Rock The Vote

[Jason Tate]

Watch the debates tonight.

[deadEYEDwelcome]

oh yes, everyone watch the debates

[Speyside]

I check this site everyday. It's pretty cool.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

[djUbilla]

Yes, sir!

Well, I'm going to my high school's homecoming, but we'll probably watch it TiVoed afterwards...oh yeah, we're cool kids...

[archamedes]

Yes they should be quite interesting.

[Jason Tate]

I check this site everyday. It's pretty cool.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
What a cool website.

[dretti]

It's friday....I'm going to have to go with tivo

[aminorthreat55]

What a cool website.

Very.

[I am all talk]

i have an idea. An idea so magnificant that you will not have to compromise your social or political needs and desires. Have a debate party. Watch, discuss, and party.

[djUbilla]

I check this site everyday. It's pretty cool.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Make sure you check this one, too:

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.html


Haha...it's funny because I'm pretty sure there's no real stastical merit to either one. If somebody cares to look into it some more. Lemme know.

[resUrectMe617]

i really do get too excited over these debates...


and it sucks because i can't even vote.

[PerfectMess]

i have an idea. An idea so magnificant that you will not have to compromise your social or political needs and desires. Have a debate party. Watch, discuss, and party.

Heh thats what we did during the last one...yay for political college kids...

[halfpricepizza]

Watch the debates tonight.

Why? Republicans are always right.

[dretti]

i have an idea. An idea so magnificant that you will not have to compromise your social or political needs and desires. Have a debate party. Watch, discuss, and party.


hahahahahahahahahahaahaha

WHAT

hahahaahahahahaha

[MistaChang]

I check this site everyday. It's pretty cool.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Quite a cool site. It gives me hope.

[cal1082]

i have an idea. An idea so magnificant that you will not have to compromise your social or political needs and desires. Have a debate party. Watch, discuss, and party.

http://www.talkingpointsbingo.com/ <----------- You can start here.

[twe]

i think i'll watch the Daily Show instead.

[Summer Phoenix]

i have an idea. An idea so magnificant that you will not have to compromise your social or political needs and desires. Have a debate party. Watch, discuss, and party.


Hahaha you're a genius.

[Throwback]

Pshh, not watching the debates is better.

Its what a man does.

[hinkelmanf]

watch the texas OU game tomorrow, and the Cal and USC


POOP ON STOOPS!

[Scott Weber]

i think i'll watch the Daily Show instead.

not a substitute for watching the actual issues being debated. I love Jon Stewart, but he should not be the source for your political info.

[Tony]

not a substitute for watching the actual issues being debated. I love Jon Stewart, but he should not be the source for your political info.
No, but for someone who already has their mind made up, it's a great source of entertainment because you get to see the highlights of the candidates making fools of themselves.

With that, I'll be watching both!

[I am all talk]

Hahaha you're a genius.

I know

[aminorthreat55]

not a substitute for watching the actual issues being debated. I love Jon Stewart, but he should not be the source for your political info.

Oh wait, what about that survey that was on CNN? They know more about politics than viewers of any other late show and people who read newspapers four days a week, granted there are even better ways to learn about politics, but still.

[knivesbatstats]

that site is such BS, kerry is not ahead and bush did not have a hearing aid device on his ear during the first debate, demos are just trying to get the spotlight off the drudge video where kerry pulls out a cheat sheet out of his coat pocket... tate go here to see what your candidate's views are... http://johnkerryads.websiteanimal.com/

[Mercy Medical]

I've got to do some debating of my own tonight...."math debating" that is. ;)

[billcom6]

screw the debate

yankess vs twins

[halfpricepizza]

screw the debate

yankess vs twins

word. the twins are republicans and the yankees are democrats. You root for your political affliation/favorite team. Choose to vote this way.

[andyriggedrec]

any one else see the snl debate? that shit was goooood

[AudioBoxer624]

Quick, somebody think of a debate drinking game.

[twe]

not a substitute for watching the actual issues being debated. I love Jon Stewart, but he should not be the source for your political info.
he's not my source for political information. i watched the first debates, even though i've decided to vote for Kerry for a while now. that show is really funny though.

[knivesbatstats]

Quick, somebody think of a debate drinking game.

everytime they say "president"?

[burnpianoisland]

word. the twins are republicans and the yankees are democrats. You root for your political affliation/favorite team. Choose to vote this way.

FUCK THE YANKEES! GO SOX.
oh, and kerry's gay, and bush is gay. Chuck E. Cheese 04.

[Jason Tate]

Kerry basically just kicked Bush's ass. Wow, impressive.

[aminorthreat55]

Kerry basically just kicked Bush's ass. Wow, impressive.

Yessir, I concur.

[Bikeage]

ya agreed... one thing i noticed was most of the time when bush was talking kerry would go to his note pad & write something down, bush rarely did it

it was also funny bush when said "i'm still trying to decipher that" cuz he coudlnt' understand what was said

[Jason Tate]

And Bush kept standing up while Kerry was still talking, very un-professional. Still, that was better than the fact that he was using a sharpie to take notes during the last debate ... that sound was annoying me last time.

[Bikeage]

ya he kept jumping up... and that whole "need any wood thing" was dumb, imo.. talk about stalling

the wrost thing i saw kerry do was that stutter when he was talking about stem cells & some of the things he thought they could cure

[Trainsaw]

Bush's dumbass "Wanna buy some timber?" comment is fucking retarded. Factcheck.org:

President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)

[AudioBoxer624]

Kerry basically just kicked Bush's ass. Wow, impressive.

I think Kerry's biggest success of the evening was getting the President pissed off, especially when Bush snapped at Charlie Gibson and refused to let him ask a follow-up question. If Howard Dean's scream did him in during the primaries, I wonder how this will affect the election.

[Bikeage]

rofl ya, he got his panties in a twist

[Jason Tate]

Bush's dumbass "Wanna buy some timber?" comment is fucking retarded. Factcheck.org:

President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)
Beautiful work. Haha, Cheney's own website plug ...

