Not something huge, but maybe another lie from the President?

[_astheruinfalls]

http://pages.infinit.net/noc/pentagon.swf

I'm sure all of you have heard about this. I finally got a video on it, though.

[venus/bacchus]

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories (except JFK related), but they supply some pretty good information. I need to get around to reading the 9/11 Report, I wonder what they'd mention about the crash. I can't see why Bush would orchestrate an attack on his own people though. I have genuine respect for him, so it's pretty hard to believe.

[BrandNew20]

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories (except JFK related), but they supply some pretty good information. I need to get around to reading the 9/11 Report, I wonder what they'd mention about the crash. I can't see why Bush would orchestrate an attack on his own people though. I have genuine respect for him, so it's pretty hard to believe.

I don't like Bush, But the guys not heartless...

[ohlookitspaul]

wow that's sort of creepy. i try and stay away from conspiracy theories but that seems so...intense. i agree with venus/bacchus (for once, ha), i'd like to read the 9/11 report first.

[_astheruinfalls]

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories (except JFK related), but they supply some pretty good information. I need to get around to reading the 9/11 Report, I wonder what they'd mention about the crash. I can't see why Bush would orchestrate an attack on his own people though. I have genuine respect for him, so it's pretty hard to believe.
Yeah. I don't really buy the thing about Bush orchestrating ( sp ) the attacks or anything. I mean...any American ( EVEN A LIBERAL!!! ) wouldn't do that. That would be heartless. I give Bush enough credit to not do that. :lol2:

But either way; it's an intresting case. I want to read the 9/11 Report. Hopefull it's at the used book store already.

[ohlookitspaul]

i just downloaded it from the commission's website or whatever. jesus christ it's 585 pages...this will take a while to read.

[venus/bacchus]

I don't like Bush, But the guys not soleless...
yeah, he definitely owns shoes...I have no idea what you're trying to say
Yeah. I don't really buy the thing about Bush orchestrating ( sp ) the attacks or anything. I mean...any American ( EVEN A LIBERAL!!! ) wouldn't do that. That would be heartless. I give Bush enough credit to not do that.

But either way; it's an intresting case. I want to read the 9/11 Report. Hopefull it's at the used book store already.
The thing I find the most intriguing about this whole case is where is the plane? But let's just say for example that it was a commuter jet that hit the pentagon instead of the 757...where is Flight 77? Also, they claim that the hotel workers watched a video in horror, but yet don't give any word on what those people saw. You'd think that if one of them knew it was a missle or small jet, they'd speak up on some sort of condition on anonymity (assuming the government was silencing them). Who knows...I want to read more about this now, I'm intrigued.

[_astheruinfalls]

yeah, he definitely owns shoes...I have no idea what you're trying to say

The thing I find the most intriguing about this whole case is where is the plane? But let's just say for example that it was a commuter jet that hit the pentagon instead of the 757...where is Flight 77? Also, they claim that the hotel workers watched a video in horror, but yet don't give any word on what those people saw. You'd think that if one of them knew it was a missle or small jet, they'd speak up on some sort of condition on anonymity (assuming the government was silencing them). Who knows...I want to read more about this now, I'm intrigued.
Yes. It is quite crazy. I kind of believe the bomb theory. Or maybe even a missle? I think that may just be the work of the government using their almighty hand on our freedom of speach.

[yeat182]

it all makes perfect sense now. bush was the second gunman on grassy knoll! also, he managed to travel back in time to 1947 and plant some phoney aliens in the desert in New Mexico. Also, bush, along with the rand corporation, are in a feindish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. either that or they are reverse vampires and have to be indoors before nightfall.

[_astheruinfalls]

it all makes perfect sense now. bush was the second gunman on grassy knoll! also, he managed to travel back in time to 1947 and plant some phoney aliens in the desert in New Mexico. Also, bush, along with the rand corporation, are in a feindish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. either that or they are reverse vampires and have to be indoors before nightfall.
You confused as much as ever before. But since I know you usually see things differently than me...

NO!

:lol2:

[BrandNew20]

yeah, he definitely owns shoes...I have no idea what you're trying to say.

haha...sorry I can't spell, consider it fixed.

