Rise Against - 08.10.04 [Archive]

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Jamison Kane

08/10/04, 07:23 PM

AP.net: Which candidate will you be voting for in the upcoming election and why?

Tim: Unless something changes, I'll be voting for Kerry this fall. I don't think Kerry is a solution to all of our country's problems, but I think he's a vehicle to get us out of the hole that the Bush administration has dug us into and is continuing to dig even deeper. Someone needs to stop GW before the hole gets any bigger. This is not a band endorsement for Kerry, this is my personal viewpoint, and I simply encourage people to vote and have that vote be a product of their own decision, not the decision of the singer of some band.

AP.net: With regard to the White House and the next president, would any democrat be better than any republican, in your view? Are there exceptions?

Tim: If I had my way, Dennis Kucinich would be president! But unfortunately, in order to be president you have to be a millionaire with lots of corporate friends. Could any democrat be a better president? This is a ridiculous question, and of course there would be exceptions: like a neo-nazi, a racist, a sexist, a relative of George Bush, Adolf Hitler, etc.

I don't even think it's a question of Republican or Democrat, Bush is simply an idiot as a person! I wouldn't have even graduated high school with his public speaking skills! Didn't they teach that back then? Even Republicans are embarrassed by Bush, and rightfully so, he is representing them.

Pre-emptive war is an insane concept in this day and age. Absolutely insane. Hussein was a bad guy, but there are lots of bad guys in the world right now that we are ignoring. Why aren't we at war in Sudan where the Sudanese government has sponsored the ethnic cleansing in Darfur of 30,000 tribespeople this year!? The difference is that Hussein had oil. We've become modern day vikings. Innocent civilians have died by the thousands at the hands of Americans, that's who we are now and we have to deal with it.

AP.net: Is it responsible for voters to choose their candidate on the one issue that is most important to them (i.e., a person who votes for Bush because of his stance on abortion, while they disagree with his other policies)?

Tim: One can't help but feel especially passionate about specific issues. I'm not about to tell a woman who was raped that it is irresponsible to only care about a woman's right to choose. I'm not about to tell an environmentalist or a pacifist what they should care about more then just what's most important to them. The issues that resonate with us personally are the things that make up who we are as people.

Luckily, Bush has a bad record with just about everything he's had his hands in, so there isn't a lot of choice out there.

AP.net: Describe the roll that you feel music plays in rallying the youth of the nation to a political viewpoint. Do you see what you do as a necessity in today's world?

Tim: I do see it as a necessity. But that doesn't mean everyone else should, you need to make up your own mind about that. I feel like I have been given the privilege to hold a microphone in front of masses of people almost everyday of the year, and with that privilege comes responsibility. The punk rock I grew up on emphasized social awareness and change, standing up for yourself, and speaking out against what you disagree with. This is the torch that I've chosen to carry on to the next generation of punk rock.

Music was my rallying point, and I owe it to those bands to pass on that legacy, and I feel good doing it.

AP.net: What do you consider to be the most important issue facing young voters in the upcoming election and why?

Tim: There are so many issues. What's important for people to understand, is that 9/11, however senseless and irrational, was retaliation from years of shitty foreign policy by our government. We've been the bully of the middle-east for so long that someone decided to push back. So did we learn? No, since then, we've only stepped our bully techniques. Now I feel like it is only a matter of time before another 9/11 hits, because instead of learning a lesson from it, we only amplified the hate and violence outside our border.

Right now, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghanistan children are growing up without parents, brothers, sisters, and friends. They are growing up in a war-torn country all but destroyed. But they didn't do anything to deserve it. They had nothing to do with 9/11, they had nothing to do with supposed "weapons of mass destruction," and they had nothing to do with Saddam Hussein dictatorship. Hussein and Bin Laden are still alive. But these innocent civilians are dead. This next generation of victims are growing up with a hate for American deeply instilled, and this will only manifest into the next 9/11, when we are in those buildings, or maybe our sons and daughters are. We have secured our position as a terrorist target for years to come. Because of the Bush Administration and there careless decisions, we may never be safe again.

AP.net: Is it responsible for political bands to use their music to influence the minds of very young listeners (12-14 years old) who may only rally behind the band's message simply because they idolize the band, and not because they believe in the cause?

Tim: This world and the media uses its influence to teach children to be consumers, to not question authority, to disrespect women, that the environment isn't as important as SUVs, that violence is the answer to international problems, and that if you're going to get anywhere you have to "play the game."

But I should keep my mouth shut in fear of influencing a 12-14 year old to make up their own mind? Wake up.

We talk about what's going on in the world. If we didn't do that, that would be irresponsible. While the rest of the world is trying to turn 12-14 year olds into perfect little consumers who don't question anything, we are stressing a message of making up your own mind, even if that means making up your own mind about how you feel about Rise Against. That's fine. Everyone should be encouraged to make up their own mind, that is not irresponsible.

AP.net: How do you feel about movie stars getting involved in politics (i.e. Gary Coleman and Ah-nold the Gubernator)? On one hand, it is the write of the private citizen to run for election in public office, so why should certain
people be denied that right due to their fame? On the other, is it irresponsible for them to make this move into office while the eyes of every tabloid are constantly on them? Do candidates such as these make a mockery of public elections, in your view?
(Idea for question submitted by AP.net forum member VanillaClothing)

Tim: Americans first need to deal with their own idolatry of Hollywood stars before they attack the stars themselves. Americans are unable to separate the real Arnold from the movie star Arnold. The real Arnold is a womanizing racist, but our infatuation with Hollywood has secured him a place in government. That's our fault people.

AP.net: Have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11 and what are your thoughts on the film? Is it unfair to attack a public official by using footage that is largely taken out of context, in order to influence the minds of the audience through comedy? What do you think of Michael Moore and his agenda? Should the public trust the words of a man so clearly biased against the Bush White House?
(Idea for question submitted by AP.net forum member finch313)

Tim: Why the fuck are political documentaries made other then to inform and influence its audience? Gimme a break. Should we not be biased against the Bush White House? Should the public trust the words of George Bush instead, so "clearly-biased" against a Kerry White House? Should we trust no one and create no dialogue whatsoever, and not make incredibly important movies like Fahrenheit 9/11 that exposes information on the Iraqi war that Fox will never show you?

It's amazing to me that we are bombarded with brainwashing media messages and public relation campaigns everyday, but as soon as someone offers an alternate opinion, we talk about it being "out of context" or a specific attack on something. If there were a hundred more movies like "9/11," it wouldn't even begin to balance out the bullshit we are fed everyday by orporate owned media conglomerates. Media that refuses to show you casualties and destruction in Iraq. War sounds great when you see it on American TV. Long live Michael Moore and the people that follow in his footsteps.

As Americans, we watch TV that makes us feel comfortable, we watch movies that make us feel comfortable, not ones that make us think and deal with the reality we live in. That's why people are so offended by Fahrenheit 9/11. Because it questions your lazy-ass. Go see "Super-Size Me", "The Corporation", and "Fog Of War" while your at it.

AP.net: Let's talk about the band's involvement with PETA. What made you want to get involved in the first place? Do you agree with all of their doctrine, even the most extremist of it? Some of their policies, if viewed by the average American, would appear to be a little out there. Is your support for the organization unconditional?
(Idea for question submitted by AP.net forum member finch313)

Tim: Extremist? PETA is trying to eliminate the senseless pain, suffering and murdering of innocent animals. I don't see anything "extremist" about that. The "average American" is a brainwashed consumer, so I understand where anything that they don't see in a football game commercial could be seen as "a bit out there." They think punk rock is "a bit out there." They think mohawks and screaming into microphones and driving 6 hours to see your favorite band to spend the night getting shoved around a pit is "a bit out there." Do we give a shit? Punk rock has taught me compassion and
open-mindedness, and animal rights are part of living in a sustainable
society.

AP.net: Would you support anyone who votes against Bush, regardless of whether or not they know the facts (e.g. they are voting against him because, say, all their friends do, when in reality they don't know about the issues)? Is an "ignorant" vote against Bush still better than an "informed" vote for him?

Tim: Would I support ignorance? Of course not! Would I support an un-informed decision? Of course not!

This question is redundant and petty, c'mon people. There's a big picture, and your punk rock elitist politics of "I know more than you know," are getting in the way of something way more important. If you really have been under a fucking rock over the last four years and don't know shit about the Bush Administration, then get off this website and spend less time reading band interviews and more time paying attention to what's happening around you.

Bottom line here, I love this country, I feel proud to be an American. That's why its so sad to see current administration dragging our name through the dirt. That's why things have to change, and they will.

Thanks to all the Rise Against fans out there, you rule. We'll see you this fall with Bad Religion.

Four more years George Bush? Try three more fucking months.

projectmayhem16

08/10/04, 07:56 PM

*claps, that was amazing, that guy can articulate things I think about everyday but feel are sometimes intangible, Tim is a very sharp guy, great interview, best I've seen on this site yet

sundaysetsashes

08/10/04, 08:04 PM

yeah jamison. congratulations. he does fucking despise you. maybe because you didnt know a single fucking thing about his band a week ago. and your bleak, redundant, boring questions sure as hell didnt further your case...

...and now i wait for your reply and feel worse about myself while you belittle me and make your superelitist and subtle jokes. your soooo savvy.

Flags of Dawn

08/10/04, 08:12 PM

That was the most well-put, intelligent arguement to get bush out of office I've heard ever.