[Trainsaw]

Beautiful work. Haha, Cheney's own website plug ...

yeah cheney fucked it up and said factcheck.com which redirected to a george soros site (way to go dumbass) but the site he was looking for is factcheck.org

btw they don't have the redirect to soros' site anymore

[AudioBoxer624]

And did anybody else notice that, whenever they focused the camera on Bush while Kerry spoke, he had the non-obedient golden retriever look on his face?

[Jason Tate]

And did anybody else notice that, whenever they focused the camera on Bush while Kerry spoke, he had the non-obedient golden retriever look on his face?
In between a crazy number of blinks that I can only imagine were crafted to hypnotise me.

[AudioBoxer624]

In between a crazy number of blinks that I can only imagine were crafted to hypnotise me.

And the eyebrows, too. I swore he thought he was Groucho Marx.

[Bikeage]

ya, kerry did a good job of looking people in the eye making eye contact.. .bush would just wonder off a lot... to me, if i ask someone a question i want them focusing on me but i dont know

[Trainsaw]

Because Bush has very little tolerence when someone disagrees with him. That's why he's a horrible leader, He can't respect the views of someone else. That's why he said "To Hell" the U.N. and ran into war with Iraq. A President has to know how to comprimise to get to the greater good.

[splitsecond]

I think that is an ignorant comment. Every country has to look out for itself. The president doesnt need to respect anyone's views who he thinks could harm the country, regardless of whether he is right or not.

[splitsecond]

"I own a lumber company? Need some wood?"

[Jason Tate]

I think that is an ignorant comment. Every country has to look out for itself. The president doesnt need to respect anyone's views who he thinks could harm the country, regardless of whether he is right or not.
Now you sound like the German people when they were supporting Hitler.

Honestly, think that out logically, it's exactly the same argument that could be applied to all those history deems as "basically the crazy ones ..."

[AudioBoxer624]

If there's anything that MTV has done best in the last 12 years, it was having President Clinton do the town hall forum back in 1992. Does anybody else think that they should bring it back?

I am of the impression that if you want to convince our generation to vote, then you have to go out and prove to them that they should be as concerned with the problems our country faces as the average middle-aged American, possibly even more concerned.

I know this is probably just preaching to the choir, but I just want to say to somebody: Politicians need to make our generation know that we matter at helping make our country better.

<End rant>

[Jason Tate]

"I own a lumber company? Need some wood?"

I picture this when he said that:

[Jason Tate]

If there's anything that MTV has done best in the last 12 years, it was having President Clinton do the town hall forum back in 1992. Does anybody else think that they should bring it back?

I am of the impression that if you want to convince our generation to vote, then you have to go out and prove to them that they should be as concerned with the problems our country faces as the average middle-aged American, possibly even more concerned.

I know this is probably just preaching to the choir, but I just want to say to somebody: Politicians need to make our generation know that we matter at helping make our country better.

<End rant>
Which is why I think Kerry going on John Stewart was awesome.

[Bikeage]

rofl ^^^

and ya tate's right, but sadly many americans think this.. our reason for invading iraq is the exact reason he used to invade poland

[aminorthreat55]

I think that is an ignorant comment. Every country has to look out for itself. The president doesnt need to respect anyone's views who he thinks could harm the country, regardless of whether he is right or not.

I would disagree, I think everyone needs to respect everyone else's views. That DOES NOT mean they need to follow them. It's much better to just listen to what they say and they do what you need to do rather than say "oh piss-off, you don't matter."

[aminorthreat55]

"I own a lumber company? Need some wood?"

That was great. In a stupid George W. Bush way, as in the fact we will see that on the calendar of stupid quotes in the coming years.

[aminorthreat55]

Which is why I think Kerry going on John Stewart was awesome.

YES, and the other late night shows, the best the Preisdent can do is have a three-part interview played on the O'Reilly Factor on Fox News.

[Jason Tate]

That was great. In a stupid George W. Bush way, as in the fact we will see that on the calendar of stupid quotes in the coming years.
Especially seeing as it has now been (as posted in earlier, and below) proven that he's an idiot. He doesn't even know what he owns, yet he's our President???

Factcheck.org:

"President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)"

I liked "the internets" comment though.

[AudioBoxer624]

I shot water out my nose laughing at the internets quote.

[splitsecond]

Isnt it possible that factcheck even got it wrong?

[aminorthreat55]

Especially seeing as it has now been (as posted in earlier, and below) proven that he's an idiot. He doesn't even know what he owns, yet he's our President???

Factcheck.org:

"President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)"

I liked "the internets" comment though.

I saw that, when I watched the debate here on campus, it was me and 3 republicans, and they thought John Kerry looked like a fool on the lumber issue, oh boy were they wrong, and the internets thing was great too.

[cal1082]

Good debate. Your a fool if you think either one got there ass handed to them. Both presented their points well, and you could clearly see the differences in the two.

But as far as actual debating when both looked fine. Kerry could have talked about old reruns of "Step By Step" and Jason would have thought Kerry was brillant. Honestly it goes without saying he would have thought Kerry won.

Now can you think Kerry won? Sure......can you think Bush won? Sure but I'd like to see some reasons why. Lot's of blinking doesnt count Jason.

[splitsecond]

I would disagree, I think everyone needs to respect everyone else's views. That DOES NOT mean they need to follow them. It's much better to just listen to what they say and they do what you need to do rather than say "oh piss-off, you don't matter."


When did Bush not listen to other views? How can you prove he didnt? He does what he thinks is right, and it pisses people off that he doesnt compromise when he thinks compromising will harm our safety. Whether you agree with decisions he has made or not, you have to give him some props for his ability to stay firm and not bend to polls and political gain, which is something you cant say for Kerry.

This argument is dead, because no one here ever fucking listens to what people say on the other side, especially the ring leader Jason Tate. We can sit here and debate all night, but we know none of us are going to be changing who we vote for (for those of us who will actually vote).