[venus/bacchus]

Yes. It is quite crazy. I kind of believe the bomb theory. Or maybe even a missle? I think that may just be the work of the government using their almighty hand on our freedom of speach.
Yeah, those are both possibilities, but there are other things that just don't add up (where is Flight 77...why haven't any of these so-called witnesses spoken up?). If two planes crashed into the WTC (which we know happened) and were piloted by terrorists (I know there's another conspiracy theory floating around about this one), I don't see why the government would need a reason to put a plan into the Pentagon as an attempt to later crack down on our free speech. The WTC attack would have been enough.
it all makes perfect sense now. bush was the second gunman on grassy knoll! also, he managed to travel back in time to 1947 and plant some phoney aliens in the desert in New Mexico. Also, bush, along with the rand corporation, are in a feindish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. either that or they are reverse vampires and have to be indoors before nightfall.
The video never even suggests that Bush was behind the attacks. It just gives information that's contradictory of what we've been told. If nothing else, it should make you think. I for one refuse to believe that Bush was behind it, but I'm not positive that a 757 hit the Pentagon.
haha...sorry I can't spell, consider it fixed.I knew what you were trying to say, but I thought it was an anti-Bush comment, which confused me. I know the guy isn't heartless, that's why I said it's very difficult to believe he had anything to do with it.
The only problem I have with this is, it doesn't give any explanation or theory on what happend to the flight that supposively hit the pentagon.That's the beauty of conspiracy theories. Give only as much information as needed for the viewer to put 2 and 2 together, but never say what you're intending to say. That way, if the viewer/reader figures it out on their own based on the clues, they'll be more likely to believe it as opposed to someone just spoon-feeding it to them. And, yeah, I definitely think there are some flaws in their argument, but it's interesting to think about.

[yeat182]

i'll admit i didn't watch the video, but i've heard this conspiracy before, it was posted here a while ago. as for no one being sure that a plane hit the pentagon, there was video of it, i saw it, it was on the news. it was from a security camera on one of the gates, and you could see the plane crash into the building. it was poor quality, but still, it is much more believable than any of these other theories.

[venus/bacchus]

i'll admit i didn't watch the video, but i've heard this conspiracy before, it was posted here a while ago. as for no one being sure that a plane hit the pentagon, there was video of it, i saw it, it was on the news. it was from a security camera on one of the gates, and you could see the plane crash into the building. it was poor quality, but still, it is much more believable than any of these other theories.
The video's very bad quality, it's really difficult to tell it's a Boeing.

in case people wanted the other side:
Hunt the Boeing! - Smoke and Mirrors no Subsititue for Truth (http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm)
Paul Boutin "Hunt the Boeing" answers (http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14)
Urban Legends Reference Page: Hunt the Boeing! (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)

just remember everybody, these are websites, trust with caution (for both sides)

[yeat182]

why would the US government want to purposely destroy their department of defense and possilby kill hundreds of thousands of the most important people in the military? it makes zero sense whatsoever.

[ohlookitspaul]

at least watch the video, you said you didn't watch it. it's intriguing at least. it's only a few minutes.

[venus/bacchus]

why would the US government want to purposely destroy their department of defense and possilby kill hundreds of thousands of the most important people in the military? it makes zero sense whatsoever.
I never said that they would, that's the main reason I find the story very improbable. But it's always good to look at as much information as possible.

[open mind]

why would the US government want to purposely destroy their department of defense and possilby kill hundreds of thousands of the most important people in the military? it makes zero sense whatsoever.
war is money for one, and hundreds of thousands?
i'm skeptical of this though.

[_astheruinfalls]

i'll admit i didn't watch the video, but i've heard this conspiracy before, it was posted here a while ago. as for no one being sure that a plane hit the pentagon, there was video of it, i saw it, it was on the news. it was from a security camera on one of the gates, and you could see the plane crash into the building. it was poor quality, but still, it is much more believable than any of these other theories.
The video has this footage in it. The plane dissapears. And if a boeing did hit it, where is the boeing?

I mean seriously yeat, just watch the video.

[_astheruinfalls]

And let's say the plane DID dissingrate...how did they have a body count? I don't think bones are stronger than an airplane.

[venus/bacchus]

The video has this footage in it. The plane dissapears. And if a boeing did hit it, where is the boeing?

I mean seriously yeat, just watch the video.
not near the building, but it appears to be part of the plane

[_astheruinfalls]

not near the building, but it appears to be part of the plane
So your ( well, not you..I guess... ) that every part of the plane is gone ( except some small parts ) but a piece of the covering is left? How illogical does that sound?

And planes destroy the ground. Unless this was a super cool plane.

[venus/bacchus]

So your ( well, not you..I guess... ) that every part of the plane is gone ( except some small parts ) but a piece of the covering is left? How illogical does that sound?

And planes destroy the ground. Unless this was a super cool plane.
Did you read any of the links I posted? They touched on that and explain it a lot better than I ever could.

[_astheruinfalls]

Yes I did, and each one is a carbon copy of the other one.

But they never answer the question: "What happened to the plane?"

So, where is the plane? And why isn't the government releasing the tapes? Everyone saw the WTC, but why not the Pentagon? Does that not cause you ANY suspicion?

[venus/bacchus]

Yes I did, and each one is a carbon copy of the other one.

But they never answer the question: "What happened to the plane?"

So, where is the plane? And why isn't the government releasing the tapes? Everyone saw the WTC, but why not the Pentagon? Does that not cause you ANY suspicion?
I don't know, I don't know, and I don't know.

