N!gger

[speakhandsforme]

It's a touchy subject, yes, but relevant enough to warrant a mature discussion. With the racist jargon of yesteryear still prominent today, due in large to the casual usage in African American culture, both urban and popular, what is your stance on the ever-present N-word dilemma?

Of the debated solutions, what's the better approach:
desensitizing the word (or casually reintroducing the word/trying to remove the derogatory connotation)
abolishing the word by secular persuasion
or sitting on the subject and ignoring the immediate future as is being done.


Frankly, as a white male, I don't have much investment in the subject (other than the annoyance of constantly hearing of claims to oppression by the unoppressed portion of the African American sector instead of the actual recipients) but I thought it'd still be interesting to hear some of your views.

[bung]

It's not gonna die out, at least until Quentin Tarantino croaks.

[speakhandsforme]

Well, Tarantino, in his usage of the word in his films, seems to follow the first stance. I've never found his insertion of the word into dialogue to be in an offensive manner.

[shit stroll]

terrible thread. i don't know of any person who seeks to "abolish the word by law"

[chronomic]

terrible thread. i don't know of any person who seeks to "abolish the word by law"

yeah was gonna make a comment along the same lines.

[speakhandsforme]

terrible thread. i don't know of any person who seeks to "abolish the word by law"

There are plenty of activists who want to abolish the word completely, even if it takes some kind of law. In fact, I believe one of the men was actually on the Stephen Colbert show earlier this year.

[Nevuk]

There are plenty of activists who want to abolish the word completely, even if it takes some kind of law. In fact, I believe one of the men was actually on the Stephen Colbert show earlier this year.
Yeah, and there was that southpark about it... I'm fairly sure its an extremist view, but so are half the things I peddle on this website. Anyways, it would be kind of pointless to outlaw a word.

Desensitization is kind of weird... I think the action the word has undergone so far is known as "hailing the interpolation". Which is to say, it has been taken back, much in the same way "gay" has, and other words like this (f*g, etc). In that, it is used freely within members of the community the word was intended to attack, however members outside of it who are part of the groups who used it to attack people are openly denied it, as it is in an indication of their prejudice to use it. So in a way, desensitization could be viewed as an attempt to deprive them of a word that is now in their power.

[nashiscash1324]

terrible thread. i don't know of any person who seeks to "abolish the word by law"

have you seen that south park were they abolish using the words "******" and "guy" next to each other. hilarious

[nashiscash1324]

i say use it whenever. and why does this site automatically block the word?

******

******

[shes.a.ghost]

I hate when people argue about this. If the word bothers you then don't use it. End of story. It's a negative word for anyone to use besides black people. Black people, for whatever reason, decided to take the word and use it as they please. In my opinion any other race who chooses to use it is subjecting themselves to the possibility of being called a racist. It will probably always be that way. That being said, a lot of white people use the word just the same way that black people use it, when in the comfort zone of thier own friends, but would probably never say it to a black person. Most people use it as a greeting or salutation. That's just the way it is.

[HashHolly]

I hate when people argue about this. If the word bothers you then don't use it. End of story. It's a negative word for anyone to use besides black people. Black people, for whatever reason, decided to take the word and use it as they please. In my opinion any other race who chooses to use it is subjecting themselves to the possibility of being called a racist. It will probably always be that way. That being said, a lot of white people use the word just the same way that black people use it, when in the comfort zone of thier own friends, but would probably never say it to a black person. Most people use it as a greeting or salutation. That's just the way it is.

Yes, because ALL black people think and act the same......

[HashHolly]

Oh, and since we are on the subject of offensive words, how about Cracker, and Honkie? Anyone bothered, or offended by those?

[HashHolly]

And finally, a little history of the word, brought to you by wiki, personally i find it stupid as fuck to even consider banning a word, or making it illegal to use a word:

Earlier variants (such as neger or negar) derive from the Spanish/Portuguese word negro, meaning "black", and probably also the French nègre, which has also been used pejoratively (but also positively as in Négritude), derived from negro (the ordinary French word for "black" being noir). Both negro and noir (and therefore also nègre and ******) ultimately come from nigrum, the accusative form of the Latin word niger (pronounced [ˈniger], like "knee-ger" with the final r being trilled), simply meaning "black".

In Colonial America, negars was used in 1619 by John Rolfe, describing slaves shipped to Virginia colony.[5] Neger (sometimes spelled "neggar") also prevailed in northern New York under the Dutch and also in Philadelphia, in its Moravian and Pennsylvania Dutch communities. For example, the African Burial Ground in New York City was originally known as "Begraafplaats van de Neger" (Dutch phrase meaning "Cemetery of the negro" in English).

In the United States, the word ****** was not always considered derogatory, but was instead used by many as merely denotative of black skin, as it was in other parts of the English-speaking world. In nineteenth-century literature, there are many uses of the word ****** with no intended negative connotation. Charles Dickens, and Joseph Conrad (who published The ****** of the 'Narcissus' in 1897) used the word without racist intent. Mark Twain often put the word into the mouths of his characters, white and black, but did not use the word when writing as himself in his autobiographical Life on the Mississippi.

In the United Kingdom and other parts of the English-speaking world, the word was often used to refer to people of Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Kashmiri, Indian or Sri Lankan descent, or merely to darker-skinned foreigners in general; in his 1926 Modern English Usage, H. W. Fowler observed that when the word was applied to "others than full or partial negroes," it was "felt as an insult by the person described, & betrays in the speaker, if not deliberate insolence, at least a very arrogant inhumanity." The note was excised from later editions of the book.

In the 1800s, as ****** began to acquire the pejorative connotation it holds today, the term "Colored" gained popularity as a kinder alternative to negro and associated terms. For example, abolitionists in Boston, Massachusetts posted warnings to "Colored People of Boston and vicinity." The name of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People reflects the preference for this term at the time of the NAACP's founding in 1909.

Southern dialect in many parts of the southern United States changes the pronunciation of "Negro" to "nigra" (used most famously by Lyndon B. Johnson, a proponent of civil rights). In the early editions of his dictionary, Noah Webster suggested the new spelling of neger for "Negro".[6]

Black became the preferred term in English in the late 1960s, and this continues to the present day. In the United States this has been displaced to some extent by African American, at least in politically correct usage, though this blanket term does not accurately describe those from other African nations such as Morocco; this resembles the term Afro-American that was in vogue in the early 1970s. Nevertheless, black continues in widespread use as a racial designation in the United States and is rarely regarded as offensive.

Today the word is often spelled ***** or niggah, in imitation of the manner in which some pronounce it. (Less-common variants are nigguh or even nikuh.) Other variations, designed to avoid the term itself, include nookah, nukka, nagger and the much older "jigger."

In the United States:

In the United States, the word was freely used by most whites and some blacks until the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s.

In the first half of the 20th Century, before Major League Baseball was integrated, ball players with a dark complexion were sometimes nicknamed "***."[7][8] The following major league players bore the nickname: Johnny Beazley (1941-49), Howard Berry (1921-22), Bobby Bragan (1940-48), *** Clarke (1905-20), *** Cuppy (1892-1901), *** Fuller (1902), Johnny Grabowski (1923-31), *** Lipscomb (1937), Charlie Niebergall (1921-24), *** Perrine (1907), and Frank Smith (1904-15).

Louisiana Governor Earl Long also used the term when advocating expanded voting rights for African Americans. At that time, the term was less noteworthy than the expressions of support by white Southerners, as it was a common regional term for blacks, along with negro and colored.

Today, the implied racism of the term is so strong that the use of ****** in most situations is a social taboo. Many American magazines and newspapers will not even print the word in full, instead using n*gg*r, n*ger, n——, or "the N-word."

A Washington Post article on Strom Thurmond's 1948 candidacy for President of the United States went so far as to replace it with the periphrasis "the less-refined word for black people." The word was also completely excised from the Microsoft Encarta dictionary, despite its common usage.

The shock effect of the word can also be used to deliberately cause offense. Several historians and activists, such as Dick Gregory, have said the use of "N-word" instead of ****** robs younger generations of the full history of black people in America.

The term ****** has sometimes been extended in meaning so as to refer to all disadvantaged people. For example, Ron Dellums, an American politician, once said that "it's time for somebody to lead all of America's ******s".[9]

The New York City Council passed a resolution on February 28, 2007 that symbolically bans the use of the word ******. There are no penalties for non-compliance. The resolution also asks that songs including the word ****** in their lyrics be excluded from consideration for the Grammy Awards.[10][11]

Boxer Muhammed Ali famously said in an interview regarding his refusal to enlist during the Vietnam War, 'I aint going to fight in Vietnam, no Vietnamese ever called me a ******'.

Concerning its use among African-Americans, Cornel West says "There's a certain rhythmic seduction to the word. If you speak in a sentence and you have to say 'cat,' 'companion,' or 'friend' as opposed to '******,' then the rhythmic presentation is off. That rhythmic language is a form of historical memory for black people... When Richard Pryor came back from Africa and decided to stop using the word onstage, he would sometimes start to slip up because he was so used to speaking that way. It was the right word at the moment to keep the rhythm together in his sentence making." [12]

[EchoPark]

I will admit I say this word often, in a friendly greeting with my friends.

Growing up in area of Toledo Ohio where I was one of the few non-black kids in my neighborhood and receiving acceptance into the black community, I can speak for myself in saying that I grew up with the positive aspects of this word. In envokes camraderie and a sense of belong amongst the community. Many of my black friends and a few non-black would use the word as sort of a defiance saying "The white man used this as a deragatory term for our people and we have taken control of it and use it on our terms"

And the idiots who say black people use reverse racism and get angry with white people using the N word, It is usually because the person is using the word as an abrassive deragatory way and have almost certainly never had a friendship with a black person or known one.

[HashHolly]

I will admit I say this word often, in a friendly greeting with my friends.

Growing up in area of Toledo Ohio where I was one of the few non-black kids in my neighborhood and receiving acceptance into the black community, I can speak for myself in saying that I grew up with the positive aspects of this word. In envokes camraderie and a sense of belong amongst the community. Many of my black friends and a few non-black would use the word as sort of a defiance saying "The white man used this as a deragatory term for our people and we have taken control of it and use it on our terms"

And the idiots who say black people use reverse racism and get angry with white people using the N word, It is usually because the person is using the word as an abrassive deragatory way and have almost certainly never had a friendship with a black person or known one.

Thank you, finally someone GETS it

[x togepi x]

Oh, and since we are on the subject of offensive words, how about Cracker, and Honkie? Anyone bothered, or offended by those?

no, because those words don't really have any power behind them. i laugh when someone uses them in all seriousness (and when people get offended by them).

[speakhandsforme]

Oh, and since we are on the subject of offensive words, how about Cracker, and Honkie? Anyone bothered, or offended by those?

no, I don't think there is a white American who could find such laughable terminology to be offensive.

[absolutecrunk]

I hope someone stirs something up in this thread because it seems as if everyone is just pretty tolerant of it.

[Nevuk]

Oh, and since we are on the subject of offensive words, how about Cracker, and Honkie? Anyone bothered, or offended by those?
Not in the slightest. I don't even know what honkie means, and I've never been called either of those terms.

[_jonas]

I think derogatory or sexist terms against women have become a bigger problem.
it doesn't get nearly as much backlash as it should

[thespearkid]

As a professional black guy with 18 years of experience in being African-American, my personal opinion is that I don't care if anyone says it. It's just a word and I, for one, refuse to let a word control my emotions.

[nashiscash1324]

Oh, and since we are on the subject of offensive words, how about Cracker, and Honkie? Anyone bothered, or offended by those?

nope. i don't see why people are offended when the word ****** is used...fuck its just a word.

[thespearkid]

nope. i don't see why people are offended when the word ****** is used...fuck its just a word.
Well, it's not just a word like "cup" or "yellow" are words. It's an insult.

[brentkid]

The argument that blacks can use it because they give it their own meaning is such a terrible rationale to throw the word around however they please.

[thespearkid]

The argument that blacks can use it because they give it their own meaning is such a terrible rationale to throw the word around however they please.
All words can have different meanings. For instance, two girls who are friends might greet each other with "hey slut" or something of the like but if they were actually called a slut by someone who knew little to nothing about them, it'd be different.

[Nevuk]

The argument that blacks can use it because they give it their own meaning is such a terrible rationale to throw the word around however they please.
Why? I'm interested in your rationale.

[brentkid]

All words can have different meanings. For instance, two girls who are friends might greet each other with "hey slut" or something of the like but if they were actually called a slut by someone who knew little to nothing about them, it'd be different.
The level of hatred behind the word ****** is not even comparable to the word slut.

[Nevuk]

The level of hatred behind the word ****** is not even comparable to the word slut.
"at least I don't slather make-up on my face like a trollop, you fucking cunt" (slight paraphrase)

[thespearkid]

The level of hatred behind the word ****** is not even comparable to the word slut.
The amount of hatred is irrelevant and based on personal opinion. Not like each word has a hate meter attached to it. It all just depends on how it's used. Again, I don't care personally but it's very easy to see both sides of the issue.

[nashiscash1324]

It's an insult.


explain.

[thespearkid]

explain.
I'm not sure what you're asking me to explain...

[nashiscash1324]

I'm not sure what you're asking me to explain...


ya me neither just being an ass.

idk why this thread was made, the usage of the word ****** is protected by the freedom of speech, so unless they are planning on taking that away then why debate it?

[thespearkid]

idk why this thread was made, the usage of the word ****** is protected by the freedom of speech, so unless they are planning on taking that away then why debate it?
Agreed.

[WakeUpBlondie]

As a professional black guy with 18 years of experience in being African-American, my personal opinion is that I don't care if anyone says it. It's just a word and I, for one, refuse to let a word control my emotions.

This is what all my black friends say

I've always wondered this and this in no way is intended to be racist- do black people have to wear sun screen?

[nashiscash1324]

This is what all my black friends say

I've always wondered this and this in no way is intended to be racist- do black people have to wear sun screen?

yes.

[thespearkid]

This is what all my black friends say

I've always wondered this and this in no way is intended to be racist- do black people have to wear sun screen?
No. Black people's skin in made of magic.

[speakhandsforme]

No. Black people's skin in made of magic.
I have a sneaking suspision that you're fibbing.

[thesafeword]

What bugs me is how the black community gets all offended by the term ****** when they toss it around themselves like it's nothing. And all of these rappers that use are sending a bad message to kids, making it seem like it's okay to use it and if they do someone will get offended. And the media today freaks out so much, to me it's like they are trying to make up for the slavery that happened in Civil War times. It really is becoming reverse racism to me.

[_jonas]

I still don't get why black people find 6 asterisks so offensive.

[Duexy]

its because its being used in a far different way. ***** isn't the same thing as ******. when a white person says "whats up *****" to me, i don't get offended. when white people call me "******" its worse.

also its about context

[_jonas]

so you'd be offended if i called you a *****, but ****** is pushing it?

what about ************?

