Russia to conduct military exercises in Caribbean

[ToMyBetterAngel]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-chavez8-2008sep08,0,7210282.story?track=rss


Russia seems like it is looking to even the score with America for its presence in the black sea.

Are we headed for another full on cold war?

[benjammun]

Oh I can't wait for the liberal media outrage, what a brazen, aggressive move by those commun...er..Czarist Russians, sending warships to Venezuela. They're only in it for the oil! Nevermind the billion dollar missile 'defense' system in Poland, radar stations in Israel, and eager admittance of every Russia-neighboring country into NATO. That's containment.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

I actually agree with you. Since the fall of the USSR, Russia has watched as nato expanded almost to its borders, and now it has decided it has had enough.

I think this whole ordeal is more serious than many people recognize. Russia is making its stand against the U.S., and is seeking to end this period of American global dominance.

[benjammun]

Its shocking how subservient the media has been during this whole affair, they don't even try and hide it anymore. For example, CNN recently interviewed Vladimir Putin and, as biased as he may be, the interview has a refreshing quality of actually making some sense (http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/cnns-english-transcript-of-putin.html) It's a very good read, though naturally only about 9 minutes of the conversation were aired on TV.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

I also don't like how Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili is acting in the midst of this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080907/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia

"Georgia's president vowed Sunday to regain control of two breakaway provinces with the help of "the rest of the world."

Russia has made it absolutely clear that it will not bow to international pressure or sanctions, so what is Saakashvili hoping for? Open warfare?

[benjammun]

More direct U.S. involvement, which he is receiving in the form of 'humanitarian' aid carried by U.S. warships. Saakashvili is really just a puppet, though.

[roguemerica]

fuck the Georgians, they're nothing but scoundrels with a former criminal for their president who rigged up his election with the orange revolution!
Now the americans will be lured into another unnecessary war in a strange part of the world we have nothing to do with.
4000 dead in Iraq!, (thousands more in Vietnam) isn't that enough for a war we provoked which had nothing to do with terror initially. Bin Ladin was in Afghanistan for goodness sake, in the boarder between Afghanistan and Pakistan, not in bed with bloody Sadam Hussein.
Wake up Guys that is not our war, that is the EU's business. We are only provoking the situation by placing more patriot missiles in Poland to defend against Iranian missiles ????? thousands of miles away.... Am I missing something here guys.
And the poor Brits and Euros will quietly follow us to the new war front in Georgia like mongrels as usual, hahahahahahaha..................... .. suckers they are, And now..... South and central America.

[_jonas]

I am fully for anything furthering the end of our civilization.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

I am fully for anything furthering the end of our civilization.

Even if it could possibly lead to global war and the end of life as we know it?

[_jonas]

Even if it could possibly lead to global war and the end of life as we know it?
duhh, end of civilization.

[konvalbr]

I love how the US sells other countries all of our old airplanes and weapons only to have the countries turn on us later on. thanks politicians!!!!!!!

[benjammun]

fuck the Georgians, they're nothing but scoundrels with a former criminal for their president who rigged up his election with the orange revolution!
Now the americans will be lured into another unnecessary war in a strange part of the world we have nothing to do with.
4000 dead in Iraq!, (thousands more in Vietnam) isn't that enough for a war we provoked which had nothing to do with terror initially. Bin Ladin was in Afghanistan for goodness sake, in the boarder between Afghanistan and Pakistan, not in bed with bloody Sadam Hussein.
Wake up Guys that is not our war, that is the EU's business. We are only provoking the situation by placing more patriot missiles in Poland to defend against Iranian missiles ????? thousands of miles away.... Am I missing something here guys.
And the poor Brits and Euros will quietly follow us to the new war front in Georgia like mongrels as usual, hahahahahahaha..................... .. suckers they are, And now..... South and central America.

