The Endorsements Are Raining In...

[Jason Tate]

I thought the New York Times' endorsement of John Kerry was one of the best worded reasonings for support, the full text is in the replies.

[Jason Tate]

October 17, 2004

John Kerry for President

Senator John Kerry goes toward the election with a base that is built more on opposition to George W. Bush than loyalty to his own candidacy. But over the last year we have come to know Mr. Kerry as more than just an alternative to the status quo. We like what we've seen. He has qualities that could be the basis for a great chief executive, not just a modest improvement on the incumbent.
We have been impressed with Mr. Kerry's wide knowledge and clear thinking - something that became more apparent once he was reined in by that two-minute debate light. He is blessedly willing to re-evaluate decisions when conditions change. And while Mr. Kerry's service in Vietnam was first over-promoted and then over-pilloried, his entire life has been devoted to public service, from the war to a series of elected offices. He strikes us, above all, as a man with a strong moral core.
*
There is no denying that this race is mainly about Mr. Bush's disastrous tenure. Nearly four years ago, after the Supreme Court awarded him the presidency, Mr. Bush came into office amid popular expectation that he would acknowledge his lack of a mandate by sticking close to the center. Instead, he turned the government over to the radical right.

Mr. Bush installed John Ashcroft, a favorite of the far right with a history of insensitivity to civil liberties, as attorney general. He sent the Senate one ideological, activist judicial nominee after another. He moved quickly to implement a far-reaching anti-choice agenda including censorship of government Web sites and a clampdown on embryonic stem cell research. He threw the government's weight against efforts by the University of Michigan to give minority students an edge in admission, as it did for students from rural areas or the offspring of alumni.

When the nation fell into recession, the president remained fixated not on generating jobs but rather on fighting the right wing's war against taxing the wealthy. As a result, money that could have been used to strengthen Social Security evaporated, as did the chance to provide adequate funding for programs the president himself had backed. No Child Left Behind, his signature domestic program, imposed higher standards on local school systems without providing enough money to meet them.

If Mr. Bush had wanted to make a mark on an issue on which Republicans and Democrats have long made common cause, he could have picked the environment. Christie Whitman, the former New Jersey governor chosen to run the Environmental Protection Agency, came from that bipartisan tradition. Yet she left after three years of futile struggle against the ideologues and industry lobbyists Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney had installed in every other important environmental post. The result has been a systematic weakening of regulatory safeguards across the entire spectrum of environmental issues, from clean air to wilderness protection.
*
The president who lost the popular vote got a real mandate on Sept. 11, 2001. With the grieving country united behind him, Mr. Bush had an unparalleled opportunity to ask for almost any shared sacrifice. The only limit was his imagination.
He asked for another tax cut and the war against Iraq.

The president's refusal to drop his tax-cutting agenda when the nation was gearing up for war is perhaps the most shocking example of his inability to change his priorities in the face of drastically altered circumstances. Mr. Bush did not just starve the government of the money it needed for his own education initiative or the Medicare drug bill. He also made tax cuts a higher priority than doing what was needed for America's security; 90 percent of the cargo unloaded every day in the nation's ports still goes uninspected.

Along with the invasion of Afghanistan, which had near unanimous international and domestic support, Mr. Bush and his attorney general put in place a strategy for a domestic antiterror war that had all the hallmarks of the administration's normal method of doing business: a Nixonian obsession with secrecy, disrespect for civil liberties and inept management.

American citizens were detained for long periods without access to lawyers or family members. Immigrants were rounded up and forced to languish in what the Justice Department's own inspector general found were often "unduly harsh" conditions. Men captured in the Afghan war were held incommunicado with no right to challenge their confinement. The Justice Department became a cheerleader for skirting decades-old international laws and treaties forbidding the brutal treatment of prisoners taken during wartime.

Mr. Ashcroft appeared on TV time and again to announce sensational arrests of people who turned out to be either innocent, harmless braggarts or extremely low-level sympathizers of Osama bin Laden who, while perhaps wishing to do something terrible, lacked the means. The Justice Department cannot claim one major successful terrorism prosecution, and has squandered much of the trust and patience the American people freely gave in 2001. Other nations, perceiving that the vast bulk of the prisoners held for so long at Guantánamo Bay came from the same line of ineffectual incompetents or unlucky innocents, and seeing the awful photographs from the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, were shocked that the nation that was supposed to be setting the world standard for human rights could behave that way.
*
Like the tax cuts, Mr. Bush's obsession with Saddam Hussein seemed closer to zealotry than mere policy. He sold the war to the American people, and to Congress, as an antiterrorist campaign even though Iraq had no known working relationship with Al Qaeda. His most frightening allegation was that Saddam Hussein was close to getting nuclear weapons. It was based on two pieces of evidence. One was a story about attempts to purchase critical materials from Niger, and it was the product of rumor and forgery. The other evidence, the purchase of aluminum tubes that the administration said were meant for a nuclear centrifuge, was concocted by one low-level analyst and had been thoroughly debunked by administration investigators and international vetting. Top members of the administration knew this, but the selling went on anyway. None of the president's chief advisers have ever been held accountable for their misrepresentations to the American people or for their mismanagement of the war that followed.

The international outrage over the American invasion is now joined by a sense of disdain for the incompetence of the effort. Moderate Arab leaders who have attempted to introduce a modicum of democracy are tainted by their connection to an administration that is now radioactive in the Muslim world. Heads of rogue states, including Iran and North Korea, have been taught decisively that the best protection against a pre-emptive American strike is to acquire nuclear weapons themselves.
*
We have specific fears about what would happen in a second Bush term, particularly regarding the Supreme Court. The record so far gives us plenty of cause for worry. Thanks to Mr. Bush, Jay Bybee, the author of an infamous Justice Department memo justifying the use of torture as an interrogation technique, is now a federal appeals court judge. Another Bush selection, J. Leon Holmes, a federal judge in Arkansas, has written that wives must be subordinate to their husbands and compared abortion rights activists to Nazis.
Mr. Bush remains enamored of tax cuts but he has never stopped Republican lawmakers from passing massive spending, even for projects he dislikes, like increased farm aid.

If he wins re-election, domestic and foreign financial markets will know the fiscal recklessness will continue. Along with record trade imbalances, that increases the chances of a financial crisis, like an uncontrolled decline of the dollar, and higher long-term interest rates.
The Bush White House has always given us the worst aspects of the American right without any of the advantages. We get the radical goals but not the efficient management. The Department of Education's handling of the No Child Left Behind Act has been heavily politicized and inept. The Department of Homeland Security is famous for its useless alerts and its inability to distribute antiterrorism aid according to actual threats. Without providing enough troops to properly secure Iraq, the administration has managed to so strain the resources of our armed forces that the nation is unprepared to respond to a crisis anywhere else in the world.
*
Mr. Kerry has the capacity to do far, far better. He has a willingness - sorely missing in Washington these days - to reach across the aisle. We are relieved that he is a strong defender of civil rights, that he would remove unnecessary restrictions on stem cell research and that he understands the concept of separation of church and state. We appreciate his sensible plan to provide health coverage for most of the people who currently do without.

Mr. Kerry has an aggressive and in some cases innovative package of ideas about energy, aimed at addressing global warming and oil dependency. He is a longtime advocate of deficit reduction. In the Senate, he worked with John McCain in restoring relations between the United States and Vietnam, and led investigations of the way the international financial system has been gamed to permit the laundering of drug and terror money. He has always understood that America's appropriate role in world affairs is as leader of a willing community of nations, not in my-way-or-the-highway domination.

We look back on the past four years with hearts nearly breaking, both for the lives unnecessarily lost and for the opportunities so casually wasted. Time and again, history invited George W. Bush to play a heroic role, and time and again he chose the wrong course. We believe that with John Kerry as president, the nation will do better.

Voting for president is a leap of faith. A candidate can explain his positions in minute detail and wind up governing with a hostile Congress that refuses to let him deliver. A disaster can upend the best-laid plans. All citizens can do is mix guesswork and hope, examining what the candidates have done in the past, their apparent priorities and their general character. It's on those three grounds that we enthusiastically endorse John Kerry for president.

[ItsStillARecipe]

im getting tired of this

[tyais]

New York Times endorsing democrat = about as surprising as one of the Olsen twins having an eating disorder

[Jason Tate]

New York Times endorsing democrat = about as surprising as one of the Olsen twins having an eating disorder
I'd let you go look up who they've endorsed in the past (not just for President, but for ALL political positions) but you obviously aren't going to listen ..

[Jason Tate]

im getting tired of this
Then why do you keep posting in the forums?

[Bucc4019]

im sick of politics in music shit.

[Jason Tate]

im sick of politics in music shit.
It's not going to change. It's something I believe in, this website is a cullmination of all sorts of things I feel passionate about .. this is one of them.

[ItsStillARecipe]

im sick of politics in music shit.

ditto, especially if its only gonna lean one way... and by lean one way i mean reeeeallllly far one way

[robdobi]

im sick of politics in music shit.

i'm sick of ignorance.

i went to register to vote today, and as i sit down, the guy before me says to the two 70 yr olds who are are volunteering to help out, "i will say this much about president bush, after 9/11 we had every right to go over and kick some iraqi ass"

lolz.

[PerfectMess]

i'm sick of ignorance.

i went to register to vote today, and as i sit down, the guy before me says to the two 70 yr olds who are are volunteering to help out, "i will say this much about president bush, after 9/11 we had every right to go over and kick some iraqi ass"

lolz.

ignorance like that just makes me sad. people like that are all over my campus.

[Punxatheart]

Yet the republicans will still say, "Geeee Wwwww an't scared of nobody" help defeat Bush and his ignorant supporters. Check out these sites for more info!

http://www.georgesoros.com/

http://www.moveon.org

http://www.actforvictory.org/

http://whitehousewest.com/ the last one is for the new Will Ferrell bush parodies

[formyownheart]

im actually just tired of all the bush-bashing, not that i support him in anyway just that it's played haha. not to sound retarded but like i never usually cross party lines, and i just see bush bashing all day at school then i come home and get some more then more on tv then more on the internets(for some reason i cant even stop doing it..hehe) the point is we just better hope things change, im tired of jokes about people's speech patterns, and the way they look like a baboon.

Kerry for 2004, just because im sick of the groin jokes

[Guy]

fuck white people

[JVAUGHAN]

The most liberal newspaper in the United States, endorsed John Kerry. How is this news?

[CT-Tim]

Yet the republicans will still say, "Geeee Wwwww an't scared of nobody" help defeat Bush and his ignorant supporters. Check out these sites for more info!

http://www.georgesoros.com/

http://www.moveon.org

http://www.actforvictory.org/

http://whitehousewest.com/ the last one is for the new Will Ferrell bush parodies

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there are just as many ignorant Democrats as there are ignorant Republicans, and there just as many pro-Bush sites. You're not really proving anything.

In fact, I'd say with all the retarded "Vote or Die" crap on MTV, there's most likely more ignorant Democrats then ever before. Encouraging people that know nothing other than the going price of crack to "Vote or Die" is like asking your 5 year old brother to help you do your Calculus homework.

[rememberrightno]

All of this is stupid. All you do is talk about how bad Bush is and your very narrow minded. Why dont you go back to September 11. If you had been 5 years old and both of your parents died and you will nevre see them again how would you feel. What would you have...nothing. All you would do is feel anger..Fighting this war serves a purpose because we are the most powerful country and we are defending it. And who gives a shit if Frecnh ***gets dont agree with us. Kids are left with nothing and you people bitch and say how wrong we are. If you had nothing I know you would have no problem going and fighting. Bush has been reckless but Kerry isnt any better if not worse. Kerry cant even fucking make up his mind on what he wants. He changes his mind all the god dam time so I dont understand how you could want him to lead you. Also have you not realized Kerry only appeals to teenagers who are voting for the first time and have no prior knowledge to this. MTV pushes Kerry and thats a channel kids watch. Almost anyone with knowledge isnt voting for Bush. But kids are stupid and are led by media and just listen to what MTV and there bands say. And you Tate make fun of a compilation because none of the bands are herd of...that doesnt justify nething.. There views and vote counts just as much as yours and as much as YEllowcards and Fat Mikes. Also on the tax break. If you worked your ass off for all your money do you really wanna give it to the crack heads downtown who steal everything and try to get drugs 24/7 and dont do anything...NO cuz thats fucking stupid. If you are going to debate pollitics dont be so narrow minded. Both parties suck but and nither are good to lead but saying Kerry would have not sent us into war is bullshit. Some people will life there only life without a mom and dad and you say thats right when you say the war is wrong. Had I lsot my parents in septmber 11 I would go over to Iraq and anyone else who doesnt like us and defend. FUck them they dontlike us and want to kill us. Then they laugh at people like you cuz you say we souldnt fight and then they will regroup and come back and hit us again. They dont give a shit about any of us so why should u care about them....QUIT BEING SO FUCKING LIBARAL!!

[freakishandazed]

QUIT BEING SO FUCKING LIBARAL!!

wow. i'm speechless. iraq =/= 9/11. pretty simple equation if you ask me.

9 out of 10 people did not read the article.

I enjoyed it. Thanks for the info Tate.

