Evolution in the South

[richter915]

I hate the South so fucking much.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20050113/ap_on_re_us/evolution_stickers

why did they have those retarded stickers in the first place...I don't care if they say it's to support tolerance...that's pure bible-mind-washed bullshit...if the kid can't figure out that the THEORY of evolution is a THEORY...he should be shot because the kids he has with his sister will surely be deformed.

thank god there are some people with common sense down there. Hopefully it'll stay this way.

[venus/bacchus]

I honestly don't see what's wrong with the stickers, in fact, I thought they were "anti-Creationism"

It reads: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

That's pretty much a slap in the face of most bible thumpers, saying that they don't have open minds, and that they aren't willing to critically analyze anything that's opposite of their biased beliefs. Like I said, the stickers seem like a bid to somehow gets some hardline Christians to open up a bit and realize that evolution does not disprove God.

[osunfg]

then to stop their bitching they should just throw another sticker on there that says 'creationism is a theory, not a fact'. everybodys happy, the end.

[aminorthreat55]

Its the "theory of evolution" anyways, fucking idiots.

[richter915]

then to stop their bitching they should just throw another sticker on there that says 'creationism is a theory, not a fact'. everybodys happy, the end.
ya but to these stupid ass bible-mongers...creationism IS fact...we're all descendants of adam and eve who lived in a garden with talking snakes and apples that'll fuck you up.

[mondeoman]

I think the sticker is pointless in the first place.

But I don't really see it as pro-creationism or anti-creationism. I think it's just really stupid.
Hey Teej I was gonna ask if this is in your area. I forgot what county Alpharetta is in.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is. I don't think the stickers should have been there in the first place but they don't seem to be that bad.

I also think that Creationalism should not be discussed in schools but I don't think Evolution (which I fully believe in) should be presented as fact. Just for the reason that it will alienate people. The point of a Biology class is to dicuss Biology not religion. In my Biology class my teacher explained that while people have different ideas about how man came to be this is what scientists believe and this is what is gonna be taught. And I liked that approach.

[richter915]

"the textbooks presented evolution as fact."
That's my main problem.
I don't know of any books that say that evolution is fact...whenever I study evolution...it's clearly stated as the "theory" of evolution...also...maybe they feel that evolution is portrayed as fact because there's so much overwhelming evidence for it? almost any other idea such as creationism lacks evidence...there're so many things that support evolution so maybe these people worry too much that their precious ideas might not make sense at all.

I have one question to creationists...if all life that we see on earth today is "perfect" why is it that we see differences within a single species? if all life is perfect, shouldn't everything look the same?

[venus/bacchus]

To be technical, science never claims anything as "fact"

There are only theories that are supported or unsupported

[apex]

Its the "theory of evolution" anyways, fucking idiots.

you don't sound like you could hold up more than two seconds in an argument, so if you'd like to follow that up that'd be great.
Evolution by natural selection, the central concept of the life's work of Charles Darwin, is a theory. It's a theory about the origin of adaptation, complexity, and diversity among Earth's living creatures. If you are skeptical by nature, unfamiliar with the terminology of science, and unaware of the overwhelming evidence, you might even be tempted to say that it's "just" a theory. In the same sense, relativity as described by Albert Einstein is "just" a theory. The notion that Earth orbits around the sun rather than vice versa, offered by Copernicus in 1543, is a theory. Continental drift is a theory. The existence, structure, and dynamics of atoms? Atomic theory. Even electricity is a theoretical construct, involving electrons, which are tiny units of charged mass that no one has ever seen. Each of these theories is an explanation that has been confirmed to such a degree, by observation and experiment, that knowledgeable experts accept it as fact. That's what scientists mean when they talk about a theory: not a dreamy and unreliable speculation, but an explanatory statement that fits the evidence. They embrace such an explanation confidently but provisionally—taking it as their best available view of reality, at least until some severely conflicting data or some better explanation might come along.