But I think Kerry is way worse.

fullcollapse88

08/10/04, 08:33 PM

That was the most well-put, intelligent arguement to get bush out of office I've heard ever.

But I think Kerry is way worse.

i'm curious as to why.

Burnout2888

08/10/04, 08:42 PM

That was the most well-put, intelligent arguement to get bush out of office I've heard ever.

I agree 100%.

guitarguy33

08/10/04, 08:53 PM

Very good interview.

crayZbuzzard

08/10/04, 09:52 PM

This guy Tim sucks at life. This interview was horrible.

Jamison Kane

08/10/04, 09:53 PM

ignitionnight

08/10/04, 10:00 PM

Very good interview.
im not sure i would call it a good interview, but it was some good comentary from tim.

Sureshot182

08/10/04, 10:02 PM

farenheit 9/11 was the stupidest piece of propaganda filled shit i have ever seen.

X__inhope

08/10/04, 10:06 PM

farenheit 9/11 was the stupidest piece of propaganda filled shit i have ever seen.
give us exampls on which parts were "propaganda", and what you have to back up your statements

CrpyPnkRck

08/10/04, 10:45 PM

give us exampls on which parts were "propaganda", and what you have to back up your statements

give me an example of what wasn't and back that up

oh snap

X__inhope

08/10/04, 10:55 PM

give me an example of what wasn't and back that up

oh snap
um.. i wasnt being an ass or anything.. i was just curious... thought it wouldnt be cool to hear the otherside of the story.. sorry..

Americant1984

08/10/04, 11:22 PM

i can give you a complete list of what was not crap...it was confirmed it the 911 comission report...ask and ill supply it to you

Jamison Kane

08/10/04, 11:56 PM

I just heard a funny joke. I will recount it.

"I am a member of PETA. Yes, that's right. People Eating Tasty Animals!"

Jason Tate

08/11/04, 12:03 AM

i can give you a complete list of what was not crap...it was confirmed it the 911 comission report...ask and ill supply it to you
Please do, because as of right this second, the film is still UNTOUCHED when it comes to being factual.

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 12:14 AM

Please do, because as of right this second, the film is still UNTOUCHED when it comes to being factual.
Bah.

Showing footage of a person golfing for two hours and making it appear as if that's all he ever does is not factual. It's manipulative. You could show 30 different shots at 30 different angles of me getting the mail, but does that mean it's all I ever do?

Tony

08/11/04, 01:09 AM

Bah.

Showing footage of a person golfing for two hours and making it appear as if that's all he ever does is not factual. It's manipulative. You could show 30 different shots at 30 different angles of me getting the mail, but does that mean it's all I ever do?
Watch the movie before you try to talk about it.

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 01:48 AM

Watch the movie before you try to talk about it.
No.

If I saw it, it would just make me angry, because I'd disagree with everything he said.

And I don't want to support the man with my $7.

Maybe I'll rent it when it's out on DVD. Maybe.

UL11

08/11/04, 02:47 AM

i love people that automatically attack this film without seeing it. doesn't make any sense to me. seems almost ignorant. anyways, great interview. tim is an amazing guy although i don't particularly agree with the fact that kerry will be better than bush. i'm hoping he will be, but i'm not so sure. and i love the fact that when i tell people i'm voting for nader they say i'm voting for bush. fuck them because i wouldn't vote for kerry either. nor would most people i know who are voting for nader. fuck politicians.

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 03:32 AM

i love people that automatically attack this film without seeing it. doesn't make any sense to me. seems almost ignorant..
While I understand where you're coming from with this, I really don't think I need to see the movie to know that it's going to be anti-Bush to a fault. Not that I'm in love with the guy or anything, but I don't think anyone else would be doing any better in his situation. A good way to put it is that I'm not pro-Bush, I'm anti-anti-Bush. If that makes any sense.

fuck politicians.
Well put. The only way third party candidates are ever going to gain some ground (and they should) is if people start thinking more like you. Don't worry about all the silly politics involved, just vote on the candidate that best represents your views! The United States isn't supposed to be a two-party system!

PeeDster

08/11/04, 05:21 AM

awesome interview.

bossman calling

08/11/04, 10:45 AM

This guy Tim sucks at life. This interview was horrible.
You are the most ignorant person on this site...if anyone sucks at life, it would be close minded fucks like you...you should consider changing your sig to "BUSH/CHENEY '04 (only 'cause my redneck parents say so). That's seriously how you come off when you try to talk politics.

give me an example of what wasn't and back that up

oh snap
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=16

what else do you need? Read that. Read the sources. Then talk.

Bah.

Showing footage of a person golfing for two hours and making it appear as if that's all he ever does is not factual. It's manipulative. You could show 30 different shots at 30 different angles of me getting the mail, but does that mean it's all I ever do?
If you have not seen the film, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEW FORTH ANY OPINION ON IT WHATSOEVER. It just makes you come off as completely ignorant. Go see this movie (hell, you can get a bootleg of it pretty easily if you don't want to support Moore), then we'll talk.

Well put. The only way third party candidates are ever going to gain some ground (and they should) is if people start thinking more like you. Don't worry about all the silly politics involved, just vote on the candidate that best represents your views! The United States isn't supposed to be a two-party system!
Way to contradict yourself. You say people should stop worrying about the politics, but then you act offended when someone does just that, and makes a valid and relevant documentary (that you refuse to see because you buy into the lies that conservatives have put out there, even though they themselves have not even seen it), about the bullshit and corruption surrounding the current administration??? Wow...

edit: great interview by the way. tim owns you.

nightjarWI

08/11/04, 11:27 AM

Great interview. I agree with him on so many levels. Rise against is incredible!!!

finchfan313

08/11/04, 11:33 AM

Maybe I'll rent it when it's out on DVD. Maybe.

October 5th.

Great interview. Rise Against was amazing at Warped Tour this year. Inspite of the fact that most of the people standing there were not even remotely getting into them. I'm glad I ditched my friends to see them. I can't wait for the new tour.

OnLegendary21

08/11/04, 11:34 AM

I love that "out of context" bit. The pure ownage of that peice was priceless.

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 11:36 AM

Way to contradict yourself. You say people should stop worrying about the politics, but then you act offended when someone does just that, and makes a valid and relevant documentary (that you refuse to see because you buy into the lies that conservatives have put out there, even though they themselves have not even seen it), about the bullshit and corruption surrounding the current administration??? Wow...

edit: great interview by the way. tim owns you.
I'm not "offended" by Michael Moore's film, so to speak. I just think he's a Bush biggot. He hates Bush so much that he can't possibly have a fair opinion. I like to get my opinions from unbiased sources--i.e., myself.

Me, I look at everything fairly, in my own view. I don't "buy into conservative lies," as you say. I'm not saying Bush is the best president. He's not. But he's handling it better than Gore would've, and certainly better than Kerry will if he gets a shot.

bossman calling

08/11/04, 11:48 AM

I'm not "offended" by Michael Moore's film, so to speak. I just think he's a Bush biggot. He hates Bush so much that he can't possibly have a fair opinion. I like to get my opinions from unbiased sources--i.e., myself.

Me, I look at everything fairly, in my own view. I don't "buy into conservative lies," as you say. I'm not saying Bush is the best president. He's not. But he's handling it better than Gore would've, and certainly better than Kerry will if he gets a shot.
How can you keep repeating that with all of the facts laid out in front of you? Why can't you grasp the fact that for once, alot of these so-called "Bush biggots" are right, and have presented clear facts about what is going on in with the country and in the world right now?

richter915

08/11/04, 11:50 AM

I'm not "offended" by Michael Moore's film, so to speak. I just think he's a Bush biggot. He hates Bush so much that he can't possibly have a fair opinion. I like to get my opinions from unbiased sources--i.e., myself.

Me, I look at everything fairly, in my own view. I don't "buy into conservative lies," as you say. I'm not saying Bush is the best president. He's not. But he's handling it better than Gore would've, and certainly better than Kerry will if he gets a shot.
wow, honestly...why did they pick you to interview Tim...the man knows what he's talking about...He's a man of morals and unlike most the pussies in the world he stands up for them to the end. He's not a Bush biggot...he's a man who hates Bush for just reasons because Bush's policies go against his moral beliefs.

I hope there's a draft...and I hope you get shipped off...people like you should go fight...enlist dude...seriously if you think Bush is handling this situation better than anyone...go enlist...I dare you.

handsdown29

08/11/04, 11:52 AM

This guy Tim sucks at life. This interview was horrible.

Dear "crazyzbuzzard",

I notice you’ve chosen to advertise your support for George W. Bush in his re-election race against John Kerry in your signature.

Have you fully considered the candidates, their backgrounds, their platforms and their voting records? Statistics show more and more Americans are not researching the candidates before casting their votes, they are merely voting for the candidate nominated by their political party without giving the issues adequate thought.

Consider the following:

- Bush has spent over 100 billion dollars in Iraq, leaving states to face the largest budget crisis in decades and forced to cut off public services.

- There are now 43 million Americans without health insurance.

- There are now 9 million Americans out of work—3.3 million more than when Bush took office.

- George W. Bush continuously refers to himself as a “war president,” yet has never served in the military during a war. Bush cut healthcare benefits for Vietnam veterans and was reportedly AWOL for over a year from the Texas Air National Guard, or as it’s referred to by other military outfits: “The Champagne Division.”

- Bush was the first President in history to refuse United Nations Election inspectors.

