God as a defense mechanism

[xXaLLiOo]

http://wonderingsyoungmind.blogspot.com/2007/12/religion-truth-or-defense-mechanism.html

I thought this was a really interesting idea. I tend to only turn to God when I am unsatisfied with my life; You could say I use it to cope, turning my problems into trials or temptations that God then gives me the power to overcome. I just kind of wanted to hear if other people think this is possible, that the idea of God is just a complex defense mechanism to justify/explain behavior and provide a believable solution to problems we are otherwise unable to handle ourselves.

Also the article doesn't mention this but the theory extends to Christianity in the sense that forgiveness is the easiest justification there is, sins are forgiven and you no longer have to feel guilt or the other emotions defense mechanisms protect us from.

[RedWineSheets]

In philosophy it is similar but not identical to Pascal's Wager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

[xXaLLiOo]

God exists as a really sub standard way of explaining things we cannot explain correctly. It has developed from there.

I don't know if it's just been developed really well in my mind by God as the explanation of things I don't understand is my first impulse. Like when a cig makes me sick first impulse is God wants me to quit. That's kind of a bad example but I can't seem to think of a better one.

[saysmydoctor]

What the fuck is God?

[open mind]

is it possible that people use god as a defense mechanism? of course.
do some people use god as a defense mechanism? you bet.

[Nevuk]

What the fuck is God?
Some kind of weird elephant who wants to fuck EVERYTHING

[samsara]

i believe in God

but hey isnt it better to have hope in life rather than have nothing at all?

[myplanforescape]

i believe in God

but hey isnt it better to have hope in life rather than have nothing at all?

I would say that god isn't a necessity to have hope in life.

[billyboatkid]

No doubt some people use it.

A lot of Hardcore Christians do it to..

[nfggc10]

i believe in God

but hey isnt it better to have hope in life rather than have nothing at all?Your implication that hope can't exist without religious faith is absurd and quite offensive.

[samsara]

im just saying it seems depressing when theres nothing to look foward to after death but ill just leave it at that im not one to fight people

[nfggc10]

im just saying it seems depressing when theres nothing to look foward to after death but ill just leave it at that im not one to fight peopleIt's only depressing if you actually fear there's nothing waiting for you when you die. If you've accepted that possibility like I have that "hope" you speak of is unnecessary.

[Siren Silently]

but hey isnt it better to have hope in life rather than have nothing at all?

If you only have hope in life because of your religion you may want to consult some therapy.

[incredulous]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to believe in a personal god that cares about you in your darkest hours IMO. Things start going wrong when you start imposing that faith on others.

Not that I can really make myself believe in a personal god. But that's me.

[xXaLLiOo]

It just seems so ridiculous that I have to force myself to believe in God. Any other religious people find that just believing is a constant battle?

[open mind]

It just seems so ridiculous that I have to force myself to believe in God. Any other religious people find that just believing is a constant battle?

not me.
if you have to force it you should probably just give it up for now....i'm no expert but in my opinion forcing things isn't spiritually healthy.

[Matthew Tsai]

http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6067

[Matthew Tsai]

that article was not written to prove the existence of god. it was just written to address the specific issue of "is god all in the mind"?

believe what you want but nothing you say in your post hasn't already been addressed. for e.g., most scientists actually believe in a god, a conclusion reached from years of scientific research.

[Matthew Tsai]

assuming there's absolutely no evidence there is a god is a little extreme, considering it's all about how you interpret evidence.

anyway, let's not argue. i know you're rooted firmly in your atheism

[x togepi x]

that article was not written to prove the existence of god. it was just written to address the specific issue of "is god all in the mind"?

believe what you want but nothing you say in your post hasn't already been addressed. for e.g., most scientists actually believe in a god, a conclusion reached from years of scientific research.

sweet, two logical fallacies in one.

[lightcollapse]

I thought it was well accepted that people believe in God because they don't want to believe that life ends on earth, that the idea that when you die there's nothing left, you're just biologically inactive, is too much for some people to handle.