[elucy26]

OMG Kerry is going to save America just like Fall Out Boy saved punk rock.

Give me a break.

[Chevyman803]

Yet the republicans will still say, "Geeee Wwwww an't scared of nobody" help defeat Bush and his ignorant supporters. Check out these sites for more info!

http://www.georgesoros.com/

http://www.moveon.org

http://www.actforvictory.org/

http://whitehousewest.com/ the last one is for the new Will Ferrell bush parodies

liberal websites are reliable? No partison site is reliable for truths that need to be seen. Neither is a Liberal newspaper like the NY Times. Tate when are you going to post what the Washington Post puts out for their reasons for supporting Kerry? I'm sure it will be just full of poetic nuances.

[FoScholz]

Most liberal paper in america endorsing john kerry, newsworthy...don't think so

Liberal punk is scene

[rememberrightno]

wow. i'm speechless. iraq =/= 9/11. pretty simple equation if you ask me.

9 out of 10 people did not read the article.

I enjoyed it. Thanks for the info Tate.


Shows that you are narrow minded like every other fucking Kerry follower

[ohlookitspaul]

this website has pretty good articles on why supporting kerry is good

www.republicansforkerry04.org

[ohlookitspaul]

Shows that you are narrow minded like every other fucking Kerry follower
how is that being narrow minded? he's right, 9/11 does not equal iraq.

[ohlookitspaul]

All of this is stupid. All you do is talk about how bad Bush is and your very narrow minded. Why dont you go back to September 11. If you had been 5 years old and both of your parents died and you will nevre see them again how would you feel. What would you have...nothing. All you would do is feel anger..Fighting this war serves a purpose because we are the most powerful country and we are defending it. And who gives a shit if Frecnh ***gets dont agree with us. Kids are left with nothing and you people bitch and say how wrong we are. If you had nothing I know you would have no problem going and fighting. Bush has been reckless but Kerry isnt any better if not worse. Kerry cant even fucking make up his mind on what he wants. He changes his mind all the god dam time so I dont understand how you could want him to lead you. Also have you not realized Kerry only appeals to teenagers who are voting for the first time and have no prior knowledge to this. MTV pushes Kerry and thats a channel kids watch. Almost anyone with knowledge isnt voting for Bush. But kids are stupid and are led by media and just listen to what MTV and there bands say. And you Tate make fun of a compilation because none of the bands are herd of...that doesnt justify nething.. There views and vote counts just as much as yours and as much as YEllowcards and Fat Mikes. Also on the tax break. If you worked your ass off for all your money do you really wanna give it to the crack heads downtown who steal everything and try to get drugs 24/7 and dont do anything...NO cuz thats fucking stupid. If you are going to debate pollitics dont be so narrow minded. Both parties suck but and nither are good to lead but saying Kerry would have not sent us into war is bullshit. Some people will life there only life without a mom and dad and you say thats right when you say the war is wrong. Had I lsot my parents in septmber 11 I would go over to Iraq and anyone else who doesnt like us and defend. FUck them they dontlike us and want to kill us. Then they laugh at people like you cuz you say we souldnt fight and then they will regroup and come back and hit us again. They dont give a shit about any of us so why should u care about them....QUIT BEING SO FUCKING LIBARAL!!

a. give me examples of "kerry changing his mind all the time"

b. giving it to crack heads downtown? what the fuck is wrong with you? could you be more ignorant and stereotypical?

c. kerry only appeals to teenagers? i guess that explains why, for example, labor unions, lots of vietnam vets and like the article says, the new york times is supporting him.

[rememberrightno]

how is that being narrow minded? he's right, 9/11 does not equal iraq.

Do you think they wouldnt hesitate to kill you...they might not have been behind 9/11 but they still dont give a shit about you and would kill you in a heartbeat

[swrilltearuaprt]

OMG Kerry is going to save America just like Fall Out Boy saved punk rock.

Give me a break.

haha
that is hysterical, regardless of the fact that I voted for Kerry

[tyais]

I'd let you go look up who they've endorsed in the past (not just for President, but for ALL political positions) but you obviously aren't going to listen ..


Oooh... sharp rhetoric you got there. I did enjoy the twist you put in asking that I look up ALL political positions. Nice red herring since we're talking about the Presidential endorsements and not any other endorsements. Presidential seat much different than any in the house or senate.

Alas, that aside...

2004 - Democrat Endorsement
2000 - Democrat Endorsement
1996 - Democrat Endorsement
1992 - Democrat Endorsement
1988 - Unable to locate an endorsement
1984 - Democrat Endorsement
1980 - Democrat Endorsement
1976 - Unable to locate an endorsement
1972 - Democrat Endorsement
1968 - Democrat Endorsement
1964 - Democrat Endorsement

So in the past 40 years, or 10 elections, The New York Times has endorsed a Democrat for President at least 8 times, and I haven't been able to locate anything indicating either way on the '88 and '76 elections.

Really Tate, even you should know the Times is Democrat and the Post is Republican...

[ohlookitspaul]

Do you think they wouldnt hesitate to kill you...they might not have been behind 9/11 but they still dont give a shit about you and would kill you in a heartbeat
holy shit. just because they want to kill us doesnt mean we can kill them. are you attila the hun or something? how is that justification for killing them?

[Ratherbedead22]

All of this is stupid. All you do is talk about how bad Bush is and your very narrow minded. Why dont you go back to September 11. If you had been 5 years old and both of your parents died and you will nevre see them again how would you feel. What would you have...nothing. All you would do is feel anger..Fighting this war serves a purpose because we are the most powerful country and we are defending it. And who gives a shit if Frecnh ***gets dont agree with us. Kids are left with nothing and you people bitch and say how wrong we are. If you had nothing I know you would have no problem going and fighting. Bush has been reckless but Kerry isnt any better if not worse. Kerry cant even fucking make up his mind on what he wants. He changes his mind all the god dam time so I dont understand how you could want him to lead you. Also have you not realized Kerry only appeals to teenagers who are voting for the first time and have no prior knowledge to this. MTV pushes Kerry and thats a channel kids watch. Almost anyone with knowledge isnt voting for Bush. But kids are stupid and are led by media and just listen to what MTV and there bands say. And you Tate make fun of a compilation because none of the bands are herd of...that doesnt justify nething.. There views and vote counts just as much as yours and as much as YEllowcards and Fat Mikes. Also on the tax break. If you worked your ass off for all your money do you really wanna give it to the crack heads downtown who steal everything and try to get drugs 24/7 and dont do anything...NO cuz thats fucking stupid. If you are going to debate pollitics dont be so narrow minded. Both parties suck but and nither are good to lead but saying Kerry would have not sent us into war is bullshit. Some people will life there only life without a mom and dad and you say thats right when you say the war is wrong. Had I lsot my parents in septmber 11 I would go over to Iraq and anyone else who doesnt like us and defend. FUck them they dontlike us and want to kill us. Then they laugh at people like you cuz you say we souldnt fight and then they will regroup and come back and hit us again. They dont give a shit about any of us so why should u care about them....QUIT BEING SO FUCKING LIBARAL!!

oh man. i really need to stop being so LIBARAL.

[rememberrightno]

holy shit. just because they want to kill us doesnt mean we can kill them. are you attila the hun or something? how is that justification for killing them?

It doesnt justify killing them....im not saying go over there and kill for fun. But had I lost someone important to me I would have been pretty pissd...plus thats not even the point of my argument. The point is you live here and you should support your country reguardless...if its so fucking bad to live here then fucking move...go over there and live where they liev and see how long you would last. Since no one can be happy here maybe they shoud leave and go to other countries

[thedood]

If you are sick of this then do Canada and the rest of the world a favour, vote for John Kerry. Canada does not want you all running up here when Bush brings back the draft. Kerry will help bring your healthcare to our level, he agrees in stem cell research, and will not Start a war for profit while putting your country in debt. If Bush is re-elected its on your vote, so help the "free world" that Americans are going to vote a leader for.

PS if America is voting for a leader of the free world, the free world should get a vote. Tate keep posting this stuff, it is far more interesting than hearing about how sum 41 knows simple plan eats donkey balls. Thanks Tate.

[Flags of Dawn]

"Lambert Field" (in relation to the where the Green Bay Packers play)

"David Or-tez" (the hero of the Boston Red Sox)

no, these arent bushisms....but quotes from John Kerry himself. Theres more, but they were said in Wisconsin in relation to things in Wisconsin, so it wouldnt make sense to many. Notice how you never hear about these, especially since hes Mr. Sportsman himself.

[rememberrightno]

If you are sick of this then do Canada and the rest of the world a favour, vote for John Kerry. Canada does not want you all running up here when Bush brings back the draft. Kerry will help bring your healthcare to our level, he agrees in stem cell research, and will not Start a war for profit while putting your country in debt. If Bush is re-elected its on your vote, so help the "free world" that Americans are going to vote a leader for.

PS if America is voting for a leader of the free world, the free world should get a vote. Tate keep posting this stuff, it is far more interesting than hearing about how sum 41 knows simple plan eats donkey balls. Thanks Tate.

Your a fucking idiot cuz Kerry is more likely to bring back the draft then Bush his.

[ohlookitspaul]

It doesnt justify killing them....im not saying go over there and kill for fun. But had I lost someone important to me I would have been pretty pissd...plus thats not even the point of my argument. The point is you live here and you should support your country reguardless...if its so fucking bad to live here then fucking move...go over there and live where they liev and see how long you would last. Since no one can be happy here maybe they shoud leave and go to other countries

blind allegiance to your country is not patriotism, it's ignorance.

move if we don't like it? jesus christ then, if you don't like this shit on AP, why don't you not visit it?

[ohlookitspaul]

Your a fucking idiot cuz Kerry is more likely to bring back the draft then Bush his.
prove it

[wakepunk]

Do you think they wouldnt hesitate to kill you...they might not have been behind 9/11 but they still dont give a shit about you and would kill you in a heartbeat

There are plenty of other countries out there who wouldn't hesitate to kill us. Does that mean we should invade them and launch a "preemptive strike" just because they don't like us?

[tyais]

I'd let you go look up who they've endorsed in the past (not just for President, but for ALL political positions) but you obviously aren't going to listen ..

OH! And please don't be condescending to me when you have no idea who in the hell I am or how actively involved in politics I am. Seriously, that's just prickish.

As a side note, unlike you, I feel people are allowed to have an opinion on politics without completely attacking them. <Rest of my message isn't directed at Tate...< I already voted and I can tell you this much - it sure as hell wasn't for Kerry or Bush. (Waste of a vote? STFU! Learn about election rules in Arizona and how third parties automatically receive a place on a ballot. And I'd rather vote my conscience and be able to complain about either of the monkeys that take office, then have to admit to voting for John "The Tool" Kerry or George "Leader is the last description I should be given" Bush.)

[tyais]

If you are sick of this then do Canada and the rest of the world a favour, vote for John Kerry. Canada does not want you all running up here when Bush brings back the draft.

You do know that it was Democrats who brought the idea of a draft up in the first place, right? Those are John Kerry's buddies who put it into legislation.

[wakepunk]

You do know that it was Democrats who brought the idea of a draft up in the first place, right? Those are John Kerry's buddies who put it into legislation.

Republicans keep pushing for the draft to be brought back, so Democrats write up proposals and say, "Here you go, let's all sign this, and then we can send your kids to fight too." Then Republican's realize it's not such a great idea, and that's why the proposal gets turned down.

It's happened more than once since Bush took office too.

[abbreviation]

fuck white people
haha....yes.

[thedood]

Man, the military is desperate for recruits...i didnt mean to come off like a prick but George Bush (like alot of politicians) is looking out for number 1.
He's a "war president" right? All I'm saying is Bush is not a right choice, maybe Kerry isn't either but...further down the list is Ralph Nader>? probably not

[Ratherbedead22]

people need to stop complaining about how tate posts pro-kerry stuff on HIS website. if you seriously disagree with the endorsement or any other stuff he posts, just post a serious rebuttal that intelligently shows your view. granted there are liberals who shout fuck bush and what not, but there is no need to just insult liberals as response to Tate's post. Maturity has been lost amongst the public and arguments of politics just seem to be shouting matches.

and have you EVER in your life met a liberal (and, being one, i know a lot of them) who is the kind described by conservatives? the one who hates God, openly supports communism, racism and anti-semitism? everyone i ever met who was even remotely racist was a conservative. every single one. i don't think conservatives are racists, its just that on the fringe of the conservative platform are the racists. just like at the fringe of the liberal platform are the communist atheists who support the violent overthrow of our government. fact is, basically any kid you meet who supports communism is an idiotic 13 year old who bought a che shirt at a hot topic. they don't represent liberals any more than the grand dragon represents conservatives.


but anyway, i enjoy the posts. i just wish people were a little more civil about it.

[rememberrightno]

Im not saying the draft is right nor do I want it to come back. but jesus are you guys all a bunch of fucking pussies? your that scared of the draft? You sound like the french

[wakepunk]

Im not saying the draft is right nor do I want it to come back. but jesus are you guys all a bunch of fucking pussies? your that scared of the draft? You sound like the french

You could have had a vaild argument there, but then you decided to call everyone who doesn't want to fight for something they don't believe in pussies and compare them to the French...very mature...