The rest of us generally agree. We plug our televisions into little wall sockets, measure a year by the length of Earth's orbit, and in many other ways live our lives based on the trusted reality of those theories.

Evolutionary theory, though, is a bit different. It's such a dangerously wonderful and far-reaching view of life that some people find it unacceptable, despite the vast body of supporting evidence. As applied to our own species, Homo sapiens, it can seem more threatening still. Many fundamentalist Christians and ultra-orthodox Jews take alarm at the thought that human descent from earlier primates contradicts a strict reading of the Book of Genesis. Their discomfort is paralleled by Islamic creationists such as Harun Yahya, author of a recent volume titled The Evolution Deceit, who points to the six-day creation story in the Koran as literal truth and calls the theory of evolution "nothing but a deception imposed on us by the dominators of the world system." The late Srila Prabhupada, of the Hare Krishna movement, explained that God created "the 8,400,000 species of life from the very beginning," in order to establish multiple tiers of reincarnation for rising souls. Although souls ascend, the species themselves don't change, he insisted, dismissing "Darwin's nonsensical theory."

Other people too, not just scriptural literalists, remain unpersuaded about evolution. According to a Gallup poll drawn from more than a thousand telephone interviews conducted in February 2001, no less than 45 percent of responding U.S. adults agreed that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." Evolution, by their lights, played no role in shaping us.

Only 37 percent of the polled Americans were satisfied with allowing room for both God and Darwin—that is, divine initiative to get things started, evolution as the creative means. (This view, according to more than one papal pronouncement, is compatible with Roman Catholic dogma.) Still fewer Americans, only 12 percent, believed that humans evolved from other life-forms without any involvement of a god.

The most startling thing about these poll numbers is not that so many Americans reject evolution, but that the statistical breakdown hasn't changed much in two decades. Gallup interviewers posed exactly the same choices in 1982, 1993, 1997, and 1999. The creationist conviction—that God alone, and not evolution, produced humans—has never drawn less than 44 percent. In other words, nearly half the American populace prefers to believe that Charles Darwin was wrong where it mattered most.

welcome to the world of knowing what you're talking about.

also, evolution is taking place all around us. take some time and learn something about antibiotics or medicine in general.

[sunrisehighway]

It's so frustrating because the two theories don't directly contradict each other at all and if you would open your mind a little bit you could easily believe both.

[venus/bacchus]

you don't sound like you could hold up more than two seconds in an argument, so if you'd like to follow that up that'd be great.


welcome to the world of knowing what you're talking about.

also, evolution is taking place all around us. take some time and learn something about antibiotics or medicine in general.
I think I like you

Please stay

Although you'd be better off if you posted your own words as opposed to large quotes all the time (the 2 posts I've seen)

[apex]

I think I like you

Please stay

Although you'd be better off if you posted your own words as opposed to large quotes all the time (the 2 posts I've seen)

Well I figured it would make sense to post this article because I was reading it the other day and it had a large section on why evolutions not just a dreamy theory, depsite the name, and his post reminded me of it.

[richter915]

It's so frustrating because the two theories don't directly contradict each other at all and if you would open your mind a little bit you could easily believe both.
but evolution has so much more evidence to support it...that's why I believe it more than creationism or any other theory.

[sunrisehighway]

but evolution has so much more evidence to support it...that's why I believe it more than creationism or any other theory.

But they don't contradict each other? Let's say we came from Apes - why could God not have created apes? Let's say the apes came from fish- why could got not have created the fish? Let's say we came from single-cells - why could God not have created single-cell organisms?

Genisis creationism is obviously false, but it is not meant to be taken seriously, it is just a fable and anyone with a brain knows that.

For the record I don't believe in God, I just never understand this debate.

