And Watch The Daily Show Tonight at 10

[Jason Tate]

Okay, it's November 2nd: VOTE. This is the official Election Day discussion thread. Keep checking back here throughout the day and most likely night to discuss everything that happens in this year's election.

[OurHeartAttack]

This is going to be a shitfest.

[PerfectMess]

Let me be the first to say...

4 MORE YEARS!

ok, let me be the first to say... HELL NO!

[Mickey]

Vote Kerry.

[X__inhope]

im going to vote tomorrow, for kerry, and right now i have a sick feeling in my stomach. it sort of sucks.

[infmoe]

Both aren't the best fit for this job but one more than the other...

Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.Vote Kerry.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Vote BUSH.

[Frank Giaramita]

Vote for whoever the fuck you believe in, not who some random people on message boards tell you to.

[Chris March]

my god, arcadian said something smart. voting propaganda does nothing. look past all the fucking stickers and signs, and educate yourself before voting. but do vote.

although i want to say that john kerry looks like a date rapist. hahah!!!

[Mr Nohbody]

Vote for whoever the fuck you believe in, not who some random people on message boards tell you to.

...ufck that, punkvideoguys told me to vote bush and damnit I'll do it!

[Frank Giaramita]

my god, arcadian said something smart. voting propaganda does nothing. look past all the fucking stickers and signs, and educate yourself before voting. but do vote.

although i want to say that john kerry looks like a date rapist. hahah!!!

hahaha, suck it.

[spooky2k]

hey.
I'm not from the USA, but as you probably know, the rest of the world is really watching america for this election. I'm from the UK, and i'm glued. i wish i could vote.
I urge everyone to please please vote. if u wanna vote bush, do it, if you wanna vote kerry do it, etc...but just vote whatever happens.
Point is, this election needs to be the voice of america as a whole. Not the voice of all 30- somethings etc.
I urge you all to go and vote, and use the freedom you were granted to pick who you want to vote for.
Don't listen to the tv, or Michael Moore, well, do listen to them, but know its all bullshit, inform your own conscience and vote. please guys. I dont wanna see anything happen like 9/11 again, and i really want america's people to stand up for themselves.

Spooky2k/Dan

p.s: if u don't want to vote, or cant decide, then dont vote. simple as. no one should harrass you for this.

[Thomas Sway]

It's like Christmas. All this nervous anticipation.

Except there's a chance that instead of a gift you'll get fucked in the ass.

Damn you double edged Christmas.

You're not real.

[halfpricepizza]

I think I'm just sort of glad I got a post within the first 15. Then, when then post is fondly remembered, I can say i was there.

[Frank Giaramita]

it bothers me greatly when Kerry supporters push their beliefs on Bush supporters like.."You better vote for Kerry blah blah blah", bc pushing beliefs on other people (or nations, in this case) is something BUSH WOULD DO and is a significant reason why he isn't getting my vote.

[Tony]

It's like Christmas. All this nervous anticipation.

Except there's a chance that instead of a gift you'll get fucked in the ass.

Damn you double edged Christmas.

You're not real.
I'd say it's more like getting fucked in the ass or getting fucked in the ass by your dad. I fucking hate Bush, but Kerry's no gift from the heavens by any means.

I liked Jon Stewart's way of telling people tonight to vote Kerry the best: "As a comedian who makes a living making fun of politicians, I encourage all of you to go out and vote and make my job for the next 4 years REALLY hard."

Anyway, I voted Kerry myself. As much as I wanted to vote Nader (and given the incredibly slim chance of WA going to Bush), I just couldn't take that risk.

[Frank Giaramita]

And if you guys aren't sick of him yet, here is Fat Mike's last public speaking about the election (or so he says):



"Hello and welcome to Monday. This is gonna be the best Monday ever. Why you ask? This is the last day I ever have to speak publically about this fucking election. Probably the last time I will ever mention the word 'election' again. Yes, it's hard to believe, but no one is more sick of hearing me talk about politics than me. But here it is, my last rant.

The polls are even and it's too close too call, except one thing that everyone seems to agree on. No one had properly polled the youth of America. This is mainly because pollsters don't call cell phones and they don't generally question first time voters. This means that this election might actually be decided by us. It has never been more important for young people to vote. WE ARE THE DECIDING FACTOR. So please, if you can vote, VOTE tomorrow(today). The entire planet is counting on us. Oh, and after you vote, there's a big party at my house and you are all invited. BYOB and please take your shoes off before entering. If Kerry wins, it'll be an all nighter. If Bush wins, there will be plenty of Valium for everyone."

Best wishes, Fat Mike

[tommyhaych]

And if you guys aren't sick of him yet, here is Fat Mike's last public speaking about the election (or so he says):



"Hello and welcome to Monday. This is gonna be the best Monday ever. Why you ask? This is the last day I ever have to speak publically about this fucking election. Probably the last time I will ever mention the word 'election' again. Yes, it's hard to believe, but no one is more sick of hearing me talk about politics than me. But here it is, my last rant.

The polls are even and it's too close too call, except one thing that everyone seems to agree on. No one had properly polled the youth of America. This is mainly because pollsters don't call cell phones and they don't generally question first time voters. This means that this election might actually be decided by us. It has never been more important for young people to vote. WE ARE THE DECIDING FACTOR. So please, if you can vote, VOTE tomorrow(today). The entire planet is counting on us. Oh, and after you vote, there's a big party at my house and you are all invited. BYOB and please take your shoes off before entering. If Kerry wins, it'll be an all nighter. If Bush wins, there will be plenty of Valium for everyone."

Best wishes, Fat Mike


YAWN!

It's not like we've heard it all before...

[venus/bacchus]

I give it 2 more pages before the bickering starts

[Jesse2]

I just can't wait for the live one-hour Daily Show tonight.

[mwhpunk]

----Let me be the first to say...

4 MORE YEARS!

[punkerx99]

LET'S GO W!!!!

Remember kids: vote or die motherfucker (south park anyone...?)





P.S.: My 18th birthday is TOMORROW so I can't vote today. Oh well, it's not like it would matter in NY anyway.

[punkerx99]

YAWN!

It's not like we've heard it all before...


I'm on the Beastie Boys' mailing list and their newest email this morning basically told kids to vote for John Kerry and not Bush. It's somewhat ridiculous that they are trying to manipulate their fans. They should have just said: Vote. Fat Mike (on the other hand) is a completely different case. I just can't wait to see his reaction when Bush wins.

[WinonaRyder5000]

Don't vote, kids, you'll only encourage them.

[greenparticle2]

I was the first person to vote in my precinct at 7:01 am this morning. I feel great.

[boyinastitch]

bush is emo

[Lueda Alia]

My friend posted this on the john kerry forum and I couldn't agree more with her:


I've never been in a forum before but I feel compelled to write to you. As a Canadian I am perplexed by many things about America but voting by party is a major point. In a poll during our elections most Canadians stated that they vote for the best candidate not a party. As your neighbour I beg any of you that call yourselves Republican because your parents were or are, or your grandparents or whatever the case - just to vote for the best candidate, John Kerry. Being north of the border I am not lucky enough to vote in your election even though the repercussions of your election will be felt here. I feel deeply connected to what happens to your great nation but when it comes down to it, I cannot help you make the necessary changes that are needed to protect both of our countries. In the age of NAFTA our two countries could hardly be closer - for this reason I need to remind you of the flood of evidence that proves that your current President is a 'disaster'. You simply need to see what the rest of the world does. Your President attacked a country that did not threaten you, did not attack you and claimed to do it to disarm it of weapons it did not have. Your President told you that the American troops would be greeted by Iraq with open arms but instead your president has cost you lives - almost 1,500 American lives. Your President can not supply flu vaccines to the elderly or children. Canada is attempting to assist you with our surplus. You cannot afford prescription drugs. We have train loads of elderly and ailing Americans coming to Toronto to see a doctor and have their prescriptions changed by Canadian doctors in order to receive fair prices for their medication. Your President has not accepted blame for the no-win war you are engaged in, or for lying to you. Everytime I read a poll as to why people will vote for Bush they say it's because he will be the stronger leader in war. Perhaps it's because Canadians are peace keepers we find this statement to be the most ridiculous. The goal should be to avoid war. Protecting yourselves is important I agree but provoking a war is insane. So as your neighbour if you are a so-called Republican or you are still undecided I am asking you to vote for John Kerry not just for your sake but for ours. Our fate is in your hands. Please don't let us down.



KERRY '04!!!!!!!

[[Brendan]]

And if you guys aren't sick of him yet, here is Fat Mike's last public speaking about the election (or so he says):



"Hello and welcome to Monday. This is gonna be the best Monday ever. Why you ask? This is the last day I ever have to speak publically about this fucking election. Probably the last time I will ever mention the word 'election' again. Yes, it's hard to believe, but no one is more sick of hearing me talk about politics than me. But here it is, my last rant.

The polls are even and it's too close too call, except one thing that everyone seems to agree on. No one had properly polled the youth of America. This is mainly because pollsters don't call cell phones and they don't generally question first time voters. This means that this election might actually be decided by us. It has never been more important for young people to vote. WE ARE THE DECIDING FACTOR. So please, if you can vote, VOTE tomorrow(today). The entire planet is counting on us. Oh, and after you vote, there's a big party at my house and you are all invited. BYOB and please take your shoes off before entering. If Kerry wins, it'll be an all nighter. If Bush wins, there will be plenty of Valium for everyone."

Best wishes, Fat Mike

Well I've been wondering for months what Fat Mike's motive was for getting involved with PunkVoter, getting kids to use their right to vote and not waste it or getting rid of Bush and now I know the answer. I also wish they hadn't named it PunkVoter, the name gives out a misconseption about the groups political neutralness, by that I mean it sounds like they just want to get people (mainly punks) exercising their right to vote, when they are obviously siding with one candidate. But anyway it will all be over soon one way or another.

P.S. I guess Fat Mike won't be doing PunkVoter again in 4 years time then.

[wishtowish]

to all the americans. good luck with this election and im praying you guys have a much better ride with whoever gets elected tonight.you guys deserve and need it .
peace

[BrandNew20]

this thread is going to be huge....on a related note, I hope that Kerry can pull this out tonight.

[JIMMYateEARTH]

I encourage anyone to vote but if you are uninformed or just voting for a canidate cause someone told you do the stay away from the ballot
if you are still undecied then please don't vote

IGNORANCE is a DANGEROUS WEAPON

[JIMMYateEARTH]

oh yeah I forgot let's go W

4 more years

[venus/bacchus]

I encourage anyone to vote but if you are uninformed or just voting for a canidate cause someone told you do the stay away from the ballot
if you are still undecied then please don't vote

IGNORANCE is a DANGEROUS WEAPON
It most definitely is a dangerous weapon, but P.Diddy seems to want it to spread like wildfire.

[JIMMYateEARTH]

It most definitely is a dangerous weapon, but P.Diddy seems to want it to spread like wildfire.

thanks for agreeing and your avatar is awesome I love that movie
"would you say I have a plethora of pinatia's? "

Vote Bush

[L-dawg]

i voted for kerry, but right now i have never been so proud to be an american. I look at the news and see how long people are waiting in lines to cast there vote. It makes me think that everyone does actually care and that this election means something to everyone. It doesn't matter who you vote for as long as you vote. This is a great day for americans everywhere lets just keep it going till the polls close.

[PunkRocks]

My friend posted this on the john kerry forum and I couldn't agree more with her:


I've never been in a forum before but I feel compelled to write to you. As a Canadian I am perplexed by many things about America but voting by party is a major point. In a poll during our elections most Canadians stated that they vote for the best candidate not a party. As your neighbour I beg any of you that call yourselves Republican because your parents were or are, or your grandparents or whatever the case - just to vote for the best candidate, John Kerry. Being north of the border I am not lucky enough to vote in your election even though the repercussions of your election will be felt here. I feel deeply connected to what happens to your great nation but when it comes down to it, I cannot help you make the necessary changes that are needed to protect both of our countries. In the age of NAFTA our two countries could hardly be closer - for this reason I need to remind you of the flood of evidence that proves that your current President is a 'disaster'. You simply need to see what the rest of the world does. Your President attacked a country that did not threaten you, did not attack you and claimed to do it to disarm it of weapons it did not have. Your President told you that the American troops would be greeted by Iraq with open arms but instead your president has cost you lives - almost 15,000 American lives. Your President can not supply flu vaccines to the elderly or children. Canada is attempting to assist you with our surplus. You cannot afford prescription drugs. We have train loads of elderly and ailing Americans coming to Toronto to see a doctor and have their prescriptions changed by Canadian doctors in order to receive fair prices for their medication. Your President has not accepted blame for the no-win war you are engaged in, or for lying to you. Everytime I read a poll as to why people will vote for Bush they say it's because he will be the stronger leader in war. Perhaps it's because Canadians are peace keepers we find this statement to be the most ridiculous. The goal should be to avoid war. Protecting yourselves is important I agree but provoking a war is insane. So as your neighbour if you are a so-called Republican or you are still undecided I am asking you to vote for John Kerry not just for your sake but for ours. Our fate is in your hands. Please don't let us down.



KERRY '04!!!!!!!


15,000 lives lost? What?

[popdisaster00]

my highschool is so god damn republican.

[PunkRocks]

hey.
I'm not from the USA, but as you probably know, the rest of the world is really watching america for this election. I'm from the UK, and i'm glued. i wish i could vote.
I urge everyone to please please vote. if u wanna vote bush, do it, if you wanna vote kerry do it, etc...but just vote whatever happens.
Point is, this election needs to be the voice of america as a whole. Not the voice of all 30- somethings etc.
I urge you all to go and vote, and use the freedom you were granted to pick who you want to vote for.
Don't listen to the tv, or Michael Moore, well, do listen to them, but know its all bullshit, inform your own conscience and vote. please guys. I dont wanna see anything happen like 9/11 again, and i really want america's people to stand up for themselves.

Spooky2k/Dan

p.s: if u don't want to vote, or cant decide, then dont vote. simple as. no one should harrass you for this.

Dude I want to hug you for being the first non-American to demonstrate common sense and impartialness to this all. Thank you!

[Lueda Alia]

15,000 lives lost? What?

oops, it was supposed to be: 1,500.

I'll edit it now. =)

[rememberrightno]

Vote for whoever the fuck you believe in, not who some random people on message boards tell you to.

Couldnt be said better, develope your own opinion not Jasons and your favorite bands opinions

[alackofcolor]

Vote Kerry. Bush has done nothing to this country but fuck it up.