[corporeal]

posts about politics in the months leading up to the election: maybe 10 republician-friendly replies in 100+ comments.

posts about politics in the weeks leading up to the election: leaning more towards 50/50.

why the change? wear out that Rock Against Bush cd already? politics and punk rock, combining the two worst trends known to american culture. ROCK ON!

[ohlookitspaul]

Im not saying the draft is right nor do I want it to come back. but jesus are you guys all a bunch of fucking pussies? your that scared of the draft? You sound like the french
if you're that gung-ho, then go sign up and go to iraq.

[ohlookitspaul]

posts about politics in the months leading up to the election: maybe 10 republician-friendly replies in 100+ comments.

posts about politics in the weeks leading up to the election: leaning more towards 50/50.

why the change? wear out that Rock Against Bush cd already? politics and punk rock, combining the two worst trends known to american culture. ROCK ON!
did you just call politics a trend? are you serious?

[Flags of Dawn]

theres not going to be a fucking draft. enough of who has wanted it and who has tried to get it, its not going to happen. end of argument.

[corporeal]

did you just call politics a trend? are you serious?

it's treated like one.

[wakepunk]

theres not going to be a fucking draft. enough of who has wanted it and who has tried to get it, its not going to happen. end of argument.

The Pentagon says we don't have enough troops, Paul Bremmer says we don't have enough troops, all of the head generals over in Iraq say they don't have enough troops...either Bush is waiting until after he's secured his spot for 4 more years to make the announcement, or he's continuing his trend of not listening to anyone.

[tyais]

Republicans keep pushing for the draft to be brought back, so Democrats write up proposals and say, "Here you go, let's all sign this, and then we can send your kids to fight too." Then Republican's realize it's not such a great idea, and that's why the proposal gets turned down.

It's happened more than once since Bush took office too.

Really, what the hell are you talking about? The only talk of the draft has come after two democrats put a bill before Congress trying to get the draft re-instated. All talk of the draft has come purely from a Democratic motion. You'll find VERY few people who think the draft is even feasible.

[lethbridge]

Thank you Jason and Tyais. I rarely agree with what Jason posts on here, or supports, but at least he's aware, as Tyais. We should appreciate the opportunity we have to participate in the election, and like Tyais suggested, vote our conscience.
Take time to learn for yourselves. Don't think all the bashing either way is necessary, but I guess at the very least, it gets the mind thinking.
Keep posting things like this Jason, think it's good for everyone.

[wakepunk]

Really, what the hell are you talking about? The only talk of the draft has come after two democrats put a bill before Congress trying to get the draft re-instated. All talk of the draft has come purely from a Democratic motion. You'll find VERY few people who think the draft is even feasible.

No, it's come up more than once, this is the only time it's really gotten any attention. Yes, it was 2 Democrats who proposed the bill, but they did it to shut up the Republicans who continue to call for one.

[NanoSR]

Although I strongly disagree with the war in Iraq, I'm a Kerry nay-sayer. If he wins the election, my family gets screwed over. My dad will lose his job as a doctor cuz thats what democrats do best, screw doctors over. His job is hard enough and expensive as it is with today's society making his job impossible. So for the sake of still leading a prosperous life, I'll have to hand my vote to bush. As much as it sucks, we can't really base our vote on what's best for everyone if you're hurting yourself in the mix of doing it. It kinda comes down to how if affects you the most.

my 2 cents

[HeArTBroKe_]

Whats sad is...we are all becoming divided around this election. Sometimes is almost as if those who claim to be republicans are going to disagree with plans of the democrats, and vice versa SOLELY because they claim that position..even if they don't REALLY agree with it. This isn't the way it is supposed to be...every time i see a debate or a discussion about who should be elected you can see aggression and violence in people simply because they don't agree with each other on ideas and plans. We should all agree to disagree, vote accordingly, and allow the best candidate to win..all this angst is wasted and rediculous.

I sat with my friend today during a democratic and republican party debate we were holding in the theater...i would clap at some issues and he would clap at his own...but when i told him that i believed something that he didn't he held anger towards me and hasn't talked to me since..is this right?
I wish some people would just grow up...

[70x7]

No, it's come up more than once, this is the only time it's really gotten any attention. Yes, it was 2 Democrats who proposed the bill, but they did it to shut up the Republicans who continue to call for one.

what the fuck ever, where's the proof

The sad thing is that a lot of people are just going to vote for whoever promises them the most money.

[tyais]

No, it's come up more than once, this is the only time it's really gotten any attention. Yes, it was 2 Democrats who proposed the bill, but they did it to shut up the Republicans who continue to call for one.


*sigh* No, it hasn't and no they didn't.

Congressman McDermott commented that "I believe that if those who are pushing for war knew that their children might be required to share the burden of that war, there might be a greater willingness to work toward peace and a diplomatic solution. If, despite our best efforts, we end up in armed conflict, then fairness dictates that the sons and daughters of all classes participate."

He co-sponsored the bill.

Don't lie to people and say that it was Republicans pushing for it and that Democrats called them out on it. Democrats wanted it to be brought up so people would be like, "Holy crap. The draft... I don't want to have to deal with this, I want to end this war as soon as possible." They were calling the Republican party out on the fact that they knew that the war wouldn't get that kind of support.

/edit/ source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223933/posts

[tyais]

No, it's come up more than once, this is the only time it's really gotten any attention. Yes, it was 2 Democrats who proposed the bill, but they did it to shut up the Republicans who continue to call for one.

Oh yeah, and the only effing people who voted for the draft to come back.... Democrats.

[MaybeOneDay]

When you learn to spell LIBERAL right...





...I still will not listen to you.

[wakepunk]

*sigh* No, it hasn't and no they didn't.

Congressman McDermott commented that "I believe that if those who are pushing for war knew that their children might be required to share the burden of that war, there might be a greater willingness to work toward peace and a diplomatic solution. If, despite our best efforts, we end up in armed conflict, then fairness dictates that the sons and daughters of all classes participate."

He co-sponsored the bill.

Don't lie to people and say that it was Republicans pushing for it and that Democrats called them out on it. Democrats wanted it to be brought up so people would be like, "Holy crap. The draft... I don't want to have to deal with this, I want to end this war as soon as possible." They were calling the Republican party out on the fact that they knew that the war wouldn't get that kind of support.

/edit/ source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223933/posts

We discussed it in my Government class earlier this year, so yes, it has come up before. Also, what McDermott said was right - they proposed it because they wanted to show everyone (namely the Republicans who have been calling for it) just how serious they were. I'm not trying to lay the blame on the Republicans who have been pushing for it, I'm just saying that they've been pushing for it more.

[Dan08]

i'm kinda wondering if bush had just said saddam is dangerous and he needs to be taken out...would u have accepted that?
are a lot of americans just bent out of shape because he said saddam had wmd when he supposedly didnt

[wakepunk]

Oh yeah, and the only effing people who voted for the draft to come back.... Democrats.

Yes, 2 of them - the 2 who proposed the bill in the first place, to show that they weren't shying away from from it (plus they knew it wouldn't pass anyway).

[elucy26]

Hey....umm....

Ever think that the people who signed up for the armed forces knew there was a chance they might die?

[tyais]

We discussed it in my Government class earlier this year, so yes, it has come up before. Also, what McDermott said was right - they proposed it because they wanted to show everyone (namely the Republicans who have been calling for it) just how serious they were. I'm not trying to lay the blame on the Republicans who have been pushing for it, I'm just saying that they've been pushing for it more.

Wow... I'm impressed that you consider what you've talked about in Government a definitive source.... and I'm even more impressed that you guys were so behind. This bill was drafted and presented in 2003. Glad you talked about it earlier this year, but you were a little late.

And no, Republicans haven't been pushing for it! How many damn times I have to repeat this. There isn't a single Republican who voted for the legislation to go through. There wasn't a single Republican behind the drafting of the Bill. There hasn't been a single noteworthy Republican who has spoken out and said the draft should be re-instated. Stop making crap up or spewing crap that some idiot fed you.

/edit/: Why I feel so powerful about this - this is politicing at its worst. This whole draft thing bugs the hell out of me because its pure BS and is meant only to gather support or raise defiance of different politicians and groups.

[wakepunk]

i'm kinda wondering if bush had just said saddam is dangerous and he needs to be taken out...would u have accepted that?
are a lot of americans just bent out of shape because he said saddam had wmd when he supposedly didnt

Well...since Bush said that he knew exactly where the WMD's were and he was positive Saddam had them, and since that was the main basis for war...yeah, I'm kinda upset about it...

[rememberrightno]

Whats sad is...we are all becoming divided around this election. Sometimes is almost as if those who claim to be republicans are going to disagree with plans of the democrats, and vice versa SOLELY because they claim that position..even if they don't REALLY agree with it. This isn't the way it is supposed to be...every time i see a debate or a discussion about who should be elected you can see aggression and violence in people simply because they don't agree with each other on ideas and plans. We should all agree to disagree, vote accordingly, and allow the best candidate to win..all this angst is wasted and rediculous.

I sat with my friend today during a democratic and republican party debate we were holding in the theater...i would clap at some issues and he would clap at his own...but when i told him that i believed something that he didn't he held anger towards me and hasn't talked to me since..is this right?
I wish some people would just grow up...

This is good. Its the truth I strongly disagree with the democrats but now theres just pure hate between us. We do all come from the same place and wether or not we agree now shouldnt change the way we act towards other peoples opinions....some one likes Good Charlotte and so people make fun of them...some one likes bush here and he gets made fun of...ither way thats not all there is to them...Most of you would all be friends with each other if you really knew each other...all this pollitical shit has pushed us apart when we really are all the same. Just kids with a love for music. I really am sick of this and I apoligize to the statements I made earlyer....Bush is beter for some people just like Kerry is better for others...thats why this election will be so close but all we can do is wait and see what happens but until then lets move on...

[wakepunk]

Wow... I'm impressed that you consider what you've talked about in Government a definitive source.... and I'm even more impressed that you guys were so behind. This bill was drafted and presented in 2003. Glad you talked about it earlier this year, but you were a little late.

And no, Republicans haven't been pushing for it! How many damn times I have to repeat this. There isn't a single Republican who voted for the legislation to go through. There wasn't a single Republican behind the drafting of the Bill. There hasn't been a single noteworthy Republican who has spoken out and said the draft should be re-instated. Stop making crap up or spewing crap that some idiot fed you.

It was drafted and presented in 2003? So it has come up before? Oh, ok...thanks for backing me up on that one...

Well you're right, no Republican voted for it...because they didn't want to run the risk of sending their kid over to fight. Also, it's true they haven't spoken out about how they want the draft back...that wouldn't be a good way to get re-election votes, would it?

[bromuda]

There is no doubt it is tough reading such a hugely left-sided article. There are so many disadvantages that our country will face if Kerry is elected. And love it if you guys might take a read. I honestly would love to state some facts but I may get a little excited

Kerry's team keeps talking about how Bush has destroyed our economy. Bush inherited an economy doomed for a recession after Clinton took the taxes for the top bracket from 31% to 38.6%(in 1993) (note: Reagan years: two tax brackets 14% and 28%) and the huge decline after the tech-boom of the late 90's. The horrible disaster that took place on that day in September did nothing to boost the morale of American investors and other countries investing in our markets. The risk factor was up and we were falling into a recession. Bush's tax breaks for the wealthy are TOTALLY misinterpreted. The top 1% earn 16% but pay 33% of Federal income taxes. We have an EXTREMELY progressive tax code in our country. Many of those people in the top 1% who report their taxes as Chapter-S Corp. or LLC's (these are all small business owners). All the owners' income goes into that Chapter-S Corp., and if you disproportiantely tax them, they can't invest in their business. With that money, that they would and should receive, they can hire more workers, invest in machinery, etc. Kerry wants a more progressive tax plan to redristribute this income and take it a FROM THE MOST PRODUCTIVE PEOPLE. 40% OF OUR POPULATION PAYS NO INCOME TAX. THE BOTTOM 50% PAY 3.6% OF TOTAL TAXES. Bush lowered the tax from 38% to 35% for that top tax bracket. Which was to help out THOSE people who are producing and increasing the capital for our country, why would we want to hurt them by taking that money away from them?????

The war that Bush led us into was and is a war that I believe we need to fight. I know those who are over there and those that have lost family over there, my brother is on his way as well. Everyone that I know that MADE THE DECISION to join the Marines, Navy, etc. to fight in this war wants to be over there and wants to win. We live in a nation that has the financial position and THE WILL TO FIGHT FOR FREEDOM to wage war against these terrorists. We've always lived in freedom and unfortunately we have an eliist group in our country that feels it has the right to say which nations have the right to be free. We as free people should WANT everyone in the world to have the opportunity we have and fight for that.

I hope everyone votes their passion, my absentee ballot is intransit to the ballot office!!!

[tyais]

Well...since Bush said that he knew exactly where the WMD's were and he was positive Saddam had them, and since that was the main basis for war...yeah, I'm kinda upset about it...


