SoggY ThE OnE
09/20/08, 12:18 PM
Okay, I have been playing guitar for about 6 months now. And i will admit i have slacked off a lot, so i am probably not as good as what i should be. Anyways, I need help with music theory. I am starting to play bass in a jackoff "we don't take this seriously, but we do" sort-of-band. And everytime i am at practice they tell me to play in the same key as them. So i just look at where their fingers are at on the fretboard and play my simple root notes. But I hate doing that! So my question is, can someone please explain to me this whole "key" concept.
I would greatly appreciate any/all help.
thanks.
Hainzey X
09/20/08, 12:58 PM
Okay, I have been playing guitar for about 6 months now. And i will admit i have slacked off a lot, so i am probably not as good as what i should be. Anyways, I need help with music theory. I am starting to play bass in a jackoff "we don't take this seriously, but we do" sort-of-band. And everytime i am at practice they tell me to play in the same key as them. So i just look at where their fingers are at on the fretboard and play my simple root notes. But I hate doing that! So my question is, can someone please explain to me this whole "key" concept.
I would greatly appreciate any/all help.
thanks.
i really would like to know more about the concept of playing in a key and such. i don't really get it.
The Boathouse
09/20/08, 10:31 PM
OK. This is worth addressing. You NEED to be able to play in the same key as your band, haha! I'm going to explain this and probably oversimplify it a bit.
The key of a song is based what notes, if any, are sharp or flat in the song. The keys are divided in several ways. There are major keys, based on major scales (I will explain that later in the post) and minor keys, which are based on minor scales (again, later in the post). The name of a key, such as "F major," means that the F major scale is the basis of the song. The note "F" is the tonic (fundamental pitch, starting pitch, etc) of the key, and thus the song.
The keys are also grouped according to whether they have sharps or flats that make them what they are.
Here are the keys:
The key of C Major has no sharps and no flats. The key of A Minor has no sharps or flats. (I will explain this relationship later).
Major keys based on flats (little "b" symbols)
F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb
Minor Keys based on Flats
D, G, C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab
Major keys based on sharps (little "#" symbols)
G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#
Minor Keys based on Sharps
E, B, F#, C#, G#, D#, A#
Now, on we go to explaining scales.
First: The space between notes is called an "interval". The interval is made up of one or more "half steps". A half step exists between the notes C and C#, or B and C (there is no B#), or E and F (again, no E#). The notes B# and E# are enharmonically C and F, and in some keys with many flats or sharps, notes such as Cb and Fb (B and E, respectively) exist by using an accidental (A flat or sharp symbol) on notes that cannot be flatted or sharpened like normal notes. The half step is the smallest interval used in western music. A whole step is two half steps. An example is from G to A, or from F# to G#, or from E to F#.
Major scales are based on this pattern: Take the first note of the scale, which is the name of the key, and follow this pattern of intervals (whole steps and half steps): whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half.
Minor scales are based on this pattern: Take the first note of the scale, like the above, and follow this pattern of intervals: whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole
A good way to find what key you're in, in MOST cases in simple song writing, would be to say, "What is the first chord of the song?" or simply ask what key you are in. If you ask "what is the first chord?" and they reply, "C major", then you are most likely in the key of C major, and it would be a fair assumption to make. It may be wiser to ask them what key you are in, though, and then you can be sure. To "be in the same key," you must be able to make sure you are using the scale of that key, meaning, you do not play notes OUTSIDE the scale of the key.
To explain this here is the C Major scale:
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
Here is the F major scale
F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F
You can see, by counting the half and whole steps, that these adhere to the patterns I showed you above. You also see how the one flat in the F major key is applied. It is applied to the B, making it a B flat.
Minor keys are related to major keys. This is how the key of A Minor AND C Major both contain no sharps or flats. A Minor is the "Relative minor" of the key of C Major. This means that it uses the SAME key signature, but starts on a different note, the note that would allow you to construct a minor scale by following the pattern I gave you above. The easiest way to find the relative minor of the key you are in, if it is a major key, is to count three half steps backwards from the name of the major key. So, for example, the key of F major has a relative minor key. That minor key is D minor. D to D#, D# to E, E to F: Three half steps! If you are playing in a minor key, then, to find your relative major, just count three half steps UP, instead of down.
Now, you said that you find the key by playing in the same positions as your band mates. The reason this works is that on a guitar and bass neck, each fret is one half step. The strings of a guitar are E-A-D-G-B-e in standard tuning. The notes of a bass are E-A-D-G in standard tuning. On bass, then, playing your lowest string without using any frets provides the note E. If you hold down on the first fret, you get F, the second fret is F#, and so on. Watching their hands has given you, at least, the right root notes. Growing as a musician will require that you learn where all of the notes are located anywhere on the neck, it's relatively easy once you understand the half step per fret concept.
It is worth noting that flats and sharps are not totally unrelated. The note C# is enharmonically the same as Db. This means that C# and Db sound EXACTLY the same, because they are, effectively, the "same" note. How you refer to the note is dependent on what key you are in. If you are using a sharp key signature, then you will call the note C#, if the key signature is based on flats, it will be called Db. Making sure you know your keys and how each one is made (whether using sharps or flats) will make communicating with bandmates much easier. Understanding that F# and Gb are the same will make it far easier for everyone to talk out things like "chord progressions."
