I <3 Subliminal Messages

[Jared Kaufman]

A little message from Max of Say Anything (http://www.sayanythingmusic.com):

"VOTE FOR FUCKING KERRY OR WE'RE DOOMED"

Submitted By TJ Wells

[twe]

i did that without Max telling me.

[steve-0]

laaaaaame

[JIMMYateEARTH]

AHH max always the open minded one, I still love him

[em0_stars]

Hmmm.....

[skotmxpx]

We're screwed either way.

[popdisaster00]

shibby.

[Chevyman803]

"VOTE FOR FUCKING BUSH OR WE'RE DOOMED"

Does this have the same affect on you if I say this? Sorry I'm not in band so my ideas mean 10x less. HAVE A GOOD DAY!

[maledixtion]

Shut the fuck up. Bush better win.

[em0_stars]

Shut the fuck up. Bush better win.

oh so that was the subliminal message.

[ActorInThisPlay]

wow that was a very ignorant statement...vote for whoever you feel will do the best job...Bush, Kerry, Nader, etc...don't listen to ignorant people like this and base your decisions on what they say.

[twe]

wow that was a very ignorant statement...vote for whoever you feel will do the best job...Bush, Kerry, Nader, etc...don't listen to ignorant people like this and base your decisions on what they say.
i wonder what Nader would do if he won... i bet he would die because of a heart attack.

[Yeti777]

The Redskins lost their last game. Bush loses.

[Greg]

being opinionated doesnt mean you're ignorant. i don't agree with max but it's cool if that's what he wants to do. but yea he should realize tons of kids will see that. and if its important to him he should keep it more chill and be like "go vote or we are doomed" i dunno. just be more subtle....

[isitmeisittrue]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

[Greg]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

i am also voting for bush. i'm about to go do it right now in fact. first time i get to vote. kind of exciting.... kinda like first time to the dentist... haha

[bromuda]

What gives bands the right to feel the need to get on their political soap-box? I just don't understand this.

[maledixtion]

A little message from Max of Say Anything (http://www.sayanythingmusic.com):

"VOTE FOR FUCKING KERRY OR WE'RE DOOMED"

Submitted By TJ Wells
Define "Doomed". Even if Bush was as bad as everyone says, we are hardly doomed. Germany had Hitler, and they are far from doomed. The people of Iraq were doomed with Saddam commiting religious genocide. But I guess a Jewish life is worth more than a Shi'ite Muslim's life...

[i2ockbotm]

I love Say Anything as a band, but to just spout indie rhetoric like that is really demeaning.

[The Don]

What gives bands the right to feel the need to get on their political soap-box? I just don't understand this.

Exactly. And Hollywood too. If somebody is going to vote for a candidate because Ashton Kutcher backs him, that person should never even be allowed near the voting booth.

[Scott Weber]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

amen.

[left_punk]

Bush, Kerry
either way we're still doomed

Vote for No One!

[crayZbuzzard]

Vote for Bush or we're doomed. John Kerry is the fucking manchurian candidate.

[Scott Weber]

Vote for Bush or we're doomed. John Kerry is the fucking manchurian candidate.

lol. You know, I keep thinking about that ever since I saw that movie...Kerry really is a puppet, and I think if he gets in office and all of a sudden we'll be required to use Heinz ketchup only.

[PunkRocks]

I wouldn't really mind if Say Anything was doomed.

**shrugs**

[KarolaBloch]

I hope Bush wins

and so that all the liberals go crazy and run around in circles and have their heads blow up... no but for real..
this is a real story and its not all liberals.. but a lot. But at my school my girlfriend has a bush sticker on her car and someone has torn it off 3 times. and one day she had a bush sign over her locker and these hippies took it and trashed it and threw it away. it really bugs me because liberals are so " freedom of speech" " oh we beleive in tolerance" " embrace differences and respects others beliefs." but they never do... its stupid.. this bug anyone else?

[FiTH Dan]

what the hell is with all this anti bush stuff, shut the hell up about it already. Bands need to focus on the music and stuff, we dont care about your politcal views. And why are we "doomed" if buish is president. I dont care what the hell the say anything guy says but if bush is reelected it wont affect him in any way. Just thought id put my two cents in.

[AnonomusVsCA]

lol. You know, I keep thinking about that ever since I saw that movie...Kerry really is a puppet, and I think if he gets in office and all of a sudden we'll be required to use Heinz ketchup only.
kerry is a puppet? that has to be the funniest thing i have heard all week.

[twe]

what the hell is with all this anti bush stuff, shut the hell up about it already. Bands need to focus on the music and stuff, we dont care about your politcal views. And why are we "doomed" if buish is president. I dont care what the hell the say anything guy says but if bush is reelected it wont affect him in any way. Just thought id put my two cents in.
it will most definitely have some affect on him. it will have an affect on all of us. and you say "music and stuff", what's this other stuff? music and politics go together quite well if you ask me.

[xbrokendownx]

Vote for Bush or we're doomed. John Kerry is the fucking manchurian candidate.


LMAO awesome sig man.


and max, STFU. no one cares who youre voting for, dont try and influence people

[dillonzach86]

One reason that I hope Bush wins is that we won't have to listen to Fat Mike or Punkvoter.com anymore. He uses his leverage in Nofx to brainwash the punk community.

[PunkDrums182]

Vote for Bush or we're doomed. John Kerry is the fucking manchurian candidate.
ROFL

[PunkDrums182]

i love you buzzard

[i2ockbotm]

One reason that I hope Bush wins is that we won't have to listen to Fat Mike or Punkvoter.com anymore. He uses his leverage in Nofx to brainwash the punk community.


Shit, I didn't think about that. I might vote Kerry just to lower the chance that we'll be subjected to another NOFX political album.

[The Bled 13]

Fuck Bush, and fuck all of you that assume that people vote based on what celebrities have to say. How fucking ignorant are you? I can't believe how many of you actually stand behind Bush. Give me one good fucking reason. Do you not remember that at one time we supported Hussein and that at the beginning of this fucking administration high ranking officials such as Condolezza Rice were saying that Hussein HAD no weapons of mass destruction?

George Bush and Dick Cheney represent what is wrong with America today - that greed overcomes eithics.

Are you going to stand by a president that puts his own personal buisness before the American people?

How many more bridges are you going to let these two assholes burn?

Didn't we fund/give arms to Hussein at one point? Who is the flip-flop now?

Don't let your partisan ignorance blind you to the facts. Bush is not a good president.

Besides, I'm not worried. Most of the younger age group that supports Bush won't vote, and if they do, they have no valid reasoning to support Bush, they simply say - he's gay, or ugly, or sucks dick, or is a pussy: which none of these apply to his platform. So hopefully you understand as I do, Bush is not a good president.

[bleedingemo]

lol. You know, I keep thinking about that ever since I saw that movie...Kerry really is a puppet, and I think if he gets in office and all of a sudden we'll be required to use Heinz ketchup only.

if you think Bush isn't a puppet, you need to do some background checking on a man named Karl Rove and also a little company that went belly up called Enron.

Also, to whoever said that all the media and hollywood is liberal, you obviously have no intelligence whatsoever, so i refuse to debate that point with you.

[The Bled 13]

And if you have ANYTHING to say to that. I'll answer it here. I honestly believe that John McCain would be a much better president than either of these two. But I'm not going to let a man that has fucked over our country and pissed off so many people be our president for another four years. Don't be so partisan. Because it isn't effecting you know, think 4 more years down the road. How could things get any better?

WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T WE CAUGHT BIN LADIN?

HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU FEEL ANY SAFER?

[The Bled 13]

It makes me sick that people tell celebrities to shut up when they make an opinon.

Politics isn't a trend and hollywood isn't just "picking" up on it. Read you're fucking history books. Muhammad Ali? Their were tons of "political" celebs and atheletes.

[AnonomusVsCA]

yes, please shut up bush lovers.

[makebelieve327]

and max, STFU. no one cares who youre voting for, dont try and influence people

actually, i don't believe max is attempting to influence people. i'm not in his head, but if you scroll down on the news section of their site (where this was taken from), he has a bunch of rants and opinionated blogs.

[westsidas2000]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority
no the media isn't the majority. Morons make up the majority in America. Ask EVERYBODY else in the world. I'm sick of our country looking like a retarded cowboy to the rest of the world.

[Lueda Alia]

Fuck Bush, and fuck all of you that assume that people vote based on what celebrities have to say. How fucking ignorant are you? I can't believe how many of you actually stand behind Bush. Give me one good fucking reason. Do you not remember that at one time we supported Hussein and that at the beginning of this fucking administration high ranking officials such as Condolezza Rice were saying that Hussein HAD no weapons of mass destruction?

George Bush and Dick Cheney represent what is wrong with America today - that greed overcomes eithics.

Are you going to stand by a president that puts his own personal buisness before the American people?

How many more bridges are you going to let these two assholes burn?

Didn't we fund/give arms to Hussein at one point? Who is the flip-flop now?

Don't let your partisan ignorance blind you to the facts. Bush is not a good president.

Besides, I'm not worried. Most of the younger age group that supports Bush won't vote, and if they do, they have no valid reasoning to support Bush, they simply say - he's gay, or ugly, or sucks dick, or is a pussy: which none of these apply to his platform. So hopefully you understand as I do, Bush is not a good president.

I LOVE YOU BABE!! haha

no seriously. <3333333

[Lueda Alia]

if you think Bush isn't a puppet, you need to do some background checking on a man named Karl Rove and also a little company that went belly up called Enron.

Also, to whoever said that all the media and hollywood is liberal, you obviously have no intelligence whatsoever, so i refuse to debate that point with you.
*claps*

[track1side2]

A little message from Max of Say Anything (http://www.sayanythingmusic.com):

"VOTE FOR FUCKING KERRY OR WE'RE DOOMED"

Submitted By TJ Wells
well, i was going to vote bush, but i'll take the word of a self-absorbed, verbose musician and change my vote. .. right. bush 4 lyfe!

[The Bled 13]

^^ When are you going to let that go? Half of this fucking world agrees that Bush is a terrible president. Are you going to mock them?

Well, if you do that you'd be taking a pretty good stance because in this bright democracy we don't give a fuck about burning bridges.

[westsidas2000]

what's kind of kool is that democrats can have a tendency to sometimes vote republican, but a retard will always vote republican no matter what.

[The Bled 13]

I <3 narrowminded people! TE hehe.

Woops. Is that an assumption? That you are narrowminded? I'm not sure, your making my case quite legitimate. He is voicing his opinion. Let it be.

[The Bled 13]

what's kind of kool is that democrats can have a tendency to sometimes vote republican, but a retard will always vote republican no matter what.

Ah-hem, like more than the majority of republicans on this board. Just to damn partisan to vote for a Dem. Or they say Zell Miller, haha.

Anyways, John McCain would make an excellent president.

[The Bled 13]

In fact, yes, this is actual truth. I voted for a republican today.

[Lueda Alia]

what's kind of kool is that democrats can have a tendency to sometimes vote republican, but a retard will always vote republican no matter what.
some people need to realize that their country comes before the party.

[westsidas2000]

some people need to realize that their country comes before the party.
hey i choose candidates based solely on who's NOT going to send me to my death in a foreign country.

[fluke182]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority
I <3 you, for your great opinion and for the fact Elisha Cuthbert is in your avatar.

[ratzcrackers]

Reading this thread, you would never guess that this country is rooted in the belief of free speech and tolerance of others' opinions.

[IAPAI]

I think (I don't know) that the reason that celebrities, bands, etc. endorse politicians isn't to dictate how their fans should vote, but it would inspire them to be more interested in the electoral system as a whole. Sure, Max just spouted off what some may call a "command", but look at what it triggered: political discussion. So in the end, isn't it the people accusing narrowmindedness the ones who are narrowminded themselves?

[Lemieux66]

Reading this thread, you would never guess that this country is rooted in the belief of free speech and tolerance of others' opinions.


Or the belief of not making consecutive posts.

[XxLoserDanxX]

wow so yea, um I already voted for Bush, for reason in which I do not want to go into, but what really sealed it, is the fact that Kerry did go to vietnam, and when he got back he denounced the military and the war, now he was stated in saying "i defended this nation as a young man, and i will defend it as your president". wow so hypocritical. I truely hope Bush wins.

[Badgers08]

Bush...

god i hope Kerry doesnt win

[fatrabbit]

wow.. reading this thread makes me scared of the results. =/

i voted last week.. dumb absentee ballots. i wanted to pull the lever too!

[grnweenieag]

hey i choose candidates based solely on who's NOT going to send me to my death in a foreign country.

umm...are you in the military or are you enlisting in the military? im voting for Kerry but i truley believe that there wont be a draft with whoever is elected....plus if u go to school you wont be drafted anyway

[XxLoserDanxX]

umm...are you in the military or are you enlisting in the military? im voting for Kerry but i truley believe that there wont be a draft with whoever is elected....plus if u go to school you wont be drafted anyway


according to the recent draft brought up by democrats, it would allow 1st and 2nd year college students to be drafted. it also made it illegal for any Male US citizen who could be drafted to dodge the draft by moving to any foreign country. also claiming you have asthema, bad knees, bad back, wont work. And if you claim you're gay, you're then to be seen by a psychiactrist (spelling?). yep thats the draft that was brought up by the democrats ...

[brian_midnight]

not true

if there is a draft, freshman, sophomores, and juniors will be allowed to finish the semester. seniors will be allowed to finish the year.

www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

read it and weep bitches. have fun trying to get into canada...

oh and check out the signatures at the bottom of the page

this is what happens when a country puts their fate in the hands of politicians

[maledixtion]

yes, please shut up bush lovers.
You win the award for most ignorant person on the boards. Only one side should be expressed, riiiiight.

[maledixtion]

what's kind of kool is that democrats can have a tendency to sometimes vote republican, but a retard will always vote republican no matter what.
Not true. I've voted democrat before.

[brian_midnight]

"to spread democracy through the barrel of a gun is to undermine it."

[maledixtion]

Here is TJ from Spitalfield's comment on the election:
"Voting is just silly.
well, here are my choice's:

-half-dead, rich, white man .1
OR
-half-dead, rich, white man .2

suck my balls gideon yago."

[SomePerson22]

i voted this morning for kerry, my first time. it was so exciting. i'm a bit nervous though. i agree with kerry on most of the issues and i don't agree with the way the past four years went at all, but a part of me feels i should have just voted bush and let him finish what he started. i know i'll feel bad if kerry barely wins and then fucks up because my vote helped elect him... i hate talking politics though so i'll end it there. (please don't bash me for being stupid, i'm not into politics like all of you are, as you can tell.)


jesus christ people, don't get so pissy about max posting that on his own bands' site. it's no different than what every other musician and celebrity has been doing.