[nicgiovanni]

i think lucy is in the sky.

with diamonds.
and free lsd for everyone.

= D

JESUS DIED FOR SOMEBODY'S SIN BUT NOT MINE.

[sdbrown]

Basically, yeah. I was discussing how weird I thought it was with a friend, she just responded if it wasn't god it'd probably be alcohol or drugs.

[The Personist]

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Some famous dude said that. He was so right.

[open mind]

i'm not going to debate the existance of god here as it's been shown to go nowhere....i'm just going to say condescending athiests are real douchebags.

[singyoutocoma]

i'm not going to debate the existance of god here as it's been shown to go nowhere....i'm just going to say condescending athiests are real douchebags.

While some atheists are overly argumentative, I think it stands to reason that this is in part reactionary to some Christians who argue that the atheists are actually failures as people or in peril of some sort of "eternal punishment" based on refusal to accept seemingly unlikely assertions in absence of anything they could regard as irrefutable or even probable evidence. And while I haven't taken a census, I know I've experienced many more of the latter than of the former, and I'd posit that there are more of the latter in general than of the former.

[TK]

i'm not going to debate the existance of god here as it's been shown to go nowhere....i'm just going to say condescending athiests are real douchebags.

Hahaha, is that a term you're using for this board, or just for condescending atheists in general?

[open mind]

While some atheists are overly argumentative, I think it stands to reason that this is in part reactionary to some Christians who argue that the atheists are actually failures as people or in peril of some sort of "eternal punishment" based on refusal to accept seemingly unlikely assertions in absence of anything they could regard as irrefutable or even probable evidence. And while I haven't taken a census, I know I've experienced many more of the latter than of the former, and I'd posit that there are more of the latter in general than of the former.

yeah, not everyone who believes in god believes you're going to hell for not believing also (it's big in america though i'll grant you that)......and if you're going to try and appeal to one's intelligence and sense of logic it's kind of retarded to start off by generalizing the opinions of a billion plus people like so many agnostics/athiests do here.

[open mind]

Hahaha, is that a term you're using for this board, or just for condescending atheists in general?

condescension in general gets you slapped with the douchebag label....which makes me a douchebag to i guess.

[TK]

condescension in general gets you slapped with the douchebag label....which makes me a douchebag to i guess.

Well, we're all kind of douchebags...

[open mind]

Well, we're all kind of douchebags...

you'd think south park would have had a song about that by now.

[singyoutocoma]

yeah, not everyone who believes in god believes you're going to hell for not believing also (it's big in america though i'll grant you that)......

Speaking as a Christian, I would hope not.

I agree with your second point.

[nicgiovanni]

yeah, not everyone who believes in god believes you're going to hell for not believing also (it's big in america though i'll grant you that)......and if you're going to try and appeal to one's intelligence and sense of logic it's kind of retarded to start off by generalizing the opinions of a billion plus people like so many agnostics/athiests do here.


look, i know there are good people and there are bad people in this world.

regardless of religious beliefs. and i have met a few awesome people who are Christians.

but straight up...

FUCK CHRISTIANITY.

i have had god and religion shoved down my throat since i was a kid. i've been to those church camps where they "exercise" the demons out of yr body.

i've had the preacher promise fire and brimstone for anyone who wasn't a follower. anyone who was a sinner.

along with all the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other ridiculous shit that i had to deal with, RELIGION was a big thing that ran me outta my hometown.

and i'll never go back. tell that to the preacher for sure.

i try to love everyone and respect their views and ideas, but straight up, christianity is the worst fucking religion. and i hate organized religion in general.

i don't care what you believe in as far as an aftermath. i believe when you die, you die. if people knew you for something you did, maybe you'll get put in a history book. otherwise, in 150 years, you'll be forgotten.

[Matthew Tsai]

look, i know there are good people and there are bad people in this world.

regardless of religious beliefs. and i have met a few awesome people who are Christians.

but straight up...

