Official: Obama/Biden Thread

[Jason Tate]

For news, updates, discussion related to Obama/Biden.

[Jason Tate]

Latest ad:

wXb_ZXbIsi0

[loveisdead]

That's an awesome ad.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

I mised this last night but this is the Bill O'Reilly Interview. Despite my opinions on Mr. O'Reilly, the inteview is quite good. Obama really gives it to Bill.
FLfYQqxp884

[Jason Tate]

Thanks for posting that WarpedSpeed - I've been meaning to see this.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

You're welcomed. I hate that I'm gonna miss it tonight though. It always interesting to see Obama really get specifics like that and really prove his points. Makes me look forward to the debates even more.

[Adeniz19]

forgot all about that. i hate how the split it into 4 parts

[Jason Tate]

forgot all about that. i hate how the split it into 4 parts
It ruins any flow.

[loveisdead]

You're welcomed. I hate that I'm gonna miss it tonight though. It always interesting to see Obama really get specifics like that and really prove his points. Makes me look forward to the debates even more.
I'm worried about the debates. I'd like to see him be a little more straightfoward and blunt.

[Jason Tate]

I'm worried about the debates. I'd like to see him be a little more straightfoward and blunt.
"I am cutting taxes for 95% of you."

Seems blunt to me.

Obama is far better in debates than McCain -- watching McCain in the primaries was painful.

[Adeniz19]

I'm worried about the debates. I'd like to see him be a little more straightfoward and blunt.
it's easy to be straightforward and blunt when all it is is empty statements

[loveisdead]

it's easy to be straightforward and blunt when all it is is empty statements
I keep thinking back to Saddleback. Obama had a lot of trouble with some questions, whereas McCain did very well.

[Jason Tate]

I keep thinking back to Saddleback. Obama had a lot of trouble with some questions, whereas McCain did very well.
That's because Obama's positions are not that his "faith" should dictate policy. McCain has no such qualms. The questions in that forum were loaded in a way that was irrelevant to the office. That and McCain reportedly had access to the questions beforehand.

[Adeniz19]

I keep thinking back to Saddleback. Obama had a lot of trouble with some questions, whereas McCain did very well.
i know that's what the average person wants to hear but i see nothing wrong with actually explaining your positions.

[loveisdead]

That's because Obama's positions are not that his "faith" should dictate policy. McCain has no such qualms. The questions in that forum were loaded in a way that was irrelevant to the office. That and McCain reportedly had access to the questions beforehand.
Good point. We'll wait and see. I hope Obama really hands it to McCain.

[Jason Tate]

Good point. We'll wait and see. I hope Obama really hands it to McCain.
Me too ... we'll see I guess. Think the fundamental flaw in the "faith" forum is that it's a forum regarding "faith" - something that means as much to the office of Presidency as an asshole on my elbow. When asked "when does life begin" - you are asking what a man believes, not what the policies he will enact are, or so forth. It's irrelevant. That entire thing bugged me.

:shrug:

[blindrider529]

Me too ... we'll see I guess. Think the fundamental flaw in the "faith" forum is that it's a forum regarding "faith" - something that means as much to the office of Presidency as an asshole on my elbow. It's irrelevant. :shrug:

Well, I think that faith and/or religion (or lack thereof) is very often a massive part of a person's worldview. I definately think that how a person looks at the world and what they really believe about the universe and their "purpose" in it is important. It's really just a glimpse into the head and/or heart of a person.

It's important to know, especially if that faith/religion is something that plays a large role in the candidates decision making process. I generally think that Obama, Biden, McCain, Palin would probably make decisions that they think are good or "moral", and it can be important to know what they believe IS good and moral.

note: I'm not saying it's important to be religious. I'm saying it's important for us to know what makes our candidates tick.

[Jason Tate]

Well, I think that faith and/or religion (or lack thereof) is very often a massive part of a person's worldview. I definately think that how a person looks at the world and what they really believe about the universe and their "purpose" in it is important. It's really just a glimpse into the head and/or heart of a person.

It's important to know, especially if that faith/religion is something that plays a large role in the candidates decision making process. I generally think that Obama, Biden, McCain, Palin would probably make decisions that they think are good or "moral", and it can be important to know what they believe IS good and moral.

note: I'm not saying it's important to be religious. I'm saying it's important for us to know what makes our candidates tick.
The idea that one must have faith or religion for them to be "moral" is absurd.

[blindrider529]

The idea that one must have faith or religion for them to be "moral" is absurd.
I agree. That's not what I am saying, though.

I'm just saying that it's important to know what a candidate really believes about the world and how they will or won't dictate their particular view. It's just a more intimate look at the person I think. It's important to know the policies of a candidate, and it's important to know what drives them to conclude that their policies are correct.

I just like the idea of a closer look at the person. Unfortunately a lot of people will take that closer look and make their decision about the person in a superficial way.

[nfggc10]

The idea that one must have faith or religion for them to be "moral" is absurd.Especially when those of "faith" so often fail to live by their own moral codes. The whole argument that the two are dependent upon each other is one only religious people make to try and defend themselves in an argument. Completely ridiculous.

[loveisdead]

I agree. That's not what I am saying, though.

I'm just saying that it's important to know what a candidate really believes about the world and how they will or won't dictate their particular view. It's just a more intimate look at the person I think. It's important to know the policies of a candidate, and it's important to know what drives them to conclude that their policies are correct.

I just like the idea of a closer look at the person. Unfortunately a lot of people will take that closer look and make their decision about the person in a superficial way.
You're right. And that is fucking scary.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

"I am cutting taxes for 95% of you."

Seems blunt to me.

Obama is far better in debates than McCain -- watching McCain in the primaries was painful.
Obama can be simple while being able to go into specifics. That ability will help in the debates. McCain really kind of looks lost in that regard.

I keep thinking back to Saddleback. Obama had a lot of trouble with some questions, whereas McCain did very well.
I disagree, plus that really wasn't a debate either. Obama gave more of an introspective and complicated answer that reflected the truth than McCain responses which were too simple. Though Obama did slip up from time to time in that interview but I thought it was good.

[loveisdead]

Obama can be simple while being able to go into specifics. That ability will help in the debates. McCain really kind of looks lost in that regard.


I disagree, plus that really wasn't a debate either. Obama gave more of an introspective and complicated answer that reflected the truth than McCain responses which were too simple. Though Obama did slip up from time to time in that interview but I thought it was good.
I don't think Obama did that poorly, but McCain didn't miss a beat in his answers and the public really responded well to it. It will be much different when it is a debate about issues and how they are going to get fixed. McCain has yet to tell us how that is going to happen, so I'm hoping that comes through in the debates as well.

[highpi]

I don't think Obama did that poorly, but McCain didn't miss a beat in his answers and the public really responded well to it. It will be much different when it is a debate about issues and how they are going to get fixed. McCain has yet to tell us how that is going to happen, so I'm hoping that comes through in the debates as well.
AMERICA FUCK YEAH
VOTE FOR MCCAIN OR LICK MY BALLS

[The Affliction]

I agree. That's not what I am saying, though.

I'm just saying that it's important to know what a candidate really believes about the world and how they will or won't dictate their particular view. It's just a more intimate look at the person I think. It's important to know the policies of a candidate, and it's important to know what drives them to conclude that their policies are correct.

I just like the idea of a closer look at the person. Unfortunately a lot of people will take that closer look and make their decision about the person in a superficial way.

But on the same hand, we know that Barack is a Christian, and so he will likely follow its tenets of altruism. Already we can see some of it; he wants to relieve most of the economy through sacrifice. But he also has a sense of realism. The reason faith-based ideals are unimportant in a President is because nothing in the world can be conducted using ritual nor justified using religious moral codes, if only for the fact that the world is highly diversified, with the largest country in the world being primarily, by Western standards, atheistic. Barack's realism and use of rationality in policy-making is what, I think, grants him more legitimacy, regardless of how idealistic some points of his policy may seem. He is pro-science, which, in my opinion, is enough by itself to justify his election.

[Adeniz19]

biden's comments today about stem cells get major props from me

[highpi]

biden's comments today about stem cells get major props from me
sounds good to me. Yup

[CloseToShore]

He is pro-science, which, in my opinion, is enough by itself to justify his election.

The good thing is, he knows the difference between science and religion. Can one be pro-religion and pro-science, and have the capacity to know how to separate the difference between the two? Yes. Obama can. For the most part, the majority of the Republican party (at least the right wing of it anyways) can't. That itself is also reason enough to vote for Obama.

[saysmydoctor]

AMERICA FUCK YEAH
VOTE FOR MCCAIN OR LICK MY BALLS
You're done.

[highpi]

You're done.
Im not done. the name is stevie. yup

[MidCal]

AMERICA FUCK YEAH
VOTE FOR MCCAIN OR LICK MY BALLS
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee190/zkriddle/flamesuit.jpg

[GiggsOho]

Obama came out today and said some stuff about education that is a HUGE turn-off for me. He wants to double the funding to charter schools. I am so tired of this country's government writing checks to fix problems instead of actually using their heads. This is a big slap in the face for anyone actually fighting a progressive, liberal movement. I'm completely against this stance, and I think it's deplorable Obama is for the current system in place.

[The Affliction]

Education is tough.

Lol @ this though,

Later in the day, McCain's campaign rolled out a fresh televison ad that says Obama's only education accomplishment is "legislation to teach comprehensive sex education" to kindergartners." The ad raises the question "learning about sex before learning to read?" and calls Obama "wrong for your family."

[GiggsOho]

Education is tough.

Lol @ this though,


That, like the Obama camp said, is deplorable. If McCain wins this election, I might get involved in politics. I'm completely serious. As an American, I am completely offended by the pandering to the uneducated in this country.

[The Affliction]

It's so fucking commonplace, and so obviously wrong. I hate, hate hate it with all my spirit. I don't understand it, and it enrages me.

Another quote:
The use of the Internet and text-messaging may drive the outcome, particularly among the young voters who have been among Obama's most enthusiastic backers. The question is whether they will come to the polls in large numbers in November; if they do, it would be the first time since the voting age was lowered to 18 in 1972 that they will substantially affect the result.
Fuck yeah, time to galvanize my age group.

[GiggsOho]

It's so fucking commonplace, and so obviously wrong. I hate, hate hate it with all my spirit. I don't understand it, and it enrages me.

Another quote:


Fuck yeah, time to galvanize my age group.

Seriously, get your friends who go "pshh, im not voting" to vote. There is too much at stake this time around not to vote.

[The Affliction]

The pandering is, truthfully, the biggest self-parody the world could see; it's one notch away from outright lying.

[The Affliction]

I know, I totally agree. It's like walking on eggshells every day.

[GiggsOho]

MY NEW COMPUTER BACKGROUND:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/img/ZZ7A3474E6.jpg

[The Affliction]

Hahaha, fuckin bad :D

[CloseToShore]

MY NEW COMPUTER BACKGROUND:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/img/ZZ7A3474E6.jpg
That's the best one I've seen yet! hahaha!

[Mercy Medical]

Earlier Wednesday, Obama's campaign announced it was launching "Alaska Mythbusters," a group of Alaskans that the campaign says will "set the record straight" about Palin.

Former Alaska Gov. Tony Knowles and Bob Weinstein, mayor of the city that would have been home to the "Bridge to Nowhere," planned to discuss Palin's record in a conference call later Wednesday.

Obama's group comes the day after McCain deployed the "Palin Truth Squad" to fight future attacks on his vice presidential nominee.