[aminorthreat55]

Good debate. Your a fool if you think either one got there ass handed to them. Both presented their points well, and you could clearly see the differences in the two.

But as far as actual debating when both looked fine. Kerry could have talked about old reruns of "Step By Step" and Jason would have thought Kerry was brillant. Honestly it goes without saying he would have thought Kerry won.

Now can you think Kerry won? Sure......can you think Bush won? Sure but I'd like to see some reasons why. Lot's of blinking doesnt count Jason.

Eh, maybe, although the post-debate polls are HEAVILY favoring Kerry, check out the one on CNN.

[splitsecond]

Good debate. Your a fool if you think either one got there ass handed to them. Both presented their points well, and you could clearly see the differences in the two.

But as far as actual debating when both looked fine. Kerry could have talked about old reruns of "Step By Step" and Jason would have thought Kerry was brillant. Honestly it goes without saying he would have thought Kerry won.

Now can you think Kerry won? Sure......can you think Bush won? Sure but I'd like to see some reasons why. Lot's of blinking doesnt count Jason.

My thoughts exactly. Kerry did well, and I hate him. Bush did well, and I like him. I can give them BOTH good reviews. What it really comes down to is who you agree with.

I do have to say, I really think the way Bush speaks translates better to the average working person. Kerry used a couple words tonight that I know left some of the in house audience confused. I also like the fact that Bush is actually able to JOKE, even if his jokes arent funny to some of us.

[Jason Tate]

Good debate. Your a fool if you think either one got there ass handed to them. Both presented their points well, and you could clearly see the differences in the two.

But as far as actual debating when both looked fine. Kerry could have talked about old reruns of "Step By Step" and Jason would have thought Kerry was brillant. Honestly it goes without saying he would have thought Kerry won.

Now can you think Kerry won? Sure......can you think Bush won? Sure but I'd like to see some reasons why. Lot's of blinking doesnt count Jason.
Reasons why? Because of Bush's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with. Besides that, I think that being caught flat out over the "timber" issue by the website your VP promotes in his debate, is a sure sign of going down in flames.

The President constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Kerry was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Kerry won.... handedly.

[splitsecond]

Eh, maybe, although the post-debate polls are HEAVILY favoring Kerry, check out the one on CNN.

You have to remember, the people voting right now are the people who are lame asses like us and are home on a friday night. I really dont see how anyone could clearly say Kerry won, or even Bush for that matter. Its all in who you agree with.

[aminorthreat55]

When did Bush not listen to other views? How can you prove he didnt? He does what he thinks is right, and it pisses people off that he doesnt compromise when he thinks compromising will harm our safety. Whether you agree with decisions he has made or not, you have to give him some props for his ability to stay firm and not bend to polls and political gain, which is something you cant say for Kerry.

This argument is dead, because no one here ever fucking listens to what people say on the other side, especially the ring leader Jason Tate. We can sit here and debate all night, but we know none of us are going to be changing who we vote for (for those of us who will actually vote).

I never accused Bush of not listening to others' views, can you read? Or should I post it again? There is also a difference between being stubborn and being firm, and I give him negative props. I always listen to what people say on the other side, then I look at the facts and make my decision. Frankly, you could pick apart both candidates on lots of issues, or almost any Washington politician, but thats besides the point.

[Jason Tate]

My thoughts exactly. Kerry did well, and I hate him. Bush did well, and I like him. I can give them BOTH good reviews. What it really comes down to is who you agree with.

I do have to say, I really think the way Bush speaks translates better to the average working person. Kerry used a couple words tonight that I know left some of the in house audience confused. I also like the fact that Bush is actually able to JOKE, even if his jokes arent funny to some of us.
Why did you vote for Bush to be the most powerful man in the world?
He's funny.

To quote Friends, "if he's funny .. LAUGH."

[rawkmandale]

I was pleased to hear President Bush forcefully say that "There will be no draft while I am President of the United States." The news media has not been communicating his previous statements along that line, so it was good that he could get that message out.

[splitsecond]

Reasons why? Because of Bush's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with. Besides that, I think that being caught flat out over the "timber" issue by the website your VP promotes in his debate, is a sure sign of going down in flames.

The President constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Kerry was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Kerry won.... handedly.

Jason, you're a fucking blind moron. You see what you want to see. Bush did not get "flustered" in the debate. Thats the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. He got flustered last debate, yes. This time he was good. I don't see how you can not see that.

[Jason Tate]

You have to remember, the people voting right now are the people who are lame asses like us and are home on a friday night. I really dont see how anyone could clearly say Kerry won, or even Bush for that matter. Its all in who you agree with.
Disagree completely. I think those that support Bush will say "it can't be decided" because they can't say Bush won at all. Kerry supports will say Kerry won, and the undecided (those that mattered) will (in my opinion) also in the end show to favor Kerry having won this debate.

[Jason Tate]

Jason, you're a fucking blind moron. You see what you want to see. Bush did not get "flustered" in the debate. Thats the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. He got flustered last debate, yes. This time he was good. I don't see how you can not see that.
Arguing with the moderator, taping his foot over and over, turning red, raising his voice ... (need I go on?) Guess I'm a fucking moron (argumentum ad hominem yourself.. )

[cal1082]

Eh, maybe, although the post-debate polls are HEAVILY favoring Kerry, check out the one on CNN.

You're also a fool if you look at post debate internet polls. Those are about as scientific as making jello. If you want to quote a poll wait for a scientific poll to come out in 2 or 3 days from a group like gallup.

You don't know the spin that goes into crap like internet polls. Example, Los Angeles Times had emails coming in after last debate declaring Kerry the winner. Thing was though that some of the emails came in before the debate even started. The democratic party was spreading the word to get democrats to vote in these polls and email the papers to declare Kerry the winner before the debate even occured. It's nuts to look at flash polls.

[Jason Tate]

I was pleased to hear President Bush forcefully say that "There will be no draft while I am President of the United States." The news media has not been communicating his previous statements along that line, so it was good that he could get that message out.
Made me feel as good inside as:

"read my lips, no new taxes" - GW's dad in a similar debate setting.

