War on Drugs/Drug Policy

[saysmydoctor]

We kind of had this discussion earlier in the General Politics thread, but I really want to see some expansion.

I feel the issue has been relatively ignored in this election year, the only official opinion I know of is Joe Biden supporting the creation of a Drug Czar and the drug courts but voted no on increasing penalties (Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Joe_Biden_Drugs.htm). Obama has mentioned revisiting the drug policy where Bush has failed (Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kurt-schmoke/obama-not-completely-sile_b_103122.html).

McCain supports stricter penalties and stricter enforcement. (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_McCain_Drugs.htm).

The drug policy of the US is completely unbalanced. Drug laws very from state to state yet all possession is illegal under federal law which trumps state law. The argument that is wrong because the Constitution gives police powers to the state. Drug usage has risen in categories since the end of prohibition except opium usage.

My personal opinion is nonenforcement be the official policy of the US. I think that restriction has created the drug cartels, the drug problem. The Netherlands operates under the policy of nonenforcement and also harm reduction intervention, syringe exchange programs. (Source: http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/westerneurop/thenetherlan/). The standing policy/belief is that if you make the soft drugs more accessible, there will be less interest in hard drugs. They combat the production and trafficking of drugs, however.

(More information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands)

Discuss.

[phil19]

i like how youve referenced everything

[We'reAllThieves]

My personal stance, end the war on marijuana, which they spend most of their money on, and crack down harder on the more illicit hardcore drugs, i.e. cocaine and meth and heroin.

I think the 12 states that have legalized medical marijuana have the right mind set for what drug policy should be. Pharms are worse, easily worse, than weed, yet the government and drug czars continuously harm such harmless plant.

[saysmydoctor]

We could make so much money off of marijuana: http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2006/biggest-us-cash-crop.html

[phil19]

i dont know what the laws are in the US but in australia you can buy pipes and shit in which to smoke marijuana, but the marijuana itself is illegal.
ive never understood that

[We'reAllThieves]

i dont know what the laws are in the US but in australia you can buy pipes and shit in which to smoke marijuana, but the marijuana itself is illegal.
ive never understood that

It is legal in most states to own pipes and bongs, but only for use as a tobacco accessory.

And yes, we can make tons of money off of marijuana.

I do believe there is a legislation going to California for total legalization, it might be a rumor.

[saysmydoctor]

I don't think pipes would be consider paraphenelia (sp?), but I know grow material would.

[We'reAllThieves]

I don't think pipes would be consider paraphenelia (sp?), but I know grow material would.

They're considered paraphenalia here in Idaho.

[phil19]

It is legal in most states to own pipes and bongs, but only for use as a tobacco accessory.

And yes, we can make tons of money off of marijuana.

I do believe there is a legislation going to California for total legalization, it might be a rumor.

who smokes tobacco from a bong?? haha

[We'reAllThieves]

who smokes tobacco from a bong?? haha

No one, but it's a smart way to keep bongs legal

[saysmydoctor]

My personal issue with the War on Drugs is the federal infringement on the state's responsibility. The overlap is bullshit, there shouldn't be a federal law concerning marijuana usage. In 1996, nearly 60% of those incarcerated were do to drug-related crimes.

[phil19]

No one, but it's a smart way to keep bongs legal

i see your logic

[We'reAllThieves]

My personal issue with the War on Drugs is the federal infringement on the state's responsibility. The overlap is bullshit, there shouldn't be a federal law concerning marijuana usage. In 1996, nearly 60% of those incarcerated were do to drug-related crimes.

It all comes down to expansion of the government on this one, and of course the fear of the big pharm corporations. Just think about it, if marijuana is totally legalized then HUGE medical boundaries will be broken from the potential of marijuana.

[open mind]

the war on drugs is bullshit.
it's good for creating jobs for idiots in small towns that have lost industry, giving the authorities excuse to harrass otherwise law abiding citizens, supplying a pretext to go around the globe fucking up other countries, legitamizing the practice of what amounts to enslaving and disenfranchising millions of (mostly poor) people, and curbing the competition the pharmecutical companies have to deal with, but not much else.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

The War on Drugs has created several new major problems. The fact prisons are overflowed is because of drug laws. A real war on drugs would constitute a war on poverty. And revise the punishment over weed. That does less harm than alcohol does.