Source (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/campaign.wrap/index.html?eref=rss_politics)

[Adeniz19]

Biden on how he is going to prepare for the debate:

"She's going to try to make it as personal as she can. She's going to take a lot of straight lefts and jabs at me, she's going to try to get me to respond, she's going to try to get me to respond in a personal way," Biden said at a fundraiser Tuesday night in Chicago. "That's not my style. I'm not going to do it."
"I'm not into the small-bore stuff. I don't care whether or not she built a bridge to nowhere. I don't care if she sold a plane," he said.
"What I care about is what in God's name is she going to do — along with John McCain — about the thousands of people who don't have health care," those struggling with other economic problems, and the foreign policy challenges facing the country, Biden said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080910/ap_on_el_pr/biden_granholm;_ylt=Avk8YJaWG9jyMtx 7_ylxFRNh24cA

[Russellmcdoogle]

I've read many places that McCain's voting record is 90% has been with George Bush. I feel like that is pretty much common knowledge to most people that are interested. But I have looked and can't find how much Obama has voted with George Bush. I'd imagine he has some of the time. Can anyone tell me the percent or find something that discusses this?

[The Personist]

Biden on how he is going to prepare for the debate:

"She's going to try to make it as personal as she can. She's going to take a lot of straight lefts and jabs at me, she's going to try to get me to respond, she's going to try to get me to respond in a personal way," Biden said at a fundraiser Tuesday night in Chicago. "That's not my style. I'm not going to do it."
"I'm not into the small-bore stuff. I don't care whether or not she built a bridge to nowhere. I don't care if she sold a plane," he said.
"What I care about is what in God's name is she going to do — along with John McCain — about the thousands of people who don't have health care," those struggling with other economic problems, and the foreign policy challenges facing the country, Biden said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080910/ap_on_el_pr/biden_granholm;_ylt=Avk8YJaWG9jyMtx 7_ylxFRNh24cA

That's good. I hope he can stick by that. She has no policies with which to debate; it's ALL personal with her. I trust Biden, though.

[Jason Tate]

I've read many places that McCain's voting record is 90% has been with George Bush. I feel like that is pretty much common knowledge to most people that are interested. But I have looked and can't find how much Obama has voted with George Bush. I'd imagine he has some of the time. Can anyone tell me the percent or find something that discusses this?
40.

[The Personist]

40.

Source? Just curious.

[Jason Tate]

Source? Just curious.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002936207

[The Personist]

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002936207

Thank you. This race is like golf; 40 > 90.

[redalibi]

Have people been in a coma the last 8 years? McCain is simply going by the same play book as Bush when he was running. It amazes me people just forget and don't see the similarities.

[Jason Tate]

Have people been in a coma the last 8 years? McCain is simply going by the same play book as Bush when he was running. It amazes me people just forget and don't see the similarities.
It was pretty obvious when he hired those that ran the Bush campaign.

[Nametekken]

Have people been in a coma the last 8 years? McCain is simply going by the same play book as Bush when he was running. It amazes me people just forget and don't see the similarities.


alot of the people were pretty young when bush was first elected.

[Jason Tate]

Death Cab for Cutie (http://www.absolutepunk.net/deathcabforcutie) will perform (http://www.nme.com/news/nme/39633) on the college campus that registers the most voters between now and November. More information here (http://profile.myspace.com/Modules/Applications/Pages/Canvas.aspx?appId=111315).

[Adeniz19]

alot of the people were pretty young when bush was first elected.
maybe on this website, but not the general public.

[Adeniz19]

is part 3 of the obama/o'reilly interview on the internet yet?

[Jason Tate]

Conservative talk radio hosts have recently seized on comments Sen. Barack Obama made during a September 7 appearance on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos in order to suggest that the comments prove Obama is really a Muslim, not a Christian.

On This Week, Obama discussed, in host George Stephanopoulos' words, Republicans who have "suggested" he had "Muslim connections" and claimed that such suggestions are "promulgated on Fox News, let's say, and Republican commentators, who are closely allied" with Sen. John McCain's campaign. After Stephanopoulos asserted that McCain "said that's wrong" to question Obama's faith, Obama replied: "[Y]ou're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith." Stephanopoulos interjected, "Your Christian faith," to which Obama replied: "My Christian faith. Well, what I'm saying is he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign, upper echelons have not either. What I think is fair to say is that coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith, something which I find deeply offensive. And that has been going on for a pretty long time."

Following Obama's appearance on This Week, numerous conservative talk-radio hosts have selectively highlighted Obama's assertion, which he immediately clarified, that "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith" to revive rumors that he is a Muslim. Moreover, most hosts did not air Obama's clarification: that "what I'm saying is he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim." For instance:
Chris Baker: On the September 8 broadcast of his Minneapolis radio show, Chris Baker claimed that Obama's comment was "obviously a Freudian slip" and stated, "He confessed. It's over." Baker later referenced comments he made earlier in the show and said, "I don't care" if Obama is Muslim, and, "f he is, then why couldn't he just admit it?" Baker also asserted, "There are some questions about it. I mean, look, you know, he was -- lived in Indonesia, went to one of those madrass-deals, whatever, OK? You got pictures of him in the costume." He also claimed that when Obama is asked about his purported connections to Islam, "He'll say no, but he doesn't explain anything. Well, wait a minute. Didn't you go to that madrassa thing there in Indonesia?" As Media Matters for America has previously (http://mediamatters.org/items/200801100003) documented (http://mediamatters.org/items/200707300002?f=s_search), allegations that Obama attended a "madrassa" have been disproved by CNN (http://mediamatters.org/rd?http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html), the Associated Press (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.signonsandie go.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F20070124 -1317-obama-2008.html), and the [I]Chicago Tribune (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribu ne.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fchi-0703250340mar25%2C1%2C4542399.story %3Fctrack%3D1%26cset%3Dtrue). Baker also repeatedly played a truncated portion of Obama's This Week appearance in which he omitted Obama's explanatory comment: "Well, what I'm saying is he [McCain] hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim." He aired only the following portion of Obama's exchange with Stephanopoulos: OBAMA: What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith, and you're absolutely right that that has not come --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your Christian faith.
OBAMA: My Christian faith.
Further, responding to Obama's assertion that "coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith," Baker claimed that "the only people that ever bring this up is him." In fact, Media (http://mediamatters.org/items/200807220009?f=s_search) Matters (http://mediamatters.org/items/200807140009?f=s_search) has repeatedly (http://mediamatters.org/items/200805080002?f=s_search) noted (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806180008?f=s_search) that media figures and politicians have repeatedly suggested that Obama was not a Christian, but, in fact, a Muslim.

Michael Savage: On the September 8 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage aired a similarly truncated clip and stated of Obama's This Week remarks: "Obama has admitted he's a Muslim." Savage described Obama as a "Muslim stealth candidate" and stated: "I have nothing against moderate Muslims. ... The question is, why is he covering up his Muslim faith? Is he, in fact, a member of the moderate Muslim wing of the Muslim religion? I would hope so." Later, he said, "The question is, though, how did Muslim Obama get this far? How did a Muslim stealth candidate manage to become the anointed candidate of one of the two major parties in the Unites States of America?" Savage also said that "if you listen to that clip, George Step-on-all-of-us, a hack for Bill Clinton, immediately says to him, 'You mean your Christian faith?' He didn't even realize he had slipped the tongue -- he was telling you what he was thinking." Savage vowed to "play the clip of this Mohammedan slip again and again and again until America realizes that it is too dangerous to vote for Barack Hussein Obama." Later in the show, he also claimed that "we have a unknown factor, who is a Muslim and a Christian, and we do not know where his true loyalties lie. There's no question we don't know where Hussein's loyalties lie."

Quinn & Rose: On the September 8 broadcast of The War Room with Quinn & Rose, co-host Jim Quinn repeatedly highlighted Obama's "my Muslim faith" remark and stated: "[W]hy is he trying to cover this up? Reverend Wright was a Muslim. He was part of the Nation of Islam. And this guy here has got long connections back to Louis Farrakhan. This whole notion that we're all slurring him by suggesting that he might be -- why is being Muslim a slur?" Co-host Rose Tennent went on to read from an article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.newsmax.com %2F%3FZ64R.id3Wi4A7rM97wZwD3RZDxykx JUAZ) published on the conservative news website Newsmax.com that claimed, in Tennent's words, "Well, this guy Amir ... he's an Iranian-born head of Radio Israel's Persian-language service. And he said Iranian leadership likes Obama mainly because he's Muslim. And then he goes on to talk about his name. His first name, Barack, comes from al-Buraq, which is the name of a horse that Muslims believe Muhammad rode on his way to paradise. And his middle name, Hussein, is also a Muslim name. And he was born in a Muslim family." Quinn responded by saying: "How come everybody in the world knows he's a Muslim but us?"
KSFO: On the September 8 broadcast of San Francisco radio station KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Program, guest host Brian Sussman aired a portion of Obama's This Week appearance, including Obama's comment that "what I'm saying is that he [McCain] hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim," and commented: "[T]here's a part of me that says, 'Hmm. Was that really a slip?' When he says 'my Muslim faith,' was that really a slip? I don't know. I'm looking at all the evidence, and I've got news for you. If I were on a jury trying to convict this guy of his Christian faith, I'd have a hard problem with all the evidence out there suggesting that there may be something to a Muslim faith. It's just me." Co-host Tom Benner, referred to on-air as "Officer Vic," also said of Obama's comment: "You can also break it down into that old thing: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. You know?" After the This Week clip, Sussman said, "OK, walks like a duck," to which Benner replied, "Quacks like a duck." Sussman responded: "Poops like a duck." Also on the broadcast, Sussman said, "So when you have Muammar Qaddafi coming out on state TV saying, "Barack, he's a Muslim. He's an African. Oh, yes, he's an American national, but he was schooled in Indonesia, in an Islamic school. And he's going to bring change to America." I'm telling you, I don't want that kind of guy to be my president. I don't want that guy to even be in my Senate. That guy is suspect." In fact, according to the BBC, far from "endorsing" Obama in the June 11 speech Sussman was discussing, Qaddafi repeatedly attacked Obama for his policies regarding Israel and the Middle East. According to a June 12 BBC article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2 F2%2Fhi%2Fmiddle_east%2F7450000.stm ), Qaddafi said of Obama, "The statements of our Kenyan brother of American nationality Obama on Jerusalem ... show that he either ignores international politics and did not study the Middle East conflict or that it is a campaign lie. ... We fear that Obama will feel that, because he is black with an inferiority complex, this will make him behave worse than the whites."

G. Gordon Liddy: On the September 8 broadcast of his syndicated radio show, G. Gordon Liddy aired an audio clip of Middle Eastern-sounding music and said, "[Y]ou're listening to our secret taping of a Obama family meeting, and we're -- just kidding." Liddy then aired a truncated version of Obama's This Week appearance, in which he omitted Obama's full explanation of his remarks: OBAMA: Let's not play games. What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith, and you're absolutely right that that has not come --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your Christian faith.
OBAMA: My Christian faith.
Liddy followed by saying, "Whoops." Later in the broadcast, during an interview with Floyd Brown -- author of Obama Unmasked and creator of the infamous Willie Horton ad (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2FAL LPOLITICS%2F1996%2Fcandidates%2Fad. archive%2F), which targeted 1988 Democratic presidential candidate Michael Dukakis -- Liddy asserted that Obama's comment was a "slip of the tongue, if you will" and a "Freudian slip." Liddy has previously suggested that Obama is a Muslim on his show, as Media Matters has noted. On July 14, he said that by publishing a controversial (http://mediamatters.org/items/200807140009) cover depicting Obama in Muslim dress, "The New Yorker finally got it right."

[catscradle]

that's pretty ridiculous, but i'm pretty sure it's irrelevant since most of the people listening to those shows probably weren't going to vote for obama any way. It's still disgusting how far these guys will push people into believing a blatant fabrication. It's pretty tasteless imo.

[Adeniz19]

KX0s2b8NEDM

[NonOperational]

lol...Biden has to start learning to not think as he speaks.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/09/10/joe-biden-sit-happens/

when i watched meet the press last sunday, every answer started with some rambling, then when he figured out what he wanted to say he cuts himself off mid sentence and goes, "look.."


he and palin need some more debate practice.