[aminorthreat55]

My thoughts exactly. Kerry did well, and I hate him. Bush did well, and I like him. I can give them BOTH good reviews. What it really comes down to is who you agree with.

I do have to say, I really think the way Bush speaks translates better to the average working person. Kerry used a couple words tonight that I know left some of the in house audience confused. I also like the fact that Bush is actually able to JOKE, even if his jokes arent funny to some of us.

How does it go? Seventy percent how you look, twenty percent how you sound, and ten percent what you say? Lets see, Kerry looked relaxed and Presidential, Bush looked like he was going to piss himself he jumped out of his seat so much. Kerry sounded confident, Bush sounded irritated and frustrated, especially when he snapped at the moderator, BIG MISTAKE. As far as what they said, Kerry was much more clear than the President, regardless of language. It is true he translates better to the average working person, too bad he doesn't represent their interests! Personally, many of us were laughing at him when he joked, not with him.

[splitsecond]

I never accused Bush of not listening to others' views, can you read? Or should I post it again? There is also a difference between being stubborn and being firm, and I give him negative props. I always listen to what people say on the other side, then I look at the facts and make my decision. Frankly, you could pick apart both candidates on lots of issues, or almost any Washington politician, but thats besides the point.

People view him as firm or stubborn based on their party affiliation or whether they agree with his ideologies. Bottom line. I see it as firm after watching Clinton bow to every political pressure in order to see his rating go up. I also see it as firm because the STATED GOALS of many european nations whom we ignored going into Iraq has been, for the past 25+ years, to "balance" the world out and take over economic leverage from the U.S. That isnt necessarily wrong, because they are looking out for themselves as they should be, but it is something you cant ignore when they come out opposed to something the U.S. does.

[Jason Tate]

You're also a fool if you look at post debate internet polls. Those are about as scientific as making jello. If you want to quote a poll wait for a scientific poll to come out in 2 or 3 days from a group like gallup.

You don't know the spin that goes into crap like internet polls. Example, Los Angeles Times had emails coming in after last debate declaring Kerry the winner. Thing was though that some of the emails came in before the debate even started. The democratic party was spreading the word to get democrats to vote in these polls and email the papers to declare Kerry the winner before the debate even occured. It's nuts to look at flash polls.
Gallup said Kerry won last debate, and I even I thought he didn't do as well as tonight. Tonight I thought was a sure fire win, so I am gonna go on a limb and say that even Gallup will vindicate my reasoning again.

[aminorthreat55]

I was pleased to hear President Bush forcefully say that "There will be no draft while I am President of the United States." The news media has not been communicating his previous statements along that line, so it was good that he could get that message out.

He said that in the last debate, and if somehow there turns out to be a draft in the next four years and he is President (God forbid), I'm going to Washington and putting that shit in his face.

[splitsecond]

Arguing with the moderator, taping his foot over and over, turning red, raising his voice ... (need I go on?) Guess I'm a fucking moron (argumentum ad hominem yourself.. )


I dont think flustered is the correct word to use. I'd get irritated too if I had a man standing next to me claiming he is going to do things if he is President that go COMPLETELY AGAINST HIS POLITICAL TRACK RECORD.

I can give you that he gets irritated. Flustered just isnt the word. (I am very anal with vocabulary, thats what law school does to you, sorry).

[cal1082]

Reasons why? Because of Bush's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with. Besides that, I think that being caught flat out over the "timber" issue by the website your VP promotes in his debate, is a sure sign of going down in flames.

The President constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Kerry was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Kerry won.... handedly.

"Out of all that you showed one example from the debate and that was the timber part. Anyone can just say what you said except swapt the names. Watch how this works Jason:

Reasons why? Because of Kerry's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with.
The Senator constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Bush was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Bush won.... handedly"

See how easy it is when you generalize. :lol2:

[splitsecond]

It is true he translates better to the average working person, too bad he doesn't represent their interests!



Oh I disagree. Maybe you and I just know different average working people.

[aminorthreat55]

You're also a fool if you look at post debate internet polls. Those are about as scientific as making jello. If you want to quote a poll wait for a scientific poll to come out in 2 or 3 days from a group like gallup.

You don't know the spin that goes into crap like internet polls. Example, Los Angeles Times had emails coming in after last debate declaring Kerry the winner. Thing was though that some of the emails came in before the debate even started. The democratic party was spreading the word to get democrats to vote in these polls and email the papers to declare Kerry the winner before the debate even occured. It's nuts to look at flash polls.

It's true that they aren't scientific, I know that. Although I bet in those 2 or 3 days that people's minds aren't going to change from 80% thought Kerry won to more than 50% though Bush won. The whole point is to be an indication, and that would indicate Kerry won.

[cal1082]

Reasons why? Because of Bush's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with. Besides that, I think that being caught flat out over the "timber" issue by the website your VP promotes in his debate, is a sure sign of going down in flames.

The President constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Kerry was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Kerry won.... handedly.

You gave one example, and out of all the points you brought up the meaningless timber point. You generalize so much I can just switch the names in your quote (look below). You want to say Kerry whipped Bush's ass in a debate all you have to do is show precise examples.

"Out of all that you showed one example from the debate and that was the timber part. Anyone can just say what you said except swapt the names. Watch how this works Jason:

Reasons why? Because of Kerry's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with.
The Senator constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Bush was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Bush won.... handedly"

See how easy it is when you generalize. :lol2:

[Jason Tate]

I dont think flustered is the correct word to use. I'd get irritated too if I had a man standing next to me claiming he is going to do things if he is President that go COMPLETELY AGAINST HIS POLITICAL TRACK RECORD.

I can give you that he gets irritated. Flustered just isnt the word. (I am very anal with vocabulary, thats what law school does to you, sorry).

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/flustered

I hit an extra S and spelled it wrong, didn't grammatically use it wrong. My bad.

