Rice to make 'significant' speech on Russia

[ToMyBetterAngel]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080917/pl_afp/georgiarussiaconflictsossetiaabkhaz iausrice_080917190529

Thoughts? Predictions?

I feel like any sanctions or actions we take against Russia will backfire and further deteriorate relations. This back and forth thing between Russia and America is geting tired and quite frankly dangerous.

[mikeyystyles]

My thoughts on Russia: Russia became a super power in the early to mid 20th century based on flexing their muscle and scare tactics. They used scare tactics with their own people and killed many (so they say). Russia since then has always tried to stay relevant in the world. Some Historians feel that Russia had help from the U.S. government in making them seem more powerful and scary then what they really are. Someone once used an analogy that seems to fit what Russia really could be.. "All Russia is is rust, with a fresh coat of paint over it". Meaning everything on the outside looks great but underneath their is nothing valuable. The long and short of it is, Russia has become weak due to their declining economy. However recently Russia has seen a slight improvement and they are taking advantage of this by Flexing their muscle once again. They want it to seem that times are way better then they appear. Can't blame them. However I'm sure their intentions aren't world dominance. Putin is a smart guy, he has great relations with Bush. Bush is on his way out, Putin see's this and makes his move. Anyway I'm more or less rambling. History repeats itself.

[Machu505]

Cold War II

[We'reAllThieves]

Has the cold war really ended?

[benjammun]

My thoughts on Russia: Russia became a super power in the early to mid 20th century based on flexing their muscle and scare tactics. They used scare tactics with their own people and killed many (so they say). Russia since then has always tried to stay relevant in the world. Some Historians feel that Russia had help from the U.S. government in making them seem more powerful and scary then what they really are. Someone once used an analogy that seems to fit what Russia really could be.. "All Russia is is rust, with a fresh coat of paint over it". Meaning everything on the outside looks great but underneath their is nothing valuable. The long and short of it is, Russia has become weak due to their declining economy. However recently Russia has seen a slight improvement and they are taking advantage of this by Flexing their muscle once again. They want it to seem that times are way better then they appear. Can't blame them. However I'm sure their intentions aren't world dominance. Putin is a smart guy, he has great relations with Bush. Bush is on his way out, Putin see's this and makes his move. Anyway I'm more or less rambling. History repeats itself.

I think you're misled on a lot of these points.

[Machu505]

Has the cold war really ended?

Good question.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

Has the cold war really ended?

I'm kind of inclined to believe it just took a little break.

[benjammun]

Russia's been pushing for normal diplomatic relations with the US for years, as has the majority of world opinion in general, that is, except for the one that really counts.

[mikeyystyles]

I think you're misled on a lot of these points.

I'm really not. Its not rocket science. I have a History degree, studied Soviet History and American relations. I could have wrote 20,000 words and still wouldn't be able to fully explain everything. Running a country is a lot like running a business. You have ups and downs. You do whatever is best to sell your product. You take advantage of certain situations.

[FScott]

I'm really not. Its not rocket science. I have a History degree, studied Soviet History and American relations. I could have wrote 20,000 words and still wouldn't be able to fully explain everything. Running a country is a lot like running a business. You have ups and downs. You do whatever is best to sell your product. You take advantage of certain situations.

I could have mistaken your post for that of a five year olds. Maybe you have been away from the university for too long?

[mikeyystyles]

I could have mistaken your post for that of a five year olds. Maybe you have been away from the university for too long?

This is exactly why I hate these threads. The insults people make are ridiculous. I never once tried insulting someone. I was explaining how I felt from my point of view, from my prior knowledge. I never said it had to be right. Its a forum to post opinions.

[FScott]

Putin is a smart guy, he has great relations with Bush.

That is not an opinion. That is a false statement. In terms of the "great" relationship.

[mikeyystyles]

That is not an opinion. That is a false statement. In terms of the "great" relationship.


I guess you must know the guy personally. In that case why are you wasting my time, go hang out with him. Take a hike.

