A Bi-Partisan Problem

[albatross]

We live in a messed up country. One where deregulation and big money and the free market are all starting to screw us at once. And when we start point the finger, we realize we have to point it at everyone... Democrats (under Carter, Clinton), Republicans (Reagan, Bush), the RIAA, the labels... there is no trickle down, the rich lobby to get richer. The rich Wall Street ass clowns get bail outs at the expense of the tax payer, the label gets paid at the expense of the band, the big money bands and promoters get paid at the expense of the fans.

Money begets money begets money...

We need an FDR to reform the problem with Wall Street, and right now, neither Obama or McCain seem to really understand what's going on, probably because their rich friends are calling them and yelling "Bail Out!" so loud they can't hear anything else.

Suddenly, the fringe guys like Ron Paul are looking legitimate... even crazies like LaRouche are sounding more and more sane.

The American people are stupid though, so we'll put up with the verbal diarrhea that is bipartisan bickering between Obama and McCain, and then elect the least shitty of the two options.... hoping and praying that words like "change" or "experience" actually mean something in the long run.

My guess is they wont... our politicians are all bought and paid for by rich people.

[saysmydoctor]

The RIAA did this? Those fuckers.

I'm sorry, but lately, Ron Paul has actually had numerous legs to stand on. I'm totally against the concept of essentially nationalizing the financial industry, but we really don't have any other choice. The other option is allowing these companies to fail and thereby failing the economy. Both outcomes suck.

[albatross]

The RIAA did this? Those fuckers.

I'm sorry, but lately, Ron Paul has actually had numerous legs to stand on. I'm totally against the concept of essentially nationalizing the financial industry, but we really don't have any other choice. The other option is allowing these companies to fail and thereby failing the economy. Both outcomes suck.

I used the music industry reference because this is generally a music industry site, and because the RIAA is basically a lobbyist for big business exploitation... Favoring the side with the money, rather than the average joe. It's the same relationship of Congress and Wall Street... its a disease that's crept into every industry in our country, its masked as free market, patriotic-capitalism. The rich get richer, and when they screw up, the poor pay for it. Because the poor really don't elect anyone... politics and money have been in bed for thirty years, and now they're having a child. A big fat kid named Depression.

I agree, time for a change, a new system of regulation that treats every tax bracket fairly and holds accountable the scum bags that allowed this to happen. We have to protect ourselves FROM ourselves... the enemy is us and the "free market" we trumpeted during the economic boom of the Clinton years. But like I said, its a bipartisan problem... and neither side seems to have the answer, or even knows where we went wrong for that matter.

I'm all for Ron Paul... minus the whole withdrawing from NATO and the UN to maintain national sovereignty. But if we listened to him two years ago, we may have avoided this.

[saysmydoctor]

NATO and UN are useless organizations.

[Jason Tate]

No.

[saysmydoctor]

I don't what you are saying no to, but I'm sure my distaste for those two organizations is part of the minority opinion. I don't believe they are supersovereign organizations, I just think one is the remnants/reasons we are still in a blinding post-Cold War hangover and as for the UN, I don't see why we pour as much money into it. :shrug:

[open mind]

The RIAA did this? Those fuckers.

I'm sorry, but lately, Ron Paul has actually had numerous legs to stand on. I'm totally against the concept of essentially nationalizing the financial industry, but we really don't have any other choice. The other option is allowing these companies to fail and thereby failing the economy. Both outcomes suck.

how do you know the economy would fail if the companies asking for handouts go bankrupt? because government officials have told you? because people who work wall street (and therefore stand to directly benefit from a bailout) have gone on the news and said so?
maybe the economy would go down the shitter if we let these companies reap what they sow.....but i'm not about to trust the people who are screaming that the sky is falling the loudest just because they're the same people who said iraq was about to attack the u.s. and that the economy was a-ok.

another thing about this situation that pisses me off is senators are getting calls from thier constituents and the majority of those calls are anti-bail out.....and the pricks are basically saying fuck the will of the people we're not going to listen to them, we know what's best for america.....which goes to show how little power the average american really has over their government.

[saysmydoctor]

The stock market dropping fooled me.

[timchoke]

The free market didn't screw because we don't have a free market. Faaaaar from it. A true free market, in time, would solve problems like this, though.

Also, if Washington had started to pay attention five years ago, it would have made zero difference. This collapse has been coming for well over 100 years. We have a monetary system that is held up by debt and America's reputation. Our money probably isn't worth as much as the paper it's printed on. Go fiat system!!

[open mind]

The stock market dropping fooled me.

so investors shitting thier pants for one day is proof that hundreds of corporations need to be bailed out?
i'm not really saying that wall street doesn't need help here, but i can't get behind it without being given reasonable, and well thought out arguments on why it does......simple scare tactics piss me off.

[saysmydoctor]

Two days, actually and the companies collapsing is the visible proof. What happened was hinted at when Bear Stearns went under a few months ago, that should have been a hint.