[splitsecond]

"Out of all that you showed one example from the debate and that was the timber part. Anyone can just say what you said except swapt the names. Watch how this works Jason:

Reasons why? Because of Kerry's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with.
The Senator constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Bush was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Bush won.... handedly"

See how easy it is when you generalize. :lol2:

Again goes to show that people will see this how they want to. I have stated (maybe not here) that I think both candidates performed well, and basically showed the differences between them. The country is a very partisan place right now, and the vast majority of people are just going to vote the party line no matter which party they identify with.

[aminorthreat55]

You gave one example, and out of all the points you brought up the meaningless timber point. You generalize so much I can just switch the names in your quote (look below). You want to say Kerry whipped Bush's ass in a debate all you have to do is show precise examples.

"Out of all that you showed one example from the debate and that was the timber part. Anyone can just say what you said except swapt the names. Watch how this works Jason:

Reasons why? Because of Kerry's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with.
The Senator constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Bush was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Bush won.... handedly"

See how easy it is when you generalize. :lol2:

Except that statement wasn't true, the other was.

[Jason Tate]

You gave one example, and out of all the points you brought up the meaningless timber point. You generalize so much I can just switch the names in your quote (look below). You want to say Kerry whipped Bush's ass in a debate all you have to do is show precise examples.

"Out of all that you showed one example from the debate and that was the timber part. Anyone can just say what you said except swapt the names. Watch how this works Jason:

Reasons why? Because of Kerry's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with.
The Senator constantly was getting flusstered, didn't answer the questions, and Bush was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

That's just a start of why Bush won.... handedly"

See how easy it is when you generalize. :lol2:
UH, except anyone watching could agree with my statment, yours .. not so much

[Trainsaw]

When did Bush not listen to other views? How can you prove he didnt? He does what he thinks is right, and it pisses people off that he doesnt compromise when he thinks compromising will harm our safety. Whether you agree with decisions he has made or not, you have to give him some props for his ability to stay firm and not bend to polls and political gain, which is something you cant say for Kerry.


He doesn't listen to other people's views. We had 3 of the main U.N. leaders veto our request to go to Iraq. What does he do? He invades anyways because there are "WMD's". Yet when something goes wrong who do we rely on, the U.N.

Now instead of accepting he made a mistake he goes and says "Everyone thought there were WMD's" Well sorry Mr. Bush but not everyone is the leader of the United States. He needs to accept that he fucked up and stop trying to make this a mutual blame. We had plenty of people oppose this war yet he was the one on tv trying to convince us that going to war was the right thing to do. So what does the American public do? trust their leader, well we were pretty much fooled by this idiot we have running the country. Yes he does admit that he made a mistake by saying there was WMD's but then he turns around and makes the excuse that they had a crazy dictator that needed to be taken down so "its all good". Well what about N.Korea who actually does have WMD's. Bush is a big pussy and had a personal agenda. He saw 9/11 as his opportunity to take Saddam out and it was proven that he had plans even before 9/11

[cal1082]

Gallup said Kerry won last debate, and I even I thought he didn't do as well as tonight. Tonight I thought was a sure fire win, so I am gonna go on a limb and say that even Gallup will vindicate my reasoning again.

That would be fair enough. If they do show Kerry winning I dont think it'll show a lopsided win, but I could be wrong. At least you can have some backing on something that's scientificaly done.

[Jason Tate]

Oh I disagree. Maybe you and I just know different average working people.
Your avg working people make millions? I wish I was one of them!!!!!

[splitsecond]

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/flustered

I hit an extra S and spelled it wrong, didn't grammatically use it wrong. My bad.

flustered

Fluster \Flus"ter\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Flustered; p. pr. & vb. n. Flustering.] [Cf. Icel. flaustra to be flustered, flaustr a fluster.] To make hot and rosy, as with drinking; to heat; hence, to throw into agitation and confusion; to confuse; to muddle.

His habit or flustering himself daily with claret. --Macaulay.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


flustered

adj : thrown into a state of agitated confusion; (`rattled' is an informal term) [syn: hot and bothered(p), perturbed, rattled]



I think it is an overexaggeration. I think irritated is the correct word. Thats my opinion.

[rawkmandale]

The flash polls are stupid, and they are manipulated. I went to a few news sites, and noticed that even the one on FOX News (not the home of many liberals) showed 70% for Kerry within a very few minutes of being posted. I willl guarantee that the number was "pushed" by organized "voting" and, if they leave it up for a few days, it will swing heavily the other way as those early "voters" go back to whatever they usually do in life - not read FOX News postings.

[splitsecond]

Your avg working people make millions? I wish I was one of them!!!!!

Thats an ignorant comment. Do you know me? I come from an average working family, and all of my friends come from average working familes. Most of them agree with Bush. Of course, your whole life has been on the left coast, so you wouldnt know anything about conservatives anyways.

[Jason Tate]

The flash polls are stupid, and they are manipulated. I went to a few news sites, and noticed that even the one on FOX News (not the home of many liberals) showed 70% for Kerry within a very few minutes of being posted. I willl guarantee that the number was "pushed" by organized "voting" and, if they leave it up for a few days, it will swing heavily the other way as those early "voters" go back to whatever they usually do in life - not read FOX News postings.
That's what everyone said last time (even after GWB.com sent out their letter telling everyone on their e-mailing list how to vote on online polls [yes, I'm a member of their newsletter]) yet, it didn't happen that way. Just food for thought.

[cal1082]

UH, except anyone watching could agree with my statment, yours .. not so much

show me some examples of: Bush's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with

or some examples of: Kerry was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.

[aminorthreat55]

Of course, your whole life has been on the left coast, so you wouldnt know anything about conservatives anyways.

Except for that guy, whats his name, I think he was Governor of California, and then President, on yeah, Ronald Reagan.

[Jason Tate]

Thats an ignorant comment. Do you know me? I come from an average working family, and all of my friends come from average working familes. Most of them agree with Bush. Of course, your whole life has been on the left coast, so you wouldnt know anything about conservatives anyways.
Yah, Southern Cali knows nothing about conservatives. /rolls eyes.