I've been suspicious since the beginning, but it doesn't make for a very good thread if we all agree now does it?

[_astheruinfalls]

You're right.

SO STOP AGREEING WITH ME!

:p

[venus/bacchus]

You're right.

SO STOP AGREEING WITH ME!

:p
haha, fair enough, I can handle that

[yeat182]

war is money for one, and hundreds of thousands?
i'm skeptical of this though.


sorry that should be an "or" not an "of".

and the planes already struck the twin towers, what point would it serve to then attack the pentagon on top of it? not to mention the sheer improbability of the government planning an attack on the pentagon to occur during a terrorist attack on the twin towers. sorry, i don't buy it.

[yeat182]

ok, i watched the video and these are my thoughts:

1. these people that claimed it "sounded like a missle" - how exactly do they know what a missle sounds like?

2. people said they saw a plane (different types apparently, but still a plane, not a missle) - yet the video claims it couldn't have been a plane because there were no reports of "jet wash". so all those people that saw a plane, were wrong?

3. even if it was a missle, it would have created a jet wash, missles travel much faster than the 530 mph it was claimed the plane was flying at the time. also, missles (certain types) create sonic booms because they travel so fast...

4. was there or was there not a 4th plane reported missing that day? a real, honest to god plane, with real people on it that never came back. if this is all a hoax, what happened to the plane and its passengers?

5. even if it wasn't a plane, and was a missle, there is A. no reason, or B. no evidence that the government was involved in the attack. it may have been involved in the cover-up, for whatever reason, not all sinister, but i doubt highly the military would want to blow up its own headquarters.

[open mind]

all good points except for the no reason thing.

[Frank Giaramita]

i dont understand though. How could a plane hit one of the twin towers, burn for an hour and a half, fall 100's of feet and enourmous pieces still be found? Yet they can't find any relevant pieces of a plane that supposedly smashed into the ground and slid into the pentagon. It just doesnt make sense to me. There is no ground damage, no skid marks, relatively no wreckage where the plane first hit the ground. Little tiny pieces here and there don't mean a damn thing when the other 99% of the plane is totally missing. I tihnk almost anyone could see that something doesnt add up here.

[yeat182]

all good points except for the no reason thing.


what would be the reason then?

[xnotedgex]

a few more things about the situation that i find curious:

1.following the attack, the site was turned over to the arlington county fire dept...then to the fbi...now why would an attack on the center of our military operations be turned over to civilians? that makes absolutely no sense at all

2.giving the backgrond of those who would be at the site immediately following the attack, surely someone would know that you don't put out oil fires with water!!!!

3.9 hours after the attack, rumsfeld declared that there couldn't possibly be any survivors, despite the fact that earthquake survivors have been known to survive buried for up to 12 days....numerous attempts by rescue workers to look for survivors were halted following the attack

4.the most obvious thing here as has been pointed out...the plane mysteriously disappeared, along with all videos which could have possibly shown the plane hitting the building

I'll admit the conspiracy websites out there take it a bit too far but you'd have to be an idiot not to recognize that things don't add up

[yeat182]

good points, but as for your first one, someone had to put out the fire, and i don't think there is any governemental fire dept. out side of a military base, and since time was of the essance it makes sense to me.

[xnotedgex]

i agree...but the fire is completely confusing to me.....airplane fires are put out with foam, not water....this isn't really uncommon knowledge...certainly someone at the pentagon or someone with the fire dept would know this...also, if you've seen pictures of the site after the crash, there is a wall of smoke rising from the roof well north of the crash site, at a place where the plane did not even penetrate to the 3rd floor...im not willing to go so far to say that it was set to trap people in the sector but i just think it's really odd

nothing conclusive can be proven by anything presented...i just think its worrisome that our government will not provide us with true information, since clearly the official story is not true...and that people can continue to support this government while being held in the dark about one of the most significant events in our history

[xnotedgex]

They did it with JFK.

indeed they did...the parallels between the two situations are striking

[yeat182]

why isn't this story on any major news network or paper? don't you think if what was presented in the video had any credibility to it, someone would have picked up on it? i mean, Fox would probably do another "fake moonlanding" show about it....

the simplest explanation is normally the correct one, these complex theories rely to much on a large number of people keeping their mouths shut, and as we have seen in every scandal just in the past 5 or 10 years, its almost impossible for such things not to get out into the public.

[yeat182]

also, no one has yet to explain the fact that a plane was missing, and that the passangers on it never came back...if it was a missle, then what the hell happened to a plane full of people?