- George W. Bush has set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest a leader (over 10 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

- Under Bush’s “Clear Skies Initiative,” power plants are allowed to omit triple the amount of highly toxic mercury into the air.

- Bush pulled the United States out of the Kyoto global warming treaty, which had been agreed upon by 178 other countries.

George W. Bush Jr. is not a “laid-back rancher from Texas” like his advertisements will make him seem. This “makeover” of his image makes Bush out to be an “everyman:” a simple, honest, middle-to-upper class farmer. This could not be farther from the truth.

George W. Bush is neither compassionate nor conservative: Bush and friends constantly use social issues (gay marriage. abortion, religious issues) to further his own elitist economic agenda without ever delivering on said social issues. In other words, Bush gathers support from conservatives and then abandons them once elected by ignoring conservative social issues and enacting irresponsible economic policies.

Under George W. Bush, America has all but lost its global prestige and status as a superpower with the best quality of life for its citizens. George Bush has repeatedly misled the people of the United States and the world in his bid to conquer Iraq, a sovereign nation, against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

George W. Bush’s America is an America with a crippling dependence on Middle Eastern oil, an arrogant, self-righteous America with complete disregard for world opinion or the United Nations, an America that humiliates its prisoners-of-war and no longer abides by the Geneva conventions, a polarized, confused, frightened and duped America convinced of its own superiority and its ability to conquer other nations without any regard for humanity or what is best for its own citizens.

John Kerry will succeed where George W. Bush has clearly failed.

John Kerry and John Edwards will:

- Ensure global involvement in the rebuilding of Iraq.

- Modernize the world’s most powerful military to meet new threats.

- Free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil.

- Create new jobs, strengthen the middle class, and ensure educational opportunity for all

- Ensure a world class education with a great teacher in every class

- Provide high-quality health care and manage skyrocketing health care costs

- Restore dignity and respect to America and restore its status as a world superpower

Most polls show America equally divided between George W. Bush and John Kerry. I fear that this 50-50 split will only be driven farther apart should Bush be re-elected and continue his four years of deceit, arrogance and aggression. John Kerry can restore our country to a respected, global-minded, environmentally conscious and united America.

I thank you for taking your time to read my letter and educate yourself in this crucial election year. Now that you know the facts, all you have to do to change your profile is log in and view/edit your preferences!

See you in the new America,
Chase Stauffer
chasestauffer@hotmail.com

bossman calling

08/11/04, 11:58 AM

Dear "crazyzbuzzard",

I notice you’ve chosen to advertise your support for George W. Bush in his re-election race against John Kerry in your signature.

Have you fully considered the candidates, their backgrounds, their platforms and their voting records? Statistics show more and more Americans are not researching the candidates before casting their votes, they are merely voting for the candidate nominated by their political party without giving the issues adequate thought.

Consider the following:

- Bush has spent over 100 billion dollars in Iraq, leaving states to face the largest budget crisis in decades and forced to cut off public services.

- There are now 43 million Americans without health insurance.

- There are now 9 million Americans out of work—3.3 million more than when Bush took office.

- George W. Bush continuously refers to himself as a “war president,” yet has never served in the military during a war. Bush cut healthcare benefits for Vietnam veterans and was reportedly AWOL for over a year from the Texas Air National Guard, or as it’s referred to by other military outfits: “The Champagne Division.”

- Bush was the first President in history to refuse United Nations Election inspectors.

- George W. Bush has set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest a leader (over 10 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

- Under Bush’s “Clear Skies Initiative,” power plants are allowed to omit triple the amount of highly toxic mercury into the air.

- Bush pulled the United States out of the Kyoto global warming treaty, which had been agreed upon by 178 other countries.

George W. Bush Jr. is not a “laid-back rancher from Texas” like his advertisements will make him seem. This “makeover” of his image makes Bush out to be an “everyman:” a simple, honest, middle-to-upper class farmer. This could not be farther from the truth.

George W. Bush is neither compassionate nor conservative: Bush and friends constantly use social issues (gay marriage. abortion, religious issues) to further his own elitist economic agenda without ever delivering on said social issues. In other words, Bush gathers support from conservatives and then abandons them once elected by ignoring conservative social issues and enacting irresponsible economic policies.

Under George W. Bush, America has all but lost its global prestige and status as a superpower with the best quality of life for its citizens. George Bush has repeatedly misled the people of the United States and the world in his bid to conquer Iraq, a sovereign nation, against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

George W. Bush’s America is an America with a crippling dependence on Middle Eastern oil, an arrogant, self-righteous America with complete disregard for world opinion or the United Nations, an America that humiliates its prisoners-of-war and no longer abides by the Geneva conventions, a polarized, confused, frightened and duped America convinced of its own superiority and its ability to conquer other nations without any regard for humanity or what is best for its own citizens.

John Kerry will succeed where George W. Bush has clearly failed.

John Kerry and John Edwards will:

- Ensure global involvement in the rebuilding of Iraq.

- Modernize the world’s most powerful military to meet new threats.

- Free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil.

- Create new jobs, strengthen the middle class, and ensure educational opportunity for all

- Ensure a world class education with a great teacher in every class

- Provide high-quality health care and manage skyrocketing health care costs

- Restore dignity and respect to America and restore its status as a world superpower

Most polls show America equally divided between George W. Bush and John Kerry. I fear that this 50-50 split will only be driven farther apart should Bush be re-elected and continue his four years of deceit, arrogance and aggression. John Kerry can restore our country to a respected, global-minded, environmentally conscious and united America.

I thank you for taking your time to read my letter and educate yourself in this crucial election year. Now that you know the facts, all you have to do to change your profile is log in and view/edit your preferences!

See you in the new America,
Chase Stauffer
chasestauffer@hotmail.com
Where did you get that? I'd like to check out some of the facts.

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 12:40 PM

How can you keep repeating that with all of the facts laid out in front of you? Why can't you grasp the fact that for once, alot of these so-called "Bush biggots" are right, and have presented clear facts about what is going on in with the country and in the world right now?
See, this is the thing I don't get. Most liberals do a lot of complaining about what a poor state the nation is in right now. I just don't understand that. I think the United States kicks ass. Sure, we've got our problems, but we've still got more personal freedoms than almost anywhere else. We can sit here and have this discussion. I think that's pretty awesome.

Even in the "depressed" state that our economy is in, even the poorest of the poor in the US have shelters to go to, food to eat, a place to stay if they so choose. And most of us live like kings compared to most of the people of the world. I think that's badass as well. We have such an overabundance of resources in America.

That's why I support the war, when it comes down to it. I know it wasn't our official reason to go in or whatever, but we're liberating an entire race of people from oppression! We're finally doing something good with our resources! We're removing millions of the innocent citizens of Iraq from an effective slavery and setting them up with their own government! I think that's really awesome. The big guy helping the little guy. That's exactly the kind of country I live in.

I guess if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I can respect an honest pacifist, though I do think they're sorely mistaken. I don't know. Just my two cents.

richter915

08/11/04, 01:05 PM

ya you're right kane. But as we sit in our "palaces" why should we go destroy the homes of innocent civilians losing their loved ones and homes for something they didn't do...is it a crime that they live in Iraq?? I didn't choose to live where I do today...I doubt they could either. And the US is so great that when I go to a public park with my brothers and get attacked verbally and physically by little seventh graders...is that so great dude? that these little kids learn to attack those different from them...I thought racism was done but whatever...oh and I'm supposed to get shipped off to war to defend the liberties of kids like this? are you fucking kidding me.

and since you've fallen for bush's brainwashing...you know...Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL)...that's what it is...oh and so halliburton can get massive contracts to help rebuild Iraq and Cheney just happens to be VP...during the Berlin Airlift...to help rebuild Germany after WWII...no single company made as much money as halliburton is. I agree, helping a nation liberate itself is great but I don't think anyone should be making a profit cause someone's home was demolished...cause someone lost his or her loved ones.

also, you say we have such a surplus of resources at our disposal...why doesn't Bush try and help others in need of these resources by donating them instead of just saving them?? Why did Bush choose to cut so much money from AIDS funds to help the millions dying in Africa and elsewhere? How come his extreme religious views are causing the lives of thousands to be wasted?

Slater

08/11/04, 01:06 PM

John Kerry will succeed where George W. Bush has clearly failed.

John Kerry and John Edwards will:

- Ensure global involvement in the rebuilding of Iraq.

- Modernize the world’s most powerful military to meet new threats.

- Free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil.

- Create new jobs, strengthen the middle class, and ensure educational opportunity for all

- Ensure a world class education with a great teacher in every class

- Provide high-quality health care and manage skyrocketing health care costs

- Restore dignity and respect to America and restore its status as a world superpower

Most polls show America equally divided between George W. Bush and John Kerry. I fear that this 50-50 split will only be driven farther apart should Bush be re-elected and continue his four years of deceit, arrogance and aggression. John Kerry can restore our country to a respected, global-minded, environmentally conscious and united America.

I thank you for taking your time to read my letter and educate yourself in this crucial election year. Now that you know the facts, all you have to do to change your profile is log in and view/edit your preferences!

See you in the new America,
Chase Stauffer
chasestauffer@hotmail.com

Thanks for pointing out that John Kerry will fix each and every one of our problems. I never realized that Mr. Kerry was the second coming of Jesus F'n Christ.

After he makes America Heaven on Earth, he will walk across the Mississippi, turn the raging waters into cascading falls of wine, make the blind see, and drop Mana from Heaven.