[speakhandsforme]

No. Black people's skin in made of magic.

Oh, and I checked out your profile (to make sure you were really a black American and not some lame ass beige American) and I saw that you like Charles Bukowski, George Orwell, writing, and "that's what she said" jokes....which makes you exactly like me, only black.

Now you also wrote that you like Scrubs, which leads me to my next point: I've always wanted an African American best friend that's just like me so that he and I can be like JD and Turk from Scrubs.

I just wish there were more guys like you so I could fullfil my life-long dream to live my life parodying JD and Turk.

[_jonas]

I wish i had a black friend to call Brown Bear:-(

[XXKILLXHANNAHXX]

I find it incredibly offensive...it's a disgusting word ..my mum (who is from johannesburg in south africa) has been called that word quite a few times. My family are constantly fighting with each other because one side is black the other is white.

[thesafeword]

It's really just a word, what happened to black people years ago, with all of the racism and stuff, did not happen to you. And if you still get offended by it, don't use it and let people know that you don't appreciate if they use it, white or black or any race. I just don't like how some people in the black community use it, but frown upon other people using it. Either completely frown upon the word or don't. Don't give people these mixed messages bullshit.

[Jesse!]

I just don't like how some people in the black community use it, but frown upon other people using it. Either completely frown upon the word or don't. Don't give people these mixed messages bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation

It's quite common and I think they have every right to do so.

[thesafeword]

I know, they are trying 'own' the word, but it's just sending mixed messages making it look like it's okay to use it. Then they get offended if you do.

[Cure4commoncold]

Why this word? Why not all racial slurs? That speaks enough for itself. If they try to abolish the word they'll just be another one made in it's place as long as you have hate amongst people. Also for the record I've gotten called "cracker" but random african american for no reason on the street. Do you see the caucasian community going around using that as a greeting for each other? This is for EchoPark if your friends think they've taken a word that's meant to be derogatory and use it as a way of defiance they're sadly mistaken and disillusioned. All this does is make that particular portion of the black community ignorant. You can't take a derogatory word and use it in a way that isn't derogatory doesn't work that way sorry.

[leezer]

yeah was gonna make a comment along the same lines.

Who is that in your avatar?

[HashHolly]

Not in the slightest. I don't even know what honkie means, and I've never been called either of those terms.

Honky is a corruption of hungy or hunky, a term which originated in the stockyards and slaughterhouses of Chicago. The term may derive from "Bohunk" (Bohemian-Hungarian), which was used to refer to central Europeans. Black workers and Hungarian workers were two of the largest ethnic groups in the Chicago meat industry. Racial and ethnic tension between the two groups led Black workers to begin calling Hungarian workers, and those perceived as Hungarian workers, hunky, perhaps in retaliation for the familiar racist epithets to which black workers were subject. The corruption 'honky' emerged shortly thereafter.

Honkey was later adopted as a pejorative in 1967 by black militants within SNCC seeking a rebuttal for the term ******. National Chairman of the SNCC H. Rap Brown, on June 24, 1967, told an audience of blacks in Cambridge, "You should burn that school down and then go take over the honkey's school." Brown went on to say: "If America don't come `round, we got to burn it down. You better get some guns, brother. The only thing the honkey respects is a gun. You give me a gun and tell me to shoot my enemy, I might shoot Ladybird."[1] [2][3]

In Australasia and Singapore, a person of Hong Kong origin is categorised as a Hongky or "Hongkie", a term that some people of Hong Kong take offense at. They prefer to be called Hongkongers (or Hongkongese). In fact several brochures from the Hong Kong Tourism Board make reference to this new term.

On the TV show The Jeffersons, George Jefferson regularly referred to white people as honkys. This usage (while negatively affecting the later syndication of the show to some degree) added a familiar, less offensive tone to the word, which caused some acceptance of the term when used in the appropriate company, much in the same way earlier television shows had disseminated racial slurs about blacks.

The word honky may also refer to a particular type of country music, called honky-tonk.

What bugs me is how the black community gets all offended by the term ****** when they toss it around themselves like it's nothing. And all of these rappers that use are sending a bad message to kids, making it seem like it's okay to use it and if they do someone will get offended. And the media today freaks out so much, to me it's like they are trying to make up for the slavery that happened in Civil War times. It really is becoming reverse racism to me.

Well wouldn't you think a black person would be offended by it if used in derogatory fashion vs a greeting, and im sure when the KKK uses it they aren't saying "whatsup buddy!"

[JJJ]

It's really ridiculous and funny that African Americans use it so much to refer to a friend or person, when it was a negative term used at them. It makes no sense and is pretty stupid.

[HashHolly]

I find it incredibly offensive...it's a disgusting word ..my mum (who is from johannesburg in south africa) has been called that word quite a few times. My family are constantly fighting with each other because one side is black the other is white.

That must make family get-togethers very hectic

It's really just a word, what happened to black people years ago, with all of the racism and stuff, did not happen to you. And if you still get offended by it, don't use it and let people know that you don't appreciate if they use it, white or black or any race. I just don't like how some people in the black community use it, but frown upon other people using it. Either completely frown upon the word or don't. Don't give people these mixed messages bullshit.

Shut Up, hahaha. Look, i too once believed that the double standard of the "we can use it but you cant" wasnt ridiculous, but you have to understand the reasoning behind it, again.....At some point the word turned into a derogatory racial slur, black people began to use it to take the power out of the word.....Its all about context, its a horrible word to use when used in a derogatory fashion, and 9/10 non-blacks thats say that word DO mean it in a derogatory fashion........9/10 blacks that use this word dont use it with its negatived definition in mind.

I know, they are trying 'own' the word, but it's just sending mixed messages making it look like it's okay to use it. Then they get offended if you do.

Mixed messsages....haha ok how about we simplify it for you, if you can walk into a middle of a group of 10 big black men and say the word without fear of getting hit, well then your ok to use it, if not....then you probably shouldn't be saying it, k?

Why this word? Why not all racial slurs? That speaks enough for itself. If they try to abolish the word they'll just be another one made in it's place as long as you have hate amongst people. Also for the record I've gotten called "cracker" but random african american for no reason on the street. Do you see the caucasian community going around using that as a greeting for each other? This is for EchoPark if your friends think they've taken a word that's meant to be derogatory and use it as a way of defiance they're sadly mistaken and disillusioned. All this does is make that particular portion of the black community ignorant. You can't take a derogatory word and use it in a way that isn't derogatory doesn't work that way sorry.

Sweet, ive gotten called ****** by random caucasians on the street for no reason. Of course not, lets remember, who were the salves and who were the slave masters?

Who makes you the king of how words can be used?

[thespearkid]

Oh, and I checked out your profile (to make sure you were really a black American and not some lame ass beige American) and I saw that you like Charles Bukowski, George Orwell, writing, and "that's what she said" jokes....which makes you exactly like me, only black.

Now you also wrote that you like Scrubs, which leads me to my next point: I've always wanted an African American best friend that's just like me so that he and I can be like JD and Turk from Scrubs.

I just wish there were more guys like you so I could fullfil my life-long dream to live my life parodying JD and Turk.
"Beige American" gave me lolz. My best friend (who's white) has often compared our friendship to that of JD and Turk. Oddly enough, I'm the JD.

[thespearkid]

It's really ridiculous and funny that African Americans use it so much to refer to a friend or person, when it was a negative term used at them. It makes no sense and is pretty stupid.
Not really. Again, I refer to how female friends may call each other "sluts".

[Cure4commoncold]

Who makes you the king of how words can be used?

I'm not king of how words can be used never claimed to be or insinuated it either. Now if you'd like to turn to your left there's someone standing there his name is LOGIC to your right is also someone else his name is IGNORANCE. Right now you've chosen to shake hands with IGNORANCE. You can't take a derogatory statement and make it into something else it doesn't work like that. Like I stated before I can't go up to a girl I know and am friends with and say "What's up whore?" or one of my guy friends and say "What's up you f*ggot?" you can't change the meaning of something like that into what you want. A wide percentage of the african american community may believe just because they accept it as a form of friendliness between each does not change the fact that the word is still derogatory they've just deluded themselves to believing it isn't. The slave card is worthless also so don't pull that one either although that made me actually laugh out loud. The Jewish community was enslaved by the Egyptians in the past, then the holocaust of course. I certainly do not think they're going up to each other and saying, "What's up my kike?". That's logic not me claiming to be the king of how words can be used....

[nikaidoh]

"Black man's got his problems and his way to deal with it,
So don't fool yourself you're helping with your white liberal shit.
If you care to take a closer look at the way things really stand,
You'd see we're all just ******s to the rulers of this land."

-- Steve Ignorant (of the Crass)- White Punks on Hope

[thespearkid]

I'm not king of how words can be used never claimed to be or insinuated it either. Now if you'd like to turn to your left there's someone standing there his name is LOGIC to your right is also someone else his name is IGNORANCE. Right now you've chosen to shake hands with IGNORANCE. You can't take a derogatory statement and make it into something else it doesn't work like that.
Of course you can. For instance, in mandarin Chinese, the word "ma" has four different definitions, all just depending on the way you're using it. In English, the word "love" means a lot of different things (like someone who loves their teddy bear, favorite band, or significant other in different ways). With n.i.g.g.e.r, it can be used as both a derogatory statement or a common greeting between friends.

Like I stated before I can't go up to a girl I know and am friends with and say "What's up whore?" or one of my guy friends and say "What's up you f*ggot?"
Of course you can. Honestly, if you went up to a friend of yours and jokingly called him a f.ag, would he be seriously offended? Are you seriously implying that you've never jokingly insulted one of your friends with a derogatory term (not neccesarily "slut" or "f.ag", maybe something like "stupid", etc.)?

A wide percentage of the african american community may believe just because they accept it as a form of friendliness between each does not change the fact that the word is still derogatory they've just deluded themselves to believing it isn't. The slave card is worthless also so don't pull that one either although that made me actually laugh out loud. The Jewish community was enslaved by the Egyptians in the past, then the holocaust of course. I certainly do not think they're going up to each other and saying, "What's up my kike?".
Nothing better than making up statistics that don't exist. Whether or not a word is derogatory depends solely on whether or not someone is offended by it. If some blacks aren't offended by their friends greeting them with the n-word, then it's not derogatory to them in that sense. I can't stress this enough; WORDS HAVE NO SET MEANING. It's all based on interpretation. If tomorrow, everyone on Earth started calling pens "frindles", then that's what pens would become (read the book "Frindle" for more understanding on the subject). And the Jewish thing is irrelevant so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

That's logic not me claiming to be the king of how words can be used....
Logic dictates that a word is simply a symbol for whatever it's describing and what it's describing is entirely up to the group of people using the word. By your logic, synonyms don't really exist. If you're not sure what a synonym is, go find the nearest five year old and they'll tell you all about it.

[TK]

I'm surprised no one has mention Jesse Jackson usage of the word referring to Obama. Double standards are still very alive on the use of the word, rather it's with hate or use in a friendly way.

[saysmydoctor]

Stop watching the View, ******.

[TK]

Stop watching the View, ******.

Don't call me a ******, ******.

[nikaidoh]

Chill the fuck out ******

[Neo Cassady]

It's all in how it's used. Guaranteed a lot less people had problems with John Lennon using it as a general term to describe oppressed people, those who are looked down on by society, than people using it against blacks in a derogatory manner.

jc04BXfQVaU


edit: good explanation at 2:10

[shes.a.ghost]

Yes, because ALL black people think and act the same......I should have known there would be assholes like you in this thread that pick appart everything someone says. I was not trying to say every single black person uses the word.

[Cure4commoncold]

Of course you can. For instance, in mandarin Chinese, the word "ma" has four different definitions, all just depending on the way you're using it. In English, the word "love" means a lot of different things (like someone who loves their teddy bear, favorite band, or significant other in different ways). With n.i.g.g.e.r, it can be used as both a derogatory statement or a common greeting between friends.


Of course you can. Honestly, if you went up to a friend of yours and jokingly called him a f.ag, would he be seriously offended? Are you seriously implying that you've never jokingly insulted one of your friends with a derogatory term (not neccesarily "slut" or "f.ag", maybe something like "stupid", etc.)?


Nothing better than making up statistics that don't exist. Whether or not a word is derogatory depends solely on whether or not someone is offended by it. If some blacks aren't offended by their friends greeting them with the n-word, then it's not derogatory to them in that sense. I can't stress this enough; WORDS HAVE NO SET MEANING. It's all based on interpretation. If tomorrow, everyone on Earth started calling pens "frindles", then that's what pens would become (read the book "Frindle" for more understanding on the subject). And the Jewish thing is irrelevant so I'm not sure why you brought it up.


Logic dictates that a word is simply a symbol for whatever it's describing and what it's describing is entirely up to the group of people using the word. By your logic, synonyms don't really exist. If you're not sure what a synonym is, go find the nearest five year old and they'll tell you all about it.

First you're first paragraph is logical fallacy.
Second off you're exactly right words have no set meaning it is based on interpretation the word n*gger is interpreted negatively. The color of your skin should not change the interpretation of word when you say it. Also who you're saying the word to shouldn't change the interpretation either. I should be able to go up to any black person on the street and say "what's up n*gger" as long as I'm saying it in a friendly way it should be ok with what you just said above? You really think that's going to happen? No, it isn't. The above statement bases interpretation on tone and who's saying the word. That's nothing short of ridiculous.

[open mind]

i'll use terms like tundra monkey, spear chucker, muck, and niff with fellow native alaskan friends on occasion because it's obvious that i as a friend and a fellow native alaskan don't really have any true negative feelings towards natives........it's sort of a way of making fun of racists through the use of thier ignorant labels.
i imagine it's not so different for black folks.

[thespearkid]

First you're first paragraph is logical fallacy.
Second off you're exactly right words have no set meaning it is based on interpretation the word n*gger is interpreted negatively. The color of your skin should not change the interpretation of word when you say it. Also who you're saying the word to shouldn't change the interpretation either. I should be able to go up to any black person on the street and say "what's up n*gger" as long as I'm saying it in a friendly way it should be ok with what you just said above? You really think that's going to happen? No, it isn't. The above statement bases interpretation on tone and who's saying the word. That's nothing short of ridiculous.
N-igger is not always interpreted negatively. No, the color of the skin doesn't change the interpretation necessarily but the tone in which it's used does. It has nothing to do with skin color. If you want to call black people n-iggers so bad then, by all means, go ahead and do it but understand that whether you're willing to accept it or not, the word does have two different meanings depending on how it's used and using it to greet a random black person you don't know is not a good idea at all.

[HashHolly]

Of course you can. For instance, in mandarin Chinese, the word "ma" has four different definitions, all just depending on the way you're using it. In English, the word "love" means a lot of different things (like someone who loves their teddy bear, favorite band, or significant other in different ways). With n.i.g.g.e.r, it can be used as both a derogatory statement or a common greeting between friends.