[venus/bacchus]

also, no one has yet to explain the fact that a plane was missing, and that the passangers on it never came back...if it was a missle, then what the hell happened to a plane full of people?
bermuda triangle
i agree...but the fire is completely confusing to me.....airplane fires are put out with foam, not water....this isn't really uncommon knowledge...certainly someone at the pentagon or someone with the fire dept would know this...also, if you've seen pictures of the site after the crash, there is a wall of smoke rising from the roof well north of the crash site, at a place where the plane did not even penetrate to the 3rd floor...im not willing to go so far to say that it was set to trap people in the sector but i just think it's really odd

nothing conclusive can be proven by anything presented...i just think its worrisome that our government will not provide us with true information, since clearly the official story is not true...and that people can continue to support this government while being held in the dark about one of the most significant events in our history
I agree with the majority of what you've said, but you have to remember, when's the last time our government supplied us with vital information? The fact that this is one of the most significant events in our history could be reason they are withholding it, because it could be a "breach of security".

There are a lot of things that don't add up, maybe in 50 years we'll know what happened.

[cal1082]

The obvious flaw in the conspiracy theory (if it hasnt already been point out) is that if a missile was to hit the Pentagon you still have a missing plane with over 100 people in the plane.

No one can explain what happened to this plane if it was a missile. Where are the over 100 people who were on this plane, because I'm sure their family members would like to know.

[cal1082]

why isn't this story on any major news network or paper? don't you think if what was presented in the video had any credibility to it, someone would have picked up on it? i mean, Fox would probably do another "fake moonlanding" show about it....

the simplest explanation is normally the correct one, these complex theories rely to much on a large number of people keeping their mouths shut, and as we have seen in every scandal just in the past 5 or 10 years, its almost impossible for such things not to get out into the public.

Also why didnt the 9/11 commission even mention this? Democrats and other's in office who want Bush out would eat this story up if it had any credibility what so ever. :lipsrseal

[open mind]

what would be the reason then?
economic benefits of war.

[Bikeage]

i think the movie also might have proposed the fact that a missle hit the pentagon (not necessarily ours), and since we have this naive belief that we are invinceable, wanted to cover that up... i dunno though

[_astheruinfalls]

Also why didnt the 9/11 commission even mention this? Democrats and other's in office who want Bush out would eat this story up if it had any credibility what so ever. :lipsrseal
So then answer the questions if the theory has no credibility.

Oh right, you can't.

[cal1082]

So then answer the questions if the theory has no credibility.

Oh right, you can't.

Well first I can't see the video for one thing, my computer has been messed up (which is why i havent been on in the last 3 weeks). Second, you're probably right, and I can't answer most of the questions simply because I'm not there now, I wasnt there then, and I'm not on the inside of what went on that day much like you.

The fact still remains though that if this was a credible story you would have democrats everywhere (meaning in the senate, house, and during the 9/11 hearings) bringing this story and evidence to the forefront. Do you agree?

Get off the conspiracy wagon!

[_astheruinfalls]

Well first I can't see the video for one thing, my computer has been messed up (which is why i havent been on in the last 3 weeks). Second, you're probably right, and I can't answer most of the questions simply because I'm not there now, I wasnt there then, and I'm not on the inside of what went on that day much like you.

The fact still remains though that if this was a credible story you would have democrats everywhere (meaning in the senate, house, and during the 9/11 hearings) bringing this story and evidence to the forefront. Do you agree?

Get off the conspiracy wagon!
Or maybe because it's a toucy subject? Who knows.

All in all, there's no credible evidence to prove there was an airplane or that an airplane did hit the Pentagon. I think that is enough lack of evidence to give the theory enough credibility to doubt the government and what it's feeding us.

[cal1082]

Or maybe because it's a toucy subject? Who knows.

All in all, there's no credible evidence to prove there was an airplane or that an airplane did hit the Pentagon. I think that is enough lack of evidence to give the theory enough credibility to doubt the government and what it's feeding us.

No credible evidence to prove that a plane didnt hit the Pentagon!!!!

1.) There is a missing plane

2.) the FAA sent an alert that they had a plane heading towards the Pentagon 12 minutes before the plane struck (perhaps the FAA was in on it :lipsrseal )

3.) An Army Captain Lincoln Liebner saw the plane hit. (Perhaps in Captain was in on it too :lipsrseal )

4.) Also the 9/11 commission looked at more evidence than almost anyone has on the subject (you've seen how long the 9/11 report is), and that being the case they determined a plane hit. (Perhaps the 9/11 commission is in on it too :lipsrseal )

There's no use in arguing with someone who thinks credibility comes from obscure websites, and one book written by Frenchman.

[cal1082]

One other point, to have any credibiltiy what so ever you must to be able to explain the plane that's missing, and the FAA involvment with your conspiracy for starters.

[_astheruinfalls]

No credible evidence to prove that a plane didnt hit the Pentagon!!!!