Vote for John Kerry...... Chase Stauffer thinks he's God

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 01:09 PM

Thanks for pointing out that John Kerry will fix each and every one of our problems. I never realized that Mr. Kerry was the second coming of Jesus F'n Christ.

After he makes America Heaven on Earth, he will walk across the Mississippi, turn the raging waters into cascading falls of wine, make the blind see, and drop Mana from Heaven.

Vote for John Kerry...... Chase Stauffer thinks he's God
That was rather funny. Comedy points for the Ruben lover, over here.

richter915

08/11/04, 01:14 PM

Thanks for pointing out that John Kerry will fix each and every one of our problems. I never realized that Mr. Kerry was the second coming of Jesus F'n Christ.

After he makes America Heaven on Earth, he will walk across the Mississippi, turn the raging waters into cascading falls of wine, make the blind see, and drop Mana from Heaven.

Vote for John Kerry...... Chase Stauffer thinks he's God
hey buddy...go enlist and die for america ok? seriously...if you're supporting bush and the war...go die for america and what you believe is so "right" and "just"...please.

Just_Insane

08/11/04, 01:16 PM

farenheit 9/11 was the stupidest piece of propaganda filled shit i have ever seen.

haha that's about the dumbest thing i've ever heard....and the interview was fucking great

richter915

08/11/04, 01:20 PM

farenheit 9/11 was the stupidest piece of propaganda filled shit i have ever seen.
if the airwaves can be filled with republican propaganda...why can't this movie?

Slater

08/11/04, 01:24 PM

hey buddy...go enlist and die for america ok? seriously...if you're supporting bush and the war...go die for america and what you believe is so "right" and "just"...please.

Actually, I already did a 5 year enlistment, and served in Iraq. Thanks for the offer. I didn't die though. Because not every person sent to war dies, you know.

But hey, maybe I can just go jump of a fucking building, huh? Cause you're such a humanitarian and want me to die.

bossman calling

08/11/04, 01:27 PM

See, this is the thing I don't get. Most liberals do a lot of complaining about what a poor state the nation is in right now. I just don't understand that. I think the United States kicks ass. Sure, we've got our problems, but we've still got more personal freedoms than almost anywhere else. We can sit here and have this discussion. I think that's pretty awesome.

Even in the "depressed" state that our economy is in, even the poorest of the poor in the US have shelters to go to, food to eat, a place to stay if they so choose. And most of us live like kings compared to most of the people of the world. I think that's badass as well. We have such an overabundance of resources in America.

That's why I support the war, when it comes down to it. I know it wasn't our official reason to go in or whatever, but we're liberating an entire race of people from oppression! We're finally doing something good with our resources! We're removing millions of the innocent citizens of Iraq from an effective slavery and setting them up with their own government! I think that's really awesome. The big guy helping the little guy. That's exactly the kind of country I live in.

I guess if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I can respect an honest pacifist, though I do think they're sorely mistaken. I don't know. Just my two cents.
Wow...you're more naive than I thought.

First, I'm not a pacifist. I'm a realist. A war is absolutely necessary sometimes. Like if we were being invaded by the army of another nation, or if our allies were being invaded or threatened by the armies of another nation. Where was that happening here? Like it or not, Iraq was a Sovereign nation with no proven threat to any interests of the US or our Allies. The US Government put our own military directly in harms way to invade and take over, and eventually "liberate" a country over speculated and unproven threats, that turned out not to even exist in a significant form. How can you stand for that?

Our military men and women, who give their lives for you and I, to protect our nation, our interests, are sent over here to do the dirty work of a war that shouldn't have started like it did anyway you look at it.

Sure, Saddam was bad. Sure, eventually he needed to go. But our government did NOT exhaust all possible options to do so short of this war, in which thousands and thousands of innocent Iraqis (that you claim we helping and it's "awesome") are now dead, maimed and injured. Sure, Saddam was responsible for more, but this is like telling a group of kids you are going to save them from the neighborhood bully, but in doing so, you kill two of them, rape their mother and then kick their dog for good measure. There were better ways at doing this, and the wrong choice was made, and it's so obvious right now.

Oh not to mention the death toll of our soldiers will probably reach 1000 by the time we get out of there. And for what? A never-ending Quagmire, a police state, still without peace.

If we want to do something good with our resources, then why are there still homeless people in this country? Why are teachers grossly underpaid, and why is our secondary education system still not competitive among similar developed nations? Why are jobs being shipped overseas? Why are the richest business owners being handed tax breaks to line their pockets when they turn around and screw the workers even more? Why is the divide of rich and poor so great in this country as compared to others, when the work is still being done? Why does the world hate us, and why have our Allies looked down on our actions? You know the statement "United We Stand?" When it comes to international affairs like this, it goes for us and our allies alike. We failed because we were not united to begin with.

Yeah, we have it comparably great in this country. But why accept all of these shortcomings because you yourself feel great. Look around you, explore the facts. We can do better.

I voted for Bush last time. I used to believe in the Republicans, but after these last four years, all of that trust is gone. I'm in disbelief at how corrupt and out of touch they really are. That right there will not allow me to make that mistake again, even if Kerry isn't exactly a savior.

Jamison Kane

08/11/04, 02:07 PM

Wow...you're more naive than I thought.

First, I'm not a pacifist. I'm a realist. A war is absolutely necessary sometimes. Like if we were being invaded by the army of another nation, or if our allies were being invaded or threatened by the armies of another nation. Where was that happening here? Like it or not, Iraq was a Sovereign nation with no proven threat to any interests of the US or our Allies. The US Government put our own military directly in harms way to invade and take over, and eventually "liberate" a country over speculated and unproven threats, that turned out not to even exist in a significant form. How can you stand for that?

Our military men and women, who give their lives for you and I, to protect our nation, our interests, are sent over here to do the dirty work of a war that shouldn't have started like it did anyway you look at it.

Sure, Saddam was bad. Sure, eventually he needed to go. But our government did NOT exhaust all possible options to do so short of this war, in which thousands and thousands of innocent Iraqis (that you claim we helping and it's "awesome") are now dead, maimed and injured. Sure, Saddam was responsible for more, but this is like telling a group of kids you are going to save them from the neighborhood bully, but in doing so, you kill two of them, rape their mother and then kick their dog for good measure. There were better ways at doing this, and the wrong choice was made, and it's so obvious right now.
Then I guess our disagreement is in principle alone. I believe that human life is of the same value no matter what country it is from, and that the United States, as a powerful nation, has the right and responsibility to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I believe that we as a nation should not rest until everyone in the world can be safe from tyranny and oppression. You, apparently, do not believe that and feel that we should focus our resources more towards building our own interests up domestically. That's what it boils down to, really. That's fair enough. It's your right to feel that way, I just happen to disagree. No big deal really. That is why we can vote. It's pretty rad, if you think about it.

richter915

08/11/04, 03:06 PM

Actually, I already did a 5 year enlistment, and served in Iraq. Thanks for the offer. I didn't die though. Because not every person sent to war dies, you know.

But hey, maybe I can just go jump of a fucking building, huh? Cause you're such a humanitarian and want me to die.
no I never said commit suicide...that's your own choice and I think it's quite foolish if you did that. And I'm aware that not everyone dies in war...but then again not everyone dies on their way to work which sure as hell happened on 9/11. It's a great risk and I applaud you then for serving your nation. You are a war monger in my opinion and I'm gonna disagree with fighting for the people here who've made me feel like shit cause of my skin and religion (I'm Muslim).

did you attack/kill anyone while serving time in Iraq? did you torture any Iraqis not in accordance to the Geneva convention? For those reasons, it would be hard for me to have respect for any returning soldiers from Iraq...but ya. that's all.

richter915

08/11/04, 03:16 PM

Slater

08/11/04, 03:16 PM

no I never said commit suicide...that's your own choice and I think it's quite foolish if you did that. And I'm aware that not everyone dies in war...but then again not everyone dies on their way to work which sure as hell happened on 9/11. It's a great risk and I applaud you then for serving your nation. You are a war monger in my opinion and I'm gonna disagree with fighting for the people here who've made me feel like shit cause of my skin and religion (I'm Muslim).

did you attack/kill anyone while serving time in Iraq? did you torture any Iraqis not in accordance to the Geneva convention? For those reasons, it would be hard for me to have respect for any returning soldiers from Iraq...but ya. that's all.

Yes. I declared war against Iraq. It was me. And every single soldier, airman, sailor, and Marine declared war against Iraq.

Please show respect the returning military from Iraq, because they are fighting for our nation. Don't hold it against them because a few immature people acted like college students initiating the terrorists into a fraternity. It was childish and immature, but the majority of the military is over there helping the Iraqi people get along with their lives.

According to your logic, I should have no respect for Islam or the people who practice the religion because a few extremists in your religion beheaded (yeah, beheaded.... at least the Iraqis coming out of the prisons have a head to wear woman's underwear on) innocent civilians.

richter915

08/11/04, 03:16 PM

^^ I forgot to quote Kane's last comment...but that was a response to his last post.

X__inhope

08/11/04, 03:22 PM

No.

If I saw it, it would just make me angry, because I'd disagree with everything he said.

And I don't want to support the man with my $7.