[ahatruck123smak]

It's so frustrating because the two theories don't directly contradict each other at all and if you would open your mind a little bit you could easily believe both.

that's exactly what i do believe. BOTH. i think god created everything necessary for evolution to take place. so in escense he created the world. but i do believe that evolution happened. i stand with my belief because i am christian and i definetly believe in god but also in evolution and this beleif that i stated above is very believable which gives me reassurance. im not sure what u all think and im certainly not telling u what to believe just my opinion that sounds good to me

[ahatruck123smak]

but evolution has so much more evidence to support it...that's why I believe it more than creationism or any other theory.

well the reason ppl believe in creationism is really one word. faith. i can see u r not too involved in a religon because basically all religons rely on that. u have to believe w/o really seeing proof that something is real. not telling u what to believe or anything like that tho just my opinion

[LoyalSubject]

I don't believe in God, Evolution is a theory but it is a theory that has been proven over and over again. Unlike the Bible. Where do you think Alligators came from. Obviously they came from Dinosaurs. There are a thousand other points to bring up but that would take forever. About the Schools, they just need to accpet the fact that they don't know everything just because a book says they do. I believe that students should be taught everythingand allowed to decide for themselves and if they want to learn about religion they can do it on their own time at home.

[scitsofreaky]

Another problem with creattionism is that it teaches that man has existed as long as any other animal, when there is no evidence showing this (and never will be). Also, the Bible gives two different accounts that contradict eachother, and they are both in Genesis 1!
I too believe both, to some extent. There is evidence showing that the universe did have a start, so something had to start it, and what ever that force was, I call "God". I see the order in the universe and I interpret that as evidence that "God" had some sort of intelligent design.

[LoyalSubject]

Not all dinosaurs were land animals, just because the earth was frozen does not mean the oceans were.

[LoyalSubject]

Where are the fossils to this amazing creature?
...

[LoyalSubject]

And for the Alligator question. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/supercroc/

[LoyalSubject]

Ya that is definately a croc.
A Prehistoric Croc.

[venus/bacchus]

The most intriguing observation for the belief in both ideas is the fact that you may support the theory of evolution, but you have no way of saying that God had no hand in its progress

[richter915]

Where are the fossils to this amazing creature?
as loyal subject as shown...the t-rex (or any land dinosaur) did not turn into crocs...there were massive crocodillian ancestors as well as the ancestors of sharks who lived through the dinosaur eras, through the ice age, and have evolved into the "smaller" versions we see now. what I find more amazing is how dinosaurs evolved into birds (ever notice how the legs/feet of birds resemble the scales on reptiles?)

[richter915]

But they don't contradict each other? Let's say we came from Apes - why could God not have created apes? Let's say the apes came from fish- why could got not have created the fish? Let's say we came from single-cells - why could God not have created single-cell organisms?

Genisis creationism is obviously false, but it is not meant to be taken seriously, it is just a fable and anyone with a brain knows that.

For the record I don't believe in God, I just never understand this debate.
that's not creationism...creationism (maybe also known as essentialism, not sure) is the belief that god created all life at once and all life was perfect and has not changed since. The evidence that disproves this is overwhelming and it's just annoying how the "faithful" disregard this evidence. We know that world is not 6000 years old like said in the Bible...we know that things change slowly over time as shown by fossils. Also, you don't have a strong understanding of evolution because if you believe that "we came from Apes" then there would be no more Apes around...

the point of this debate is one...mixing church into the educational system...although they are not forcing children to believe one way or another...by wanting to have those stickers, these Southerners show more skepticism towards evolution which would make creationism more believeable to their kids...If you wanna "brainwash" your kid at home with your Bible studies, go ahead...but at a public institution...as said in the simpsons "god has no place within these walls".

[richter915]

Who is to say something has to look the same in order for it to be perfect?

My turn for a question: Missing links?
if humans are "perfect" then why do we see differences among humans...shouldn't all humans possess the same capabilities, mentally and physically? The fact that you see differences among people shows that some people posses qualities which may be "better" than others. This disproves creationism because that says all life is perfect and there should be no differences within species. According to darwinism and evolution, these "better" characteristics are "advantageous" to survival...some species are more "fit" than others.

what do you mean missing links?