REALLY?!?!? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU???!!?! STOP POSTING! Give me a quote where Bush said he knew exactly where the weapons were. He said there was credible intelligence stating that Iraq posed an imminent threat to the US (something I somewhat disagree with, but that gets down to technicalities and what not...) and that Saddam was manufacturing Weapons of Mass Destruction.


STOP MAKING CRAP UP!

[projectmayhem16]

all great empires will one day crumble and I fear that with Bush as our leader that we too will fall apart, that is all.

[tyais]

It was drafted and presented in 2003? So it has come up before? Oh, ok...thanks for backing me up on that one...

Well you're right, no Republican voted for it...because they didn't want to run the risk of sending their kid over to fight. Also, it's true they haven't spoken out about how they want the draft back...that wouldn't be a good way to get re-election votes, would it?

It's come up once and it's been talked about since then. To say its come up multiple times would incinuate its been brought before Congress multiple times. It's been brought up by idiot liberal pundits who want to use it as a scare tactic in order to get Republicans out of office because they support the war more than Democrats.

And you admit no Republicans have spoken out about it... and yet you know that Republicans are the ones who really want it? Really, I'd be interested to know which Republican politicans confided in you this information that they really want the draft even though all their actions show they don't.

[Cottage Cheese]

How is it justified that we invade Iraq with suspicion of them having WMDs, but other countries aren't allowed to invade the U.S., even though we make known we have endless supplies of WMDs and nukes and are ready to use them against anyone at any moment???

[wakepunk]

REALLY?!?!? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU???!!?! STOP POSTING! Give me a quote where Bush said he knew exactly where the weapons were. He said there was credible intelligence stating that Iraq posed an imminent threat to the US (something I somewhat disagree with, but that gets down to technicalities and what not...) and that Saddam was manufacturing Weapons of Mass Destruction.


STOP MAKING CRAP UP!


Ok, I'm sorry, it wasn't Bush...it was Rumsfeld...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1109-11.htm

On March 30, 11 days into the war, Rumsfeld said in an ABC News interview when asked about WMDs: "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

[tyais]

Good job citing something, but you credited to the wrong person and exaggerated his claim originally. Credibility = lost.

[isitmeisittrue]

i really hate all this arguing. bush sucks. kerry sucks. you cant win in this election. but, interesting news piece i found out today: all the draft legislation that was proposed (and immediately shot down) was proposed by DEMOCRATS. im gonna guess it was not to actually start a draft, but to increase peoples hate of bush by making it seem like bush was putting out this legislation (i am a democrat, but i just thought that was interesting)

[isitmeisittrue]

sorry, i had to go to bed but i really wanted 200 posts lol...

[wakepunk]

Good job citing something, but you credited to the wrong person and exaggerated his claim originally. Credibility = lost.

Eh, I can live with that...at least I proved you wrong.

[xLOCUST REIGNx]

both suck.

[MistaChang]

All of this is stupid. All you do is talk about how bad Bush is and your very narrow minded. Why dont you go back to September 11. If you had been 5 years old and both of your parents died and you will nevre see them again how would you feel. What would you have...nothing. All you would do is feel anger..Fighting this war serves a purpose because we are the most powerful country and we are defending it. And who gives a shit if Frecnh ***gets dont agree with us. Kids are left with nothing and you people bitch and say how wrong we are. If you had nothing I know you would have no problem going and fighting. Bush has been reckless but Kerry isnt any better if not worse. Kerry cant even fucking make up his mind on what he wants. He changes his mind all the god dam time so I dont understand how you could want him to lead you. Also have you not realized Kerry only appeals to teenagers who are voting for the first time and have no prior knowledge to this. MTV pushes Kerry and thats a channel kids watch. Almost anyone with knowledge isnt voting for Bush. But kids are stupid and are led by media and just listen to what MTV and there bands say. And you Tate make fun of a compilation because none of the bands are herd of...that doesnt justify nething.. There views and vote counts just as much as yours and as much as YEllowcards and Fat Mikes. Also on the tax break. If you worked your ass off for all your money do you really wanna give it to the crack heads downtown who steal everything and try to get drugs 24/7 and dont do anything...NO cuz thats fucking stupid. If you are going to debate pollitics dont be so narrow minded. Both parties suck but and nither are good to lead but saying Kerry would have not sent us into war is bullshit. Some people will life there only life without a mom and dad and you say thats right when you say the war is wrong. Had I lsot my parents in septmber 11 I would go over to Iraq and anyone else who doesnt like us and defend. FUck them they dontlike us and want to kill us. Then they laugh at people like you cuz you say we souldnt fight and then they will regroup and come back and hit us again. They dont give a shit about any of us so why should u care about them....QUIT BEING SO FUCKING LIBARAL!!

I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck you just said.

[tyais]

Eh, I can live with that...at least I proved you wrong.

Right. And you slept with my sister too, right?

You claimed Republicans are the ones who want the draft. I've given evidence showing no Republican has backed the draft and that the only people to have back the draft are Democrats.

You claimed the draft has been brought up multiple times. I've said the draft has been brought up once and talked about by the media and liberals more than once.

You said Bush claimed to know exactly where WMDs were. You admitted to being wrong by giving a quote showing it was someone else who said it and said they knew the area they were in not exactly where they were.

[supadupa003]

Where do we get with all this arguing? Do you guys ever feel better after thinking you just *owned* a person with stunning evidence you just found? Beliefs are not meant to be attacked. This is the first election I'm actually involved in...and what turns me off the most about it all is the hate. Here we are voting for leadership for the next four years in our country and all we can think about is how bad our lives will be if the other will be elected. We will all survive no matter what happens this election. Wouldn't it be a little more mature that, instead of attacking someone else's vote or belief, you go to the booth on election day and contribute to your belief. Let the election itself speak for your belief. I'm afraid that this election has created so much tension and hate that even after this is over...it won't be. All the "I hate Kerry" people will still hate Kerry if he's elected and all of the "I hate Bush" people will still hate Bush if he's elected. This hate that has fueled between two parties is not something that will just go away on election day. I remember the event of 9/11 as a reminder of why we have to unite together. Instead I just see friendships and relationships fall apart between groups of people because of their one belief. Seriously, if you are really that tired of the liberal views on this webpage, the internet has plenty of webpages contributing towards the conservative movement. That's the best part of democracy, we get to choose what we read and believe in. Just don't hate someone you don't even know because of their view of politics.

P.S. I'm not a tree hugger.

[smallbutfeisty]

The most liberal newspaper in the United States, endorsed John Kerry. How is this news?

I couldn't agree more. I also thought it was interesting how the entire article seemed to focus more on President Bush's inadequacies than it did on Kerry's strong points. Perhaps this is because Kerry either has no strong points or cannot keep whatever points he has straight long enough for them to be regarded as strong or weak. I will not be voting for an inconsistent flip-flopper who cannot even keep his promises straight in one debate.

[foreverfallen]

People are so stupid it makes me sad. Could you imagine if we had a real democracy? Scary.

[tyais]

Where do we get with all this arguing? Do you guys ever feel better after thinking you just *owned* a person with stunning evidence you just found? Beliefs are not meant to be attacked. This is the first election I'm actually involved in...and what turns me off the most about it all is the hate.

I agree with you. But, in my defense, I am going by things that have ACTUALLY occured. I hate both big parties with a passion. Big party politics are screwing us over. But I will NOT stand for people who feed false information regarding actual events.

[intoyourarms]

Its just good to see that kids our age are finally starting to care about politics. Now maybe the politicians will respect our opinion when it comes to america's issues. I don't care who you're voting for but four years ago I guarantee you not this many people in our demographic were worried about who was leading the country. Now posts on politics fuel heated debates between us. About fucking time.

[AnonomusVsCA]

All of this is stupid. All you do is talk about how bad Bush is and your very narrow minded. Why dont you go back to September 11. If you had been 5 years old and both of your parents died and you will nevre see them again how would you feel. What would you have...nothing. All you would do is feel anger..Fighting this war serves a purpose because we are the most powerful country and we are defending it. And who gives a shit if Frecnh ***gets dont agree with us. Kids are left with nothing and you people bitch and say how wrong we are. If you had nothing I know you would have no problem going and fighting. Bush has been reckless but Kerry isnt any better if not worse. Kerry cant even fucking make up his mind on what he wants. He changes his mind all the god dam time so I dont understand how you could want him to lead you. Also have you not realized Kerry only appeals to teenagers who are voting for the first time and have no prior knowledge to this. MTV pushes Kerry and thats a channel kids watch. Almost anyone with knowledge isnt voting for Bush. But kids are stupid and are led by media and just listen to what MTV and there bands say. And you Tate make fun of a compilation because none of the bands are herd of...that doesnt justify nething.. There views and vote counts just as much as yours and as much as YEllowcards and Fat Mikes. Also on the tax break. If you worked your ass off for all your money do you really wanna give it to the crack heads downtown who steal everything and try to get drugs 24/7 and dont do anything...NO cuz thats fucking stupid. If you are going to debate pollitics dont be so narrow minded. Both parties suck but and nither are good to lead but saying Kerry would have not sent us into war is bullshit. Some people will life there only life without a mom and dad and you say thats right when you say the war is wrong. Had I lsot my parents in septmber 11 I would go over to Iraq and anyone else who doesnt like us and defend. FUck them they dontlike us and want to kill us. Then they laugh at people like you cuz you say we souldnt fight and then they will regroup and come back and hit us again. They dont give a shit about any of us so why should u care about them....QUIT BEING SO FUCKING LIBARAL!!

you are ignorant. go listen to toby keith and stick a boot in osama or saddam's ass, but let kim jung il do his thing, he's the one who will fuck us.

[wakepunk]

Right. And you slept with my sister too, right?

Damn snitch...we promised to keep it between us...

[bromuda]

People are so stupid it makes me sad. Could you imagine if we had a real democracy? Scary.

Their is a lot of ignorance, way too much, which is really confusing because any information we want to find is at our fingertips, it just sucks that it has to be spun this way and that. It drives me crazy reading articles like this, realizing that many people read this and base their political opinions on it. I just wish everyone would steer clear The New York Times and Fox News alike, it's really beginning to make me sick. There needs to be some serious changes sometime soon, the media has gone out of fucking control with this election.

[splitsecond]

Oooh... sharp rhetoric you got there. I did enjoy the twist you put in asking that I look up ALL political positions. Nice red herring since we're talking about the Presidential endorsements and not any other endorsements. Presidential seat much different than any in the house or senate.

Alas, that aside...

2004 - Democrat Endorsement
2000 - Democrat Endorsement
1996 - Democrat Endorsement
1992 - Democrat Endorsement
1988 - Unable to locate an endorsement
1984 - Democrat Endorsement
1980 - Democrat Endorsement
1976 - Unable to locate an endorsement
1972 - Democrat Endorsement
1968 - Democrat Endorsement
1964 - Democrat Endorsement

So in the past 40 years, or 10 elections, The New York Times has endorsed a Democrat for President at least 8 times, and I haven't been able to locate anything indicating either way on the '88 and '76 elections.

Really Tate, even you should know the Times is Democrat and the Post is Republican...


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh SNAP!



Not every band is anti-Bush. Just look on the Back of Underoath's guitars and you will see what I mean.

[CT-Tim]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh SNAP!



Not every band is anti-Bush. Just look on the Back of Underoath's guitars and you will see what I mean.


;) Rock on Underoath.

And to the guy arguing with tyais... tyais is completely above your intelligence level, just give up. tyais knows his stuff, just admit you're wrong and move along.

[intoyourarms]

Read articles that are published outside of the United States and aren't so biased. Almost every form of media produced in the United States about this election contains bias. Read the BBC or something and get the real facts. Or if you're a stoner its a pretty easy decision ... http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=278&aid=4

[takingbackNJ]

October 17, 2004

John Kerry for President

Senator John Kerry goes toward the election with a base that is built more on opposition to George W. Bush than loyalty to his own candidacy. But over the last year we have come to know Mr. Kerry as more than just an alternative to the status quo. We like what we've seen. He has qualities that could be the basis for a great chief executive, not just a modest improvement on the incumbent.
We have been impressed with Mr. Kerry's wide knowledge and clear thinking - something that became more apparent once he was reined in by that two-minute debate light. He is blessedly willing to re-evaluate decisions when conditions change. And while Mr. Kerry's service in Vietnam was first over-promoted and then over-pilloried, his entire life has been devoted to public service, from the war to a series of elected offices. He strikes us, above all, as a man with a strong moral core.
*
There is no denying that this race is mainly about Mr. Bush's disastrous tenure. Nearly four years ago, after the Supreme Court awarded him the presidency, Mr. Bush came into office amid popular expectation that he would acknowledge his lack of a mandate by sticking close to the center. Instead, he turned the government over to the radical right.

Mr. Bush installed John Ashcroft, a favorite of the far right with a history of insensitivity to civil liberties, as attorney general. He sent the Senate one ideological, activist judicial nominee after another. He moved quickly to implement a far-reaching anti-choice agenda including censorship of government Web sites and a clampdown on embryonic stem cell research. He threw the government's weight against efforts by the University of Michigan to give minority students an edge in admission, as it did for students from rural areas or the offspring of alumni.