1.) There is a missing plane

2.) the FAA sent an alert that they had a plane heading towards the Pentagon 12 minutes before the plane struck (perhaps the FAA was in on it :lipsrseal )

3.) An Army Captain Lincoln Liebner saw the plane hit. (Perhaps in Captain was in on it too :lipsrseal )

4.) Also the 9/11 commission looked at more evidence than almost anyone has on the subject (you've seen how long the 9/11 report is), and that being the case they determined a plane hit. (Perhaps the 9/11 commission is in on it too :lipsrseal )

There's no use in arguing with someone who thinks credibility comes from obscure websites, and one book written by Frenchman.
1) A lot of planes go missing and are never found. I don't remember any planes, but we learned this in like third fucking grade. And like what was said earlier, the Bermuda Triangle?

2) 12 minutes. That's a long fucking time. Anything could have happened. ( Of course the FAA is in on it. WHO THE FUCK DOESN'T THINK THAT!? )

3) Many people say they saw a plane hit. Others claim they didn't. ( WELL DUH! THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS HIS PIECE OF SHIT BRAIN! )

4) People make mistakes. I'm too lazy to read the who report. So give me where in the book it says that, and tell me what they conclude happened to the remains. ( WELL DUH! BUSH PAYS THEM A LOT TO KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT! )

[_astheruinfalls]

One other point, to have any credibiltiy what so ever you must to be able to explain the plane that's missing, and the FAA involvment with your conspiracy for starters.
Why should I if you can't explain where it is either?

The FAA is in on everything. They killed Kennedy.

[yeat182]

economic benefits of war.

so that would somehow outweigh the fact that you are attempting to destroy your military headquarters. sorry, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[yeat182]

1) A lot of planes go missing and are never found. I don't remember any planes, but we learned this in like third fucking grade. And like what was said earlier, the Bermuda Triangle?

you've got to be kidding. an attack on the pentagon just happens to coincide with a plane going missing in the bermuda triangle at the exact same time?! not to mention how far off course the plane would have had to have been to be in the bermuda triangle, and the fact that 3 other planes were hijacked that day, and the terrorists on board all the planes were known and accounted for.

[cal1082]

1) A lot of planes go missing and are never found. I don't remember any planes, but we learned this in like third fucking grade. And like what was said earlier, the Bermuda Triangle?

What!?! A lot of planes go missing......when's the last time a huge boeing carrying over 100 people just went missing. I'm taking that the Bermuda Triangle remark was a joke, or at least I hope it was.

2) 12 minutes. That's a long fucking time. Anything could have happened. ( Of course the FAA is in on it. WHO THE FUCK DOESN'T THINK THAT!? )

If you think the FAA is in on it, show some evidence. You would have to have some evidence of this to even give this conspiracy credibility.

3) Many people say they saw a plane hit. Others claim they didn't. ( WELL DUH! THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS HIS PIECE OF SHIT BRAIN! )

Did any eyewitnesses see a missile hit?

4) People make mistakes. I'm too lazy to read the who report. So give me where in the book it says that, and tell me what they conclude happened to the remains. ( WELL DUH! BUSH PAYS THEM A LOT TO KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT! )

Yes, Bush is paying off democrats who want him out of office (Bob Kerrey). Give me a break.

[Bikeage]

umm, did you guys totally bypass what i just said? you think it'd benefit the democrats if people found out about a missle hitting the pentagon?

[_astheruinfalls]

you've got to be kidding. an attack on the pentagon just happens to coincide with a plane going missing in the bermuda triangle at the exact same time?! not to mention how far off course the plane would have had to have been to be in the bermuda triangle, and the fact that 3 other planes were hijacked that day, and the terrorists on board all the planes were known and accounted for.
I'm not saying in went into the Bermuda Triangle! GEEZ! I was giving an example to planes dissapearing.

[_astheruinfalls]

What!?! A lot of planes go missing......when's the last time a huge boeing carrying over 100 people just went missing. I'm taking that the Bermuda Triangle remark was a joke, or at least I hope it was.



If you think the FAA is in on it, show some evidence. You would have to have some evidence of this to even give this conspiracy credibility.



Did any eyewitnesses see a missile hit?



Yes, Bush is paying off democrats who want him out of office (Bob Kerrey). Give me a break.
Everything in...um...( ) whatever those are was a joke. So you might want to re-reply?

[_astheruinfalls]

I seriously am laughing my ass off that you guys actually took half of what I responded to cal with seriously. I mean come on guys. Am I that fucking stupid?

[xnotedgex]

The obvious flaw in the conspiracy theory (if it hasnt already been point out) is that if a missile was to hit the Pentagon you still have a missing plane with over 100 people in the plane.

No one can explain what happened to this plane if it was a missile. Where are the over 100 people who were on this plane, because I'm sure their family members would like to know.

Agreed....not everyone believes it was a missile though...I personally think it was a single engine plane, for the fact that where the second engine on a 757 would have gone, the column is still standing.

[xnotedgex]

and the terrorists on board all the planes were known and accounted for.

this isn't entirely accurate....there was not a single name on the original passenger list for flight 77 which was arabic in origin. that seems a little fishy to me

i'll say it again....i'm not gonna accuse anyone of anything but how can someone seriously believe what we've been told? cal...please tell me, do you believe flight 77 hit the pentagon and if so, what are your reasons?