[Just_Insane]

Election Day is tomorrow and so I find myself wondering, how many people in the US are tired of having a man in the White House who has not taken responsibility for the problems that have arisen under his watch? I wonder how many people in the US have noticed that instead of acting like a leader, Mr. Bush has done what cowards, cheaters, and lazy people do when faced with crisis, he’s made excuses. There are countless reasons for me to be disgusted with Mr. Bush, but more then anything I am sick of listening to a man who blames EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING but himself for the misfortunes of the USA! He blames Clinton, 911, the list goes on and on…

In case you haven’t noticed Bush slinking away from owning responsibility for the misfortunes that have fallen upon the US under his watch, I’d like to take this opportunity to point out a few examples before you pull down that voting lever this Tuesday. For starters, Mr. Bush has not taken ANY responsibility for 911, the most horrific and brutal terrorist attack EVER against the US. More then that, he has NEVER apologized to the American people for 911 even though he was vacationing for weeks directly before the 911 attacks, even though it was during that vacation, on Aug 6th, that he was handed a presidential daily briefing entitled, “Bin Laden Determined To Strike In US”; even though he all but ignored pleas from the out going Clinton administration to take terrorism and al Qaeda seriously, even though he cut funding for intelligence and terrorism when he came into office, he did not meet with his anti-terrorism czar until September of 2001, and Osama bin Laden is STILL FREE!

The president has not apologized for the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq even though a record number of people around the world protested pre-invasion because they had the vision to see that Iraq would become the quagmire it is today. To date Mr. Bush has not taken responsibility for the following: the war has cost over 200 billion US tax dollars, over 1100 US soldiers lives, over 8000 US soldiers wounded, and over 100,000 Iraqi civilian lives, according to a recent study conducted by Johns Hopkins U, Columbia U, and the Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. On top of that, more US soldiers are dying per month as the war continues, and as pointed out by CBS’s 60 Minutes only last night, American troops in Iraq- the men and women Mr. Bush supposedly loves so much – do not have the proper equipment to stay alive or conduct routine convey duty. (Remember the unit who only a week ago refused to go on convey duty? They said they refused because their lack of proper equipment and support almost guaranteed that it would be like going on a suicide mission!)

Mr. Bush has not taken responsibility for the out sourcing of and loss of millions of jobs since he took office, the largest deficit in history, and an energy scandal involving Enron that was made possible by the Bush Regime’s willingness to let Enron and other billion dollar energy players write this country’s current energy policy.

The list of disasters and corruption under this Regime’s watch is almost impossible to comprehend and Mr. Bush has refused to take responsibility or apologize for ANY OF IT!

Most people I know who are considering voting for Bush tell me it’s because of his ability to fight terrorism. This always leaves me baffled for reasons already discussed. On top of that, since 911 all his Regime have managed to do is invade two third-world nations and create hundreds of thousands more enemies of the USA; enemies who as a result of Bush Regime policy are more angry then ever and more determined then ever to strike at the US, which they will eventually succeed in doing no matter how many bombs are dropped on Iraq or billions of dollars spent on homeland security.

I do NOT think John Kerry is the answer to our problems, but I think he IS a necessary start! I want someone in office who understands that it’s the president’s responsibility to take fault for what happens on his watch! I want a president who can admit to making a mistake and change course, instead of denying that anything is wrong as he drives us deeper into the abyss. I want a president that is going to change the direction of US foreign policy, instead fueling the flames of US foreign policy that is responsible for creating enemies of the USA in the first place. And someday, hopefully not too long from now, I want a president who understands that you beat Osama bin Laden NOT by dropping bombs on defenseless people in Afghanistan and Iraq, but instead by dropping schools, hospitals, and food on them.

Mr. Bush has not done what leaders do; he’s done what rouges do. He’s made excuses again and again for the misfortunes that have fallen upon the US under his watch. I’m tired of his excuses. I’m tired of people not looking at the situation facing our country from a rationale point of view and accepting solutions that any schoolyard bully could offer. I’m tired of young people in the military telling me at shows and through letters that they are being shipped off to Iraq for what they know is an unjust and pointless war. I hope you’re tired of fear mongering, I hope you’re tired of excuses! I hope that you will get out and vote tomorrow! If you’re not old enough to vote, I hope that you’ll encourage those who can to do so. Good luck and keep hope alive!

Peace-Love-Unity, Justin Sane XOXO


Cause it's good and you should read it to be informed of everything, and 99% of the people on this site would never go to the anti-flag site and actually read this. Please go vote at least and you probably know this but "If you encounter any problems voting call toll free 1-866-OUR-VOTE" damnit. Haha see how much i care about you americans.

[PunkRocks]

Election Day is tomorrow and so I find myself wondering, how many people in the US are tired of having a man in the White House who has not taken responsibility for the problems that have arisen under his watch? I wonder how many people in the US have noticed that instead of acting like a leader, Mr. Bush has done what cowards, cheaters, and lazy people do when faced with crisis, he’s made excuses. There are countless reasons for me to be disgusted with Mr. Bush, but more then anything I am sick of listening to a man who blames EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING but himself for the misfortunes of the USA! He blames Clinton, 911, the list goes on and on…

In case you haven’t noticed Bush slinking away from owning responsibility for the misfortunes that have fallen upon the US under his watch, I’d like to take this opportunity to point out a few examples before you pull down that voting lever this Tuesday. For starters, Mr. Bush has not taken ANY responsibility for 911, the most horrific and brutal terrorist attack EVER against the US. More then that, he has NEVER apologized to the American people for 911 even though he was vacationing for weeks directly before the 911 attacks, even though it was during that vacation, on Aug 6th, that he was handed a presidential daily briefing entitled, “Bin Laden Determined To Strike In US”; even though he all but ignored pleas from the out going Clinton administration to take terrorism and al Qaeda seriously, even though he cut funding for intelligence and terrorism when he came into office, he did not meet with his anti-terrorism czar until September of 2001, and Osama bin Laden is STILL FREE!

The president has not apologized for the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq even though a record number of people around the world protested pre-invasion because they had the vision to see that Iraq would become the quagmire it is today. To date Mr. Bush has not taken responsibility for the following: the war has cost over 200 billion US tax dollars, over 1100 US soldiers lives, over 8000 US soldiers wounded, and over 100,000 Iraqi civilian lives, according to a recent study conducted by Johns Hopkins U, Columbia U, and the Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. On top of that, more US soldiers are dying per month as the war continues, and as pointed out by CBS’s 60 Minutes only last night, American troops in Iraq- the men and women Mr. Bush supposedly loves so much – do not have the proper equipment to stay alive or conduct routine convey duty. (Remember the unit who only a week ago refused to go on convey duty? They said they refused because their lack of proper equipment and support almost guaranteed that it would be like going on a suicide mission!)

Mr. Bush has not taken responsibility for the out sourcing of and loss of millions of jobs since he took office, the largest deficit in history, and an energy scandal involving Enron that was made possible by the Bush Regime’s willingness to let Enron and other billion dollar energy players write this country’s current energy policy.

The list of disasters and corruption under this Regime’s watch is almost impossible to comprehend and Mr. Bush has refused to take responsibility or apologize for ANY OF IT!

Most people I know who are considering voting for Bush tell me it’s because of his ability to fight terrorism. This always leaves me baffled for reasons already discussed. On top of that, since 911 all his Regime have managed to do is invade two third-world nations and create hundreds of thousands more enemies of the USA; enemies who as a result of Bush Regime policy are more angry then ever and more determined then ever to strike at the US, which they will eventually succeed in doing no matter how many bombs are dropped on Iraq or billions of dollars spent on homeland security.

I do NOT think John Kerry is the answer to our problems, but I think he IS a necessary start! I want someone in office who understands that it’s the president’s responsibility to take fault for what happens on his watch! I want a president who can admit to making a mistake and change course, instead of denying that anything is wrong as he drives us deeper into the abyss. I want a president that is going to change the direction of US foreign policy, instead fueling the flames of US foreign policy that is responsible for creating enemies of the USA in the first place. And someday, hopefully not too long from now, I want a president who understands that you beat Osama bin Laden NOT by dropping bombs on defenseless people in Afghanistan and Iraq, but instead by dropping schools, hospitals, and food on them.

Mr. Bush has not done what leaders do; he’s done what rouges do. He’s made excuses again and again for the misfortunes that have fallen upon the US under his watch. I’m tired of his excuses. I’m tired of people not looking at the situation facing our country from a rationale point of view and accepting solutions that any schoolyard bully could offer. I’m tired of young people in the military telling me at shows and through letters that they are being shipped off to Iraq for what they know is an unjust and pointless war. I hope you’re tired of fear mongering, I hope you’re tired of excuses! I hope that you will get out and vote tomorrow! If you’re not old enough to vote, I hope that you’ll encourage those who can to do so. Good luck and keep hope alive!

Peace-Love-Unity, Justin Sane XOXO


Cause it's good and you should read it to be informed of everything, and 99% of the people on this site would never go to the anti-flag site and actually read this. Please go vote at least and you probably know this but "If you encounter any problems voting call toll free 1-866-OUR-VOTE" damnit. Haha see how much i care about you americans.

How could you support a man who supported Bush completely until he realized that he could be popular by not supporting Bush?

[kantigi_yera]

why would anyone in their right mind vote bush?

[make_this_hurt]

Kerry isn't the best answer to our problems.

But Bush sure as hell ain't the solution.

Vote for who you want. Just be informed.

KERRY '04

[Just_Insane]

How could you support a man who supported Bush completely until he realized that he could be popular by not supporting Bush?


hahaha ummmmm WHAT!?!?!?!?!

[Just_Insane]

why would anyone in their right mind vote bush?

Out of fear man, just like germany did when they voted for hitler in the 1930's. There economy was poor and everything was shitty, when a man that had "all the solutions" all of a sudden came and enough people bought it, lets blame everything on the jews damnit!(terrorists!)

[kantigi_yera]

but bush dones't have economic solutions, he was the guy who bankrupted the treasurey and screwed your economy in the first place. I'm not saying that Kerry is a better candidate but he's certainly the lesser of two evils....surely?

[SundaeBest]

Being form Kali, my vote is pretty much useless.......and although I favor kerry in the less of 2 evils argument....Im gonna vote nader, I figured Id help them out with the popular vote and force the real parties to look at issues that have long been ignored; rather than throw away a vote that is going to vote democratic anyway.


Im off the the voting booth, hope you all vote, regardless of your political ideologies, its about using your god given right to expression, so do it!

[Sumblinksk8er]

How could you support a man who supported Bush completely until he realized that he could be popular by not supporting Bush?

because hes not Bush

[kantigi_yera]

because hes not Bush

damn straight

[.circa.survive.]

Out of fear man, just like germany did when they voted for hitler in the 1930's. There economy was poor and everything was shitty, when a man that had "all the solutions" all of a sudden came and enough people bought it, lets blame everything on the jews damnit!(terrorists!)


i guess you have no idea what you are talking about. you can´t compare the nazi situation with the election we have now. these were quite different reasons.
even though it´s not my home country it´s like the most exciting election this decade. and i just hope kerry wins. i couldn´t believe how people could vote this governement once again after all they did. yeah. i´m pissed off because of all the "anti-bush" thing.where everyone writes a "political" song just because it´s cool not because they have anything new to say.
kerry couldn´t make it any worse than bush did the past 4 years.

[Greg Thimmes]

Hello...Im from Delware. 2 ELECTORIAL VOTES i believe. We may be small, but hell 2 is better than nothin. After long debates with friends and fellow staff memebers. I have decided that I will go and vote this year. For whom you say. Who ever wins. The winner is the person who had my vote ;)

[The Bled 13]

my god, arcadian said something smart. voting propaganda does nothing. look past all the fucking stickers and signs, and educate yourself before voting. but do vote.

although i want to say that john kerry looks like a date rapist. hahah!!!

And ANY credentials you thought you had when out the window with the "date rapist" comment.

Voting propaganda is just that. Propaganda. It's more of like a "motivation" to get out their and do something. They present the facts/opinions and as an American you are supposed to read more then one newspaper, visit more than one webpage that has information. You're just as ignorant as the apathetic voter if you fail to do that. You aren't say anything new, you're just beating an old idea that is really annoying to be honest.

[The Bled 13]

Fuck partisanship. It's ironic because the people that are bashing Punkvoter.com are just that, to partisan and ignorant to look into the other side. Respect peoples opinions and stop being a god damn hypocrite.

[Just_Insane]

i guess you have no idea what you are talking about. you can´t compare the nazi situation with the election we have now. these were quite different reasons.
even though it´s not my home country it´s like the most exciting election this decade. and i just hope kerry wins. i couldn´t believe how people could vote this governement once again after all they did. yeah. i´m pissed off because of all the "anti-bush" thing.where everyone writes a "political" song just because it´s cool not because they have anything new to say.
kerry couldn´t make it any worse than bush did the past 4 years.

Infact you can a little. That's what Bush plays on, he uses the fear and scares the people up in the U.S.A with terrorist colours and media and everything. It's not that hard to see really once you look...then he tries to make himself look like the man with all the answers and solutions(even though they're ignorant, uniformed and wrong), just like hitler did. Heil Bush!

[Frank Giaramita]

Hello...Im from Delware. 2 ELECTORIAL VOTES i believe. We may be small, but hell 2 is better than nothin. After long debates with friends and fellow staff memebers. I have decided that I will go and vote this year. For whom you say. Who ever wins. The winner is the person who had my vote ;)

Yeah, you didnt say how you plan to choose the candidate who gets your vote though....

[The Bled 13]

I'm on the Beastie Boys' mailing list and their newest email this morning basically told kids to vote for John Kerry and not Bush. It's somewhat ridiculous that they are trying to manipulate their fans. They should have just said: Vote. Fat Mike (on the other hand) is a completely different case. I just can't wait to see his reaction when Bush wins.

Manipulate? What the fuck are you talking about? How the hell is that manipulation? They are simply EXPRESSING THEIR OPINION! Do they expect every fan to go out their and vote for Kerry? Fuck no, they are just doing their part and doing/saying something.

Why the fuck is this such a big stink with republicans? Is that you guys realize you are very uncool and half the world fucking hates you? And the best celebrity you can get to support you is fucking that block head whore Britney Spears? What the fuck is it with you people?

I have an opinion - vote for John Kerry.

Imagine if you told that to everyone, just keep your opinions to yourself. What kind of government would this be now? Well Dubya once said a Dictatorship would be a hell of a lot easier.. YEEE HAWWW GET EM COWBOY!