When the nation fell into recession, the president remained fixated not on generating jobs but rather on fighting the right wing's war against taxing the wealthy. As a result, money that could have been used to strengthen Social Security evaporated, as did the chance to provide adequate funding for programs the president himself had backed. No Child Left Behind, his signature domestic program, imposed higher standards on local school systems without providing enough money to meet them.

If Mr. Bush had wanted to make a mark on an issue on which Republicans and Democrats have long made common cause, he could have picked the environment. Christie Whitman, the former New Jersey governor chosen to run the Environmental Protection Agency, came from that bipartisan tradition. Yet she left after three years of futile struggle against the ideologues and industry lobbyists Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney had installed in every other important environmental post. The result has been a systematic weakening of regulatory safeguards across the entire spectrum of environmental issues, from clean air to wilderness protection.
*
The president who lost the popular vote got a real mandate on Sept. 11, 2001. With the grieving country united behind him, Mr. Bush had an unparalleled opportunity to ask for almost any shared sacrifice. The only limit was his imagination.
He asked for another tax cut and the war against Iraq.

The president's refusal to drop his tax-cutting agenda when the nation was gearing up for war is perhaps the most shocking example of his inability to change his priorities in the face of drastically altered circumstances. Mr. Bush did not just starve the government of the money it needed for his own education initiative or the Medicare drug bill. He also made tax cuts a higher priority than doing what was needed for America's security; 90 percent of the cargo unloaded every day in the nation's ports still goes uninspected.

Along with the invasion of Afghanistan, which had near unanimous international and domestic support, Mr. Bush and his attorney general put in place a strategy for a domestic antiterror war that had all the hallmarks of the administration's normal method of doing business: a Nixonian obsession with secrecy, disrespect for civil liberties and inept management.

American citizens were detained for long periods without access to lawyers or family members. Immigrants were rounded up and forced to languish in what the Justice Department's own inspector general found were often "unduly harsh" conditions. Men captured in the Afghan war were held incommunicado with no right to challenge their confinement. The Justice Department became a cheerleader for skirting decades-old international laws and treaties forbidding the brutal treatment of prisoners taken during wartime.

Mr. Ashcroft appeared on TV time and again to announce sensational arrests of people who turned out to be either innocent, harmless braggarts or extremely low-level sympathizers of Osama bin Laden who, while perhaps wishing to do something terrible, lacked the means. The Justice Department cannot claim one major successful terrorism prosecution, and has squandered much of the trust and patience the American people freely gave in 2001. Other nations, perceiving that the vast bulk of the prisoners held for so long at Guantánamo Bay came from the same line of ineffectual incompetents or unlucky innocents, and seeing the awful photographs from the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, were shocked that the nation that was supposed to be setting the world standard for human rights could behave that way.
*
Like the tax cuts, Mr. Bush's obsession with Saddam Hussein seemed closer to zealotry than mere policy. He sold the war to the American people, and to Congress, as an antiterrorist campaign even though Iraq had no known working relationship with Al Qaeda. His most frightening allegation was that Saddam Hussein was close to getting nuclear weapons. It was based on two pieces of evidence. One was a story about attempts to purchase critical materials from Niger, and it was the product of rumor and forgery. The other evidence, the purchase of aluminum tubes that the administration said were meant for a nuclear centrifuge, was concocted by one low-level analyst and had been thoroughly debunked by administration investigators and international vetting. Top members of the administration knew this, but the selling went on anyway. None of the president's chief advisers have ever been held accountable for their misrepresentations to the American people or for their mismanagement of the war that followed.

The international outrage over the American invasion is now joined by a sense of disdain for the incompetence of the effort. Moderate Arab leaders who have attempted to introduce a modicum of democracy are tainted by their connection to an administration that is now radioactive in the Muslim world. Heads of rogue states, including Iran and North Korea, have been taught decisively that the best protection against a pre-emptive American strike is to acquire nuclear weapons themselves.
*
We have specific fears about what would happen in a second Bush term, particularly regarding the Supreme Court. The record so far gives us plenty of cause for worry. Thanks to Mr. Bush, Jay Bybee, the author of an infamous Justice Department memo justifying the use of torture as an interrogation technique, is now a federal appeals court judge. Another Bush selection, J. Leon Holmes, a federal judge in Arkansas, has written that wives must be subordinate to their husbands and compared abortion rights activists to Nazis.
Mr. Bush remains enamored of tax cuts but he has never stopped Republican lawmakers from passing massive spending, even for projects he dislikes, like increased farm aid.

If he wins re-election, domestic and foreign financial markets will know the fiscal recklessness will continue. Along with record trade imbalances, that increases the chances of a financial crisis, like an uncontrolled decline of the dollar, and higher long-term interest rates.
The Bush White House has always given us the worst aspects of the American right without any of the advantages. We get the radical goals but not the efficient management. The Department of Education's handling of the No Child Left Behind Act has been heavily politicized and inept. The Department of Homeland Security is famous for its useless alerts and its inability to distribute antiterrorism aid according to actual threats. Without providing enough troops to properly secure Iraq, the administration has managed to so strain the resources of our armed forces that the nation is unprepared to respond to a crisis anywhere else in the world.
*
Mr. Kerry has the capacity to do far, far better. He has a willingness - sorely missing in Washington these days - to reach across the aisle. We are relieved that he is a strong defender of civil rights, that he would remove unnecessary restrictions on stem cell research and that he understands the concept of separation of church and state. We appreciate his sensible plan to provide health coverage for most of the people who currently do without.

Mr. Kerry has an aggressive and in some cases innovative package of ideas about energy, aimed at addressing global warming and oil dependency. He is a longtime advocate of deficit reduction. In the Senate, he worked with John McCain in restoring relations between the United States and Vietnam, and led investigations of the way the international financial system has been gamed to permit the laundering of drug and terror money. He has always understood that America's appropriate role in world affairs is as leader of a willing community of nations, not in my-way-or-the-highway domination.

We look back on the past four years with hearts nearly breaking, both for the lives unnecessarily lost and for the opportunities so casually wasted. Time and again, history invited George W. Bush to play a heroic role, and time and again he chose the wrong course. We believe that with John Kerry as president, the nation will do better.

Voting for president is a leap of faith. A candidate can explain his positions in minute detail and wind up governing with a hostile Congress that refuses to let him deliver. A disaster can upend the best-laid plans. All citizens can do is mix guesswork and hope, examining what the candidates have done in the past, their apparent priorities and their general character. It's on those three grounds that we enthusiastically endorse John Kerry for president.



The most liberal newspaper in the United States, endorsed John Kerry. How is this news?

four more fuckin' years

[JohnnyL]

The New York Times endorsing Kerry is about like Rush Limbaugh endorsing Bush.

[xJbx]

What cracks me up is all these people in rural areas of the country who feel that terrorism is a big issue for them. Come on now, use some common sense. If you live in Hicksville, USA, terrorists probably don't care about attacking you. If you live in New York City or Washington DC, then you have some room to talk about national security issues. And the constituents of those states are resoundingly for Kerry because they've had some first hand experience with Bush's dropping of the ball.

[BrandNewDream]

It was drafted and presented in 2003? So it has come up before? Oh, ok...thanks for backing me up on that one...

Well you're right, no Republican voted for it...because they didn't want to run the risk of sending their kid over to fight. Also, it's true they haven't spoken out about how they want the draft back...that wouldn't be a good way to get re-election votes, would it?

Ok, I didn't read all of the posts, but do you really think that any of the Democratic Congressmen who voted for the bill would really have had their kids go to war? I don't think so.

[yourmom91685]

People are so stupid it makes me sad. Could you imagine if we had a real democracy? Scary.

Yep, that's what the founding fathers thought, and is exactly the reason we don't have a real democracy.

[70x7]

What cracks me up is all these people in rural areas of the country who feel that terrorism is a big issue for them. Come on now, use some common sense. If you live in Hicksville, USA, terrorists probably don't care about attacking you. If you live in New York City or Washington DC, then you have some room to talk about national security issues. And the constituents of those states are resoundingly for Kerry because they've had some first hand experience with Bush's dropping of the ball.

Actually a lot of people think they are just at risk now. Especially if it had to with a school, similar to what happened in Russia.

[JohnnyL]

Those states are for Kerry bc they're democratic strongholds...the polls show Bush is like 40pts up in national/homeland security.

[aminorthreat55]

holy shit. just because they want to kill us doesnt mean we can kill them. are you attila the hun or something? how is that justification for killing them?

Yeah man, good call.

[still]

i'm not gonna read 7 pages of posts. but i will say that kerry isn't much better than bush. hell, my left testicle can make better decisions than bush. but kerry is the next best thing, so vote him. that is all. send all hate mail to lucy@hotteens.com

[halfpricepizza]

is this a bipartisan website?

[aminorthreat55]

You said it endorses Kerry, but all it really did was bash bush. Yet it hardly speaks of what Kerry has done but it seems to mention what he "can" do.

Last time I checked, Kerry didn't have a presidential record to discuss. Hence referring to what he "can" do.

[aminorthreat55]

If you are sick of this then do Canada and the rest of the world a favour, vote for John Kerry. Canada does not want you all running up here when Bush brings back the draft. Kerry will help bring your healthcare to our level, he agrees in stem cell research, and will not Start a war for profit while putting your country in debt. If Bush is re-elected its on your vote, so help the "free world" that Americans are going to vote a leader for.

PS if America is voting for a leader of the free world, the free world should get a vote. Tate keep posting this stuff, it is far more interesting than hearing about how sum 41 knows simple plan eats donkey balls. Thanks Tate.

Actually because of anti-terror laws, if you go to Canada, they can bring you back, so I hope you all like burritos and sand, because next stop: Mexico!!

[70x7]

Kerry also has the huge advantage to point out everything Bush has done that has not gone well, and put himself at a contradictory view and look like a God compared to Bush when there's no guarentee he'd keep that stance in a time of need.

[aminorthreat55]

posts about politics in the months leading up to the election: maybe 10 republician-friendly replies in 100+ comments.

posts about politics in the weeks leading up to the election: leaning more towards 50/50.

why the change? wear out that Rock Against Bush cd already? politics and punk rock, combining the two worst trends known to american culture. ROCK ON!

Yes, my good man, politics is a trend, those Federalists and Anti-Federalists were shmucks.

[aminorthreat55]

Read articles that are published outside of the United States and aren't so biased. Almost every form of media produced in the United States about this election contains bias. Read the BBC or something and get the real facts. Or if you're a stoner its a pretty easy decision ... http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=278&aid=4

Eh, BBC is okay, I would say Canada's Globe & Mail and The Guardian UK are the best international media sources.

[MadisonDW]

The problem with the people posting is that they are simply the epidemic of american youth. "I hate politics". If any one of them other than Tate took the time to read and at worst pick up a book, they could and would quickly learn that the "liberal" media biased shit is a ploy. It's a label. I thought people of your sorts were anti-everything, including labels. The New York Times is THE most respected news publication in the world. That means something. Labeling it "liberal" is just a word that fogs your instincts to believe anything they write. Go pick up something logical instead of regurgitating somng lyrics and what your daddy tells you. If not for your own benefit, for your generation, who's ideals will be represented sooner than you think in the political spectrum.

[bromuda]

The Economist is the most competent publication on the planet. Check it out... www.economist.com (http://www.economist.com/)

[tyais]

The problem with the people posting is that they are simply the epidemic of american youth. "I hate politics". If any one of them other than Tate took the time to read and at worst pick up a book, they could and would quickly learn that the "liberal" media biased shit is a ploy. It's a label. I thought people of your sorts were anti-everything, including labels. The New York Times is THE most respected news publication in the world. That means something. Labeling it "liberal" is just a word that fogs your instincts to believe anything they write. Go pick up something logical instead of regurgitating somng lyrics and what your daddy tells you. If not for your own benefit, for your generation, who's ideals will be represented sooner than you think in the political spectrum.

How about puking out what I've learned via various journalism journals. Really, their IS a liberal bias in the New York Times... the New York Post balances it. There IS a bias in the Washington Post... the Washington Times balances it. Newspapers above all other sources are noted for their tendancies to lean toward a certain side. Take a communications class. You'll learn about it.

[splitsecond]

New York Times is THE most respected news publication in the world.


You are out of your fucking mind. Most well known? MAYBE. Respected? I know very few people who respect it. I'd liek to see where you got that little factoid.

[tyais]

You are out of your fucking mind. Most well known? MAYBE. Respected? I know very few people who respect it. I'd liek to see where you got that little factoid.

I agree with you kind of. It is a respected paper in the fact that it doesn't just print anything it gets its hands on. I don't have any numbers, but I would not be surprised if their were a Pullitzer or two attached to it. But it is definitely NOT THE newspaper in the world.

If I were to pick a metropolitan circulation paper that was THE paper in the US, it would the Washington Post. They've done incredible jobs exposing corruption and with just generally good reporting. They were a driving force behind bringing out Watergate as well as all the crap with Clinton. Their liberal bias goes out the window when it comes to ruining politicians careers and legacy.

[not_important]

a guy comes into my work and starts talking with my boss about the election. he said he served with kerry in the army and that the only thing he would vote for to give him is a court marshall.