I think you're mistaking Georgia's agency in this whole affair. You do realize they would have never been stupid enough to invade Ossetia had the U.S. not supported them, both with military aid and diplomacy? I think you have to look at the situation with respect to history, especially post-Soviet history, with respect to U.S. interventions in Eastern Europe constructing a NATO stranglehold around one of the last remaining pillars of U.S. hegemony. Hence our alliances with countries like Turkey and Ukraine, despite their horrid record for human rights abuses. The fact is, these are countries with strategic importance if you want to control the energy reserves from the Caspian Sea and I think there you find the underlying motive for the whole conflict.

[open mind]

i can't blame russia to much for drawing a line in the sand.

[benjammun]

Palin should know all about this, she does live right next to Russia.

[The Affliction]

lolololol

[The Affliction]

It is hard to say whether Russia was acting in the interests of international law; I think they were, although it is a conflict that speaks of much danger for both sides. Russia isn't afraid, and has shown they are willing to meet U.S. meddling in their realm of influence with as much aggressiveness, although more openly displayed. I do not believe they were attacked, nor victimized, nor innocent, just as much as I do not believe that the Georgians are. I think this is just an interesting area for this conflict to surface. However, I do not presume to know anything of Russian history, apart from what is fed to us in grade school.

I know only a small amount that I've read about Ossetia not being originally Russian, but Georgian. Regardless, I feel that laws are being pushed, and thus so are tensions. It is(n't) surprising, though, that the U.S. have responded in such a blatant manner. Putin at least can put that into perspective.

[roguemerica]

so who do we vote for?
Obama & team so that they will further the conflicts or McCain & team who will further the conflicts. The difference being one team will make peace with Iran and the other team will maintain the status quo. Isn't there anyone or teams that offer better options for the US suffering citizens out there??
Why don't we all simply refuse to vote as a protest against our young men and women dying because of rogue mainstream political parties' misguided policies on geopolitics.

[incredulous]

so who do we vote for?
Obama & team so that they will further the conflicts or McCain & team who will further the conflicts. The difference being one team will make peace with Iran and the other team will maintain the status quo. Isn't there anyone or teams that offer better options for the US suffering citizens out there??
Why don't we all simply refuse to vote as a protest against our young men and women dying because of rogue mainstream political parties' misguided policies on geopolitics.
And not voting would change...what, exactly? Refusing your right to vote is not exactly protest. People will say it's just another example of youth apathy.

You're lucky to be able to vote. Throwing away that right does not make a "statement". It's like a political shrug.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080911/ap_on_re_eu/russia_venezuela_bombers

Well that happened quicker than I thought it would...

[benjammun]

I love Chavez, Venezuela has a better democratic system than this country will ever have. For that matter, so will Bolivia, whom the US continues to harass for being such a positive example of economic and social progress in 'our little area of the world.'

But yeah, here's a pretty good controlled experiment about the 'liberal' media. Compare news articles in the Times and the Post about this incident compared to US 'containment' in the area, missile systems in Turkey and Poland, warships in the Black Sea, admitting NATO to every possible neighboring country. It should be interesting.

Imagine, what would happen if Russia attempted to admit Canada and Mexico into NATO. Or for that matter, sent warships into the Gulf of Mexico pointed straight into the heartland. Unacceptable.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

I love Chavez, Venezuela has a better democratic system than this country will ever have. For that matter, so will Bolivia, whom the US continues to harass for being such a positive example of economic and social progress in 'our little area of the world.'

But yeah, here's a pretty good controlled experiment about the 'liberal' media. Compare news articles in the Times and the Post about this incident compared to US 'containment' in the area, missile systems in Turkey and Poland, warships in the Black Sea, admitting NATO to every possible neighboring country. It should be interesting.

Imagine, what would happen if Russia attempted to admit Canada and Mexico into NATO. Or for that matter, sent warships into the Gulf of Mexico pointed straight into the heartland. Unacceptable.

Yep. The hipocrasy of this country is getting a little too obvious.

[roguemerica]

and now...... from BBC
what the heck is going on?????????????

Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov has accused the United States of emboldening Georgia to start a war in the Caucasus to test Russian resolve.