FUCK CHRISTIANITY.

i have had god and religion shoved down my throat since i was a kid. i've been to those church camps where they "exercise" the demons out of yr body.

i've had the preacher promise fire and brimstone for anyone who wasn't a follower. anyone who was a sinner.

along with all the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other ridiculous shit that i had to deal with, RELIGION was a big thing that ran me outta my hometown.

and i'll never go back. tell that to the preacher for sure.

i try to love everyone and respect their views and ideas, but straight up, christianity is the worst fucking religion. and i hate organized religion in general.

i don't care what you believe in as far as an aftermath. i believe when you die, you die. if people knew you for something you did, maybe you'll get put in a history book. otherwise, in 150 years, you'll be forgotten.

i am so sorry you've had to put up with "Christians" who were nothing short of buttcracks.

[nicgiovanni]

i am so sorry you've had to put up with "Christians" who were nothing short of buttcracks.

are you being sincere or sarcastic?

haha.

i mean, shit, i'm not tryin' to be all emotional or nothin' yo, but lyke shiiiiiiit.

when yr four years old and they're like trying water on you and like placing their palm over yr little head, screaming in tongues....it's scary....

being a young queer kid in a small town with a population of zero other queers or any gay people at all...

i mean the two kids who were gay in my high school got so much shit and the one was beaten up pretty badly.

[open mind]

look, i know there are good people and there are bad people in this world.

regardless of religious beliefs. and i have met a few awesome people who are Christians.

but straight up...

FUCK CHRISTIANITY.

i have had god and religion shoved down my throat since i was a kid. i've been to those church camps where they "exercise" the demons out of yr body.

i've had the preacher promise fire and brimstone for anyone who wasn't a follower. anyone who was a sinner.

along with all the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other ridiculous shit that i had to deal with, RELIGION was a big thing that ran me outta my hometown.

and i'll never go back. tell that to the preacher for sure.

i try to love everyone and respect their views and ideas, but straight up, christianity is the worst fucking religion. and i hate organized religion in general.

i don't care what you believe in as far as an aftermath. i believe when you die, you die. if people knew you for something you did, maybe you'll get put in a history book. otherwise, in 150 years, you'll be forgotten.

blaming all of christianity for what goes on in the town you grew up in is unfair.

[vaguestcargo]

Only a christian would be dumb enough to attempt to disprove God by tackling the "emotional" arguments for his non existence.

That's the kind of bigoted generalization and judgementalism that most non-christians despise fundamentalist christians for.

i find this ironic.

[vaguestcargo]

look, i know there are good people and there are bad people in this world.

regardless of religious beliefs. and i have met a few awesome people who are Christians.

but straight up...

FUCK CHRISTIANITY.



I, too am sorry this has been your experience. Born and bred church kid speaking, I know and have seen the worst of the worst, and have been on the receiving end of some of the most terrible things someone who alleges to 'love' you could possibly do.

That said, this is why my faith is not rooted in religion. My best understanding of God is that He could care less about religion, and is probably fairly disgusted with it...

i try to love everyone and respect their views and ideas, but straight up, christianity is the worst fucking religion. and i hate organized religion in general.


I can see your anger, but I recall a certain fundamentalist faith that flew some airplanes into some buildings and killed a whole mess of people. Best I know, Christianity hasn't done that (recently)

[bluecrunchy]

look, i know there are good people and there are bad people in this world.

regardless of religious beliefs. and i have met a few awesome people who are Christians.

but straight up...

FUCK CHRISTIANITY.

i have had god and religion shoved down my throat since i was a kid. i've been to those church camps where they "exercise" the demons out of yr body.

i've had the preacher promise fire and brimstone for anyone who wasn't a follower. anyone who was a sinner.

along with all the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other ridiculous shit that i had to deal with, RELIGION was a big thing that ran me outta my hometown.

and i'll never go back. tell that to the preacher for sure.

i try to love everyone and respect their views and ideas, but straight up, christianity is the worst fucking religion. and i hate organized religion in general.

i don't care what you believe in as far as an aftermath. i believe when you die, you die. if people knew you for something you did, maybe you'll get put in a history book. otherwise, in 150 years, you'll be forgotten.