[yeat182]

i'll tell you why i believe it:

1. a plane full of people is missing with no other reasonable explanation of what happened to it. Until someone explains where this plane went, there is no reason to believe anything else crashed into the pentagon that day.

2. there were 3 other planes hijacked that day, 2 of which crashed into buildings, while the 3rd was en route to washington dc when it crashed.

3. there is absolutley no legitimate reason why the governement would launch a missle attempting to destroy its own military headquarters. if they wanted an excuse to start a war they wouldn't blow up a vital component of their military.

[cal1082]

this isn't entirely accurate....there was not a single name on the original passenger list for flight 77 which was arabic in origin. that seems a little fishy to me

i'll say it again....i'm not gonna accuse anyone of anything but how can someone seriously believe what we've been told? cal...please tell me, do you believe flight 77 hit the pentagon and if so, what are your reasons?

Yes, first for the obvious reason the plane and it's passangers are no longer here. Second the 9/11 panel who studied the whole situation through and through determined it was that airline, and gave no acknowledment to the missile theory.

[cal1082]

I seriously am laughing my ass off that you guys actually took half of what I responded to cal with seriously. I mean come on guys. Am I that fucking stupid?

again when was the last time a jumbo jet just dissapeared with over 100 people on it?

[richter915]

this isn't entirely accurate....there was not a single name on the original passenger list for flight 77 which was arabic in origin. that seems a little fishy to me

i'll say it again....i'm not gonna accuse anyone of anything but how can someone seriously believe what we've been told? cal...please tell me, do you believe flight 77 hit the pentagon and if so, what are your reasons?
all terrorists have arabic names? They could've used fake names I'm sure.

[xnotedgex]

i'll tell you why i believe it:

1. a plane full of people is missing with no other reasonable explanation of what happened to it. Until someone explains where this plane went, there is no reason to believe anything else crashed into the pentagon that day.

2. there were 3 other planes hijacked that day, 2 of which crashed into buildings, while the 3rd was en route to washington dc when it crashed.

3. there is absolutley no legitimate reason why the governement would launch a missle attempting to destroy its own military headquarters. if they wanted an excuse to start a war they wouldn't blow up a vital component of their military.

1.how is saying a 757 crashed into the pentagon and then immediately disappeared a reasonable explanation?
2.agreed, unexplainable
3.im not going to accuse the government of having any responsibility for anything other than the cover up...i think it needs to be pointed out that the area hit by the plane was under construction and didn't have too many people in it...to me it doesn't look like an attempt to destroy the military headquarters

[xnotedgex]

all terrorists have arabic names? They could've used fake names I'm sure.

curious is it then that we know all of their real names and they are accounted for considering we have no way to identify who it really was

[xnotedgex]

Yes, first for the obvious reason the plane and it's passangers are no longer here. Second the 9/11 panel who studied the whole situation through and through determined it was that airline, and gave no acknowledment to the missile theory.

I doubt they did mention it but please don't try to make it appear as if you've read the whole 9/11 report...thank you

So because the plane disappeared, and we were told it flew into the Pentagon, it must have, despite all of the evidence to the contrary?

[cal1082]

I doubt they did mention it but please don't try to make it appear as if you've read the whole 9/11 report...thank you

So because the plane disappeared, and we were told it flew into the Pentagon, it must have, despite all of the evidence to the contrary?

I didnt read the whole 9/11 report, never pretended that I did. On the other hand it doesnt take a brilliant man to type in the words "9/11 report" into a search engine and find it on the internet. Then I just looked at the table of contents, and read the part about flight 77.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/

Like I said it doesnt take a brilliant man, it just takes a competent one :lipsrseal

(To help you along just look at part 1.1 where they talk about the 4 flights)

[yeat182]

1.how is saying a 757 crashed into the pentagon and then immediately disappeared a reasonable explanation?
i can believe that it was destroyed easier than i can believed it vanished into thin air.



3.im not going to accuse the government of having any responsibility for anything other than the cover up...i think it needs to be pointed out that the area hit by the plane was under construction and didn't have too many people in it...to me it doesn't look like an attempt to destroy the military headquarters

i agree, if the government is involved, it is with the cover up, but i seriously doubt they have anything to do with the attack itself. despite the fact that the area hit by the plane was underconstruction, there were still important personell in there, the secretary of defense was in the building as well, and hitting it intentionally doesn't guaruntee that you won't destroy more of the building or more of the people than you assumed. if they wanted to blow something up to have an excuse to start a war, they would have blown something up that was less valuable, and probably not in america at all, probably one of our assests over seas. to assume the government had something to do with the attack (not saying that you are saying that, but in general), means that they had such a fortutious series of events to coincide with the attacks on the twin towers minutes prior, that the cover up works perfectly. that in and of itself gives reason to doubt the entire conspiracy.

so assumeing it wasn't a plane, and it wasn't a sinister attempt by the government to start a war, why is there a possible cover-up? i would say that if it wasn't a plane that hit the pentagon, it was something so terrible that the governemnt kept it a secret to prevent widespread panic (ie. the terrorists had access to cruise missles or something crazy like that) and that is why there has been the cover-up. still doesn't explain what happened to the plane or the people on it, but i find it more believeable than trying to accuse the government of intentionally attacking their own headquarters.