[Machu505]

O'Reilly got pwned

[open mind]

Conservative talk radio hosts have recently seized on comments Sen. Barack Obama made during a September 7 appearance on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos in order to suggest that the comments prove Obama is really a Muslim, not a Christian.

On This Week, Obama discussed, in host George Stephanopoulos' words, Republicans who have "suggested" he had "Muslim connections" and claimed that such suggestions are "promulgated on Fox News, let's say, and Republican commentators, who are closely allied" with Sen. John McCain's campaign. After Stephanopoulos asserted that McCain "said that's wrong" to question Obama's faith, Obama replied: "[Y]ou're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith." Stephanopoulos interjected, "Your Christian faith," to which Obama replied: "My Christian faith. Well, what I'm saying is he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign, upper echelons have not either. What I think is fair to say is that coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith, something which I find deeply offensive. And that has been going on for a pretty long time."

Following Obama's appearance on This Week, numerous conservative talk-radio hosts have selectively highlighted Obama's assertion, which he immediately clarified, that "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith" to revive rumors that he is a Muslim. Moreover, most hosts did not air Obama's clarification: that "what I'm saying is he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim." For instance:
Chris Baker: On the September 8 broadcast of his Minneapolis radio show, Chris Baker claimed that Obama's comment was "obviously a Freudian slip" and stated, "He confessed. It's over." Baker later referenced comments he made earlier in the show and said, "I don't care" if Obama is Muslim, and, "f he is, then why couldn't he just admit it?" Baker also asserted, "There are some questions about it. I mean, look, you know, he was -- lived in Indonesia, went to one of those madrass-deals, whatever, OK? You got pictures of him in the costume." He also claimed that when Obama is asked about his purported connections to Islam, "He'll say no, but he doesn't explain anything. Well, wait a minute. Didn't you go to that madrassa thing there in Indonesia?" As Media Matters for America has previously (http://mediamatters.org/items/200801100003) documented (http://mediamatters.org/items/200707300002?f=s_search), allegations that Obama attended a "madrassa" have been disproved by CNN (http://mediamatters.org/rd?http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html), the Associated Press (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.signonsandie go.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F20070124 -1317-obama-2008.html), and the [I]Chicago Tribune (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribu ne.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fchi-0703250340mar25%2C1%2C4542399.story %3Fctrack%3D1%26cset%3Dtrue). Baker also repeatedly played a truncated portion of Obama's This Week appearance in which he omitted Obama's explanatory comment: "Well, what I'm saying is he [McCain] hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim." He aired only the following portion of Obama's exchange with Stephanopoulos: OBAMA: What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith, and you're absolutely right that that has not come --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your Christian faith.
OBAMA: My Christian faith.
Further, responding to Obama's assertion that "coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith," Baker claimed that "the only people that ever bring this up is him." In fact, Media (http://mediamatters.org/items/200807220009?f=s_search) Matters (http://mediamatters.org/items/200807140009?f=s_search) has repeatedly (http://mediamatters.org/items/200805080002?f=s_search) noted (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806180008?f=s_search) that media figures and politicians have repeatedly suggested that Obama was not a Christian, but, in fact, a Muslim.

Michael Savage: On the September 8 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage aired a similarly truncated clip and stated of Obama's This Week remarks: "Obama has admitted he's a Muslim." Savage described Obama as a "Muslim stealth candidate" and stated: "I have nothing against moderate Muslims. ... The question is, why is he covering up his Muslim faith? Is he, in fact, a member of the moderate Muslim wing of the Muslim religion? I would hope so." Later, he said, "The question is, though, how did Muslim Obama get this far? How did a Muslim stealth candidate manage to become the anointed candidate of one of the two major parties in the Unites States of America?" Savage also said that "if you listen to that clip, George Step-on-all-of-us, a hack for Bill Clinton, immediately says to him, 'You mean your Christian faith?' He didn't even realize he had slipped the tongue -- he was telling you what he was thinking." Savage vowed to "play the clip of this Mohammedan slip again and again and again until America realizes that it is too dangerous to vote for Barack Hussein Obama." Later in the show, he also claimed that "we have a unknown factor, who is a Muslim and a Christian, and we do not know where his true loyalties lie. There's no question we don't know where Hussein's loyalties lie."

Quinn & Rose: On the September 8 broadcast of The War Room with Quinn & Rose, co-host Jim Quinn repeatedly highlighted Obama's "my Muslim faith" remark and stated: "[W]hy is he trying to cover this up? Reverend Wright was a Muslim. He was part of the Nation of Islam. And this guy here has got long connections back to Louis Farrakhan. This whole notion that we're all slurring him by suggesting that he might be -- why is being Muslim a slur?" Co-host Rose Tennent went on to read from an article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.newsmax.com %2F%3FZ64R.id3Wi4A7rM97wZwD3RZDxykx JUAZ) published on the conservative news website Newsmax.com that claimed, in Tennent's words, "Well, this guy Amir ... he's an Iranian-born head of Radio Israel's Persian-language service. And he said Iranian leadership likes Obama mainly because he's Muslim. And then he goes on to talk about his name. His first name, Barack, comes from al-Buraq, which is the name of a horse that Muslims believe Muhammad rode on his way to paradise. And his middle name, Hussein, is also a Muslim name. And he was born in a Muslim family." Quinn responded by saying: "How come everybody in the world knows he's a Muslim but us?"
KSFO: On the September 8 broadcast of San Francisco radio station KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Program, guest host Brian Sussman aired a portion of Obama's This Week appearance, including Obama's comment that "what I'm saying is that he [McCain] hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim," and commented: "[T]here's a part of me that says, 'Hmm. Was that really a slip?' When he says 'my Muslim faith,' was that really a slip? I don't know. I'm looking at all the evidence, and I've got news for you. If I were on a jury trying to convict this guy of his Christian faith, I'd have a hard problem with all the evidence out there suggesting that there may be something to a Muslim faith. It's just me." Co-host Tom Benner, referred to on-air as "Officer Vic," also said of Obama's comment: "You can also break it down into that old thing: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. You know?" After the This Week clip, Sussman said, "OK, walks like a duck," to which Benner replied, "Quacks like a duck." Sussman responded: "Poops like a duck." Also on the broadcast, Sussman said, "So when you have Muammar Qaddafi coming out on state TV saying, "Barack, he's a Muslim. He's an African. Oh, yes, he's an American national, but he was schooled in Indonesia, in an Islamic school. And he's going to bring change to America." I'm telling you, I don't want that kind of guy to be my president. I don't want that guy to even be in my Senate. That guy is suspect." In fact, according to the BBC, far from "endorsing" Obama in the June 11 speech Sussman was discussing, Qaddafi repeatedly attacked Obama for his policies regarding Israel and the Middle East. According to a June 12 BBC article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2 F2%2Fhi%2Fmiddle_east%2F7450000.stm ), Qaddafi said of Obama, "The statements of our Kenyan brother of American nationality Obama on Jerusalem ... show that he either ignores international politics and did not study the Middle East conflict or that it is a campaign lie. ... We fear that Obama will feel that, because he is black with an inferiority complex, this will make him behave worse than the whites."

G. Gordon Liddy: On the September 8 broadcast of his syndicated radio show, G. Gordon Liddy aired an audio clip of Middle Eastern-sounding music and said, "[Y]ou're listening to our secret taping of a Obama family meeting, and we're -- just kidding." Liddy then aired a truncated version of Obama's This Week appearance, in which he omitted Obama's full explanation of his remarks: OBAMA: Let's not play games. What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith, and you're absolutely right that that has not come --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your Christian faith.
OBAMA: My Christian faith.
Liddy followed by saying, "Whoops." Later in the broadcast, during an interview with Floyd Brown -- author of Obama Unmasked and creator of the infamous Willie Horton ad (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2FAL LPOLITICS%2F1996%2Fcandidates%2Fad. archive%2F), which targeted 1988 Democratic presidential candidate Michael Dukakis -- Liddy asserted that Obama's comment was a "slip of the tongue, if you will" and a "Freudian slip." Liddy has previously suggested that Obama is a Muslim on his show, as Media Matters has noted. On July 14, he said that by publishing a controversial (http://mediamatters.org/items/200807140009) cover depicting Obama in Muslim dress, "The New Yorker finally got it right."


it's totally fucking ridiculous what these shitheads are doing....and why the hell would it be so bad if he was a muslim anyways?
the whole issue speaks of deep seated ethno-centrism, and small mindedness, if not flat out racism.

[Jason Tate]

On the September 10 broadcast of KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, a caller suggested that Sen. Barack Obama's remark (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809090026?f=h_top) that "you can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" was directed (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100007?f=h_top) at Gov. Sarah Palin and said: "[i]t's a little indicative of a Muslim attitude towards women that's creeping up, you know, and he just can't help but say it, how he feels." Guest host Brian Sussman responded: "Well, there's no question that Muslims, at least the religious ones, look at women as second-class citizens. That was just a low blow. He should not have made the remark. I don't know if it was his father's genetic DNA welling up inside of him or not, but I'll tell you something: It was stupid. The question is, did he know what he was saying?"

Additionally, earlier in the broadcast, Sussman referenced the widely circulated photograph (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Felections.foxnew s.com%2F2008%2F02%2F25%2Fphoto-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source%2F) of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing, saying: "I remember the Barack turban, when he was dressed up in his little bin Laden outfit. You know, because his family -- it was a family outfit. His family's Somali." In fact, Obama's father was from Kenya (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F08 %2F29%2FAR2008082900636.html), not Somalia. Sussman went on to repeat the falsehood (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806260002?f=s_search) that Obama's family is Arab, asserting: "His family's actually Arab. They're not sub-Saharan Africans. They're Arab Africans. That's why we're so suspect of this guy."

[Adeniz19]

On the September 10 broadcast of KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, a caller suggested that Sen. Barack Obama's remark (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809090026?f=h_top) that "you can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" was directed (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100007?f=h_top) at Gov. Sarah Palin and said: "[I]t's a little indicative of a Muslim attitude towards women that's creeping up, you know, and he just can't help but say it, how he feels." Guest host Brian Sussman responded: "Well, there's no question that Muslims, at least the religious ones, look at women as second-class citizens. That was just a low blow. He should not have made the remark. I don't know if it was his father's genetic DNA welling up inside of him or not, but I'll tell you something: It was stupid. The question is, did he know what he was saying?"

Additionally, earlier in the broadcast, Sussman referenced the widely circulated photograph (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Felections.foxnew s.com%2F2008%2F02%2F25%2Fphoto-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source%2F) of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing, saying: "I remember the Barack turban, when he was dressed up in his little bin Laden outfit. You know, because his family -- it was a family outfit. His family's Somali." In fact, Obama's father was from Kenya (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F08 %2F29%2FAR2008082900636.html), not Somalia. Sussman went on to repeat the falsehood (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806260002?f=s_search) that Obama's family is Arab, asserting: "His family's actually Arab. They're not sub-Saharan Africans. They're Arab Africans. That's why we're so suspect of this guy."
wow wow wow. shit like this actually makes me feel sick

[GiggsOho]

If Obama loses this election, I might move to rural Kentucky and become a Muslim. Just to fuck with people.

[open mind]

On the September 10 broadcast of KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, a caller suggested that Sen. Barack Obama's remark (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809090026?f=h_top) that "you can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" was directed (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100007?f=h_top) at Gov. Sarah Palin and said: "[i]t's a little indicative of a Muslim attitude towards women that's creeping up, you know, and he just can't help but say it, how he feels." Guest host Brian Sussman responded: "Well, there's no question that Muslims, at least the religious ones, look at women as second-class citizens. That was just a low blow. He should not have made the remark. I don't know if it was his father's genetic DNA welling up inside of him or not, but I'll tell you something: It was stupid. The question is, did he know what he was saying?"