I am just saying you're fighthing a basic fundamental conception of the two parties, and which party fights for the middle class. I know how much my family benifited from the tax cut, and how much this administration hurt our finances. I can only base it on facts.

[splitsecond]

He doesn't listen to other people's views. We had 3 of the main U.N. leaders veto our request to go to Iraq. What does he do? He invades anyways because there are "WMD's". Yet when something goes wrong who do we rely on, the U.N.

Now instead of accepting he made a mistake he goes and says "Everyone thought there were WMD's" Well sorry Mr. Bush but not everyone is the leader of the United States. He needs to accept that he fucked up and stop trying to make this a mutual blame. We had plenty of people oppose this war yet he was the one on tv trying to convince us that going to war was the right thing to do. So what does the American public do? trust their leader, well we were pretty much fooled by this idiot we have running the country. Yes he does admit that he made a mistake by saying there was WMD's but then he turns around and makes the excuse that they had a crazy dictator that needed to be taken down so "its all good". Well what about N.Korea who actually does have WMD's. Bush is a big pussy and had a personal agenda. He saw 9/11 as his opportunity to take Saddam out and it was proven that he had plans even before 9/11


Every senator and representative who saw the same intelligence data Bush saw ARE leaders of the United States though, INCLUDING senator Kerry.

But hey, if you want to keep believing conspiracy theories, thats your own problem.

[aminorthreat55]

Yah, Southern Cali knows nothing about conservatives. /rolls eyes.

I am just saying you're fighthing a basic fundamental conception of the two parties, and which party fights for the middle class. I know how much my family benifited from the tax cut, and how much this administration hurt our finances. I can only base it on facts.

Agreed.

[Jason Tate]

show me some examples of: Bush's argumentum ad baculum, ad homenium, slippery slope and about 20 other logical fallacies to start with

or some examples of: Kerry was able to go, "quote, statement, opinion, idea, quote" - and bring in quotes from those involved in order to back up what he was saying.
It's also a false argument to ask me to show you something you can find easily by reading the transcript. However, I'll do just that in an hour or so .. I'm gonna go get some KFC to eat, watch a little TV, and then maybe I'll recheck the forum and respond to your little challenge. It's actually more fun being challenged like this, because then you really look "owned" (for lack of a better word) when I come back and do it.

[mwhpunk]

i, and basically everyone that i know, am voting for Bush. i hope you all will do the same.

[splitsecond]

Yah, Southern Cali knows nothing about conservatives. /rolls eyes.

I am just saying you're fighthing a basic fundamental conception of the two parties, and which party fights for the middle class. I know how much my family benifited from the tax cut, and how much this administration hurt our finances. I can only base it on facts.

And I know how much MY family benefitted from the tax cuts. I actually asked my mother about it the other day, and she told me she felt like they got a pretty good deal out of it (and she is a registered Democrat who supports Bush now). We are somewhere in the middle of the middle class, with my parents grossing somewhere around 100k combined.

[splitsecond]

i, and basically everyone that i know, am voting for Bush. i hope you all will do the same.

Well according to Mr. Tate, you must only know rich people.

[mwhpunk]

Well according to Mr. Tate, you must only know rich people.
haha FAR from it.

[aminorthreat55]

And I know how much MY family benefitted from the tax cuts. I actually asked my mother about it the other day, and she told me she felt like they got a pretty good deal out of it (and she is a registered Democrat who supports Bush now). We are somewhere in the middle of the middle class, with my parents grossing somewhere around 100k combined.

Wait, I thought earlier you had said working class, not middle class, oops, maybe it's just me. QUICK! Edit all your posts!!

[cal1082]

It's also a false argument to ask me to show you something you can find easily by reading the transcript. However, I'll do just that in an hour or so .. I'm gonna go get some KFC to eat, watch a little TV, and then maybe I'll recheck the forum and respond to your little challenge. It's actually more fun being challenged like this, because then you really look "owned" (for lack of a better word) when I come back and do it.

Thankyou, and perhaps after you do that I'll refute. Most likely will be tomorrow afternoon before I can (work at 7 in the morning) but as soon as I can I will.

I could either try refuting, or I can just try to show you the weak points that Kerry raised in response to Bush's. Your call

[splitsecond]

Wait, I thought earlier you had said working class, not middle class, oops, maybe it's just me. QUICK! Edit all your posts!!

I am fairly certain that working class and middle class is the same thing. Unless of course you are saying only poor people work.

[aminorthreat55]

I am fairly certain that working class and middle class is the same thing. Unless of course you are saying only poor people work.

Yes and no, they overlap. I wouldn't say they are the same, because a family of four who earns over $100,000 a year is middle class, but definitely not working class.

[splitsecond]

Yes and no, they overlap. I wouldn't say they are the same, because a family of four who earns over $100,000 a year is middle class, but definitely not working class.

Thats a load of shit. My family works their ass off for that money. Fuck off.

[Adam Brody]

My favorite contradiction of the night (I'm paraphrasing):

Bush on Stem-Cell Research:
"Taking people's lives in order to save other's is morally wrong."

Bush on Iraq war (from first debate):
"The lives lost in Iraq are for a good cause...keeping this country safe."

[aminorthreat55]

Thats a load of shit. My family works their ass off for that money. Fuck off.

I'm not trying to say that at all, because that's my family too, I'm just saying there is a large difference between a family that works hard and makes over $100,000 and can provide for their family and people who work their asses off just to pay the rent and feed their family, barely scraping by. Personally I think that is the difference between middle and working class.

[Jason Tate]

haha FAR from it.
Uh, you're the one that said that litte tid-bit of information, I just insinuated a little more down those lines.

[thewk]

rabble rabble
all bow to tate.

[Jason Tate]

rabble rabble
all bow to tate.
Where did the "rabble rabble" orignate from? I thought I had invented it 3 years ago at a soccer game while I was making fun of the coach on the other team, however; recently it has sprung up everywhere online and on tv, and at other sporting events. Where did you hear it/get it from? I must know.