[_astheruinfalls]

If you can't explain it, how do you expect me to explain it? I can't.

Bermuda Triangle stories. Have you never heard those. Or...Amelia Earhart ( sp )?

[yeat182]

If you can't explain it, how do you expect me to explain it? I can't.

Bermuda Triangle stories. Have you never heard those. Or...Amelia Earhart ( sp )?

don't you think its a rather strange coincidence that one of these rare disapearances just happen to conincide with 3 other hijackings?

[_astheruinfalls]

don't you think its a rather strange coincidence that one of these rare disapearances just happen to conincide with 3 other hijackings?
Deja vu is weird. It's a coincidence. Many things in daily life are coincidences.

[Lueda Alia]

check this out: http://www.911uncovered.com/

[venus/bacchus]

check this out: http://www.911uncovered.com/
"...they fired missiles into the Twin Towers, or how they rigged the Twin Towers with explosives...''

did we not see the plane hit the building live? these people are stretching it now

[richter915]

curious is it then that we know all of their real names and they are accounted for considering we have no way to identify who it really was
dude I don't even know what this whole current discussion is about but I just want to know why the names MUST be arabic in order for them to be terrorists. I'm sorry I just take offense sometimes cause I have an arabic name ya know? oh well.

[boysdontcry]

just to throw this in...

of the bodies found that were in the plane that crashed into the pentagon, not one was of arab descent. put that shit in your pipe and smoke it.

[yeat182]

Deja vu is weird. It's a coincidence. Many things in daily life are coincidences.

deja vu is a physical ailment.

[yeat182]

dude I don't even know what this whole current discussion is about but I just want to know why the names MUST be arabic in order for them to be terrorists. I'm sorry I just take offense sometimes cause I have an arabic name ya know? oh well.


because all the terrorists on 9/11 were arabic.

[richter915]

because all the terrorists on 9/11 were arabic.
In this situation yes...but of all the terrorists in the world...not even close.

my name is Rashek...I'm pretty sure it's arabic in descent

[ShoeSh1ne]

ok, i watched the video and these are my thoughts:

1. these people that claimed it "sounded like a missle" - how exactly do they know what a missle sounds like?

3. even if it was a missle, it would have created a jet wash, missles travel much faster than the 530 mph it was claimed the plane was flying at the time. also, missles (certain types) create sonic booms because they travel so fast...

5. even if it wasn't a plane, and was a missle, there is A. no reason, or B. no evidence that the government was involved in the attack. it may have been involved in the cover-up, for whatever reason, not all sinister, but i doubt highly the military would want to blow up its own headquarters.


1. They work at the Pentagon, most of the people know a lot of military and weapons and such.

3. You are thinking that the missile is huge. It could have been something similar to an RPG.

4. I see a lot of people saying the gov't was involved, you guys are reading too much into it. It could have been a small commuter plane or someone shot something into the Pentagon. I don't think the gov't did this, but they are covering up SOMETHING.

[ShoeSh1ne]

"...they fired missiles into the Twin Towers, or how they rigged the Twin Towers with explosives...''

did we not see the plane hit the building live? these people are stretching it now

They are saying there were missiles on the planes. Some of the videos actually show something hitting the tower before the plane...

[richter915]

so were missles fired off of the plane or where the missles on the plane so that upon impact...the missles detonated?

I just find it hilarious how check in must've been for those terrorists..."what's that you have there strapped to your back sir?" "uhm uh...a uh...snowboard...ya...for...uhm...s nowboarding"

[yeat182]

In this situation yes...but of all the terrorists in the world...not even close.

my name is Rashek...I'm pretty sure it's arabic in descent

no one said that all terrorists are arabic.

[yeat182]

1. They work at the Pentagon, most of the people know a lot of military and weapons and such.

they don't say who these people are(other than their name), where they were, or where they work.

3. You are thinking that the missile is huge. It could have been something similar to an RPG.

i'm no explosive expert, but an RPG wouldn't do that. an RPG is a grenade, not a missle. this thing blew through several concrete walls and cause extensive damage.

[yeat182]

They are saying there were missiles on the planes. Some of the videos actually show something hitting the tower before the plane...


there were missles on a commuter plane? are you insane?