Additionally, earlier in the broadcast, Sussman referenced the widely circulated photograph (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Felections.foxnew s.com%2F2008%2F02%2F25%2Fphoto-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source%2F) of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing, saying: "I remember the Barack turban, when he was dressed up in his little bin Laden outfit. You know, because his family -- it was a family outfit. His family's Somali." In fact, Obama's father was from Kenya (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F08 %2F29%2FAR2008082900636.html), not Somalia. Sussman went on to repeat the falsehood (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806260002?f=s_search) that Obama's family is Arab, asserting: "His family's actually Arab. They're not sub-Saharan Africans. They're Arab Africans. That's why we're so suspect of this guy."

i can't believe that shit like this is allowed to be broadcasted....people should lose jobs over this....every civil rights group should be all over this because there's no way in hell you could get away with saying shit like "father's genetic dna welling up inside him" concerning any other ethnicity/culture.

[Adeniz19]

the lipstick on a pig thing is so taken out of context. what about the fish in a new paper remark? is he making fun of mccains age? haha

[CloseToShore]

On the September 10 broadcast of KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, a caller suggested that Sen. Barack Obama's remark (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809090026?f=h_top) that "you can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" was directed (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100007?f=h_top) at Gov. Sarah Palin and said: "[i]t's a little indicative of a Muslim attitude towards women that's creeping up, you know, and he just can't help but say it, how he feels." Guest host Brian Sussman responded: "Well, there's no question that Muslims, at least the religious ones, look at women as second-class citizens. That was just a low blow. He should not have made the remark. I don't know if it was his father's genetic DNA welling up inside of him or not, but I'll tell you something: It was stupid. The question is, did he know what he was saying?"

Additionally, earlier in the broadcast, Sussman referenced the widely circulated photograph (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Felections.foxnew s.com%2F2008%2F02%2F25%2Fphoto-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source%2F) of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing, saying: "I remember the Barack turban, when he was dressed up in his little bin Laden outfit. You know, because his family -- it was a family outfit. His family's Somali." In fact, Obama's father was from Kenya (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F08 %2F29%2FAR2008082900636.html), not Somalia. Sussman went on to repeat the falsehood (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806260002?f=s_search) that Obama's family is Arab, asserting: "His family's actually Arab. They're not sub-Saharan Africans. They're Arab Africans. That's why we're so suspect of this guy."

Well what do you expect from a conservative talk show host on a conservative radio station. Seriously, do people NOT have common sense or brains anymore???

[open mind]

Well what do you expect from a conservative talk show host on a conservative radio station. Seriously, do people NOT have common sense or brains anymore???

this stuff is even lower then the usual low they normally operate at.

[The Personist]

On the September 10 broadcast of KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, a caller suggested that Sen. Barack Obama's remark (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809090026?f=h_top) that "you can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" was directed (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100007?f=h_top) at Gov. Sarah Palin and said: "[I]t's a little indicative of a Muslim attitude towards women that's creeping up, you know, and he just can't help but say it, how he feels." Guest host Brian Sussman responded: "Well, there's no question that Muslims, at least the religious ones, look at women as second-class citizens. That was just a low blow. He should not have made the remark. I don't know if it was his father's genetic DNA welling up inside of him or not, but I'll tell you something: It was stupid. The question is, did he know what he was saying?"

Additionally, earlier in the broadcast, Sussman referenced the widely circulated photograph (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Felections.foxnew s.com%2F2008%2F02%2F25%2Fphoto-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source%2F) of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing, saying: "I remember the Barack turban, when he was dressed up in his little bin Laden outfit. You know, because his family -- it was a family outfit. His family's Somali." In fact, Obama's father was from Kenya (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F08 %2F29%2FAR2008082900636.html), not Somalia. Sussman went on to repeat the falsehood (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806260002?f=s_search) that Obama's family is Arab, asserting: "His family's actually Arab. They're not sub-Saharan Africans. They're Arab Africans. That's why we're so suspect of this guy."

What's really awful is that this stuff is what the GOP uses to give itself a presumptive moral high ground, when in actuality this should make any educated person--conservative or liberal--cringe. It's vile, it's disgusting, and I do not want even an echo of this kind of thinking leading my country and representing my country to the rest of the world.

[Mens]

obama sounds like osama....... strange

[Mens]

i heard obama is a muslim.

[open mind]

i heard obama is a muslim.

i used to live in santa rosa (late 80's) and people in the area were at least moderately intelligent back then, guess that's changed though.

[Mens]

ugh this thread is so one sided

[catscradle]

i heard obama is a muslim.

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/5529/0/STFU_and_GTFO.ashx
get your dirty troll ass out of her

[open mind]

ugh this thread is so one sided

well then bring something of substance to the debate and make some relevant and intelligent points since it bothers you so much.

[Mens]

dude... im joking.

[Mens]

lets talk about thomas jefferson

[CrenshawPunch]

well then bring something of substance to the debate and make some relevant and intelligent points since it bothers you so much.


i think it is relevant.

[open mind]

i think it is relevant.

how is it relevant?

[CrenshawPunch]

how is it relevant?

This thread is about Obama. There is some substance to this claim. It deals with an important issue. I think that makes it relevant.

[Machu505]

This thread is about Obama. There is some substance to this claim. It deals with an important issue. I think that makes it relevant.

His name and religion are are important issues?

[CrenshawPunch]

His name and religion are are important issues?

His beliefs are. His name is not. I'm not quite sure where you got that from.

[open mind]

This thread is about Obama. There is some substance to this claim. It deals with an important issue. I think that makes it relevant.

there is zero substance to this claim because it's been thoroughly debunked.
even if it were true what real importance is it what faith the man has anyways?

[open mind]

His beliefs are. His name is not. I'm not quite sure where you got that from.

how are his beliefs going to affect his ability to govern?

[CrenshawPunch]

there is zero substance to this claim because it's been thoroughly debunked.
even if it were true what real importance is it what faith the man has anyways?

So they say.

Is that even a real question?

[Jason Tate]

This thread is about Obama. There is some substance to this claim. It deals with an important issue. I think that makes it relevant.
Are you kidding me? There's substance to the claim? Jesus Christ.

[CTMarshall]

how are his beliefs going to affect his ability to govern?

I'm voting for Obama, but I also live in the South so I know how ignorant some people can be. Faith is what most people down here care about. It's how they choose who they vote for. Pretty sure that's how it is in all of the Bible Belt. So his faith may not affect his ability to govern, but it could possibly influence if he gets elected or not.

[open mind]

So they say.

Is that even a real question?

so they say? if he's really a muslim why is it important that he attended a christian church at which jeremiah wright was the pastor for so long?

yes it's a real question, how about a real answer?

[CrenshawPunch]

Are you kidding me? There's substance to the claim? Jesus Christ.


Whoa, sorry. I didn't say it was true. I have just read some articles which pointed out an upbringing with the muslim faith. I was more responding to the fact that that guy was jumped on so quickly for what he said.

[open mind]

I'm voting for Obama, but I also live in the South so I know how ignorant some people can be. Faith is what most people down here care about. It's how they choose who they vote for. Pretty sure that's how it is in all of the Bible Belt. So his faith may not affect his ability to govern, but it could possibly influence if he gets elected or not.

so because people are ignorant it's a relevant issue?
there's no logic in that.

[CrenshawPunch]

so they say? if he's really a muslim why is it important that he attended a christian church at which jeremiah wright was the pastor?

yes it's a real question, how about a real answer?


Your beliefs are going to directly affect how you act, and what you say. For a politician who triumphs his faith, whatever that may be, it is going to have an influence over certain policies. Not that difficult to see.

[Jason Tate]

Whoa, sorry. I didn't say it was true. I have just read some articles which pointed out an upbringing with the muslim faith. I was more responding to the fact that that guy was jumped on so quickly for what he said.
Still makes the claims absolutely untrue and have ABSOLUTELY ZERO SUBSTANCE.

[open mind]

Whoa, sorry. I didn't say it was true. I have just read some articles which pointed out an upbringing with the muslim faith. I was more responding to the fact that that guy was jumped on so quickly for what he said.

he was jumped on for good reasons.

[CrenshawPunch]

Still makes the claims absolutely untrue and have ABSOLUTELY ZERO SUBSTANCE.

Fair enough. Christ.

[Jason Tate]

Your beliefs are going to directly affect how you act, and what you say. For a politician who triumphs his faith, whatever that may be, it is going to have an influence over certain policies. Not that difficult to see.
Actually, Obama (and most democrats) run on the exact opposite premise: their faith does not determine their policies. They don't suppose a moral superiority. And that's why many times the policies are in direct contradiction to their "faith."

[open mind]

Your beliefs are going to directly affect how you act, and what you say. For a politician who triumphs his faith, whatever that may be, it is going to have an influence over certain policies. Not that difficult to see.

that would be true if obama was all about injecting his faith into his politics, but he isn't.

[Jason Tate]

During the September 8 edition (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Ftranscripts.cnn. com%2FTRANSCRIPTS%2F0809%2F08%2Fec. 01.html) of CNN Election Center, correspondent Tom Foreman endorsed as "right" Sen. John McCain's false assertion that Sen. Barack Obama has flip-flopped on whether to "cut defense spending," and Foreman added another falsehood of his own, suggesting that Obama has only recently begun to advocate "increasing the size" of the military. Specifically, Foreman falsely claimed that McCain was "getting Barack Obama's record right" when McCain claimed that "during the primary," Obama told the group Caucus4Priorities in an October 2007 video "that he would cut defense spending by tens of billions of dollars"; Foreman later added: "Obama does not say anything on that video about plans which are on his website now for increasing the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers, the Marines by 27,000." In fact, Obama told (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com% 2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7o84PE871BE) Caucus4Priorities that he would cut "tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending," not overall defense spending, and in 2007 and early 2008, Obama repeatedly said (http://mediamatters.org/items/200808040005#20080910) that he would increase the size of the military.

[The Personist]

KX0s2b8NEDM

Obama is going to come out ahead in debates if he comports himself half as well as he did in this. He's immensely calm under pressure, too; I like that in a leader in dangerous times.

[Jason Tate]

Fair enough. Christ.
I'm just fucking sick of people perpetuating lies.

[GiggsOho]

Are the president avatars some smart ass way to mock those with Obama in their avatars?

[catscradle]

Whoa, sorry. I didn't say it was true. I have just read some articles which pointed out an upbringing with the muslim faith. I was more responding to the fact that that guy was jumped on so quickly for what he said.

the guy was jumped on so quickly bc he was clearly trolling this thread.

it's that simple.

the issue of obama's religion has been beaten to death and obama has clearly stated his religious beliefs.

[CrenshawPunch]

he was jumped on for good reasons.

No, he wasn't. you could have at least provided him with some insight the other way, instead of brining up this bullshit argument about beliefs not being relevant. Don't you think that would be a bit more effective?

[CrenshawPunch]

I'm just fucking sick of people perpetuating lies.

You aren't going to get any refuge from that in the Politics forum.

[CrenshawPunch]

Are the president avatars some smart ass way to mock those with Obama in their avatars?


No. I study history. I like George Washington. The election reminded me of this fact.

[Jason Tate]

No, he wasn't. you could have at least provided him with some insight the other way, instead of brining up this bullshit argument about beliefs not being relevant. Don't you think that would be a bit more effective?
Factcheck.org, Snopes.com, Fightthesmears.org -- the truth has been out and around the internet for about a year now, the idea that anyone, ANYONE, would continue to repeat these debunked claims is ridiculous. They deserve to be mocked - HEAVILY - for being fucking stupid.

[Jason Tate]

You aren't going to get any refuge from that in the Politics forum.
Yes you will - by calling them out on it.

[CTMarshall]

so because people are ignorant it's a relevant issue?
there's no logic in that.

There's plenty of logic in that. People aren't going to vote for Obama if they even think that he is Muslim. That's just how it works in the South (granted most people aren't voting for him down here anyway). It shouldn't be an issue in this election. I agree that we should focus on more important issues, but it doesn't work that way.