[aminorthreat55]

You didn't get my point, not even close.

No, I understand your point completely. I'm just saying that no one can really be sure what Kerry will do in office, regardless of what he says he will do, because there is nothing to show for it.

[Atticus_86]

Fuck terrorist I aint going to be scared of something I have no control over. And I aint going to suport a war that has 10 of thousands civilians killed just so we can get are hands on more oil.

[Sureshot182]

bush is going to win. either way, god knows tate and all these bands will still bitch about who's in office. and on another note..."i wanna move north and be a canadian, or hang down low with the nice australians." ok, then fucking move, no one is stopping you.

[knivesbatstats]

i think when that guy or girl showed who the Times has picked as the right candidate through all the years is when this discussion should of ended since that took the whole "news" factor out of this whole post....i mean like people before me have said similarly, thats like people reporting that Hilary Clinton or Ted Kennedy is voting for Kerry as news...

[Sureshot182]

Your a fucking idiot cuz Kerry is more likely to bring back the draft then Bush his.

THANK YOU. i don't get how people do not see this. kerry said in the debates, that we don't have enough troops in iraq to even fight. if kerry gets into office, he is going to make the claim that in order to get out of iraq, we need more troops...which is likely to start some sort of draft. bush has said since before he took office that the military will remain all volunteer, and has stood by that.

[BrandNewDream]

I agree with you kind of. It is a respected paper in the fact that it doesn't just print anything it gets its hands on.

I have only one name for you: Jayson Blair.

But honestly, thanks for playing.

[tyais]

I have only one name for you: Jayson Blair.

But honestly, thanks for playing.

Agreed. But look at how they handled the situation. It was a BIG deal and he was fired immediately. Like I said, it isn't THE paper in the US, but it's a reliable source of information (even if one or two of their writers jack materials from smaller circulation and then get fired.)

[Slater]

did you just call politics a trend? are you serious?

Every four years, you have groups come out and start screaming "Register and Vote! Vote or Die! Vote Vote Vote!". If you don't register at 18, and don't give a shit about it until some group tells you to vote, it's a trend.

This goes to both sides. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican, Donkey, Elephant, Green, Blue, whatever..........

If you only worry about politics every once in a while, do the world a favor and don't concern yourself. Continue living in your bubble.

[Slater]

Actually, I'm waiting for the next MTV commercial:

"Vote, or 15 years later..... BAM! Herpes!"

[Sinister Rouge]

Kerry is picking up most of the newspaper endorsements, only the south and the heartland newspapers is Bush really picking up.

This election is too close to call, remeber that the Dems registered twice as many voters as the Republicans.

I give America about 30 more years of existance the way we are going...The Dumbass States of Amerika.

[GAD_guy]

i've to the conclusion that MOST bush backers are the most ignorant people on the planet

[xJbx]

Kerry is picking up most of the newspaper endorsements, only the south and the heartland newspapers is Bush really picking up.

This election is too close to call, remeber that the Dems registered twice as many voters as the Republicans.

I give America about 30 more years of existance the way we are going...The Dumbass States of Amerika.

I agree. The south and the Bible belt have the highest ignorant-hillbilly-to-educated-person ratio, so they'll be for Bush.

As for the New York Times, they do have the largest circulation in the country, so you'd think they'd want to hire the best and brightest journalists in the country. I trust their opinion over the podunk press any day.

[punkerx99]

i've to the conclusion that MOST bush backers are the most ignorant people on the planet

and a lot of Kerry followers aren't? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

There are so many kids who spit out lines like: "bush is linked with bin laden, i don't like him." or "the war wasn't justified, let's all vote for kerry."

You know you've heard this before, especially after so many people saw Farenheit 9/11 and based their opinions off it.

[deadEYEDwelcome]

It's not going to change. It's something I believe in, this website is a cullmination of all sorts of things I feel passionate about .. this is one of them.
good job

[MonkeyBars]

I'm so sick of Bush bashing. Ok. We get it, you think you're punk, so that means you hate him. Whoopty doo. Christ I'm fucking Canadian, and honestly, I get so sick of Americans around election time, bot democrats and republicans. And you Nader supporters: fucking wake up, you're only voting for him because you think it's cool.

[MidniteVulture]

And you Nader supporters: fucking wake up, you're only voting for him because you think it's cool.Wow you sure put a nail in my coffin. *rolls eyes*

[poemtothedead]

and a lot of Kerry followers aren't? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

There are so many kids who spit out lines like: "bush is linked with bin laden, i don't like him." or "the war wasn't justified, let's all vote for kerry."

You know you've heard this before, especially after so many people saw Farenheit 9/11 and based their opinions off it.

Funny thing is.. Bush is linked to Bin Laden. He shiped the Bin Laden family out of the united states right after the 911 attack. Kind of odd seeing as how they weren't even questioned whatsoever on whether they knew anything about the attacks or not. At least the kids who are spitting out lines about Kerry have some justification. All of the "Bush needs to stomp those Iraqi's" comments are just ignorant.

How is the war justified? We invaded a country and killed innocent people who shouldn't have been killed. We didn't go to war with a country. We weren't being threatend by a country. It was terrorists.

What would happen if a select group of Americans decided they didn't like the French. So they go over to France and kill hundreds of people. What if France then saw the Americans as a threat and decided to target maybe California or Texas because they heard they had links to the Americans who had done damage to their country. What if France decided to hit us, dropping bombs over America, killing our people because a certain group decided to do this.

Does that makes sense?? Because we did just that.

[poemtothedead]

I'm so sick of Bush bashing. Ok. We get it, you think you're punk, so that means you hate him. Whoopty doo. Christ I'm fucking Canadian, and honestly, I get so sick of Americans around election time, bot democrats and republicans. And you Nader supporters: fucking wake up, you're only voting for him because you think it's cool.

It has nothing to do with being "punk rock". Look at what Bush has done to this country. In four years.. one serving term, he's turned America into a joke. We are in a record breaking deficit, a 500 billion dollar deficit to be exact. We're losing health insurance, Bush has left 40 million Americans without healthcare. We also lose 35,000 jobs every month.. making the overall job loss a little over 2 million. The only president who managed to lose more jobs during their serving was Herbert Hoover... which was during The Great Depression. Imagine that.

Maybe if you lived here you'd understand.

[makebelieve327]

Before this year, and this election, I honestly didn't care much about politics and I could have been easily swayed either way with a persuasive argument. I'm still not the most educated person on the subject, but I feel like I know enough to form my own opinion.

I think that's a problem; too many people are just handfed some numbers or some striking "fact" and are too easily swayed. Farenheit 9/11 has done this to many people, along with MTV and such. One of my friends couldn't tell you a thing good about Kerry, or one thing bad about Bush, yet he has "Kerry/Edwards 2004" in his aim profile, and speaks badly about Bush without knowing anything. Granted people are allowed to believe in whatever they want, but you should know something if you are going to speak strongly about it. There is a ton of ignorance on both sides.

I really don't like either Bush or Kerry, and I used to feel that Kerry was the "lesser of two evils." But I'm not so sure he's that much better than Bush, if at all.

Everyone needs to just stop attempting to use opinion as fact, and people need to stop bashing other's opinions.

[Mattkoon8]

wow... i mean seriously, where do you kids come up with some of this stuff?? alright let me rant a little:
kerry supports abortion, i dont know about you but when kerry says that the decision for an abortion is between "the women and God" kerry sounds like a fucking idiot. lets think about it, is God REALLY gonna give a woman permission to abort an unborn child (which in my opinion is life - no matter what stage of the pregnancy)?? you can always give a child up for adoption. reason for not doing so: just excuses.
people have brought up (in the past, not necessariliy this thread) the argument that bush is against stem cell research. lets clarify this: bush is against the part of stem cell research that takes the cells from unborn children (fetus, whatever grotesque word you would like to use). bush is the first president to allow/speak on such a subject ever. he had already allowed the study of ADULT stem cells. the stem cells are there for the research, now its just a matter of applying for the donation. besides, the whole argument about whether stem cells can "save lives" or in the words of kerry and edwards "make people get out of wheel chairs and walk," is unfactual. no one really knows whether stem cells will help that much or not. the broadening of stem cell's prophecies is disgusting on the democrats part.
lets talk about some more lies... how bout the privitization of social security surprise that kerry keeps talkin about. first of all, its not a total privitization. it seems that they keep saying that hes going to privitize it but forget to tell people why its such a bad thing (in their view). what bush is suggesting with social security is a purely republican way of government (less gov't = more freedom for you). he wants to allow you the citizen more control over what you do with your social security money by allowing a small percentage to be controlled by you so that you can invest it in stocks and bonds if you want and increase what you have prior to your retirement. why is that such a bad thing??? and this isnt something that hes making mandatory for EVERYONE, hes constantly said that if anyone wants to continue to use the old system can do so, but the option not to is now there.
how bout a popular subject from this thread: the draft. many people have already said it but no one (credible) republican is mentioning the draft, never have, never will. bush wants to keep the army voluntary and we continue to recieve enough volunteers to do so. thats all there is to that. the lies that spew from certain democrats mouths about the draft, are just that: lies!
more lies: the issue of republicans looking to suppress the black vote. give me a break, hell if most black people would open there eyes they would probably realize that they are more republican than they know. democrats try to scare blacks into voting their way. the only reason (in my opinion) that we still have racism today is the fact that no one will live it down! especially the dems!! if the dems would quit acting like the republicans hate blacks we wouldnt have these problems.

someone ealier said something about the article that tate posted, saying that the article focused more on bush's failures than actually supporting kerry b/c he has no presidential record?? or something like that??? anyways, kerry has been in the senate for 20 years, his votes have painted one picture and one picture ONLY and it is that of a LIBERAL (not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing). but thats exactly what kerry is going to be in the presidential office, hes only trying to cover up that liberalism so that he can get enough votes (which would not be enough if only liberals voted for him) to be elected. if you look at his suggestions and policies for his presidency, you will see what he really is: a socialist. i say socialist lightly, but with regards to taxes and this "bringing back the middle class" thats exactly what its called. he wants to even out the classes and have one large class of middle america. you cant do that, atleast not in this america. america was built on capitalism and thats the way i would like it to stay, im sure most of you would agree. if you make money, you should keep it... simple as that. kerry doesnt want you to keep your money, he wants you to give it to him so that government can more easily control you.
speaking of government control (and socialism), kerrys plan for health care is really another ploy to control you. think about it: you control peoples health care, you essentially control that person. now theres another underlying reason for control of health care and that is power. health care makes up about 15% of our economy and control of that much government can give you a lot of power. but im willing to overlook that b/c really, who doesnt want some kind of power if they view their way as right? power would give you the ability to make it so.

one last thing: if kerry wins, expect a celebration from the terrorists. kerry winning this election will be a victory for the terrorists and i hope you guys mark my words b/c that will happen barring a bush victory.

[Mattkoon8]

poemtothedead: "Funny thing is.. Bush is linked to Bin Laden. He shiped the Bin Laden family out of the united states right after the 911 attack. Kind of odd seeing as how they weren't even questioned whatsoever on whether they knew anything about the attacks or not. At least the kids who are spitting out lines about Kerry have some justification. All of the "Bush needs to stomp those Iraqi's" comments are just ignorant."

go read the 9/11 commission report you dumbass... and for anyone that will say "oh he had to revert to name calling" - its because im tired of you guys calling us, me, rednecks, bush supporters, etc. IGNORANT.

oh and by the way, the duelfer report (if any of you really know what that is) said that a large amount of equipment left iraq and went to syria right before the war in iraq. he was not able to find out exactly what that was but that a lot of stuff did actually leave iraq. now im not saying that they were wmd's but open your eyes: saddam hated america, had he actually owned wmd's, he would have used them and used them on US! kerry supporters are so quick to let saddam off the hook... WHY?!?!?

[Mattkoon8]

It has nothing to do with being "punk rock". Look at what Bush has done to this country. In four years.. one serving term, he's turned America into a joke. We are in a record breaking deficit, a 500 billion dollar deficit to be exact. We're losing health insurance, Bush has left 40 million Americans without healthcare. We also lose 35,000 jobs every month.. making the overall job loss a little over 2 million. The only president who managed to lose more jobs during their serving was Herbert Hoover... which was during The Great Depression. Imagine that.

Maybe if you lived here you'd understand.

is it possible that youre related to tate? you sound just like him...

besides the fact that bush cant create jobs which i wont get into, your statement about losing 35000 jobs every month is just outright wrong. were gaining jobs, not losing them. the economy is getting better, not worse.... just go do some research

[poemtothedead]

Before this year, and this election, I honestly didn't care much about politics and I could have been easily swayed either way with a persuasive argument. I'm still not the most educated person on the subject, but I feel like I know enough to form my own opinion.

I think that's a problem; too many people are just handfed some numbers or some striking "fact" and are too easily swayed. Farenheit 9/11 has done this to many people, along with MTV and such. One of my friends couldn't tell you a thing good about Kerry, or one thing bad about Bush, yet he has "Kerry/Edwards 2004" in his aim profile, and speaks badly about Bush without knowing anything. Granted people are allowed to believe in whatever they want, but you should know something if you are going to speak strongly about it. There is a ton of ignorance on both sides.