[Jerm]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

totally agree.... and i really like say anything as a band but i would really like to hear how we are doomed.....

[YoSoyElJosh]

Okay, firstly, Bush is as much a puppet as Kerry, but probably more so. Secondly, don't re-elect the guy who fucked up because you think he'll fix it. Thirdly, to the kid complaining about ripping off Bush stickers, we have the same problem here, except the conservatives are ripping off the liberal stickers, so don't think you're the only victim here. There are asshole on both sides of the fence.

And I agree with Max.

[westsidas2000]

both candidates are capable of instating a draft. But to instate a draft, you have to be fighting a pretty large scale war. And my belief is bush is more likely to go to war. but then again kerry's such a flip a flopper right?

[westsidas2000]

Not true. I've voted democrat before.
i'm basing that on a recent poll i read where 11% of democrats will be voting bush, while 2% of rep, will be voting kerry.

[topdownseatback]

PLEASE stop using this stupid stat about how the redskins performance correlates with the winner of the presidency. as someone who likes statistics, this bothers me. first of all: the sample size is way too small. they're careful to use the redskins last HOME game. most likely, that's because if you took every redskins game before an election, you'd have no interesting factoid. so they're doctoring the data already. i could create a million false correlations if i use this methodology.

[juan_believes]

i am so glad i live in canada

[iloveyouandyou]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....

[maledixtion]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....
dude, your not helping...

[kissbangkill]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....

shut the fuck up and die please.

[Jared Kaufman]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....
I thought Kerry wasn't an advocate of gay marriage either. Am I wrong?

[Ambulance X]

Vote for bush

[i2ockbotm]

I thought Kerry wasn't an advocate of gay marriage either. Am I wrong?

Due to his Catholic background, he doesn't approve it. I still think he plans on legalizing it anyway.

[rocksolidgurl]

actually, i don't believe max is attempting to influence people. i'm not in his head, but if you scroll down on the news section of their site (where this was taken from), he has a bunch of rants and opinionated blogs.

I have to agree with you. Sure, Max seems pretty forceful in posting his opinion, but if you read his other posts, you'll see that it's been that way for a while, and it seems pretty consistent. And like someone else said (too lazy to find it and quote it), Max's post got a lot of people to come and talk about politics, which is pretty much the whole point, I think. When bands voice their opinions on politics, for the most part what it's going to do is interest people in doing some research and learning about the issues. People who are stupid enough to vote for a candidate just because a band tells them to most likely aren't going to be old enough to vote in the first place. People who already were going to vote for Kerry will agree with Max, and his post will reinforce their opinion. People who were going to vote for Bush will disagree with Max and maybe lose a little bit of respect for him. But hey, I'd rather have a musician who is opinionated and knows what's going on in the world than one who doesn't care.

And to the people who say bands shouldn't get on political soapboxes: How is it any different for a band to voice their opinion than it is for a normal person like you or I? The only difference is that they have a little bit bigger of a stage on which to speak. They shouldn't be forced to keep their opinions to themselves just because they're in a business where what they have to say can be heard.

[maledixtion]

Due to his Catholic background, he doesn't approve it. I still think he plans on legalizing it anyway.
Actually, no. He is against it and doesn't want to legalize it. He DOES however not support it's ban being turned into an amendment.

[soreloser]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....


This is by far the stupidest, most ignorant statement ive seen so far in this thread... and there have been a lot.

If you're going to make an outrageous statement like that, atleast back it up with factual statements. Tell me how Hitler and Kerry have the same views... I'd honestly like to know.

I personally think that Kerry should win because Bush went into Iraq for no good reason, other than personal gains. Yes, Saddam is a bad person... and he needed to be stopped, but this act of war is only going to spur on MUCH more violence then what was going on prior to the war on Iraq. On the news this morning, they had Iraqi's screaming at the cameras saying that they were much better off when Saddam was in power than they are right now.

Unfortunately, I believe that there are more ignorant, war hungry americans then there are intelligent, peaceful americans. Therefore, there is a good chance Bush will win. I wish that I could have a vote, but alas I am a Canadian and don't get a chance to contribute to John Kerry's team.

This is the way I feel. If you want to comment on this post... please do not say something like "GO SUCK BALSL#t&^#%.. BUSH 4 LYFE" or you will only prove my point even more.

[i2ockbotm]

Actually, no. He is against it and doesn't want to legalize it. He DOES however not support it's ban being turned into an amendment.
Oh okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[EmoTorture]

Everyone that posts on this message board is too young to vote.

[surgical]

wow, things have changed. if someone would've said "VOTE REAGAN" at a punk show 20 years ago, they'd be strung up. but then, things have changed, haven't they? genres have changed, and so have demographics. the punk scene isn't made up of urban malcontents, suburban rebels, indie academics, and anarchist scuzzballs like it once was, no, today we have the comfortable middle class of suburbia waving the 'punk' flag. idiot kids raised on their parents ideals, SUV's, and cushy schools, claiming allegiance to an obsolete subculture without knowing a thing about it. you didn't choose conservative or liberal, your parents did, and now you're too fucking lazy to educate yourself beyond your father's smallminded rants at the dinner table.

anyway, in short, i'm disgusted. i'm disgusted that such a large portion of America's youth has absolutely no clue what's really going on the world. there's a reason why the conservative party's base is white and male, there's a reason why the liberal party houses so many minorities. think outside yourself for a moment, and maybe choose a candidate that will help those who need it.

[soreloser]

wow, things have changed. if someone would've said "VOTE REAGAN" at a punk show 20 years ago, they'd be strung up. but then, things have changed, haven't they? genres have changed, and so have demographics. the punk scene isn't made up of urban malcontents, suburban rebels, indie academics, and anarchist scuzzballs like it once was, no, today we have the comfortable middle class of suburbia waving the 'punk' flag. idiot kids raised on their parents ideals, SUV's, and cushy schools, claiming allegiance to an obsolete subculture without knowing a thing about it. you didn't choose conservative or liberal, your parents did, and now you're too fucking lazy to educate yourself beyond your father's smallminded rants at the dinner table.

anyway, in short, i'm disgusted. i'm disgusted that such a large portion of America's youth has absolutely no clue what's really going on the world. there's a reason why the conservative party's base is white and male, there's a reason why the liberal party houses so many minorities. think outside yourself for a moment, and maybe choose a candidate that will help those who need it.

I agree. So few of our youths actually know about the politics at all and they just follow what their parents believe in. Sure, the music has changed but I think that the beliefs that punk was founded on should stay true, these were things like fighting against the government and knowing whats going on in the world. You can't claim to be a part of this if you know absolutely nothing.

[Stephen]

Do any of you Bush Supporters watch anything other than FOX? Or actually know anything about how much he had fucked this country??? Because if you cared to actually look into the issues you would realize Bush is a fucking retarded and has done nothing to warrent giving him a second term

[foreverfallen]

How about JUST VOTE. I don't care who you vote for (I already voted earlier today), but you should vote no matter what--and at least try to make it an informed decision (that'd always be nice). Who cares what someone else says. But don't let all the retards make you not want to vote. Empowerment starts somewhere.