[splitsecond]

I'm not trying to say that at all, because that's my family too, I'm just saying there is a large difference between a family that works hard and makes over $100,000 and can provide for their family and people who work their asses off just to pay the rent and feed their family, barely scraping by. Personally I think that is the difference between middle and working class.

I guess maybe its again another bad choice of wording. I mean, my family definitely works, so I dunno.

[Jason Tate]

I guess maybe its again another bad choice of wording. I mean, my family definitely works, so I dunno.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Middle_class

[aminorthreat55]

Tate loves him some dictionary, haha.

[wakingthefallen]

OH MY GOD.

I HAVE A TIMBER COMPANY??

*ONE MINUTE PAUSE*

need some wood?

[AudioBoxer624]

I think it's become obvious that once again, we must all read Jessi Klein's debate blog on CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/10/08/klein.blog/

This is beautiful. Bush just said that the administration before him endangered the environment by not making sure the forests were properly "harvested" in order to protect them from wildfires.

That's just beautiful. I have to say that's very comforting -- I've always considered the wetlands to be a real fire hazard. You know what else is very flammable? Panda bears. They're bone dry. We got at least two or three of those suckers at our national zoos. It's sad, but we should probably kill them for the sake of the greater good.

[thewk]

Where did the "rabble rabble" orignate from? I thought I had invented it 3 years ago at a soccer game while I was making fun of the coach on the other team, however; recently it has sprung up everywhere online and on tv, and at other sporting events. Where did you hear it/get it from? I must know.
well, my ap.net friend,
it sprung back into the mainstream on a south park episode
from a couple of years ago.
although, i haven't heard anyone really use it as much as you described.

[Jason Tate]

well, my ap.net friend,
it sprung back into the mainstream on a south park episode
from a couple of years ago.
although, i haven't heard anyone really use it as much as you described.
THAT"S IT! I knew i heard it some where. Thanks.

[aminorthreat55]

I think it's become obvious that once again, we must all read Jessi Klein's debate blog on CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/10/08/klein.blog/

This is beautiful. Bush just said that the administration before him endangered the environment by not making sure the forests were properly "harvested" in order to protect them from wildfires.

That's just beautiful. I have to say that's very comforting -- I've always considered the wetlands to be a real fire hazard. You know what else is very flammable? Panda bears. They're bone dry. We got at least two or three of those suckers at our national zoos. It's sad, but we should probably kill them for the sake of the greater good.

That is awesome.

[Jason Tate]

I think it's become obvious that once again, we must all read Jessi Klein's debate blog on CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/10/08/klein.blog/

This is beautiful. Bush just said that the administration before him endangered the environment by not making sure the forests were properly "harvested" in order to protect them from wildfires.

That's just beautiful. I have to say that's very comforting -- I've always considered the wetlands to be a real fire hazard. You know what else is very flammable? Panda bears. They're bone dry. We got at least two or three of those suckers at our national zoos. It's sad, but we should probably kill them for the sake of the greater good.
My favorite:

Is there a plan for the real threat?
Posted: 9:45 p.m. ET

Kerry is reminding us that airplane cargo is not x-rayed and our intelligence needs to be better. But again, he's not addressing the fact that Hilary Duff has a movie in theaters right now, and meanwhile, nothing is being done to protect our recording studios and record stores from her striking us again musically. Does he have any plan at all on this?

[AudioBoxer624]

well, my ap.net friend,
it sprung back into the mainstream on a south park episode
from a couple of years ago.
although, i haven't heard anyone really use it as much as you described.

Fittingly enough, it's from the episode where Cartman goes back in time to the writing of the Declaration of Independence.

[cal1082]

Thankyou, and perhaps after you do that I'll refute. Most likely will be tomorrow afternoon before I can (work at 7 in the morning) but as soon as I can I will.

I could either try refuting, or I can just try to show you the weak points that Kerry raised in response to Bush's. Your call

I would even challenge that if you have a well thought out piece and mines appropriate that you post them on the news section and let people read 2 sides to something.

You usually only put one side up, and that's fair, it's your site do as you please. It would be nice though to let everyone see both arguments.

[Jason Tate]

I would even challenge that if you have a well thought out piece and mines appropriate that you post them on the news section and let people read 2 sides to something.

You usually only put one side up, and that's fair, it's your site do as you please. It would be nice though to let everyone see both arguments.
On the debate, or on the canidates in general?

[cal1082]

On the debate, or on the canidates in general?

If you'd like to write something on the canidates in general that's fine, or if you would just rather critique the debate that's fine as well. Which ever you'd like.

**This is what I'd originally said though**

"You want to say Kerry whipped Bush's ass in a debate all you have to do is show precise examples. :

[thewk]

THAT"S IT! I knew i heard it some where. Thanks.
no problem, cheech

[Jason Tate]

isbushwired.com (heh, that's funny...)
needsomewood.com (registered quickly!)

the internets are crazy.

[SwedishHeat]

Now you sound like the German people when they were supporting Hitler.


Godwin'd!!

/fark

Well, Kerry said he wasn't going to raise taxes . . . but, isn't that what Democrats do??

it was also funny bush when said "i'm still trying to decipher that" cuz he coudlnt' understand what was said

I'm by no means pro-Bush, but honestly, what Kerry said to prompt that comment from Bush, was kind of confusing. I don't remember what exactly he was talking about, but what Kerry said was kind of long-winded and wordy. I'm a junior in college, by no means a PoliSci or English major, nor eloquent, but I know some big words, but what ever it was Kerry was saying was hard to decipher, I got the point, but only because they've been talking about the same stuff for the last three debates ($87 billion, wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, etc.). I'm tired of it, I don't like Bush, but I'm not convinced Kerry is going to be our savior, mostly because there's still a Republican Congress. And I don't think raising taxes on the rich is the way to go.

If John Kerry's going after the middle-class vote, he ought to start tailoring his message to them. It's weird watching the debates, if you didn't know any better, by the way they talked you'd think Bush was for the middle-class and Kerry is for the upper-class.