A lot of people have a hard time discerning the difference between religion and faith. So many people assume that all "Christians" are just idiots who try to force their beliefs down other people's throats. I think religious institutions have, in many ways, ruined the very things that they should be about, like spending more time giving to the poor and loving each other regardless of their beliefs or actions. So before you condemn an entire group of people, you should know that there are Christians who don't care if you're gay or what race you are.

[vaguestcargo]

Learn to read genuis. I never said all chrsitians are idiots. I said only a christian would fundamentally misunderstand atheism so incredibly badly as to take the time to "disprove" an emotional arguement for God not existing.

that's generalizing, sir.

And i'm sorry you're so angry. I'm just thinking that acting like a 6-year-old isn't going to do anything more than make people think you're as immature and uneducated as you're sounding at the moment.

[vaguestcargo]

But they did support (along with Jews) the mass killing of civilians in Lebanon.

I won't claim to be super up-to-date on what you're talking about, but if it is this http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/aug2006/leba-a05.shtml then I think there's a difference between US-Israeli and Christian-Jew(religion).


But again, I really don't know much about it.

[vaguestcargo]

I'm fairly certain there was a lot of people in crazy churches across America who thought they were doing God's work taking on Hezbollah (one of them is the GOP's VP) and killing all those civilians.

Don't see how that's any different from Al Qaeda.

Night and day.

Your first example is of a specific action that some select individuals/groups will get behind (after it had already been acted out) and attempt to assign meaning while your second is a specific action committed SPECIFICALLY to appease a god or belief system.


and agreed on that crazy palin bitch.

[open mind]

But they did support (along with Jews) the mass killing of civilians in Lebanon.

they? define they.

[vaguestcargo]

they? define they.

i think he means all of christianity, or something like that.

[open mind]

The fundamentalists of course.

i don't think you can say that even the nuttiest of the bat shit crazy christian fundamentalists are on record as saying killing innocent civilians in lebanon is something they're totally behind.

[&IllBeTheReason]

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Some famous dude said that. He was so right.
You've upstaged me. I alwyas say that in religious argument threads.
:[
Meh, it's about time I passed the torch.

[vaguestcargo]

Okay well take Iraq/Afghanistan instead. How many evangelicals signed up for that taking it as a holy war?

Again. I doubt many (if none at all) military men and women enlisted trying to do God's work. Damn near every military person I met has an intense allegiance to the country and fights for that.

Now, did evangelicals get on board once war was declared (or whatever happened) and call it a holy war? Sure, I'm certain there were some, but that was my point in the previous point. None of these actions are BECAUSE of religion/christianity/etc... they can be INTERPRETED as such by fundamentalists in a way to feed their crazy pew-sitting antics, but they're not taking any action.

Flying a plane into the WTC SPECIFICALLY to do the will of Allah, etc, was an intentional, religion-based initiative.

[vaguestcargo]

i don't think you can say that even the nuttiest of the bat shit crazy christian fundamentalists are on record as saying killing innocent civilians in lebanon is something they're totally behind.

maybe gays, lol, but not lebanese ;)

[vaguestcargo]

Incorrect. They are the result of fundamentalism because without the support of fundamentalists: A) George Bush would never have been elected and B) He would never have been allowed to go into Iraq and C) Most of the troops are from the poor, uneducated and religious parts section of American society.

There is no chance at all that had Iraq been a christian country the invasion would have gone ahead, absoulutely none. So yes it is a religious issue, yes it was intentional and yes anyone could figure out civilians would die on a large scale.

Agreed on A ... though you can also say w/o any number of demographics Bush wouldn't have been elected, so it's just as much their fault as it is fundamentalists.