[Nashional]

The Republican National Committee announced today that the Republican Party is changing its emblem from an elephant to a condom. The committee chairman explained that the condom more clearly reflects the party's stance today, because a condom accepts inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually getting screwed

[Ambulance X]

If you're going to make an outrageous statement like that, atleast back it up with factual statements. Tell me how Hitler and Kerry have the same views... I'd honestly like to know.

I personally think that Kerry should win because Bush went into Iraq for no good reason, other than personal gains. Yes, Saddam is a bad person... and he needed to be stopped, but this act of war is only going to spur on MUCH more violence then what was going on prior to the war on Iraq. On the news this morning, they had Iraqi's screaming at the cameras saying that they were much better off when Saddam was in power than they are right now.

Unfortunately, I believe that there are more ignorant, war hungry americans then there are intelligent, peaceful americans. Therefore, there is a good chance Bush will win. I wish that I could have a vote, but alas I am a Canadian and don't get a chance to contribute to John Kerry's team.


Actually, Bush is much more like Hitler than Kerry (I say this voting for Bush tonight) in the sense that they are both severe idealogues. They both have/had very stong ideologies. Hitler just happened to have the ideology of purifyng his race and creating an society composed of ubermensch. Bush is muuuuch further from the right than Hitler was though obviously. His idealogy consists of making this society much more "Christian" (This is horrible. I am on the side of liberals in this regard, but Bush's foreign policy is much much better than Kerry's, and thus I can stomach the christian propaganda). Was Hitler a rational leader? YES. He did what he believed to be best for his country and to get his preferences. Is Bush rational? YES. Same deal. Is Kerry rational? YES. In my opinion, however, his plans for foreign policy won't work.

[Driveitthrough]

The Republican National Committee announced today that the Republican Party is changing its emblem from an elephant to a condom. The committee chairman explained that the condom more clearly reflects the party's stance today, because a condom accepts inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually getting screwed


haha.

[LoyalSubject]

subtle Max very subtle

[Ambulance X]

Do any of you Bush Supporters watch anything other than FOX? Or actually know anything about how much he had fucked this country??? Because if you cared to actually look into the issues you would realize Bush is a fucking retarded and has done nothing to warrent giving him a second term

Shut up, have you even watched these debates? Kerry will fuck the US over severely. Especially w/ North Korea. I would love to vote a democrat into office, as I am pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, and i think homosexuals should be able to do whatever they want. Liberals will just screw us over on the international level too much to warrant letting them into office though.

[Underoath]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

your reasons for voting make no sense whatsoever. there is no rational behind your statement, you do not pass go, you do not collect $200. the majority are yuppie pigs like you who don't care about the issues and go on their personal ideology... and furthermore, kerry is gonna be the new guy with the diplomatic ties so that the rest of the world finally builds some respect for us again so this doesn't become like vietnam. liberal media? CNN is just about the most liberal news network we get in the US. unless you get BBC, you're pretty fucked with a lot of partizan bullshit

[soreloser]

Shut up, have you even watched these debates? Kerry will fuck the US over severely. Especially w/ North Korea. I would love to vote a democrat into office, as I am pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, and i think homosexuals should be able to do whatever they want. Liberals will just screw us over on the international level too much to warrant letting them into office though.

Why do you think Kerry will be any worse then Bush with dealing with North Korea? I don't think that Bush has the guts to stand up to North Korea. Sure, he beat up on a couple weak, defenseless countries but when it comes to a country with actual power... I don't see him going against them because he is spineless... and they don't have oil.

[normitron]

what are you 14? you have no idea what youre talking about. you have no idea of the real world, youre spouting stereotypes like they are the bible truth (theres an oxymoron for ya).

Try living in the real world where you cant get a job because its been out sourced to india. Tell the pregant rape victim that she has live with giving birth to a child brought by violence not love and have the choice to have control over what goes on inside her body taken away. Tell yourself in a few years when you get drafted and are forced to fight a war that we are in BECAUSE WE WERE LIED TO. One of these days once the fiction that is high school is over, the real world will slap you in face and say HERE I AM. Will it fuck you in the ass? because thats what bush is working for. making himself money by making it easier for his oil companies to get oil and cheneys alrady raking in a fortune throuhg halliburton.

do you know why artist are out there speaking their minds? well first of all most of them are more open minded about change than most people. its an after effect of creativity and especially in the underground where music is still an art and not a packaged good, ideas thrive. Artists share said ideas. Nad thats where you should listen and stop and think about it. Use your mind. Close out the bullshit that is american media bullshit and find out whats going on for yourself.

Most of you werent around 4 years ago. You were busy watching sesame street and pokemon. In 6 days I'll be 25. 4 years ago, no one really cared who won in the underground, there was some commentary but wahtever.

Then everything went to hell in a hand basket and Bush was carrying it. A ruckus of this level hasnt happened in a long time and thats what you people are not getting. You need to stop and think not about the fact that people are standing up and speaking out, but WHY are there so damn many of them?

Seriously. Doesnt it strike you as ODD that soooooo many people are upset? If so many people are upset, doesn't it make you think that something is WRONG?

Playing ostrich wont save you. But if you've actually but if you've actually spent time thinking and processing and learning about wahts going on and you still vote bush... well then good for you, you've made the effort and an informed decision.

Its just from reading what you people are posting thats pro bush is nothing but regurgitations of propoghanda that shows that you've doen nothing but take what others have said and spit it out as your own idea.

Oven worse, take the idiotic antics of immature highshool kids and make a decision based upon that.

Well if Bush wins. Good luck. Youre going to need it.

And I hope he reinstates the draft, because I'll be ineligable.

One last tidbit for thought. If the war wasnt going on, would you STILL vote for Bush?

I hope Bush wins

and so that all the liberals go crazy and run around in circles and have their heads blow up... no but for real..
this is a real story and its not all liberals.. but a lot. But at my school my girlfriend has a bush sticker on her car and someone has torn it off 3 times. and one day she had a bush sign over her locker and these hippies took it and trashed it and threw it away. it really bugs me because liberals are so " freedom of speech" " oh we beleive in tolerance" " embrace differences and respects others beliefs." but they never do... its stupid.. this bug anyone else?

[Ambulance X]

Why do you think Kerry will be any worse then Bush with dealing with North Korea? I don't think that Bush has the guts to stand up to North Korea. Sure, he beat up on a couple weak, defenseless countries but when it comes to a country with actual power... I don't see him going against them because he is spineless... and they don't have oil.

Kerry wants to Eliminate countries besides the US from talks with North Korea (especially China). This just will not work. Being an upcoming superpower, and a neighboring country to Korea, China has ALOT of clout in negotiating with N. Korea.

[westsidas2000]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....
ya dude man!!!! kerry's such a jew hater, and he fuckin invades all these countries and shit!! good job pointing that out!
bahahahaha.

[ForeverInADay]

Bush, Kerry
either way we're still doomed

Vote for No One!
i hope Kerry wins.

what would happen if NO BODY voted one year? would we just keep the same president from the past four years? or would there be another campaigne?

[Ambulance X]

Seriously. Doesnt it strike you as ODD that soooooo many people are upset? If so many people are upset, doesn't it make you think that something is WRONG?

Ohhhhh, soooo many people think it's wrong. I guess i should just hop on the fucking bandwaggon then. Hang on let me toss on some Good Charlotte as i wear my Simple Plan shirt and hop on the Kerry Bandwagon because sooo many people are doing it.