[kantigi_yera]

Infact you can a little. That's what Bush plays on, he uses the fear and scares the people up in the U.S.A with terrorist colours and media and everything. It's not that hard to see really once you look...then he tries to make himself look like the man with all the answers and solutions(even though they're ignorant, uniformed and wrong), just like hitler did. Heil Bush!

these only difference i can see is that Hitler's nazi regime was motivated by hatred, the fear aspect in terms of voting, in my opinion, is very similar.

[The Bled 13]

I mean, doesn't anybody realize.. that more than half the world hates Bush? Are they fucking morons?

I find that hard to believe when some of the people that are saying that come from some of the toughest schools in Europe. Are you calling them dumbshits? I sure as hell hope not.

[Just_Insane]

these only difference i can see is that Hitler's nazi regime was motivated by hatred, the fear aspect in terms of voting, in my opinion, is very similar.

And Bush regime is motivated by money and greed

[The Bled 13]

How many more bridges are you going to let Cheney/Bush destroy?

[kantigi_yera]

And Bush regime is motivated by money and greed

and oil

[X__inhope]

How could you support a man who supported Bush completely until he realized that he could be popular by not supporting Bush?

you are obviously a moron and/or know nothing about politics. everyone keeps saying that... about kerry voting to go ahead with the war.

kerry voted with his party. like most do.

[.circa.survive.]

Infact you can a little. That's what Bush plays on, he uses the fear and scares the people up in the U.S.A with terrorist colours and media and everything. It's not that hard to see really once you look...then he tries to make himself look like the man with all the answers and solutions(even though they're ignorant, uniformed and wrong), just like hitler did. Heil Bush!


yeah i see your point.but i think the situation is a bit different.i know of all his lies to keep the people afraid. but the reason why the germans voted hitler was a different one. they had like "no other choice".they had no work , no food just to give a few examples. bush promises none of these things . he tries to catch the votes by his "terror-politic".i know that america has a lot poor parts but it isn´t as worse as it was in germany at this time.

[Just_Insane]

yeah i see your point.but i think the situation is a bit different.i know of all his lies to keep the people afraid. but the reason why the germans voted hitler was a different one. they had like "no other choice".they had no work , no food just to give a few examples. bush promises none of these things . he tries to catch the votes by his "terror-politic".i know that america has a lot poor parts but it isn´t as worse as it was in germany at this time.

Yeah i know....But there were other parties...right? Yeah Bush promises "homeland security". Which is dumb really cause he's the one who creates insecurity to get the votes. And i don't know too good how it was in Germany in the 1930's, but actually i watched a lot of documentaries now lately about U.S.A. and at some places it was really really poor and people had very bad lifes. They also talked about how there hardly is no middle class in the U.S now and how the gap grows.

[left_punk]

"Vote for that wealthy, war-mongering, earth raping, pre-selected canidate or that wealthy, war-mongering, earth raping presidential incumbent"

Charles Bukowski -
The difference between a Democracy and a Dictatorship is that in a Democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a Dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.

[The Bled 13]

But sitting around and doing nothing about = an ass fucking anyways. So I voted, because I know Kerry can do a better job.

[make_this_hurt]

you are obviously a moron and/or know nothing about politics. everyone keeps saying that... about kerry voting to go ahead with the war.

kerry voted with his party. like most do.

Yes, he did. But he also didn't vote for the war. He voted to give our President the authorization to go to war. Very different things.

[Lueda Alia]

How could you support a man who supported Bush completely until he realized that he could be popular by not supporting Bush?
okay, that shows just how much you know about john kerry. you should do a little research. because you'd be surprised. john kerry didn't fully support the president on this war. i heard john kerry's speech yesterday for the first time.

look here:

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html


here's what he said

"I'm giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to Americans in the recent days--to Work with United Nation's Council to adopt a new resolution setting out tough and immediate inspection requirements, and to act with our allies at our side if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force. If he fails to do so, I will be among the first to speak out."


AND

"If we do wind up to war with Iraq, it is imperative that we do so with others in the international community, unless there is a showing of a grave imminent--and I emphasize "imminent"--to this country which requires this President to respond in a way that protects our immediate national security needs".


THERE YOU GO.

[Badgers08]

voted Bush...I guess im not punk rawk anymore

[venus/bacchus]

How many more bridges are you going to let Cheney/Bush destroy?
How many bridges did they destroy in the first place?

[GAD_guy]

I'm gonna shove my jimmy through yo mouf roof. So get yo mothafuckin ass in the votin boof.

[DEELER]

If you can, I would suggest everyone votes using paper ballots instead of electronic voting machines. The corruption and errors found on using electronic voting machines is enormus. It is your right to request a provisional ballot at the polls if you don't want to use the machines. For more information on the problems with electronic voting, read Black Box Voting by Bev Harris. You can download it for free here: www.blackboxvoting.com

[BrandNew20]

How many bridges did they destroy in the first place?

after September 11th, we had almost world wide sympathy(with the exception of a few middle eastern nations) would you say that we have sympathy currently with the Public of as many nations?

[[Brendan]]

Fuck partisanship. It's ironic because the people that are bashing Punkvoter.com are just that, to partisan and ignorant to look into the other side. Respect peoples opinions and stop being a god damn hypocrite.
I'm the only person that 'bashed' Punkvoter in this thread. All I said was that they should have picked a more appropriate name than Punkvoter such as 'Lets get Bush out of the whitehouse' or something like that. The name Punkvoter implies that they're morals are to get kids out to vote for whoever they want to vote for, whereas when you visit the site it's just aload of anti-Bush stuff.

Now I'm not pro-Kerry and I'm also not pro-Bush so I feel for every American that has to make such a difficult choice for who to vote for, because neither of them are what you'd class as 'ideal candidates'. It reminds me of The Simpsons - Tree House of Horror VII episode where Clinton and Dole are replaced by the evil aliens Kang and Kodos. The people of Springfield end up finding out just before the election that they are both fakes but they still have to vote for one of them because a third party vote would just be throwing the vote away.

I think Fred Gallagher (http://www.megatokyo.com/) over at MegaTokyo (http://www.megatokyo.com/) sums up my opinion best.
Even those of you who are not from the US are probably aware that today, November 2nd, is the day those of us here in the states choose who will be our President for the next four years. I have been very quiet about this race, and even now I don't feel it my place to air my political views. I, unlike some people and organizations, do not believe in the promotion of my own political views by any means nessisary. I fully respect *everyone's* right to their own opinion. I have seen a lack of respect for mine. I have been told that it would be preferable that I didn't vote because I was voting in a way that they didn't agree with.

I don't care who you vote for, but make sure that today you vote. Make your own choices, don't let others choose for you. Use your head.

[Just_Insane]

By Benjamin Kerstein

On the Election

I suppose the dreaded moment has arrived for me to jot down a few notes about the election. I suppose its fairly clear by now that I am not a Kerry supporter, but I think its worth a brief explanation as to why. Firstly, I don't think Kerry understands the situation we are currently involved in nor how to deal with it. I come from Massachusetts and I remember Kerry from way back. In my opinion, he has always been a notable intellectual and political mediocrity. The claim that he is a "flip-flopper" is, of course, electioneering, but there is a strong element of truth in it. This being said, I think Kerry does have something of a default position, a political center of gravity, as it were, and this has always been with the McGovernite Left wing of the Democratic Party. Taking this into consideration, a Kerry administration would be problematic not only because of the convictions of the man himself but also because of what he will bring with him into office. As others have noted, Kerry's political debts as well as his natural sympathies will undoubtedly lead to a resurgence of power and influence for the extreme Left of the Democratic Party; the Left with which Kerry stood when he slandered (and I do not use the term lightly) his fellow soldiers after Vietnam, the Left with which Kerry voted throughout the Reagan years in opposition to the Cold War, and the Left whose insidious falsehoods Kerry has echoed on many occasions when he felt their support waning; for instance, when Howard Dean appeared to be beating him to the nomination. Kerry's fetishistic approach to Europe is also a severe worry, and this goes to a deeper question: Kerry's intellectual mediocrity. I personally cannot understand the constant harping on Kerry's well-informed and nuanced understanding of the world; in my opinion, his grasp of foreign policy is short-sighted, close-minded, reactive, and almost shockingly unimaginative. He seems congenitally unable to grasp the realities of the world we live in today, and appears mired (as are his advisors, Richard Holbrooke most notable among them) in the elitist Left worldview that Europe's approach to foreign affairs is inherently superior to the American, all use of military force represents a failure to adequately employ diplomacy, and all problems in the world have a rational explanation and can be alleviated through the proper rearrangements of the international system. This way of thinking was outdated by 1945 and it hasn't aged well since. It certainly will do nothing to combat radical Islam and its use of terror and, in all likelihood, will not even succeed in the shallowest goal of improving America's image in Europe and the Islamic world. As far as I can tell, Kerry's grasp of the war on terror ends with Bin Laden and Al Queda; he does not see it as a broader struggle between competing ideologies and worldviews. This failure to formulate a "Kerry doctrine" to answer the Bush Doctrine is telling indeed; Kerry has had more than enough time to formulate a conception of the War on Terror from the Left (I refer again to Paul Berman's excellent Terror and Liberalism for an outline of such a conception) but he has not done so. He has rather left us with a series of piecemeal - and often obviously disingenuous - criticisms which, taken together, seem to boil down to the fact that Kerry would have done everything differently and better than the president. Some of Kerry's criticism's may well be legitimate, but without any overriding counter-proposal to the Bush Doctrine, they have to be seen as spiteful, cheap, and unhelpful election year demagoguery rather than a genuine and workable politics of opposition. Is Kerry a pacifist? No, but he seems to have no discernible position on when and how to use force in a different way from the president. Is he soft on terrorism? Unfortunately, I would have to say yes, if only out of ignorance, lack of imagination, and the influence of a political base which is still mired in the passions of 1968. Is he a Chomskyite? No, but he has no answer to the Chomskyites, and in a confrontation like the one we face today, that makes all the difference.

All of this is, of course, merely anti-Kerry. Are there discernible and cogent reasons to support president Bush? In my opinion, the answer is absolutely yes. The president, while he is hardly without his flaws (I am among those who cringe when he speaks in public) has nonetheless displayed a level of political courage over the past few years which, combined with a shift in foreign policy outlook that, while not entirely his creation, he has made synonymous with his administration, bodes well for the inevitable confrontations with the future. Most importantly, the president, unlike Kerry, is not burdened with a quarter-century of deep skepticism and often outright hostility towards his own country and its society. This lack of ideological baggage, with which Kerry would be forced to struggle every second of his administration, has given Bush the ability to see beyond the narrow limits of American liberalism's grasp of the world, bounded, as it is, on one side by Vietnam and on the other by the cringing acquiescence to European scorn. If Bush has not formulated a visionary foreign policy shift to deal with Islamic terror, most notably in the elevation of democracy and liberty's spread to a primary foreign policy priority of the United States, he has nevertheless embraced it wholeheartedly and faced down opposition to it which would have annihilated a lesser president. I simply cannot imagine a Kerry administration facing down the combined opposition of France, Germany, the United Nations, and the Left wing of Kerry's own party. Bush, whether one disagrees with him or not, deserves credit for courage, conviction and determination to accomplish the imperatives of the moment.

None of this, of course, means anything if the president's ideas are not good ones. I believe they are good ones, and it is worth explaining why. In my view, the claims of so-called "realist" foreign policy analysts regarding the possibilities of democracy in the Middle East and beyond are both defeatist and fundamentally wrong. There is nothing "realistic" in the belief that the current state of affairs in this neck of the woods - with Israel the only democracy and the illiberal nature of neighboring regimes granted near ecstatic indulgence - is workable in the long term. Sooner or later, all of the Arab regimes will fall, the question is whether they will be reconstituted as Islamic theocracies or as liberal democracies. Radical Islam is working hard to ensure the former, we must work equally tirelessly to ensure the latter. It may be that it may not always be possible to do so, but it is imperative that this goal stand astride the commanding heights of American foreign policy priorities, as it does in the case of the Bush administration and which it unquestionably would not in a Kerry administration.

You have probably noted that I have written nothing about the domestic policies of the two candidates. While this may be a flaw of mine, I simply do not consider domestic issues a priority in this election. We are living in a time more fateful than perhaps any of us have fully grasped, and the way for America to seize its fate and the fate of the world lies in that idea of liberty which has served us so well in the past and may yet still represent the first, best hope for the rest of the world as well. One candidate in this election understands this, the other does not. I believe that all of us ought to vote accordingly.

Whatever your voting intentions, democracy in action is a sublime event. Enjoy yourselves and, win or lose, savor the day.



Well first of all Kerry is definately not left. No president ever in the united states has been leftish. It's the chocie between capitalism and capitalism that's just how it is, a choice between extremly bad capitalism or just capitalism. Second of all you talk about islamic fundamental terrorgroups. Which is quite ironic and funny, cause all these so called "fundamental terrorgroups" are all created by the U.S. and Bush. And actually i'm reading about fundamentalism and religion and the U.S election in Religion C class right now. Fundamentalism was something that started in the U.S. just around where Bush grew up, by fundamental christians like Bush himself. And i don't know what to call thousands of dead innocent Iraqies and americans, if not terrorism. Another kind of terrorism though, state-terrorism. That's also how he gets his votes i believe, he scares people up and creates an feeling of fear and insecurity...then he comes of as the resulute solution to it, when infact he's the one creating the problems. And it's also funny how that is all you talk about, islamic fundamentalists, terrorists, and on and on...you seem scared to death and i'd say that's why you want to vote for Bush. And with Bush in power you create new terrorists and new islamic fundamentalists every day, and you can't win a war on terrorism it's impossible. You can prevent it from happening though by not making enemies with the whole damn world. Bush doesn't give a damn though, he makes millions or billions of money by keeping people scared, he's screwing you all. Iraq had no weapons of mass-destruction and was no threat to the U.S....they had oil though.. there hasn't been any terrorattack to the U.S since 9/11 but still the terror alert thing still goes all the time and is high and never goes down. Plus Bush has no ideas or solutions about anything, he just causes the problems and makes them worse.

Don't vote out of fear, vote with your own thinking brain that all of you actually have.

[saintjoel]

i dont know itf this got said already cuz im not gonna bother reading this thread but the daily show is gonna be on at 10 eastern time, so if youre on the pacific like me its on at 7

[Jesse2]

Why don't you back some of this information up? Bush is a fundamental christian? And he gets his votes by creating insecurity? Is that what got him into office 4 years ago? Bush certainly doesn't give a damn about us. Why is he running for President then? Yeah there hasn't been a terror attack in the US since 9/11, but if you knew anything about the system you would know it's not just about the mainland, it's about interests around the world. Bush never has any ideas or solutions? WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS? You're saying all of this, but not backing it up.