[GiggsOho]

No. I study history. I like George Washington. The election reminded me of this fact.

Word, cool. Never know when some smart ass from the general forum tries to be cool, that's the first place I saw you with. My apologies.

[open mind]

No, he wasn't. you could have at least provided him with some insight the other way, instead of brining up this bullshit argument about beliefs not being relevant. Don't you think that would be a bit more effective?

yes he was.
the entire issue is manufactured bullshit containing zero factual backing.....and it plays on the worst possible irrational emotions.
religious beliefs are not relevant to his ability to govern, and they would only effect his political stances if he mixed politics and religion....which he doesn't.

[open mind]

There's plenty of logic in that. People aren't going to vote for Obama if they even think that he is Muslim. That's just how it works in the South (granted most people aren't voting for him down here anyway). It shouldn't be an issue in this election. I agree that we should focus on more important issues, but it doesn't work that way.

poor logic doesn't become good logic just because people are illogical.

[CrenshawPunch]

Word, cool. Never know when some smart ass from the general forum tries to be cool, that's the first place I saw you with. My apologies.

It's all good.

[lauren<3s music]

I'm currently working on an article about the differences in the candidates health care policies; it is like night and day. If you ever anticipate being sick and vote for McCain, god help you.

[CTMarshall]

poor logic doesn't become good logic just because people are illogical.

Seriously, that's your response?

[The Personist]

I'm currently working on an article about the differences in the candidates health care policies; it is like night and day. If you ever anticipate being sick and vote for McCain, god help you.

This.

[open mind]

Seriously, that's your response?

seriously.

[catscradle]

so, did anybody see Chris Matthews slam the McCain camp on their portrayal of the lipstick comment tonight?

Talk about making the republicans look silly.

[loveisdead]

so, did anybody see Chris Matthews slam the McCain camp on their portrayal of the lipstick comment tonight?

Talk about making the republicans look silly.

What did he say? I've been in class all day (still am) and am curious. This is the second time I've heard about it.

[Jason Tate]

so, did anybody see Chris Matthews slam the McCain camp on their portrayal of the lipstick comment tonight?

Talk about making the republicans look silly.
Video?

WcZKCPJ1aLM

[Jason Tate]

I'm currently working on an article about the differences in the candidates health care policies; it is like night and day. If you ever anticipate being sick and vote for McCain, god help you.
Good source:

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/03/a-detailed-anal.html

[blindrider529]

so, did anybody see Chris Matthews slam the McCain camp on their portrayal of the lipstick comment tonight?

Talk about making the republicans look silly.
haha yeah. I commented on it in the McCain/Palin thread. I watched it at lunch and it was hilarious. I don't even know why Chris had guests on for that particular segment! It was awesome.

[catscradle]

Video?

WcZKCPJ1aLM

the segment before that was the epic one. but that one was good too.

[lauren<3s music]

This.
??

[GiggsOho]

Video?

WcZKCPJ1aLM


lol, god forbid people should use the term 'lipstick' now.

This woman is a fucking retard.

[lauren<3s music]

Good source:

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/03/a-detailed-anal.html
Thanks, I appreciate it. I have to check and see if I'm allowed to use any other sources other than official campaign materials [it's for continuing ed credit so they have all types of restrictions], but it looks really cool.

The scariest thing about McCain's plan to me, is the promotion of "access" via walk in retail clinics. That's just what this country needs. Yeesh.

Maybe i'll post the article pre submission. I'd really like people's opinions on content/bias since well, pretty obvious where I stand

[Jason Tate]

In a September 10 article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startribune. com%2Fpolitics%2Fnational%2Fpreside nt%2F28111569.html%3Fpage%3D1%26c%3 Dy) about Sen. Barack Obama's comment that "[Y]ou can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig," Associated Press reporter Nedra Pickler wrote that "lipstick" has become "a political buzzword, thanks to" Gov. Sarah Palin's "joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull," and suggested that therefore Palin's joke had something to do with Obama's reference to "lipstick on a pig." Yet Obama had previously used the expression in this campaign -- before Palin's reference to lipstick at the Republican National Convention -- as had former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-TN), a supporter of Sen. Hillary Clinton, and -- as Pickler noted in the same article -- McCain himself while criticizing Clinton's health-care proposal. Indeed, the expression, and similar ones, has been used by politicians for years. Despite numerous examples of politicians using the expression before Palin's September 3 convention speech, Pickler wrote: "What's the difference between the presidential campaign before and after the national political conventions? Lipstick." Pickler continued: "The colorful cosmetic has become a political buzzword, thanks to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull." Apparently based on this assumption of the novelty of "lipstick" in this campaign, Pickler went on to link Obama's "lipstick on a pig" statement to Palin's convention joke: What's the difference between the presidential campaign before and after the national political conventions? Lipstick. The colorful cosmetic has become a political buzzword, thanks to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull.
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience Tuesday that GOP presidential nominee John McCain says he'll change Washington, but he's just like President Bush.
"You can put lipstick on a pig," he said to an outbreak of laughter, shouts and raucous applause from his audience, clearly drawing a connection to Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still going to stink after eight years."
McCain's campaign called the comments "offensive and disgraceful" and said Obama owes Palin an apology. Obama's campaign said he wasn't referring to Palin and said the GOP camp was engaging in a "pathetic attempt to play the gender card." Obama's camp also noted that McCain once used the same phrase to describe Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan.
As Media Matters for America noted (http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100017?f=h_latest), Pickler provided no evidence for her assertion -- contradicted by other media outlets -- that the audience "clearly" drew a connection between Obama's and Palin's remarks.
The expression is in fact a common one. Indeed, along with reporter Jennifer Loven, Pickler herself reported in an October 9, 2004, AP article that then-Democratic vice-presidential nominee John Edwards used the same expression in reference to statements by President Bush: Edwards, campaigning Saturday in Detroit, accused the president of distorting the latest employment statistics to make it seem like millions of jobs had been created on his watch.
"They're going to try everything they know how to put lipstick on this pig, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig," Edwards said.
Although 1.8 million jobs have been added to business payrolls in the past year -- the figure Bush's claims are based on -- there are 821,000 fewer jobs now in the country than when Bush took office in January 2001.
"Come November, his time is going to be up and we're going to have a new president," Edwards said.
And Pickler reported (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2 FPolitics%2FWireStory%3Fid%3D497224 4%26page%3D1) on June 1, 2008: Tina Flournoy, who led Clinton's efforts to seat both states' delegations with full voting power, said she was disappointed by the outcome but knew the Clinton position had "no chance" of passing the committee.
"I understand the rules. ... I can tell you one thing that has driven these rules was being a party of inclusion," Flournoy said. "I wish my colleagues will vote differently."
Alice Huffman, a Clinton supporter on the committee, explained that the compromise giving delegates half votes was the next best thing to full seating.
"We will leave here more united than we came," she said.
Some audience members heckled her in response. "Lipstick on a pig!" one shouted.
Moreover, Pickler wrote in her September 10 article that "McCain once used the same phrase to describe Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan." Indeed, in an October 11, 2007, post, the Chicago Tribune Washington bureau blog, The Swamp, reported (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swamppolitic s.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fblog%2F20 07%2F10%2Fmccain_rolls_out_health_p lan_a.html): McCain criticized Democratic contenders for offering what he called costly universal health care proposals that require too much government regulation. While he said he had not studied Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton's health-care plan, he said it was "eerily reminiscent" of the failed plan she offered as first lady in the early 1990s.
"I think they put some lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig," he said of her proposal.
In addition, while discussing health care at a May 2 town hall meeting (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com% 2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUWb5lF8aVq0%26) in Denver, McCain again used the expression. He said: "All I can say is that, yes, in 1993, we rejected the then-Clinton universal health care proposal. It was rejected by the American people. I don't like to use this term, but the latest proposal I see is putting lipstick on a pig, as we used to -- as we used to say."
Also, CNN.com reported in a February 2, 2007, article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F20 07%2FPOLITICS%2F02%2F01%2Fus.iraq%2 Findex.html), that McCain used the phrase while discussing the debate over President Bush's strategy in Iraq: Another Bush supporter, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, said the Warner resolution would be a vote of no confidence in Gen. David Petraeus, the incoming commander of U.S. and allied troops in Iraq. And McCain, who has blasted the Bush administration's handling of the war, said his proposal is a sign the United States is willing to go "all in" in the now-unpopular conflict.
"It gets down to whether you support what is being done in this new strategy or you don't," McCain said. "You can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig, in my view."
According to a September 14, 2007, Washington Post column (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2007%2F09 %2F13%2FAR2007091301679.html) by Eugene Robinson, Obama used the expression in a phone interview the previous day: "I think that both General [David] Petraeus and Ambassador [Ryan] Crocker are capable people who have been given an impossible assignment," Sen. Barack Obama said yesterday in a telephone interview. "George Bush has given a mission to General Petraeus, and he has done his best to try to figure out how to put lipstick on a pig."
In addition to McCain, Obama, and Edwards, other political and media figures have made similar "lipstick" comments:
[B]Former Texas Gov. Ann Richards (D), reportedly (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com% 2F2006%2F09%2F14%2Fus%2Frichards_qu otes.html) referring to ineffective government programs: "You can put lipstick and earrings on a hog and call it Monique, but it's still a pig.''
Former Rep. Bob Schaffer (R-CO): " 'What they want is not change; it's just putting lipstick on a pig,' Schaffer told an estimated crowd of 4,500 people at the Broomfield Event Center." [Denver Post; 5/31/08 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denverpost.c om%2Fheadlines%2Fci_9440472)]
Then-Republican presidential candidate Fred Thompson: "He also took a swipe at Democrats when he was asked his plan for health care. 'You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig,' Thompson said. 'These health care plans that they're pushing, they're pigs.' " [AP; 1/15/08 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michaelmoore .com%2Fwords%2Flatestnews%2Findex.p hp%3Fid%3D10746)]
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH): " 'Right now our fundraising sucks. ... There's no other way to put it. ... There's no use putting lipstick on a pig.' " [National Journal's CongressDaily; 4/3/08]
Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA): "Barack Obama blames lobbyists. Hunger and environmental groups blame Democratic leaders. Sen. Chuck Grassley calls it 'smearing lipstick on a pig.' The federal farm bill passed by the Senate was a turkey delivered for the holidays. It won't get much better when it is recooked in conference committee when Congress reconvenes." [The Tribune of Ames, Iowa; 12/27/07 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.midiowanews. com%2Fsite%2Ftab1.cfm%3Fdept_id%3D5 54335%26newsid%3D19149704)]
Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX), on Democrats' changes to a State Children's Health Insurance Program bill: "Rep. Joe Barton of Texas last week compared the changes to 'putting lipstick on a pig. It may ... be a good pig. It may be a nice pig. It might be intended to be the right kind of pig ... ut it's still a pig.' " [CNN.com; 11/2/07 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F20 07%2FPOLITICS%2F11%2F01%2Fcongress. healthcare%2Findex.html)]
[B]American Conservative Union chairman David Keene, on a 2007 Senate immigration bill: " 'I don't doubt [Sen.] Jon [Kyl, (R-AZ)] has improved the bill, but you can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.' " [Washington Times; 6/27/07 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washtimes.co m%2Fnews%2F2007%2Fjun%2F27%2Fkyl-says32he-made32bush-bill32better%2F)]
Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO), on a 2007 Senate immigration bill: "Well, of course, most of what you have described is just -- you know, there's an old saying around here about putting lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. This is the lipstick for it." [CNN's Paula Zahn Now; 5/17/07 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Ftranscripts.cnn. com%2FTRANSCRIPTS%2F0705%2F17%2Fpzn .01.html)]
Syndicated political talk-show host John McLaughlin, on President Bush's appointment of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson: "Is this the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig?" [The McLaughlin Group; 6/02/06]
Conservative blogger Bill Crawford: "I never meant to give a comprehensive account of how things are going in Iraq. I'm not, as my grandmother used to say, 'trying to put lipstick on a pig.' " [National Review Online; 3/20/06 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalrevi ew.com%2Fcomment%2Fcrawford20060320 0824.asp)]
Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-IL), on 2007 appropriations for Navy and Marines Corps budget: "I think from my inside look, a lot of the problems have been overcome because there is a parallel Navy running, and it is outside the NMCI. I think everybody's laughing behind you. They all know that, and so the question is, how do we adapt and work with that rather than try to put lipstick on a pig?" [House Subcommittee on Military Quality of Life, Veterans Affairs and Related Agencies appropriations meeting; 3/08/06]
Former McCain aide Torie Clarke, on the title of her 2006 book, Lipstick on a Pig: Winning In the No-Spin Era by Someone Who Knows the Game (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.simonsays.co m%2Fcontent%2Fbook.cfm%3Ftab%3D1%26 pid%3D513552%26er%3D9780743282475) (Free Press): "Oh, it's a saying. It's a saying I've always used." [PBS' Charlie Rose; 2/24/06]
Vice President Dick Cheney on Sen. John Kerry's (D-MA) military plan: "As we like to say in Wyoming ... you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig." [speech at Hawaii Convention Center; 11/01/04 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.g ov%2Fnews%2Freleases%2F2004%2F11%2F 20041101-1.html); and speech at Hallowed Hills Conference Center in Ohio; 10/30/04 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.g ov%2Fnews%2Freleases%2F2004%2F10%2F 20041030-14.html) -- also noted by The Dallas Morning News' Trail Blazers blog (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Ftrailblazersblog .dallasnews.com%2Farchives%2F2008%2 F09%2Fturns-out-dick-cheney-knows-ab.html)]
Lynne Cheney on Kerry: "John Kerry tries to put a bunch of fancy, fancy talk -- tried to disguise that record, sort of like his fancy haircut, fancy manicure, tried to disguise the whole thing. ... But there is nothing you can do to really -- to really obscure that record. You can try, though. And in Wyoming, we've got a saying for what it is when you keep trying to make something that's not so good look good, we call it putting lipstick on a pig. ... Yes. ... And it doesn't work." [remarks at Embassy Suites Hotels in Coraopolis, Pennsylvania; 10/13/04 (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.g ov%2Fnews%2Freleases%2F2004%2F10%2F 20041014-5.html)]Additionally, in a June 18 piece (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fto days-stories%2Fcongress-speak-making-up-the-pig-2008-06-18.html), The Hill included the following quotes in its "Congress Speak: Making up the pig": "Let's not perfume the pig here. The Democrats have some seriously deep fissures that they are going to have to mend outside of any formal rules committee."
-- Republican pollster Kellyanne Conway, in a May 29 appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live."
[...]
"You can put lipstick on a pig, but guess what? It's still a pig."
-- Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), discussing in April 2004 a Bush administration proposal to eliminate overtime pay.
"You know the old saying about putting lipstick on a pig? Well, I smell bacon."
-- Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.) in a May 21 House floor speech on U.S. trade policy.
"Calling this surrender a 'withdrawal' or a 'redeployment' is like putting lipstick on a pig. No matter what you call it, it is still a pig."
-- Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) during an April 26 speech on the Senate floor about supplemental funding for the Iraq war.

