A letter to the left

[KGRGTheDon]

To all the liberals who flung lies around, to the leftist "punks" who hate anything and anyone better off then them, to Mr. Michael Moore, to Fat Mike and the millions of prepubescent fools talking shit about the Republicans, to all who spent millions in the punk voter movement to elect Kerry, to all those calling us "facists", to the thousands of whiney protestors who gathered in New York to attempt and disrupt the NPR, to Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw, to those who hated us, to those who tried to hurt us, to all those pro-abortion, to all those who just follow their Democratic daddies, to all of those who listen to celebrities for political insight, to all those who think that Bush stole the election again, and ESPECIALLY those who called ME names and said I had no free thought and wished or threatened things to me:


YOU LOST, SUCKERS!!! :)

[_astheruinfalls]

How mature.

Pro-abortion is not what we are. Get the title right.

They can go both ways. So you aren't really saying anything.

[UndefinedBoy]

To all the liberals who flung lies around, to the leftist "punks" who hate anything and anyone better off then them, to Mr. Michael Moore, to Fat Mike and the millions of prepubescent fools talking shit about the Republicans, to all who spent millions in the punk voter movement to elect Kerry, to all those calling us "facists", to the thousands of whiney protestors who gathered in New York to attempt and disrupt the NPR, to Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw, to those who hated us, to those who tried to hurt us, to all those pro-abortion, to all those who just follow their Democratic daddies, to all of those who listen to celebrities for political insight, to all those who think that Bush stole the election again, and ESPECIALLY those who called ME names and said I had no free thought and wished or threatened things to me:


YOU LOST, SUCKERS!!! :)

I can't wait to say "I told you so" jackass.

[JoshCool7717]

I can't wait to say "I told you so" jackass.

Haha. But saying that once the country is in a shithole won't do us much good.

If anything, the country has divided. We are not united, we're at each other's throats.

So simply said, everyone needs to just say "Fuck the president. I'll vote for who I like. If I lose, oh well. We're still under one flag. We must work together to survive in this harsh world."

Instead everyone has decided to put each other down for their opinion. Some "country" we are.

[BrandNew20]

To all the liberals who flung lies around, to the leftist "punks" who hate anything and anyone better off then them, to Mr. Michael Moore, to Fat Mike and the millions of prepubescent fools talking shit about the Republicans, to all who spent millions in the punk voter movement to elect Kerry, to all those calling us "facists", to the thousands of whiney protestors who gathered in New York to attempt and disrupt the NPR, to Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw, to those who hated us, to those who tried to hurt us, to all those pro-abortion, to all those who just follow their Democratic daddies, to all of those who listen to celebrities for political insight, to all those who think that Bush stole the election again, and ESPECIALLY those who called ME names and said I had no free thought and wished or threatened things to me:


YOU LOST, SUCKERS!!! :)


To all the conservatives who have accepted Bush's victory in a respectful manner, thank you and you are the reason why I don't see conservatives, as a whole, as bad people.(I tend to just see the Republican leadership as very corrupt.)

To people who have treated Bush's victory as a sporting event, such as this guy above, fuck off. How dare you speak out against protestors. Do I get pissed off when someone protests abortion and call them whiney and to get over it? no. I realize that its totally within their rights to do so. And liberals fling lies around? I'm sorry buddy but both sides do. No one is innocent of lying, and certainly congress is no exception. Swift boat Veterans for truth? yeah, hardly. and calling us Pro-abortion? yeah, nice try buddy. I hardly think everyone should have to have an abortion.

And I love how to be liberal these days you've automatically bought into the lies of Fat Mike, Michael Moore, and "Democratic Daddy's". I disliked Bush before I had even heard of Punkvoter and saw F911. My father, mother, and brother also all voted for Bush. I formed my own opinion by looking at the world around me based upon my own personal beliefs.

[4moreyearsbaby]

To all the conservatives who have accepted Bush's victory in a respectful manner, thank you and you are the reason why I don't see conservatives, as a whole, as bad people.(I tend to just see the Republican leadership as very corrupt.)

To people who have treated Bush's victory as a sporting event, such as this guy above, fuck off. How dare you speak out against protestors. Do I get pissed off when someone protests abortion and call them whiney and to get over it? no. I realize that its totally within their rights to do so. And liberals fling lies around? I'm sorry buddy but both sides do. No one is innocent of lying, and certainly congress is no exception. Swift boat Veterans for truth? yeah, hardly. and calling us Pro-abortion? yeah, nice try buddy. I hardly think everyone should have to have an abortion.

And I love how to be liberal these days you've automatically bought into the lies of Fat Mike, Michael Moore, and "Democratic Daddy's". I disliked Bush before I had even heard of Punkvoter and saw F911. My father, mother, and brother also all voted for Bush. I formed my own opinion by looking at the world around me based upon my own personal beliefs.

After all the shit I took from you and other Kerry supporters for backing Bush, I'm going to bask in his victory for a little while longer..

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/election.main/top.1821.bush.ap.jpg

[Jason Tate]

After all the shit I took from you and other Kerry supporters for backing Bush, I'm going to bask in his victory for a little while longer..

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/election.main/top.1821.bush.ap.jpg
Absurd. Seriously, you would consider something like this to be a manner in which to "bask in victory." There were those who said, "leave the country" when they wanted to keep slaves; we stayed, in time, things changed. I don't feel bad in "defeat" I only am sad that progression will take longer ...

What did you achieve, what victory do you have? Let me know. There is no Bin Laden, the world as a whole dislikes us more then ever, and we are being treated as a collective christian society at home. This is not a victory in any shape or form... you should be ashamed that you consider this to be a football game with a winner and loser.

"Anytime you lose like this, there’s a certain amount of Wednesday-morning quarterbacking and woulda-coulda-shoulda. I have no regrets myself, but as I look back at Kerry’s campaign, there are a couple of points where, if he had it all to do over again, I think he should have done it differently.

For example, in the first debate, Kerry announced that he would put our national security decisions in the hands of France. He said very explicitly that we would have to pass a global test before using force. I think a lot of us watching at the time thought that that was a mistake.

Also, of course, the flip-flops, especially those about Iraq. Voting, as you know, for the war, then against it, for it, then against it-having, as Sean Hannity said, literally 80 different positions. I wish he could have chosen one position and stuck with it.

Kerry’s decision to ban the Bible. That was a huge mistake, especially in very Christian areas. That might have gone over fine in atheist communities, but it cost him big everywhere else.

And then proposing a health care system that would impose an enormous federal bureaucracy and give medical decisions to paper-pushers in Washington, and in France.

And going back to Vietnam, the way he lied about what happened, inflicted those wounds on himself to get those medals, and then threw them out-I think that was a mistake. Of course, that was a mistake that he made back then, decades ago. But he could have been more honest about it now.

A lot of people talk about Bush’s record, and what he might do in the next term, but what this really comes down to is character. And ceding your doctor’s authority to France, and the flip-flops, and shooting himself in the leg to win a medal-I guess those things just overcame the awful, failed presidency of George W. Bush.

***

You know I wouldn’t mind losing an election if it were an honest disagreement, based on facts, over values and policy. But that’s not what happened. A large majority of Bush supporters went to the polls believing things that were false. For example, any of the above. They believed lies about Kerry, and they believed lies about Iraq, and they believed lies about Bush.

We’re not going to heal this country as long as we have a president who won’t be accountable, who won’t tell the truth, who is willing to campaign with a vicious dishonesty that is unprecedented.

After Barry Goldwater was crushed by Lyndon Johnson in 1964, the right decided to take a long view. They poured literally billions of dollars into creating the right-wing infrastructure that dominates our politics today. They built up the American Enterprise Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Media Research Center, and now Fox News Channel-and many other organizations, above and below the radar. Though they won the White House in 1968, it took them thirty years to reach their ascendancy in 1964.