Of course you can. Honestly, if you went up to a friend of yours and jokingly called him a f.ag, would he be seriously offended? Are you seriously implying that you've never jokingly insulted one of your friends with a derogatory term (not neccesarily "slut" or "f.ag", maybe something like "stupid", etc.)?


Nothing better than making up statistics that don't exist. Whether or not a word is derogatory depends solely on whether or not someone is offended by it. If some blacks aren't offended by their friends greeting them with the n-word, then it's not derogatory to them in that sense. I can't stress this enough; WORDS HAVE NO SET MEANING. It's all based on interpretation. If tomorrow, everyone on Earth started calling pens "frindles", then that's what pens would become (read the book "Frindle" for more understanding on the subject). And the Jewish thing is irrelevant so I'm not sure why you brought it up.


Logic dictates that a word is simply a symbol for whatever it's describing and what it's describing is entirely up to the group of people using the word. By your logic, synonyms don't really exist. If you're not sure what a synonym is, go find the nearest five year old and they'll tell you all about it.

Some people get it, some people never will.

I'm surprised no one has mention Jesse Jackson usage of the word referring to Obama. Double standards are still very alive on the use of the word, rather it's with hate or use in a friendly way.

Well, obviously Jesse Jackson meant it in a derogatory fashion.

First you're first paragraph is logical fallacy.
Second off you're exactly right words have no set meaning it is based on interpretation the word n*gger is interpreted negatively. The color of your skin should not change the interpretation of word when you say it. Also who you're saying the word to shouldn't change the interpretation either. I should be able to go up to any black person on the street and say "what's up n*gger" as long as I'm saying it in a friendly way it should be ok with what you just said above? You really think that's going to happen? No, it isn't. The above statement bases interpretation on tone and who's saying the word. That's nothing short of ridiculous.

Not everywhere, in China it is used describe a dark shade of brown, no negative connotation whatsoever, so no, ****** isn't interpreted negatively everywhere all the time.

Course not, just like while two females can get away with calling eachother sluts in a playful fashion, you doing it might result in a swift kick to the nuts....though i kind of dare you to try that little experiment out for yourself.


i'll use terms like tundra monkey, spear chucker, muck, and niff with fellow native alaskan friends on occasion because it's obvious that i as a friend and a fellow native alaskan don't really have any true negative feelings towards natives........it's sort of a way of making fun of racists through the use of thier ignorant labels.
i imagine it's not so different for black folks.

Again, some people get it, and some people never will/

[_jonas]

i get it, i don't get!

[Nevuk]

Honky is a corruption of hungy or hunky, a term which originated in the stockyards and slaughterhouses of Chicago. The term may derive from "Bohunk" (Bohemian-Hungarian), which was used to refer to central Europeans. Black workers and Hungarian workers were two of the largest ethnic groups in the Chicago meat industry. Racial and ethnic tension between the two groups led Black workers to begin calling Hungarian workers, and those perceived as Hungarian workers, hunky, perhaps in retaliation for the familiar racist epithets to which black workers were subject. The corruption 'honky' emerged shortly thereafter.

Honkey was later adopted as a pejorative in 1967 by black militants within SNCC seeking a rebuttal for the term ******. National Chairman of the SNCC H. Rap Brown, on June 24, 1967, told an audience of blacks in Cambridge, "You should burn that school down and then go take over the honkey's school." Brown went on to say: "If America don't come `round, we got to burn it down. You better get some guns, brother. The only thing the honkey respects is a gun. You give me a gun and tell me to shoot my enemy, I might shoot Ladybird."[1] [2][3]

In Australasia and Singapore, a person of Hong Kong origin is categorised as a Hongky or "Hongkie", a term that some people of Hong Kong take offense at. They prefer to be called Hongkongers (or Hongkongese). In fact several brochures from the Hong Kong Tourism Board make reference to this new term.

On the TV show The Jeffersons, George Jefferson regularly referred to white people as honkys. This usage (while negatively affecting the later syndication of the show to some degree) added a familiar, less offensive tone to the word, which caused some acceptance of the term when used in the appropriate company, much in the same way earlier television shows had disseminated racial slurs about blacks.

The word honky may also refer to a particular type of country music, called honky-tonk.



Yeah, that was kind of my satirical point. The three words aren't even comparable, unless you're apparently from hong-kong. I highly doubt most white people are aware of its connotations, and cracker is typically just laughed off.

[brentkid]

I'm not king of how words can be used never claimed to be or insinuated it either. Now if you'd like to turn to your left there's someone standing there his name is LOGIC to your right is also someone else his name is IGNORANCE. Right now you've chosen to shake hands with IGNORANCE. You can't take a derogatory statement and make it into something else it doesn't work like that. Like I stated before I can't go up to a girl I know and am friends with and say "What's up whore?" or one of my guy friends and say "What's up you f*ggot?" you can't change the meaning of something like that into what you want. A wide percentage of the african american community may believe just because they accept it as a form of friendliness between each does not change the fact that the word is still derogatory they've just deluded themselves to believing it isn't. The slave card is worthless also so don't pull that one either although that made me actually laugh out loud. The Jewish community was enslaved by the Egyptians in the past, then the holocaust of course. I certainly do not think they're going up to each other and saying, "What's up my kike?". That's logic not me claiming to be the king of how words can be used....
Agreed.

Honestly, I can't stand the argument that you can just take the word and give it a positive meaning and all of a sudden it's okay to use. But then hey, if you're not part of the group that was originally humiliated by the word, don't you dare say it because it's our word and we gave it a new meaning among ourselves. You don't see gays walking around and addressing each other as f*g and dyke. It just doesn't work like that.

It honestly blows my mind how a portion of the black community can defend the use of n*gger. It truly does. It has and will always be interpreted first and foremost as a negative and degrading word. Giving a new meaning won't change a damn thing. As long as there are black people who use it freely, there will always be the white person who will say, "Well if they can say it, so can I."

[thesafeword]

Honky is a corruption of hungy or hunky, a term which originated in the stockyards and slaughterhouses of Chicago. The term may derive from "Bohunk" (Bohemian-Hungarian), which was used to refer to central Europeans. Black workers and Hungarian workers were two of the largest ethnic groups in the Chicago meat industry. Racial and ethnic tension between the two groups led Black workers to begin calling Hungarian workers, and those perceived as Hungarian workers, hunky, perhaps in retaliation for the familiar racist epithets to which black workers were subject. The corruption 'honky' emerged shortly thereafter.

Honkey was later adopted as a pejorative in 1967 by black militants within SNCC seeking a rebuttal for the term ******. National Chairman of the SNCC H. Rap Brown, on June 24, 1967, told an audience of blacks in Cambridge, "You should burn that school down and then go take over the honkey's school." Brown went on to say: "If America don't come `round, we got to burn it down. You better get some guns, brother. The only thing the honkey respects is a gun. You give me a gun and tell me to shoot my enemy, I might shoot Ladybird."[1] [2][3]

In Australasia and Singapore, a person of Hong Kong origin is categorised as a Hongky or "Hongkie", a term that some people of Hong Kong take offense at. They prefer to be called Hongkongers (or Hongkongese). In fact several brochures from the Hong Kong Tourism Board make reference to this new term.

On the TV show The Jeffersons, George Jefferson regularly referred to white people as honkys. This usage (while negatively affecting the later syndication of the show to some degree) added a familiar, less offensive tone to the word, which caused some acceptance of the term when used in the appropriate company, much in the same way earlier television shows had disseminated racial slurs about blacks.

The word honky may also refer to a particular type of country music, called honky-tonk.



Well wouldn't you think a black person would be offended by it if used in derogatory fashion vs a greeting, and im sure when the KKK uses it they aren't saying "whatsup buddy!"
It's either an offensive word or not, you can't choose who's allowed to use a word and who isn't.

[open mind]

It's either an offensive word or not, you can't choose who's allowed to use a word and who isn't.

.........said the white devil.



haha, just kidding

[nikaidoh]

.........said the white devil.



haha, just kidding

KILL WHITEY!

[chaosB4storm]

The word is not the issue. Racism is. Eliminating the word will not eliminate racism.

And all the people with this view are correct in my opinion:

It is reasonable that people who use the word n.igger in a way that is not meant to be derogatory can justify the use of it.

The simple reason is that if the person is not being racist (which is the issue at hand) then there is no problem. If the person uses it for added racism, it is unacceptable.

[chaosB4storm]

Agreed.

Honestly, I can't stand the argument that you can just take the word and give it a positive meaning and all of a sudden it's okay to use. But then hey, if you're not part of the group that was originally humiliated by the word, don't you dare say it because it's our word and we gave it a new meaning among ourselves. You don't see gays walking around and addressing each other as f*g and dyke. It just doesn't work like that.

It honestly blows my mind how a portion of the black community can defend the use of n*gger. It truly does. It has and will always be interpreted first and foremost as a negative and degrading word. Giving a new meaning won't change a damn thing. As long as there are black people who use it freely, there will always be the white person who will say, "Well if they can say it, so can I."

I do see that actually.

The black community is not responsible for defending the word n.igger. They are, however, entitled to be offended by racism.

And anyone with the philosophy of "Well if they can say it, so can I" has not really thought things through. Once again, it is not the word; racism is the issue. The word just happens to be used in a racist way a lot of the time, and in these cases, I consider it unacceptable.

[Yes. And?]

Mixed messsages....haha ok how about we simplify it for you, if you can walk into a middle of a group of 10 big black men and say the word without fear of getting hit, well then your ok to use it, if not....then you probably shouldn't be saying it, k?

lol, I agree. You're free to say whatever you want, just don't bitch about the consequences.

[Cure4commoncold]

Not everywhere, in China it is used describe a dark shade of brown, no negative connotation whatsoever, so no, ****** isn't interpreted negatively everywhere all the time.
/

Are we in fucking china? They call cigarettes f*gs in the U.K. So what, we're not in the U.K. or fucking China we're in America. Again I'm going to say this why do african americans feel the need to take offensive word used against them and try to turn it into a word of brotherhood. Why are the Italians, Irish, Jews, or Middle Easterners doing this. There's no point to twisting a derogatory word like that it's ridiculous, ignorant, and pretentious.

[thesafeword]

I do see that actually.

The black community is not responsible for defending the word n.igger. They are, however, entitled to be offended by racism.

And anyone with the philosophy of "Well if they can say it, so can I" has not really thought things through. Once again, it is not the word; racism is the issue. The word just happens to be used in a racist way a lot of the time, and in these cases, I consider it unacceptable.
If kids grow up listening to rappers say ****** over and over again then they will think that it's okay. They're sending mixed messages and they should either not tolerate the word or understand or not get offended by it if someone uses it in a non-racist way.

[brentkid]

I do see that actually.

The black community is not responsible for defending the word n.igger. They are, however, entitled to be offended by racism.

And anyone with the philosophy of "Well if they can say it, so can I" has not really thought things through. Once again, it is not the word; racism is the issue. The word just happens to be used in a racist way a lot of the time, and in these cases, I consider it unacceptable.
The word is rooted in racism. You can't just turn around and say, "It's okay because I don't use it in a racist way." Look at where the word originates from. You can't change history.

[TK]

Well, obviously Jesse Jackson meant it in a derogatory fashion.


Which is why I said there's still a double standard. If a white newscaster or celebrity would have said that about Obama, he would have been persecuted and labeled a racist and bigot.

[thesafeword]

Exactly. And for the whole brotherhood thing, do you hear other races using derogatory terms with each other? You don't hear a lot of Asians walking around calling each other chinks.

[chaosB4storm]

If kids grow up listening to rappers say ****** over and over again then they will think that it's okay. They're sending mixed messages and they should either not tolerate the word or understand or not get offended by it if someone uses it in a non-racist way.

That's what I choose.

And for the record, when I say using n.igger is unacceptable in certain cases, all I'm saying is that I do not like racism. I still believe in the freedom of speech, and therefore I believe racist comments should be legal even though I find it unacceptable.

[chaosB4storm]

The word is rooted in racism. You can't just turn around and say, "It's okay because I don't use it in a racist way." Look at where the word originates from. You can't change history.

It has nothing to do with changing history. I believe "gay" was also derogatory at one point. It is now the most common way of referring to a homosexual. Are you against people using that term to describe homosexuals? Please do not reply by telling me that 'n.igger has always been a much harsher word than gay, so they are incomparable'. They were BOTH derogatory at one point, so you must believe that "gay" is and always will be offensive.

And even if you are against both terms, I still maintain that it is perfectly appropriate for me to call my friend n.igger or gay if I would like to, but unacceptable for a random person to call my friend n.igger or gay.

It is about racism (or prejudice if you like). People can still be as racist as they want without using the word n.igger. Eliminating a person's vocabulary will not eliminate their inner thoughts.

And once again, I am just personally against racist comments. I still believe that people should have the freedom to be as racist as they want.

[brentkid]

You're missing my point. I was never arguing about the legality of racism or degrading remarks. I don't care about what your stance on freedom of speech is. It's the bullshit double standards that irritate me.

[chaosB4storm]

oh, no, sorry, the freedom of speech part was not directed at you. I just wanted to get my opinion out there

[pcyph]

All words can have different meanings. For instance, two girls who are friends might greet each other with "hey slut" or something of the like but if they were actually called a slut by someone who knew little to nothing about them, it'd be different.


Wow, that was seriously the best analogy I've ever seen based on this issue, and actually got me off the fence on the use of the word.

Thank you kind sir.

[Love As Arson]

I have a question:

Why is it that white people are trying to find loopholes, so that they'll have permission to say it?

[chaosB4storm]

I have a question:

Why is it that white people are trying to find loopholes, so that they'll have permission to say it?

If you are referring to me, I am mostly defending how black people use it with eachother. Or, in certain circumstances if a white person is good enough friends with a black person to call him it. I do not, and have not, ever used the word. I actually don't think I've said it before.

[pcyph]

I also have a question:

What's up with all the spanish/brazilian/hispanics etc(Sorry if describing you as those couple is racist, I apologize in advance) gangsters saying the word? It happens in my town, they say it 4 or 5 times a sentence haha.

I dunno, I suppose over the past 10 years they've been "accepted into the community" so to speak?

Comments?

[pcyph]

By the way, I think we're ignoring the fact that plenty of white kids say it to other white kids in a joking matter,

it means different things to different people in different context,

there's no natural law that says you can't interpret it your own way.

[pcyph]

I know I should just edit my post but,

If your from the north and call someone a redneck, I bet you they get pissed off as shit.

Buttttt, ever watch Jeff Foxworthy? They call each other it.

Same shit, different race.

[speakhandsforme]

I also have a question:

What's up with all the spanish/brazilian/hispanics etc(Sorry if describing you as those couple is racist, I apologize in advance) gangsters saying the word? It happens in my town, they say it 4 or 5 times a sentence haha.