B) Disagree. Congress didn't support it for a religious reason. It had to do with all them "wmd" things people keep talking about *shrugs*

C) I see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure you're completely right on that one (but will concede if you can prove it) ... just because people are poor and/or uneducated does not mean religion has anything to do with their lives. I'll go look up your definitions of "generalization" to see if that comment applied.

[vaguestcargo]

WBC.

And across the mainstream their aren't people who want the Muslim world off the map? Hell Ann Coulter has said as much herself.

I'm not big on waging wars against beliefs because it seems like quite the slippery slope, but if we could put an ultimate end to fundamentalist muslims, the world WOULD indeed be a better place. I don't think anyone would disagree.


I also feel the same way about fundamentalist christians.

[nicgiovanni]

A lot of people have a hard time discerning the difference between religion and faith. So many people assume that all "Christians" are just idiots who try to force their beliefs down other people's throats. I think religious institutions have, in many ways, ruined the very things that they should be about, like spending more time giving to the poor and loving each other regardless of their beliefs or actions. So before you condemn an entire group of people, you should know that there are Christians who don't care if you're gay or what race you are.

i don't think i was condemning christians.

i think i was condemning your religion.

i know people who are christian and i am friends with them. god knows, i have family members who are.

i'm just saying in general, that your religion is bullshit. i'm glad you try to love and respect everyone. that's great. and whatever you believe in is also great.

i just don't believe someone died for my sins. i don't believe that when things happen that you can't "explain", that it's a higher power.

i don't think it's fair to say i assume anything when in my experience, 90% of the christians i've met have forced their religion down my throat or have used it in some way to discuss their political and social views that i find disgusting.

i don't hate christians or condemn them. i just think their religion is ridiculous.

oh...and you know there have been a lot of fucking cases where christians have killed others for their faith. look back into history. like when christians killed pagans and so forth. or hey, even look at the salem witch trials. you might not see it as much today...

oh and not everyone believes that it was so called "terrorists" that wiped out the world trade center...

just saying.

[open mind]

WBC.

And across the mainstream their aren't people who want the Muslim world off the map? Hell Ann Coulter has said as much herself.

wbc?

i don't believe it's a mainstream desire....and who the hell says ann coulter represents any religion?

[open mind]

WBC.

And across the mainstream their aren't people who want the Muslim world off the map? Hell Ann Coulter has said as much herself.

wbc?

no, i don't believe it's a mainstream desire....and who the hell says ann coulter represents any religion?

[open mind]

http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/images/iq_vs_religion.png

http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm

what sources did they use to make that graph? without proper sourcing it's just a useless graph.

[vaguestcargo]

http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/images/iq_vs_religion.png

http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm

Sorry. Didn't see "education level" or "socio-economical class" on there. IQ and those things aren't necessarily connected.

[open mind]

The religious attitude data is from a poll that was part of the Pew Global Attitudes Project. The survey report is available online at:
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=167


The IQ data is from IQ and the Wealth of Nations by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen.

It's all at the bottom of the original site.

richard lynn and tatu vanhanen have done global iq testing on hundreds of millions of people?

[vaguestcargo]

haha dude admit I just threw down an ace. Be a man.

fail. i see your point, but your assumptions and your "evidence" aren't connected. You can go through 17 years of schooling and still have a low IQ. Fairly sure I graduated with a handful of them.

Rich kids, too, can have low IQs. Your ace is a bit presumptive.

[Matthew Tsai]

are you being sincere or sarcastic?

haha.

i mean, shit, i'm not tryin' to be all emotional or nothin' yo, but lyke shiiiiiiit.

when yr four years old and they're like trying water on you and like placing their palm over yr little head, screaming in tongues....it's scary....

being a young queer kid in a small town with a population of zero other queers or any gay people at all...

i mean the two kids who were gay in my high school got so much shit and the one was beaten up pretty badly.

not sarcastic. there are more hypocritical "christians" in the world than not. pouring water on you and placing their palms on you and screaming in tongue? MAN i dunno WHAT they were thinking, but that's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard anyone do. you were 4YRSOLD. those people are just plain hypocritical and incredibly stupid

[GuitarR0cker1]

175,000 people were surveyed across 54 countries for the religiousity. That's 3000 per nation which seems a more than adequete sample. Moreover, none of their findings appear odd to me.