Our side just started. Air America went on the air seven months ago. Normally, incumbent presidents either win by a landslide or lose by a landslide, and a year or two ago, people thought it would be an overwhelming Bush victory. It wasn’t. For an incumbent wartime president, this was a close race. And we’ve created a movement to take this country back. Even though we didn’t do it this time, I believe that we will still do it.

The other side wants us to get demoralized, but we are going to fight. We are going to fight every step of the way.

Round two starts now. " - Al Franken

[4moreyearsbaby]

Absurd. Seriously, you would consider something like this to be a manner in which to "bask in victory." There were those who said, "leave the country" when they wanted to keep slaves; we stayed, in time, things changed. I don't feel bad in "defeat" I only am sad that progression will take longer ...

What did you achieve, what victory do you have? Let me know. There is no Bin Laden, the world as a whole dislikes us more then ever, and we are being treated as a collective christian society at home. This is not a victory in any shape or form... you should be ashamed that you consider this to be a football game with a winner and loser.

"Anytime you lose like this, there’s a certain amount of Wednesday-morning quarterbacking and woulda-coulda-shoulda. I have no regrets myself, but as I look back at Kerry’s campaign, there are a couple of points where, if he had it all to do over again, I think he should have done it differently.

For example, in the first debate, Kerry announced that he would put our national security decisions in the hands of France. He said very explicitly that we would have to pass a global test before using force. I think a lot of us watching at the time thought that that was a mistake.

Also, of course, the flip-flops, especially those about Iraq. Voting, as you know, for the war, then against it, for it, then against it-having, as Sean Hannity said, literally 80 different positions. I wish he could have chosen one position and stuck with it.

Kerry’s decision to ban the Bible. That was a huge mistake, especially in very Christian areas. That might have gone over fine in atheist communities, but it cost him big everywhere else.

And then proposing a health care system that would impose an enormous federal bureaucracy and give medical decisions to paper-pushers in Washington, and in France.

And going back to Vietnam, the way he lied about what happened, inflicted those wounds on himself to get those medals, and then threw them out-I think that was a mistake. Of course, that was a mistake that he made back then, decades ago. But he could have been more honest about it now.

A lot of people talk about Bush’s record, and what he might do in the next term, but what this really comes down to is character. And ceding your doctor’s authority to France, and the flip-flops, and shooting himself in the leg to win a medal-I guess those things just overcame the awful, failed presidency of George W. Bush.

***

You know I wouldn’t mind losing an election if it were an honest disagreement, based on facts, over values and policy. But that’s not what happened. A large majority of Bush supporters went to the polls believing things that were false. For example, any of the above. They believed lies about Kerry, and they believed lies about Iraq, and they believed lies about Bush.

We’re not going to heal this country as long as we have a president who won’t be accountable, who won’t tell the truth, who is willing to campaign with a vicious dishonesty that is unprecedented.

After Barry Goldwater was crushed by Lyndon Johnson in 1964, the right decided to take a long view. They poured literally billions of dollars into creating the right-wing infrastructure that dominates our politics today. They built up the American Enterprise Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Media Research Center, and now Fox News Channel-and many other organizations, above and below the radar. Though they won the White House in 1968, it took them thirty years to reach their ascendancy in 1964.

Our side just started. Air America went on the air seven months ago. Normally, incumbent presidents either win by a landslide or lose by a landslide, and a year or two ago, people thought it would be an overwhelming Bush victory. It wasn’t. For an incumbent wartime president, this was a close race. And we’ve created a movement to take this country back. Even though we didn’t do it this time, I believe that we will still do it.

The other side wants us to get demoralized, but we are going to fight. We are going to fight every step of the way.

Round two starts now. " - Al Franken


Once again you're telling me what I should feel. Where do you get off telling me what I should feel? Do you hear me saying you should feel good that Bush is back in office?

Stop fucking telling me what to feel and stop preaching to me. Your guy did in fact lose, and it is like a sporting event. It's like the super bowl. It was between 2 candidates, two parties, two "teams", and the better team came out on top.

[Jason Tate]

Once again you're telling me what I should feel. Where do you get off telling me what I should feel? Do you hear me saying you should feel good that Bush is back in office?

Stop fucking telling me what to feel and stop preaching to me. Your guy did in fact lose, and it is like a sporting event. It's like the super bowl. It was between 2 candidates, two parties, two "teams", and the better team came out on top.
Wow. More and more I am being able to realize why we have what we have in this country ... at the very least, you're showing me that.

[4moreyearsbaby]

And you're the one to judge.

It's punk kids like you that make me second guess joining the Air Force.

[yeat182]

i thought liberals were all about acceptance, what is with all the hatred? its getting ridiculous.

[ItsStillARecipe]

Absurd. Seriously, you would consider something like this to be a manner in which to "bask in victory." There were those who said, "leave the country" when they wanted to keep slaves; we stayed, in time, things changed. I don't feel bad in "defeat" I only am sad that progression will take longer ...

What did you achieve, what victory do you have? Let me know. There is no Bin Laden, the world as a whole dislikes us more then ever, and we are being treated as a collective christian society at home. This is not a victory in any shape or form... you should be ashamed that you consider this to be a football game with a winner and loser.

"Anytime you lose like this, there’s a certain amount of Wednesday-morning quarterbacking and woulda-coulda-shoulda. I have no regrets myself, but as I look back at Kerry’s campaign, there are a couple of points where, if he had it all to do over again, I think he should have done it differently.

For example, in the first debate, Kerry announced that he would put our national security decisions in the hands of France. He said very explicitly that we would have to pass a global test before using force. I think a lot of us watching at the time thought that that was a mistake.

Also, of course, the flip-flops, especially those about Iraq. Voting, as you know, for the war, then against it, for it, then against it-having, as Sean Hannity said, literally 80 different positions. I wish he could have chosen one position and stuck with it.

Kerry’s decision to ban the Bible. That was a huge mistake, especially in very Christian areas. That might have gone over fine in atheist communities, but it cost him big everywhere else.

And then proposing a health care system that would impose an enormous federal bureaucracy and give medical decisions to paper-pushers in Washington, and in France.

And going back to Vietnam, the way he lied about what happened, inflicted those wounds on himself to get those medals, and then threw them out-I think that was a mistake. Of course, that was a mistake that he made back then, decades ago. But he could have been more honest about it now.

A lot of people talk about Bush’s record, and what he might do in the next term, but what this really comes down to is character. And ceding your doctor’s authority to France, and the flip-flops, and shooting himself in the leg to win a medal-I guess those things just overcame the awful, failed presidency of George W. Bush.

***

You know I wouldn’t mind losing an election if it were an honest disagreement, based on facts, over values and policy. But that’s not what happened. A large majority of Bush supporters went to the polls believing things that were false. For example, any of the above. They believed lies about Kerry, and they believed lies about Iraq, and they believed lies about Bush.

We’re not going to heal this country as long as we have a president who won’t be accountable, who won’t tell the truth, who is willing to campaign with a vicious dishonesty that is unprecedented.

After Barry Goldwater was crushed by Lyndon Johnson in 1964, the right decided to take a long view. They poured literally billions of dollars into creating the right-wing infrastructure that dominates our politics today. They built up the American Enterprise Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Media Research Center, and now Fox News Channel-and many other organizations, above and below the radar. Though they won the White House in 1968, it took them thirty years to reach their ascendancy in 1964.

Our side just started. Air America went on the air seven months ago. Normally, incumbent presidents either win by a landslide or lose by a landslide, and a year or two ago, people thought it would be an overwhelming Bush victory. It wasn’t. For an incumbent wartime president, this was a close race. And we’ve created a movement to take this country back. Even though we didn’t do it this time, I believe that we will still do it.

The other side wants us to get demoralized, but we are going to fight. We are going to fight every step of the way.

Round two starts now. " - Al Franken

sounds like someone hit one of tate's buttons...look out, incoming 10 page long essay about how youre wrong and he's right! everybody duck!!!