Maybe I'll rent it when it's out on DVD. Maybe.
so let me get this straight, you've never even saw the movie, but you are gonna run your mouth like you no everything.. real cool

Slater

08/11/04, 03:25 PM

dude...isn't the authority on protecting nations and peoples from tyranny and oppression the responsibility and main purpose of the UN? and what did the US do for this war...it went AGAINST the UN...most the world didn't even like the US before...and now cause the US is more or less saying "ok UN, you can't tell US what to do cause we make up most the UN" and that's a horrible thing. Nations like France and Russia should be annoyed at the US. I think this war would be absolutely just if NATO as well as the UN approved of it...

and if the US is the authority of controlling the freedoms of everyone in the world according to you...why aren't we helping the 30,000 in Sudan who are being oppressed? What makes Iraq more important than the people in Sudan? (I hope you know the answer to that) And the whole purpose of going into the middle east was to help end terrorism...according to the recent CIA reports...Saddam Hussein last had contact with the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden in the 90s sometime...they also said that Iraq did not house weapons of mass destructions...those two claims are the things Bush said (Iraqis = terrorist, Iraq = weapons) which started this whole "liberation".

And what about other terrorist. Not all terrorists are Muslim as the media sometimes makes it seem. Timothy McVeigh, Nichols...these guys are White and they created Terror in the US. How about the kids responsible for Columbine...they're terrorists. There are many Scottish/Irish terrorists who've hijacked planes in the past...I forget the specific one but I know it happened...but again my point...this whole "war on terror" sounds to me like "war on tolerance and unity"...

So why didn't the UN act on Saddam's tyranny, or on his violations of countless UN Resolutions? Maybe because they were making billions off of the oil-for-food program?

Countries like Russia and France should feel ashamed that they basically ripped off the Iraqi people with this program... making money off of the suffering of the innocent Iraqi People.

Why isn't the UN acting on Sudan, if it's such a viable body to save the innocent people? Do you know the French nation has troops in Chad at the moment, and are not lifting their fingers to stop this at all?

Didn't a IED have a sarin warhead attached to it a couple of months ago? Unless Saddam only produced one binary shell, I think that's proof that Saddam had chemical weapons. Also, the traffic between Syria and Iraq was especially heavy after troop buildup in the region. Large oil-tanker looking vehicles (including a few HAZMAT vehicles) crossing the border up until the day the war started. It's possible the chemical weapons moved. He had months to move them, and every single intelligence agency in the world thought he had them. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I'm sorry people have insulted you or made you feel uncomfortable because of what you are. They should judge you for who you are. In the military, where we're side by side with people of all different backgrounds, you become colorblind, and don't notice small differences like skin-color or religion. Maybe that'll give you ONE reason to respect the military that keeps you safe at night.

richter915

08/11/04, 03:26 PM

Yes. I declared war against Iraq. It was me. And every single soldier, airman, sailor, and Marine declared war against Iraq.

Please show respect the returning military from Iraq, because they are fighting for our nation. Don't hold it against them because a few immature people acted like college students initiating the terrorists into a fraternity. It was childish and immature, but the majority of the military is over there helping the Iraqi people get along with their lives.

According to your logic, I should have no respect for Islam or the people who practice the religion because a few extremists in your religion beheaded (yeah, beheaded.... at least the Iraqis coming out of the prisons have a head to wear woman's underwear on) innocent civilians.
I didn't say you started the war...but at the same time you're not against it. I mean...the way you put it with that whole college hazing shit...makes it seem like it was a joke...I mean...joke or not those soldiers went against the conditions set forth by the world decades ago and the US agreed upon. This is another example of the US going against the world. I will hold it against them though...I am against killing of any sort...I think it's wrong. I saw the beheading of that civilian and I felt horrible...but then I thought...he is an innocent civilian...and I'm sure many civilians have been killed in this war. Not in that fashion, not as an act of retaliation...but it's been done.

And you must've misinterpreted what I said...I don't think you're against all Muslims at all. I posted something earlier about being at the receiving end of a hate crime recently...and I would not want to go to war to help defend these people who make me feel miserable for being how I am.

The only soldier I can whole-heartedly solute is the man who turned in those pricks at Abu-Gharib...I can't respect someone who has killed innocents...sorry...I just can't.

richter915

08/11/04, 03:33 PM

So why didn't the UN act on Saddam's tyranny, or on his violations of countless UN Resolutions? Maybe because they were making billions off of the oil-for-food program?

Countries like Russia and France should feel ashamed that they basically ripped off the Iraqi people with this program... making money off of the suffering of the innocent Iraqi People.

Why isn't the UN acting on Sudan, if it's such a viable body to save the innocent people? Do you know the French nation has troops in Chad at the moment, and are not lifting their fingers to stop this at all?

Didn't a IED have a sarin warhead attached to it a couple of months ago? Unless Saddam only produced one binary shell, I think that's proof that Saddam had chemical weapons. Also, the traffic between Syria and Iraq was especially heavy after troop buildup in the region. Large oil-tanker looking vehicles (including a few HAZMAT vehicles) crossing the border up until the day the war started. It's possible the chemical weapons moved. He had months to move them, and every single intelligence agency in the world thought he had them. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I'm sorry people have insulted you or made you feel uncomfortable because of what you are. They should judge you for who you are. In the military, where we're side by side with people of all different backgrounds, you become colorblind, and don't notice small differences like skin-color or religion. Maybe that'll give you ONE reason to respect the military that keeps you safe at night.
You obviously know more about this issue and I'm glad you do...you freakin fought for this you should know. It's not people like you who I don't have respect for...it's just some ignorant red necks out there who want to "kill sum 'raqis!" ya know? and I know you know they exist. But again with what you say against the UN, you can just replace it with US cause the US more or less said that it's better than the UN. Maybe France isn't doing anything cause the UN won't approve...I wish it did but the war in Iraq is taking up a lot of it's attention. I saw somewhere that many of those HAZMAT tanks as you say...they were just transporting water but before the war...the media said they were transporting chemicals.

I can try and respect hte soldiers but again...it's gonna be tough for me to do that after what I've experienced and cause of my moral disagreements with attacking civilians. I'm not a pacifist...if someone punches me I'll punch right back...but in this case...I don't think the US is punching the right person.

Slater

08/11/04, 03:44 PM

I didn't say you started the war...but at the same time you're not against it. I mean...the way you put it with that whole college hazing shit...makes it seem like it was a joke...I mean...joke or not those soldiers went against the conditions set forth by the world decades ago and the US agreed upon. This is another example of the US going against the world. I will hold it against them though...I am against killing of any sort...I think it's wrong. I saw the beheading of that civilian and I felt horrible...but then I thought...he is an innocent civilian...and I'm sure many civilians have been killed in this war. Not in that fashion, not as an act of retaliation...but it's been done.

And you must've misinterpreted what I said...I don't think you're against all Muslims at all. I posted something earlier about being at the receiving end of a hate crime recently...and I would not want to go to war to help defend these people who make me feel miserable for being how I am.

The only soldier I can whole-heartedly solute is the man who turned in those pricks at Abu-Gharib...I can't respect someone who has killed innocents...sorry...I just can't.

Will you salute the B-17 bomber from WWII, who had to bomb cities to destroy Germany's war-making capabilities. Innocent people died there, too.

The "torture" was not a joke, it was a disgrace. But it wasn't the most horrible thing I have ever seen. See those beheading videos? Those were barbarism in it's highest form.

If I saw anyone being teased, attacked, or berated because of their race or religion, you bet your ass I'd stand up for them. It's the minority of Americans that feel that way. Don't generalize the nation because of a few "rednecks" (which is a derogatory, generalizing term. Just say racists jackasses).

Do you know the whistleblower at Abu-Garib could have killed an innocent man during his time there? So how can you salute him wholeheartedly.

We never signed the Geneva Conventions. We only abide by their guidelines. And the people who violate them, they're being punished as we speak. It's great to live in a land where the bad are accountable for their actions. Plus, the people who we detain must be under uniform fighting for a soverign nation to be held under the Geneva guidelines. These terrorists are not a uniformed fighting force fighting under a soverign nation

I support this war wholeheartedly. Did things happen that I would have done differently? You betcha. But I think that our reasons to go to war were right, and you can't convince me otherwise..... unless you have a receipt signed by Cheney to Halliburton saying "Here's your payoff. Pay me in 5 more years", or actual proof we went to war for oil or profit.

richter915

08/11/04, 07:11 PM

Will you salute the B-17 bomber from WWII, who had to bomb cities to destroy Germany's war-making capabilities. Innocent people died there, too.

The "torture" was not a joke, it was a disgrace. But it wasn't the most horrible thing I have ever seen. See those beheading videos? Those were barbarism in it's highest form.

If I saw anyone being teased, attacked, or berated because of their race or religion, you bet your ass I'd stand up for them. It's the minority of Americans that feel that way. Don't generalize the nation because of a few "rednecks" (which is a derogatory, generalizing term. Just say racists jackasses).

Do you know the whistleblower at Abu-Garib could have killed an innocent man during his time there? So how can you salute him wholeheartedly.

We never signed the Geneva Conventions. We only abide by their guidelines. And the people who violate them, they're being punished as we speak. It's great to live in a land where the bad are accountable for their actions. Plus, the people who we detain must be under uniform fighting for a soverign nation to be held under the Geneva guidelines. These terrorists are not a uniformed fighting force fighting under a soverign nation

I support this war wholeheartedly. Did things happen that I would have done differently? You betcha. But I think that our reasons to go to war were right, and you can't convince me otherwise..... unless you have a receipt signed by Cheney to Halliburton saying "Here's your payoff. Pay me in 5 more years", or actual proof we went to war for oil or profit.
War is a real catch 22...In one sense is my morals...do I want to support such a hatred cause...on the other side is my freedom to live in America, one of the greatest/civilizations in the history of mankind...as much as I may be against the things this country does...I will admit that I'm happy to live here. I mean...in another country such as france or Russia which are against the war...I may receive less racism but the resources, like you said earlier, are less prevalent (I'm not happy with showering a couple of times a week ya know?)