I dunno, I suppose over the past 10 years they've been "accepted into the community" so to speak?

Comments?

Haha, I'm not sure how Brazilian gets stuffed between Spanish and Hispanic. But, seriously, though I'm of German heritage, I wouldn't mind being in a Brazilian gang.

[pcyph]

My particular town has a lot of Brazilian immigrants so I pointed it out specifically,

although I'm friends with a lot of them, I don't think I'd ever call them the N-Word, even though they call me it >_<

haha.

[chaosB4storm]

By the way, I think we're ignoring the fact that plenty of white kids say it to other white kids in a joking matter,

it means different things to different people in different context,

there's no natural law that says you can't interpret it your own way.

All true.

[thespearkid]

I have a question:

Why is it that white people are trying to find loopholes, so that they'll have permission to say it?
I'm not really sure. I mean, the people I've seen who argue that white people should be able to say it often use the "it's just a word" argument. If it's just a word then why are they so eager to be able to say it? It's an interesting thought.

[thespearkid]

Agreed.

Honestly, I can't stand the argument that you can just take the word and give it a positive meaning and all of a sudden it's okay to use. But then hey, if you're not part of the group that was originally humiliated by the word, don't you dare say it because it's our word and we gave it a new meaning among ourselves. You don't see gays walking around and addressing each other as f*g and dyke. It just doesn't work like that.

It honestly blows my mind how a portion of the black community can defend the use of n*gger. It truly does. It has and will always be interpreted first and foremost as a negative and degrading word. Giving a new meaning won't change a damn thing. As long as there are black people who use it freely, there will always be the white person who will say, "Well if they can say it, so can I."
In my personal experience, gay people refer to themselves as f*gs a lot (all the gay friends I have do it). Also, no one is talking about the word being spoken. The controversy is over people being called n,iggers. For instance, if you called your friend retarded or gay in a joking sense, it'd be a lot less offensive than if you called someone you didn't know retarded or gay.

[chaosB4storm]

I'm not really sure. I mean, the people I've seen who argue that white people should be able to say it often use the "it's just a word" argument. If it's just a word then why are they so eager to be able to say it? It's an interesting thought.

I am eager to be able to say absolutely any word I want, and am not willing to give my freedom of speech up for any word.

[thespearkid]

I am eager to be able to say absolutely any word I want, and am not willing to give my freedom of speech up for any word.
Well, by all means, go ahead and say it to anyone you want.

[chaosB4storm]

Well, by all means, go ahead and say it to anyone you want.

No, like I said, I never have used the word in my life. To me it's about keeping my freedoms.

It's like the famous "Well if you have nothing to hide, why can't I see what's inside?" I don't see why it's so hard to understand why someone would value his freedom of privacy. Thats why you can't see what's inside: because I have the freedom of privacy.

[chaosB4storm]

pissed off as shit

nice simile lol

[thespearkid]

No, like I said, I never have used the word in my life. To me it's about keeping my freedoms.

It's like the famous "Well if you have nothing to hide, why can't I see what's inside?" I don't see why it's so hard to understand why someone would value his freedom of privacy. Thats why you can't see what's inside: because I have the freedom of privacy.
You have the freedom to say it. No one is trying to take that away from you (besides a few radicals wanting to ban the word). So what exactly is the argument about unless you're trying to take away the rights of certain people to be offended by it. That's not gonna happen. People who are offended by the word will always be offended by being called n.iggers by people they don't know will always be offended by it.

[chaosB4storm]

You have the freedom to say it. No one is trying to take that away from you (besides a few radicals wanting to ban the word). So what exactly is the argument about unless you're trying to take away the rights of certain people to be offended by it. That's not gonna happen. People who are offended by the word will always be offended by being called n.iggers by people they don't know will always be offended by it.

I wouldn't want to do that.

I didn't know whether or not we had a disagreement actually. I was merely defending the people that say "It's just a word" because I don't see what is so "interesting" about someone wanting the freedom to say the word.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the argument is about. I just hope to cover it by saying that:

The level of racism depends on the context of the usage, not just the fact that the word is said.

AND

The freedom of speech does, and should always, protect the right to use the word in whatever context you would like.

[thespearkid]

I wouldn't want to do that.

I didn't know whether or not we had a disagreement actually. I was merely defending the people that say "It's just a word" because I don't see what is so "interesting" about someone wanting the freedom to say the word.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the argument is about. I just hope to cover it by saying that:

The level of racism depends on the context of the usage, not just the fact that the word is said.

AND

The freedom of speech does, and should always, protect the right to use the word in whatever context you would like.
Agree and Agree.

[TK]

I have a question:

Why is it that white people are trying to find loopholes, so that they'll have permission to say it?

I don't so much want permission to say it, because I don't need permission to. I suppose it's simply my ego, but I don't like the fact that there's still double standards and they're based off the color of the person's skin. That being said, I do not at all consider myself a racist, and believe that the word should never be used in a negative way.

[mellzie14]

Agreed.

Honestly, I can't stand the argument that you can just take the word and give it a positive meaning and all of a sudden it's okay to use. But then hey, if you're not part of the group that was originally humiliated by the word, don't you dare say it because it's our word and we gave it a new meaning among ourselves. You don't see gays walking around and addressing each other as f*g and dyke. It just doesn't work like that.

It honestly blows my mind how a portion of the black community can defend the use of n*gger. It truly does. It has and will always be interpreted first and foremost as a negative and degrading word. Giving a new meaning won't change a damn thing. As long as there are black people who use it freely, there will always be the white person who will say, "Well if they can say it, so can I."

A lot of my gay friends do that. They are trying to reclaim the word, just like black people are doing with n*gger.

[Jesse!]

Why this word? Why not all racial slurs? That speaks enough for itself. If they try to abolish the word they'll just be another one made in it's place as long as you have hate amongst people. Also for the record I've gotten called "cracker" but random african american for no reason on the street. Do you see the caucasian community going around using that as a greeting for each other? This is for EchoPark if your friends think they've taken a word that's meant to be derogatory and use it as a way of defiance they're sadly mistaken and disillusioned. All this does is make that particular portion of the black community ignorant. You can't take a derogatory word and use it in a way that isn't derogatory doesn't work that way sorry.

Heh... "cracker". Does that word actually offend you? You're in the racial majority. White people don't need to re-appropriate the word "cracker" because it doesn't really hold any weight.

The word "n[i]gger" has a history of enslavement, murder, and basically every possible violation of human rights behind it.

These words will NEVER disappear, so there are only so many ways that the minority groups which are the victims of them can cope with them. Re-appropriation is probably one of the best. By taking the word back, they make those who use it for harmful purposes less likely to use it (because what's the point if they're all calling themself that word anyway?).

If you feel like the word should only hold some kind of negative connotation, and that the groups that are the victims of these words should have to deal with this and never be allowed to break out of that kind of prison, I'd say that's a pretty racist mindset.

What does it hurt you for them to take the word back?

[mellzie14]

As a black woman, I can say that I don't really like anyone using it. My roommate last year (she was white) had a black boyfriend who essentially lived with us and he used the word all the time. I didn't like it at all. Most of my black friends (with some exceptions) don't use it. I completely understand trying to reclaim it though. I just think, now, that people shouldnt use it because of the mixed messages thing. I can see both sides of the argument, and my opinion is that it should not be used at all.

[pcyph]

Meh, I still think that there are plenty of other cases doing the EXACT same thing with different words, but because the N-Word was used so prominently years ago and has been placed as "The Worst of The Worst Words" that we pay more attention to it.

At the end of the day, I'll quote Cartel

"Say what you want"

[thespearkid]

I don't so much want permission to say it, because I don't need permission to. I suppose it's simply my ego, but I don't like the fact that there's still double standards and they're based off the color of the person's skin. That being said, I do not at all consider myself a racist, and believe that the word should never be used in a negative way.
Again, it's got nothing to do with skin color.

[TK]

Again, it's got nothing to do with skin color.

I don't see how you can argue it doesn't have to do a little with skin color. Yes, part of it is the context and usage of the word, but if a white person and black person both used the word in a hateful way, who gets more heat about it? Jesse Jackson was a fine example of it.

[musicfiend]

As a black woman, I can say that I don't really like anyone using it. My roommate last year (she was white) had a black boyfriend who essentially lived with us and he used the word all the time. I didn't like it at all. Most of my black friends (with some exceptions) don't use it. I completely understand trying to reclaim it though. I just think, now, that people shouldnt use it because of the mixed messages thing. I can see both sides of the argument, and my opinion is that it should not be used at all.
I don't agree. I am Black as well and use the word in every day speech to my friends and family. My friends and I use the word very frequently. I fell that there should be no restrictions at all to the word. And if you just happened to be on the wrong side of the tracks and with the wrong group of people, just watch what you say.

[nikaidoh]

I think overall, that you can't ban any word, simply because that law would be unconstitutional. And considering the word n.igger or n.igga can be used by anybody anyways (although it's sometimes considered distasteful), the word itself doesn't take anybody's freedoms away, nor does it cause anybody any real harm.

[cscwell107]

Oh, and since we are on the subject of offensive words, how about Cracker, and Honkie? Anyone bothered, or offended by those?

Personally as a white boy, im not offended by "cracker" or "honkie" at all

[thespearkid]

I don't see how you can argue it doesn't have to do a little with skin color. Yes, part of it is the context and usage of the word, but if a white person and black person both used the word in a hateful way, who gets more heat about it? Jesse Jackson was a fine example of it.
Very good point.

[open mind]

Which is why I said there's still a double standard. If a white newscaster or celebrity would have said that about Obama, he would have been persecuted and labeled a racist and bigot.

well you don't see people crying racism when a italian rips into another italian and calls them a wop....but if a black person says it italians would almost automattically say it was a racist.....so this phenomenon applies to all ethnicities to one degree or another.

[TK]

well you don't see people crying racism when a italian rips into another italian and calls them a wop....but if a black person says it italians would almost automattically say it was a racist.....so this phenomenon applies to all ethnicities to one degree or another.

Just because a thing is acceptable, does not mean it's right. You have a point, it's true for the most part, and I can understand that. But I still think it's wrong. It's being biased by one's ethnicity, which by definition, is racisim.

[open mind]

Just because a thing is acceptable, does not mean it's right. You have a point, it's true for the most part, and I can understand that. But I still think it's wrong. It's being biased by one's ethnicity, which by definition, is racisim.

i'd argue that just because a word can be used to express a racist attitude it doesn't mean it's always racist to say it.

[TK]

i'd argue that just because a word can be used to express a racist attitude it doesn't mean it's always racist to say it.

Oh no, I wasn't saying it's racist to say the word. I just think there is some amount of racism behind making a word more socially acceptable for one race to say than another race.

[oldwirehands]

I do not see it as a word referring to any minority. I've gotten yelled at by older black men for using it while being drunk though (I get loud). Not really yelled at but they definitely let me know that they were not happy. Of course I felt horrible about it but its not my fault that my black AND white friends use it (for comedic value) often and their language rubs off on me.

Personally, I don't take language all too seriously in general. So I could care less what people say unless their intent is to really hurt someone. I am careful to choose non-offensive words but some times (mostly under the influence of alcohol) I slip up and am very apologetic about it.

People just need to learn laugh more than hate.

[ghostyouare]

I'm surprised no one has mention Jesse Jackson usage of the word referring to Obama. Double standards are still very alive on the use of the word, rather it's with hate or use in a friendly way.
Jesse Jackson certainly did not use it in a friendly way, and it outraged the black community, so enough of this `double standard` shit. The context doesnt matter, there were plenty of white people during the 50s 60s and 70s that thought they were `down with the cause` and continued to use the word but didnt realize that its still offensive. Yes, we get it, you have a black friend that doesnt mind that you say it, congrats, that doesnt apply to every black person. Yes, slavery is over but racism isnt nor is the bitterness that still dwells. Yes, we get that you probably arent a racist but get over the fact that you piss off some one for saying the N-word. Yes, other persons will say `cracker` or `honkey` and its not as offensive, get over it, its apples and oranges. The term was used among fellow slaves, its nothing new or some cultural phenomenon so the black community as learned the word AMONGST THEMSELVES with no lingering hatred.

[TK]

Jesse Jackson certainly did not use it in a friendly way, and it outraged the black community, so enough of this `double standard` shit. The context doesnt matter, there were plenty of white people during the 50s 60s and 70s that thought they were `down with the cause` and continued to use the word but didnt realize that its still offensive. Yes, we get it, you have a black friend that doesnt mind that you say it, congrats, that doesnt apply to every black person. Yes, slavery is over but racism isnt nor is the bitterness that still dwells. Yes, we get that you probably arent a racist but get over the fact that you piss off some one for saying the N-word. Yes, other persons will say `cracker` or `honkey` and its not as offensive, get over it, its apples and oranges. The term was used among fellow slaves, its nothing new or some cultural phenomenon so the black community as learned the word AMONGST THEMSELVES with no lingering hatred.

Would the black community have been more outraged if the person was white? In my opinion, yes. All I was trying to say is that there is a double standard based off one's ethnicity on the social acceptance on the usage of the word. You might consider me a idiot, a racist, a arrogant moran, whatever, but I think it's wrong.

My personal opinion on the matter is it should be socially acceptable to be used by all or by none. I respect people who disagree. I am not black, I cannot say how it feels to be black and hear the n-word. I never use the word, so I could care less if people started using it or socially labeled it on the levels of a cuss word. I just do not like, in my opinion, the double standards that come with it when used in a negative way.

[ghostyouare]

Would the black community have been more outraged if the person was white? In my opinion, yes. All I was trying to say is that there is a double standard based off one's ethnicity on the social acceptance on the usage of the word. You might consider me a idiot, a racist, a arrogant moran, whatever, but I think it's wrong.

My personal opinion on the matter is it should be socially acceptable to be used by all or by none. I respect people who disagree. I am not black, I cannot say how it feels to be black and hear the n-word. I never use the word, so I could care less if people started using it or socially labeled it on the levels of a cuss word. I just do not like, in my opinion, the double standards that come with it when used in a negative way.
Forgive me but i think youre just ignorant on the matter, not a racist but ignorant. I dont see how there can be a black or white to this subject. You seem to think that you should be entitled to say it without offensive because one group can say it and for no other reason. It has nothing to do with empathy but rather with an understanding of the history of the word. The whole jesse jackson situation wasnt as bad as it would have been had it been a white person but its just a whole house/field relation thing, in the end of the day hes still black, he still has gone through the perils. Also, you can hear the difference in the way black and white people say the N-word in a derogatory term.

[TK]

Forgive me but i think youre just ignorant on the matter, not a racist but ignorant. I dont see how there can be a black or white to this subject. You seem to think that you should be entitled to say it without offensive because one group can say it and for no other reason. It has nothing to do with empathy but rather with an understanding of the history of the word. The whole jesse jackson situation wasnt as bad as it would have been had it been a white person but its just a whole house/field relation thing, in the end of the day hes still black, he still has gone through the perils. Also, you can hear the difference in the way black and white people say the N-word in a derogatory term.