[Jason Tate]

the segment before that was the epic one. but that one was good too.
Ah, I haven't seen that one - I could only find that video.

[saysmydoctor]

"I'm not a mind reader."

Then quit making fucking bullshit claims.

[lauren<3s music]

oh one other weird thing; i'm currently in springfield IL and you would think that this place would be littered in obama materials. No joke, I haven't seen one to date and 5 McCain bumper stickers. Makes me worry

[Jason Tate]

"I'm not a mind reader."

Then quit making fucking bullshit claims.
Hahaha, she directly changes what she said first to that ... the fact that THIS is what the news is focusing on is a win for McCain. It's a win because it's faux disgust and just bullshit talking. It's ignoring any real issue - and only helps McCain. It's fucking ridiculous.

[catscradle]

i just don't get it? it's a simple saying that calls out political spin. Obama was simply calling out the spin machine that we know as the McCain/Palin ticket as they try to present themselves as change when they're simply presenting more of the same policies. They're just trying to distract people from the issues bc they know that's the only way they can win, which is crazy as it's belittling the very things that matter most. How can they say they love america when they incessantly try to distract people from the things that matter in our country with petty politics?

[Jason Tate]

oh one other weird thing; i'm currently in springfield IL and you would think that this place would be littered in obama materials. No joke, I haven't seen one to date and 5 McCain bumper stickers. Makes me worry
He's winning (http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard) Illinois 57 to 36 percent. Hahah.

[Machu505]

oh one other weird thing; i'm currently in springfield IL and you would think that this place would be littered in obama materials. No joke, I haven't seen one to date and 5 McCain bumper stickers. Makes me worry

You shouldn't worry about it. I've seen 1 McCain sticker here and maybe 5 Obama stickers.

[Jason Tate]

i just don't get it? it's a simple saying that calls out political spin. Obama was simply calling out the spin machine that we know as the McCain/Palin ticket as they try to present themselves as change when they're simply presenting more of the same policies. They're just trying to distract people from the issues bc they know that's the only way they can win, which is crazy as it's belittling the very things that matter most. How can they say they love america when they incessantly try to distract people from the things that matter in our country with petty politics?
It's a campaign strategy put in place by Rove - and it's being duplicated because McCain hired a bunch of Bush strategists. People are stupid enough to believe this shit. That he was calling Palin a pig. They're dumb enough to believe it.

[eMart]

Additionally, earlier in the broadcast, Sussman referenced the widely circulated photograph (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Felections.foxnew s.com%2F2008%2F02%2F25%2Fphoto-showing-obama-in-somali-garb-circulated-by-clinton-campaign-source%2F) of Obama wearing traditional Somali clothing, saying: "I remember the Barack turban, when he was dressed up in his little bin Laden outfit. You know, because his family -- it was a family outfit. His family's Somali." In fact, Obama's father was from Kenya (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpo st.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F08 %2F29%2FAR2008082900636.html), not Somalia. Sussman went on to repeat the falsehood (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806260002?f=s_search) that Obama's family is Arab, asserting: "His family's actually Arab. They're not sub-Saharan Africans. They're Arab Africans. That's why we're so suspect of this guy."
OMFG George Bush, Vladimir Putin, and Hu Jintao are secret Vietnamese spies!!!!!!!!

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/72601786.jpg

[lauren<3s music]

He's winning (http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard) Illinois 57 to 36 percent. Hahah.

god bless chicago

You shouldn't worry about it. I've seen 1 McCain sticker here and maybe 5 Obama stickers.

whew

It's a campaign strategy put in place by Rove - and it's being duplicated because McCain hired a bunch of Bush strategists. People are stupid enough to believe this shit. That he was calling Palin a pig. They're dumb enough to believe it.


i have a colleague who's met Rove and she said he is one of the most frighteningly smart and strategic people she's ever met.

[catscradle]

It's a campaign strategy put in place by Rove - and it's being duplicated because McCain hired a bunch of Bush strategists. People are stupid enough to believe this shit. That he was calling Palin a pig. They're dumb enough to believe it.

It's truly disheartening, especially when an election matters as much as this one does. I'm not one to want ill fortune to fall upon another, but let me be the first to say no tears would be shed if Karl Rove met a brutal end. He truly is a sinister creature.

[eMart]

oh one other weird thing; i'm currently in springfield IL and you would think that this place would be littered in obama materials. No joke, I haven't seen one to date and 5 McCain bumper stickers. Makes me worry
That is a little weird especially since Obama supporters are the ones who actually like to show it. I've seen everything from regular Obama shirts, to designer shirts, and I even saw some guy with an Obama football jersey that looked like one the official players would wear. But maybe, like Jason pointed out, they already know they've got IL in the hole so they're just saving money/paper/etc.

[Jason Tate]

It's truly disheartening, especially when an election matters as much as this one does. I'm not one to want ill fortune to fall upon another, but let me be the first to say no tears would be shed if Karl Rove met a brutal end. He truly is a sinister creature.
The more you can fake outrage and scream and demand apologies - the better. You control the news cycle.

[open mind]

one thing about this whole pig thing that kinda bugs me is that historically it's just about always men who are referred to as pigs....so for me it's hard to assume he was talking about palin, but maybe that's just me being sexist.

[The Personist]

??

As in, "I agree with this." I'm just lazy. But you're spot on about the policies being so different.

[Adeniz19]

i'm getting so tired of this damn "lipstick" controversy. the news media is saying obama needs to get back on point, but how the fuck is he supposed to when you spend a good portion of your show discussing whether saying an old figure of speech how sexist undertones? jesus christ

[lauren<3s music]

As in, "I agree with this." I'm just lazy. But you're spot on about the policies being so different.
ahhhhhh.

in other news i'm practicing my presentation and i'm pretty sure whoever is next to me is beating his wife. maybe he's not a fan of listening to me talk about obama?

[The Personist]

ahhhhhh.

in other news i'm practicing my presentation and i'm pretty sure whoever is next to me is beating his wife. maybe he's not a fan of listening to me talk about obama?

OBAMA KILLZ T3H BABEEZ!

[lauren<3s music]

OBAMA KILLZ T3H BABEEZ!
no joke i'm kind of worried and don't know what to do. and its interrupting my speech

[GiggsOho]

no joke i'm kind of worried and don't know what to do. and its interrupting my speech

call the front desk.

[The Personist]

no joke i'm kind of worried and don't know what to do. and its interrupting my speech

If you let it get to you, he wins and thinks you know you're wrong. Hold your head high and give the speech. That's what Obama does; his O'Reilly interviews are rather inspiring. He doesn't take shit from that man and just stays calm from start to finish.

[lauren<3s music]

call the front desk.

thanks. p.s. be up - i'm picking your brain on this article and other things later

If you let it get to you, he wins and thinks you know you're wrong. Hold your head high and give the speech. That's what Obama does; his O'Reilly interviews are rather inspiring. He doesn't take shit from that man and just stays calm from start to finish.

ha

[saysmydoctor]

This is kicking my ass right now:

Write a one page paper about yourself, in terms of the three important ideas you have Appropriated from your culture and how you have incorporated (Replicated) those ideas into patterns of behavior that you repeat regularly (your way of life). Note the non-material and material aspects of culture that are inherent in these ideas and behaviors.

[Adeniz19]

now we have fucking CHUCK NORRIS talking about if what obama said about lipstick is wrong. that's it i'm done watching news for the day

[lauren<3s music]

now we have fucking CHUCK NORRIS talking about if what obama said about lipstick is wrong. that's it i'm done watching news for the day
oh please tell me where this is. please...

[saysmydoctor]

Chuck Norris endorsed Huckabee, bare that in mind when you dismiss everything that roundhouse kicking asshole ever says.

[Adeniz19]

oh please tell me where this is. please...
larry king live.

[CloseToShore]

Video?

WcZKCPJ1aLM
Hahaha! There's no reasoning with these McCain/Palin surrogates!!!!!

And they're sending people up to Alaska to investigate about her? Does she understand why? It's to research a candidate! What a double standard - the Republican party can do all they want to find out about someone, but if the Democratic party does it, then call in the fucking Army to hunt them down!

[lauren<3s music]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2qlhlb7.jpg

horrible, but made me laugh

[lauren<3s music]

larry king live.
oh god i will withdraw. that will annoy me not make me laugh

[ambulance]

4NP3cVXfTrU

Part 4

[lauren<3s music]

anxkrm9uEJk

:appl:

[Machu505]

Olbermann completely owned J-Mac tonight.

[GiggsOho]

Olbermann completely owned J-Mac tonight.

At least someone who is on the left has the balls to get a little angry at this mockery of a fucking election.

[CloseToShore]

OMFG George Bush, Vladimir Putin, and Hu Jintao are secret Vietnamese spies!!!!!!!!