[FScott]

I guess you must know the guy personally. In that case why are you wasting my time, go hang out with him. Take a hike.

No, see "Whatever personal word or assurance there might have been between them has been eroded," said James Collins, a former U.S. ambassador to Moscow. There is no more "soul gazing" between Gw and former President Putin.

So in that case, perhaps you should have spent more money and invested in a better education.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

I could have mistaken your post for that of a five year olds. Maybe you have been away from the university for too long?

This coming from the guy whos original post was "kill yourself"... grow up.

[FScott]

This coming from the guy whos original post was "kill yourself"... grow up.

Are you done.

[open mind]

My thoughts on Russia: Russia became a super power in the early to mid 20th century based on flexing their muscle and scare tactics. They used scare tactics with their own people and killed many (so they say). Russia since then has always tried to stay relevant in the world. Some Historians feel that Russia had help from the U.S. government in making them seem more powerful and scary then what they really are. Someone once used an analogy that seems to fit what Russia really could be.. "All Russia is is rust, with a fresh coat of paint over it". Meaning everything on the outside looks great but underneath their is nothing valuable. The long and short of it is, Russia has become weak due to their declining economy. However recently Russia has seen a slight improvement and they are taking advantage of this by Flexing their muscle once again. They want it to seem that times are way better then they appear. Can't blame them. However I'm sure their intentions aren't world dominance. Putin is a smart guy, he has great relations with Bush. Bush is on his way out, Putin see's this and makes his move. Anyway I'm more or less rambling. History repeats itself.

i don't see how sacrificing the greatest number of people to defeat the nazis is just muscle flexing and scare tactics.
killed many? that's an incredible understatement when the statistic most commonly thrown around is that stalin killed 50 million of his own people.
i lived in russia back during the mid 90's (when the economy was truly in the shitter there) and everyone i've talked to that lives there now and/or gone to visit can't deny that things are way better then they were back then.
russia isn't flexing it's muscles just to flex them, from the time the soviet union collapsed to now the american government has taken the stance that since they are no longer a super power we can pretty much do whatever we want to them and expect them to sit still and take it like the rest of the word has to....which has caused widespread resentment and now a decision on the russians part to draw a line in the sand.
russia has alot of natural resources so saying they have nothing of value to offer is untrue.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

Some pre-released quotes from Rice's speech tomorrow:

“What has become clear is that the legitimate goal of rebuilding Russia has taken a dark turn with the rollback of personal freedoms, the arbitrary enforcement of the law, the pervasive corruption at various levels of Russian society and the paranoid, aggressive impulse, which has manifested itself before in Russian history,”

So far only Nicaragua has joined Russia in recognizing the two as sovereign nations, as has Hamas (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/hamas/index.html?inline=nyt-org), the Palestinian (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/p/palestinians/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) faction that controls Gaza. Ms. Rice mocks Russia’s diplomatic efforts in her remarks. “A pat on the back from Daniel Ortega (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/daniel_ortega/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and Hamas is hardly a diplomatic triumph,” she says, referring to Nicaragua’s president.

In unusually blunt language, she criticizes “a worsening pattern of behavior” that has made Russia “increasingly authoritarian at home and aggressive abroad.” While she places some blame on Georgia for attacking South Ossetia, Ms. Rice describes Russia’s response as “what, by all appearances, was a premeditated invasion of its independent neighbor.”


So now we're mocking Russia and accusing them of pre-meditating the attack. Russia now pretty much has to respond with equally harsh words, and then we have to get them back with some harsher words...

Either Russia or us eventually has to make some concessions or we're right on track for resuming the cold war.

[open mind]

Some pre-released quotes from Rice's speech tomorrow:

“What has become clear is that the legitimate goal of rebuilding Russia has taken a dark turn with the rollback of personal freedoms, the arbitrary enforcement of the law, the pervasive corruption at various levels of Russian society and the paranoid, aggressive impulse, which has manifested itself before in Russian history,”

So far only Nicaragua has joined Russia in recognizing the two as sovereign nations, as has Hamas (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/hamas/index.html?inline=nyt-org), the Palestinian (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/p/palestinians/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) faction that controls Gaza. Ms. Rice mocks Russia’s diplomatic efforts in her remarks. “A pat on the back from Daniel Ortega (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/daniel_ortega/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and Hamas is hardly a diplomatic triumph,” she says, referring to Nicaragua’s president.