Obviously he didn't use fighting terrorism as his platform 4 years ago, but he sure does use 9/11 to promote himself. He used the overwhelming patriotism the whole country had after those attacks to rush into that war on Iraq. And hey what do you know, we attacked the only country in the "axis of evil" without WMD's. If you knew anything about terrorist attacks, you'd know that just because it hasn't happened since then doesn't mean we've won. Their attacks are almost always few and far between. The fact that we haven't been attacked since then doesn't make me feel the least bit safer. If you are so informed you should enlighten the rest of us on his campaign promises in 2000, and just how many of those have kept. I know that it is common for Presidents to not keep campaign promises (in fact, only James K. Polk ever accomplished everything he promised), but from a historical standpoint, Bush's term was hardly a success.

[not_important]

i voted for bush and i'm damn proud of it

[SundaeBest]

Why don't you back some of this information up? Bush is a fundamental christian? And he gets his votes by creating insecurity? Is that what got him into office 4 years ago? Bush certainly doesn't give a damn about us. Why is he running for President then? Yeah there hasn't been a terror attack in the US since 9/11, but if you knew anything about the system you would know it's not just about the mainland, it's about interests around the world. Bush never has any ideas or solutions? WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS? You're saying all of this, but not backing it up.


Ummmmm...Bush IS a fundamental Christian, or as close as you can get to being one without acquiring the label (positions on...abortion, stem cell research...etc) And it would be naive to state that people run for office because they care about people, if he cared so much about Americans he would put half as much effort into domestic policy as he is putting in terrorizing foreign affairs. Interests around the world are financial interests, hence the point, he is in it for the money :p I been living in the United States the last 20+ years, and bush compares badly to past presidents, I am neither republican nor democrat, but I could still name 5 republican presidents who have done a much better job than bush.

P.s. If you are gonna bash somebody for stating facts without information, maybe you should do the same.

[SundaeBest]

Money had to be shifted from things such as education in order to better protect our country...Bush's campaign wasn't a success, not at all, because we HAD to go to war...


Money had to be shifted from education? Education is already under funded as it is, and yet, every time we need money they are the first to suffer. We did NOT need to shift money, the U.S. spends more on military than the next 3 nations, and more than its top 8 enemy nations combined.... why do we need to bolster it?

Lastly, we DID need to go to war, with Afghanistan! Not Iraq. Afghanistan was not a costly war, Iraq was both costly and unnecessary, the repercussions far outweigh the only benefit which was economic gain.

[foreverfallen]

I don't care who you vote for, JUST VOTE, bitches.

[turtlefootrx]

I agree he hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what he promised, but honestly, his priorities had to change after 9/11. Wouldn't you agree? Money had to be shifted from things such as education in order to better protect our country. Don't bring up the WMD's again, because Kerry also believed Iraq had them and had the same intelligence Bush had. I wasn't saying I feel safer, I was answering a direct question that Sweden posed. Bush's campaign wasn't a success, not at all, because we HAD to go to war, and we're now spending money on more safety instead of making our own country safer. This was not Bush's fault though. Nobody wanted 9/11 to happen, not even Bush, not Kerry, nobody in America.

so its okay that the 'no child left behind' act that was part of bushs whole 2000 campaign is being drained of its resources?

[Jesse2]

Money had to be shifted from education? Education is already under funded as it is, and yet, every time we need money they are the first to suffer. We did NOT need to shift money, the U.S. spends more on military than the next 3 nations, and more than its top 8 enemy nations combined.... why do we need to bolster it?

Lastly, we DID need to go to war, with Afghanistan! Not Iraq. Afghanistan was not a costly war, Iraq was both costly and unnecessary, the repercussions far outweigh the only benefit which was economic gain.

touche

[Jason Tate]

http://www.guampdn.com/news/updates/9807.html

[hopesinlight]

my law and justice teacher told us about a bumper sticker he saw, it said "practice abstinance, say no to dick and bush." i thought it was pretty funny, especially since it was one of my teachers saying it.

[westsidas2000]

i voted for bush and i'm damn proud of it
good for you. if i get drafted and die, i'm sure it's nothing on your conscience.

[jynxedheart]

kerry is punk and bush is emo......we all know which one died out in the end

[aolsux]

kerry is punk and bush is emo......we all know which one died out in the end
funny way to put it

[Scott Weber]

good for you. if i get drafted and die, i'm sure it's nothing on your conscience.

you're an ignorant fuck if you think a draft is going to happen with bush in office. he's been perfectly clear on his posistion. I hope to god you didn't vote today, because you're uninformed and you've bought into the complete bullshit you've read on the internet. it was a democratic bill to reinstate the draft, but its not going to happen either way.

[westsidas2000]

whaa??? that doesn't make any sense. sorry...like if you wanna say kerry is gonna die out then i guess you should call it hair metal??? or if you wanna say bush is gonna die out then i guess call it....Disco??

[ccsmanx]

I was disgusted last night when I watched MTV air the most bullshit Anti-Bush propaganda I have seen all night from 10 pm to 2 am, the NIGHT BEFORE the election. I am worried about this election because all of the ignorant kids out there are going to listen to MTV and shitty bands like Anti Flag that tell them its cool to vote against Bush. I have a bad feeling this election is gonna be decide by kids who vote for Kerry because its the hip thing to do. I'm disgusted with the bias liberal media and if you support it I am disgusted with you. And by the way, Bush has NEVER said there is going to be a draft. He has CONSISTENTLY said there will not be a draft, so honestly, stop spreading these lies that may possibly be a deciding factor in the future of our country. If you are ignorant to the facts, please don't try and persuade anyone to vote. You are an idiot.

[Just_Insane]

Why don't you back some of this information up? Bush is a fundamental christian? And he gets his votes by creating insecurity? Is that what got him into office 4 years ago? Bush certainly doesn't give a damn about us. Why is he running for President then? Yeah there hasn't been a terror attack in the US since 9/11, but if you knew anything about the system you would know it's not just about the mainland, it's about interests around the world. Bush never has any ideas or solutions? WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS? You're saying all of this, but not backing it up.

Well if you used your eyes and looked for yourself it wouldn't be that hard to see. He interprets the bible just like the islamic "fundamental" terrorists interpret the coran in an extreme way. Fuck, just look how he tries to change the laws and shit after what the bible says and wants everyone to live that way(homo-marriage e.t.c. womans right to control their own bodies) that's what fundamentalism is all about. And of course he gets his votes by creating insecurity and scaring people up, just like you are being 24/7 by him and the people who back him up, who are huge(media e.t.c., as chomsky once said the media is what the baton that the police once had to control people once was ). What got him into office in the first place was people's ignorance(people not voting) plus he had like billions of money backing him up, more then any president ever had and well then some cheating to. And on his time as president he's gotten fucking rich and made the companies that funded his presidental campaign and made him president fucking rich to. And no he really has NO IDEAS NO SOLUTION, nothing! It's all about terrorism, islamic fundamentalists and bla bla bla. but so where are they!? That's the only thing that can win him this election, keeping people scared. And you think he can protect you from what he creates and helped creating in the first place, and that doesn't even exist as much as he wants you to believe(No weapons of mass-destruction, iraq wasn't a threat at all still every day coffins with dead americans come to the U.S, and nothing has happened since 9/11...which he knew about but ignored and that's a fact). Still you think he's the solution. Fuck he hasn't even gotten Osama Bin Laden. He got Saddam Hussein though, who's done nothing to the U.S.

[westsidas2000]

you're an ignorant fuck if you think a draft is going to happen with bush in office. he's been perfectly clear on his posistion. I hope to god you didn't vote today, because you're uninformed and you've bought into the complete bullshit you've read on the internet. it was a democratic bill to reinstate the draft, but its not going to happen either way.
you mean the complete bullshit where bush said "there will be no draft if i get elected" or the bull shit where one of his advisors said "a draft actually weakens our military." ?
use your head, if bush plans to fight another war...which he undoubtedly will, i'm pretty sure a draft will have to be instated. I don't think i'm ignorant, i'm just a pussy who doesn't wanna get shot.

[ccsmanx]

he hasn't misinterpreted the Bible. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. And also, Suddam Hussein HAS done lots to the U.S.. He has been aiding terrorist organizations for years that are extremely anti-american. You think if we get Osama the threat of terrorism is completely gone? No you dumbfuck. There are still lots of terrorist organizations that hate us. Suddam funded a BIG chunk of those organizations. Bush is trying to take them all out instead of just one guy. By the way, answer this question...has there been an attack since September 11, 2001? Didn't think so...

[bigal00004]

so its okay that the 'no child left behind' act that was part of bushs whole 2000 campaign is being drained of its resources?
Exactly what I'm thinking, and I don't know about the rest of you, but in my state of MN, no child left behind is definetly hindering rather than helping our schools. We had a wonderful education system, and now it is being bogged down by Bush's NCLB.

If a vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism then a vote for Bush is a vote for facsism. Saying that the terrorist support Kerry is rediculous, how could you support a candidate that tells you that.

I voted for Kerry and I hope everyone here that is eligible votes.

By the way, someone said earlier that they had 2 electoral votes, well guess what. No state has less than 3 votes, so there's a bonus for you.

[Scott Weber]

you mean the complete bullshit where bush said "there will be no draft if i get elected" or the bull shit where one of his advisors said "a draft actually weakens our military." ?
use your head, if bush plans to fight another war...which he undoubtedly will, i'm pretty sure a draft will have to be instated. I don't think i'm ignorant, i'm just a pussy who doesn't wanna get shot.

you're "pretty sure" a draft will be instated. He "undoubtedly will" want to fight another war. You're being irrational and making snap judgements about the future. I don't want to go to war either, but work needs to be done. I believe in his cause.

[Jason Tate]

he hasn't misinterpreted the Bible. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. And also, Suddam Hussein HAS done lots to the U.S.. He has been aiding terrorist organizations for years that are extremely anti-american. You think if we get Osama the threat of terrorism is completely gone? No you dumbfuck. There are still lots of terrorist organizations that hate us. Suddam funded a BIG chunk of those organizations. Bush is trying to take them all out instead of just one guy. By the way, answer this question...has there been an attack since September 11, 2001? Didn't think so...
You let a book translated a million times (wrongly in most accounts), written by a bunch of different people years and years after the events happened, with most of the other stories that "don't fit" thrown out of it, control your thinking?

[atticusfinch]

Biggest election of this generation.

Still, whoever wins, we lose.

[Jason Tate]

you're "pretty sure" a draft will be instated. He "undoubtedly will" want to fight another war. You're being irrational and making snap judgements about the future. I don't want to go to war either, but work needs to be done. I believe in his cause.
"Read my lips: no new taxes" - GB.

Yah, I trust the things this family says.

"I'll use war as a last resort" - GWB
"We know where the wmds are" - GWB
"We'll get Osama; i promise" - GWM
"I don't worry about osama or really care" - GW

YAH! Let's believe it all!! Ask for a spoon next time you wanna swallow all this shit.

[saintjoel]

you're an ignorant fuck if you think a draft is going to happen with bush in office. he's been perfectly clear on his posistion. I hope to god you didn't vote today, because you're uninformed and you've bought into the complete bullshit you've read on the internet.

the beautiful thing about our our country is that everyone (ignorant or not) can vote in our elections, probably some people think youre ignorant for still believing everything bush has been "perfectly clear" on.

[westsidas2000]

you're "pretty sure" a draft will be instated. He "undoubtedly will" want to fight another war. You're being irrational and making snap judgements about the future. I don't want to go to war either, but work needs to be done. I believe in his cause.
hey, i don't want to get into a fight with such a prolific album reviewer as yourself. But you can't expect Bush to take his 195,300 total army reserves, without instating a draft, and get into a pillow fight with china and NK. Since when did candidates ever stick to campaign promises?

[bigal00004]

he hasn't misinterpreted the Bible. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. And also, Suddam Hussein HAS done lots to the U.S.. He has been aiding terrorist organizations for years that are extremely anti-american. You think if we get Osama the threat of terrorism is completely gone? No you dumbfuck. There are still lots of terrorist organizations that hate us. Suddam funded a BIG chunk of those organizations. Bush is trying to take them all out instead of just one guy. By the way, answer this question...has there been an attack since September 11, 2001? Didn't think so...
and how many years were between 9/11 and the previous terrorist attack. None come to mind, its not like a terrorist attack on US soil is a common occurance, therefore, your argument is flawed

[Jason Tate]

Exactly what I'm thinking, and I don't know about the rest of you, but in my state of MN, no child left behind is definetly hindering rather than helping our schools. We had a wonderful education system, and now it is being bogged down by Bush's NCLB.

If a vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism then a vote for Bush is a vote for facsism. Saying that the terrorist support Kerry is rediculous, how could you support a candidate that tells you that.

I voted for Kerry and I hope everyone here that is eligible votes.

By the way, someone said earlier that they had 2 electoral votes, well guess what. No state has less than 3 votes, so there's a bonus for you.
I'm curious what you would call the anthrax over here, or the Madrid bombing....

[Basketcase]

if Bush wins this, i wouldn't be surprised if he goes after North Korea. now that country has weapons. unlike Iraq. what a waste it was going into Iraq.

[Just_Insane]

he hasn't misinterpreted the Bible. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. And also, Suddam Hussein HAS done lots to the U.S.. He has been aiding terrorist organizations for years that are extremely anti-american. You think if we get Osama the threat of terrorism is completely gone? No you dumbfuck. There are still lots of terrorist organizations that hate us. Suddam funded a BIG chunk of those organizations. Bush is trying to take them all out instead of just one guy. By the way, answer this question...has there been an attack since September 11, 2001? Didn't think so...

Yeah but to make that into laws is fundamental and change the constitution because of the bible. And also U.S supported Saddam for a very long time but then suddenly he was the nr.1 enemy and Nr.1 terrorist.....hmm weird. Also there's no proof he has been aiding any terrorist organizations...although i don't doubt he has, i don't know. No i don't think getting Osama changes anything, but i DO think it's weird and bad by the world's number one "terrorist fighter" (haha) that he can't even catch one old man. Then also there is a reason why they hate you...cause i can't see any terrorists ever attacking Sweden e.t.c. Or even other countries ever. And no it hasn't

[bigal00004]

I'm curious what you would call the anthrax over here, or the Madrid bombing....
Tate, I think you quoted the wrong person

[Jason Tate]

Tate, I think you quoted the wrong person
I did :) Damnit.