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/72601786.jpg
I was going to say Harry Potter. hahahahahaha

[GiggsOho]

thanks. p.s. be up - i'm picking your brain on this article and other things later



ha

you got it - you know where to find me.

[GiggsOho]

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/09/10/mccain-finds-it-tough-without-palin/

After lunching with a roundtable of women at Philadelphia’s Down Home Diner, McCain shook hands with supporters and strode up to a podium to deliver a statement. But as he spoke, chants of “Obama, Obama, Obama” filled the room.

PHILA-FUCKIN-DELPHIA, FTFW!

[loveisdead]

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/09/10/mccain-finds-it-tough-without-palin/



PHILA-FUCKIN-DELPHIA, FTFW!

that's awesome.

[blindrider529]

Obama did REALLY well in the in the interview with O'Reilly.

Seriously. That was a fantastic if you ask me.

[CloseToShore]

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/09/10/mccain-finds-it-tough-without-palin/



PHILA-FUCKIN-DELPHIA, FTFW!
YES! Damn, I'm proud of my hometown!!!!

[ambulance]

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/09/10/mccain-finds-it-tough-without-palin/



PHILA-FUCKIN-DELPHIA, FTFW!

Is that what our country has become.
Obama’s supporters are all over the place rudely interupting events. It is a bad reflection on Obama and the new politics he promised.
It is just prove that Obama and his click should not get anywhere near any kind of power, if that is how they conduct themselves.
Where is the respect? You won’t see that kind of behaviour by McCain’s supporters.



:hitself:

[Jason Tate]

Olbermann completely owned J-Mac tonight.

Video?

[TK]

What's this lipstick thing about?

[sjb2k1]

:hitself:i can't even think of anything witty to say back to this.

[GiggsOho]

:hitself:


OBAMA SUPPORTERS HATE FREEDOM.

[open mind]

:hitself:

that's because mccain supporters can't bring themselves to go to an obama event in the first place.

if there's one thing republicans like to play this year for all it's worth it's the guilt by association card....some obama supporter interrupts mccain at a rally? it's gotta be because obama lacks character.....some dude in chicago that obama knows was a radical in the 60's? obama must be a radical.....the preacher at obama's church said something you don't like? obama definately did.

[GiggsOho]

that's because mccain supporters can't bring themselves to go to an obama event in the first place.

if there's one thing republicans like to play this year for all it's worth is the guilt by association card....some obama supporter interrupts mccain? it's gotta be because obama lacks character.....some dude in chicago that obama knows was a radical in the 60's? obama must be a radical.....the preacher at obama's church said something you don't like? obama definately did.

In all honestly, I want to go to a McCain/Palin rally and not even interrupt it. I just want to hold up a big sign with big black letters that says "LIAR" on it.

[fuller]

In all honestly, I want to go to a McCain/Palin rally and not even interrupt it. I just want to hold up a big sign with big black letters that says "LIAR" on it.

I doubt that would last very long

[open mind]

In all honestly, I want to go to a McCain/Palin rally and not even interrupt it. I just want to hold up a big sign with big black letters that says "LIAR" on it.

all politicians are liars so you might want to put some sort of qualifier on that sign.

[saysmydoctor]

In all honestly, I want to go to a McCain/Palin rally and not even interrupt it. I just want to hold up a big sign with big black letters that says "LIAR" on it.
This.

[GiggsOho]

I doubt that would last very long

Then I would start chanting, and probably get thrown out.

I wanted to go to the one in Fairfax, Va. this morning, but I don't get off work until 2 a.m., and reporters from my station would have been there. That would not have looked good.

[GiggsOho]

all politicians are liars so you might want to put some sort of qualifier on that sign.

use it like an APPLAUSE sign.

[open mind]

use it like an APPLAUSE sign.

ahh....i get it now, awesome idea, do it.

[wesgemm08]

Video?

I think it is this.

0pVJ4jgFpPg

[GiggsOho]

wtf is wrong with youtube all of a sudden.....? is it just me?

[DCfreak]

I think it is this.

I2Rzt_WzrPQ


I like Keith... but isn't this just a LITTLE BIT of a stretch? Most of the time when he goes on a roll he just makes himself sound that much better, but this time its a bit much.

[nfggc10]

I think it is this.

I2Rzt_WzrPQWow. All I can say is well done Keith. This is the kind of stuff that I'd like to see more often. The sad thing is that conservatives would only focus on his "anger" rather than the message. Then again that's the official theme of their party.

[nfggc10]

I like Keith... but isn't this just a LITTLE BIT of a stretch? Most of the time when he goes on a roll he just makes himself sound that much better, but this time its a bit much.I don't know about you but I take fear tactics very seriously thus making Keith's reaction completely reasonable. This won't end the strategy but someone standing up for what's right is worth applauding.

[Thriftstoresuit]

wtf is wrong with youtube all of a sudden.....? is it just me?

can you not watch videos.
because neither can I. if thats the problem youre talking about

[GiggsOho]

can you not watch videos.
because neither can I. if thats the problem youre talking about


yeah its completely fucked up....are you in Firefox 2.0?

[catscradle]

i'm using safari and its fugged up too. Just the video box with no video to load.

[open mind]

yeah its completely fucked up....are you in Firefox 2.0?

i use windows and they aren't working for me either.

[loveisdead]

Keith Olbermann is the fucking man. Holy shit. That was amazing.

[loveisdead]

i use windows and they aren't working for me either.

I couldn't get a number of videos to load, but I just got the Olbermann one to work just fine. Firefox crashed on me earlier, so I'm on Safari.

[GiggsOho]

Alright, then it isnt just me. Weird.

[fuller]

Preach Mr. Olbermann, Preach!

That was glorious

[nfggc10]

Obama will be on Letterman in a second.

[CloseToShore]

I think it is this.

0pVJ4jgFpPg

Wow. Scathing and very well deserved.

He's calling it like it is - 9-11 is NOW hijacked by the Republican Party. Fear! Hate! War! Vote Republican or the terrorists will get you and your family! The Democratic Party doesn't believe in democracy or the fighting for 9-11. FEAR! HATE! WAR! VOTE REPUBLICAN!

[fuller]

Do you think Sarah Palin, nay John McCain, could have just had this conversation concerning Africa?

[nfggc10]

Do you think Sarah Palin, nay John McCain, could have just had this conversation concerning Africa?McCain might have but since he solves problems differently it wouldn't have sounded the same. Palin would have no clue where to begin.

[Adeniz19]

Biden says Clinton would of been a better pick for VP:

“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight,” Biden said testily when a voter told Biden he was glad the Delaware senator had been chosen and not Clinton.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me,” he continued.

Why would he say that and question Obama's judgement? Way to shoot yourself in the foot

[loveisdead]

Biden says Clinton would of been a better pick for VP:

“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight,” Biden said testily when a voter told Biden he was glad the Delaware senator had been chosen and not Clinton.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me,” he continued.

Why would he say that and question Obama's judgement? Way to shoot yourself in the foot

That is fucking retarded.

[nfggc10]

Biden says Clinton would of been a better pick for VP:

“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight,” Biden said testily when a voter told Biden he was glad the Delaware senator had been chosen and not Clinton.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me,” he continued.

Why would he say that and question Obama's judgement? Way to shoot yourself in the footI saw the video of that earlier and I wish he would have used it in a more joke context. I think he was joking but it wasn't clear enough and now I'm sure the McCain campaign will rip him on it.

[Adeniz19]

The Obama campaign really aren't doing themselves any favors. Expect this to be another distraction in the news tomorrow

[incredulous]

Biden says Clinton would of been a better pick for VP:

“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight,” Biden said testily when a voter told Biden he was glad the Delaware senator had been chosen and not Clinton.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me,” he continued.

Why would he say that and question Obama's judgement? Way to shoot yourself in the foot
Well, the current Republican gimmick of a completely unqualified female VP candidate would never have happened if Hillary had been chosen. We all know it. I think he was alluding to that fact more than he was trying to sound self-deprecating.

But did he HAVE to give the Republicans a soundbite?

[billyboatkid]

Wow, that video was intense.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Biden says Clinton would of been a better pick for VP:

“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight,” Biden said testily when a voter told Biden he was glad the Delaware senator had been chosen and not Clinton.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me,” he continued.

Why would he say that and question Obama's judgement? Way to shoot yourself in the foot
I think he just meant it as a compliment and mostly everything he says is true. He just went over the top with it is all.

[Adeniz19]

I think he just meant it as a compliment and mostly everything he says is true. He just went over the top with it is all.Oh, I'm sure that's all he meant, but do you really thing that is how it's going to sound after all the pundits get done examining it?

[Jason Tate]

Biden says Clinton would of been a better pick for VP:

“Make no mistake about this, Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight,” Biden said testily when a voter told Biden he was glad the Delaware senator had been chosen and not Clinton.
“She’s a truly close personal friend and she is qualified to be President of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me,” he continued.

Why would he say that and question Obama's judgement? Way to shoot yourself in the foot

Pretty sure he was just complimenting Clinton.

[nfggc10]

The Obama campaign really aren't doing themselves any favors. Expect this to be another distraction in the news tomorrowI was surprised it wasn't a bigger deal today. Hopefully that's a good sign.

[Trainsaw]

wow Olbermann went nuts. He made some very good points

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Oh, I'm sure that's all he meant, but do you really thing that is how it's going to sound after all the pundits get done examining it?
To be honest, you can't do that much with it.

[Trainsaw]

Did anyone watch Larry King tonight. I think all those years of hits from martial arts made Chuck Norris go mildly retarded

[Adeniz19]

I was surprised it wasn't a bigger deal today. Hopefully that's a good sign.haha man, i hope so

[Jason Tate]

Oh, I'm sure that's all he meant, but do you really thing that is how it's going to sound after all the pundits get done examining it?

I thought it was a very humble remark.

[Adeniz19]

I thought it was a very humble remark.
I agree fully, but I also thought "putting lipstick on a pig" was just an innocent saying.

[loveisdead]

I thought it was a very humble remark.

Humble but stupid. You can't openly admit that someone was more qualified to be the VP than yourself. He probably was joking and trying to give Clinton credit, but can you imagine what we would be saying if it was Palin who said something similar about Romney?

[Adeniz19]

Humble but stupid. You can't openly admit that someone was more qualified to be the VP than yourself. He probably was joking and trying to give Clinton credit, but can you imagine what we would be saying if it was Palin who said something similar about Romney?Yea, it just seems like an odd thing to say and now we probably have Hilary supports saying "I told you so!". I think it would of been better and probably more effective if he said that she was just as qualified to be VP but not MORE.

[Jason Tate]

Humble but stupid. You can't openly admit that someone was more qualified to be the VP than yourself. He probably was joking and trying to give Clinton credit, but can you imagine what we would be saying if it was Palin who said something similar about Romney?

That's not what he said though. He said "might" - as in equal.

We'd be saying "no shit." Which is not a statement anyone can say about Biden/Clinton. Both are qualified - as he said. I see nothing wrong with his comment.

[Jason Tate]

Yea, it just seems like an odd thing to say and now we probably have Hilary supports saying "I told you so!". I think it would of been better and probably more effective if he said that she was just as qualified to be VP but not MORE.

"Maybe more." Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

He was sticking up for her after someone talked shit.

[Adeniz19]

"Maybe more." Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

He was sticking up for her after someone talked shit.Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America.

No maybe. If he would of left out the "or more" it would of been just as effective.

I see what he was trying to do but I can also see that some people might try to distort it somehow. But like someone else has already said, hopefully it doesn't really make that big of a splash in tomorrow's news coverage.

Maybe I've just become too cynical of the McCain campaign haha

[Jason Tate]

Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America.

No maybe. If he would of left out the "or more" it would of been just as effective.

I see what he was trying to do but I can also see that some people might try to distort it somehow. But like someone else has already said, hopefully it doesn't really make that big of a splash in tomorrow's news coverage.