I really don't like either Bush or Kerry, and I used to feel that Kerry was the "lesser of two evils." But I'm not so sure he's that much better than Bush, if at all.

Everyone needs to just stop attempting to use opinion as fact, and people need to stop bashing other's opinions.

Everything that I posted was indeed a fact. Not some thought up plan to get rid of bush, not an opinion. They were strict text book fact. The numbers I provided are real. Look at them. They speak for themselves.

[makebelieve327]

Everything that I posted was indeed a fact. Not some thought up plan to get rid of bush, not an opinion. They were strict text book fact. The numbers I provided are real. Look at them. They speak for themselves.

Sorry if it appeared as if I was commenting on what you said, but I wasn't. I was just speaking in general.

[poemtothedead]

is it possible that youre related to tate? you sound just like him...

besides the fact that bush cant create jobs which i wont get into, your statement about losing 35000 jobs every month is just outright wrong. were gaining jobs, not losing them. the economy is getting better, not worse.... just go do some research


Haha , I have done research. It's the truth. Bush has provided some jobs, yes. The United States currently needs to create 150,000 - 200,000 jobs each month just to keep up with population growth. Bush not providing these jobs means we're behind. That's the truth.

[Mattkoon8]

Haha , I have done research. It's the truth. Bush has provided some jobs, yes. The United States currently needs to create 150,000 - 200,000 jobs each month just to keep up with population growth. Bush not providing these jobs means we're behind. That's the truth.

but WE ARE NOT losing 35000 jobs every month!! thats the statement i was referring to

[knivesbatstats]

Everything that I posted was indeed a fact. Not some thought up plan to get rid of bush, not an opinion. They were strict text book fact. The numbers I provided are real. Look at them. They speak for themselves.

those numbers are not all true, jobs are being created, and those numbers lose some basic facts, like for example go take a basic econ class and learn that jobs is a trailing indicator which means that its affected by shit that happened like 5 years ago, which means shit clinton did and 9/11 didnt help much either

[poemtothedead]

poemtothedead: "Funny thing is.. Bush is linked to Bin Laden. He shiped the Bin Laden family out of the united states right after the 911 attack. Kind of odd seeing as how they weren't even questioned whatsoever on whether they knew anything about the attacks or not. At least the kids who are spitting out lines about Kerry have some justification. All of the "Bush needs to stomp those Iraqi's" comments are just ignorant."

go read the 9/11 commission report you dumbass... and for anyone that will say "oh he had to revert to name calling" - its because im tired of you guys calling us, me, rednecks, bush supporters, etc. IGNORANT.

oh and by the way, the duelfer report (if any of you really know what that is) said that a large amount of equipment left iraq and went to syria right before the war in iraq. he was not able to find out exactly what that was but that a lot of stuff did actually leave iraq. now im not saying that they were wmd's but open your eyes: saddam hated america, had he actually owned wmd's, he would have used them and used them on US! kerry supporters are so quick to let saddam off the hook... WHY?!?!?


Hey asshole. I never said Bush supporters were ignorant. I said the fools who gave no valid reason were indeed ignorant. The same goes for anyone who backs something without any reason or isn't aware of the facts. No one is letting Saddam off the hook. But this war wasn't againt Saddam Hussein.

I have also read both the 911 commision report and the Duelfer Report. Though your statement on them shipping out "something" before the war in Iraq is true, Duelfer also states that there were no weapons found and his predicted chance of ever finding a significant stockpile are less than 5 percent. Duelfer also said his teams found no evidence of mobile biological weapons capability.

[poemtothedead]

those numbers are not all true, jobs are being created, and those numbers lose some basic facts, like for example go take a basic econ class and learn that jobs is a trailing indicator which means that its affected by shit that happened like 5 years ago, which means shit clinton did and 9/11 didnt help much either

my point was not enough jobs are being created.

[Trainsaw]

WTF is up with all this "If Kerry Wins expect a celebration from the terrorists". Do you honestly think that terrorism started when G.W. rolled around? It isn't like G.W. is saving the world from terrorism anyways. Where the fuck is Bin Laden. G.W. sure doesn't know

[poemtothedead]

WTF is up with all this "If Kerry Wins expect a celebration from the terrorists". Do you honestly think that terrorism started when G.W. rolled around? It isn't like G.W. is saving the world from terrorism anyways. Where the fuck is Bin Laden. G.W. sure doesn't know

haha good point.

[not_important]

i'm a total bush supporter. no one can change my mind, cause i know what i stand for. i don't know all the facts, but then none of us do. i believe defending our country after 9/11 was the right thing to do. if we would have done nothing, other countries, terrorists, we see an opportunity. they would see us as a pushover. the thing with the war in iraq, there was a threat there, and we just did something about it. maybe it was just a threat, but how many times is it going to be just a threat? bush didn't let history repeat itself. look back at pearl harbor. if we would have gone to war before then and quit saying "this isn't our war" pearl harbor would have never happened. if we would have done something in advance, those people at pearl harbor would have never died. well, this is the same situation.

go ahead, tear me apart. i don't care. i don't know you. i'm not going to be hurt, and you're not going to change my mind.

[poemtothedead]

i'm a total bush supporter. no one can change my mind, cause i know what i stand for. i don't know all the facts, but then none of us do. i believe defending our country after 9/11 was the right thing to do. if we would have done nothing, other countries, terrorists, we see an opportunity. they would see us as a pushover. the thing with the war in iraq, there was a threat there, and we just did something about it. maybe it was just a threat, but how many times is it going to be just a threat? bush didn't let history repeat itself. look back at pearl harbor. if we would have gone to war before then and quit saying "this isn't our war" pearl harbor would have never happened. if we would have done something in advance, those people at pearl harbor would have never died. well, this is the same situation.

go ahead, tear me apart. i don't care. i don't know you. i'm not going to be hurt, and you're not going to change my mind.

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. I however support Kerry. Florida was allowed to vote early so yesterday I put my vote in for Kerry and Edwards..

[Mattkoon8]

dude, dont try to back track - we can all read your posts plain and clear... you said (and i quote) "all of the "Bush needs to stomp those Iraqi's" comments are just ignorant." yes you called us people that support bush and his war in iraq ignorant, you CANNOT deny it...

"my point was not enough jobs are being created." - thats the exact opposite of what you said. you said that we were LOSING 35000 jobs a month, not that we werent creating ENOUGH jobs.

"But this war wasn't againt Saddam Hussein." - umm.... who is the war in iraq against then? something that people forget is that bush also said that he was going to go after people who harbor/tolerate the terrorists, saddam did that and we went after him...

"I have also read both the 911 commision report and the Duelfer Report. Though your statement on them shipping out "something" before the war in Iraq is true, Duelfer also states that there were no weapons found" - there were no weapons IN IRAQ, that doesnt rule out the idea of those wmd's moving out of iraq.

speaking of "something" moving out of iraq and into syria, does anyone else find it a coincidance that syria now has the capability to make wmd's?? bringing me to another point, why does kerry support giving a "sworn enemy (edwards' own words)" in syria the nuclear fuel that would arm those wmd's???

[Mattkoon8]

WTF is up with all this "If Kerry Wins expect a celebration from the terrorists". Do you honestly think that terrorism started when G.W. rolled around? It isn't like G.W. is saving the world from terrorism anyways. Where the fuck is Bin Laden. G.W. sure doesn't know

i forgot to respond to this shit of a post - youre reply has nothing to do with what i was talking about except that we each mention terrorism... the celebration from the terrorists will be b/c they know that kerry will not go after them nearly as steadfast and hard as bush has/will. they will celebrate b/c they have succeeded in effecting the outcome of this election if kerry is to win. they dont want kerry in office and neither do the leaders of the world b/c they know that all there little secrets may be put out in the open. no one has ever really liked the United States and all of a sudden people think that if kerry wins, everyone WILL like us... wrong! they never will, thats what happens when you live in the best, most free, most prosperous country the world has ever seen.

[ZachPrkr]

my point was not enough jobs are being created.

There’s a HUGE difference between not enough jobs and losing jobs. Thats where your opinion/biased came into play.

[UndefinedBoy]

i forgot to respond to this shit of a post - youre reply has nothing to do with what i was talking about except that we each mention terrorism... the celebration from the terrorists will be b/c they know that kerry will not go after them nearly as steadfast and hard as bush has/will. they will celebrate b/c they have succeeded in effecting the outcome of this election if kerry is to win. they dont want kerry in office and neither do the leaders of the world b/c they know that all there little secrets may be put out in the open. no one has ever really liked the United States and all of a sudden people think that if kerry wins, everyone WILL like us... wrong! they never will, thats what happens when you live in the best, most free, most prosperous country the world has ever seen.

Haha ohhh man, do you have a lot to learn.

Give me some proof Kerry won't go after the terrorists as hard as Bush.

How many terrorists do you think Bush indirectly created with this "War on Terror?"

No one said the world will love us if Kerry wins, but Kerry cares about keeping our allies close way more than Bush does.

Think people are going to love this country when we're filled with people as arrogant as you?...wrong!

[mc_cletus]

to tate:
John Kerry called... he said get off his nuts.

[Mattkoon8]

Haha ohhh man, do you have a lot to learn.

Give me some proof Kerry won't go after the terrorists as hard as Bush.

How many terrorists do you think Bush indirectly created with this "War on Terror?"

No one said the world will love us if Kerry wins, but Kerry cares about keeping our allies close way more than Bush does.

Think people are going to love this country when we're filled with people as arrogant as you?...wrong!

look, the only proof i need is to look at kerry's record: he's voted almost always against anything that has to do with defense, defense systems, and wars/battles. he tells you today that he will start doing such things and that he can win the war on terror... its just not gonna happen...

i dont think bush created that many terrorists by starting the war on terror - i do, however, think that the terrorists are maybe out in a little more force than usual. and thats b/c this is a war - you think theyre gonna sit back and wait for bush to get em??

what allies do you want kerry to care about? france? germany? the ones that are being investigated for scandal in the un oil for food scam??? the ones that really care are already there helping out

im not arrogant at all... just pissed off that people arent seeing the big picture... this world has changed and the way kerry talks and the way kerry has acted/is acting, if he becomes president this country is going to be in some trouble HOWEVER way you look at it...

[xJbx]

wow... i mean seriously, where do you kids come up with some of this stuff?? alright let me rant a little:
kerry supports abortion, i dont know about you but when kerry says that the decision for an abortion is between "the women and God" kerry sounds like a fucking idiot. lets think about it, is God REALLY gonna give a woman permission to abort an unborn child (which in my opinion is life - no matter what stage of the pregnancy)?? you can always give a child up for adoption. reason for not doing so: just excuses.
people have brought up (in the past, not necessariliy this thread) the argument that bush is against stem cell research. lets clarify this: bush is against the part of stem cell research that takes the cells from unborn children (fetus, whatever grotesque word you would like to use). bush is the first president to allow/speak on such a subject ever. he had already allowed the study of ADULT stem cells. the stem cells are there for the research, now its just a matter of applying for the donation. besides, the whole argument about whether stem cells can "save lives" or in the words of kerry and edwards "make people get out of wheel chairs and walk," is unfactual. no one really knows whether stem cells will help that much or not. the broadening of stem cell's prophecies is disgusting on the democrats part.
lets talk about some more lies... how bout the privitization of social security surprise that kerry keeps talkin about. first of all, its not a total privitization. it seems that they keep saying that hes going to privitize it but forget to tell people why its such a bad thing (in their view). what bush is suggesting with social security is a purely republican way of government (less gov't = more freedom for you). he wants to allow you the citizen more control over what you do with your social security money by allowing a small percentage to be controlled by you so that you can invest it in stocks and bonds if you want and increase what you have prior to your retirement. why is that such a bad thing??? and this isnt something that hes making mandatory for EVERYONE, hes constantly said that if anyone wants to continue to use the old system can do so, but the option not to is now there.
how bout a popular subject from this thread: the draft. many people have already said it but no one (credible) republican is mentioning the draft, never have, never will. bush wants to keep the army voluntary and we continue to recieve enough volunteers to do so. thats all there is to that. the lies that spew from certain democrats mouths about the draft, are just that: lies!
more lies: the issue of republicans looking to suppress the black vote. give me a break, hell if most black people would open there eyes they would probably realize that they are more republican than they know. democrats try to scare blacks into voting their way. the only reason (in my opinion) that we still have racism today is the fact that no one will live it down! especially the dems!! if the dems would quit acting like the republicans hate blacks we wouldnt have these problems.

someone ealier said something about the article that tate posted, saying that the article focused more on bush's failures than actually supporting kerry b/c he has no presidential record?? or something like that??? anyways, kerry has been in the senate for 20 years, his votes have painted one picture and one picture ONLY and it is that of a LIBERAL (not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing). but thats exactly what kerry is going to be in the presidential office, hes only trying to cover up that liberalism so that he can get enough votes (which would not be enough if only liberals voted for him) to be elected. if you look at his suggestions and policies for his presidency, you will see what he really is: a socialist. i say socialist lightly, but with regards to taxes and this "bringing back the middle class" thats exactly what its called. he wants to even out the classes and have one large class of middle america. you cant do that, atleast not in this america. america was built on capitalism and thats the way i would like it to stay, im sure most of you would agree. if you make money, you should keep it... simple as that. kerry doesnt want you to keep your money, he wants you to give it to him so that government can more easily control you.
speaking of government control (and socialism), kerrys plan for health care is really another ploy to control you. think about it: you control peoples health care, you essentially control that person. now theres another underlying reason for control of health care and that is power. health care makes up about 15% of our economy and control of that much government can give you a lot of power. but im willing to overlook that b/c really, who doesnt want some kind of power if they view their way as right? power would give you the ability to make it so.

one last thing: if kerry wins, expect a celebration from the terrorists. kerry winning this election will be a victory for the terrorists and i hope you guys mark my words b/c that will happen barring a bush victory.

