War In Iraq - Your Thoughts

[Lueda Alia]

I know we have been over this many, many times, but I am finally doing a paper on this and wanted to ask a pretty general question on the topic. This doesn't have to be a discussion, so you can only state your opinion and leave it at that (if that's what you would like).

Anyway, my main question is: Do you believe that going to/starting a war with Iraq was a good idea?

Whether you answered "Yes," or "No," could you please list the reasons why you think it was or was not a good idea?

Personal stories are always welcome (i.e. if you know/knew someone that was deployed there).

Ps: Please don't reply with just "Yes" or "No." I would like some more insight, if possible. Thank you.

[Machu505]

No, it was not a good idea. It is not America's place to be the world's savior. This war has diminished our standing in the world and the rest of the world sees us. No WMDs, no care.

[boykosaurus]

The way we did it and the time at which we did it...no. We were obviously wrong about WMD, and even wrong on the grounds of a pre-emptive and preventative strike if they had existed (no possibility of directly attacking us at the time). Even the moral argument doesn't stand up to muster. If he was a bad guy we should have taken him out after the first Gulf War and with the help of the international community. Going in alone with lies and poor logistics was one of the worst decisions since Vietnam.

[Lueda Alia]

No, it was not a good idea. It is not America's place to be the world's savior. This war has diminished our standing in the world and the rest of the world sees us. No WMDs, no care.
Care to elaborate on those points?

I mean, I agree with you but I want to know why or how the war has changed the US's standing the world, etc.

[ToMyBetterAngel]

By invading Iraq America has helped to isolate itself in the world. nuclear weapons were not found, so I don't see how the war could be logically justified. However, now that we are already in Iraq, I don't really see any way we can completely pull out anytime soon without the region falling into chaos.

[tambam]

No, I do not believe starting the war was a good idea. First of all, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The US should have gone to Afghanistan to find Osama and his followers who were the ones actually responsible. It just doesn't make sense to go to Iraq, a nation that had absolutely nothing to do with the whole thing, and spend money and resources there. Now the country is extremely unstable with people that aren't even Iraqi running the country. Now that the whole 'weapons of mass destruction' excuse has been proven dead wrong, they need to get out and give the Iraqi people their country back.

[boykosaurus]

If I need to elaborate I'll have to do it later, as I have to be away for a few hours.

[ActionActionFan]

:popcorn:

[Machu505]

Care to elaborate on those points?

I mean, I agree with you but I want to know why or how the war has changed the US's standing the world, etc.

In places such as Spain, approval ratings of Bush are almost the same as approval ratings of the war. The world saw us "cowboy up" and do this for ourselves, now however can they trust us again if we say a certain country is dangerous? The rest of the world now sees us as reckless. Just look at the anti-Bush rallies in Europe.

[Machu505]

No, I do not believe starting the war was a good idea. First of all, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The US should have gone to Afghanistan to find Osama and his followers who were the ones actually responsible. It just doesn't make sense to go to Iraq, a nation that had absolutely nothing to do with the whole thing, and spend money and resources there. Now the country is extremely unstable with people that aren't even Iraqi running the country. Now that the whole 'weapons of mass destruction' excuse has been proven dead wrong, they need to get out and give the Iraqi people their country back.

I concur with this.

[Twizx]

It was a pretty shitty idea. People like making money I guess, what can you do?

[saysmydoctor]

Not good ever.

/essay

[Skadrist]

No, the US reputation in the world has been tarnished perhaps even irreparably. The damage done to Iraq and it's people has been astounding. The US military has been badly mauled as well and the fact that the US is still fighting a two-front war is bad news for any emergency that may pop up. I mean the US had nothing threaten Russia for attacking Georgia nor did they have the moral high ground for attacking the Russian invasion.

Sure Iraq is not as bad as it was a year ago but it can always go back down the same path, I mean the decrease in violence is due to the US bank rolling former insurgents to turn their guns on Al-Qaeda, if anything that showed that the majority of the resistance was indeed nationalist with a religious element to it more akin to the Muslim Brotherhood than al-Qaeda. Not to mention Shia militias puring Baghdad nieghborhoods of Sunnis.

If Iraq does stabilize or continue on it's current path it will most certainly drift away from the sphere of influence of the US and will likely

[tambam]

Going to war was neither a good nor a bad idea for me it was somewhere in the middle. There is a common misconception that the quagmire we have now was inevitable; it wasn't.

