advertised anywhere else besides the publication that you are referring to? is there any evidence mayfield knew of the alleged connections of the owner? is there any evidence mayfield knew his client was a suspected terrorist?

[lfdfforever]

gotta love the patriot act

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[Praetor]

Fuck this.

I cannot understand why this is a good idea.

[lfdfforever]

Fuck this.

I cannot understand why this is a good idea. yeah, it's fucked up.