You are ignorant

[westsidas2000]

Kerry wants to Eliminate countried besides the US from talks with North Korea (especially China). This just will not work. Being an upcoming superpower, and a neighboring country to Korea, China has ALOT of clout in negotiating with N. Korea.
if you understand anything about china, you'd know that they're only doing this so u.s. doesn't invade korea, hence endangering china's borders. They don't really care if nk gains weapons. if they had it their way, the U.S. would stay out of nk's business.

[Underoath]

there is a lot of white-trash, wal-mart shoppin', facists (ie bush supporters) on absolutepunk forums

[aminorthreat55]

wow that was a very ignorant statement...vote for whoever you feel will do the best job...Bush, Kerry, Nader, etc...don't listen to ignorant people like this and base your decisions on what they say.

No it wasn't, being ignorant would be voting for Kerry because Max of Say Anything said to.

[westsidas2000]

This is by far the stupidest, most ignorant statement ive seen so far in this thread... and there have been a lot.

If you're going to make an outrageous statement like that, atleast back it up with factual statements. Tell me how Hitler and Kerry have the same views... I'd honestly like to know.

I personally think that Kerry should win because Bush went into Iraq for no good reason, other than personal gains. Yes, Saddam is a bad person... and he needed to be stopped, but this act of war is only going to spur on MUCH more violence then what was going on prior to the war on Iraq. On the news this morning, they had Iraqi's screaming at the cameras saying that they were much better off when Saddam was in power than they are right now.

Unfortunately, I believe that there are more ignorant, war hungry americans then there are intelligent, peaceful americans. Therefore, there is a good chance Bush will win. I wish that I could have a vote, but alas I am a Canadian and don't get a chance to contribute to John Kerry's team.

This is the way I feel. If you want to comment on this post... please do not say something like "GO SUCK BALSL#t&^#%.. BUSH 4 LYFE" or you will only prove my point even more.
I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure he made that comment as a joke. kinda like that guy who said "Citizen Kane" ripped off the Matrix, just to see what other people would reply with.

[Ambulance X]

if you understand anything about china, you'd know that they're only doing this so u.s. doesn't invade korea, hence endangering china's borders. They don't really care if nk gains weapons. if they had it their way, the U.S. would stay out of nk's business.

Yeah, because we all know China is so scared of the US having a stronghold close to their border (we already have South Korea, so intervening with North Korea would hardly threaten China). But anyway, do you really think this? Why would the US invade/attack china when it is one of our biggest trading partners???

Learn to think.

[aminorthreat55]

Shut up, have you even watched these debates? Kerry will fuck the US over severely. Especially w/ North Korea. I would love to vote a democrat into office, as I am pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, and i think homosexuals should be able to do whatever they want. Liberals will just screw us over on the international level too much to warrant letting them into office though.

Yeah because Bill Clinton really sucked at foreign policy and George Bush is amazing at it, oh wait . . .

[Ambulance X]

Yeah because Bill Clinton really sucked at foreign policy and George Bush is amazing at it, oh wait . . .

Clinton's foreign policy was horrible. "Hang on, I'm coming under fire for getting a BJ from monica in the oval office. Let me launch some missles, and make some explosions to distract people."

And all Bush Sr. did was win the Gulf War with next to no casualties.

you are right, that is a great point

Nice one

[TENCopeland]

I felt the need to address those who call other people ignorant, and then proceed with some of the most ignorant statements on this board. First off, we're fighting a bullshit war and we'll see that when we get drafted? I don't know if you're dumb or just ignoring the truth, there is no Draft. A bill was just recently voted down, neither candidate supports a draft. Second of all, Kerry has the diplomatic ties to earn respect for our country again? Let me make something clear, we have respect, we're just not well-liked. This is not because of anything we have done, but rather who we are. Anyone who truly believes France, Germany, and Russia are our allies are severely misguided. All 3 of those countries had interests in Iraq and it is proven they were never going to vote for military action. When you are the world leader, you are never liked because you are either doing too little or too much. And to the person who called Bush supporters white-trash, facsists: I pity your soul, because you are the most ignorant person on this board. At least some people have rationale whether it be wrong, or just difference of opinion. You, on the other hand are just a close-minded, stereotyping ignoramus. It's people like you that give the Democratic party a bad name.

[AreTwoKay]

The Redskins lost their last game. Bush loses.
i hope that holds true

[Scott Weber]

Seriously. Doesnt it strike you as ODD that soooooo many people are upset?



you mean half the country? There's 2 sides to it, and once again, i am witnessing failure to realize that. The Bled13 flipped out that half the country thinks Bush is a terrible president. I don't agree with that, I don't think you can say that 100% of all people voting Kerry think Bush is a terrible president. Once again, a skewed and irrational claim thrown out by a fist-shaking liberal, who is so full of fury that he can't even see straight.



And I hope he reinstates the draft, because I'll be ineligable.

One last tidbit for thought. If the war wasnt going on, would you STILL vote for Bush?



First off, where do you come up with this shit? The only talk of reinstating a draft has come from the democratic party, NOT Bush's administration. Bush has been crystal clear on expressing that he will not reinstate the draft. Kerry hasn't been *as* clear, but the democratic bill to reinstate was shot down by a huge majority in congress. I really don't think we're going to see a draft either way, but definitely not with Bush.

And 2nd point, yes, I would vote for Bush if we weren't in war. I believe in Bush's policies, he's done a good job recovering the economy after the uncontrollable events of 9/11. The economy fluctuates, the market was in bad shape before he even entered it, and the loss of lives, jobs, and money after 9/11 started a downward spiral in the economy. Fingers are pointed at Bush for this, but he really didn't have any control. Instead, he estimated the damages, worked a plan to recover the economy, and it is going back up much more than anybody expected. Once again, liberals being blinded by hatred while listening to bullshit facts Kerry and the media feed them. You might want to reference this page (hosted by CNN, about as liberal as it gets for mainstream media) to check the actual ahem, truth to your "facts". Many of the arguments I hear are simply lies or falsified numbers.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/bush.factcheck/index.html

I believe in Bush's Health Care plan. I believe in his plan for education. I agree with George Bush on his socioeconomic policies, while I disagree with the staunch liberal stance Kerry will take. Granted, Kerry really hasn't shown us much of any of his plans, besides promising benefits that will send us spiraling into even more national debt, increasing taxes to offset our losses. Kerry will launch this country into economic and foreign uncertainty. You can dwell on the past and Bush's mistakes all you want, but those are finished. We are here, right now. We HAVE to look towards the future, and what needs to be done has already been started by GW. He needs to finish it.
That's why I don't attack the credibility/consistency of Kerry as much as other conservatives do. Wanna talk about past decisions? Kerry tore into the Vietnam war, he raised the American Flag upside down, he was incredibly outspoken on how terrible the war was. Now he tells America that he is a war hero, and fought for our country with pride. I don't believe it.

A bit more long-winded than I originally intended, but I'm sure you get the point.