Our mistake was dismantling the Iraqi infrastructure and decimating their entire country allowing the insurgents to take hold and win sympathisers. No one in Iraq is willing to stand up for democracy and that is not their fault it's ours. To them democracy is chaos, it is bombs in your backyard, no water in the taps and no money in your pocket because that is what we created with our own stupidity in Iraq.

We did the first part right, Sadamn was booted out asap and that was great. At this point we should have booted out the absolute upper echelon of his commanders but kept his police force, his judges, his teachers, his fireman, his gas, water, electric pipelines and everything else of that nature. We should have retrained them, bribed them and put in democracy at the top. At that point we should have used their oil money to pump money back into their economy creating jobs. So what do we have after all of this? We have a growing economy, we have law and order, we have jobs and all other amenities, the people are happy, realise democracy owns tyranny and we leave while continuing to back their government financially and with advise etc.. for the short term but as people never riot unless they are out of food, shelter and basic needs the government would have suceeded no problem.

This is exactly what we did in West Germany after WWII and it worked a treat.

While the administration that carried it out were idiots the war was a good idea because Sadamn was a bad guy and a strong democratic Iraq could do all kinds of good in the middle east.

Good points.

[Skadrist]

Going to war was neither a good nor a bad idea for me it was somewhere in the middle. There is a common misconception that the quagmire we have now was inevitable; it wasn't.

Our mistake was dismantling the Iraqi infrastructure and decimating their entire country allowing the insurgents to take hold and win sympathisers. No one in Iraq is willing to stand up for democracy and that is not their fault it's ours. To them democracy is chaos, it is bombs in your backyard, no water in the taps and no money in your pocket because that is what we created with our own stupidity in Iraq.

We did the first part right, Sadamn was booted out asap and that was great. At this point we should have booted out the absolute upper echelon of his commanders but kept his police force, his judges, his teachers, his fireman, his gas, water, electric pipelines and everything else of that nature. We should have retrained them, bribed them and put in democracy at the top. At that point we should have used their oil money to pump money back into their economy creating jobs. So what do we have after all of this? We have a growing economy, we have law and order, we have jobs and all other amenities, the people are happy, realise democracy owns tyranny and we leave while continuing to back their government financially and with advise etc.. for the short term but as people never riot unless they are out of food, shelter and basic needs the government would have suceeded no problem.

This is exactly what we did in West Germany after WWII and it worked a treat.

While the administration that carried it out were idiots the war was a good idea because Sadamn was a bad guy and a strong democratic Iraq could do all kinds of good in the middle east.


Absolutely, those points you mentioned led to the rise of the an insurgency that was surprisingly adept and tenacious.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/

The points you made a very true if you have time you should check out the documentary.

[dpatrickguy]

no it was not.

my boss tries to argue that 10 years from now we will look back and say it was the right decision to invade, given that we have now established ourselves in the Middle East to stop Iran from attacking Israel.

[Jason Tate]

-537730020242884002&ei=lK_pSMDXHZjUqAOqg-GZCw&q=robert+greene

[open mind]

the war in iraq was a bad idea in every way possible.
it hasn't improved security.
it has been a money pit.
it has resulted in the death of more then a 100,000 innocent iraqi's
it has resulted in the death of several thousand americans and god knows how many have been wounded.
it has spread the military thin taking away the ability to effectively deter countries from courses of action we find unfavorable.
it has drastically reduced our standing on a diplomatic and moral level.
it has given iran much more power in the region then they had beforehand.
democracy created and enforced at the point of a gun defeats the entire purpose of democracy.
.......and it won't work, the iraqi populace is bitterly divided thanks to rivalries that have lasted for hundreds if not thousands of years, so real political reconciliation (which is vital if the country is going to stay together after we leave) isn't going to happen and iraq's neighbors seeing this situation are going to play divide and conquer to increase thier power.

[open mind]

Going to war was neither a good nor a bad idea for me it was somewhere in the middle. There is a common misconception that the quagmire we have now was inevitable; it wasn't.

Our mistake was dismantling the Iraqi infrastructure and decimating their entire country allowing the insurgents to take hold and win sympathisers. No one in Iraq is willing to stand up for democracy and that is not their fault it's ours. To them democracy is chaos, it is bombs in your backyard, no water in the taps and no money in your pocket because that is what we created with our own stupidity in Iraq.