Maybe I've just become too cynical of the McCain campaign haha
The fact that everyone is now reading into innocent sayings like a neo-con has shown that they have won the minds of America.

[Jason Tate]

Obama slams GOP on community organizer comments. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/10/obama-slams-gop-on-community-organizer-comments/)

“I was pretty surprised when I heard our opponents making fun of that work last week at their convention – mocking what so many Americans do every day in church groups and unions and the PTA to serve struggling communities. Frankly, I don’t think it’s particularly funny that people are losing their jobs and their homes,” he said.

[Adeniz19]

There is no way I would vote for McCain over something so trivial, but you are right. Their smears are having an effect and everyone will complain for another 4 years.

[The Personist]

Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America.

No maybe. If he would of left out the "or more" it would of been just as effective.

I see what he was trying to do but I can also see that some people might try to distort it somehow. But like someone else has already said, hopefully it doesn't really make that big of a splash in tomorrow's news coverage.

Maybe I've just become too cynical of the McCain campaign haha

I think you're plenty cynical of the McCain campaign. They are going to jump all over this and try to make it seem like he says he wasn't qualified. The way they're running this race is miserably depressing, especially when you think how some people eat that shit up.

[Jason Tate]

There is no way I would vote for McCain over something so trivial, but you are right. Their smears are having an effect and everyone will complain for another 4 years.
I honestly believe more will happen then complain. You saw the RNC protests - this country will move down a very jaded and cynical path. Class wars will become reality.

[Adeniz19]

I honestly believe more will happen then complain. You saw the RNC protests - this country will move down a very jaded and cynical path. Class wars will become reality.So depressing to even think about. Good thing the electoral map is on our side. CNN has it at 243 obama- 189 mccain. if you add their latest polls of va, nh, mi, and mo to their respective sides you get obama 264- mccain 213. that means ohio might not be as important as we thought if they can still take colorado and the rest of the map stays the way it is.

[Jason Tate]

So depressing to even think about. Good thing the electoral map is on our side. CNN has it at 243 obama- 189 mccain. if you add their latest polls of va, nh, mi, and mo to their respective sides you get obama 264- mccain 213. that means ohio might not be as important as we thought if they can still take colorado and the rest of the map stays the way it is.
He can win without Ohio/Florida if he cleans up the little guys and takes Colorado. If he loses Colorado he needs either Ohio or Florida. I think those three states are the most vital in this election.

[incredulous]

So depressing to even think about. Good thing the electoral map is on our side. CNN has it at 243 obama- 189 mccain. if you add their latest polls of va, nh, mi, and mo to their respective sides you get obama 264- mccain 213. that means ohio might not be as important as we thought if they can still take colorado and the rest of the map stays the way it is.
Yahoo has their projected electoral votes tied...250-250. Scary and confusing.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

That's not what he said though. He said "might" - as in equal.

We'd be saying "no shit." Which is not a statement anyone can say about Biden/Clinton. Both are qualified - as he said. I see nothing wrong with his comment.
Exactly. Plus, if the McCain campaign really want to use this, it only gives Obama more ammo to his argument of McCain not talking about the issues, which I think is having more resonance the more he pushes it.

I honestly believe more will happen then complain. You saw the RNC protests - this country will move down a very jaded and cynical path. Class wars will become reality.
Not to mention the racial impact this will have. That would sadden me the most the fallout from that.

[Adeniz19]

He can win without Ohio/Florida if he cleans up the little guys and takes Colorado. If he loses Colorado he needs either Ohio or Florida. I think those three states are the most vital in this election.yep. doubt i will be getting any sleep on election day

[Jason Tate]

Yahoo has them tied...250-250. Scary and confusing.
Actually, that's fine how Yahoo has them - he'll win if Yahoo's map stays as it is. Because he'll pick up the rest of those undecided states and has a shot at Nevada.

[Jason Tate]

Sept. 10: Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis talks about Barack Obama’s angered response to the growing controversy over his ‘lipstick’ metaphor as well as his loosening of the reins on 527 groups. (Countdown)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/26649072#26649072

Sept. 10: Newsweek’s Richard Wolffe discusses with Countdown’s Keith Olbermann whether the Republicans’ outrage over Barack Obama’s ‘lipstick’ metaphor is justifiable or another ploy in their political playbook. (Countdown)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/26649024#26649024

[saysmydoctor]

I honestly believe more will happen then complain. You saw the RNC protests - this country will move down a very jaded and cynical path. Class wars will become reality.

He can win without Ohio/Florida if he cleans up the little guys and takes Colorado. If he loses Colorado he needs either Ohio or Florida. I think those three states are the most vital in this election.
He won't get Florida, this election is all about the Virginia shift, Ohio, and Colorado, he doesn't need Florida. He needs to start implementing Dean's 50 state strategy. That = game.

[Jason Tate]

I think it is this.

0pVJ4jgFpPg
The very notion that McCain's claim that he could catch Bin Laden goes relatively unnoticed as we discuss lipstick shows me how fucked this country, this electorate, and the media really are.

[Adeniz19]

yahoo's map doesnt take into account hawaii, maryland or delaware which are all deep blue states.

[Jason Tate]

He won't get Florida, this election is all about the Virginia shift, Ohio, and Colorado, he doesn't need Florida. He needs to start implementing Dean's 50 state strategy. That = game.
He can't pull 50 states. He needs roughly 3 more to win it - not 50. Bill carried Florida - they love him down there, that's why he's going to Florida to campaign. We can take Florida.

[Jason Tate]

yahoo's map doesnt take into account hawaii, maryland or delaware which are all deep blue states.
Which wins the election for him. ;-)

[Adeniz19]

Which wins the election for him. ;-)oh and dc and vermont are also deep blue. :)

[saysmydoctor]

He can't pull 50 states. He needs roughly 3 more to win it - not 50. Bill carried Florida - they love him down there, that's why he's going to Florida to campaign. We can take Florida.
Are you shitting me? It's different election season, from primary to general. He can now recollect from everyone who previously donated the max.

Here's how I see, financially he already had the advantage and with the new portion of the season, he can still manage to regain. His campaign has been damn frugal, he stills has a shitton of money.

With the RNC fronting most of the bill, challenge McCain in McCain states. The numbers are on the side of Democrats, they've managed to register old voters and create the best turnout in decades.

McCain is old, he is the median age of Florida. Not really, but still, I don't see Florida as vital. Virginia. Hasn't voted democrat since the 60s, I think.

Edit: That 'are you shitting me' seems mad rude. It's not meant to be.

[The Personist]

Yahoo has their projected electoral votes tied...250-250. Scary and confusing.

CNN's electoral map is better. It has the states labelled as safe, leaning, and tossups.

[Jason Tate]

Are you shitting me? It's different election season, from primary to general. He can now recollect from everyone who previously donated the max.

Here's how I see, financially he already had the advantage and with the new portion of the season, he can still manage to regain. His campaign has been damn frugal, he stills has a shitton of money.

With the RNC fronting most of the bill, challenge McCain in McCain states. The numbers are on the side of Democrats, they've managed to register old voters and create the best turnout in decades.

McCain is old, he is the median age of Florida. Not really, but still, I don't see Florida as vital. Virginia. Hasn't voted democrat since the 60s, I think.

Edit: That 'are you shitting me' seems mad rude. It's not meant to be.
But he won't win most of the McCain states - you spend any time there McCain won't waste any extra money (which he is not short of) in those states in 50 days -- the election won't change, he knows that, you simply wasted your own time. He's not going to run to some state he's guaranteed and waste some money simply because he sees Obama campaigning there.

There are a few red states worth looking at -- Nevada, Ohio, Florida are a good start - and he's within striking distance. All 50 states is just poor planning.

Last I saw they do not have a shitton of money - in fact they need more.

He's down 4-5 points in Virginia - a state my girlfriend is from and I know very well. He won't win Virginia no matter how much money he spends there; he has a far better shot at Florida (which he doesn't need if he can take Colorado). Obama's removal of taxes for the elderly should help in Florida (only down 2-3 depending on what you look at).

[saysmydoctor]

But the voter turnout says otherwise. Encourage them. He won't win all of them, go for the ones that are closest. Of course he won't win all 50, but campaign there regardless. It's not blue and red, it's USA. The Republicans are scared of his turnout.

He is down a few points, but he can. Kaine likes him, Webb likes him. I think Virginia is very viable.

I see your point, but I honestly believe he should consider a mix. I wanna see Virginia switch. That is a symbolic change, to me.

When did you turn 25? Wow. Thought you were 23.

Last I saw they had a shitton, maybe I'm wrong.

[Adeniz19]

Most of the southern states would be pointless to spend any money/time in

[saysmydoctor]

I've already posted the links in another thread, but if you saw the numbers.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

He can't pull 50 states. He needs roughly 3 more to win it - not 50. Bill carried Florida - they love him down there, that's why he's going to Florida to campaign. We can take Florida.
Don't forget god willing there is a surprise on election day, Georgia can go to Obama. It's about 40 to 60 percent here but there might be a chance since I think it's possible that there could be a much bigger turn out for Obama than people expect.

[Jason Tate]

But the voter turnout says otherwise. Encourage them. He won't win all of them, go for the ones that are closest. Of course he won't win all 50, but campaign there regardless. It's not blue and red, it's USA. The Republicans are scared of his turnout.

He is down a few points, but he can. Kaine likes him, Webb likes him. I think Virginia is very viable.

I see your point, but I honestly believe he should consider a mix. I wanna see Virginia switch. That is a symbolic change, to me.

When did you turn 25? Wow. Thought you were 23.

Last I saw they had a shitton, maybe I'm wrong.
There's some 50 days left. He needs to spend his time where it matters - if he wastes any days in a state that could have been spent in Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Penn, etc -- it's a waste of a day. He can win this election with the map he has now - plus solidifying one more state. You don't spread yourself thin in that kind of position - you focus and win that last state while hunkering down your base.

I highly, highly down Virginia will switch. Die hard republicans there that will do anything - and I mean anything - to win.

March.

I think the turnout is deceptive. A lot of people switched parties to vote in the primaries - they switched to vote for Obama and keep Hillary out - now they'll vote Republican.

[fuller]

Throwing some money at MT, the Dakotas, Missouri, NV could also divert McCain attention and money away from Ohio and Florida. I think by Nov 4th, Obama will have won 1 or 2 of those I listed. It's possible.

[Jason Tate]

Don't forget god willing there is a surprise on election day, Georgia can go to Obama. It's about 40 to 60 percent here but there might be a chance since I think it's possible that there could be a much bigger turn out for Obama than people expect.
Last I saw he was getting hammered in Georgia. Heh.

[Jason Tate]

Throwing some money at MT, the Dakotas, Missouri, NV could also divert McCain attention and money away from Ohio and Florida. I think by Nov 4th, Obama will have won 1 or 2 of those I listed. It's possible.
Nevada yes - but I don't think it will divert McCain at all. It's too obvious. And there is no incentive for McCain to waste any time over there - he simply needs to look at the numbers and shrug. McCain's spending money in Washington and Oregon knowing he probably won't win these states -- he's not going to get distracted by little money moving games. It's just not logical.

[Adeniz19]

I was actually surprised to see mccain campaign in chicago the other day. probably just for symbolic purposes.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Last I saw he was getting hammered in Georgia. Heh.
Give or take, Obama is still 10 points behind McCain here and it's been like that for a while.

[fuller]

Give or take, Obama is still 10 points behind McCain here and it's been like that for a while.

However with Barr on the ticket and Ron Paul mulling over becoming his VP nominee, that could do some major damage come election day. If AA turnout is high, it could play alot closer then people think.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

However with Barr on the ticket and Ron Paul mulling over becoming his VP nominee, that could do some major damage come election day. If AA turnout is high, it could play alot closer then people think.
True and Barr is pretty well known and liked here. It will be interesting to see.

[Jason Tate]

True and Barr is pretty well known and liked here. It will be interesting to see.
Cross the fingers.