[Jason Tate]

sounds like someone hit one of tate's buttons...look out, incoming 10 page long essay about how youre wrong and he's right! everybody duck!!!
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

[yeat182]

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

"i voted it for it before i voted against it" - John Kerry

see, everyone can play that game, can we at least not try and raise the level of discourse on this board, rather than stoop to the lowest common denominator?

[ItsStillARecipe]

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

sorry tate, you already posted that elsewhere. thats not too creative. you can do better. take another shot, im sure you can do better.

[Jason Tate]

"i voted it for it before i voted against it" - John Kerry

see, everyone can play that game, can we at least not try and raise the level of discourse on this board, rather than stoop to the lowest common denominator?
Hmm, voting for war, and finding the biggest mass murderer in this country's history.

YAH! There's a correlation!! Except my was in direct relation to the original post and you came out of left field with an out of context misnomer.

[Jason Tate]

sorry tate, you already posted that elsewhere. thats not too creative. you can do better. take another shot, im sure you can do better.
Actually, no, it sums things up the best... I'll continue so you can get it in your head ....

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

[ItsStillARecipe]

Hmm, voting for war, and finding the biggest mass murderer in this country's history.

YAH! There's a correlation!! Except my was in direct relation to the original post and you came out of left field with an out of context misnomer.

thank god you just used some big words this time instead of writing your whole life story in a fucking post.

[yeat182]

Hmm, voting for war, and finding the biggest mass murderer in this country's history.

YAH! There's a correlation!! Except my was in direct relation to the original post and you came out of left field with an out of context misnomer.

wrong thread, no one was talking about bin laden in the this one.

[Jason Tate]

thank god you just used some big words this time instead of writing your whole life story in a fucking post.
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

[yeat182]

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

this is what i mean by saying "you can act like an adult".

[ItsStillARecipe]

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

third time's not a charm here, asshole. maybe you should post it one more time for good measure.

[theESCO]

"And we’ve created a movement to take this country back. Even though we didn’t do it this time, I believe that we will still do it.

The other side wants us to get demoralized, but we are going to fight. We are going to fight every step of the way.

Round two starts now. " - Al Franken


AMEN!

[KGRGTheDon]

HAHAHA. You liberal idiots.

Yeats, 4moreyears, good job. You are smart people.

As for the rest of you, listen up, because even though I know I am wasting my breath, I'll try breaking this down for you.

Abortion is murder, I was almost aborted, so don't start. You're not "pro-choice". You are "pro-death". You can say "A womans right to choose", but what about the damn kids?

You talked so much mad shit about us, you whiney bastards, we deserve to rub it in. RIGHT TO PROTEST??? You weren't protesting. You were trying to disrupt the convention, you assholes. The fuckin NOISE BRIGADE and Moore? I didn't see Republicans do any of that.

If you did not talk shit or anything, don't take this letter to heart. I am speaking to those who were blatantly violent rude sheep.

Yeat, good point, but that went bunk years ago. All they care about anymore is winning. Fat Mike made it clear he was gonna fuck the country. Kerry (whom I respect for this), pointed out that we must come together. Fat Mikes response? "FUCK THAT!!!" (www.punkvoter.com).

All in all, you Democratic a-holes handled the entire CAMPAIGN very immaturely. Why did Bush win so quietly? Because we all knew what we had to do. We didn't make multi-million dollar movies. We campaigned, we quietly voted, we didn't start a ruckus, we just did our civic duty and voted and returned to our families, not smash shit, burn cars, and get wasted. So now guess what? The shit hit the fan, bitches. FOUR MORE MOTHERFUCKIN YEARS!!! WOOHOO!!!

PS Tate. You're like a broken record. STFU.

[theESCO]

I really find myself at a loss of words for you...Why exactly are we 'liberal idiots,' why aren't we just people who think on the liberal side of things.

And I hardly think F9/11 was a multi-million dollar film...And I think all the bruning cars and getting wasted was for a baseball game, not an election. But hey, I didn't even know I was a liberal idiot.

And your right, the shit did hit the fan...and it was George Bush throw the shit.

[kchubb]

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, 3/13/02.

Our continuing pressure on Bin Laden has reduced him to making infomercials in a cave... so i agree... i want that fucker as much as the rest and we continue to hunt him down but we do have bigger fish to fry...

[theESCO]

but we do have bigger fish to fry...

Who are these fish? I believe he was the fish who masterminded the killing 3,000 Americans. Seems like he's the fish we should be concentrating on.

[kchubb]

And he has been minimized to an old man hiding in a cave like the coward he is. We have captured over 50% of al quaedas leadership...

How about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? Rumor is we're close to getting him...

[Jason Tate]

HAHAHA. You liberal idiots.

Yeats, 4moreyears, good job. You are smart people.

As for the rest of you, listen up, because even though I know I am wasting my breath, I'll try breaking this down for you.

Abortion is murder, I was almost aborted, so don't start. You're not "pro-choice". You are "pro-death". You can say "A womans right to choose", but what about the damn kids?

You talked so much mad shit about us, you whiney bastards, we deserve to rub it in. RIGHT TO PROTEST??? You weren't protesting. You were trying to disrupt the convention, you assholes. The fuckin NOISE BRIGADE and Moore? I didn't see Republicans do any of that.

If you did not talk shit or anything, don't take this letter to heart. I am speaking to those who were blatantly violent rude sheep.

Yeat, good point, but that went bunk years ago. All they care about anymore is winning. Fat Mike made it clear he was gonna fuck the country. Kerry (whom I respect for this), pointed out that we must come together. Fat Mikes response? "FUCK THAT!!!" (www.punkvoter.com).

All in all, you Democratic a-holes handled the entire CAMPAIGN very immaturely. Why did Bush win so quietly? Because we all knew what we had to do. We didn't make multi-million dollar movies. We campaigned, we quietly voted, we didn't start a ruckus, we just did our civic duty and voted and returned to our families, not smash shit, burn cars, and get wasted. So now guess what? The shit hit the fan, bitches. FOUR MORE MOTHERFUCKIN YEARS!!! WOOHOO!!!

PS Tate. You're like a broken record. STFU.
Heh, 1) Abortion shouldn't even be a presidential election issue. 2) It's what's known as seperation of church and state. 3) Why do I even bother? You're religion must know what's best for the entire world.

[kchubb]

2) It's what's known as seperation of church and state.

Can you please point out to me where in a constitution it says "seperation of chuch and state."

[Jason Tate]

And he has been minimized to an old man hiding in a cave like the coward he is. We have captured over 50% of al quaedas leadership...

How about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? Rumor is we're close to getting him...
He's always been in a cave.. this isn't new. And factcheck.org want's you to look up your 50% number.

[Jason Tate]

Can you please point out to me where in a constitution it says "seperation of chuch and state."
Wanna show me where it says, "gays can't marry." Either way, here:


Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them, asking why he would not proclaim national days of fasting and thanksiving, as had been done by Washington and Adams before him. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the Establishment Clause (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1) that we use today: "Separation of church and state."

This is a transcript of the letter as stored online at the Library of Congress, and reflects Jefferson's spelling and punctuation.

http://www.loc.gov/

Check it out if you want ... here's the copy:

Mr. President

To mess? Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

[kchubb]

can't find it on there.. it says one about 75% but its a little off topic... maybe you could help me out with this one...

[Jason Tate]

HAHAHA. You liberal idiots.

Yeats, 4moreyears, good job. You are smart people.

As for the rest of you, listen up, because even though I know I am wasting my breath, I'll try breaking this down for you.

Abortion is murder, I was almost aborted, so don't start. You're not "pro-choice". You are "pro-death". You can say "A womans right to choose", but what about the damn kids?

You talked so much mad shit about us, you whiney bastards, we deserve to rub it in. RIGHT TO PROTEST??? You weren't protesting. You were trying to disrupt the convention, you assholes. The fuckin NOISE BRIGADE and Moore? I didn't see Republicans do any of that.