I know the "whistleblower" at abu-gharib may have killed innocents...but I think he's a man of his morals and won't just do as he's told if he believes that it's wrong...that's why I respect him...not as a soldier but as a fellow human. I'm not too sure of all the terms in the Geneva Conventions at all...I speak from what I know...what I know is that these men are prisoners of war...this is a war on terrorism therefore...fighting terrorists...and must it be necessarily written down and agreed upon by the world for a man to stop himself from tying another man by a leash and treating him like a dog? It just appalls me that one human can be like this to another.

I understand that what the terrorists did with the beheading is horrific and absolutely barbaric...I couldn't agree more. But I think a life is a life...regardless of how you take it from someone...if you shoot them or behead them...I think taking one's life is horrible. The terrorists made a strong point with their actions...the US just made itself look worse in the eyes of the world with Abu-Gharib. I think both are wrong...the terrorists being worse.

It'll be nearly impossible to show you actual physical proof like that because all this business is done under the table...you and I know that. The profits made by halliburton is there though, that's suspicious to me.

I know the atrocities of war are inevitable...I just wish there was another way for man, the highest form of life on this planet, could settle it's petty problems. And yes, rednecks is a derogatory term, I know...I should've said racists. Even these racists I can understand where they come from...you see things like "Muslim terrorists" "Jihad against america" in the media all the time...it can't be stopped. But I mean...if innocents are dying cause of the actions of the few...why should I defend the masses when the few are against me? I dunno, whatever...I'm against this war and war in general...you faught in war and I can see why you are for...I think we both made clear points...it was nice talking to you cause you didn't once come off as a prick...you're a good guy and I will pay respect to those I feel deserve it. That is all.

Flags of Dawn

08/11/04, 07:32 PM

In response to why I cant stand Kerry:

Cause I think Kerry has the potential to be just as deceptive as Bush has been over the past 4 years. A big part of his campaign is based on the fact that he served in Vietnam. He served 4 months. Yes, its 4 months more than Bush, or myself, but he's trying to come off as some kind of patriot, when hes just another greedy business person. I get a "Im gonna tell you what you want to hear until I get elected, then everything will be thrown out the window" vibe from him.

surfwaxsideshow

08/11/04, 08:14 PM

gatsbyfan

08/11/04, 08:28 PM

"Bush is simply an idiot as a person! I wouldn't have even graduated high school with his public speaking skills! Didn't they teach that back then?"

-Thats interesting, considering Bush is the first president with an MBA and had better grades at Yale than John Kerry did. I like Rise Against but why do they always talk about how they're a positive band (see- http://www.riseagainst.com/about/features.asp?AssetID=766592&artistid=492) atleast thats what all of their bio's say and then Tim will make comments like this. That doesn't sound positive to me nevertheless ignorant considering the facts. Look I don't care if you don't support Bush but atleast be constructive and have some sort of evidence to support your bias.

crayZbuzzard

08/11/04, 08:36 PM

For just once, I want to see someone who is pro bush. I don't have much of an opinion either way, but seriously become so fucking trendy to hate on our current president that everytime I read something like this I question it.

I'm pro-Bush. Kerry couldn't do any better. All the shit I hear coming from the Democrats remind me of a middle school student election. "If I'm elected, everyone gets free ice cream on Fridays!" or "When I become president, I will get rid of all homework!" He's promising all this crap that he can't deliver. And half of the American people will eat up everything Kerry says because much like a group of 12 year olds, they have a juvenile, naive view of the world, and a skewed perception of reality.

I just want to get this off my chest, too. Fuck the United Nations. They are a weak political body who only has any sort of authority because the U.S. helped create it and continue to allow it to exist. And also, fuck world opinion. Like I care what fucking Canada, France, or any other gutless country thinks about how we do things. Obviously, our methods of diplomacy have worked for us for 200 years. We are the greatest nation on earth for a reason.

But everyone go ahead and make your futile attempts at responding. I probably won't read them because I'm tired of liberal hogwash. But even if you do, you won't change my opinion. So just don't waste your time. You think what you want...I'll think what's right.

bossman calling

08/12/04, 05:08 AM

For just once, I want to see someone who is pro bush. I don't have much of an opinion either way, but seriously become so fucking trendy to hate on our current president that everytime I read something like this I question it.
How the fuck is it "trendy" to wake up and realize that Bush has driven this country in a direction that is leading straight to hell? Jesus Christ, the ignorance of some of you people on here astounds me sometimes.

I'm pro-Bush. Kerry couldn't do any better. All the shit I hear coming from the Democrats remind me of a middle school student election. "If I'm elected, everyone gets free ice cream on Fridays!" or "When I become president, I will get rid of all homework!" He's promising all this crap that he can't deliver. And half of the American people will eat up everything Kerry says because much like a group of 12 year olds, they have a juvenile, naive view of the world, and a skewed perception of reality.

I just want to get this off my chest, too. Fuck the United Nations. They are a weak political body who only has any sort of authority because the U.S. helped create it and continue to allow it to exist. And also, fuck world opinion. Like I care what fucking Canada, France, or any other gutless country thinks about how we do things. Obviously, our methods of diplomacy have worked for us for 200 years. We are the greatest nation on earth for a reason.

But everyone go ahead and make your futile attempts at responding. I probably won't read them because I'm tired of liberal hogwash. But even if you do, you won't change my opinion. So just don't waste your time. You think what you want...I'll think what's right.
Wow, your tirade on the UN is the biggest piece of "skewed reality" I've ever seen on this site. Oh yeah, CANADA IS ONE OF THE FEW ALLIES WE HAVE LEFT. I guess in your Toby Keith induced fit of arrogance, you failed to see that.

If our methods of diplomacy have worked for 200 years, then why is North Vietnam still Communist? Why were the Taliban fighting back with weapons WE sold them? Why did WE arm Saddam Hussein in the first place? Why did we train Osama Bin Laden? Why is Cuba still getting fucked, when we have pretty much free trade with a nation with worse human rights records, like CHINA.

You are nothing but an ignorant child. It's people like you that make this country look bad. Didn't you have a confederate flag as your avatar when you first came here? Yeah, that's all we need to know about your political thoughts.

davedesloover18

08/12/04, 05:28 AM

Didn't you have a confederate flag as your avatar when you first came here? Yeah, that's all we need to know about your political thoughts.
that's what I was going to say

surfwaxsideshow

08/12/04, 08:26 AM

bossman calling

08/12/04, 08:33 AM

The national opinion of who people say they are voting for, if I remember correctly, are pretty much 50 50 or at least 60 40. Yet every interview I read, shows I go to, all I hear are bands and stuff talking shit about Bush and praising Kerry. But you know what? How do they know how Kerry would have handled the last three years? I go to shows to hear music, not to hear Chris Connely telling a bunch of 16 year olds to "vote Kerry and get that stupid bastard out of office". I understand this interview was meant to be politicial, so my complaints really have nothing to do with it, but I would for once like to see the other side of the story.
You can't tell how Kerry would have handled the last three years, because he wasn't there. You CAN tell how poorly it was handled by the Bush administration. From that, you can logically decide if you want change or not. I've given my reasons as to why I do, and some people have given a few weak reasons as to why they don't. That's what it comes down to.

toddisawesome

08/12/04, 10:56 AM

to the kerry lovers:

is your beloved candidate for or against the war?? do you even know?? does HE even know??

www.kerryoniraq.com

watch the video

bossman calling

08/12/04, 11:10 AM

That still doesn't change the fact that Bush and his administration went about it all wrong. It says in Kerry's own words on that very site why he voted for the "war"

CBS’ LESLIE STAHL: "You voted for this war. Was that vote, given what you know now, a mistake?" KERRY: "What - what - what I voted for - Lesley, you - you - you see, you’re playing here. What - what I voted for was a - an authority for the president to go to war as a last resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to war." STAHL: "But I’m trying to find out if you today, now that you know about that report, think the war was a mistake? And I ..." KERRY: "I think I answered your question. I think the way he went to war was a mistake." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

I'd rather have someone in office who explains himself, or admits to his mistakes and would try to fix them, than someone who is repeatedly mistaken like Bush, then stands his ground as if nothing was wrong, convicted to his mistakes.

gatsbyfan

08/12/04, 11:25 AM

Please do, because as of right this second, the film is still UNTOUCHED when it comes to being factual.

"untouched" Thats about the funniest shit I've heard in a long time. haha. Besides the fact that he is being sued by an Illinois newspaper right now for fabricating a headline regarding the Florida Recount, here are just fifty-nine other deceits and lies in the movie to go along with it: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
Jason,
Do you watch the news or read anything at all(besides punkvoter, mediamatters or moveon.org)? It makes me wonder when you say such stupid things. Even liberals and democrats are saying there are fallacies in this film, note: Paul Krugman (the most liberal op-ed writer in the New York Times), if you want the transcripts I'll get them for you.

davedesloover18

08/12/04, 11:38 AM

I'd rather have someone in office who explains himself, or admits to his mistakes and would try to fix them, than someone who is repeatedly mistaken like Bush, then stands his ground as if nothing was wrong, convicted to his mistakes.
I think that's what it all boils down to for me with the war issue too. I'm against it, but I'd rather have someone learn from their mistakes and be called a "flip flopper" than someone who's stubborn and doesn't learn just so he can be seen as firm in his beliefs.

toddisawesome

08/12/04, 11:42 AM

handsdown29

08/12/04, 11:57 AM

A war is absolutely necessary sometimes.