Mr Kadyrov, who is a keen supporter of the Russian government, said Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili had been dancing to Washington's tune.
But he said that Russia had responded decisively during last month's conflict and shown it was the stronger power.
Mr Kadyrov made the remarks in a speech at the presidential palace near Grozny.
The newly constructed complex outside the Chechen capital comes complete with a private race course, artificial lake and miniature mountain, as well as Mr Kadyrov's personal zoo of panthers, leopards and bears.
The wild beasts, he said, had a calming influence on him, and he liked to talk and play with them in his spare time.

'Testing ground'
The small Russian republic of Chechnya has waged two brutal wars in the past 15 years against Russia, and Mr Kadyrov's father, Akhmad, fought as a field commander before switching allegiance to the Kremlin.
But the 31-year-old leader was adamant that the republic was now loyal to Moscow.
Therefore, Russia's recent decision to recognise the independence of two other breakaway regions in the Caucasus, the Georgian enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, would not reopen the question of Chechen independence, he said.
Mr Kadyrov confirmed that Chechen units and paramilitaries had fought with Russians against Georgians in South Ossetia last month.
"We Chechens are obliged to be on the front line with Russia because we are warriors, and we know what war is," he explained.
But he also went further to accuse the US of using the Caucasus as a testing ground to challenge Russia's resolve.
Mr Kadyrov claimed Georgia's President Saakashvili had been dancing to the US government's tune, and that through Georgia the US had provoked a confrontation.
But he said that Russia had responded decisively and shown the US that it was the stronger power.

'Common language'
President Kadyrov also said he was not worried that escalating tensions in the neighbouring republics of Ingushetia and Dagestan could again destabilise Chechnya.
"After 1999 we found a common language with Russia and now we'll stay in the Russian Federation," he said.
He added that after 1999 - the start of the second war with Russia - Chechens had realised they were being manipulated by foreign powers and had become a target for criminals from outside Chechnya who were largely responsible for the lawlessness and acts of terrorism of the time.
Mr Kadyrov said a turning point had been the death of the rebel Chechen commander, Shamil Basayev, in 2006, allegedly the mastermind behind numerous large-scale terrorist attacks.
The president said he had greeted the news of Basayev's death as a cause for celebration, but had been sad he had not been able to wreck vengeance on him personally for the thousands of deaths he had caused.

Rebuilding Grozny
As for Chechnya's prospects now, he said Moscow was helping to finance an intensive programme of reconstruction to bring peace and prosperity to the republic, and that funds were so plentiful it was difficult to spend them.
Already, the centre of Grozny, once a mass of ruins after repeated bombardments during the war years, has been completely transformed.
A giant mosque now dwarfs Grozny's central square, surrounded by parks of flower beds and fountains. New five and nine-storey blocks of flats line some of the main streets.
But behind them you can still see ruins of war-damaged houses left without windows or roofs, and bomb craters, now overgrown with grass and small trees.
President Kadyrov said he was now trying to persuade Chechens who had fled during the war years to return, including the former actor and prime minister of the rebel government, Akhmed Zakayev.
Mr Zakayev is currently resident in London, but is wanted by the Russian government on terrorism charges.
President Kadyrov however described Mr Zakayev as a valuable artist who would be welcome to return to help revive Chechnya's cultural heritage

[benjammun]

It was clearly a deliberate provocation. Why else attack only civilians and Russian peacekeepers? If Georgia (US) was trying to initiate a military coup, they decided not to use any of the more conventional methods that we've used in the past (taking over TV, radio, airports, kidnapping prominent officials).

It all becomes a bit too convenient, in my opinion, when you discover that John McCain's foreign policy aide and renowned neo-con Randy Scheunemann (Project for a New American Century) is a Georgian lobbyist receiving upwards of $800,000 to lobby on their behalf. I mean, come on, the guy is on par with Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, he helped initiate the Iraqi (under Bush I and II), Bosnian, and Somali war-plan, and he's JOHN MCCAIN'S CHEIF FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER! WTF DEMOCRATS, SAY SOMETHING!! AHGGGHDFHFGH