[pnkdrmr182]

does anyone posting here actually understand either candidates views? Does it bother anyone that Bush was quoted saying that he wished the US was a dictatorship, or that only devout christians belong in 'heaven'? George Bush is an evangelist, he fuses church and state in every policy decision he makes, this is something that was decidedly ineffective and invaluable centuries ago and does it bother anyone else that on the global list of population percentage of citizens who believe in evolution the United States is DEAD LAST, with good ol' GW right on top? Please people, go read a book, or at least take a field trip to an ivy league university and chat with some people, maybe i'll meet your here at cornell or maybe not but i can guarantee you if Kerry wins, the Iraq war will if not end get alot better and lives will stop being wasted for economic gain (do any of you know what 'sovereignty' means anyway?), the patriot act will be repealed and the phantom menace of terrorism will magically dissipate with the shroud of phantom fear over this country - and maybe ever our national debt of 500 billion dollars (which was a surplus of 500 billion dollars when bush took office) will get better, who knows, but Bush has been trying to force a conservative relgion on this country for four years and polls show that the number of citizens who think someone with a "good religious background" has jumped dramatically further elucidating the fact that very few people can judge anything for themselves without at least minorly (subconsciously perhaps) being effected by their 'leader' regardless of how blatantly ignorant and horribly self - serving he is. Of course, the American people grant the president a certain buffer zone, if you will, for greed and corruption - its the american way - but that minute buffer zone has been FAR exceeded by mr. moron. Did you know that on his first day in office he not only ignored literal terrorist threats but made it his top priority to but enormous censorship fines on nationwide radio stations and television channels? At least think about it before stuffing your own shit in your mouth.

[aminorthreat55]

Clinton's foreign policy was horrible. "Hang on, I'm coming under fire for getting a BJ from monica in the oval office. Let me launch some missles, and make some explosions to distract people."

And all Bush Sr. did was win the Gulf War with next to no casualties.

you are right, that is a great point

Nice one

I'm taking about George W. Bush, not H.W. And Bill Clinton did a pretty good job with the Middle East, I mean there was shit going on, and there always will be, but he did a lot over there to move towards peace. And the whole thing with Bosnia/Kosovo went pretty well, once again, always shit there.

[Ambulance X]

does anyone posting here actually understand either candidates views? Does it bother anyone that Bush was quoted saying that he wished the US was a dictatorship, or that only devout christians belong in 'heaven'? George Bush is an evangelist, he fuses church and state in every policy decision he makes, this is something that was decidedly ineffective and invaluable centuries ago and does it bother anyone else that on the global list of population percentage of citizens who believe in evolution the United States is DEAD LAST, with good ol' GW right on top? Please people, go read a book, or at least take a field trip to an ivy league university and chat with some people, maybe i'll meet your here at cornell or maybe not but i can guarantee you if Kerry wins, the Iraq war will if not end get alot better and lives will stop being wasted for economic gain (do any of you know what 'sovereignty' means anyway?), the patriot act will be repealed and the phantom menace of terrorism will magically dissipate with the shroud of phantom fear over this country - and maybe ever our national debt of 500 billion dollars (which was a surplus of 500 billion dollars when bush took office) will get better, who knows, but Bush has been trying to force a conservative relgion on this country for four years and polls show that the number of citizens who think someone with a "good religious background" has jumped dramatically further elucidating the fact that very few people can judge anything for themselves without at least minorly (subconsciously perhaps) being effected by their 'leader' regardless of how blatantly ignorant and horribly self - serving he is.

I completely agree with your statements about fusing religion and state. He spews so much religions propaganda, it's ridiculous.

But, that is a minor detail when you step back and look at the big picture. First of all, the deficit is not Bush's fault. The economy was set up for a decline before he took office. And IF you knew anyhting about how this country opperates, you would realize that the tax cuts taht Bush has enacted take TIME to work. There is no instant gratification. The tax cuts will stimulate the economy greatly within the next 4 years, and the economy will make a comeback (Just in time for some liberal to be elected, and claim the recent economic boom as his own doing.) And 9/11 didn't help the economy either obviously.

For some reason you think you are better than everyone else, and know more because you go to Cornell HAHA, well as mis-guided as your statements about the US economy are, I don't care if you go to Cornell, or SUNY Potsdam, you have a lot to learn.

[Ambulance X]

I'm taking about George W. Bush, not H.W. And Bill Clinton did a pretty good job with the Middle East, I mean there was shit going on, and there always will be, but he did a lot over there to move towards peace. And the whole thing with Bosnia/Kosovo went pretty well, once again, always shit there.

We can debate the job Dubya did w/ foreign affairs when his job is done after his next 4 years.

[Ambulance X]

This topic should not have been posted though lol this is
ABSOLUTEPUNK.NET!
I'm done w/ this topic.

[Lueda Alia]

I completely agree with your statements about fusing religion and state. He spews so much religions propaganda, it's ridiculous.

But, that is a minor detail when you step back and look at the big picture.

A minor detail???? When people can't get married? When girls can't have an abortion????


Oh okay, yes it sure is a minor details. PLEASE.

[Lueda Alia]

And btw, to whoever said that you are respected in the world just not "liked": think AGAIN. America has lost a lot of respect around the world with the Iraq War. And they will lose ALL that's left if Bush is re-elected.

[Sureshot182]

"i'm In A Band, So Tons Of Dumbasses Will Listen To Me...vote For Whoever The Fuck You Want To"

[road to joy]

hmm...i hear a lot of misinformation here. first of all, whoever said bush sr. won the gulf war...if he did indeed win the war, why did Saddam Hussein remain in power? like father, like son...both fucked up with their attempts at Iraq, only this time around, the Iraqi people have decided that they don't like being occupied so much.

Also, to whoever said that Kerry turned the flag upside down, this is true, but i assume that you don't know what it means, do you? Turning the flag upside down is an international symbol of distress; back in the days of overseas exploration, ships would turn their flags upside down on the mast if they were in trouble and needed help. Kerry did not burn a flag, he turned it upside down, meaning that he thought the country was in trouble, and it was (after all, we lost that war, remember?).

I don't understand either how anyone can call Kerry's change in opinion a bad thing. Okay, he did support the war. But what did he base his support on? Lies that were passed off as facts by our government (and if anyone wishes to refute this, or for that matter tell me the location of the WMDs that both the UN and our personal American weapons inspectors said DO NOT EXIST, please call me and then the white house, in that order). Are we to fault Kerry for making a decision based on what he believed to be fact? How would he have known that his own government would lie to him (once again, if anyone can find the connection between al queda and Saddam, two men who publicly HATED each other, call me immediately)?

And then, on top of everything, Kerry did something no politician ever does: he realized he made a mistake. So did he try to keep it quiet and lie about what was happening, did he attempt to keep charging forward even though he knew it was wrong? No. He changed his position and tried to correct his mistake. I call that doing the right thing, so please tell me how this so called "flip-flopping" is a bad thing, if all Kerry is doing is trying to correct a mistake that he made.

Also, I would like to hear how anyone thinks that a man who drank his way through the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War (oh wait, I can't prove that to you, because GEORGE W. BUSH HAS CLASSIFIED HIS OWN SERVICE RECORDS. interesting how the guy who dutifully served his country would classify his own records, whereas the man who didn't serve on his swiftboat would keep them public, right?) is better fit to run this country than a young man who VOLUNTEERED (yes, you heard me right) to go to Vietnam to fight for his country and won three purple hearts. Now, honestly, i don't care if john kerry got shot three times in the pinkie toe, because you know what? he volunteered to go to war for his country, and i'll be damned if thats not the most patriotic thing you can do for your nation. Sorry Georgie, they don't give purple hearts for hangovers and parties, so I guess you don't get many medals out there in dangerous alabama. And then on top of that, what did Kerry do? He tried to stop the bloodshed. He went home at a time when it was not a celebrated thing to be a soldier, and he told the truth. He talked about the people he'd killed and the atrocities he'd seen, and why did he do it? He sure as fuck didn't do it to smite america. He did it TO GET HIS FELLOW AMERICANS OUT OF WAR. He easily could have said "to hell with them", but he didn't want to see them die, not after VOLUNTEERING FOR TWO TOURS IN VIETNAM. And so john kerry fought for peace, and he fought for the lives of his fellow americans. And if somehow doing the right thing and wanting peace is some sort of crime, and partying in alabama and dodging the draft (ie: avoiding serving your country) is what we want in a leader, explain to me how you got to this conclusion. As for me, I voted Kerry, and thats all there is to it. I will never vote republican, I will never vote for war or religion or censorship.