You can think what you want of me, I do not claim to be very knowledgeable on the subject. I suppose our personal opinions just differ, because of lack of information maybe, I don't know. I disagree with you, and I'll leave it at that.

[speakhandsforme]

Forgive me but i think youre just ignorant on the matter, not a racist but ignorant. I dont see how there can be a black or white to this subject. You seem to think that you should be entitled to say it without offensive because one group can say it and for no other reason. It has nothing to do with empathy but rather with an understanding of the history of the word. The whole jesse jackson situation wasnt as bad as it would have been had it been a white person but its just a whole house/field relation thing, in the end of the day hes still black, he still has gone through the perils. Also, you can hear the difference in the way black and white people say the N-word in a derogatory term.

Woah, let's not throw Jesse Jackson's name into a house/field argument and assign to his background with any "perils". Though his actions aren't near as detrimental as those of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson still often misrepresents the black community and sets racial relations back. The fact is that Jesse Jackson has never experienced the suffering that has plagued the cotton fields of the slavery days, nor has he faced the poverty and street-lifestyle of modern African Americans. Jackson attended an integrated U of I on a sports scholarship. I'm sure he's faced some racial roadblock, yes, but nothing even comparable to what others have faced.

[bung]

i say use it whenever. and why does this site automatically block the word?

******

******

Absolute Punk is a dictatorship.

[thesafeword]

Jesse Jackson certainly did not use it in a friendly way, and it outraged the black community, so enough of this `double standard` shit. The context doesnt matter, there were plenty of white people during the 50s 60s and 70s that thought they were `down with the cause` and continued to use the word but didnt realize that its still offensive. Yes, we get it, you have a black friend that doesnt mind that you say it, congrats, that doesnt apply to every black person. Yes, slavery is over but racism isnt nor is the bitterness that still dwells. Yes, we get that you probably arent a racist but get over the fact that you piss off some one for saying the N-word. Yes, other persons will say `cracker` or `honkey` and its not as offensive, get over it, its apples and oranges. The term was used among fellow slaves, its nothing new or some cultural phenomenon so the black community as learned the word AMONGST THEMSELVES with no lingering hatred.
That bitterness really shouldn't be there though, what happened to those slaves didn't happen to you. It was a rough time in our country inwhich we made a lot of mistakes, but we've fixed that and you have a good life without slavery and racism. And you can't say that ****** is offensive and slurs for white people aren't just because we're able to shrug them off. A slur is slur regardless.

[thespearkid]

That bitterness really shouldn't be there though, what happened to those slaves didn't happen to you. It was a rough time in our country inwhich we made a lot of mistakes, but we've fixed that and you have a good life without slavery and racism. And you can't say that ****** is offensive and slurs for white people aren't just because we're able to shrug them off. A slur is slur regardless.
400 years of inequality doesn't disappear that quickly. Blacks have only had full equal rights in America for 40-50 years. Our race still hasn't recovered from slavery/segregation, etc. Personally, I think it's amazing that, after having our culture and identity taken away from us, we've managed to create a completely different racial identity (whether that identity is good or bad...) and the n-word is a part of that identity. It's easy to understand why some blacks would prefer to keep it in our community.

[speakhandsforme]

400 years of inequality doesn't disappear that quickly. Blacks have only had full equal rights in America for 40-50 years. Our race still hasn't recovered from slavery/segregation, etc. Personally, I think it's amazing that, after having our culture and identity taken away from us, we've managed to create a completely different racial identity (whether that identity is good or bad...) and the n-word is a part of that identity. It's easy to understand why some blacks would prefer to keep it in our community.

Well, that prominent racial idenity is what I find somewhat baffling. There are so many (not all) African Americans complaining about not being accepted into the American culture and claiming to want a universal color-blindness....yet, black America has its own 1) fasion code 2) music genre 3) dialect 4) tv channel 5) entertainment genre 6) awards establishments [in which House of Paynes recently reached an award....what the fuck? HOP is widely considered one of the worst shows ever made] and 7) consolidated sense of succession and independence that borders on a conscious deviance from the country's embrace. You don't see such actions from Asian Americans or Hispanic Americans. If you go to Europe, a black man sounds just like a white man; you come here, and you can tell the difference between the two just by dialects.

Now, I'm not completely ignorant. I do know that much of this is derived from economic consistencies, with subcultures arising within black ghettos but, at some point, the aforementioned factors reach the point of being unnecessary.

[thespearkid]

Well, that prominent racial idenity is what I find somewhat baffling. There are so many (not all) African Americans complaining about not being accepted into the American culture and claiming to want a universal color-blindness....yet, black America has its own 1) fasion code 2) music genre 3) dialect 4) tv channel 5) entertainment genre 6) awards establishments [in which House of Paynes recently reached an award....what the fuck? HOP is widely considered one of the worst shows ever made] and 7) consolidated sense of succession and independence that borders on a conscious deviance from the country's embrace. You don't see such actions from Asian Americans or Hispanic Americans. If you go to Europe, a black man sounds just like a white man; you come here, and you can tell the difference between the two just by dialects.

Now, I'm not completely ignorant. I do know that much of this is derived from economic consistencies, with subcultures arising within black ghettos but, at some point, the aforementioned factors reach the point of being unnecessary.
Asians and Hispanics do have their own fashion, awards, channels, etc (although I have to disagree on you that blacks have our own music genre. Genres can't belong to a race). I don't think any race should have to give up their identity just to be accepted as Americans.

[speakhandsforme]

In no way can one compare the protruding nature of the African American subculture to those of Asian and Hispanic Americans. The latter two have small differences which are directly tied to the customs that they have brought from their original country. African Americans, on the other hand, have willfully developed several new and outstanding customs amidst an opposing culture within their own nation, creating a division.

It's like the difference between reviving a fashion trend from an eariler time period for the sake of continuity and recollection and the act of creating a whole counter-culture outfit, initially for the sake of establishing an identity, an action that ultimately segregates the universal culture.

[musicfiend]

In no way can one compare the protruding nature of the African American subculture to those of Asian and Hispanic Americans. The latter two have small differences which are directly tied to the customs that they have brought from their original country. African Americans, on the other hand, have willfully developed several new and outstanding customs amidst an opposing culture within their own nation, creating a division.

It's like the difference between reviving a fashion trend from an eariler time period for the sake of continuity and recollection and the act of creating a whole counter-culture outfit, initially for the sake of establishing an identity, an action that ultimately segregates the universal culture.
By new and outstanding customs and even this division, what do you mean?

[thespearkid]

In no way can one compare the protruding nature of the African American subculture to those of Asian and Hispanic Americans. The latter two have small differences which are directly tied to the customs that they have brought from their original country. African Americans, on the other hand, have willfully developed several new and outstanding customs amidst an opposing culture within their own nation, creating a division.

It's like the difference between reviving a fashion trend from an eariler time period for the sake of continuity and recollection and the act of creating a whole counter-culture outfit, initially for the sake of establishing an identity, an action that ultimately segregates the universal culture.
Possibly the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. The only difference in African American culture compared to Asian American or Hispanic American is that our culture developed here in America. To be fair, whites didn't want blacks to be a part of their culture and identity so we were forced to create our own. In case you've forgotten, Jim Crow laws and segregation created the division, not African Americans.

[HashHolly]

That bitterness really shouldn't be there though, what happened to those slaves didn't happen to you. It was a rough time in our country inwhich we made a lot of mistakes, but we've fixed that and you have a good life without slavery and racism. And you can't say that ****** is offensive and slurs for white people aren't just because we're able to shrug them off. A slur is slur regardless.

Indeed, and yet slavery and its aftermath still continue to affect African Americans till this day.

Racism doesn't exist, are you really trying to say racism is no more....bitch, are you retarded?

[speakhandsforme]

Possibly the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. The only difference in African American culture compared to Asian American or Hispanic American is that our culture developed here in America. To be fair, whites didn't want blacks to be a part of their culture and identity so we were forced to create our own. In case you've forgotten, Jim Crow laws and segregation created the division, not African Americans.

Alright, it's the same. I'm gonna go watch some AET, use all my Asian American-derived colloquialisms like "word" and "dope", all the while wearing my ghetto-fabulous attire which, of course, I have adopted from the booming super power of Asian America.

Face it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but in no way is there any other minority group as culturallly identifiable as African Americans. That's not to say that all colors: black, white, and yellow alike don't also adopt the given lifestyles marketed by blacks but still: the source is obvious.

Now, African American colloqialisms and such are much more modern and thus more "hip" than perhaps those of Asian and Hispanic origins but that doesn't change the fact that African American culture is much much much more prominent than the others.

EDIT: And the Jim Crow laws are long outdated. The CULTURAL division that I speak of is relatively new...having only been in development for about 25 years (well, at least out of the earlier developmental stages).

[thespearkid]

Alright, it's the same. I'm gonna go watch some AET, use all my Asian American-derived colloquialisms like "word" and "dope", all the while wearing my ghetto-fabulous attire which, of course, I have adopted from the booming super power of Asian America.

Face it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but in no way is there any other minority group as culturallly identifiable as African Americans. That's not to say that all colors: black, white, and yellow alike don't also adopt the given lifestyles marketed by blacks but still: the source is obvious.

Now, African American colloqialisms and such are much more modern and thus more "hip" than perhaps those of Asian and Hispanic origins but that doesn't change the fact that African American culture is much much much more prominent than the others.

EDIT: And the Jim Crow laws are long outdated. The CULTURAL division that I speak of is relatively new...having only been in development for about 25 years (well, at least out of the earlier developmental stages).
Hispanics have their own channels, fashion, colloquialisms ("homes" and "esse", for example). Every minority race has it's own culture. Black culture just seems more prominent because we're the most prominent minority group, I assume. Jim Crow laws aren't long outdated. 40-50 years is nothing. Roughly, one generation. There's still a mental division of the races leftover from segregation. White people created the division.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the use of the n-word unless you're trying to argue that blacks shouldn't have their own culture but I don't think you're saying that.

[speakhandsforme]

Hispanics have their own channels, fashion, colloquialisms ("homes" and "esse", for example). Every minority race has it's own culture. Black culture just seems more prominent because we're the most prominent minority group, I assume. Jim Crow laws aren't long outdated. 40-50 years is nothing. Roughly, one generation. There's still a mental division of the races leftover from segregation. White people created the division.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the use of the n-word unless you're trying to argue that blacks shouldn't have their own culture but I don't think you're saying that.

No, as you assumed, that is not my point. I can't say I really had a definite point other than there are some blemishes on the ideals of black progression.

Another example of said blemishes is the nature of lyrical subject matter in modern rappers, one of the most important panels of black representation. I'm not a huge hip hop listener but my personal favorite is Nas (I don't know if you're familiar).
He's a brilliant lyricist but many of his songs revolves around black oppression and how militant force is the means by which to revolt. Frankly, I don't care about the sentiment but what does get to me is his (and other rappers') prejudice against homosexuals as the word "f@g" is becoming more and more frequently used. I would think one would either avoid the subject of racism all together or take the alternate route of fighting both racism and prejudice against deviant sexuality. Now, that's not a widespread problem by any means...just a thought.

[thespearkid]

No, as you assumed, that is not my point. I can't say I really had a definite point other than there are some blemishes on the ideals of black progression.

Another example of said blemishes is the nature of lyrical subject matter in modern rappers, one of the most important panels of black representation. I'm not a huge hip hop listener but my personal favorite is Nas (I don't know if you're familiar).
He's a brilliant lyricist but many of his songs revolves around black oppression and how militant force is the means by which to revolt. Frankly, I don't care about the sentiment but what does get to me is his (and other rappers') prejudice against homosexuals as the word "f@g" is becoming more and more frequently used. I would think one would either avoid the subject of racism all together or take the alternate route of fighting both racism and prejudice against deviant sexuality. Now, that's not a widespread problem by any means...just a thought.
I'm a big fan of Nas. Did he call anyone a f.ag or refer to homosexuals as f.ags? Which song are we talking about here? And to be totally fair, hip hop lyrics aren't the best way to make a judgment on the black race.

[thesafeword]

Indeed, and yet slavery and its aftermath still continue to affect African Americans till this day.

Racism doesn't exist, are you really trying to say racism is no more....bitch, are you retarded?
Racism is still alive, but not nearly as much of a pressing matter as it has been in previous times.

[thespearkid]

Racism is still alive, but not nearly as much of a pressing matter as it has been in previous times.
Yes it is. Especially in the South.

[pcyph]

Yes it is. Especially in the South.

To be fair, yes it's still a big deal, but nobodies being sent to the back of the bus, being denied service from restaurants, or being oppressed by the government. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but let's be rational.

Also, question,

I don't like the term African-Americans to be honest, I'm not a European-American, my friend Kevin isn't an Asian-American, he's just asian. Is "black" or "african" or some other term racist or out of place to say?

I just can't wrap my head around the name, and I say that in the least racist and most understanding way possible.

[thespearkid]

To be fair, yes it's still a big deal, but nobodies being sent to the back of the bus, being denied service from restaurants, or being oppressed by the government. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but let's be rational.

Also, question,

I don't like the term African-Americans to be honest, I'm not a European-American, my friend Kevin isn't an Asian-American, he's just asian. Is "black" or "african" or some other term racist or out of place to say?

I just can't wrap my head around the name, and I say that in the least racist and most understanding way possible.
That kind of thinking is the biggest problem with race relations in modern times. So many people see that minorities no longer sit on the back of the bus and they automatically assume blacks should be grateful and move on. Unfortunately, we're still the poorest race in the world and, as much as "enlightened" people would like to disagree, it's because of segregation and slavery. We still haven't recovered from it.

As far as "African-American" goes, blacks didn't start calling ourselves that; white people did. Personally, I prefer "black" because it's shorter haha.

[Nevuk]

To be fair, yes it's still a big deal, but nobodies being sent to the back of the bus, being denied service from restaurants, or being oppressed by the government.
ahahahahahahhahahahahaahahahah. Its not hard to argue that the government is the largest source of racist actions in america today. (Police stereotyping, etc.)

[pcyph]

Police stereotyping isn't the government stepping in saying, "DUDE LOOK ITS A BLACK PERSON, ARREST HIM", there are no laws in use that hurt black people exclusively.

[Nevuk]

Police stereotyping isn't the government stepping in saying, "DUDE LOOK ITS A BLACK PERSON, ARREST HIM", there are no laws in use that hurt black people exclusively.
I can name several off the top of my head. Compare the penalties for crack cocaine to cocaine possession. In my hometown, the high school's were seperated so all of the inner city, poorer people went to one school. Meaning almost every black person in they city, while the rich white people went to the other one. There were around 900 people there. It had 8 black people when I graduated, the other school had between 200 and 300. Is that a federal government thing? No, it was a local thing. One person owned over half the land in the county. But it was still governmental.