Off to class. Then back to work.

[Scott Weber]

"Read my lips: no new taxes" - GB.

Yah, I trust the things this family says.

"I'll use war as a last resort" - GWB
"We know where the wmds are" - GWB
"We'll get Osama; i promise" - GWM
"I don't worry about osama or really care" - GW

YAH! Let's believe it all!! Ask for a spoon next time you wanna swallow all this shit.

haha. do I really need to go through and quote all the contradictions Kerry has posed? Because they are tenfold to Bush's. The man ripped into America for the Vietnam war. He WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT. His actions were unpatriotic. "Wrong War, Wrong Time." Now he supports the war. I'm sure you're well aware of the hundreds of issues that Kerry has voted for, and then against, and now supports because he does exactly what the American Public wants. And sadly, his situational politics may earn him a seat in office. once he's there, will he resort back to his old ways of doing whatever he feels? He may say he supports our troops now, but will he really? Or will he create another Vietnam situation where he yanks all the troops out immediatley, making america look weak and vunerable. John Kerry for president of France?

Kerry goes against what he's said hundreds of times, and you know that. If I need a spoon to swallow all of George W's contradictions, then you need a fucking ladel.

[Scott Weber]

the beautiful thing about our our country is that everyone (ignorant or not) can vote in our elections, probably some people think youre ignorant for still believing everything bush has been "perfectly clear" on.

this is a very good point, and it's why arguments like this are ultimately futile.

[Scott Weber]

hey, i don't want to get into a fight with such a prolific album reviewer as yourself. But you can't expect Bush to take his 195,300 total army reserves, without instating a draft, and get into a pillow fight with china and NK. Since when did candidates ever stick to campaign promises?

I'm not talking down to you, nor do I think i'm "special" by any means because I work here. I'm expressing my opinions, and you are yours. Don't take anything too seriously here. Me and you, me and Jason are going at it today! It's because we believe two different things. It doesn't mean I HATE you, it doesn't mean I don't respect you, I just get upset with what seem to be irrational and hasty assumptions. You have since proven you can back it up, so good for you. my mistake for doubting you. I'm not sure about your whole "Bush wants to take over the world" theory, but that's up to you. I'm not as pessimistic there.

[Jesse2]

he hasn't misinterpreted the Bible. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. And also, Suddam Hussein HAS done lots to the U.S.. He has been aiding terrorist organizations for years that are extremely anti-american. You think if we get Osama the threat of terrorism is completely gone? No you dumbfuck. There are still lots of terrorist organizations that hate us. Suddam funded a BIG chunk of those organizations. Bush is trying to take them all out instead of just one guy. By the way, answer this question...has there been an attack since September 11, 2001? Didn't think so...

So I may be waaaaay off base with it, but I guess I was under the impression the Bible was about tolerance and love, not hate and seperation.

Also, I think you must have been on vacation the day that they said Suddam had no ties to al-qaeda. Suddam did shit on his own, he wasn't shelling out money for terrorist organizations to do it for him. Obviously Osama isn't the only problem, but if you think reeeeal hard you can problem remember a time where we were actively searching for him for 9/11. If Bush was trying to take out all the terrorists at one time, wouldn't we be going after the organization where it exists (all over the world), NOT just in Iraq.

There have been many informative posts on this forum, on both side of the political spectrum. Yours was definitely not one of them. In fact I can't help but feel like you're just some uninformed kid who is trying to act all knowledgable. So, before you start calling people dumbfucks, maybe you should learn some shit.

[Lueda Alia]

haha. do I really need to go through and quote all the contradictions Kerry has posed? Because they are tenfold to Bush's. The man ripped into America for the Vietnam war. He WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT. His actions were unpatriotic. "Wrong War, Wrong Time." Now he supports the war. I'm sure you're well aware of the hundreds of issues that Kerry has voted for, and then against, and now supports because he does exactly what the American Public wants. And sadly, his situational politics may earn him a seat in office. once he's there, will he resort back to his old ways of doing whatever he feels? He may say he supports our troops now, but will he really? Or will he create another Vietnam situation where he yanks all the troops out immediatley, making america look weak and vunerable. John Kerry for president of France?

Kerry goes against what he's said hundreds of times, and you know that. If I need a spoon to swallow all of George W's contradictions, then you need a fucking ladel.


So he shouldn't do what the American Public wants? He should do what HE wants without thinking of others?


Wow. Smart thinking.



Bush is an idiot. Why do you think he's not very popular around the World? and you may not care, cause seeing as you're a Republican and all, but the whole World will really be pissed off and will just turn their backs on you if you re-elect Bush. Because this election will effect all of us, so when America gets fucked up if he's re-elected, so will other countries as well.

[Talib Scottie]

sadly, this year's election is a popularity contest... i'm voting for bush, i have been following this election for a while and i still don't know what kerry stands for, and i dont trust him, i dont trust bush that much either, but at least i know what he stands for. regardless of if we should have gone to war or not, we are there now, let the man who started if finish it, we dont need a change in office at this time. and don't vote for kerry cause ben affleck or any other celebrity said so (cause you know they are sooooo much better then us). get the facts, make the decision, then vote.

[furnace]

I find it hilarious how so many on these forums decide to bash Kerry for the simple fact that they claim all the musicians and stars etc. are shoving the vote Kerry down their throats. These people, like Fat Mike, that are asking the country to help them oust W., dont have any hidden fucking agenda's, their agenda is plain to see and if one were to read or listen to what the majority of them had to say then they'd know why they believe what they do.

[Talib Scottie]

I'm not talking down to you, nor do I think i'm "special" by any means because I work here. I'm expressing my opinions, and you are yours. Don't take anything too seriously here. Me and you, me and Jason are going at it today! It's because we believe two different things. It doesn't mean I HATE you, it doesn't mean I don't respect you, I just get upset with what seem to be irrational and hasty assumptions. You have since proven you can back it up, so good for you. my mistake for doubting you. I'm not sure about your whole "Bush wants to take over the world" theory, but that's up to you. I'm not as pessimistic there.

i checked your aim profile and read your blog...i have felt the exact same way forever, just could have never put it as well as yourself

[Lueda Alia]

sadly, this year's election is a popularity contest... i'm voting for bush, i have been following this election for a while and i still don't know what kerry stands for, and i dont trust him, i dont trust bush that much either, but at least i know what he stands for. regardless of if we should have gone to war or not, we are there now, let the man who started if finish it, we dont need a change in office at this time. and don't vote for kerry cause ben affleck or any other celebrity said so (cause you know they are sooooo much better then us). get the facts, make the decision, then vote.
you don't know what Kerry stands for?

I'm a freakin Canadian and I know exactly what he stands for.


Something wrong with that picture? Uhh, yes.

[Just_Insane]

I find it hilarious how so many on these forums decide to bash Kerry for the simple fact that they claim all the musicians and stars etc. are shoving the vote Kerry down their throats. These people, like Fat Mike, that are asking the country to help them oust W., dont have any hidden fucking agenda's, their agenda is plain to see and if one were to read or listen to what the majority of them had to say then they'd know why they believe what they do.

Agreed man, Fat Mike doesn't get millions if Kerry wins, like Bush and some really big business get if Bush wins.

[Just_Insane]

Yeah, I sure do, and I'm proud of it.

Umm why?....cause to me that just makes you look goddamn stupid.

[Scott Weber]

At the expense of peoples lives, we should remain in Iraq to prove how tough we are? That is just rediculous.
no, we should elect Kerry and have him put 50,000 more lives in danger. Sound good?

[Scott Weber]

:lol2: i checked your aim profile and read your blog...i have felt the exact same way forever, just could have never put it as well as yourself

[AlkTrio205]

sadly, this year's election is a popularity contest... i'm voting for bush, i have been following this election for a while and i still don't know what kerry stands for, and i dont trust him, i dont trust bush that much either, but at least i know what he stands for. regardless of if we should have gone to war or not, we are there now, let the man who started if finish it, we dont need a change in office at this time. and don't vote for kerry cause ben affleck or any other celebrity said so (cause you know they are sooooo much better then us). get the facts, make the decision, then vote.

I hate when democratic elections are popularity contests...

[Just_Insane]

..


Couldn't have said it better myself..

[Just_Insane]

i believe it's the result of punk goin more and more mainstream.

[TheBlueChannel]

Vote for Taking Back Sunday.

[ccsmanx]

Yeah, I sure do, and I'm proud of it.

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.

[Just_Insane]

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.

That's just sad really, that people let there decision on who to vote for be based on religion. Fucking sad. Umm eternal pain and hellfire?.....hahhaha, ok nice.

[saturdaysbest]

John Stewart for president!!!!

[Just_Insane]

funny how none of you actually answered my question, WHY? you don't even know, brainwashed from the start to weak to break lose....don't worry there's still time.

[Greg Thimmes]

I think we should get a free t-shirt if we vote. I drove over an hour today to go and vote and waited in a rediculous long line. Or atlest give me a cool sticker so I can go tag it on some stop sign.

[furnace]

So I may be waaaaay off base with it, but I guess I was under the impression the Bible was about tolerance and love, not hate and seperation.

Also, I think you must have been on vacation the day that they said Suddam had no ties to al-qaeda. Suddam did shit on his own, he wasn't shelling out money for terrorist organizations to do it for him. Obviously Osama isn't the only problem, but if you think reeeeal hard you can problem remember a time where we were actively searching for him for 9/11. If Bush was trying to take out all the terrorists at one time, wouldn't we be going after the organization where it exists (all over the world), NOT just in Iraq.

There have been many informative posts on this forum, on both side of the political spectrum. Yours was definitely not one of them. In fact I can't help but feel like you're just some uninformed kid who is trying to act all knowledgable. So, before you start calling people dumbfucks, maybe you should learn some shit.


Very well said.

[saturdaysbest]

Bush has a small penis.

[tyais]

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.


Whoa whoa whoa....

Let me speak out as a Christian who definitely shoots this one down. These kind of Christians (Believe in God or you will burn in hell, variety) are HARDLY representative of the whole of Christians in America.

I'm a strong Christian with ideals that follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and believe in evolution, free will, and that God does NOT endorse a candidate. Man alive, if God endorsed one of the candidates... screw the NY Times or the Washington Post, I think you'd have all the endorsements you need.

Anyhow, I'm posting so people don't get the "Christians are crackpots" ideas even though a good few are. You can be a Christian and vote for Kerry. (In fact, some would argue that the Democrats ideals of welfare and what not are more compassionate and Christlike than the government plans that Republicans carry out... but that's a big stretch.)

There are pros and negs to each side... it is a personal decision to see which you agree with. Once again... Christians, as a whole, don't believe God endorses a candidate.

Thank you.

[Just_Insane]

Bush has a small penis.

Yeah i know man, he tried to rape me as i was visiting the states....But he didn't find it so he failed. That's the real reason why he hates homosexuals.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Yeah i know man, he tried to rape me as i was visiting the states....But he didn't find it so he failed. That's the real reason why he hates homosexuals.
wow, You're intelligent.

[Just_Insane]

Whoa whoa whoa....

Let me speak out as a Christian who definitely shoots this one down. These kind of Christians (Believe in God or you will burn in hell, variety) are HARDLY representative of the whole of Christians in America.

I'm a strong Christian with ideals that follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and believe in evolution, free will, and that God does NOT endorse a candidate. Man alive, if God endorsed one of the candidates... screw the NY Times or the Washington Post, I think you'd have all the endorsements you need.

Anyhow, I'm posting so people don't get the "Christians are crackpots" ideas even though a good few are. You can be a Christian and vote for Kerry. (In fact, some would argue that the Democrats ideals of welfare and what not are more compassionate and Christlike than the government plans that Republicans carry out... but that's a big stretch.)

There are pros and negs to each side... it is a personal decision to see which you agree with. Once again... Christians, as a whole, don't believe God endorses a candidate.

Thank you.

Yeah man it's scary when people do things or are things just cause they're afraid something will happened if they don't or aren't. Just like Bush scares you with terrorists to vote for him, and just like religion can (but guess doesn't neccesarily have to) be used to scare you with hellfire and bla bla bla. Everyone so far i've seen on this forum who votes Bush or supports Bush is fucking scared.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Yeah man it's scary when people do things or are things just cause they're afraid something will happened if they don't or aren't. Just like Bush scares you with terrorists to vote for him, and just like religion can (but guess doesn't neccesarily have to) be used to scare you with hellfire and bla bla bla. Everyone so far i've seen on this forum who votes Bush or supports Bush is fucking scared.
I am not voting for im because I am "scared" I don't think scott weber is voting for him because he is "scared" either.

[Just_Insane]

wow, You're intelligent.

No, i'm just very funny

[supadupa003]

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.

wow you may be the most ignorant Christian I have ever met. I am a definite Christian and am voting for Kerry. I really don't see this election putting me through eternal pain and hellfire. You are the kind of people that turn others off of religion because of your ignorance.

[Just_Insane]

I am not voting for im because I am "scared" I don't think scott weber is voting for him because he is "scared" either.

Ok, so why you voting for him?

[PunkVideoGuys]

wow you may be the most ignorant Christian I have ever met. I am a definite Christian and am voting for Kerry. I really don't see this election putting me through eternal pain and hellfire. You are the kind of people that turn others off of religion because of your ignorance.
well said.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Ok, so why you voting for him?

Because he supports what I believe.

[Jesse2]

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.

yo dude, i think i saw you on public access the other day. awesome job trying to scare people into religion. I'm sure that's exactly the way God would want you to go about this. OR perhaps shit like that is what scares so many people away from some organized religions. I'm in no way bashing organized religions, but if I'm going to be spiritual it is sure as shit not going to be for fear of eternal damnation if I'm not. I'm sure Christians all over the country are happy that you're speaking on behalf of them.

[BrandNew20]

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.

thats the stupidest thing I have ever seen. congrats.

I don't believe in war, looks like I'm going to Hell because God wants Bush to win...

[Death 2 Traitor]

Let me be the first to say...

4 MORE YEARS!


AMEN!!!!!!!!

[BrandNew20]

yo dude, i think i saw you on public access the other day. awesome job trying to scare people into religion. I'm sure that's exactly the way God would want you to go about this. OR perhaps shit like that is what scares so many people away from some organized religions. I'm in no way bashing organized religions, but if I'm going to be spiritual it is sure as shit not going to be for fear of eternal damnation if I'm not. I'm sure Christians all over the country are happy that you're speaking on behalf of them.