For the IQ I could not find numbers. Nothing about their findings seem at all surprising to me. It's widely known that orientals have the highest IQ, Europeans next, North America after that, then the rest.
Exactly why that explains the religious findings with Asians. Besides that book is ridiculous in many ways so I wouldn't use it as a source.

[GuitarR0cker1]

You're ignoring the obvious. No one who is smart or rich would ever join the army.
You obviously have never lived in America before. There are plenty of people like this that are in the Airforce or are officers that are big time Neo-Cons. These are the people that make the stereotype that most people in the military are hardcore Bush supporting Republican.

[open mind]

175,000 people were surveyed across 54 countries for the religiousity. That's 3000 per nation which seems a more than adequete sample. Moreover, none of their findings appear odd to me.

For the IQ I could not find numbers. Nothing about their findings seem at all surprising to me. It's widely known that orientals have the highest IQ, Europeans next, North America after that, then the rest.

i don't really care about the religiousity (is that a word even?).

a graph is meaningless without reliable information to back it up.

[GuitarR0cker1]

What are you talking about on both fronts?
Asians have extremely low religious rates not because they have a high IQ but because it is not a part of their society anymore. Religion was extremely important in Europe and the Americans even 100 years ago when in China it still wasn't that big of a factor and yet our IQ's were probably just as similar. In China stupid religious beliefs are just translated into just as stupid taboos and superstitions.

The book is always stupid because it uses unweighed IQ tests and there was a limited amount of people in each study. I generally have problems with books like this for some ideological reasons. People who believe in Eugenics often use stupid studies like this to justify their rascist views.

[open mind]

It is reliable. What about it is unreliable? Show to me where you think what they've said is unrealistic?

simply calling it reliable does not make it so.....something like i dunno proof (funny that i'm having to point this out to an agnostic) that they've done proper research matters.

[GuitarR0cker1]

It was a joke.
haha well that makes more sense.

[vaguestcargo]

You're ignoring the obvious. No one who is smart or rich would ever join the army.

gaaaaaaaaah generalizing!!!!!!!


lol jk. that was for the chuckles.


And I'm not ignoring it, I'm just saying that sweeping *whispers* generalizations */whispers* always allow exceptions. I'm willing to bet there are plenty of wealthy individuals who could run CIRCLES around you, me and most everyone we know in damn near any academic forum enlisted in the military. I know a few personally, too.

But I'll concede to your point (solely so you drop it) ... that MOST military persons are of par or sub-par intelligence and middle- to lower-class. MOST, not ALL. Cuz THAT would be generalizing.

[vaguestcargo]

It was a joke.

ack. all that typing. for naught. lol

good form, sir. apologies on missing the joke

[bluecrunchy]

i don't think i was condemning christians.

i think i was condemning your religion.

i know people who are christian and i am friends with them. god knows, i have family members who are.

i'm just saying in general, that your religion is bullshit. i'm glad you try to love and respect everyone. that's great. and whatever you believe in is also great.

i just don't believe someone died for my sins. i don't believe that when things happen that you can't "explain", that it's a higher power.

i don't think it's fair to say i assume anything when in my experience, 90% of the christians i've met have forced their religion down my throat or have used it in some way to discuss their political and social views that i find disgusting.

i don't hate christians or condemn them. i just think their religion is ridiculous.

oh...and you know there have been a lot of fucking cases where christians have killed others for their faith. look back into history. like when christians killed pagans and so forth. or hey, even look at the salem witch trials. you might not see it as much today...

oh and not everyone believes that it was so called "terrorists" that wiped out the world trade center...

just saying.