In unusually blunt language, she criticizes “a worsening pattern of behavior” that has made Russia “increasingly authoritarian at home and aggressive abroad.” While she places some blame on Georgia for attacking South Ossetia, Ms. Rice describes Russia’s response as “what, by all appearances, was a premeditated invasion of its independent neighbor.”


So now we're mocking Russia and accusing them of pre-meditating the attack. Russia now pretty much has to respond with equally harsh words, and then we have to get them back with some harsher words...

Either Russia or us eventually has to make some concessions or we're right on track for resuming the cold war.

rice isn't totally wrong.....but man oh man does the official government line on russia reek of hypocrisy.

[Skadrist]

My thoughts on Russia: Russia became a super power in the early to mid 20th century based on flexing their muscle and scare tactics. They used scare tactics with their own people and killed many (so they say). Russia since then has always tried to stay relevant in the world. Some Historians feel that Russia had help from the U.S. government in making them seem more powerful and scary then what they really are. Someone once used an analogy that seems to fit what Russia really could be.. "All Russia is is rust, with a fresh coat of paint over it". Meaning everything on the outside looks great but underneath their is nothing valuable. The long and short of it is, Russia has become weak due to their declining economy. However recently Russia has seen a slight improvement and they are taking advantage of this by Flexing their muscle once again. They want it to seem that times are way better then they appear. Can't blame them. However I'm sure their intentions aren't world dominance. Putin is a smart guy, he has great relations with Bush. Bush is on his way out, Putin see's this and makes his move. Anyway I'm more or less rambling. History repeats itself.

Russia is the second largest oil producer in the world, Russia is only really starting to tap the resources in Northern Siberia. In simple terms the recent war in South Ossetia shows that the US is a lot weaker than it was ten years ago and that Russia is a lot stronger, but it shouldn't take to much sense to figure that one out.

[mikeyystyles]

No, see "Whatever personal word or assurance there might have been between them has been eroded," said James Collins, a former U.S. ambassador to Moscow. There is no more "soul gazing" between Gw and former President Putin.

So in that case, perhaps you should have spent more money and invested in a better education.

Whatever you say man. You must know everything.

[mikeyystyles]

i don't see how sacrificing the greatest number of people to defeat the nazis is just muscle flexing and scare tactics.
killed many? that's an incredible understatement when the statistic most commonly thrown around is that stalin killed 50 million of his own people.
i lived in russia back during the mid 90's (when the economy was truly in the shitter there) and everyone i've talked to that lives there now and/or gone to visit can't deny that things are way better then they were back then.
russia isn't flexing it's muscles just to flex them, from the time the soviet union collapsed to now the american government has taken the stance that since they are no longer a super power we can pretty much do whatever we want to them and expect them to sit still and take it like the rest of the word has to....which has caused widespread resentment and now a decision on the russians part to draw a line in the sand.
russia has alot of natural resources so saying they have nothing of value to offer is untrue.

I'm commenting back with another question. Did they not use scare tactics with their own people?

[wesgemm08]

This just further proves the point that this adminstration should have been impeached long ago. All of them. We are in what many experts feel is the worst economic crisis since the great depression. Do they sack up and talk to the American public about all these financial institutions going under? Nope, let's talk about Russia instead.

[open mind]

I'm commenting back with another question. Did they not use scare tactics with their own people?

you're going to have to a bit more specific with your question.

[fuller]

"We begin bombing in 5 minutes"

[wesgemm08]

President Bush to deliver economic speech.. 10:10 eastern time.

[wesgemm08]

The Dow opens up 130 points.. Until Bush speaks at 10:10