Name one. Name one war that was "absolutely necessary." Go ahead.

It's really funny how all Republicans already have their minds made up and won't bother with any facts. And to that very witty response to my letter, John Kerry has the capacity to think globally. George W. Bush simply does not. Failure to recognize this key fact reflects on your personal ignorace. If you buy that we attacked Iraq to "liberate the Iraqis," pat yourself on the back. You have neither the common sense or intellectual capacity to question what you have been told, despite damning evidence against what you believe. You stick to your guns, believe that America has the right to invade any country we want without a good reason, believe that "the poor all have places to sleep," realize you're hated all over the world for your ignorance, naivete and laziness.

America is not the world. It is apalling to turn on the television and watch George W. Bush try to decide the future of the oldest country on the planet. The hubris of that ignorant man will never cease to amaze. Yet what is infinitly more astounding is the support he is able to conjure up from places like the Mid-West, from homophobic simpletons such as himself who have never left their state (much less the country) and fear what they do not understand. George W. Bush and millions of like minds across the country fear Muslim extremists. They fear the Middle East because they have not taken the time to understand what they stand for. They lack the intelligence, the education, and, frankly, the humanity to give their pointless "war" second thought: Bush hijacked 9/11, used it to his own advantage to further his own agenda. Our safety is not an issue. "Iraqi liberation" is not an issue.

Consider this. John Kerry will not fix everything. But as Karl Rove and other right wing PR firms work around the clock to try and discredit Kerry's purple heart, think about Vietnam (if you can; most people seem to have either completely forgotten it or their educations are so poor they never learned about it in the first place).

That's it. Most conservatives are so programmed and their ignorance so innate that not even the most poignant testimony or thoughtful commentary can penetrate their propaganda-filled frontal lobes. There was never weapons of mass destruction. They did not exist.

toddisawesome

08/12/04, 12:13 PM

Name one. Name one war that was "absolutely necessary." Go ahead.

seriously?? not only would i classify ww2 in the "absolutely neccessary" category as far as wars go, lets not forget it was FDR-a democrat- who led is into this war. So then I ask you this...is it YOUR education that is too poor remember this? Also, the integrity of your post went through the window when you explained that "all republicans dont want to bother with facts." You can't possibly make that sort of generalization without sounding ignorant.

richter915

08/12/04, 12:22 PM

seriously?? not only would i classify ww2 in the "absolutely neccessary" category as far as wars go, lets not forget it was FDR-a democrat- who led is into this war. So then I ask you this...is it YOUR education that is too poor remember this? Also, the integrity of your post went through the window when you explained that "all republicans dont want to bother with facts." You can't possibly make that sort of generalization without sounding ignorant.
a democrat in the 30s is different from a democrat today. FDR wanted to be a dictator like bush too (trying to pack the court...three consecutive terms)...also...the nation was in a major depression then so the wartime economy was necessary to help the nation recover...with WWII...everyone in the US (aside from Japanese and Germans) more or less benefited financially.

richter915

08/12/04, 12:31 PM

You can't tell how Kerry would have handled the last three years, because he wasn't there. You CAN tell how poorly it was handled by the Bush administration. From that, you can logically decide if you want change or not. I've given my reasons as to why I do, and some people have given a few weak reasons as to why they don't. That's what it comes down to.
you are the shit.

he's exactly right...just like Tim...most punk bands are anti-Bush...not necessarily pro-kerry...trust me...I don't like Kerry at all...but...I like Bush even less. Yes I know the facts being shown are a bit lop sided..but I don't care. I forgot my point so uh...ya.

toddisawesome

08/12/04, 01:54 PM

wartime economy was necessary to help the nation recover...with WWII...everyone in the US (aside from Japanese and Germans) more or less benefited financially.

so you agree with me is what you're saying, that ww2 was "necessary"

and all this ww2 business is not to detract from the topic at hand, the bush/kerry/iraq issue, however i felt whoever said war is NEVER absolutely necessary was incorrect.

ps. my governor just came out of the closet, and then resigned. this is not doing much for new jerseys reputation.

handsdown29

08/12/04, 02:46 PM

seriously?? not only would i classify ww2 in the "absolutely neccessary" category as far as wars go, lets not forget it was FDR-a democrat- who led is into this war.

So good or bad for FDR? I'm sorry, your ability to fashion a coherent argument isn't as "awesome" as you'd like to believe.

World War Two is actually commonly regarded by historians as a "good" war. It was not neccessary for the United States to enter. But of course that's not what is taught at public schools, because the image of General Eisenhower and Churchill entering France on D-Day is just so damn inspiring and endearing. "Hey, we saved their asses!" No, we didn't.

Germany was running out of resources. Rapidly. Hitler had just opened another front, Russia, during the winter. Big mistake. Napoleon learned the hard way, and so did Hitler. As for Japan, same deal. That's why they entered the war: for resources. Cut off their trading, their resources: they're done.

FDR could have defeated the depression with the National Recovery Administration. It would have worked if it hadn't been found unconstitutional. So (ironically) FDR decided, "Well, let's use this attack on American land to gather up patriotism and use it to rally the country in this time of depression!" So that's what happened.

We rallied because of fear for of the Japanese. We took Japanese citizens from their homes and locked them up in camps in the desert. We dropped atomic bombs on two of their biggest cities. We believed the propaganda when it said the Japanese could drop balloon bombs onto our country. We believed it when they said any Japanese man, woman or child could be a spy.

But World War II is considered a "good" war because we were fighting a tangible enemy. Because propaganda was churned out daily to encourage support for our troops. Because we were in a depression. Right? Well so was Germany. That's what allowed Hitler to take power. The depression caused by World War I.

There would be no depression if it hadn't been for World War I, a war fought by Woodrow Wilson to "make the world safe for democracy." Sound familiar? Hm.

Was World War I "neccessary?" Nope. Was WWII? No. Germany and Japan were running out of resources and losing battles. But we got involved to further our economy when we could have been creative and improved The New Deal and the NRA. But of course, when the United States sees an opportunity to use an incident to drive us into a foreign war, (Pearl Harbor, Gulf Of Tonkin, 9/11) we take the ball and run with it.

It's sad we have to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Sadder still to hear people try to compare Bush's war with WWII when the two are not technically analagous. They do share attributes though, both were wars we entered in an attempt to improve morale and to stimulate the economy. The only problem though, is that WWII was in the 1930's, before Americans grew more cynical and less suseptible to propaganda as a result of Vietnam, Nixon, etc. Oh well.

toddisawesome

08/12/04, 03:31 PM

So good or bad for FDR? I'm sorry, your ability to fashion a coherent argument isn't as "awesome" as you'd like to believe.

World War Two is actually commonly regarded by historians as a "good" war. It was not neccessary for the United States to enter. But of course that's not what is taught at public schools, because the image of General Eisenhower and Churchill entering France on D-Day is just so damn inspiring and endearing. "Hey, we saved their asses!" No, we didn't.

Germany was running out of resources. Rapidly. Hitler had just opened another front, Russia, during the winter. Big mistake. Napoleon learned the hard way, and so did Hitler. As for Japan, same deal. That's why they entered the war: for resources. Cut off their trading, their resources: they're done.

FDR could have defeated the depression with the National Recovery Administration. It would have worked if it hadn't been found unconstitutional. So (ironically) FDR decided, "Well, let's use this attack on American land to gather up patriotism and use it to rally the country in this time of depression!" So that's what happened.

We rallied because of fear for of the Japanese. We took Japanese citizens from their homes and locked them up in camps in the desert. We dropped atomic bombs on two of their biggest cities. We believed the propaganda when it said the Japanese could drop balloon bombs onto our country. We believed it when they said any Japanese man, woman or child could be a spy.

But World War II is considered a "good" war because we were fighting a tangible enemy. Because propaganda was churned out daily to encourage support for our troops. Because we were in a depression. Right? Well so was Germany. That's what allowed Hitler to take power. The depression caused by World War I.

There would be no depression if it hadn't been for World War I, a war fought by Woodrow Wilson to "make the world safe for democracy." Sound familiar? Hm.

Was World War I "neccessary?" Nope. Was WWII? No. Germany and Japan were running out of resources and losing battles. But we got involved to further our economy when we could have been creative and improved The New Deal and the NRA. But of course, when the United States sees an opportunity to use an incident to drive us into a foreign war, (Pearl Harbor, Gulf Of Tonkin, 9/11) we take the ball and run with it.