[HashHolly]

ahahahahahahhahahahahaahahahah. Its not hard to argue that the government is the largest source of racist actions in america today. (Police stereotyping, etc.)

Police stereotyping isn't the government stepping in saying, "DUDE LOOK ITS A BLACK PERSON, ARREST HIM", there are no laws in use that hurt black people exclusively.

Racial profiling does exist.

[HashHolly]

To be fair, yes it's still a big deal, but nobodies being sent to the back of the bus, being denied service from restaurants, or being oppressed by the government. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but let's be rational.

Also, question,

I don't like the term African-Americans to be honest, I'm not a European-American, my friend Kevin isn't an Asian-American, he's just asian. Is "black" or "african" or some other term racist or out of place to say?

I just can't wrap my head around the name, and I say that in the least racist and most understanding way possible.

They are parts of the DEEP south where things like this still occur.....

Wiki Says:

African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.[5] In the United States, the term is generally used for Americans with at least partial Sub-Saharan African ancestry. Most African Americans are the descendants of captive Africans who survived the slavery era within the boundaries of the present United States, although some are — or are descended from — voluntary immigrants from Africa, the Caribbean, South America, or elsewhere.[6] African Americans make up the single largest racial minority in the United States,[7] though Hispanics compose the largest ethnic minority.[8]

[pcyph]

They are parts of the DEEP south where things like this still occur.....

Wiki Says:

African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.[5] In the United States, the term is generally used for Americans with at least partial Sub-Saharan African ancestry. Most African Americans are the descendants of captive Africans who survived the slavery era within the boundaries of the present United States, although some are — or are descended from — voluntary immigrants from Africa, the Caribbean, South America, or elsewhere.[6] African Americans make up the single largest racial minority in the United States,[7] though Hispanics compose the largest ethnic minority.[8]


1. I understand police do that, I'm saying the government doesn't tell them to.

2. Do such harsh events still take place in the deep south? If so I'm sorely mistaken on the matter, I'm actually very very sympathetic. I understand individuals being racist, but whole corporations and establishments? That's a little eye-opening and frankly quite saddening.

Again, I support the use of the "n-word" by the African-Americans, I just am arguing my beliefs for the sake of it.

[thespearkid]

1. I understand police do that, I'm saying the government doesn't tell them to.

2. Do such harsh events still take place in the deep south? If so I'm sorely mistaken on the matter, I'm actually very very sympathetic. I understand individuals being racist, but whole corporations and establishments? That's a little eye-opening and frankly quite saddening.

Again, I support the use of the "n-word" by the African-Americans, I just am arguing my beliefs for the sake of it.
To answer number 2, yes, it still does. You'd be surprised at some of the obviously racist things people are able to get away with down here since the police and mayors are all just as racist. Google "Jena 6".

[allthruwinter]

You can't stop someone from saying what they want to say. But our generation is totally fucking ignorant towards that word and its origins and in all honesty to say that black people are allowed to say it because 'we changed the meaning towards something positive' is recycling hate. Pop culture and artists like Nas and countless others make the problem even worse by exploiting it, making it seem like it's okay because they're black AND did something with their lives. Well if they really wanted to 'do something' with their lives they'd dead that word in the black community because it's negative no matter how you look at it, and using it amongst ourselves gives everyone else the rights to it, further making it rear it's ugly origin all over again. I wish I could force people to open their fucking eyes and see how stupid they sound calling their own friends and brothers that shit.

[allthruwinter]

To be fair, yes it's still a big deal, but nobodies being sent to the back of the bus, being denied service from restaurants, or being oppressed by the government. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but let's be rational.

Also, question,

I don't like the term African-Americans to be honest, I'm not a European-American, my friend Kevin isn't an Asian-American, he's just asian. Is "black" or "african" or some other term racist or out of place to say?

I just can't wrap my head around the name, and I say that in the least racist and most understanding way possible.

I don't see anything wrong with calling someone black, I'm black. I'm not African-American because I was born in Barbados, both sides of my family generations back are from Barbados so unless I was in some shape or form connected to Africa, (which I am, as are all black people, but centuries ago) I would not choose to be labeled as such. As far as I'm concerned, you are where you're from, or grandparents, or great-grandparents, and that's just not my situation.

[pcyph]

To answer number 2, yes, it still does. You'd be surprised at some of the obviously racist things people are able to get away with down here since the police and mayors are all just as racist. Google "Jena 6".

Yea I heard about that, but I mean, the media bounces all over those things(aside from Fox)so I figured it was an isolated incident.

[thespearkid]

You can't stop someone from saying what they want to say. But our generation is totally fucking ignorant towards that word and its origins and in all honesty to say that black people are allowed to say it because 'we changed the meaning towards something positive' is recycling hate. Pop culture and artists like Nas and countless others make the problem even worse by exploiting it, making it seem like it's okay because they're black AND did something with their lives. Well if they really wanted to 'do something' with their lives they'd dead that word in the black community because it's negative no matter how you look at it, and using it amongst ourselves gives everyone else the rights to it, further making it rear it's ugly origin all over again. I wish I could force people to open their fucking eyes and see how stupid they sound calling their own friends and brothers that shit.
I can't stand people who keep saying things like that. A word is only a representation of a meaning. Meanings changed based on how a word is used.

[pcyph]

I can name several off the top of my head. Compare the penalties for crack cocaine to cocaine possession. In my hometown, the high school's were seperated so all of the inner city, poorer people went to one school. Meaning almost every black person in they city, while the rich white people went to the other one. There were around 900 people there. It had 8 black people when I graduated, the other school had between 200 and 300. Is that a federal government thing? No, it was a local thing. One person owned over half the land in the county. But it was still governmental.

Do you really think they went out of their way to do this so that Blacks specifically would be effected? Although I think the class separating is clearly bullshit, even if it is based on geographical location, clearly the richer side of town is getting the better education.

[allthruwinter]

I don't agree. I am Black as well and use the word in every day speech to my friends and family. My friends and I use the word very frequently. I fell that there should be no restrictions at all to the word. And if you just happened to be on the wrong side of the tracks and with the wrong group of people, just watch what you say.

But why do you use it? Aren't there positive, reassuring, loving words you can refer to your friends and family with instead of one that started out with such hatred? That word is venom to our community and nobody seems to realize it because they're too busy making excuses for how it doesn't 'mean the same thing now'.

[allthruwinter]

I can't stand people who keep saying things like that. A word is only a representation of a meaning. Meanings changed based on how a word is used.

People convince themselves that meanings change. You might think you changed a meaning, but you can never change the origin. When other races call each other ethnic slurs, it might be as a joke, or a one time thing. No other race continuously on a day to day, social basis calls themselves that same slur over and over again as a means of endearment. It's fucked up.

[thespearkid]

Do you really think they went out of their way to do this so that Blacks specifically would be effected?
I wouldn't shock me if so. You'd be surprised. Racism is very much alive and a lot of it is government promoted.

[Nevuk]

Do you really think they went out of their way to do this so that Blacks specifically would be effected? Although I think the class separating is clearly bullshit, even if it is based on geographical location, clearly the richer side of town is getting the better education.
I'm positive it was class based, at the least. I'm not so sure about the racial motivation, but I know that it was generally accepted by almost everyone that you got a better education from the rich school. I actually don't really know about that, either (I went to both districts in different years, found them both average). However, there was one white family who essentially held every position of importance in the county due to their wealth (owned a railroad company), and their children were going to school at the time the lines were drawn. I've been checking around in the last few minutes to see if there was anything about it on wiki, but no luck.

[thespearkid]

People convince themselves that meanings change. You might think you changed a meaning, but you can never change the origin. When other races call each other ethnic slurs, it might be as a joke, or a one time thing. No other race continuously on a day to day, social basis calls themselves that same slur over and over again as a means of endearment. It's fucked up.
Girls call each other sluts, gay guys call each other f@gs. No, the origin can't change, but the origin doesn't really matter if the current meaning is different. The origin of "gay" is different than from how it's used today but that doesn't mean anything.

[pcyph]

I'm aware racism is alive,

I'm just defending that it's clearly not as bad as the 50-60's. And before

Someone said something as if this were so earlier.

[pcyph]

Girls call each other sluts, gay guys call each other f@gs. No, the origin can't change, but the origin doesn't really matter if the current meaning is different. The origin of "gay" is different than from how it's used today but that doesn't mean anything.

Again, the whole slut and gay argument opened my eyes on this issue.

Thank you kind sir. Haha

[allthruwinter]

Girls call each other sluts, gay guys call each other f@gs. No, the origin can't change, but the origin doesn't really matter if the current meaning is different. The origin of "gay" is different than from how it's used today but that doesn't mean anything.

It's different when you are talking about a word that was used to hold down an entire race. A word that Thomas Jefferson used to write literature about and brainwashed nearly the entire nation to hold down and oppress and hate. I'm sorry but I could never use that word towards anybody, let alone another black person. Agree to disagree.

[HashHolly]

I'm aware racism is alive,

I'm just defending that it's clearly not as bad as the 50-60's. And before

Someone said something as if this were so earlier.

Kid, you have no idea what your talking about, please just stop......Racism is still going strong in America, it may not be as obvious, bt it is still strong.

[thespearkid]

It's different when you are talking about a word that was used to hold down an entire race. A word that Thomas Jefferson used to write literature about and brainwashed nearly the entire nation to hold down and oppress and hate. I'm sorry but I could never use that word towards anybody, let alone another black person. Agree to disagree.
Personally, I think it's a beautiful thing that blacks took the word away from whites, for lack of a better term. Like you said, it was used to hold down an entire race. At some point, we as a race decided that we weren't going to let ourselves be controlled by it anymore and that's an awesome testament to we blacks. But yes, agree to disagree sounds nice.

[WakeUpBlondie]

Personally, I think it's a beautiful thing that blacks took the word away from whites, for lack of a better term. Like you said, it was used to hold down an entire race. At some point, we as a race decided that we weren't going to let ourselves be controlled by it anymore and that's an awesome testament to we blacks. But yes, agree to disagree sounds nice.

You have the only valid opinion on this forum

The word is used amongst blacks and whites, as long as you know the person. My black friends call me ***** all the time

[open mind]

Oh no, I wasn't saying it's racist to say the word. I just think there is some amount of racism behind making a word more socially acceptable for one race to say than another race.

so there shouldn't be any consequences for the racist attitudes and policies that certain races have exhibited in the past?
i don't think the loss of social acceptability when it comes to the use of certain racial terms is to high a cost considering the past and present mistreatment of various minorities.

[thespearkid]

You have the only valid opinion on this forum

Not sure exactly what you mean by that.

[WakeUpBlondie]

Not sure exactly what you mean by that.


A person still has a good point if they're white, but since you're black you actually know what it's like first hand

if that makes since

[allthruwinter]

A person still has a good point if they're white, but since you're black you actually know what it's like first hand

if that makes since

He's not the only black person here, and not all of us agree with him.

[thespearkid]

A person still has a good point if they're white, but since you're black you actually know what it's like first hand

if that makes since
Yeah, I get what you're saying. allthruwinter is black too, I think, and she disagrees with me. HashHolly is black too?

[WakeUpBlondie]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. allthruwinter is black too, I think, and she disagrees with me. HashHolly is black too?

I was not aware haha.

[thespearkid]

I was not aware haha.
We need more black people on this site haha.

[pcyph]

Kid, you have no idea what your talking about, please just stop......Racism is still going strong in America, it may not be as obvious, bt it is still strong.

Seriously I completely agree racism is here, but your honestly saying that it's as bad as it was during the civil rights movement?

Enlighten me as to which news channel I can flick to while police release dogs and spray hoses as mostly peaceful protesters, remind me which bus companies have a policy to force blacks to the back of the bus.

[WakeUpBlondie]

We need more black people on this site haha.

I have noticed our lack on minorities. Appearently my friend is 1/32nd native American which is the last generation to be considered a minority so he gets some type of scholarship

[TK]

so there shouldn't be any consequences for the racist attitudes and policies that certain races have exhibited in the past?
i don't think the loss of social acceptability when it comes to the use of certain racial terms is to high a cost considering the past and present mistreatment of various minorities.

That's a slippery slope, if you want to have consequences for past racial wrong doings.
If minorities want to use words in a non-negative way with each other, and prefer that other races refrain from using the word in the same manner, I'm fine with that. However, if a person, regardless of their race, uses the word in a negative way, it is racist. In which case it shouldn't be treated differently because the color of one's skin, because racism is racism in my opinion.

[thespearkid]

Seriously I completely agree racism is here, but your honestly saying that it's as bad as it was during the civil rights movement?

Enlighten me as to which news channel I can flick to while police release dogs and spray hoses as mostly peaceful protesters, remind me which bus companies have a policy to force blacks to the back of the bus.
Stop it.

I have noticed our lack on minorities. Appearently my friend is 1/32nd native American which is the last generation to be considered a minority so he gets some type of scholarship
Hahaha that's awesome. I'm 1/8th Native American, 1/8th Jewish, and 3/4ths black so I've got some very oppressed races inside of me.

[WakeUpBlondie]

Stop it.


Hahaha that's awesome. I'm 1/8th Native American, 1/8th Jewish, and 3/4ths black so I've got some very oppressed races inside of me.

I wish i were an eight something. i'm all white :-(

i do have 3 black aunts (by marriage) if that counts

[TK]

Stop it.


Racism isn't as bad as it used to be. It might not have gotten a lot better in your opinion, but I don't see how you can say it hasn't improved at all.

[thespearkid]

Racism isn't as bad as it used to be. It might not have gotten a lot better in your opinion, but I don't see how you can say it hasn't improved at all.
You're not black. You don't live in the South. You don't know.

[Nevuk]

I have noticed our lack on minorities. Appearently my friend is 1/32nd native American which is the last generation to be considered a minority so he gets some type of scholarship
Huh? I'm 1/8 (great-grandmother) and I get no benefits. You also have to have tribal affiliations, and the cherokee nation is based around 400 miles away from anywhere I've lived.

[TK]

You're not black. You don't live in the South. You don't know.

I'm not, I don't.

Is there still segregation in schools across the nation? Is it socially acceptable for a white person and a black person to be friends? Do we have different bathrooms?

Racism might be very bad, like you said, I am not black, and I do not live in the South. But it is better than it was 100 years ago, although you have the right to disagree with me. This is just my opinion.

[WakeUpBlondie]

I'm not, I don't.

Is there still segregation in schools across the nation? Is it socially acceptable for a white person and a black person to be friends? Do we have different bathrooms?

Racism might be very bad, like you said, I am not black, and I do not live in the South. But it is better than it was 100 years ago, although you have the right to disagree with me. This is just my opinion.

you have fucking bambi as your avatar

[TK]

you have fucking Fox and the Hound as your avatar

Fixed.