Tell me how voting for bush is right. Thats all i ask.

[road to joy]

oh yeah, and i lived in europe for two years before i moved back to america, my father worked with the UN on the war crimes tribunal in sarajevo...anti-american sentiment is so bad over there (and this is in the netherlands, a thoroughly westernized nation) that i could scarecly go out after the war started for fear of being attacked on the streets, as many of my schoolmates were. They hate us, and if you don't realize that, then you obviously haven't left the country. Nobody likes bullys, and nobody likes murderers.

[maledixtion]

A minor detail???? When people can't get married? When girls can't have an abortion????


Oh okay, yes it sure is a minor details. PLEASE.
Neither canidate supports gay marriage, neither canidate is against abortion. Uninformed people shouldn't be allowed to vote. You should have to take a test at the polls to see if you are even eligible to make a decision.

[Lueda Alia]

Neither canidate supports gay marriage, neither canidate is against abortion. Uninformed people shouldn't be allowed to vote. You should have to take a test at the polls to see if you are even eligible to make a decision.

Bush is against abortion. And Bush does want to ban gay marriage. While Kerry said he'd leave it up to the states.


and btw, see how much you'll be liked around the world if Bush wins:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=2&u=/ap/20041102/ap_on_re_eu/eln_world_on_edge

[Lueda Alia]

hmm...i hear a lot of misinformation here. first of all, whoever said bush sr. won the gulf war...if he did indeed win the war, why did Saddam Hussein remain in power? like father, like son...both fucked up with their attempts at Iraq, only this time around, the Iraqi people have decided that they don't like being occupied so much.

Also, to whoever said that Kerry turned the flag upside down, this is true, but i assume that you don't know what it means, do you? Turning the flag upside down is an international symbol of distress; back in the days of overseas exploration, ships would turn their flags upside down on the mast if they were in trouble and needed help. Kerry did not burn a flag, he turned it upside down, meaning that he thought the country was in trouble, and it was (after all, we lost that war, remember?).

I don't understand either how anyone can call Kerry's change in opinion a bad thing. Okay, he did support the war. But what did he base his support on? Lies that were passed off as facts by our government (and if anyone wishes to refute this, or for that matter tell me the location of the WMDs that both the UN and our personal American weapons inspectors said DO NOT EXIST, please call me and then the white house, in that order). Are we to fault Kerry for making a decision based on what he believed to be fact? How would he have known that his own government would lie to him (once again, if anyone can find the connection between al queda and Saddam, two men who publicly HATED each other, call me immediately)?

And then, on top of everything, Kerry did something no politician ever does: he realized he made a mistake. So did he try to keep it quiet and lie about what was happening, did he attempt to keep charging forward even though he knew it was wrong? No. He changed his position and tried to correct his mistake. I call that doing the right thing, so please tell me how this so called "flip-flopping" is a bad thing, if all Kerry is doing is trying to correct a mistake that he made.

Also, I would like to hear how anyone thinks that a man who drank his way through the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War (oh wait, I can't prove that to you, because GEORGE W. BUSH HAS CLASSIFIED HIS OWN SERVICE RECORDS. interesting how the guy who dutifully served his country would classify his own records, whereas the man who didn't serve on his swiftboat would keep them public, right?) is better fit to run this country than a young man who VOLUNTEERED (yes, you heard me right) to go to Vietnam to fight for his country and won three purple hearts. Now, honestly, i don't care if john kerry got shot three times in the pinkie toe, because you know what? he volunteered to go to war for his country, and i'll be damned if thats not the most patriotic thing you can do for your nation. Sorry Georgie, they don't give purple hearts for hangovers and parties, so I guess you don't get many medals out there in dangerous alabama. And then on top of that, what did Kerry do? He tried to stop the bloodshed. He went home at a time when it was not a celebrated thing to be a soldier, and he told the truth. He talked about the people he'd killed and the atrocities he'd seen, and why did he do it? He sure as fuck didn't do it to smite america. He did it TO GET HIS FELLOW AMERICANS OUT OF WAR. He easily could have said "to hell with them", but he didn't want to see them die, not after VOLUNTEERING FOR TWO TOURS IN VIETNAM. And so john kerry fought for peace, and he fought for the lives of his fellow americans. And if somehow doing the right thing and wanting peace is some sort of crime, and partying in alabama and dodging the draft (ie: avoiding serving your country) is what we want in a leader, explain to me how you got to this conclusion. As for me, I voted Kerry, and thats all there is to it. I will never vote republican, I will never vote for war or religion or censorship.

Tell me how voting for bush is right. Thats all i ask.


AMEN.

<3

[SurfWaxKyle]

If it bothers you that Max says that, good for you. He has an opinion. So do the rest of us. So basically you're spitting your opinion back by saying that you think he shouldn't have said that. I could tell you to not say it because its not with what I agree with either. If you don't agree with what he says, bite your tounge and go vote for whoever you please. If you want Bush to ruin America, feel free to exercise that right to vote for him. Think for yourself, not for what other people tell you to do.

[rupture&rapture]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

that is one of the most stupid things ive ever heard. condratulations ignorant dumbass.

[The Bled 13]

I think (I don't know) that the reason that celebrities, bands, etc. endorse politicians isn't to dictate how their fans should vote, but it would inspire them to be more interested in the electoral system as a whole. Sure, Max just spouted off what some may call a "command", but look at what it triggered: political discussion. So in the end, isn't it the people accusing narrowmindedness the ones who are narrowminded themselves?

Awesome point. This kid has an open-mind...

[The Bled 13]

vote for kerry if you like homo***gots running around and getting married. i think a box of cat litter could do a better job running the country than kerry. since kerry has many of the same views as hitler did.....

Haha Gee Golly, wish I wer ah Conservative!

[steve-0]

I don't understand either how anyone can call Kerry's change in opinion a bad thing. Okay, he did support the war. But what did he base his support on? Lies that were passed off as facts by our government (and if anyone wishes to refute this, or for that matter tell me the location of the WMDs that both the UN and our personal American weapons inspectors said DO NOT EXIST, please call me and then the white house, in that order). Are we to fault Kerry for making a decision based on what he believed to be fact?
.

I dont have time to respond to everything you said because I have to leave soon, but Ill respond to this. Obviously, youre saying its excusable for Kerry to have supported the war initially because the information he was getting was telling him that there were WMD's in Iraq, correct?

Well, put yourself in Bush's shoes for a second. You're president and you have the CIA and British intelligence, probabaly the 2 best intelligence agencies in the world telling you that there are WMD's in Iraq. One quote that I have seen from a top CIA official called it a "slam dunk" that there were WMD's in IRaq. Are you willing to excuse Bush's "mistake" then? Look at the information he had. He had the CIA telling him that there were WMD's in Iraq. Also, look at logic. Why would Bush invade Iraq if he knew there were no WMD's there? honestly, that's policital suicide and if he's as self-absorbed as you would have us believe, he would wouldn't knowingly do something that damaging to his own political agenda.


and yes, I realize I dont have any links or evidence to back this up, but like I said earlier, I'm about to run out the door and dont really have time to look for any kind of info.