It's sad we have to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Sadder still to hear people try to compare Bush's war with WWII when the two are not technically analagous. They do share attributes though, both were wars we entered in an attempt to improve morale and to stimulate the economy. The only problem though, is that WWII was in the 1930's, before Americans grew more cynical and less suseptible to propaganda as a result of Vietnam, Nixon, etc. Oh well.

concerning FDR, i wasnt trying to convey a personal opinion on whether or not it was "good or bad" for him. I was simply pointing out the fact that it was a democrat that led us into that war, not the "war mongering conservatives." That's it for that.

as for the rest of your post, you make intelligent well thought out points, but at the same time, it sounds like you feel you could have outsmarted the american government. The "wait and see" approach didnt work for the first 3 years of the war, how much longer do you suggest we should have waited? For the first couple years of the war, Americans just sort of hoped it would go away. Well it didn't, it built up momentum, and Hitler was on his way to taking over Europe. Was it worth the chance to wait and hope that he ran out of resources rather than take immediate action in aiding europe against him?

When you say its sad that "people" compare the war on iraq with ww2, i hope you're not referring to me, because i've never made that comparison, never would.

Again, the only reason i got involved in this at all was because i'm interested in the current election, not because i wanted to discuss ww2.

Jamison Kane

08/12/04, 10:09 PM

Was World War I "neccessary?" Nope. Was WWII? No. Germany and Japan were running out of resources and losing battles. But we got involved to further our economy when we could have been creative and improved The New Deal and the NRA. But of course, when the United States sees an opportunity to use an incident to drive us into a foreign war, (Pearl Harbor, Gulf Of Tonkin, 9/11) we take the ball and run with it.
I am seriously considering banning you for this statement. My grandfather fought and died in that war which you so carelessly deem "unnecessary". If you don't think the lives of 7 millions Jews are a "necessary" risk for our country, then I don't want you anywhere near my forum. On second thought, that it. You're banned, you flaming, ridiculous vagina.

bossman calling

08/13/04, 04:57 AM

that didn't answer my question though, my question to you was do you know, or does kerry even know, if hes for or against the war?

ps. John Kerry repeatedly contradicts himself in that video, therefore taking just one of his quotes and assuming it to be true(as you did) just seems foolish to me.
They way I'm seeing it from the very (cleverly edited) video you showed me, Kerry (as well as most of the democrats AND republicans) was for sending troops into Iraq had all possible options been exahusted. The way I see it, the current Administration acted like that was the case when these votes were going through congress, then abused what authority and trust they had been given and went about this thing all wrong.

So good or bad for FDR? I'm sorry, your ability to fashion a coherent argument isn't as "awesome" as you'd like to believe.

World War Two is actually commonly regarded by historians as a "good" war. It was not neccessary for the United States to enter. But of course that's not what is taught at public schools, because the image of General Eisenhower and Churchill entering France on D-Day is just so damn inspiring and endearing. "Hey, we saved their asses!" No, we didn't.

Germany was running out of resources. Rapidly. Hitler had just opened another front, Russia, during the winter. Big mistake. Napoleon learned the hard way, and so did Hitler. As for Japan, same deal. That's why they entered the war: for resources. Cut off their trading, their resources: they're done.

FDR could have defeated the depression with the National Recovery Administration. It would have worked if it hadn't been found unconstitutional. So (ironically) FDR decided, "Well, let's use this attack on American land to gather up patriotism and use it to rally the country in this time of depression!" So that's what happened.

We rallied because of fear for of the Japanese. We took Japanese citizens from their homes and locked them up in camps in the desert. We dropped atomic bombs on two of their biggest cities. We believed the propaganda when it said the Japanese could drop balloon bombs onto our country. We believed it when they said any Japanese man, woman or child could be a spy.

But World War II is considered a "good" war because we were fighting a tangible enemy. Because propaganda was churned out daily to encourage support for our troops. Because we were in a depression. Right? Well so was Germany. That's what allowed Hitler to take power. The depression caused by World War I.

There would be no depression if it hadn't been for World War I, a war fought by Woodrow Wilson to "make the world safe for democracy." Sound familiar? Hm.

Was World War I "neccessary?" Nope. Was WWII? No. Germany and Japan were running out of resources and losing battles. But we got involved to further our economy when we could have been creative and improved The New Deal and the NRA. But of course, when the United States sees an opportunity to use an incident to drive us into a foreign war, (Pearl Harbor, Gulf Of Tonkin, 9/11) we take the ball and run with it.

It's sad we have to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Sadder still to hear people try to compare Bush's war with WWII when the two are not technically analagous. They do share attributes though, both were wars we entered in an attempt to improve morale and to stimulate the economy. The only problem though, is that WWII was in the 1930's, before Americans grew more cynical and less suseptible to propaganda as a result of Vietnam, Nixon, etc. Oh well.
While many of the events that went on with WWI and especially WWII (civilian bombings, wiping out entire cities, japanese-american camps), were rather fucked, those wars were necesary as, for one, our allies were being invaded by the armies of a hostile nation or nations, and then in WWII, our own soil was being attacked. Had we not stepped in, who knows what the results would have been, had Germany and Japan been free to overrun their respective sides of the globe. Do you have any better answers there?

bossman calling

08/13/04, 04:58 AM

I am seriously considering banning you for this statement. My grandfather fought and died in that war which you so carelessly deem "unnecessary". If you don't think the lives of 7 millions Jews are a "necessary" risk for our country, then I don't want you anywhere near my forum. On second thought, that it. You're banned, you flaming, ridiculous vagina.
I fail to see how that was a cause for banning. It's not like he said FUCK YOUR GRANDFATHER AND FUCK THE JEWS. He was just a little misguided.

richter915

08/13/04, 12:41 PM

I am seriously considering banning you for this statement. My grandfather fought and died in that war which you so carelessly deem "unnecessary". If you don't think the lives of 7 millions Jews are a "necessary" risk for our country, then I don't want you anywhere near my forum. On second thought, that it. You're banned, you flaming, ridiculous vagina.
it's kinda funny isn't it...you ban him cause he says WWII wasn't absolutly necessary...yet you act like a Nazi yourself...well done in making an ass of yourself.

richter915

08/13/04, 12:50 PM

They way I'm seeing it from the very (cleverly edited) video you showed me, Kerry (as well as most of the democrats AND republicans) was for sending troops into Iraq had all possible options been exahusted. The way I see it, the current Administration acted like that was the case when these votes were going through congress, then abused what authority and trust they had been given and went about this thing all wrong.

While many of the events that went on with WWI and especially WWII (civilian bombings, wiping out entire cities, japanese-american camps), were rather fucked, those wars were necesary as, for one, our allies were being invaded by the armies of a hostile nation or nations, and then in WWII, our own soil was being attacked. Had we not stepped in, who knows what the results would have been, had Germany and Japan been free to overrun their respective sides of the globe. Do you have any better answers there?
The Soviets were pushing well into Europe when the US entered (I think) so Germany wasn't really advancing anywhere...it was actually losing ground. I think that the US's method of war (A bombing the Japs) was unnecessary...we clearly had the manpower to invade an island...but instead we did so much destruction that people today are still facing the effects of the radiation...and there is no way you can compare pearl harbor to nagasaki and hiroshima...and as a result of that...Japan no longer has to worry about an army or weapons...my source of this fact isn't strong but from what I know...the US and other nations supply Japan with weapons and all because they feel bad and Japan became a world power because of their trade...but anyway.

It's impossible to compare the necessity of WWII to this war in Iraq...you can't say pearl harbor = 9/11...you can't say anything really to compare the two...WWII was far more necessary due to the crimes of Hitler and the direct attack on the US...you can try and compare Hussein and Hitler...but...you can't.

Jamison Kane

08/13/04, 03:29 PM

it's kinda funny isn't it...you ban him cause he says WWII wasn't absolutly necessary...yet you act like a Nazi yourself...well done in making an ass of yourself.
Don't even get me started on you. You're one of the biggest idiots on this board.

richter915

08/14/04, 09:51 AM

Don't even get me started on you. You're one of the biggest idiots on this board.
oh ya? well get started on me...I'd like to waste your time some more.

Frank Giaramita

08/14/04, 01:29 PM

Don't even get me started on you. You're one of the biggest idiots on this board.

wow. ive never seen u actually put up a fight usually u puss out and say "hahaha, i love you" or something like that. Good job..ur growing nuts, i like it (i mean, i like the fact your growing them...i dont actually like THEM, bc im not into that shit.)

Frank Giaramita

08/14/04, 01:31 PM

I will actually have to agree with jamison for once. Jews and Peral Harbor are enough of a reason to go to war. I tihnk most would agree.

richter915

08/14/04, 09:01 PM

I will actually have to agree with jamison for once. Jews and Peral Harbor are enough of a reason to go to war. I tihnk most would agree.
indeed...but to ban a person cause he doesn't think so? I don't think that's right.

plus, kane only wants to start shit with me so I can say enough crap back to him to give him reason to ban me...though he'll say "no richter, you really are an idiot that's why I wanna start shit"

whatever, I got my new comp today...I am so happy...hurrah.

Frank Giaramita

08/14/04, 10:22 PM

indeed...but to ban a person cause he doesn't think so? I don't think that's right.

plus, kane only wants to start shit with me so I can say enough crap back to him to give him reason to ban me...though he'll say "no richter, you really are an idiot that's why I wanna start shit"

whatever, I got my new comp today...I am so happy...hurrah.

haha, truee. yeah I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, people shouldnt be punished over that. I agree with you 100% in that sense.

QuinnMikeyHot12

08/09/05, 08:05 PM

why was the whole interview about the elections and stuff

Quinn Allman An The USed Rock

Mikey Way and MCR Rock

Never give up if u still wanna try
Never dry ur tears if u still wanna cry
Never settle for the answer if u still wanna no
Never say u dont love him if u cant let him go