And bitch, you better respect it too.:twoguns:

[WakeUpBlondie]

Fixed.

And bitch, you better respect it too.:twoguns:


lawlz my bad.

I have complete respect now

[Nevuk]

Fixed.

And bitch, you better respect it too.:twoguns:
Not creepy in teh slightest.

[speakhandsforme]

I'm a big fan of Nas. Did he call anyone a f.ag or refer to homosexuals as f.ags? Which song are we talking about here? And to be totally fair, hip hop lyrics aren't the best way to make a judgment on the black race.
Listen to the album Stillmatic (personally my favorite Nas album). From calling Jay Z a "cock-sucking ******" and referring to Rockafella records as "little ******s" in "Ether" to implying in "Every Ghetto" that a guy he once knew got aids from having "**** suck him off". Some of the quotes might be somewhat paraphrased but same effect nonetheless. The funny thing is that those two songs are some of my favorites.

[TK]

lawlz my bad.

I have complete respect now

Okay, then it's all good.
I'm glad I don't have to online kick your ass with smiles, check out my skills



:-):-(:-|:-pM-(:mrt:0:-):stickout::music::shhh::ugo:;-):-d:-0X-):wave::thumbup::ymca::rohan::tied: :perv::yuk::punk::locked::rolleyes: :tongue::uhno::suave::jawdrop::whin e::soccer:

[TK]

Not creepy in teh slightest.

I'm a full of creepiness:shrug:

[thespearkid]

I'm not, I don't.

Is there still segregation in schools across the nation? Is it socially acceptable for a white person and a black person to be friends? Do we have different bathrooms?

Racism might be very bad, like you said, I am not black, and I do not live in the South. But it is better than it was 100 years ago, although you have the right to disagree with me. This is just my opinion.
There's school reshuffling going on to make sure the poorest (minority heavy) communities all have to go to school together. I once dated a girl and when her parents found we were dating, they took her out of the school and threatened me with a restraining order. At my high school, we had the "white" bathroom and the "black" bathroom (as well as several other examples of de jure segregation). This isn't to the point of "disagreeing". This is someone who knows talking to someone who doesn't.

Listen to the album Stillmatic (personally my favorite Nas album). From calling Jay Z a "cock-sucking ******" and referring to Rockafella records as "little ******s" in "Ether" to implying in "Every Ghetto" that a guy he once knew got aids from having "**** suck him off". Some of the quotes might be somewhat paraphrased but same effect nonetheless. The funny thing is that those two songs are some of my favorites.
Again, Nas is a bit of radical so I don't think he's pertenant in this dicussion. Awesome album though.

[WakeUpBlondie]

Okay, then it's all good.
I'm glad I don't have to online kick your ass with smiles, check out my skills



:-):-(:-|:-pM-(:mrt:0:-):stickout::music::shhh::ugo:;-):-d:-0X-):wave::thumbup::ymca::rohan::tied: :perv::yuk::punk::locked::rolleyes: :tongue::uhno::suave::jawdrop::whin e::soccer:


holy tits how'd you do that so fast

[open mind]

That's a slippery slope, if you want to have consequences for past racial wrong doings.
If minorities want to use words in a non-negative way with each other, and prefer that other races refrain from using the word in the same manner, I'm fine with that. However, if a person, regardless of their race, uses the word in a negative way, it is racist. In which case it shouldn't be treated differently because the color of one's skin, because racism is racism in my opinion.

slippery slope? what exactly might we slip into?
someone using a racist term in anger against one of their own just isn't the same as a stranger of another race doing it.........get used to it.

[musicfiend]

But why do you use it? Aren't there positive, reassuring, loving words you can refer to your friends and family with instead of one that started out with such hatred? That word is venom to our community and nobody seems to realize it because they're too busy making excuses for how it doesn't 'mean the same thing now'.
It's just something that I grew up around. I have friends that don't say it and they don't get offended when I say it either. I didn't say it didn't mean the same thing. I don't think that the word is venom either I just think that people have to be mindful in certain settings when using the word.

[TK]

There's school reshuffling going on to make sure the poorest (minority heavy) communities all have to go to school together. I once dated a girl and when her parents found we were dating, they took her out of the school and threatened me with a restraining order. At my high school, we had the "white" bathroom and the "black" bathroom (as well as several other examples of de jure segregation). This isn't to the point of "disagreeing". This is someone who knows talking to someone who doesn't.


Again, Nas is a bit of radical so I don't think he's pertenant in this dicussion. Awesome album though.

So in your honest opinion, things haven't improved in America in the past 100 years?

holy tits how'd you do that so fast

Skillz bro, skillz.

[open mind]

I'm not, I don't.

Is there still segregation in schools across the nation? Is it socially acceptable for a white person and a black person to be friends? Do we have different bathrooms?

Racism might be very bad, like you said, I am not black, and I do not live in the South. But it is better than it was 100 years ago, although you have the right to disagree with me. This is just my opinion.

the ways in which racism manifests itself have changed, but that doesn't mean the root problem is any better then before.

[TK]

slippery slope? what exactly might we slip into?
someone using a racist term in anger against one of their own just isn't the same as a stranger of another race doing it.........get used to it.

I'm done arguing. I think it's wrong, you don't.
Let's gree to disagree.

the ways in which racism manifests itself have changed, but that doesn't mean the root problem is any better then before.

Racism is still here. It's still very well alive.
I think your statement is true, except I think America has made progress with our generation, you and others might disagree. But again, let's agree to disagree.

[thespearkid]

So in your honest opinion, things haven't improved in America in the past 100 years?

Blacks aren't slaves anymore and we can vote. That's the brunt of the improvement, as far as I've seen with my own eyes. I'm sure it's better up North and out West than it is down here though.

[open mind]

I'm done arguing. I think it's wrong, you don't.
Let's gree to disagree.



Racism is still here. It's still very well alive.
I think your statement is true, except I think America has made progress with our generation, you and others might disagree. But again, let's agree to disagree.

this generation doesn't hold the reins of power just yet...and if it's true that this generation is less racist then ones in the past i've met more then my fair share of young racists.

[TK]

Blacks aren't slaves anymore and we can vote. That's the brunt of the improvement, as far as I've seen with my own eyes. I'm sure it's better up North and out West than it is down here though.

I'm sorry if I offended you earlier, I do not know where you're coming from. Where I have lived, and live, it is not bad(from what I know). I think we can both agree America has a lot of room for improvement, so I'll end with that.

[TK]

this generation doesn't hold the reins of power just yet.

Perhaps, but it's getting closer I think.

[thesafeword]

Racism isn't nearly nothing now compared to what it has been, and while there may be a few cases around the country in the end it's so much better. You guys are just being stubburn and holding grudges for what happened a while ago. You don't have shit compared to what your parent(s) had and they sure as hell didn't go through that for you to bitch about the occasional thing. Oh. I know, it's so easy for me to say that because I'm white, but where I went to middle school there were as many if not more hispanics than whites and I've been called shit, but you don't see me complaining about everytime I hear cracker or whatever. And you don't see white guys calling each other racial slurs for each other. All I'm trying to get at is that things have improved so much these days and you shouldn't get offended by every little thing.

[open mind]

Racism isn't nearly nothing now compared to what it has been, and while there may be a few cases around the country in the end it's so much better. You guys are just being stubburn and holding grudges for what happened a while ago. You don't have shit compared to what your parent(s) had and they sure as hell didn't go through that for you to bitch about the occasional thing. Oh. I know, it's so easy for me to say that because I'm white, but where I went to middle school there were as many if not more hispanics than whites and I've been called shit, but you don't see me complaining about everytime I hear cracker or whatever. And you don't see white guys calling each other racial slurs for each other. All I'm trying to get at is that things have improved so much these days and you shouldn't get offended by every little thing.

why am i not suprised that you're white?
we still have plenty of policies and laws in place that are inherently racist and culturally insensitive..........and i don't see how going to a school in which whites weren't an overwhelming majority has much of anything to do with the amount of racism in existence today.

[thesafeword]

What laws?

[pcyph]

Blacks aren't slaves anymore and we can vote. That's the brunt of the improvement, as far as I've seen with my own eyes. I'm sure it's better up North and out West than it is down here though.

much better, I hang out with several of my black friends numerous times a week and have never witnesses a racist act to the best of my knowledge. even if it's that bad in the south And not anywhere else, isn't that an improvement itself? Because a large portion of the country as a whole improved?

[thespearkid]

much better, I hang out with several of my black friends numerous times a week and have never witnesses a racist act to the best of my knowledge. even if it's that bad in the south And not anywhere else, isn't that an improvement itself? Because a large portion of the country as a whole improved?
I suppose, although since I live in the South, it doesn't matter much to me. In fact, it's sort of sad that after 50 years, an entire region of the U.S. is still pretty bad when it comes to racism.

[thesafeword]

Yeah, in the South I think that it's because the generation that grew up where racism is okay and that rubs off onto their kids, it's a vicious cycle.

[thespearkid]

Yeah, in the South I think that it's because the generation that grew up where racism is okay and that rubs off onto their kids, it's a vicious cycle.
Indeed. Just about all of white friends have racist parents.

[Nevuk]

It was gandhi who said poverty is the greatest source of violence, I think. The south is one of the poorest parts of the nation, most of the racist whites are called rednecks, white trash, etc. and generally despised by the rest of the country. Living in KY, I've met some people who were horrible racists. However, most of the worst were also dirt poor and lashing out at every group even marginally different from them. I'm talking middle-school drop-outs who have to spend the rest of their lives working as a fast-food chef. That these people turn around and vote republican is absolutely mind-boggling, as republican economic policies are the most damaging to them, and they make up its strangest bloc. Does that excuse their views? No. It is a source of the problem in the area.

This problem is distinctly Southern, and has its roots hundreds of years ago. In the Civil War, the average Confederate soldier owned 0 slaves and frequently wasn't even a land-owner. However, they were fighting to preserve the rights of an oppressive aristocratic class who rarely even noticed the war was on. [Really, the south at the time heavily romanticized feudalism, as is evident by some of the popular novels in the ante-bellum period] Reconstruction was initiated to stop this, but instead resulted in Carbetbagging and driving the South further and further into poverty. A teacher of mine once described the logic behind why so many non-slaveowners tried to preserve slavery as "I may have nothing, but at least I'm better than them". This same logic led to Jim Crow, as frequently the only thing any of them had to feel better about was that they weren't black. I'm not justifying this at all. Its a horrendous world view and part of the problem holding back many Southern communities, however Southern racism is a hugely complex issue and not as clear cut as it is frequently made out to be.

[open mind]

What laws?

no child left behind, the large differences in sentencing between cocaine compared to crack, and capital punishment immediately come to mind.

[thesafeword]

no child left behind, the large differences in sentencing between cocaine compared to crack, and capital punishment immediately come to mind.
I've seen this crack/cocaine thing come up a few times, can you please explain this further?

[thespearkid]

I've seen this crack/cocaine thing come up a few times, can you please explain this further?
Crack is cheap drug mainly used in the ghettos where there's a large black/hispanic population and you spend more time in jail for possessing it or selling it than for cocaine, which is used by richer people in Hollywood and in the music world because it's more expensive.

[open mind]

Crack is cheap drug mainly used in the ghettos where there's a large black/hispanic population and you spend more time in jail for possessing it or selling it than for cocaine, which is used by richer people in Hollywood and in the music world because it's more expensive.

...and you can make alot of crack out of a bit of cocaine.

[thespearkid]

Is it wrong that I always refer to this thread in my head as "the ***** thread"?

[Nevuk]

...and you can make alot of crack out of a bit of cocaine.
And to get more specific :
"There has been some controversy over the disproportionate sentences mandated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_sentencing) by the Federal Sentencing Guidelines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Sentencing_Guidelines) for crack cocaine since 1987. Whereas it is a 5-year minimum sentence for trafficking 500g of powdered cocaine, the same sentence can be imposed for mere possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine, a 100:1 ratio. There is no mandatory minimum sentence for mere possession of powder cocaine" (From wiki. I'm being lazy.)

[speakhandsforme]

Is it wrong that I always refer to this thread in my head as "the ***** thread"?
yeah it is, racist

and, as the post above me states, the punishment for posession of crack cocaine is insane. You can ruin the better part of your mortal life by selling a minimal amount of crack.

[travisjeffery]

if barack obama becomes president, it doesn't matter either way.
that destroys the race card.

[thespearkid]

if barack obama becomes president, it doesn't matter either way.
that destroys the race card.
You're an idiot.

[Nevuk]

if barack obama becomes president, it doesn't matter either way.
that destroys the race card.
are you high?

[thespearkid]

are you high?
Sad part is, a lot of people are going to think the exact same thing if Obama is elected.

[HashHolly]

if barack obama becomes president, it doesn't matter either way.
that destroys the race card.

Bitch are you retarded? Do you think just because Barack Obama has gotten this far that all of a sudden everything changes? Fact: As long as they're people that wont vote for him primarily because of the color of his skin your argument is null and void.

[Nevuk]

Sad part is, a lot of people are going to think the exact same thing if Obama is elected.
Republicans have already started saying it because we have a black presidential candidate. Or at least, I've heard some say that. Maybe Colbert did ...

[pcyph]

I don't like Obama, but it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. I don't like McCain all that much either. Hell I don't like politicians. But in the end I think I would(if I could)vote for McCain.

[HashHolly]

I don't like Obama, but it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. I don't like McCain all that much either. Hell I don't like politicians. But in the end I think I would(if I could)vote for McCain.

Thank god you wont (cause you cant)

[thesafeword]

McCain says that Obama is playing the race card. He's just mad that he won't be able to continue ruining the world after Obama is elected.

[speakhandsforme]

I don't like Obama, but it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. I don't like McCain all that much either. Hell I don't like politicians. But in the end I think I would(if I could)vote for McCain.

Sadly, this is more or less the mindset and general knowledge of the average American voter. Believe it.

[x togepi x]

Bitch are you retarded? Do you think just because Barack Obama has gotten this far that all of a sudden everything changes? Fact: As long as they're people that wont vote for him primarily because of the color of his skin your argument is null and void.

fact: as long as the phrase "race card" exists, his argument is null and void. the entire concept behind the phrase "race card" is to put minorities on the defensive when they rightfully are calling people out on racism.

[pcyph]

Thank god you wont (cause you cant)

Seriously believe me I HATE both of them.

I don't think I'll even vote when I can,

all this hub-bub when in the end not a WHOLEEE lot changes.

[speakhandsforme]

Seriously believe me I HATE both of them.

I don't think I'll even vote when I can,

all this hub-bub when in the end not a WHOLEEE lot changes.