If you did not talk shit or anything, don't take this letter to heart. I am speaking to those who were blatantly violent rude sheep.

Yeat, good point, but that went bunk years ago. All they care about anymore is winning. Fat Mike made it clear he was gonna fuck the country. Kerry (whom I respect for this), pointed out that we must come together. Fat Mikes response? "FUCK THAT!!!" (www.punkvoter.com).

All in all, you Democratic a-holes handled the entire CAMPAIGN very immaturely. Why did Bush win so quietly? Because we all knew what we had to do. We didn't make multi-million dollar movies. We campaigned, we quietly voted, we didn't start a ruckus, we just did our civic duty and voted and returned to our families, not smash shit, burn cars, and get wasted. So now guess what? The shit hit the fan, bitches. FOUR MORE MOTHERFUCKIN YEARS!!! WOOHOO!!!

PS Tate. You're like a broken record. STFU.
Heh, it's funny when a war, and homophobia is "quiet." Heh.

[kchubb]

I never said anything about gay marraige...

Yes, i'm quite aware of how the phrase came about. What about the free exercise clause? Seperation of chuch and state is a legal interpritation...

[Jason Tate]

can't find it on there.. it says one about 75% but its a little off topic... maybe you could help me out with this one...
Al Qaeda

The President said twice that "75 percent" of al Qaeda leaders have been "brought to justice." But as The Associated Press reported Oct. 1, Bush was referring to the deaths or arrests of 75 percent of bin Laden's network at the time of the September 11 attacks -- not those who are running the terrorist organization today. The AP also reported that the CIA said earlier in the year two-thirds of those leaders are gone; at his acceptance speech in September, Bush increased his count to three-fourths based on unreleased intelligence data.

Furthermore, the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies reported May 25 that the occupation of Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit more members. The institute quoted "conservative" intelligence estimates as saying that al Qaeda has 18,000 potential operatives and is present in more than 60 countries.

[Jason Tate]

I never said anything about gay marraige...

Yes, i'm quite aware of how the phrase came about. What about the free exercise clause? Seperation of chuch and state is a legal interpritation...
Do I need to explain what the Supreme Court now does? It was (as is implied by Mr. Jefferson) the intent of the forefathers to keep ONE religion from dominating policy... Religon causes more problems in a society, then any other single force: in the history of the world.

[kchubb]

The President said twice that "75 percent" of al Qaeda leaders have been "brought to justice." But as The Associated Press reported Oct. 1, Bush was referring to the deaths or arrests of 75 percent of bin Laden's network at the time of the September 11 attacks

Yea? They are going to recruit more people. No shit? Not my point. We've caught 75% of "the fish who masterminded the killing 3,000 Americans"... betters my arguement...

[Jason Tate]

Yea? They are going to recruit more people. No shit? Not my point. We've caught 75% of "the fish who masterminded the killing 3,000 Americans"... betters my arguement...
Please re-read the facts.

[kchubb]

It was (as is implied by Mr. Jefferson) the intent of the forefathers to keep ONE religion from dominating policy...

It was in effort to aviod establishing a national religion... which abortion does not do by the way... They had no intent in eliminating religion from our lives and how it effects our opinions...

[Bikeage]

you guys are idiots... i dont' care how many people we captured, all he's going to do is find new people to replace him. you think he's just going to say "oh shit, might as well give up?"

[kchubb]

i was addressing someone who said he would rather go after the people directly involved with 9/11... which we have...

[theESCO]

There are more police in NYC than troops looking for Osama Bin Laden...

[No Control]

Once again you're telling me what I should feel. Where do you get off telling me what I should feel? Do you hear me saying you should feel good that Bush is back in office?

Stop fucking telling me what to feel and stop preaching to me. Your guy did in fact lose, and it is like a sporting event. It's like the super bowl. It was between 2 candidates, two parties, two "teams", and the better team came out on top.


Preach all you want about how this event "is like the Super Bowl" the fact is that we have armed forces, stretched all over the globe, a good amount of Middle Eastern countries hate/distrust us. Bin Laden is still thinking of plans to attack us and we are off fighting a two front war for a cause we are still debating on...What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this???
Treat this like a sporting event, while you do, kids are over in Iraq dying as we debate on a stupid message board. And for what? Over a dictator, ok I'll give you, Saddam being an evil man, but what about all the others around the world? Those who are more of a threat than Saddam? Are we to invade them too? Do we wave the flag of freedom and we conquer and obey? (Yes I did just rip off Operation Ivy) You want to join the Air Force? Great, honestly thanks for your support in our Armed Forces, but personally, I don’t want to go over to the Middle East to fight for a cause which is yet to be determined. I am no coward and I love this country and would fight to preserve it if needed, but for THE RIGHT CAUSE.

[Jason Tate]

i was addressing someone who said he would rather go after the people directly involved with 9/11... which we have...
Saddam wasn't related to 9/11.

[kchubb]

the fact is that we have armed forces, stretched all over the globe, a good amount of Middle Eastern countries hate/distrust us.

This was true pre-bush...

Bin Laden is still thinking of plans to attack us and we are off fighting a two front war for a cause we are still debating on...

He can THINK all he wants. The fact is, he hasn't...

What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this???

Currently he is helping to establish two democracies in the middle east that will be quite valuable in or effort to fight terror...

[kchubb]

Saddam wasn't related to 9/11.

I'm not going into this again...

[Jason Tate]

I'm not going into this again...
Factcheck.org.

[Jason Tate]

This was true pre-bush...



He can THINK all he wants. The fact is, he hasn't...



Currently he is helping to establish two democracies in the middle east that will be quite valuable in or effort to fight terror...
UH, really? These are your arguments .. that's the best you've got?

[kchubb]

No need to bait... You're welcome to argue them...

[No Control]

It was in effort to aviod establishing a national religion... which abortion does not do by the way... They had no intent in eliminating religion from our lives and how it effects our opinions...


The truth is when this government was thought up and formed there had been religious persecution through out the 13 colonies. The Baptist Society in the Colonies were being oppressed by other religions, and even having to pay retributions to others. Even John Adams was criticized for he did nothing to protect these minority of the Baptist community (which in result may Baptist became loyalist) BUT at the end of the war it was implied that a separation of Church and State must be in order to established a unified country. Reason being, Religious conflicts through out the colonies were abundant and many debated whether to break from the English rule for this reason (as well as territorial boundaries). From this came the notion and the realization of the separation of church and state. Through out the years of our history the issue has been brought up and it has become a staple for our society. To rule a nation of a diverse society one must take into account all not the few that are of the same religion.

On a side note, the information I stated is in "The Origins of American Politics" by Bernard Bailyn if interested.

[Jason Tate]

No need to bait... You're welcome to argue them...
I don't need to argue them, it's just simply not true. Factcheck.org has all of that information, those that want to see can go check it out.

[Jason Tate]

The truth is when this government was thought up and formed there had been religious persecution through out the 13 colonies. The Baptist Society in the Colonies were being oppressed by other religions, and even having to pay retributions to others. Even John Adams was criticized for he did nothing to protect these minority of the Baptist community (which in result may Baptist became loyalist) BUT at the end of the war it was implied that a separation of Church and State must be in order to established a unified country. Reason being, Religious conflicts through out the colonies were abundant and many debated whether to break from the English rule for this reason (as well as territorial boundaries). From this came the notion and the realization of the separation of church and state. Through out the years of our history the issue has been brought up and it has become a staple for our society. To rule a nation of a diverse society one must take into account all not the few that are of the same religion.

On a side note, the information I stated is in "The Origins of American Politics" by Bernard Bailyn if interested.
Very good book.

[No Control]

This was true pre-bush...

And has been enhanced even more...Even the U.N. is starting to distrust our intentions.

He can THINK all he wants. The fact is, he hasn't...

Yeah and you know why? BECAUSE IT TAKES PLANNING! Look at the World Trade Center Attacks, it took what? Almost a decade until another attack? These attacks take planning, its not done on instint

Currently he is helping to establish two democracies in the middle east that will be quite valuable in or effort to fight terror...