I agree man, religion should offer people hope and help them guide their lives, not scare them into joining.

[Just_Insane]

wow you may be the most ignorant Christian I have ever met. I am a definite Christian and am voting for Kerry. I really don't see this election putting me through eternal pain and hellfire. You are the kind of people that turn others off of religion because of your ignorance.

Religion turn me off because i don't like others telling me what to do or how to live. I don't need that. I don't need someone or something telling me to not kill people, to love people and live in solidarity. I just think that's pretty obvious.

[Northstar2313]

Anyone know if it's going to be a problem that my license is expired???

[Just_Insane]

Because he supports what I believe.

Which is? cause i've heard no one supporting or voting for Bush yet actually say what they believe in or why they're voting for him. You only talk about terrorists and islamic fundamentalists, terror threat, homeland security and on and on.

[Just_Insane]

stuck on repeat.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Which is? cause i've heard no one supporting or voting for Bush yet actually say what they believe in or why they're voting for him. You only talk about terrorists and islamic fundamentalists, terror threat, homeland security and on and on.
Don't tell me what I talk about. I haven't once said "terrorist" in this thread. I am voting for Bush because I am anti-abortion, anti-stem cell, and anti-gay marriage, among other things.

[Underoath]

you people are too concerned with the propaganda... vote for the lesser of two evils... (*cough* kerry)

[Just_Insane]

Don't tell me what I talk about. I haven't once said "terrorist" in this thread. I am voting for Bush because I am anti-abortion, anti-stem cell, and anti-gay marriage, among other things.

I didn't say you had said terrorists i said people on this forum who support Bush only talk about that. But ok you're anti- woman controlling there own body and anti- people who love eachother getting married. A question, are you religious?

[yc_mest]

Bush already fucked up four years of our country just think about how scary it would be if he got 4 more years without having to worry about getting re-elected

[Lueda Alia]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=2&u=/ap/20041102/ap_on_re_eu/eln_world_on_edge

[PunkVideoGuys]

I didn't say you had said terrorists i said people on this forum who support Bush only talk about that. But ok you're anti- woman controlling there own body and anti- people who love eachother getting married. A question, are you religious?

I am pro-life is that what you are implying.

[Just_Insane]

I didn't say you had said terrorists i said people on this forum who support Bush only talk about that. But ok you're anti- woman controlling there own body and anti- people who love eachother getting married. A question, are you religious?

And actually you didn't say anything that you belived in, you only said what you were against.

[Just_Insane]

I am pro-life is that what you are implying.

Ok, i don't agree with you. I think that's fucked. But i'm not gonna start on that. But i just wonder if you are religious, just curious on why or what the things you're against is based on.

[makebelieve327]

The man ripped into America for the Vietnam war. He WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT. His actions were unpatriotic. "Wrong War, Wrong Time." Now he supports the war.

The whole "Wrong War, Wrong Time" quote really irks me. Bush brought us into the war. Kerry was against it. Now if he becomes president, he will be put into a situation where he would have to do all he can to fight it. Just because he opposed it doesn't mean he can't fight strongly when he needs to.

In my opinion(i feel i must state clearly that this is my opinion,) Bush is using the war that HE started as a way to say, "I started it, so I must finish it." As if all along he knew it would last past the election, so it would be a way for him to stay in office to finish what he started.

I'm not claiming to be the Dalai Lama of politics. Merely an opinion. Please don't hurt me.

[falloutboykid]

vote kerry
bush is a moron

[XxLoserDanxX]

Why the fuck is this such a big stink with republicans? Is that you guys realize you are very uncool and half the world fucking hates you? And the best celebrity you can get to support you is fucking that block head whore Britney Spears? What the fuck is it with you people?

oh because i vote to be oh so cool like you. you're fucking stupid, and i really think that people like you who have to be in the cool crowd will be the downfall of the US. I haven't read anywhere where you make a valid point to vote for Kerry. I'm talking about stating Issue's and leaving bush out. I'm talking are you pro-life or pro-choice. no, you're anit-bush. that's not a fucking reason to vote. i hope you arent old enough to vote, because your vote seems to be a vote wasted.

me? i voted for Bush. why, well to be honest i was on the fence about a lot of things, but I am pro-life. I do not think aborting any fetus at any stage is right, no matter if the can feel it or not, or if it has 1, 2 or 4 billion cells. I just think its wrong. there ARE more reason, but i dont have to explain myself to anyone but myself. but you, seem to have the whole election process clouded by popularity

[The Bled 13]

How many bridges did they destroy in the first place?

Supporting Iraq, Funding Israel, Supporting other various terrorism groups that I don't know off the top of my head. That's bound to burn bridges.

When one finds out your helping the other I'm sure they become pissed off.

[UndefinedBoy]

oh because i vote to be oh so cool like you. you're fucking stupid, and i really think that people like you who have to be in the cool crowd will be the downfall of the US. I haven't read anywhere where you make a valid point to vote for Kerry. I'm talking about stating Issue's and leaving bush out. I'm talking are you pro-life or pro-choice. no, you're anit-bush. that's not a fucking reason to vote. i hope you arent old enough to vote, because your vote seems to be a vote wasted.

You honestly think people are voting to be "cool"...alright, nothing you said really holds up anymore, you've proven your ignorance.

[Scott Weber]

same here. and it doesn't make us stupid. It makes us believers in a faith that guarantees eternal salvation. When it comes down to it, if you are a Christian, you will vote Bush, if you aren't i don't know who you'll vote for, but I do know your going to live in eternal pain and hellfire.

that's ridiculous. Please don't speak for all christians. How dare you judge people to eternal damnation. You need to go back to the basics and realize that it is God's job to judge, and not yours. I voted Bush, but I have many Christian friends who are voting Kerry. Religious beliefs should not monopolize your political decisions. There are many more important issues out there. One must view the whole picture instead of getting trapped into a religious bias.

Please do not take this guy seriously.

[tyais]

Bush brought us into the war. Kerry was against it.


Whoa whoa whoa... Kerry wasn't against it. Kerry voted to give President Bush power to use military force in Iraq. (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=32 02&can_id=S0421103)

That's where a lot of anti-Kerry people have problems. Kerry votes for the war, says that in hindsight the war was a bad idea, but that he will pour more funding into the war in Iraq. Not saying I have a problem with that, that's just some people's opinions.

[XxLoserDanxX]

You honestly think people are voting to be "cool"...alright, nothing you said really holds up anymore, you've proven your ignorance.

read the fucking quote, boy.

[saintjoel]

Vote for Taking Back Sunday.

straylight run is better

[ShoeSh1ne]

I dont wanna see anything happen like 9/11 again.

I hate to say it, but the world we live in has things like this happen all the time. Not always on the huge scale that 9/11 was, but you get the idea.

[The Bled 13]

oh because i vote to be oh so cool like you. you're fucking stupid, and i really think that people like you who have to be in the cool crowd will be the downfall of the US. I haven't read anywhere where you make a valid point to vote for Kerry. I'm talking about stating Issue's and leaving bush out. I'm talking are you pro-life or pro-choice. no, you're anit-bush. that's not a fucking reason to vote. i hope you arent old enough to vote, because your vote seems to be a vote wasted.

Haha, I'm fucking stupid? I am in the cool crowd thank you very much.

I'm pro-choice in certain cases. If you are raped, I think you deserve an abortion, and for a few other cases as well.

I also believe that the war in Iraq was very unnecesary and I think that we should have focused on Afghanistan.

John Kerry has a plan to create jobs, not cut them.

John Kerry has a plan to help the world, but not fucking police them. His administration will hold our interests, not their buisness partners interests.



I guess you haven't read any of my other posts, because at one point I believe I said John McCain would be a better president.

Hating Bush is a great reason to vote, that's why I did it.

[saintjoel]

Anyone know if it's going to be a problem that my license is expired???

maybe if youre a democrat :wink3:

[Chemical Love]

i voted for Bush.

[The Bled 13]

read the fucking quote, boy.

God, what a whiney Conservative...bllllllah.

[XxLoserDanxX]

If you are raped, I think you deserve an abortion, and for a few other cases as well.

why does the baby deserve to die? why punish it for something it didnt do. adoption is a better choice OR planned parent hood has a 72 hour pill which stops fertalization before it can happen, hence no abortion needed.

and im a whiney conservative? actually im not registered to either party, like i stated in my previous post i was on the fence and could have voted either way.

[The Bled 13]

why does the baby deserve to die? why punish it for something it didnt do. adoption is a better choice OR planned parent hood has a 72 hour pill which stops fertalization before it can happen, hence no abortion needed.

Haha, that is terrible. That truely is. So when you're wife, you're close freind or you're mother is raped by some motherfucking with AIDS and other various STD's, you want to run the risk of having an extremely unhealthy kid, that would most likely live a pretty miserable life? Not to even mention the mental stress you go through after you have been raped, your rights have been stripped of you, it just goes to show that people can be fucking disgusting animals, how could you even think of raising that kid? There is no question that I support abortion in these cases. AND to argue the other point, yeah they could do that, but how many people have unprotected sex and still aren't pregnant? Yeahup.

[jellybeans]

kerry all the way

[twilson2]

Don't forget all you Republicans, to vote for George Bush November 3rd at your local polling place. Again, that's November 3rd. Let your voices be heard!

[saintjoel]

why does the baby deserve to die? why punish it for something it didnt do. adoption is a better choice OR planned parent hood has a 72 hour pill which stops fertalization before it can happen, hence no abortion needed.

and im a whiney conservative? actually im not registered to either party, like i stated in my previous post i was on the fence and could have voted either way.

i personally dont think guys have a say in this, a guy is never gonna have to make this decision by himself, a woman might. i personally am against abortion, but i dont see how i can tell a woman not to get one, if i got my girlfriend pregnant and she chose to get an abortion i would support her, because it would be an incredibly hard thing to do regardless of being for or against it

[tyais]

why does the baby deserve to die? why punish it for something it didnt do. adoption is a better choice OR planned parent hood has a 72 hour pill which stops fertalization before it can happen, hence no abortion needed.

and im a whiney conservative? actually im not registered to either party, like i stated in my previous post i was on the fence and could have voted either way.

First of all, the legal ramifications are that it is NOT a baby. It is a fetus. That's legalese there.

Second, why be an extremist? Many churches (including the one I am a part of) will support the consideration of an abortion in cases of rape, incest, when the mother's life is at stake, and when there is no chance of survival for the fetus. It is a VERY nice middle ground in my opinion and a compromise. The only thing as bad as an extreme liberal is an extreme conservative... and an extreme liberterian... *shudder*

[Scott Weber]

Religion turn me off because i don't like others telling me what to do or how to live. I don't need that. I don't need someone or something telling me to not kill people, to love people and live in solidarity. I just think that's pretty obvious.

i'm sorry you've had bad expierences with religion. Know that it's not the ideal or mindset of christians to go convert everyone. We try to lead by example, but I'm never condescending to anyone elses opinions or beliefs, and I don't try to force my views down anybody's throat. So just know that's not what the religion is about.

Also. I have not once tried to throw my views in anybody's face or shove my values down anybody's throat in this thread. I am defending my decision - i have said multiple times that if you are well-informed and have an opinion, then go ahead and vote for Kerry, or Bush. That's what democracy is, it's your God-given right to have a voice and to have choice. I'm just getting so tired of Kerry supporters like The Bled13 who are absolutely forcing their beliefs on people instead of letting them make up their own mind. These comments are insulting and demeaning. He called all republicans "uncool" and that half the world "hates us." That's the most asinine thiing I've ever heard. If you really believe that, then you're just as bad as a racist. I support Bush with every ounce of my body, but I have tons of friends who vote Kerry, including forum members and even staff here. I can dispute it with them, but I don't HATE them. You're just reinforcing the stereotype that already exists that Liberals are hateful, irrationally radical, and ignorantly vocal.

For as much negative conotation that goes along with Christians forcing their views upon people, you don't have to look any farther than this thread to find much more extreme political examples.

[The Bled 13]

I was disgusted last night when I watched MTV air the most bullshit Anti-Bush propaganda I have seen all night from 10 pm to 2 am, the NIGHT BEFORE the election. I am worried about this election because all of the ignorant kids out there are going to listen to MTV and shitty bands like Anti Flag that tell them its cool to vote against Bush. I have a bad feeling this election is gonna be decide by kids who vote for Kerry because its the hip thing to do. I'm disgusted with the bias liberal media and if you support it I am disgusted with you. And by the way, Bush has NEVER said there is going to be a draft. He has CONSISTENTLY said there will not be a draft, so honestly, stop spreading these lies that may possibly be a deciding factor in the future of our country. If you are ignorant to the facts, please don't try and persuade anyone to vote. You are an idiot.

Disgusted? Well I guess you missed the point many times over that they made very clear - Mr. President wouldn't join them for an interview, and the story wasn't different then either. They are just presenting the facts, are you guys ashamed that Bush is fucking us over? How can you honestly prove that their is a bias, the most blatantly clear bias is at FOX and STILL nobody will admit it. And stop assuming that everyone is ignorant, haven't you ever heard the phrase that tags along with assuming?

[Scott Weber]

God, what a whiney Conservative...bllllllah.
^^ case in point.

[The Bled 13]

"Read my lips: no new taxes" - GB.

Yah, I trust the things this family says.

"I'll use war as a last resort" - GWB
"We know where the wmds are" - GWB
"We'll get Osama; i promise" - GWM
"I don't worry about osama or really care" - GW

YAH! Let's believe it all!! Ask for a spoon next time you wanna swallow all this shit.

"I'm a War president, I go to work with War on my mind."

"Their ought to be limits to freedom."

[ItsStillARecipe]

Don't forget all you Republicans, to vote for George Bush November 3rd at your local polling place. Again, that's November 3rd. Let your voices be heard!

i think your plan to be funny just backfired.

[XxLoserDanxX]

AND to argue the other point, yeah they could do that, but how many people have unprotected sex and still aren't pregnant? Yeahup.

yea awesome arguement for the other part. but ok so the baby is going to live a miserable life and probably will die at age 13. medicine has come along way to help those problems, ok what about cost, and yes under bush, the prices have not gone up, which is one thing i wish wouldnt have happened, and where i side with Kerry, but to just end someones life is horrible

[Scott Weber]

I am not voting for im because I am "scared" I don't think scott weber is voting for him because he is "scared" either.
truth.