[venus/bacchus]

that's not creationism...creationism (maybe also known as essentialism, not sure) is the belief that god created all life at once and all life was perfect and has not changed since. The evidence that disproves this is overwhelming and it's just annoying how the "faithful" disregard this evidence. We know that world is not 6000 years old like said in the Bible...we know that things change slowly over time as shown by fossils. Also, you don't have a strong understanding of evolution because if you believe that "we came from Apes" then there would be no more Apes around....
I completely agree with you (for the most part), although creationism is simply the belief that a deity created the universe and all life, it isn't any more complicated than that. So the two theories are not at odds with each other.

Judeo-Christian beliefs are a specified expansion of creationism.

[scitsofreaky]

I think it is due to the fall of man in the garden of Eden.
Why do you think that, there is no evidence, biblical or otherwise, to support this?

[richter915]

Basically reading in between the lines of Genesis 3. He cursed women to have pains during pregnacy, which changes her body, which makes it no longer perfect.
so then you're saying all men should be like Adam? All women should have pains during pregnancy? Women have varying degrees of pain during pregnancy...someone need to be knocked out with drugs and others don't need any at all during labor...

[richter915]

A missing link would be what something would be inbetween evolution.

here is a picture, the missing links would be everything but the first and last figure.
yes but for humans...we have almost all "missing links"...gimme an example of where there are missing links and I bet I can find a logical explanation for it.

[richter915]

yes but for humans...we have almost all "missing links"...gimme an example of where there are missing links and I bet I can find a logical explanation for it.
"logical" as in...follows the work of Darwin and complies with the theory of evolution.

[richter915]

I'm saying we are no longer perfect because of the sin in the garden of eden.
well you're gonna have to explain that to me because I have no idea what you're talking about...explain the sin...explain god's punishment...and then tell me how it relates...then we shall talk.

[scitsofreaky]

Basically reading in between the lines of Genesis 3. He cursed women to have pains during pregnacy, which changes her body, which makes it no longer perfect.
Actually, it says that he will increase her pain, not cause her to have pain. So if you "read in between the lines" (which I don't know what gives you that authority), the pain already existed, therefore she didn't seem to be perfect before she sinned any way.

[Lemieux66]

There are so many logical fallacies in this thread it's amazing

[vikingstrike182]

It doesn't matter whether it happened in the Garden of Eden or not. It matters that humans are born with original sin, and to say that man is a state of perfection at one moment in his early childhood is wrong. The problem that people run into is when they try to take religious explanations and explain science with it. When the gospels were being written towards the end of the first centruy, the writers had no intention of explaining the science that was happening around them. They started writing because they realized that Jesus was not coming back overnight and that they needed to perserve the stories in some form for later generations. Now, the actual creation of the Bible is a different story of itseld. But, when this line becomes blurred and people start confusing it is when things become messed up.
I am a United Methodist and I do not believe that Adam was the first human. Does that make me a bad Christian? No, because that is not the center of the Chrisitan faith. People just have to learn to understand where the faith comes from and that it is not their job to shove it down people's throats. No matter what the Great Comission says, there is a right and wrong way to act out evangelism. (And, no, I do not mean the television version. I mean under the definition of spreading the hope that you have found in your faith with other people.)

[scitsofreaky]

I must point out that I have never seen anywhere in the bible proof of "original sin", and some groups don't believe in it because of this. So, if you do have a vese(s) that does, please let me know.
The problem with not believeing that Adam was the first man is that the Bible says so, and a major christian beleif is that the Bible is infallable.

[vikingstrike182]

I didn't mean to make original sin sound as a belief because that is another view , sorry. The United Methodist Church does not necessarily believe that all of the Bible is infallable. There are many reasons for this. I would say, yes, that is a a wide spread belief but that does not mean that all of us share it.