This is where I talk about chords.
A chord is constructed by putting more than one note together and playing them at the same time. Western music is generally constructed by using major, minor, and diminished chords, with chords such as dominants, suspended, seventh, ninth, etc all coming into play after the fundamental building blocks, the major or minor chord, is first constructed. The major, minor, and dimished chords are generally "triads," or three note groups played simultaneously. Sevenths, 9ths, and suspended chords use MORE than three notes.
A major chord is constructed as follows: take your "root note," or the basis of the chord, and count up four half steps from it. Then, from that note, count up three half steps. This will yield a major chord.
Example: F Major: F - A - C.
A minor chord is constructed as follows: take your "root note," and count up three half steps. From that note, count up four half steps. This will yield a minor chord.
Example: A minor: A - C - E.
A diminished chord is constructed as follows: take your root note, and count up three half steps. Then, count up three half steps from that. This will yield a diminished chord.
Example: B diminished: B - D - F.
The chords present in a key are determined by what notes are present in that key, and how they pile on top of each other. As you can see, the chord F major contains notes found in the key of F major. Likewise, the A minor chord possesses notes found in A minor. There is no diminished key. Diminished chords are found by using notes within a major or minor key, and I wil explain this further.
Each note of a key can be built into a chord. These chords, which I call the "reference triads" of the key or scale, are the building blocks of chord progressions. The chords have a specific nature in each scale, based on how the chords are built by using the patterns, and the notes available in a key. I will write the pattern for chords in each key below.
Major Keys
Major (I), Minor (ii), Minor (iii), Major (IV), Major (V), Minor (vi), Diminished (vii)
Example: Key of C Major - C Major, D Minor, E Minor, F Major, G Major, A Minor, B Diminished
Minor Keys
Minor (i), Diminished (ii), Major(III), Minor(iv), Minor(v), Major(VI), Major(VII)
Example: Key of A Minor - A Minor, B Diminished, C Major, D Minor, E Minor, F Major, G Major
The numerals in parentheses are my best attempt at roman numerals on the internet. They're helpful when discussing chord progressions, or the series in which chords are played in a song.
A simple chord progression in the key of C is: C - F - C - G
This is a simple progression recognizable in all keys as a I-IV-I-V progression. All the chords are major chords.
Other simple progressions include: I-V-vi-IV or ii-V-I or I-vi-IV-V
That's the basics that I'm remembering, and I'm getting a bit distracted by something right now, so whatever fundamentals I'm inevitably forgetting, someone else please post if I don't get back to edit this before you read it.
Hope that helped a little.
porttheman
09/20/08, 11:19 PM
Okay, I have been playing guitar for about 6 months now. And i will admit i have slacked off a lot, so i am probably not as good as what i should be. Anyways, I need help with music theory. I am starting to play bass in a jackoff "we don't take this seriously, but we do" sort-of-band. And everytime i am at practice they tell me to play in the same key as them. So i just look at where their fingers are at on the fretboard and play my simple root notes. But I hate doing that! So my question is, can someone please explain to me this whole "key" concept.
I would greatly appreciate any/all help.
thanks.
http://images.bestwebbuys.com/muze/books/80/9780764578380.jpg
this book really helped me out,its got everything youll need for writing music..good luck
KeasbeyMornings
09/21/08, 03:15 PM
Bass lines for dummies:
First of all, learn the musical scale. Then find out what chord progressions are for each song.
What to play over chords:
Major chord - I, III, V
Minor chord - I, iii, V
Dimished chord - I, iii, v
Augmented chord - I, III, vi
Suspended second - I, II, V
Suspended fourth - I, IV, V
Dominant seventh - I, III, V, vii
Major seventh - I, III, V, VII
Minor seventh - I, iii, V, vii
Minor/major seventh - I, iii, V, VII
Half-diminished seventh - I, iii, v, vii
Dimished seventh - I, iii, v, VI
Really, you won't need to know any chords besides major and minor triads, so I'll give a more detailed explanation about those.
Major triad
Let's say that the chord is C major. The root is C, the major third is E, and the major fifth is G. If the chord is G-flat major, the root is G-flat, the third is B-flat, and the fifth is D-flat. It's as easy as that.
Minor triad
Let's say that the chord is C minor. The root is C, the minor third is E-flat, and the major fifth is G. Basically, you take the major triad and bring the third down a half-step (in your case, a fret). If the chord is E-flat minor, the root is E-flat, the minor third is G-flat, and the fifth is B-flat.
Now, you can get by playing nothing but notes of the chord, but for a more skilled bassline, you can employ passing tones. Passing tones are notes that aren't in the chord. They're named as such because you can "pass" over them, but not hover on them. While with a C major chord, you can sustain on a C, E, or G, you would want to pass over a note such as a B or F.
A pretend bassline on a C major chord could be this:
C E G E-D-C...
Notice how you move from the E to C, only playing the D for a fraction of the time you gave the other notes.
I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense, but it would take hours to fully explain someone this.
vBulletin v3.6.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.