[tyais]

How can you honestly prove that their is a bias, the most blatantly clear bias is at FOX and STILL nobody will admit it. And stop assuming that everyone is ignorant, haven't you ever heard the phrase that tags along with assuming?

I'll admit Fox has a bias. And that CNN has a bias.

But if you try and deny MTV has a bias.... please. Me and one of the other news posters both made comments last night on how liberal they are. They promote Rock the Vote which is also an extremely biased organization...

MTV has a vested interest in having a liberal president and support Kerry over Bush. It's blatantly obvious. Just like Fox supports Bush over Kerry.

[Mickey]

Don't tell me what I talk about. I haven't once said "terrorist" in this thread. I am voting for Bush because I am anti-abortion, anti-stem cell, and anti-gay marriage, among other things.

I used to be really, really anti-burger king... then I had me a flame brolied whopper. Now me loves it. How is you gonna knock sumptin you ain't never tried.

[kylekillspeople]

vote for who best fits your situation, not because one candidate isnt another.

[The Bled 13]

i'm sorry you've had bad expierences with religion. Know that it's not the ideal or mindset of christians to go convert everyone. We try to lead by example, but I'm never condescending to anyone elses opinions or beliefs, and I don't try to force my views down anybody's throat. So just know that's not what the religion is about.

Also. I have not once tried to throw my views in anybody's face or shove my values down anybody's throat in this thread. I am defending my decision - i have said multiple times that if you are well-informed and have an opinion, then go ahead and vote for Kerry, or Bush. That's what democracy is, it's your God-given right to have a voice and to have choice. I'm just getting so tired of Kerry supporters like The Bled13 who are absolutely forcing their beliefs on people instead of letting them make up their own mind. These comments are insulting and demeaning. He called all republicans "uncool" and that half the world "hates us." That's the most asinine thiing I've ever heard. If you really believe that, then you're just as bad as a racist. I support Bush with every ounce of my body, but I have tons of friends who vote Kerry, including forum members and even staff here. I can dispute it with them, but I don't HATE them. You're just reinforcing the stereotype that already exists that Liberals are hateful, irrationally radical, and ignorantly vocal.

For as much negative conotation that goes along with Christians forcing their views upon people, you don't have to look any farther than this thread to find much more extreme political examples.

Haha, I'm not even going to comment on the rest of this. But the Christians "not forcing their beliefs" really got me. What the fuck were the Cursades?

And what the fuck are these "drug rehabilitation" programs doing? They are "forcing" people to convert, they believe that it is the only way to survive a drug addiction. And these programs are support by Bush.

[The Bled 13]

yea awesome arguement for the other part. but ok so the baby is going to live a miserable life and probably will die at age 13. medicine has come along way to help those problems, ok what about cost, and yes under bush, the prices have not gone up, which is one thing i wish wouldnt have happened, and where i side with Kerry, but to just end someones life is horrible

Advances in medicine? What, anti-depressants? Haha, studys show over and over that these pills can actually make things worse. Not only that, you have to force the kid to take the pills, he doesn't know his father, and he knows his mother was raped. THINK ABOUT IT. Ending life is always horrible, and I would never say "shit happens." But, in some cases like this, it's very different. Believe me, I'm strongly against all other forms of abortion.

[oreo_emokid89]

vote CONSTITUTIONAL PARTY! WOOOOOOO lol just kidding, they're all nuts in the constitutional party

i hope kerry wins :-)

[kylekillspeople]

But the Christians "not forcing their beliefs" really got me. What the fuck were the Cursades?



that was actually the catholics, and it was a bit of a ways back if you check it out. saying that christians today are responsible for the crusaders forcing their beliefs is like holding a southern family today personally responsible for their predecessors ownership of slaves.

[The Bled 13]

"We lead by example."

Christ kissed the feet of a whore. I hope to god you treat other people with this respect becuase you would surely be a huge hypocrite if not. Jesus was leading by example, so you say.

[tyais]

Haha, I'm not even going to comment on the rest of this. But the Christians "not forcing their beliefs" really got me. What the fuck were the Cursades?

And what the fuck are these "drug rehabilitation" programs doing? They are "forcing" people to convert, they believe that it is the only way to survive a drug addiction. And these programs are support by Bush.

Right because the Crusades are indicative of current religious goals... and the church involved with the Crusades hasn't apologized hundreds of times over. Just because some use religion as a tool for power, doesn't mean all of us are. But what would I know, I'm a nutjob Christian.

Drug rehab programs have shown to be most effective when outside powers are used as a motivator. Whether they use God or something else, I don't care. But they ARE more effective.

[The Bled 13]

that was actually the catholics, and it was a bit of a ways back if you check it out. saying that christians today are responsible for the crusaders forcing their beliefs is like holding a southern family today personally responsible for their predecessors ownership of slaves.


Good point.

[tyais]

vote CONSTITUTIONAL PARTY! WOOOOOOO lol just kidding, they're all nuts in the constitutional party

i hope kerry wins :-)

Holy crap is the constitutional party nuts... They're friggin crazy in my opinion. Though I've never met someone who belongs to the party, just looking at their platform scares me. Sheezh.

[d1rtejerz]

"The man ripped into America for the Vietnam war. He WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT. His actions were unpatriotic. "Wrong War, Wrong Time." Now he supports the war."

I could be mistaken but you come across as extremely uninformed here. Kerry wasn't just some socialist political critic ie-Michael Moore who decided to write a book about the anti-Nam movement. John Kerry actually served valiantly in Vietnam. He received 2 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star. He was wounded three times in battle. Once his tour was over he was extremely active in the anti-war movement. He saw the atrocities that were occuring during the conflict and realized how futile the war was. Loads of Americans and 1.5 million Vietnamese civilians were killed. And for what? In my eyes, if you were knee deep in a shit storm like Vietnam and lived to tell about it, that gives you the right to express your dissent, as Kerry and thousands of other vets did.


Are you saying you actually support the Vietnam war in hindsight? If so, that is just scary. And what exactly is unpatriotic about expressing your disagreement with the government? It's your mentality that anything but blind devotion for the President is unpatriotic. That, my friend, is a textbook example of ignorance.

[The Bled 13]

Right because the Crusades are indicative of current religious goals... and the church involved with the Crusades hasn't apologized hundreds of times over. Just because some use religion as a tool for power, doesn't mean all of us are. But what would I know, I'm a nutjob Christian.

Drug rehab programs have shown to be most effective when outside powers are used as a motivator. Whether they use God or something else, I don't care. But they ARE more effective.

That's another good point, and yes all Christians are nutjobs.

Are more effective yes, but it shouldn't just be limited to the Koran or the Bible. They shouldn't have a plan to "change" you once you enter, they should help you find your change through your own religion.

[kylekillspeople]

That's another good point, and yes all Christians are nutjobs.


not all christians.

theres always.......

nevermind. every last one of them are nutjobs.

[Jason Tate]

truth.
Why are you then?

RELIGION!

We already know why, it's a weird way to vote, but at least we know why you are....

[JimmyIymmiJ]

ya know, i was wondering what the cursades were myself....

[oreo_emokid89]

Holy crap is the constitutional party nuts... They're friggin crazy in my opinion. Though I've never met someone who belongs to the party, just looking at their platform scares me. Sheezh.

me either
i did meet a libertarian tho which is my claim to fame, i just need to meet a socialist...

[The Bled 13]

I'll admit Fox has a bias. And that CNN has a bias.

But if you try and deny MTV has a bias.... please. Me and one of the other news posters both made comments last night on how liberal they are. They promote Rock the Vote which is also an extremely biased organization...

MTV has a vested interest in having a liberal president and support Kerry over Bush. It's blatantly obvious. Just like Fox supports Bush over Kerry.


I'll make my favorite assumption.

Bush loves God and hates abortions.. and "won't" raise taxes, that's the only reason people vote for him. They can't present any facts.

[kylekillspeople]

"The man ripped into America for the Vietnam war. He WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT. His actions were unpatriotic. "Wrong War, Wrong Time." Now he supports the war."

I could be mistaken but you come across as extremely uninformed here. Kerry wasn't just some socialist political critic ie-Michael Moore who decided to write a book about the anti-Nam movement. John Kerry actually served valiantly in Vietnam. He received 2 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star. He was wounded three times in battle. Once his tour was over he was extremely active in the anti-war movement. He saw the atrocities that were occuring during the conflict and realized how futile the war was. Loads of Americans and 1.5 million Vietnamese civilians were killed. And for what? In my eyes, if you were knee deep in a shit storm like Vietnam and lived to tell about it, that gives you the right to express your dissent, as Kerry and thousands of other vets did.


Are you saying you actually support the Vietnam war in hindsight? If so, that is just scary. And what exactly is unpatriotic about expressing your disagreement with the government? It's your mentality that anything but blind devotion for the President is unpatriotic. That, my friend, is a textbook example of ignorance.

if the fact that john kerry met with North Korean leaders during the war without the approval of our government or military leadership isnt unpatriotic, i dont know what is. john kerry is a fairweather american. if it beneits him to be patriotic, he'll wave the flag till his arms fall off, but when it causes him some sort of inconveience he'll drop that flag and kick dirt on it.

[The Bled 13]

Look at the fucking mess in Iraq, but most don't care because that's other people dying and not them. And it isn't on American soil. But since Buch "connects" with God he is loved.

Well the Redsox did win, that alone is a sign from God that he wants Kerry to win.

[Jason Tate]

if the fact that john kerry met with North Korean leaders during the war without the approval of our government or military leadership isnt unpatriotic, i dont know what is. john kerry is a fairweather american. if it beneits him to be patriotic, he'll wave the flag till his arms fall off, but when it causes him some sort of inconveience he'll drop that flag and kick dirt on it.
By your logic: The entire United States Government is a fairweather "american" - do you realize all the weapons we have given "terrorists" in the past? Fucking A man, at the very least learn a little before using that as your justification. I'd call going AWOL from the national guard more unpatriotic then going to vietnam, but hey: that's just me.

[oreo_emokid89]

if the fact that john kerry met with North Korean leaders during the war without the approval of our government or military leadership isnt unpatriotic,
i'd rather someone stand up for what they belive in than be "patriotic"
and it's not like he met with them to plot americas downfall

[rawkmandale]

Apparently, Guam is full of smart people. I did not know that until now.

[kylekillspeople]

I'll make my favorite assumption.

Bush loves God and hates abortions.. and "won't" raise taxes, that's the only reason people vote for him. They can't present any facts.
im not voting for him because he loves god, because he wont raise taxes and hates abortions. im voting for bush because john kerry scares the crap out of me. for example: my uncle works for harley-davidson. he has a very lofty postion there and makes over a million dollars a year. the government taxes him 50% of his income. under john kerry, we would tax the rich more, right? thats wrong. why do you take more of someones money just because they have more than everyone else? thats socialist.

[oreo_emokid89]

By your logic: The entire United States Government is a fairweather "american" - do you realize all the weapons we have given "terrorists" in the past?
another good point, we made Osama Bin Ladin what he is
and with the proxy wars during the cold war we armed pretty much anyone who wasn't a communist

[kylekillspeople]

By your logic: The entire United States Government is a fairweather "american" - do you realize all the weapons we have given "terrorists" in the past? Fucking A man, at the very least learn a little before using that as your justification. I'd call going AWOL from the national guard more unpatriotic then going to vietnam, but hey: that's just me.
id say that giving weapons to someone who turns around and uses those weapons 25-30 years later against us a MISTAKE. not a convenience as you put it. at least our givernment and past presidents (both bush's, clinton) have saved face and admitted it wasnt in our best judgement, whereas your candidate denies everything.

[The Bled 13]

im not voting for him because he loves god, because he wont raise taxes and hates abortions. im voting for bush because john kerry scares the crap out of me. for example: my uncle works for harley-davidson. he has a very lofty postion there and makes over a million dollars a year. the government taxes him 50% of his income. under john kerry, we would tax the rich more, right? thats wrong. why do you take more of someones money just because they have more than everyone else? thats socialist.

Another good point. This government isn't too far from socialism...

Kerry does scare me sometimes, but nobody, scares me like Bush. I don't trust him with anything, and I'm always hesitant with Kerry as well. But I measured it out and I know Kerry will do a better job.

How is Bush going to gain all the money he spent...

[kylekillspeople]

How is Bush going to gain all the money he spent...

cant tell you that one. only time will tell. these were unforeseen costs, and i dont agree with all of it. the economy is recovering to a certain degree, but i dont see how bringing in a president who will increase spending by billions of dollars will help a defecit.

[tyais]

me either
i did meet a libertarian tho which is my claim to fame, i just need to meet a socialist...

I'm registered undeclared. I voted for the Liberterian candidate this election. Moderate liberterianism is definitely what I am a fan of, but it is VERY hard to find a Liberterian who isn't extreme in his ideas. Nevertheless, I despire Bush and Kerry, so I went with the guy I liked most. Badnarik.

[oreo_emokid89]

i dont see how bringing in a president who will increase spending by billions of dollars will help a defecit.
because he will repeal acts by bush that are costing way too much money and improve the economy by bringing back jobs

[The Bled 13]

cant tell you that one. only time will tell. these were unforeseen costs, and i dont agree with all of it. the economy is recovering to a certain degree, but i dont see how bringing in a president who will increase spending by billions of dollars will help a defecit.

Unforeseen? Haha, I disagree.

[Jason Tate]

im not voting for him because he loves god, because he wont raise taxes and hates abortions. im voting for bush because john kerry scares the crap out of me. for example: my uncle works for harley-davidson. he has a very lofty postion there and makes over a million dollars a year. the government taxes him 50% of his income. under john kerry, we would tax the rich more, right? thats wrong. why do you take more of someones money just because they have more than everyone else? thats socialist.
figures.

[tyais]

figures.

Stinging rebuttal Tate. What's next... "Your mother?"

[Scott Weber]

"The man ripped into America for the Vietnam war. He WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT. His actions were unpatriotic. "Wrong War, Wrong Time." Now he supports the war."

I could be mistaken but you come across as extremely uninformed here. Kerry wasn't just some socialist political critic ie-Michael Moore who decided to write a book about the anti-Nam movement. John Kerry actually served valiantly in Vietnam. He received 2 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star. He was wounded three times in battle. Once his tour was over he was extremely active in the anti-war movement. He saw the atrocities that were occuring during the conflict and realized how futile the war was. Loads of Americans and 1.5 million Vietnamese civilians were killed. And for what? In my eyes, if you were knee deep in a shit storm like Vietnam and lived to tell about it, that gives you the right to express your dissent, as Kerry and thousands of other vets did.