[open mind]

Two days, actually and the companies collapsing is the visible proof. What happened was hinted at when Bear Stearns went under a few months ago, that should have been a hint.

shut the fuck up dude, you're no economic wunderkid so quit acting like you know what's going on any better then me when all you're really doing is just regurgitating the talking points of pundits.

i'm asking for explanations here, not soundbites.

[saysmydoctor]

shut the fuck up dude, you're no economic wunderkid so quit acting like you know what's going on any better then me when you're really just regurgitating the talking points of pundits.

i'm asking for explanations here, not soundbites.
Nice, good arguing points.

[open mind]

Nice, good arguing points.

they have just as much substance as your intellectual theft of the lowest common denominator of information sources......if you auctually demonstrate that you possess some real sound economic knowledge you might be worth listening to.

[Nevuk]

Fuck the GOP - they only wish to agree to the bailout if it permits even more deregulation of the market.

[saysmydoctor]

they have just as much substance as your intellectual theft of the lowest common denominator of information sources......if you auctually demonstrate that you possess some real sound economic knowledge you might be worth listening to.
OH PUHLEASE.

It might not be some lecture, because you are right, I don't know the facts as well as say an economist, but to say that this economic crisis hasn't been ongoing is ridiculous. While, we still have had GDP growth, it has been shrinking (if I remember correctly), unemployment has risen, with nearly 600,000 jobs lost since January and that number is on the lowside, and yes, this current situation was hinted at when Bear Stearns happened. It collapsed and the same thing happened, the Fed Bank in New York bailed it out and JP Morgan bought it up.

It didn't have an effect?: http://www.etftrends.com/2008/03/bearjp.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/aug/04/dowjones.stockmarkets

That was one bank and one drop. This time, it was a two day waterfall of nearly 1000 points.

What happens when these bank collapse? It creates lack of confidence. Do I think this bailout is amazing? No, but I don't see any other options?

[open mind]

OH PUHLEASE.

It might not be some lecture, because you are right, I don't know the facts as well as say an economist, but to say that this economic crisis hasn't been ongoing is ridiculous. While, we still have had GDP growth, it has been shrinking (if I remember correctly), unemployment has risen, with nearly 600,000 jobs lost since January and that number is on the lowside, and yes, this current situation was hinted at when Bear Stearns happened. It collapsed and the same thing happened, the Fed Bank in New York bailed it out and JP Morgan bought it up.

It didn't have an effect?: http://www.etftrends.com/2008/03/bearjp.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/aug/04/dowjones.stockmarkets

That was one bank and one drop. This time, it was a two day waterfall of nearly 1000 points.

What happens when these bank collapse? It creates lack of confidence. Do I think this bailout is amazing? No, but I don't see any other options?

this is what i'm reading.
"blah, blah, blah, you're putting words in my mouth and then going off on needless rants in the hopes that you'll somehow come off as intelligent, blah, blah, blah.

[saysmydoctor]

this is what i'm reading.
"blah, blah, blah, i'm putting words in your mouth, blah, blah, blah."
Awesome. I like how you are implying you have some hitherto unforeseen economic knowledge and are therefore capable of countering the points I'm making, thereby making this an intelligent debate, which I'd much rather have so I can actually understand what the fuck is going on. I don't understand the technical aspects of politics, like the economics. I'm not implying that. But what I am saying is economists have been hinting at this forever and have been saying this would happen since before Bear Stearns.

[open mind]

Awesome. I like how you are implying you have some hitherto unforeseen economic knowledge and are therefore capable of countering the points I'm making, thereby making this an intelligent debate, which I'd much rather have so I can actually understand what the fuck is going on. I don't understand the technical aspects of politics, like the economics. I'm not implying that. But what I am saying is economists have been hinting at this forever and have been saying this would happen since before Bear Stearns.

i'm implying nothing of the sort.....i'm asking for someone to give me detailed, well thought out, and source backed stances......if i wanted to read the shit i hear on the news here.......i'd just watch the news, so kindly stop playing the media's parrot in the hopes of coming off as well informed.

[saysmydoctor]

i'm implying nothing of the sort.....i'm asking for someone to give me well thought out and source backed stances......if i wanted to read the shit i hear on the news here.......i'd just watch the news, so kindly stop playing the media's parrot in the hopes of coming off as well informed.
I'm not playing the media's parrot. What the fuck are you talking about? I'm also not trying to come off as well informed. If I was feigning to be well informed, I wouldn't be also claiming to lack the understanding of what is going on. Please read.

[open mind]

I'm not playing the media's parrot. What the fuck are you talking about? I'm also not trying to come off as well informed. If I was feigning to be well informed, I wouldn't be also claiming to lack the understanding of what is going on. Please read.

haha, ok.....you're a beacon of original thought, and i'm sorry for questioning your wisdom.

don't play the "i don't act like i know more then i auctually do card"........if that were true all of your posts in this thread would have a little disclaimer on how you're no expert.......but you only admitted your relative ignorance on economic issues after i called you out.

[saysmydoctor]

Along with all the other threads concerning, also asking asmolitor for a better understanding but whatever.