Also, I'm afraid that there's such a huge rift in the political system that no matter who the candidate is, there will always be an intense hatred for the other side. Maybe that's always the way it's always been, and I'm just becoming old enough now to see it, but it's kind of scary.

[aminorthreat55]

Godwin'd!!

/fark

Well, Kerry said he wasn't going to raise taxes . . . but, isn't that what Democrats do??



I'm by no means pro-Bush, but honestly, what Kerry said to prompt that comment from Bush, was kind of confusing. I don't remember what exactly he was talking about, but what Kerry said was kind of long-winded and wordy. I'm a junior in college, by no means a PoliSci or English major, nor eloquent, but I know some big words, but what ever it was Kerry was saying was hard to decipher, I got the point, but only because they've been talking about the same stuff for the last three debates ($87 billion, wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, etc.). I'm tired of it, I don't like Bush, but I'm not convinced Kerry is going to be our savior, mostly because there's still a Republican Congress. And I don't think raising taxes on the rich is the way to go.

If John Kerry's going after the middle-class vote, he ought to start tailoring his message to them. It's weird watching the debates, if you didn't know any better, by the way they talked you'd think Bush was for the middle-class and Kerry is for the upper-class.

Also, I'm afraid that there's such a huge rift in the political system that no matter who the candidate is, there will always be an intense hatred for the other side. Maybe that's always the way it's always been, and I'm just becoming old enough now to see it, but it's kind of scary.

Yeah, the political system is fucked beyond belief. We would need to roll back the clock to fix it, whatever.

[burnpianoisland]

this just in....kerry's gay, and jason tate is an idiot
(and i dont even like bush either, this is just what ive noticed.)

[The Bled 13]

Kerry is gay? I thought he had a wife.

[bigal00004]

George Bush is a Fascist. Think about it.

[The Bled 13]

Thinking...

[bigal00004]

Just thought I'd throw that out there for you guys. Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini were fascists too.

[splitsecond]

Fascist is the most abused political term on the planet right now. Please come up with something more original.

[The Bled 13]

It's not about an "original" term.

It's more like, that term isn't fitting.

[bigal00004]

It's more like, that term isn't fitting.
Why Not?

Since being elected, Bush has been increasing the social control government has. The Patriot Act gives the govt power to do practically anything if they think you might be a terrorist or associate with terrorists or look suspicious or something (you're either with us or against us so if you're opposed to the US you're probably a terrorist, right?), sounds alot like Fascism to me.
In his campaign, Bush is constantly talking about how Kerry is bad for the people. Terrorists want Kerry elected; Kerry would "make the world more dangerous" if elected. Sounds like he's making empty statements that put false fears into the minds of citizens, nobody wants a more dangerous world. The truth is, when Bush attacked Iraq, he used his war on terrorism as justification and went in even though the rest of the world opposed it, actions like these make terrorists hate us even more. They don't want to attack Americans because we 'love freedom' but because we bully others around like we own the place. By electing Bush, it shows that we approve of his actions. Also, Bush uses the war on terrorism as justification for everything, but just because it is against terrorism doesn't make it right.
Bush is a fascist, obviously he's not as bad as other historical fascists, but he does seem to be leaning toward authoritarianism.

[xThursdayxPTWx]

Why Not?

Since being elected, Bush has been increasing the social control government has. The Patriot Act gives the govt power to do practically anything if they think you might be a terrorist or associate with terrorists or look suspicious or something (you're either with us or against us so if you're opposed to the US you're probably a terrorist, right?), sounds alot like Fascism to me.
In his campaign, Bush is constantly talking about how Kerry is bad for the people. Terrorists want Kerry elected; Kerry would "make the world more dangerous" if elected. Sounds like he's making empty statements that put false fears into the minds of citizens, nobody wants a more dangerous world. The truth is, when Bush attacked Iraq, he used his war on terrorism as justification and went in even though the rest of the world opposed it, actions like these make terrorists hate us even more. They don't want to attack Americans because we 'love freedom' but because we bully others around like we own the place. By electing Bush, it shows that we approve of his actions. Also, Bush uses the war on terrorism as justification for everything, but just because it is against terrorism doesn't make it right.
Bush is a fascist, obviously he's not as bad as other historical fascists, but he does seem to be leaning toward authoritarianism.

wow, you took the words out of my mouth and added to them. well said.

[The Bled 13]

Why Not?

Since being elected, Bush has been increasing the social control government has. The Patriot Act gives the govt power to do practically anything if they think you might be a terrorist or associate with terrorists or look suspicious or something (you're either with us or against us so if you're opposed to the US you're probably a terrorist, right?), sounds alot like Fascism to me.
In his campaign, Bush is constantly talking about how Kerry is bad for the people. Terrorists want Kerry elected; Kerry would "make the world more dangerous" if elected. Sounds like he's making empty statements that put false fears into the minds of citizens, nobody wants a more dangerous world. The truth is, when Bush attacked Iraq, he used his war on terrorism as justification and went in even though the rest of the world opposed it, actions like these make terrorists hate us even more. They don't want to attack Americans because we 'love freedom' but because we bully others around like we own the place. By electing Bush, it shows that we approve of his actions. Also, Bush uses the war on terrorism as justification for everything, but just because it is against terrorism doesn't make it right.
Bush is a fascist, obviously he's not as bad as other historical fascists, but he does seem to be leaning toward authoritarianism.

I agree with what your saying. But still, he isn't a facist. And no one is going to take you serious if you just flat out say he is a facsit.

[bigal00004]

i guess thats why I put that last sentence in there.

[The Bled 13]

Alright.

[cal1082]

suppose it was wishfull thinking to believe someone would back generalizations with evidence

[cal1082]

Gallup said Kerry won last debate, and I even I thought he didn't do as well as tonight. Tonight I thought was a sure fire win, so I am gonna go on a limb and say that even Gallup will vindicate my reasoning again.

Gallup didnt vindicate your reasoning. They had them in a tie. Read the lead story.

http://www.gallup.com/