Really? So basically your solution is to invade now and plan for reconstruction later while your troops sit tight being picked off every day with little movement to reconstruction and no U.N. backing??

[No Control]

Very good book.


Agreed, his detail in the book is quite interesting. It really does in a way, show you the process Pre-Revolution as well as what really is the cause of it.

[cal1082]

Preach all you want about how this event "is like the Super Bowl" the fact is that we have armed forces, stretched all over the globe, a good amount of Middle Eastern countries hate/distrust us. Bin Laden is still thinking of plans to attack us and we are off fighting a two front war for a cause we are still debating on...What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this???
Treat this like a sporting event, while you do, kids are over in Iraq dying as we debate on a stupid message board. And for what? Over a dictator, ok I'll give you, Saddam being an evil man, but what about all the others around the world? Those who are more of a threat than Saddam? Are we to invade them too? Do we wave the flag of freedom and we conquer and obey? (Yes I did just rip off Operation Ivy) You want to join the Air Force? Great, honestly thanks for your support in our Armed Forces, but personally, I don’t want to go over to the Middle East to fight for a cause which is yet to be determined. I am no coward and I love this country and would fight to preserve it if needed, but for THE RIGHT CAUSE.

It's funny that this was the case before Bush even got into the Whitehouse the only difference is we werent fighting back. I guess I should ask in that case how our pick before Bush resolved it? It's absurdly funny because you just literaly described out situation before Bush entered office, now at least we're fighting back.

Also please........don't spill out the argument "what about the bigger dangers, are we gonna invade them" because it's about as old has bush supporters telling the liberal left to move to Canada. You know yourself every threat is not dealt with using force, and if you don't perhaps you should study a history book.

[BrandNew20]

RIGHT TO PROTEST??? You weren't protesting. You were trying to disrupt the convention, you assholes.

you called them protesters in your original post, buddy.

[cal1082]

Preach all you want about how this event "is like the Super Bowl" the fact is that we have armed forces, stretched all over the globe, a good amount of Middle Eastern countries hate/distrust us. Bin Laden is still thinking of plans to attack us and we are off fighting a two front war for a cause we are still debating on...What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this???

I can't stress this point enough, and this is a prime example. You seriously have no idea what's going on. What you just described amazes me, and makes me think you have no grasp on foreign politics.

You just described a situation we've been in since the early 90's. The only difference is you only see it developing under President Bush. Did we not have armed forces all over the globe, middle east countries hating us, and bin laden wanting to attack us before Bush? COME ON!!!! It's absurd you want to see this as a recent development. What's even more shocking is that you point to these things and then say, "What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this??". Did it occur to you that it's the first time we're even fighting back? Earlier you said you want to fight for the right cause, well what you pointed out were some pretty conviencing causes.

[UndefinedBoy]

I can't stress this point enough, and this is a prime example. You seriously have no idea what's going on. What you just described amazes me, and makes me think you have no grasp on foreign politics.

You just described a situation we've been in since the early 90's. The only difference is you only see it developing under President Bush. Did we not have armed forces all over the globe, middle east countries hating us, and bin laden wanting to attack us before Bush? COME ON!!!! It's absurd you want to see this as a recent development. What's even more shocking is that you point to these things and then say, "What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this??". Did it occur to you that it's the first time we're even fighting back? Earlier you said you want to fight for the right cause, well what you pointed out were some pretty conviencing causes.

I think Bush is just making things worse for us...

[No Control]

I can't stress this point enough, and this is a prime example. You seriously have no idea what's going on. What you just described amazes me, and makes me think you have no grasp on foreign politics.

You just described a situation we've been in since the early 90's. The only difference is you only see it developing under President Bush. Did we not have armed forces all over the globe, middle east countries hating us, and bin laden wanting to attack us before Bush? COME ON!!!! It's absurd you want to see this as a recent development. What's even more shocking is that you point to these things and then say, "What is YOUR pick for president going to do to resolve this??". Did it occur to you that it's the first time we're even fighting back? Earlier you said you want to fight for the right cause, well what you pointed out were some pretty conviencing causes.




Very true Ill give you the fact that our armed forces have been stationed around the world but are you so blind to see the increase use of military force? Do you not see the mass stationed troops in these countries? and I love this quote the best "You know yourself every threat is not dealt with using force, and if you don't perhaps you should study a history book." Not to praise myself because its one thing I am not about but I’ve probably read more history books than you will in your life time (its my life’s ambition, as well as I am required to working for the U.S. Department of Interior, branch: The National Park Service) and what you try to compare with the past times is extremely different. If you really want me to bore you and the rest of this message board with historical facts, tactics and reasoning, I would be glad to (because to me that’s not boring). Our military did not adopt an all Volunteer system of military till of recent years, to keep invading is absurd and a misuse of military man power. If you are going to take on more than one FULL SCALE military target our forces will be stretched, unless there is a draft. So let me ask you a simple question, do you think it’s smart to take on more than one full scale military target? If so what is your justification? War on Terror, I will support and would even fight for, but I believe one must concentrate on ONE aspect of warfare and its goal at a time.

[cal1082]

but are you so blind to see the increase use of military force?

No that's my point. You want to point out these global problems.

--military force spread across the world
--middle east countries hating us
--bin laden planning attacks

And then someone how pretend these just bubbled out of nowhere when Bush took office. We've had these problems sense Israel became a nation.

We have increased military force in the middle east for example because of terrorism, and protection of Israel. Why do you think we sat up shop in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War.........to keep Saddam in check. Now that he's gone we are able to redeploy these forces. Bush has also talked about redeploying forces in western europe and south korea (cold wars over). Seems your missing the point that Bush is trying to bring a percentage of these troops back up to protect the homeland, which Kerry ended up criticizing him for. Remember Kerry was the one who wanted to bring in 40,000 more troops, not Bush.

Historical note as well during the Cold War our forces were set up to fight TWO military battles at once. Meaning fight the Cold War and another conflict abroad. So yes, to answer your question. It is possible to fight more than one conflict at once. Is it the best strategy, probably not, but you don't need a draft to do it like you claim.

Also I have no idea why you went off on a tangent about the volunteer army.

[cal1082]

"You know yourself every threat is not dealt with using force, and if you don't perhaps you should study a history book."

That's good you read a lot of history books because it'll make my point that most modern threats are not dealt with using force since the UN's establishment and prominance in the 90's. I can give you a list of countries off the top of my head US has dealt with diplomatically (N. Korea, China, Cuba, Soviet Union, Iran, Pakistan/India, Syria, Libya)

[PunkDrums182]

I can't wait to say "I told you so" jackass.
cant wait until something bad happens in america just so you can prove your point? Thats intelligent.

[cal1082]

cant wait until something bad happens in america just so you can prove your point? Thats intelligent.

I'm gonna have to agree. Gone are the days when you wish your opponent the best at making the country its best. Fat Mike proved that as well.

[_astheruinfalls]

It's not that we don't want America to come back, we do. That's why people wanted Kerry. They believed he could do that.

The raeson he is saying that is because of the original topic of the thread. It isn't wishing bad things upon the US, but saying when they do happen, you can't blame the liberals this time.

[KGRGTheDon]

That's why people wanted Kerry...

Hate to break this to you, more people wanted Bush.

[UndefinedBoy]

It's not that we don't want America to come back, we do. That's why people wanted Kerry. They believed he could do that.

The raeson he is saying that is because of the original topic of the thread. It isn't wishing bad things upon the US, but saying when they do happen, you can't blame the liberals this time.

What he said...

[UndefinedBoy]

That's why people wanted Kerry...

Hate to break this to you, more people wanted Bush.

Really? Hadn't noticed...

Well, it was the first time anyway.