If Christianity's not for you, I won't try to convince you otherwise. Still, I think you're missing my point. My point is that so many Christians don't even know what their religion is about. Do you think Jesus would be in favor of killing people for being "pagans" or "witches?" No. He spent a lot of his time hanging out with those people. See Luke 6:27 for example. That doesn't sound a whole lot like modern "Christian" fundamentalists.

[GuitarR0cker1]

The pattern is completely universal aside from one anomoly in America (which even then isn't a real anomoly because the people within America who have low IQ's are more likely to believe than those with high IQ's). It's a hard fact that smart people value religion less than dumb people and the stats are right there to back it up.

Once again you don't like the conclusion so you throw a hissy fit and say it's unreliable when it isn't at all. It's a hard fact. What about both pieces of data seem false to you? Do you think that in reality Angola has an average IQ of 106? Or that Germany has an IQ of 67? No. Everything in both pieces of data reflects exactly what you would guess the survey's would find, there are no suprises in there.



Logically fallacy and also massive stupidity. If a survey demonstrates that black people are of lower intelligence on average then that is fact. It's not wrong because you dislike the conclusions. A fact is a fact.
It is true that smart people value religion less than dumb people. I won't deny it but I am saying that it is stupid to assume that it is always true. In many communities the rich who often have higher IQ's than the poor around them are just as religious. This is true in lots of suburbia. Yeah I'm not surprised by the data but it seems very racial to me. I mean Argentina isn't that much better off than Mexico economically and it only has slightly less religiousity and yet according to IQ it should be much different.

I recognize it is a logical fallacy but you have to recognize that many who do support eugenics use IQ studies to support them. It may be a fact but IQ's can be raised by good education systems and healthcare anyways.

[GuitarR0cker1]

When the only source of info on him at all is a book which cites no sources but claims he is the son of a lone God, I think you can safely say you have no idea what he would think of people accused of witchcraft if he existed at all.
Are you seriously trying to suggest Jesus never existed? That is ridiculous, almost all historians have agreed that someone at least similar to Jesus existed and there are records of him.

[bluecrunchy]

When the only source of info on him at all is a book which cites no sources but claims he is the son of a lone God, I think you can safely say you have no idea what he would think of people accused of witchcraft if he existed at all.

I knew before I even posted that this would be your response. Even if you don't believe he existed, I was using this example to show how many Christians do not practice what the religion preaches.

[absolutecrunk]

It is reliable. What about it is unreliable? Show to me where you think what they've said is unrealistic?
Just thought I would drop in to post this interesting tool (http://sda.berkeley.edu:8080/quicktables/quicksetoptions.do?reportKey=gss04% 3A1) from the UCB Survey Documentation & Analysis page. If you set the column variable as 'Relative Family Income' or 'Highest Degree Earned' and the row variable as really anything, you will see some pretty relevant graphs that align with your argument. There isn't anything about religiosity per se, but some of the notable row variables are 'How Fundamentalist is R' and 'Feelings About the Bible'.

That's all, I'm henceforth staying out of this.

[open mind]

When the only source of info on him at all is a book which cites no sources but claims he is the son of a lone God, I think you can safely say you have no idea what he would think of people accused of witchcraft if he existed at all.

:-|

i'm totally sick of arguing religion on this site, but it's maddening how disrespectful and flat out intolerant you and so many of the atheists/agnostics that frequent ap are of people with differing opinions on religion......talk about hypocrisy.

[GuitarR0cker1]

This isn't about individuals or saying you're religious, therefore you're an idiot, just look at this graph.

It is about plotting overall trends which it accurately does.



It's a funny one because intelligence is also affected by genes. Smart parents give birth to smart kids. Of course it's also hugely swayed by nurture as well. I don't think it's that unreasonable to say that oriental races have evolved to be more intelligent than other races. Black people have certainly evolved to be more athletic (watch much of the olympics?).
How the hell does that have anything to do with what I was talking about? But yes I agree overall the smarter you are the less religious you are on average.