[thexflamesxburn]

thats fucking stupid

[i_amclandestine]

"Vote Kerry/Edwards in 2004!!!"

aka..."I don't know shit about politics, but all my favorite celebrities do!!!"

exactly. im so tired of the kerry suporters. because its trendy to vote kerry. get informed fucking morons.

[road to joy]

uh...sorry buddy, i am informed, and honestly i don't give a shit who supports kerry and who doesn't...my choice is my choice. would you like to tell me why it is that just because some stupid celebrities support kerry, it means that i have no opinion? because honestly, i could say just the same thing about the right-wing nazis who flock to their churches every sunday to hear the word of god handed to them in every homophobic sermon. so if you want to talk extremes, i just matched your ignorance and stupidity, i believe.

except...i don't actually believe that, because guess what? i don't believe in generalizations. you saying that i support kerry because some idiot celebrities do is just as ignorant as any one of a million claims i could make about why you like bush, the one above just being a stupid example, so don't freak out just yet.

As for the guy who thought it was brilliant to say that Bush should be forgiven because of the intelligence that i cited...i don't agree and here's why. Lets take a look at the big scheme of things. John F. Kerry was a Massachussetts senator. George W. Bush was/is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Which one do you think should be more informed about the intelligence regarding Iraq? Better yet, who is more capable of checking the intelligence regarding Iraq? John Kerry had no way of possibly making sure that these facts, or rather lies, that he was told were true. How could he? Its not like he had access to UN weapons inspectors or the CIA. On the other hand, George W. Bush did. And guess what? He went charging blindly forward into war, even when he had been told by UN weapons inspectors that nothing had been found, and even after Iraq had repeatedly told the US that they had no weapons to hide. And guess what happened? They were telling the truth. No WMDs exist. No one can refute that, because OUR OWN WEAPONS INSPECTORS SAID THE SAME THING!

I do think that John Kerry was right to try and fix his mistake. But i think that 1) George W. Bush should have waited for weapons inspectors to make a full report, considering there was no rush (Saddam Hussein was no more of a threat at the time of our invasion then he had been for a dozen years since the Gulf War, even our own weapons inspection reports will support that) and he has access to, as you would probably agree, the best intelligence in the world. When you start a fucking WAR, you better be goddamn sure that the thing you're fighting over actually exists, because otherwise who knows? people might start questioning that Chevron oil tanker with Condoleezza Rice's name on it or Cheney's shady ties with Halliburton...but thats just a rumor, right? and 2) When it turned out that WMDs did not exist, what did Bush do? He lied to all of our faces. He didn't try to make up for it like Kerry did; no, Bush was too damn proud, and so he just kept going with the same old shit, even though it had long since been proved a bunch of lies.

I don't see how Bush and Kerry were at all alike in this aspect. If you are trying to tell me that a senator and the president have the same access to information, or the same responsibility to make sure that information is fucking accurate, then you have made some gross miscalculation, cause that just isn't the way it works. I know everyone's cast their vote by now, but tell me how voting for bush is right.

[pnkdrmr182]

congratulations to road to joy for actually posting something intelligent on this thread. (P.S - does anyone else find it hilarious that about 80-90% of the bush-cheney stickers in public view are on SUV's?? hahaha)

[homeslice]

I guess unless you have traditional values it's very hard to convince you to vote for Bush. I feel like so many kids of my generation don't want to grow up and accept responsibilities. They want sex, but not the consequences. They want peace, but not justice. The list goes on... First of all, give me a reason to vote for Kerry besides conspiracy theories. Liberals who love the environment, voting for for Kerry won't make a difference, because he won't change anything. His health plan is downright terrifying. Gov't controlled healthcare doesn't work, just ask Canada. Do you know that Kerry considers people that make between $15,000 and $30,000 as the middle class. I, for one, consider about $35,000 to about $85,000 to be middle class. So, all you suburban white kids, Kerry won't help you. On the other hand, the Democratic party is about small gov't and demand things that can only be done through complete gov't control. We, as a nation need to take responsibility for our actions. We need to be more fiscally responsible and we need to care less about ourselves. The more we care about ourselves, the greedier we get. I think we wager entirely too much on domestic issues. I think the issues overseas are much greater. We need to protect Israel and we need to consider the fact that maybe those countries against us overseas are wrong. Isn't it also possible that countries like Germany and France have a vested interest in Iraq? Isn't it also possible that WMDs are in other countries? Maybe the media should've used the term WMMs (Weapons of Mass Murder), because I think people don't think dead people when they hear "WMD". I'll will admit that both of them used inaccurate terms during the debates. Just check the internet (both sides). And don't trust any TV news channels including Foxsnews. Finally, Laura Bush makes a fine first lady and Theresa Heinz-Kerry is nuts. If you this is not enough, challenge me, I will answer all questions.

[xJbx]

im personally voting for bush cause i think kerry is just gonna fuck up whats goin on in iraq even more. at least with bush, i think he'll eventually fix it. kerry will make it worse for 4 years and then hand the job off to another republican who will be blamed more than kerry was...its just a vicious cycle. im also voting for bush to prove to the liberal media and hollywood that they are NOT the majority

Nope. Unfortunately the majority is made up of people who'll put "conviction" over common sense and believe empty rhetoric when it appeals to their own form of morality, not necessarily everybody's. This majority is largely uninformed, and unaware of the damage supply-side economics does to their own towns. Oh, but they'll back Bush because he's "tough on terror". And we all know how big an issue terrorism is in places like Mobile, Alabama or Raleigh, North Carolina or maybe even Des Moines, Iowa or perhaps Billings, Montana. Gee there must be alot of terror attacks going on out in the middle of nowhere, because the ruralites sure let their fear effect their vote. Like NoFX says, the political scientist gets one vote and the monkey gets one vote. Don't take pride in being part of the majority. You really can do better than that.

[FinchBulldog2]

A little message from Max of Say Anything (http://www.sayanythingmusic.com):

"VOTE FOR FUCKING KERRY OR WE'RE DOOMED"

Submitted By TJ Wells


Now I hate this guy even more than I did before. Fuck him. Fuck Bright Eyes, too.

[SomePerson22]

Now I hate this guy even more than I did before. Fuck him. Fuck Bright Eyes, too.
do you ever make any even semi-intelligent posts? he posted this on his own site. he wasn't obnoxious about it like fat mike was, and i never heard max bring up the election when i saw them live like so many other musicians have.

just go listen to hoobastank and shut up. you obviously don't know talented artists.

[grnweenieag]

according to the recent draft brought up by democrats, it would allow 1st and 2nd year college students to be drafted. it also made it illegal for any Male US citizen who could be drafted to dodge the draft by moving to any foreign country. also claiming you have asthema, bad knees, bad back, wont work. And if you claim you're gay, you're then to be seen by a psychiactrist (spelling?). yep thats the draft that was brought up by the democrats ...
I do consider myself a conservative Democrat (if there is such a thing) but check this http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_102904_Rumsfel d,00.html[/URL]

[ActorInThisPlay]

looks like in Max's opinion were fucking doomed...