[aminorthreat55]

To all the liberals who flung lies around, to the leftist "punks" who hate anything and anyone better off then them, to Mr. Michael Moore, to Fat Mike and the millions of prepubescent fools talking shit about the Republicans, to all who spent millions in the punk voter movement to elect Kerry, to all those calling us "facists", to the thousands of whiney protestors who gathered in New York to attempt and disrupt the NPR, to Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw, to those who hated us, to those who tried to hurt us, to all those pro-abortion, to all those who just follow their Democratic daddies, to all of those who listen to celebrities for political insight, to all those who think that Bush stole the election again, and ESPECIALLY those who called ME names and said I had no free thought and wished or threatened things to me:


YOU LOST, SUCKERS!!! :)

All I heard was "blah blah blah, ignorant comment, asshole, sore winner" Just because he won doesn't mean he's a good leader or anything else. Personally I blame his victory on the Democratic party sucking ass.

[Love As Arson]

The American public doesn't know what is best for them. You can find evidence of this all around, and this election further proves this point.

[yeat182]

The American public doesn't know what is best for them. You can find evidence of this all around, and this election further proves this point.

but you know whats is best for everyone?

[Love As Arson]

but you know whats is best for everyone?
I know that Bush isn't what is best for America.

[cal1082]

but you know whats is best for everyone?

ripped those words right out of my mouth. :lol2:

[KGRGTheDon]

Once again, OBVIOUSLY over half the US thinks Bush is better. In fact, 59,459,765 people thought he was better. Hence, we won. Nothing is going to change this.

[shrguy]

i still don't understand why people are getting banned for being pro-bush.

[_astheruinfalls]

That's why people wanted Kerry...

Hate to break this to you, more people wanted Bush.
ARE YOU SERIOUS!? Gosh, I didn't know more people wanted Bush! I thought Kerry was president.

I wasn't saying this is what everyone wants you fucknut, that's what liberals want.

[_astheruinfalls]

i still don't understand why people are getting banned for being pro-bush.
Are you talking about the UD?

Well, it is a democratic site. They want their own little world. Let them have it. It isn't hurting you.

[aminorthreat55]

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it."
--Mark Twain

[Jason Tate]

i still don't understand why people are getting banned for being pro-bush.
No one was banned for being "pro-bush".

[_astheruinfalls]

Don't you mean pro-war?

[KGRGTheDon]

It's not that we don't want America to come back, we do. That's why people wanted Kerry. They believed he could do that.

Then WHY would you say this? More people voted Bush. Guess what, the election was won fairly. Quit bitchin.

[_astheruinfalls]

Oh my fucking god.

I'M NOT BITCHING. You are just being an incompitent idiot that can not understand simple meanings to sentences. I WAS JUST EXPLAINING THAT THE REASON PEOPLE VOTED FOR KERRY IS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED HE COULD BETTER AMERICA, THEY DON'T HATE AMERICA. That's not bitching.

You're just a fucking IDIOT.

[Love As Arson]

Once again, OBVIOUSLY over half the US thinks Bush is better. In fact, 59,459,765 people thought he was better. Hence, we won. Nothing is going to change this.
As I've said, the majority of the public is ignorant.

[Jason Tate]

Then WHY would you say this? More people voted Bush. Guess what, the election was won fairly. Quit bitchin.
Won fairly? Heh.. heh.. hahahahahahha blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhahahahhahaa ...

Sorry, that's funny.

[dretti]

Won fairly? Heh.. heh.. hahahahahahha blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhahahahhahaa ...

Sorry, that's funny.


How was it not won fairly? It's an election, people vote for who they want. There were no conspiracies, no one fucked up while counting the votes, Bush won. That's all there is to it.

[The Dove Song]

Won fairly? Heh.. heh.. hahahahahahha blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhahahahhahaa ...

Sorry, that's funny.
I don't see how the election wasn't won fairly.

But I don't like that KGRGTheDon guy, so whatever.

[The Dove Song]

How was it not won fairly? It's an election, people vote for who they want. There were no conspiracies, no one fucked up while counting the votes, Bush won. That's all there is to it.
Yeah, what you said.

[_astheruinfalls]

Many polls in Ohio were fucked up. Using computers for elections are not good.

Also, many Republican run voter sign-ups tore up Democrat sign ups.

Also, in Florida, the registration to voter turn out doesn't always match up.

Ballots also were not counted.

[cal1082]

Many polls in Ohio were fucked up. Using computers for elections are not good.

Also, many Republican run voter sign-ups tore up Democrat sign ups.

Also, in Florida, the registration to voter turn out doesn't always match up.

Ballots also were not counted.

Yes Republican's were the only one's that particpated in these fowl activities. Astheruinfalls knows from a first hand account that it was soley the republicans. Bush stole another election right from under everyone's noses. They were able to cheat everyone again, while the democrats just tried to make everything fair. :lipsrseal

[_astheruinfalls]

Well duh.

[cal1082]

Well duh.

Yes, an I'm the extremist, yet at least I can see both sides of tampering in the elections, and I can comprehend that dirty tricks done by BOTH parties was not done on a wide enough scale to affect the election.

You the fair minded individual only see's one side of the tampering, that being the republican side, and determined it cost Kerry the election.........way to go Sherlock.

[_astheruinfalls]

GOSH. No one here has a sense of humor.

[cal1082]

Many polls in Ohio were fucked up. Using computers for elections are not good.

Also, many Republican run voter sign-ups tore up Democrat sign ups.

Also, in Florida, the registration to voter turn out doesn't always match up.

Ballots also were not counted.

I didnt realize that was humor? It's hard to tell your humor from your actual points. That could say something.........

[_astheruinfalls]

I wasn't joking on that. I was stating facts.

My "duh" part was a joke.

[cal1082]

I wasn't joking on that. I was stating facts.

My "duh" part was a joke.

So again...........You the fair minded individual only see's one side of the tampering, that being the republican side, and determined it cost Kerry the election.........way to go Sherlock.

[_astheruinfalls]

So again........duh.

[cal1082]

So again........duh.

point proven

[_astheruinfalls]

I am trying to make an argument against Bush.

Why would I do anything to make him look good?

[cal1082]

I am trying to make an argument against Bush.

Why would I do anything to make him look good?

Because what your doing is one sided and wrong. Perhaps what's right for you is whatever makes Bush look bad, rather than what's actualy right.

You're a partisan hack.

[_astheruinfalls]

No, I'm just playing a game called politics.

I acknowledge that both sides happen. If he asks, I would tell him that yes, both sides did it. But personaly, I believe the Republican's actions more affected the election.

[cal1082]

No, I'm just playing a game called politics.

I acknowledge that both sides happen. If he asks, I would tell him that yes, both sides did it. But personaly, I believe the Republican's actions more affected the election.

That's my point you have nothing to back up your belief beside partisan assumptions.

[_astheruinfalls]

It is not partisan.

It is based that on the proof of both sides sabatoging the election, I see what the Republicans have done as more damaging.

[cal1082]

It is not partisan.

It is based that on the proof of both sides sabatoging the election, I see what the Republicans have done as more damaging.

lol, again no proof just partisan assumptions because you hate Bush.

[_astheruinfalls]

No.

But seeing that when 82% of a county is registered Democratic and 50% of the vote is Republican, something is wrong.

When registration forms of Democrats are being ripped up, something is wrong.

When Democratic counties' computers mainly all breakdown, something is wrong.

[cal1082]

No.

But seeing that when 82% of a county is registered Democratic and 50% of the vote is Republican, something is wrong.(Yes, and lets assume the worst on the republicans, and not even venture to think perhaps it was the candidate that was running on their ticket.)

When registration forms of Democrats (Republicans) are being ripped up, something is wrong.

When Democratic counties' computers mainly all breakdown, something is wrong. PROOF?

:lipsrseal

[cal1082]

No.

But seeing that when 82% of a county is registered Democratic and 50% of the vote is Republican, something is wrong.

When registration forms of Democrats are being ripped up, something is wrong.