Yes it is true it has to do with gene but at the same time I think overall it has to do with stability in cultures, and levels of progress dealing with civilization than anything else. Let's put it this way: it has nothing to do with the race, but the things that impact humanity.

[open mind]

Good go away. I'm sick of your moaning about intolerance every time I prove you wrong.

you haven't proven me wrong on anything, but i do believe i've exposed alot of your poor logic and inherent ignorance on this topic since you repeatedly lacked an intelligent rebuttal to the arguments i presented you in past threads you condescending, hypocritical, pseudo-intellectual, elitist, close minded, asshat.

i'm done with you, have a nice life douchebag.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Perhaps they tell you that in Church. Being the guy who is in a final year of a history degree I'll tell you no one who ever met Jesus and is historically verifiable himself ever wrote about it. The best we have is Paul of Tarsus, who definitely existed, but he met never Jesus.
I don't even go to church and I stopped believing in much of the Old Testament last year. Besides at this stage I don't even treat the Bible as a religious document but much more as philosophical text that has many great points.

Come on though to act like because you have a history degree means that you have all authority to deal with the existance of Jesus is utterly ridiculous but yes you are right about Paul of Tarsus but at least you will admit someone extremely similar to Jesus existed.

[The Affliction]

Well, from an anthropological stance, culture is a uniquely-human form of adaptation, and drawing from empirical evidence we can observe that each type of culture has its respective religion which correlates to its size and ideas of power.

Religion is, definitely, a defense mechanism, and easily traceable and deconstructed using history.

It's really a form of spiritual cheating.

[nicgiovanni]

If Christianity's not for you, I won't try to convince you otherwise. Still, I think you're missing my point. My point is that so many Christians don't even know what their religion is about. Do you think Jesus would be in favor of killing people for being "pagans" or "witches?" No. He spent a lot of his time hanging out with those people. See Luke 6:27 for example. That doesn't sound a whole lot like modern "Christian" fundamentalists.


I don't need to read the Bible ever again, thanks.

I've already read better fairy tales.

I'm fine with you believing whatever you want.

But Jesus did not die for me. He may have died for you. He may have walked on water. But I think it's all bullshit.

And the Bible...the Bible is a book of shitty fables that change quite often. Straight up.

"What happened to you?
You're not the same
Something in your head
Made a violent change
It's in your head
FILLER
You call it religion
You're full of shit"

Thank you, Minor Threat.

[phil19]

i think religion was initailly invented by humans as a way to explain things around them which they didnt understand. to explain the environment around them and the things they saw, they turned to religion and 'gods'. in my mind, science performs the same function. science explians the things, or attempts, to explain the same things which religion and god(s) do.
As science develops i see little need for religion.
I certainly agree that people use god and their religion as a crutch in times of need and doubt. you find people who never go to church suddenly praying the moment someone close to them becomes sick or is involved in an accident.
while i personally dont believe in god i can see why people act in this way. i find it somewhat contradictory, but in times of need, if it helps people get through, who am i to judge them for it.

[tormented lust]

i don't rlly have a religion... the closest thing i have is the whole agnostic thing... i honestly don't rlly care...

[windmillninja]

These things inevitably turn into "Look at me! I'm an atheist!" threads. Really, though, I just wanted to ask wtf this was doing in the politics section.

[tormented lust]

who rlly cares if ur athiest or christian or wutever u want to call urself, its wut u want... if u turn to god in ur most desperate time of need, then i dont c a problem with that,,, its wut u want, so it doesn't rlly matter....

[loveisdead]

These things inevitably turn into "Look at me! I'm an atheist!" threads. Really, though, I just wanted to ask wtf this was doing in the politics section.
Politics/religion often go hand in hand. Plus posting stuff like this is the general really brings in the idiots.