[richter915]

no one said that all terrorists are arabic.
I know...I get the feeling that some people feel that all arabs are terrorists...not educated people though...most people are here are very educated.

[cal1082]

just to throw this in...

of the bodies found that were in the plane that crashed into the pentagon, not one was of arab descent. put that shit in your pipe and smoke it.

where'd you hear that from?

[richter915]

I dunno...I still have some doubts considering there was no boeing jet there...it could not have just disintegrated due to it's physics.

You know, if we had a ballsy hacker we could solve the problem of "where did the plane go if it didn't hit the building?"...I'm sure the FAA has some sorta tracking system on all planes that cannot be shut off or somehow lost...and they must have good record of this (which was probably all confiscated by the federal gov't...which is why we'd need a ballsy hacker)

[open mind]

so that would somehow outweigh the fact that you are attempting to destroy your military headquarters. sorry, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
destroy?more like damage.....yeah killing people for money doesn't make any sense..........

[richter915]

Ballsy Hacker!

[theESCO]

http://www.the7thfire.com/images/pentagonxox30.jpg

[yeat182]

destroy?more like damage.....yeah killing people for money doesn't make any sense..........

first of all, the section that was hit was destroyed. secondly, what sense does it make to destroy the heart of your military? it makes zero which is why this whole conspiracy is garbage. not to mention the fact that the missle would have been launched by someone in the military and i'm sure they would object to firing a missle into the pentagon.

also, where exactly is the money coming from? attacking the pentagon made the someone rich, how?

[_astheruinfalls]

first of all, the section that was hit was destroyed. secondly, what sense does it make to destroy the heart of your military? it makes zero which is why this whole conspiracy is garbage. not to mention the fact that the missle would have been launched by someone in the military and i'm sure they would object to firing a missle into the pentagon.

also, where exactly is the money coming from? attacking the pentagon made the someone rich, how?
They aren't saying it was the government. They are merely stating evidence against the idea it was a plane.

[PunkDrums182]

man, i am so confused. i dont know what to think

[BrandNew20]

man, i am so confused. i dont know what to think

What I'm thinking right now is that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one(theres a name for that theory but I can't remember it right now, if someone could tell me that would be cool.) Anyways, I cannot see how the government could organize all of this to happen, and somehow manage to keep everyone quiet about it. Therefore, I think that I plane had to have been flown into the pentagon, but this conspiracy is very interesting to think about.

[ohlookitspaul]

i just think they're trying to get people aware that the "facts" that everyone takes for granted may not always be facts and the story that everybody believes may not be the truth in fact and there are other things people should think about. that's what i got from the video anyways.

[Bikeage]

What I'm thinking right now is that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one(theres a name for that theory but I can't remember it right now, if someone could tell me that would be cool.) Anyways, I cannot see how the government could organize all of this to happen, and somehow manage to keep everyone quiet about it. Therefore, I think that I plane had to have been flown into the pentagon, but this conspiracy is very interesting to think about.

right.. a government can run a country, but can't control the people/things that happen in it? that seems pretty dumb, if they can organize TONS Of other covert ops/cover ups i'm sure they coudl just as easily have done this.

[cal1082]

right.. a government can run a country, but can't control the people/things that happen in it? that seems pretty dumb, if they can organize TONS Of other covert ops/cover ups i'm sure they coudl just as easily have done this.

Name one covert op that was just as big as Sept. 11th would have been?
Meaning look at everyone that would have to be involved.

[BrandNew20]

right.. a government can run a country, but can't control the people/things that happen in it? that seems pretty dumb, if they can organize TONS Of other covert ops/cover ups i'm sure they coudl just as easily have done this.

I just think that this cover up would be much to large to organize and successfully pull off.

[yeat182]

What I'm thinking right now is that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one(theres a name for that theory but I can't remember it right now, if someone could tell me that would be cool.) Anyways, I cannot see how the government could organize all of this to happen, and somehow manage to keep everyone quiet about it. Therefore, I think that I plane had to have been flown into the pentagon, but this conspiracy is very interesting to think about.


its called Ockam's razor

[BrandNew20]

its called Ockam's razor

thanks.

[fractions]

haha.
nothing is impossible.

[xnotedgex]

dude I don't even know what this whole current discussion is about but I just want to know why the names MUST be arabic in order for them to be terrorists. I'm sorry I just take offense sometimes cause I have an arabic name ya know? oh well.

the point im making is, no one on the passenger list had an arabic name....if they used fake names, how do we know who was really on the plane?

[richter915]

the point im making is, no one on the passenger list had an arabic name....if they used fake names, how do we know who was really on the plane?
exactly. I understand what you mean now...it's just adding more ambuigity and problems to this already complex situation.

After watching this video the whole scenario seems extremly wild and a bit farfetched...but again...I doubt the US gov't would do anything like this...but then you wonder who can be blamed for producing the wreckage there in that manner and where is that plane. (just trying to rekindle this heated conversation)