When Democratic counties' computers mainly all breakdown, something is wrong.

And again what your showing is just the republican side. pure assumptions that it had a greater affect.

**Also where did you get that 82% of the country is registered democrats?**

[yeat182]

As I've said, the majority of the public is ignorant.

because they don't agree with you?

[yeat182]

Many polls in Ohio were fucked up. Using computers for elections are not good.

Also, many Republican run voter sign-ups tore up Democrat sign ups.

Also, in Florida, the registration to voter turn out doesn't always match up.

Ballots also were not counted.


the same can be said about both sides. complaining that the election wasn't fair is the last gasp effort of a desperate party. they need to accept the fact that the majority of americans do not agree with their elitist ideas.

[yeat182]

I am trying to make an argument against Bush.

Why would I do anything to make him look good?


that statement says an awful lot.

[yeat182]

No.

But seeing that when 82% of a county is registered Democratic and 50% of the vote is Republican, something is wrong.

When registration forms of Democrats are being ripped up, something is wrong.

When Democratic counties' computers mainly all breakdown, something is wrong.


you know what was wrong? not some vast right wing conspiracy, but the democratic canidate. the majority of americans don't like kerry, that is why he lost, not because the republicans stole the election. it says an awful lot about the canidate when 82% of the country is registered with his party and vote republican.

[KGRGTheDon]

ok ok ok we are done, the elections been over for several days now, gloat times over, let's move on

[BrandNew20]

the same can be said about both sides. complaining that the election wasn't fair is the last gasp effort of a desperate party. they need to accept the fact that the majority of americans do not agree with their elitist ideas.

I'm not going to argue, I think the democrats are desperate, they were beat in the election and its obvious that Republicans ran a more effective campaign. But I would like to ask, what ideas of the democrats do you see as elitist?

[cal1082]

I'd like to know where you get that 82% of registered voters are democrats? If anything its aroud 50-50. I wish you would at least attempt to legit with your posts.

[mike_p]

No.

But seeing that when 82% of a county is registered Democratic and 50% of the vote is Republican, something is wrong.

When registration forms of Democrats are being ripped up, something is wrong.

When Democratic counties' computers mainly all breakdown, something is wrong.

I don't know where the hell you got that 82% from (maybe a Michael Moore movie?) but that is certainly not true. I'll trust CNN's estimate over yours or Michael Moore's, thanks.

Exit polls show voters party preference:
Democrats - 37%
Republicans - 37%
Independent - 26%

Everyone knows the exit polls were flawed, and early reports heavily favored Kerry. Keep that in mind when looking at those numbers. Seeing how close the race was they seem about right. Electronic voting is easy as hell, even for old people.

So go toss those disingenuine facts up your arse.

--edit--

Democrats, despite all their efforts, have failed miserably. I thought this election was all Kerry because of the efforts of P. Diddy (he's a moron) and Michael Moore (not a moron, but he plays to the morons), the liberal media, etc. Those guys start spinning facts and kids don't bother to do their homework and accept what they preach as gospel. That is sad.

Oh yeah, most HS graduates, most students with some college, and most college graduates voted for Bush. That surely must have been why the Republicans outsmarted the Democrats in the election, they MUST have cheated. :lipsrseal
CNN.com - Exit Polls (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html)

[Monkey_vs_Robot]

I don't know where the hell you got that 82% from (maybe a Michael Moore movie?) but that is certainly not true. I'll trust CNN's estimate over yours or Michael Moore's, thanks.

Exit polls show voters party preference:
Democrats - 37%
Republicans - 37%
Independent - 26%

Everyone knows the exit polls were flawed, and early reports heavily favored Kerry. Keep that in mind when looking at those numbers. Seeing how close the race was they seem about right. Electronic voting is easy as hell, even for old people.

So go toss those disingenuine facts up your arse.
amen.

[mike_p]

Won fairly? Heh.. heh.. hahahahahahha blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhahahahhahaa ...

Sorry, that's funny.

Why do you think the army of 10,000 democratic lawyers couldn't jump on any imperfection regarding ballots. Bush won fairly, Kerry did the math overnight, and finally conceded. That is all there is to it minus your 2 cent partisan spin.

--edit--

Did you really think all 250,000 of those provisional ballots in Ohio to be pro-Kerry?

[yeat182]

I'm not going to argue, I think the democrats are desperate, they were beat in the election and its obvious that Republicans ran a more effective campaign. But I would like to ask, what ideas of the democrats do you see as elitist?

most of their social programs are inherntly elitist, they say that the government knows what is best for you and can do a better job of it that you can. bigger government means more social control, and less self-reliance.

[BrandNew20]

most of their social programs are inherntly elitist, they say that the government knows what is best for you and can do a better job of it that you can. bigger government means more social control, and less self-reliance.

oh, ok, I can see where you are coming from, but I dont really see it as elitest all the time.( I'm assuming that you're talking about programs like affirmative action, which assumes that the employer is racist and others along the same lines.)

[mike_p]

most of their social programs are inherntly elitist, they say that the government knows what is best for you and can do a better job of it that you can. bigger government means more social control, and less self-reliance.
people didn't realize how big a curveball that health plan was... i mean, talk about the irony of the "punkvoter.com" kids voting for bigger, broader government control on healthcare... talk about corporations... the gov't is the biggest corporation, and I don't want to make it bigger so it hands us more debt...

and who the FUCK wants to pay for an abortion... I don't! I shouldn't have to! but he wanted the public to pay for them...

[mike_p]

oh, ok, I can see where you are coming from, but I dont really see it as elitest all the time.( I'm assuming that you're talking about programs like affirmative action, which assumes that the employer is racist and others along the same lines.)
I don't think its elitist as much as it is an entitlement program... ie, affirmative action, welfare (a gov't handout opportunity)... everyone should work for welfare except certain groups (women who are pregnant or have infants, handicapped)... no gov't handouts. That's another anchor we'll have to deal with later.

[yeat182]

I don't think its elitist as much as it is an entitlement program... ie, affirmative action, welfare (a gov't handout opportunity)... everyone should work for welfare except certain groups (women who are pregnant or have infants, handicapped)... no gov't handouts. That's another anchor we'll have to deal with later.

i agree it is an entitlement program, but the underlying philosophy stems from eliteism. i mean, a perfect example is when bush won the election, it wasn't because more people agreed with his views, it was because the mass of the population is ignorant and didn't know what they were doing.

[richter915]

and who the FUCK wants to pay for an abortion... I don't! I shouldn't have to! but he wanted the public to pay for them...
and so when Bush outlaws abortions...we'll all be fucked, right? I'd rather pay for an abortion than not be able to get one at all.

or move to Canada for a wee-bit when I'm horny...FREE ABORTIONS FOR ALL!

[BrandNew20]

I don't think its elitist as much as it is an entitlement program... ie, affirmative action, welfare (a gov't handout opportunity)... everyone should work for welfare except certain groups (women who are pregnant or have infants, handicapped)... no gov't handouts. That's another anchor we'll have to deal with later.

I dont' think its elitist at all, I actually agree with the policy. I just was trying to show yeat that I thought I knew where he was coming from.

[mike_p]

and so when Bush outlaws abortions...we'll all be fucked, right? I'd rather pay for an abortion than not be able to get one at all.

or move to Canada for a wee-bit when I'm horny...FREE ABORTIONS FOR ALL!
You should be able to check a box and declare you'd like to pay into a public gov't account for abortions. I don't want to pay for that crap, I'm more responsible than to depend on the gov't (read: public) to pay for my girl's abortion (just saying if).

[cal1082]

Again I have to ask where the 82% of registered voters being democrats came from?

[_astheruinfalls]

I don't remember.

And I don't care.

If it was wrong, then it was wrong. It's pointles.

[cal1082]

I don't remember.

And I don't care.

If it was wrong, then it was wrong. It's pointles.

:lol2:

[_astheruinfalls]

Well I'm not going to sit here bickering over something so pointless.