Are you saying you actually support the Vietnam war in hindsight? If so, that is just scary. And what exactly is unpatriotic about expressing your disagreement with the government? It's your mentality that anything but blind devotion for the President is unpatriotic. That, my friend, is a textbook example of ignorance.

I'm well aware of the situation. I was summarizing my thoughts, but here's an expansion. Kerry, like many ripped into the vietnam war. As he should have, it was an unjust war. But since then, he's been dripping with sentiment about how valiant his efforts were as a soldier, and how he knows what it's like to fight for our country. Does he? He was fighting for our country, but he was there representing a country's war that he didn't believe in. He was gaining purple hearts in a place he didn't want to be. If Kerry truly doesn't believe in this war, why doesn't he come out and say it? Why send even more troops overseas if he thinks this is another Vietnam. That's where I pull out the "wrong war, wrong place" quote...because I think if he's put in office, he may do something irrational and pull all the troops out immediatley, sending terrible messages about the US's military posistion and power to those across the world - making ourselves a bigger target for terrorist attacks, by terrorist threats that we did not extinguish because Bush never got the chance to. We're in it now, and we have to finish it - for the safety of our nation.

[Jason Tate]

Stinging rebuttal Tate. What's next... "Your mother?"
There's not much too say to greedy people, I just let it go. Morals are the one thing, you can't ever argue.

[kylekillspeople]

because he will repeal acts by bush that are costing way too much money and improve the economy by bringing back jobs
how is he going to bring back jobs? this corporate downsizing and moving jobs overseas thing has been a trend occuring for over 20 years. bush did give alot of these companies tax cuts, but this was because of the crippling recession we were in. these tax cuts allowed large corporations (wish i could come up wiht an example off the top of my head) to operate day to day rather than filing bankruptcy and having whatever jobs were left within the country lost all together.

[Scott Weber]

Unforeseen? Haha, I disagree.

Did you predict 9/11? If so, bravo. You can't tell me that the biggest reason for the drop in the economy was something GW should have seen coming. That's absurd.

[Jason Tate]

I'm well aware of the situation. I was summarizing my thoughts, but here's an expansion. Kerry, like many ripped into the vietnam war. As he should have, it was an unjust war. But since then, he's been dripping with sentiment about how valiant his efforts were as a soldier, and how he knows what it's like to fight for our country. Does he? He was fighting for our country, but he was there representing a country's war that he didn't believe in. He was gaining purple hearts in a place he didn't want to be. If Kerry truly doesn't believe in this war, why doesn't he come out and say it? Why send even more troops overseas if he thinks this is another Vietnam. That's where I pull out the "wrong war, wrong place" quote...because I think if he's put in office, he may do something irrational and pull all the troops out immediatley, sending terrible messages about the US's military posistion and power to those across the world - making ourselves a bigger target for terrorist attacks, by terrorist threats that we did not extinguish because Bush never got the chance to. We're in it now, and we have to finish it - for the safety of our nation.
You take everything bush says as fact; "no draft" - but assume everything kerry says is a lie; "not pulling out of iraq" - you have to be consistant. believe they're both liars, and then who would you vote for ....

[The Bled 13]

Did you predict 9/11? If so, bravo. You can't tell me that the biggest reason for the drop in the economy was something GW should have seen coming. That's absurd.

Jesus, it really does man an ass out of you and me.

[oreo_emokid89]

I'm well aware of the situation. I was summarizing my thoughts, but here's an expansion. Kerry, like many ripped into the vietnam war. As he should have, it was an unjust war. But since then, he's been dripping with sentiment about how valiant his efforts were as a soldier, and how he knows what it's like to fight for our country. Does he? He was fighting for our country, but he was there representing a country's war that he didn't believe in. He was gaining purple hearts in a place he didn't want to be. If Kerry truly doesn't believe in this war, why doesn't he come out and say it? Why send even more troops overseas if he thinks this is another Vietnam. That's where I pull out the "wrong war, wrong place" quote...because I think if he's put in office, he may do something irrational and pull all the troops out immediatley, sending terrible messages about the US's military posistion and power to those across the world - making ourselves a bigger target for terrorist attacks, by terrorist threats that we did not extinguish because Bush never got the chance to. We're in it now, and we have to finish it - for the safety of our nation.

even though he didnt belive in the war it's good that he at least did his duty as he saw it, who knows how many people went to that war and died, but didnt even belive in the cause, they just went because they felt it was their duty as an american

[Scott Weber]

Well the Redsox did win, that alone is a sign from God that he wants Kerry to win.

John Kerry said his favorite Red Sox player was "Manny Ortiz."

[kylekillspeople]

There's not much too say to greedy people, I just let it go. Morals are the one thing, you can't ever argue.
greed is relative tate. thats why liberal politics dont work. theres too much money going through too many hands and it doesnt all come out in the wash. less money going through government hands = less chance for "mistakes"

[Jason Tate]

Did you predict 9/11? If so, bravo. You can't tell me that the biggest reason for the drop in the economy was something GW should have seen coming. That's absurd.
Our intellegence predicted 9/11 ..... and there are many writers who have been saying for YEARS something like this was coming, even Clinton's administration told the Dubya administration that something was brewing. Stop ignoring things that are contrary to what you want to believe.

[oreo_emokid89]

how is he going to bring back jobs? this corporate downsizing and moving jobs overseas thing has been a trend occuring for over 20 years. bush did give alot of these companies tax cuts, but this was because of the crippling recession we were in. these tax cuts allowed large corporations (wish i could come up wiht an example off the top of my head) to operate day to day rather than filing bankruptcy and having whatever jobs were left within the country lost all together.
and how many companys just abused this to get tax cuts when they could very well survive in america

[The Bled 13]

It doesn't matter, you're God, that you so love, made the Red Sox win the world series. Kerry is going to be the president weather you like it or not.

[Jason Tate]

John Kerry said his favorite Red Sox player was "Manny Ortiz."
Wow, and Bush said "God wants me to win." Which one scares me more .... exactly.

[tyais]

There's not much too say to greedy people, I just let it go. Morals are the one thing, you can't ever argue.

Very true you can't argue morals. But it doesn't stop politicians.

Second, greed, as you will learn in economics, is what has made the US one of the most succesful nations. Having the opportunity to make and keep money - being greedy - has driven people to produce as much as possible at the best cost to themselves which tends to benefit the whole. There are limits to such a market, but as Milt Friedman, Nobel prize winner said, "Greed is good."

[kylekillspeople]

John Kerry said his favorite Red Sox player was "Manny Ortiz."
did he? thats great..........

when he was in milwaukee a few months back he called lambeau field, a place among the most historic and hallowed stadiiums in sports "lambert"

not something to vote on, but still really funny,

[Jason Tate]

greed is relative tate. thats why liberal politics dont work. theres too much money going through too many hands and it doesnt all come out in the wash. less money going through government hands = less chance for "mistakes"
That's why liberal politics don't work? Do I need to bust out the examples? Come on, you're like Dick Cheney: say whatever helps your argument regardless of the facts.

[kylekillspeople]

Wow, and Bush said "God wants me to win." Which one scares me more .... exactly.
source please

[Jason Tate]

Very true you can't argue morals. But it doesn't stop politicians.

Second, greed, as you will learn in economics, is what has made the US one of the most succesful nations. Having the opportunity to make and keep money - being greedy - has driven people to produce as much as possible at the best cost to themselves which tends to benefit the whole. There are limits to such a market, but as Milt Friedman, Nobel prize winner said, "Greed is good."
You watched too much Wall Street, gotta love that Michael Douglass.

[kylekillspeople]

That's why liberal politics don't work? Do I need to bust out the examples? Come on, you're like Dick Cheney: say whatever helps your argument regardless of the facts.
this coming from someone who claims bush says "god wants me to win"
this is logic. there is beauty in simplicity.

[The Bled 13]

Source please... shit I'll give you a few -

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/george-w-bush/

http://slate.msn.com/id/2106590/

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/24/CMGIJ7OVNB1.DTL

[Jason Tate]

source please
Sep 2000 George W Bush tells a George magazine interviewer: "I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for President."

[kylekillspeople]

You watched too much Wall Street, gotta love that Michael Douglass.
WE AGREE ON SOMETHING! someone call satan and get a weather report for hell because im freaking out.

[The Bled 13]

I have a few more if you want them.

[Jason Tate]

this coming from someone who claims bush says "god wants me to win"
this is logic. there is beauty in simplicity.

what's the word?

[kylekillspeople]

Sep 2000 George W Bush tells a George magazine interviewer: "I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for President."
a little different than what you said

john lennon said that his band was bigger than jesus christ

reggie white played another season for the green bay packers because god wanted him to keep his promise to fans.

i know there is a fine line between faith and blasphemy, but lets take this with a grain of salt.

[Jesse2]

Did you predict 9/11? If so, bravo. You can't tell me that the biggest reason for the drop in the economy was something GW should have seen coming. That's absurd.

well besides the report called bin laden to attack us on our own soil, with a picture of the world trade centers on the cover. i suppose they were looking for a phone call from bin laden himself? i know that bush is not entirely to blame for it happening, but don't act like 9/11 was a total shock to the entire country. people in our government predicted this. maybe if he wasn't on vacation for most of the first year of his presidency it might have been looked into a little more? who knows.

[tyais]

You watched too much Wall Street, gotta love that Michael Douglass.

Tate. Take an Econ class. This is basic stuff. You won't find an economist in the world who won't back up what I've just told you. In a free market economy, greed benefits more than the people taking in money. Economics 100-level stuff. Ever since Adam Smith gave his invisble hand theory, there has only been evidence which bolsters it, with only few discprenancies(sp?) showing why a market shouldn't be completely free - which is why we need government intervention.

[Jason Tate]

Tate. Take an Econ class. This is basic stuff. You won't find an economist in the world who won't back up what I've just told you. In a free market economy, greed benefits more than the people taking in money. Economics 100-level stuff. Ever since Adam Smith gave his invisble hand theory, there has only been evidence which bolsters it, with only few discprenancies(sp?) showing why a market shouldn't be completely free - which is why we need government intervention.
I agree with you, I have taken lots of econ classes, but the reason why econ alone doesn't run the world is because there are morals that need to be applied as well. A straight philosopher can't run the world any better or worse than a straight economist can. That's the point.

[Just_Insane]

i'm sorry you've had bad expierences with religion. Know that it's not the ideal or mindset of christians to go convert everyone. We try to lead by example, but I'm never condescending to anyone elses opinions or beliefs, and I don't try to force my views down anybody's throat. So just know that's not what the religion is about.

Also. I have not once tried to throw my views in anybody's face or shove my values down anybody's throat in this thread. I am defending my decision - i have said multiple times that if you are well-informed and have an opinion, then go ahead and vote for Kerry, or Bush. That's what democracy is, it's your God-given right to have a voice and to have choice. I'm just getting so tired of Kerry supporters like The Bled13 who are absolutely forcing their beliefs on people instead of letting them make up their own mind. These comments are insulting and demeaning. He called all republicans "uncool" and that half the world "hates us." That's the most asinine thiing I've ever heard. If you really believe that, then you're just as bad as a racist. I support Bush with every ounce of my body, but I have tons of friends who vote Kerry, including forum members and even staff here. I can dispute it with them, but I don't HATE them. You're just reinforcing the stereotype that already exists that Liberals are hateful, irrationally radical, and ignorantly vocal.

For as much negative conotation that goes along with Christians forcing their views upon people, you don't have to look any farther than this thread to find much more extreme political examples.

I don't really care what the hell you are, you can be whatever, muslim, christian, chatolic. I don't care and i accept it. But i just think what is lost thanks to religion is really sad. Cause religion is an impulse to explain and understand what we don't know, it exists cause we as people need something to believe in. And that's why it's extremly dangerous and can and is very often used against us when it's exploited (like Bush does). And there it comes with all the solutions and all the guiding for all of the lost souls on how to live there lifes(just like Bush to). When instead those impulses to understand and explain the world could be used to actually get some real understanding for the world. And there's also been proven and done researches that states that moral is something we're born with, which means we don't need anyone to tell us how to live or what to do. Everyone won't start to kill eachother all of a sidden just because there's no religion. I think religion is something that can exist because first of all, tradition and second of all, seeing people hating eachother and killing eachother every day really confuses people i think and that's where religion comes in. And i just think it's weird and sad really that the world looks like that, and that people don't seem to believe in themselves or eachother really. And i also do believe religion takes our purest impulses of solidarity, compassion, celebration of the wonder and mystey of our lifes. And often it seperates people. Which is all sad to i think. And that's why i don't like religion. I don't need people telling me what to do and i don't believe some god to believe in. I believe in the people around me worth believing in instead. But that's just me. And i don't hate you either....although you do have shitty reviews.....just kidding, they're awesome.

And for the "half of the world hates you", i don't get how that's rascist at all...At least were i live (Europe) Bush and the U.S. are very unpopular, although hate may be a little strong word. And i doubt you're that popular among the islamic and arabic countries either. And i'm not hateful at all, it's just that this election really concerns me and the whole earth with Bush and the U.S current policies. It affects the whole damn world, but there's nothing i can do about it really, and that's fucking frustrating(i can't even vote, although it affects me). And i want bigger things really for this world, and i am radical. I have my ideologies and ideas and i'm tired of discussing things that are pretty obvious and easy to understand to me. And to have to discuss them over and over again with people who understands nothing about them or knows anything about them makes you look irrational in their eyes. What you could do is instead of reinforcing the conservative stereotype, is to try to understand them and actually realise that there are other ways.

Peace

[Scott Weber]

Our intellegence predicted 9/11 ..... and there are many writers who have been saying for YEARS something like this was coming, even Clinton's administration told the Dubya administration that something was brewing. Stop ignoring things that are contrary to what you want to believe.

If that's true, than 9/11 would have happened no matter who was in office. Bush was in office for 9 months before the attack. It certainly would have happened to Gore.

[tyais]

I agree with you, I have taken lots of econ classes, but the reason why econ alone doesn't run the world is because there are morals that need to be applied as well. A straight philosopher can't run the world any better or worse than a straight economist can. That's the point.

I follow you and basically agree. (Though I believe it was Plato who would rail on you for saying a philosopher shouldn't run the world... Plato or Aristotle.)

However, the more restrictions you place on what people earn, the "lazier" people become. In a "perfect world" (I know we don't live in it...) if you were 100% socialist or communist, no one would want to work. In a perfect world, if you were 100% free market, assuming intervention upon monopolies and making sure that their is free and available information, people would produce at their maximum... creating a thriving atmosphere.