[saysmydoctor]

Drug laws enforced in the name of the war on drugs. I advise everyone in this thread to read Eric Schlosser's Reefer Madness.

[Nevuk]

They're considered paraphenalia here in Idaho.
Odd.
I don't think pipes would be consider paraphenelia (sp?), but I know grow material would.
I think it is considered paraphernalia usually if they find it with marijuana residue. I've seen things considered paraphernalia if merely found with drugs, but they also consider cut up straws the same. (A friend got really high and started cutting up straws he took from mcdonalds. The officers thought they were snorters, but they only found marijuana on him so it's very confusing).
who smokes tobacco from a bong?? haha
Ever tried it? Hookahs are fairly fun, and a lot less addictive than cigarettes. I officially suck at using them due to throwing up the first time I used it, but my friends always get bad flavors.
My personal issue with the War on Drugs is the federal infringement on the state's responsibility. The overlap is bullshit, there shouldn't be a federal law concerning marijuana usage. In 1996, nearly 60% of those incarcerated were do to drug-related crimes.
Yes, and it makes no sense to throw someone addicted to heroin into jail - they'll go through withdrawal and can genuinely die from it. Same for meth, cocaine, crack, etc.

[We'reAllThieves]

And another problem is data misconstrues (right context of word?) a lot of things. For instance, people who get busted for marijuana usually have a choice of going to jail or going through rehab. WHat do you think they are going to chose? Rehab of course. So everyone thinks that marijuana is bad because so many people are going through rehab. It's ridiculous.

[phil19]

Odd.

I think it is considered paraphernalia usually if they find it with marijuana residue. I've seen things considered paraphernalia if merely found with drugs, but they also consider cut up straws the same. (A friend got really high and started cutting up straws he took from mcdonalds. The officers thought they were snorters, but they only found marijuana on him so it's very confusing).

Ever tried it? Hookahs are fairly fun, and a lot less addictive than cigarettes. I officially suck at using them due to throwing up the first time I used it, but my friends always get bad flavors.

Yes, and it makes no sense to throw someone addicted to heroin into jail - they'll go through withdrawal and can genuinely die from it. Same for meth, cocaine, crack, etc.

oh yeah those things, i guess they are like bongs. i went to one of those palour thingies where you get them. wasnt a big fan to be honest. i dont really like tobacco though so maybe that had something to do with it

[We'reAllThieves]

I don't know, it's not really tobacco, can't recall what it is.

[buff]

it's good for creating jobs for idiots in small towns that have lost industry, giving the authorities excuse to harrass otherwise law abiding citizens

Why do you think that every cop in America is here just to harass, beat, and abuse their powers? It's remarkable that you would think that every cop is a bad cop.


The War on Drugs has created several new major problems. The fact prisons are overflowed is because of drug laws.

So we're saying the fact that the prisons are overflowed is because too many people are breaking the law? That's an odd reason to put people in prison.

[oldwirehands]

This was aired on some station in Washington. Its like a half hour show promoting the refromation of the marijuana laws. Its really "parent friendly". I sent it to my parents today haha.

1156862632967780733

[We'reAllThieves]

So we're saying the fact that the prisons are overflowed is because too many people are breaking the law? That's an odd reason to put people in prison.

The reason the prisons are overflowing is because so many of the people that are put in prison are people who have bought minimal amounts of marijuana and were put in for it. Most drug cases involve marijuana. People who just buy marijuana for recreational usage should not be put in prison, which is happening. The only people who should be put in prison for most drugs are people who traffic hardcore drugs.

[phil19]

The reason the prisons are overflowing is because so many of the people that are put in prison are people who have bought minimal amounts of marijuana and were put in for it. Most drug cases involve marijuana. People who just buy marijuana for recreational usage should not be put in prison, which is happening. The only people who should be put in prison for most drugs are people who traffic hardcore drugs.

agreed. most marijuana users are not hurting anyone and do not impact on others in any way. addicts of more serious drugs also should not be put into jail. they should instead got to rehab where they can get past their addiction in the proper environment.