First off, congrats on being able to determine who you "HATE" by subjective reporting and inconclusive commercials (which, as you've implied, you've paid little if any attention to). And, furthermore, if Gore had been elected over Bush, we would almost certainly never engaged ourselves in a spur-of-the-moment war (in which the average American has no philosophical investment). So, yes, the magnitude surrounding the presidential race is warranted as the difference between candidates can be quite important.

[pcyph]

First off, congrats on being able to determine who you "HATE" by subjective reporting and inconclusive commercials (which, as you've implied, you've paid little if any attention to). And, furthermore, if Gore had been elected over Bush, we would almost certainly never engaged ourselves in a spur-of-the-moment war (in which the average American has no philosophical investment). So, yes, the magnitude surrounding the presidential race is warranted as the difference between candidates can be quite important.

I don't believe in people period,

and why go out and vote when I'm uneducated on the subject?

Wouldn't the country be better if only people who gave a shit voted? This is why that whole "get up and vote" on MTV is bullshit, I'd rather have people who cared even if MTV didn't tell them to voting.

[thesafeword]

Seriously believe me I HATE both of them.

I don't think I'll even vote when I can,

all this hub-bub when in the end not a WHOLEEE lot changes.
You can't complain if you don't vote.

[Fedaykin]

You can't complain if you don't vote.

A ridiculous premise, in my opinion

I live in Chicago, and whether I vote for Mickey Mouse or Homer Simpson, Obama will win the IL electoral seats just as surely as his rival will win in Texas. My vote? It does not matter. So if I don't show up to the polls, the outcome remains unaffected. Why then would I be precluded from voicing my opinion?

[PlacesToGo]

white people stop fucking saying it.

[chaosB4storm]

white people stop fucking saying it.

all people start fucking saying whatever you want.

[thespearkid]

A ridiculous premise, in my opinion

I live in Chicago, and whether I vote for Mickey Mouse or Homer Simpson, Obama will win the IL electoral seats just as surely as his rival will win in Texas. My vote? It does not matter. So if I don't show up to the polls, the outcome remains unaffected. Why then would I be precluded from voicing my opinion?
You're looking at it all wrong.

all people start fucking saying whatever you want.
All people understand that just because you can say something, doesn't mean you should.

[concernedparent]

Alright, it's the same. I'm gonna go watch some AET, use all my Asian American-derived colloquialisms like "word" and "dope", all the while wearing my ghetto-fabulous attire which, of course, I have adopted from the booming super power of Asian America.

Face it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but in no way is there any other minority group as culturallly identifiable as African Americans. That's not to say that all colors: black, white, and yellow alike don't also adopt the given lifestyles marketed by blacks but still: the source is obvious.

Now, African American colloqialisms and such are much more modern and thus more "hip" than perhaps those of Asian and Hispanic origins but that doesn't change the fact that African American culture is much much much more prominent than the others.

EDIT: And the Jim Crow laws are long outdated. The CULTURAL division that I speak of is relatively new...having only been in development for about 25 years (well, at least out of the earlier developmental stages).
Dude you're just straight wrong on this! You must be growing up in an area without hispanics/asians. Asians and hispanics have very unique identities, and do have a LOT of their own styles, slang, tv shows, etc etc, much like black people do. Black culture's just a bit more mainstream.

[concernedparent]

Consensus: America's still racist, but not quite as racist as before. Room for improvement. The word "******" will continue to be used as long as people feel like using it, and will probably go out of fashion eventually. But really, it's not the word that's the problem, that's just nitpicking over the bigger issue.

[speakhandsforme]

Dude you're just straight wrong on this! You must be growing up in an area without hispanics/asians. Asians and hispanics have very unique identities, and do have a LOT of their own styles, slang, tv shows, etc etc, much like black people do. Black culture's just a bit more mainstream.

..I live in a town that hosts a large Mexican gang. A huge chunk of my area's population is Hispanic. Admittedly, we don't get many Asians or blacks though (which I guess I can accept, since I'm personally more attracted to Hispanic girls than the latter two and absolutely adore Mexican food). Nah, I'm probably not that superficial.

[Rudie2tone]

I think that either every one, black - white - whatever, should be able to use the n-word or no one should use it. Black people using it all the time on tv, on the radio and even in real life have people of other races hearing it and thinking it's okay for them to say it too.

What really pisses me off is that black people use it as a term of endearment.
I'm black but I would never call my little brother something that 100 years ago the slave master would have called him while he was whipping his back.

So my point is, black people of the world! If you use the n-word on a regular basis, don't get pissed that the white folk is calling you that as well because you're practically inviting them too.

Also it doesn't matter if the government makes it illegal to say because people will say it anyway.

[speakhandsforme]

I'm black but I would never call my little brother something that 100 years ago the slave master would have called him while he was whipping his back.
.

Haha, you need to brush up on your history, sweetheart.

But I agree with everything you said.

[Rudie2tone]

Haha, you need to brush up on your history, sweetheart.

Well yeah I'm probably a little off with the time line but I'm glad you get what I'm saying

[XxmagnesiumxX]

At first i thought that no one should be allowed to use the n-word because it is degrading and refers back to a time of seperation and horrible things. But then they were talking about it on the View, and Whoopi Goldberg made some excellent points. Whoppi was having this huge argument with Elizabeth, where Elizabeth was saying how she doesnt think its fair that shewould have to explain to her child that her black friend can say the n-word, but she couldnt. She thought it wasnt fair and that no one should be allowed to say it to begin with.

But then Whoopi said how we have totally different cultures, and unfortunatly thats just the way it is. She has a right to say it, and Elizabeth doesnt.

I think shes right. But i also think that the n-word is a term that now has a different meaning than it did 50 years ago. Im not saying that people dont use it in a degrading way, but i am saying that a lot of people now use it as a greeting, or a way to refer to a friend. Its different now. The thing is that the word has a history, and will contine to be debated on for a long time.

[concernedparent]

I'm black but I would never call my little brother something that 100 years ago the slave master would have called him while he was whipping his back.

Well it's possible the slave master might have said his name while whipping him too

[Yoakinawa]

Watching the View the other day, they were discussing the controversial "N" word. Obviously the african americans on the show were stating that it is not acceptable for a white person to use that word regardless of the content. What I do not understand is that african americans want to live in a world with equality yet distance themselves from the world by regulating our vocabulary. I understand that the word was used in a derogatory manner quite a few decades ago, but if the world is "so disrespectful", why would you call people of your own race a word that has been used against you in the past?

Too many times I have heard the phrase "It's because I'm black"... no it's not because you are black that you broke into this house and stole from these innocent people and got arrested for it... it's because you are an idiot...

After hurricane Katrina, my mother opened our Houston home to TWO families, buying them food, clothing and getting the parents jobs at the corporation she owns to get them back on their feet. One day she was curious as to why the two sets of parents did not show up for work... when she returned to our home, everything of value was gone... and so were the families. When the families were located and arrested by police (two white men) the parents stated that it must have been because they were black that they were being arrested.

It's ridiculous. If you want a world of equality, do not segregate yourselves. I served four years in the military and not one time did I attend an official function where the african americans weren't segregating themselves in their own little corner...

Doesn't make any sense.

[HashHolly]

Watching the View the other day, they were discussing the controversial "N" word. Obviously the african americans on the show were stating that it is not acceptable for a white person to use that word regardless of the content. What I do not understand is that african americans want to live in a world with equality yet distance themselves from the world by regulating our vocabulary. I understand that the word was used in a derogatory manner quite a few decades ago, but if the world is "so disrespectful", why would you call people of your own race a word that has been used against you in the past?

Too many times I have heard the phrase "It's because I'm black"... no it's not because you are black that you broke into this house and stole from these innocent people and got arrested for it... it's because you are an idiot...

After hurricane Katrina, my mother opened our Houston home to TWO families, buying them food,
clothing and getting the parents jobs at the corporation she owns to get them back on their feet. One day she was curious as to why the two sets of parents did not show up for work... when she returned to our home, everything of value was gone... and so were the families. When the families were located and arrested by police (two white men) the parents stated that it must have been because they were black that they were being arrested.

It's ridiculous. If you want a world of equality, do not segregate yourselves. I served four years in the military and not one time did I attend an official function where the african americans weren't segregating themselves in their own little corner...

Doesn't make any sense.

God bless the day Jason Tate eventually removes the ability to post in different colors....

Im not exactly sure why you link "its ok to say ******, because im black", with "its ok to commit a crime, because im black" because those are two different subjects.

Again, committing a crime has what exactly to do with the word ******? What exactly are you trying to get at over there?

Do you think that, i dunno maybe those black people you came across in the military associated with other black people because of, i dunno, cultural similarities maybe?


And please, for the future if you have something of intelligence to say, lets not use pink font, mmkay?

[Yoakinawa]

God bless the day Jason Tate eventually removes the ability to post in different colors....

Im not exactly sure why you link "its ok to say ******, because im black", with "its ok to commit a crime, because im black" because those are two different subjects.

Again, committing a crime has what exactly to do with the word ******? What exactly are you trying to get at over there?

Do you think that, i dunno maybe those black people you came across in the military associated with other black people because of, i dunno, cultural similarities maybe?


And please, for the future if you have something of intelligence to say, lets not use pink font, mmkay?

It's not just individuals in the military. It's ALMOST everyone I have come across. I am not saying that committing a crime has anything to do with the word. What I am saying is african americans (not all of them) strive for equality, but when you are using a word that was once used in a derogatory manner towards your race, why would you use it as a term of endearment? If you feel the need to still fight for equality, why segregate yourselves? Why if you have broken the law, it must have something to do with your race, not the fact that you broke the law?

[HashHolly]

It's not just individuals in the military. It's ALMOST everyone I have come across. I am not saying that committing a crime has anything to do with the word. What I am saying is african americans (not all of them) strive for equality, but when you are using a word that was once used in a derogatory manner towards your race, why would you use it as a term of endearment? If you feel the need to still fight for equality, why segregate yourselves? Why if you have broken the law, it must have something to do with your race, not the fact that you broke the law?

Its not just girls i see on the street. It's ALMOST every girl i come across. Im not saying that being evil, talking smack about people behind their backs, or sleeping around has anything to do with the word. What im saying is girls (not all of them) strive for quality, but when you are using a word that is still use in a derogatory manner towards your sex, why would you use it as a term of endearment? If you feel the need to still fight for equality, why segregate yourselves? Why, if you have done something immensly fucked, it must have something to do with being a bitch, not the fact that your just fucked up?

See what i did there? Should we also ban the word bitch? I mean, why is it ok for girls to call each other this, but it isn't for males, shouldn't we all be able to use the word, or no one at all?


Sure, ****** isnt as horrible as the word bitch but, really, where does it end?

Simple, everyone can use the word, however, there is a greater possibility that if a white person uses the word ****** they will be seen as an ignorant racist, or just knocked the fuck out...sorry kid, them's the brakes.

[Yoakinawa]

Its not just girls i see on the street. It's ALMOST every girl i come across. Im not saying that being evil, talking smack about people behind their backs, or sleeping around has anything to do with the word. What im saying is girls (not all of them) strive for quality, but when you are using a word that is still use in a derogatory manner towards your sex, why would you use it as a term of endearment? If you feel the need to still fight for equality, why segregate yourselves? Why, if you have done something immensly fucked, it must have something to do with being a bitch, not the fact that your just fucked up?

See what i did there? Should we also ban the word bitch? I mean, why is it ok for girls to call each other this, but it isn't for males, shouldn't we all be able to use the word, or no one at all?


Sure, ****** isnt as horrible as the word bitch but, really, where does it end?

Simple, everyone can use the word, however, there is a greater possibility that if a white person uses the word ****** they will be seen as an ignorant racist, or just knocked the fuck out...sorry kid, them's the brakes.

One, I never said the "N" word should be banned.
Two, I never said I was against using the word bitch or people using it to address myself.
I do not call women, men or dogs bitches...
Of course when a white person uses the word "******" or a derivative of the word, such as "*****", it is automatically assumed they mean it in a negative manner. That is not always the case. That is rarely the case these days. I think we have come a long way... we are just waiting for the rest of the world to do the same.

"Them's the brakes"???? Proper english would be greatly appreciated.

[Rudie2tone]

What I do not understand is that african americans want to live in a world with equality yet distance themselves from the world by regulating our vocabulary. I understand that the word was used in a derogatory manner quite a few decades ago, but if the word is "so disrespectful", why would you call people of your own race a word that has been used against you in the past?
That is everything that I was trying to say and more!
Black people are keeping the racism and hate alive by using the n-word
And I saw what Whoopi Goldberg, Elisabeth Hasslebeck and that other black lady on The View were saying on the issue and I thought that what they said, especially Whoopi, was exceedingly contradicting and hopelessly ignorant

[FScott]

It's probably my favorite word. Its the one I find myself using more than most. Especially when I need something or a service.

[XxmagnesiumxX]

I think that the n-word should only be said by black people, and anyone else should not be allowed. They have the right to say it and no one else. It is their choice to either say it, be offended by it or whatever. Whoopi was right in everything that she said. She agreed that it was offensive, but only she should be allowed to say it. I think that back in the day it was offensive, but now its used differently. But only black people should say it or be allowed to say it.

[HashHolly]

One, I never said the "N" word should be banned.
Two, I never said I was against using the word bitch or people using it to address myself.
I do not call women, men or dogs bitches...
Of course when a white person uses the word "******" or a derivative of the word, such as "*****", it is automatically assumed they mean it in a negative manner. That is not always the case. That is rarely the case these days. I think we have come a long way... we are just waiting for the rest of the world to do the same.

"Them's the brakes"???? Proper english would be greatly appreciated.

1. Others have, and rather than go through this thread again and quote every last person
2. And the point, it went right over your head; theres no reason for me to explain it, you either get it or you dont, and clearly you dont.
3. Dont care.
4. Hmm, please explain to me the situations where white people use the word ****** in a positive manner, outside of......well this great thread of course? If you think America has come a long way your fucking nuts, racism still exists, in full force.
5. Its a saying, and matter a fact, i can say whatever the fuck i want, however the fuck i want, welcome to the internet.
6. Using the normal font, in the normal color....that would be greatly appreciated because frankly if i didnt look over to check your age i would have easily assumed you were nothing more than a 14 year old girl.

7. ******, ******, ******.....******

[HashHolly]

I think that the n-word should only be said by black people, and anyone else should not be allowed. They have the right to say it and no one else. It is their choice to either say it, be offended by it or whatever. Whoopi was right in everything that she said. She agreed that it was offensive, but only she should be allowed to say it. I think that back in the day it was offensive, but now its used differently. But only black people should say it or be allowed to say it.

Im not for banning words, are disallowing the use of words, my bigger problem is why some white people fight so hard for it to be ok for them to use this word....hell if your going to continually say how derogatory it is, why do you want the social freedom to use it?

Use whatever word you want people, just prepare for the consequences of using those words, and if thats a problem, why not do the easier thing and just....i dunno, not use it?