[cal1082]

Well I'm not going to sit here bickering over something so pointless.

:lol2: .........seems to me it's pointless to you because it's dead wrong. Now I don't have a problem with people getting things wrong. We all do it, but the point is you used this "82% of registered voters as democrats" to undermine the legitmacy of Bush's election by saying it's fishy that if 82% are democrats how did Bush win..........basically hinting at fraud.

It's dead wrong, so now it's just pointless. :lol2:

[_astheruinfalls]

I never used it to undermine his win.

How would ONE COUNTY take away from Bush's win? I don't see the connection cal.

I was using that example to show that our elections aren't pure. Yes, I only used points involving Republicans being bad. If you want to call me on that, go ahead.

Sure, it's probably wrong. But the fact is that our elections are faulty. It isn't really candidates winning anymore. It's who can shell out the most money. Which party can scare people the most. It's all crap. On both sides.

[yeat182]

Sure, it's probably wrong. But the fact is that our elections are faulty. It isn't really candidates winning anymore. It's who can shell out the most money. Which party can scare people the most. It's all crap. On both sides.


probably wrong? try completely and totally wrong.

[_astheruinfalls]

Nit pick nit pick.

[mike_p]

Sure, it's probably wrong. But the fact is that our elections are faulty. It isn't really candidates winning anymore. It's who can shell out the most money. Which party can scare people the most. It's all crap. On both sides.

Oh you mean shell out the most money like George Soros and Peter Lewis right?
I'd look into these things before opening my mouth. Take a gander at this:
Top Individual Campaign Contributions in 2004 (http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527indivs.asp?cycle=2004)

Not to mention MTV's Choose (Kerry) or Lose, Vote (Kerry) or Die, Fahrenheit 9/11, MoveOnPAC/MoveOn.org, and the efforts of all the lovely actors in the fakest state in america... Thank you all, for opening up america's eyes!

I do agree both parties use scare tactics, but one party distorts way more than the other. Try covering your bases next time. All that's left is the blame game. I hear democrats are blaming the San Francisco mayor for bringing the gay marriage issue into play, geez... This is sad!

[venus/bacchus]

In TJ's defense, you're not understanding his argument. He was making a note of foul play, and used the 82% statistic to indicate only one county. You can't say that's completely and totally wrong because there are probably very good odds that there was an extremely democratic county that did go Bush's way (just look at the county map above). Now I'm not saying that because a county that almost always goes Dem went for Bush we should start jumping to conclusions, just pointing out the argument he's trying to make and everyone else seems to be losing.

[yeat182]

In TJ's defense, you're not understanding his argument. He was making a note of foul play, and used the 82% statistic to indicate only one county. You can't say that's completely and totally wrong because there are probably very good odds that there was an extremely democratic county that did go Bush's way (just look at the county map above). Now I'm not saying that because a county that almost always goes Dem went for Bush we should start jumping to conclusions, just pointing out the argument he's trying to make and everyone else seems to be losing.

he said county? i thought he said country. my bad. i'm sure there is an 82% democratic county, in fact, i'd bet mine is that heavily democrat.

[_astheruinfalls]

Yeah, I meant county. If I said country, then my bad. I would have to shoot myself before saying that 82% of the country is Democratic.

[_astheruinfalls]

Oh you mean shell out the most money like George Soros and Peter Lewis right?
I'd look into these things before opening my mouth. Take a gander at this:
Top Individual Campaign Contributions in 2004 (http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527indivs.asp?cycle=2004)

Not to mention MTV's Choose (Kerry) or Lose, Vote (Kerry) or Die, Fahrenheit 9/11, MoveOnPAC/MoveOn.org, and the efforts of all the lovely actors in the fakest state in america... Thank you all, for opening up america's eyes!

I do agree both parties use scare tactics, but one party distorts way more than the other. Try covering your bases next time. All that's left is the blame game. I hear democrats are blaming the San Francisco mayor for bringing the gay marriage issue into play, geez... This is sad!
Did I not say both sides?

And I'm sorry, but Choose or Lose was not a partisan effort. It was possible the most bipartisan effort ever. But I guess they hold no rank on bipartisanship to Republican registrators who tear up Democratic ballots.

And I've said none of that. I implied it for both parties because they both do it. Both parties also distort, lie, cheat, steal, and all that goodness.

[_astheruinfalls]

In TJ's defense, you're not understanding his argument. He was making a note of foul play, and used the 82% statistic to indicate only one county. You can't say that's completely and totally wrong because there are probably very good odds that there was an extremely democratic county that did go Bush's way (just look at the county map above). Now I'm not saying that because a county that almost always goes Dem went for Bush we should start jumping to conclusions, just pointing out the argument he's trying to make and everyone else seems to be losing.
Thank you.

[mike_p]

Yeah, I meant county. If I said country, then my bad. I would have to shoot myself before saying that 82% of the country is Democratic.

Sounds like back peddling to me... j/k, mistakes are made

[_astheruinfalls]

I said county.

I guess yeat needs to go back to first grade.

:lol2:

[yeat182]

I said county.

I guess yeat needs to go back to first grade.

:lol2:

gladly. i call the flinstone phone! (100 scene points if you know what thats from)

[_astheruinfalls]

The Flintstones?

Haha.

[yeat182]

The Flintstones?

Haha.

simpsons, when bart has to go back to the 1st grade.

[Sureshot182]

To all the liberals who flung lies around, to the leftist "punks" who hate anything and anyone better off then them, to Mr. Michael Moore, to Fat Mike and the millions of prepubescent fools talking shit about the Republicans, to all who spent millions in the punk voter movement to elect Kerry, to all those calling us "facists", to the thousands of whiney protestors who gathered in New York to attempt and disrupt the NPR, to Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw, to those who hated us, to those who tried to hurt us, to all those pro-abortion, to all those who just follow their Democratic daddies, to all of those who listen to celebrities for political insight, to all those who think that Bush stole the election again, and ESPECIALLY those who called ME names and said I had no free thought and wished or threatened things to me:


YOU LOST, SUCKERS!!! :)

liberals would be doing the exact same thing. and i've never seen such a group of sore losers as kerry supporters. not saying this post is displaying how to be a good winner, but damn. john kerry is worthless...the end.

[oeness]

I think God would have voted for Kerry.

[UndefinedBoy]

I think God would have voted for Kerry.

I think God would've written in...himself.

[oeness]

I think God would've written in...himself.

What party would he be in?

[UndefinedBoy]

What party would he be in?

Most likely an independent.

[yeat182]

Most likely an independent.

no, he'd be in the omnipotent party.

[UndefinedBoy]

no, he'd be in the omnipotent party.

Yeah thats probly more accurate...

[Love As Arson]

God is a right wing radical. He'd never be elected.

[No Control]

As I stated before on the strech of the military, just posting to point out that I didnt just "make shit up" and then Im done with this topic because no matter who says what, no one will convince anyone of anything and George W. will still be running the show. End of story.


“The official view from the Pentagon is that all is going well in Iraq and that the US forces are more than ready to continue the global war against terrorism….The reality is that US forces are now severely overstretched and the number of their military commitments worldwide is increasing by the day.”-- Jane's Intelligence Digest, August 2003

[mike_p]

As I stated before on the strech of the military, just posting to point out that I didnt just "make shit up" and then Im done with this topic because no matter who says what, no one will convince anyone of anything and George W. will still be running the show. End of story.


“The official view from the Pentagon is that all is going well in Iraq and that the US forces are more than ready to continue the global war against terrorism….The reality is that US forces are now severely overstretched and the number of their military commitments worldwide is increasing by the day.”-- Jane's Intelligence Digest, August 2003
Who the fuck cares about what Jane has to say anyway... in August 2003 nonetheless :wink3:

[No Control]

Who the fuck cares about what Jane has to say anyway... in August 2003 nonetheless :wink3:



If it's true.......I do.

[_astheruinfalls]

He's just mad he got owned.