[open mind]

agreed. most marijuana users are not hurting anyone and do not impact on others in any way. addicts of more serious drugs also should not be put into jail. they should instead got to rehab where they can get past their addiction in the proper environment.

you mean a place without easily obtained drugs that's not full of violent gangs, and fear of rape?
crazy talk.

edit:had to edit cause it didn't make full sense.

[phil19]

you mean a place with easily obtained drugs lacking violent gangs, and fear of rape?
crazy talk.

thats exactly what i mean

[&IllBeTheReason]

I do believe that marijuana should be legalized, because it is true that as soon as something is illegal, we lose control over it. But I think hard drug users should have stricter punishments. These people need more incentive to stop, and punishment now is not helping.

[open mind]

I do believe that marijuana should be legalized, because it is true that as soon as something is illegal, we lose control over it. But I think hard drug users should have stricter punishments. These people need more incentive to stop, and punishment now is not helping.

we need stricter punishments because punishment doesn't help?
makes sense.

[We'reAllThieves]

I do believe that marijuana should be legalized, because it is true that as soon as something is illegal, we lose control over it. But I think hard drug users should have stricter punishments. These people need more incentive to stop, and punishment now is not helping.

I agree with you.

California is going to be the first for legalization, I can believe it!

[&IllBeTheReason]

we need stricter punishments because punishment doesn't help?
makes sense.
'stricter punishment' and 'punishment now'
How is that the same?
Nice try, though.

[&IllBeTheReason]

I agree with you.

California is going to be the first for legalization, I can believe it!
Lol, and Florida will be the last.

[We'reAllThieves]

Lol, and Florida will be the last.

No, Florida then Idaho.

[&IllBeTheReason]

No, Florida then Idaho.
Truth.

[open mind]

'stricter punishment' and 'punishment now'
How is that the same?
Nice try, though.

punishment now is totally fucking outrageous.....making punishments harsher makes no sense because like you say punishment is proven to be totally ineffective.
punishments made harsher then they are now will do nothing but drive the prices of illegal drugs up.

[&IllBeTheReason]

punishment now is totally fucking outrageous.....making punishments harsher makes no sense because like you say punishment is proven to be totally ineffective.
punishments made harsher then they are now will do nothing but drive the prices of illegal drugs up.
I completely, and respectfully, disagree. With all those marijuana users out of jails, it won't cost much more to put tighter security on everything that goes in, and make sentences longer. I don't believe that rehab helps, but if an inmate is in their long enough with no access(which I know is impossible to do completely but it can be alot better than it is now) to the drug, they're more likely to get off of it.

[open mind]

illegal drugs are easily obtained in our nations correctional facilities.....and there's no way short of breaking several constitutional rights that the flow of contraband into our prisons and jails can be stopped.

you don't believe rehab helps? do some research and you'll see it's the only thing that's even moderately effective in helping addicts get and stay clean.

what do you mean by harsher sentences? 5 years? ten years? twenty years? life?.......well guess what there are plenty of drug dealers and users doing that kind of time already.

having done a bit of time myself i can say that prison is like college for the criminal set, so i don't get why anyone would say it's a good idea to put people in there for victimless and/or petty crimes for longer amounts of time.

[We'reAllThieves]

I have an idea. Send them to the island, pull a Charlie.

[oldwirehands]

lol this is a real debate? come on. prohibition didn't work with alcohol and its not working with anything else. if a product exist, people will get a hold of it. its so easy. might as well regulate everything to make it as legit as possible.

[samsara]

i think marijuana should be legal just as long as its not laced with other stuff

NM already gave away a couple of medical marijauna licenses and the government came in and tried to arrest and harass the people that has the lisences

they should have better things to do like catch murders and rapist

i dont think its harmful just as long as no one drives after doing it though because some people get effed up

[saysmydoctor]

Again, everyone. Check out the Dutch model on drug policy.

[We'reAllThieves]

Again, everyone. Check out the Dutch model on drug policy.

It's not entirely legal there though, just very tolerated.

[saysmydoctor]

Nonenforcement. ;)

[We'reAllThieves]

Pretty much, let us hope!

[samsara]

let people smoke

no harm no foul

thats my opnion

[Nevuk]

let people smoke

no harm no foul

thats my opnion
How are the UFO's treating you down there?

jk

[samsara]

How are the UFO's treating you down there?

jk

haha they are good no abductions as of lately