I read this entire convoluted attempt at an argument and did not find one point that hadn't already been force-fed to the conservative base by Karl Rove. I respect your viewpoint, but come on now, wheres the beef?

And Kudos to Gov. Shwarzenneger for breaking with his party today and endorsing stem cell research.

[poemtothedead]

i forgot to respond to this shit of a post - youre reply has nothing to do with what i was talking about except that we each mention terrorism... the celebration from the terrorists will be b/c they know that kerry will not go after them nearly as steadfast and hard as bush has/will. they will celebrate b/c they have succeeded in effecting the outcome of this election if kerry is to win. they dont want kerry in office and neither do the leaders of the world b/c they know that all there little secrets may be put out in the open. no one has ever really liked the United States and all of a sudden people think that if kerry wins, everyone WILL like us... wrong! they never will, thats what happens when you live in the best, most free, most prosperous country the world has ever seen.

I'm bored with this. Eat shit you worthless fuck.

[burnpianoisland]

If you are sick of this then do Canada and the rest of the world a favour, vote for John Kerry. Canada does not want you all running up here when Bush brings back the draft. Kerry will help bring your healthcare to our level, he agrees in stem cell research, and will not Start a war for profit while putting your country in debt. If Bush is re-elected its on your vote, so help the "free world" that Americans are going to vote a leader for.

PS if America is voting for a leader of the free world, the free world should get a vote. Tate keep posting this stuff, it is far more interesting than hearing about how sum 41 knows simple plan eats donkey balls. Thanks Tate.

Kerry's for the draft and Bush is against it you stupid fucking canuck. shut your fucking mouth.

[here2alkaline]

It's come up once and it's been talked about since then. To say its come up multiple times would incinuate its been brought before Congress multiple times. It's been brought up by idiot liberal pundits who want to use it as a scare tactic in order to get Republicans out of office because they support the war more than Democrats.

And you admit no Republicans have spoken out about it... and yet you know that Republicans are the ones who really want it? Really, I'd be interested to know which Republican politicans confided in you this information that they really want the draft even though all their actions show they don't.

a list of washingtonites who have sugguested a new draft

Abraham, Spencer -- Bush Secretary of Energy, wouldn't fight.
Abrams, Elliott -- guilty of lying, tells us to trust him about Iraq.
Ailes, Roger -- FOX News hawk, expert at tricking voters for GOP
Alexandar, Lamar -- once and future GOP candidate for President
Ashcroft, John -- "top cop" in charge of keeping us safe. He didn't.
Barr, Bob -- GOP Congressman had FBI hound Clinton not Al Queda.
Bartlett, Roscoe - GOP Congressman, wouldn't fight.
Bauer, Gary -- once and future GOP candidate for President
Bennett, Bill -- knows what's best for us, dodging war was best for him.
Bush, George W -- 2nd place finisher in 2000 Presidential Election.
Bush, Jeb -- helped 2nd place finisher "win" 2000 Election
Card, Andrew -- W. Bush Chief of Staff, dodged service like his boss.
Chambliss, Saxby -- GOP wants new draft despite dodging it himself.
Cheney, Dick -- his anti-terror task force didn't meet once before.
DeLay, Tom -- pro-war GOP wants new draft despite dodging it himself.
Evans, Don top Bush advisor who wants new draft despite dodging service.
Gaffney, Frank demands war, refused to fight.
Gingrich, Newt -- pro-war GOP who wants new draft despite dodging service.
Gramm, Phil -- GOP Senator, his wife served on Enron Board of Directors.
Hannity, Sean FOX hawk for war, if he doesn't have to go.
Hastert, Dennis -- Top GOP in the House, Speaker ... for now.
Hume, Brit -- FOX hawk demands war, so long as he doesn't have to.
Hutchinson, Asa -- Bush's "Drug Czar," in Congress was like his brother:
Hutchinson, Tim -- GOP Senator made FBI hound Clinton rather than Al Queda.
Keating, Frank -- GOP Senator demands war, dodged service.
Kemp, Jack -- GOP VP candidate played for NFL claiming VN disability.
Keyes, Alan -- once and future GOP candidate for President
Krauthammer, Charles -- loudly demands war, refused to serve.
Kristol, William -- FOX hawk demands war, refused to serve.
LaPierre, Wayne -- NRA "tough guy" so long as the target can't shoot back.
Limbaugh, David -- critic of Clinton's "draft dodging" too good to fight.
Limbaugh, Rush -- critic of Clinton's "draft dodging" too good to fight.
Lott, Trent -- once and hopefully not future Senate Majority Leader
McConnell, Mitch -- fighter against clean campaigns, no guts to serve.
Medved, Michael -- critic of communism in Hollywood, no guts to serve.
Nickles, Don -- GOP Senate critic of Clinton, too good to serve.
Olson, Ted -- Solicitor General, too good to serve.
O'Rourke, P.J. -- unfunny comic who opposed war until too old to fight.
Perle, Richard -- loudly demands war, but wouldn't fight in one.
Pitt, Harvey -- Bush's toothless corporate watchdog too good to serve.
Quayle, Dan -- W. Bush's father's surrogate son, too good to fight.
Racicot, Mark -- Chairman of party that wants your sons drafted, not theirs.
Romney, Mitt -- Republican candidate for Governor of Massachusetts.
Rove, Karl -- Bush's "Brain" tells GOPs war wins votes, refused to go to war.
Scalia, Antonin -- killed Democracy in 2000, refused to serve his country.
Shelby, Richard -- GOP Senator who supports war, too good to go himself.
Starr, Ken -- made FBI hound President Clinton rather than Al Queda.
Stein, Ben -- unfunny comic supports war now he's too old to fight.
Thomas, Clarence -- Scalia's caddy, also too good to fight for his country.
Thompson, Tommy -- GOP "tough guy" too chicken to risk his life for his country.
Tyrrell, R. Emmett -- made FBI hound President Clinton rather than Al Queda.
Will, George -- loudly demands war, but wouldn't fight in one himself.
Wolfowitz, Paul -- loudly demands war, but refused to serve.

[thirtythreecm]

I think it's important to notice that ignorance falls heavily one both sides of the line, though I think Democrats tend to be more so ignorant. I know a ton of kids who hate Bush just for the sake of hating Bush, but a good number of kids I know who hate Kerry atleast have a reason to go with their hatred. I dunno...

[thirtythreecm]

WAIT WAIT WAIT George W. Bush HAS NOT HAS NOT HAS NOT said there will be a draft instated and HAS CLEARLY STATED that no such thing will take place. DO NOT BULL-SHIT

[bromuda]

I just read a great article that pertains to much of these discussions for whomever would like to see some REAL numbers, let the facts speak for themselves:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/walterwilliams/ww20041020.shtml

A little insight on Kerry's voting record and what he'll do in office as well:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Armstrongwilliams/aw20041019.shtml

[Mattkoon8]

all you liberals, democrats and other kerry supporters better read the article that bromuda just posted... looks like the country isnt in such a bad position afterall (and by no means am i saying that this article is the end all to these arguments, the sources are out there for you yourself to research).... the difference between bush and kerry is that bush is a realist and kerry is an idealist. kerry paints the sky with pessimism to make you think that the country is turning into shit when in REALITY, thats just not so. we live in a country where the opportunities for employment and wealth and such are anything but impossible. its just that no one wants to do the work to get there anymore.

look im not out here necessarily to prove im right and youre wrong, i want to convince people that the way of thinking that kerry and the democrats have almost forced upon you is wrong. there are 2 weeks till election day which means you still have plenty of time to change your mind.

[tyais]

a list of washingtonites who have sugguested a new draft

Abraham, Spencer -- Bush Secretary of Energy, wouldn't fight.
Abrams, Elliott -- guilty of lying, tells us to trust him about Iraq.
Ailes, Roger -- FOX News hawk, expert at tricking voters for GOP
Alexandar, Lamar -- once and future GOP candidate for President
Ashcroft, John -- "top cop" in charge of keeping us safe. He didn't.
Barr, Bob -- GOP Congressman had FBI hound Clinton not Al Queda.
Bartlett, Roscoe - GOP Congressman, wouldn't fight.
Bauer, Gary -- once and future GOP candidate for President
Bennett, Bill -- knows what's best for us, dodging war was best for him.
Bush, George W -- 2nd place finisher in 2000 Presidential Election.
Bush, Jeb -- helped 2nd place finisher "win" 2000 Election
Card, Andrew -- W. Bush Chief of Staff, dodged service like his boss.
Chambliss, Saxby -- GOP wants new draft despite dodging it himself.
Cheney, Dick -- his anti-terror task force didn't meet once before.
DeLay, Tom -- pro-war GOP wants new draft despite dodging it himself.
Evans, Don top Bush advisor who wants new draft despite dodging service.
Gaffney, Frank demands war, refused to fight.
Gingrich, Newt -- pro-war GOP who wants new draft despite dodging service.
Gramm, Phil -- GOP Senator, his wife served on Enron Board of Directors.
Hannity, Sean FOX hawk for war, if he doesn't have to go.
Hastert, Dennis -- Top GOP in the House, Speaker ... for now.
Hume, Brit -- FOX hawk demands war, so long as he doesn't have to.
Hutchinson, Asa -- Bush's "Drug Czar," in Congress was like his brother:
Hutchinson, Tim -- GOP Senator made FBI hound Clinton rather than Al Queda.
Keating, Frank -- GOP Senator demands war, dodged service.
Kemp, Jack -- GOP VP candidate played for NFL claiming VN disability.
Keyes, Alan -- once and future GOP candidate for President
Krauthammer, Charles -- loudly demands war, refused to serve.
Kristol, William -- FOX hawk demands war, refused to serve.
LaPierre, Wayne -- NRA "tough guy" so long as the target can't shoot back.
Limbaugh, David -- critic of Clinton's "draft dodging" too good to fight.
Limbaugh, Rush -- critic of Clinton's "draft dodging" too good to fight.
Lott, Trent -- once and hopefully not future Senate Majority Leader
McConnell, Mitch -- fighter against clean campaigns, no guts to serve.
Medved, Michael -- critic of communism in Hollywood, no guts to serve.
Nickles, Don -- GOP Senate critic of Clinton, too good to serve.
Olson, Ted -- Solicitor General, too good to serve.
O'Rourke, P.J. -- unfunny comic who opposed war until too old to fight.
Perle, Richard -- loudly demands war, but wouldn't fight in one.
Pitt, Harvey -- Bush's toothless corporate watchdog too good to serve.
Quayle, Dan -- W. Bush's father's surrogate son, too good to fight.
Racicot, Mark -- Chairman of party that wants your sons drafted, not theirs.
Romney, Mitt -- Republican candidate for Governor of Massachusetts.
Rove, Karl -- Bush's "Brain" tells GOPs war wins votes, refused to go to war.
Scalia, Antonin -- killed Democracy in 2000, refused to serve his country.
Shelby, Richard -- GOP Senator who supports war, too good to go himself.
Starr, Ken -- made FBI hound President Clinton rather than Al Queda.
Stein, Ben -- unfunny comic supports war now he's too old to fight.
Thomas, Clarence -- Scalia's caddy, also too good to fight for his country.
Thompson, Tommy -- GOP "tough guy" too chicken to risk his life for his country.
Tyrrell, R. Emmett -- made FBI hound President Clinton rather than Al Queda.
Will, George -- loudly demands war, but wouldn't fight in one himself.
Wolfowitz, Paul -- loudly demands war, but refused to serve.

Though no one will see this, just so its on record that I responded....

I call BS.

First of all, you need to cite your source biotch. You lifted that directly from a Mike Hersh commentary found here (http://www.mikehersh.com/article_99.shtml). Don't copy and paste crap and make it look like your own.

Second, Hersh doesn't even attempt to say how he knows these guys want a draft -- really, all it is are outspoken Republicans who weren't drafted for one reason or another during the Vietnam War. Don't try and pretend its like these guys are pushing hard for a draft.

Third, if you take Hersh as a source of information, you need to re-evaluate yourself. Liberals listening to Hersh is as good as Conservatives listening to Coulter. Stop being a tool, think for yourself.

[lessthanthreexo]

vote your concience. nader '04.

seriously, i am all about candidates that supports a woman's right to choice regarding abortion and want to make a portion of your college tuition tax deductable.