We did the first part right, Sadamn was booted out asap and that was great. At this point we should have booted out the absolute upper echelon of his commanders but kept his police force, his judges, his teachers, his fireman, his gas, water, electric pipelines and everything else of that nature. We should have retrained them, bribed them and put in democracy at the top. At that point we should have used their oil money to pump money back into their economy creating jobs. So what do we have after all of this? We have a growing economy, we have law and order, we have jobs and all other amenities, the people are happy, realise democracy owns tyranny and we leave while continuing to back their government financially and with advise etc.. for the short term but as people never riot unless they are out of food, shelter and basic needs the government would have suceeded no problem.

This is exactly what we did in West Germany after WWII and it worked a treat.

While the administration that carried it out were idiots the war was a good idea because Sadamn was a bad guy and a strong democratic Iraq could do all kinds of good in the middle east.

germany had a tradition of democracy, the population wasn't bitterly divided against itself, and it's neighbors didn't have a stake in the newly created states failure.

[saysmydoctor]

Going to war was neither a good nor a bad idea for me it was somewhere in the middle. There is a common misconception that the quagmire we have now was inevitable; it wasn't.

Our mistake was dismantling the Iraqi infrastructure and decimating their entire country allowing the insurgents to take hold and win sympathisers. No one in Iraq is willing to stand up for democracy and that is not their fault it's ours. To them democracy is chaos, it is bombs in your backyard, no water in the taps and no money in your pocket because that is what we created with our own stupidity in Iraq.

We did the first part right, Sadamn was booted out asap and that was great. At this point we should have booted out the absolute upper echelon of his commanders but kept his police force, his judges, his teachers, his fireman, his gas, water, electric pipelines and everything else of that nature. We should have retrained them, bribed them and put in democracy at the top. At that point we should have used their oil money to pump money back into their economy creating jobs. So what do we have after all of this? We have a growing economy, we have law and order, we have jobs and all other amenities, the people are happy, realise democracy owns tyranny and we leave while continuing to back their government financially and with advise etc.. for the short term but as people never riot unless they are out of food, shelter and basic needs the government would have suceeded no problem.

This is exactly what we did in West Germany after WWII and it worked a treat.

While the administration that carried it out were idiots the war was a good idea because Sadamn was a bad guy and a strong democratic Iraq could do all kinds of good in the middle east.
We did this, actually, but we also kicked out all the other echelons only to have them replaced months later with the SAME people. But yes, agreed.

Flipsidedly, no. It's not the job of any nation to create a democracy anywhere, no matter what it will do. It is the job of those people to do it.
the war in iraq was a bad idea in every way possible.
it hasn't improved security.
it has been a money pit.
it has resulted in the death of more then a 100,000 innocent iraqi's
it has resulted in the death of several thousand americans and god knows how many have been wounded.
it has spread the military thin taking away the ability to effectively deter countries from courses of action we find unfavorable.
it has drastically reduced our standing on a diplomatic level.
it has given iran much more power in the region then they had beforehand.
democracy created and enforced at the point of a gun defeats the entire purpose of democracy.
.......and it won't work, the iraqi populace is bitterly divided thanks to rivalries that have lasted for hundreds if not thousands of years, so real political reconciliation (which is vital if the country is going to stay together after we leave) isn't going to happen and iraq's neighbors seeing this situation are going to play divide and conquer to increase thier power.
This.

@Eda: My dad actually trains (well did) the very units that went to Iraq, in mortars. But he also taught a class which could called "Counterinsurgency Intelligence" even though the course was called Information Operations. He used to give me his lectures. I wish had them with me.

Also, corollary, is the paper only about the goodness of the idea or can you go beyond that? I think you should provide possible solutions and bring up confessionalism.

[open mind]

-537730020242884002&ei=lK_pSMDXHZjUqAOqg-GZCw&q=robert+greene

i wasn't aware that me and robert greene saw iraq in pretty much the exact same light.....dude is the man.

[Lueda Alia]

I'm writing an actual (long!) essay on the topic. My thesis is going to be something along the lines of the Iraq war being a really bad decision, and I'm going to bring up a lot of points to support it. I have a long list of points/reasons why I believe that it was a bad idea; I was just wondering if there were some extra ones that I may have overlooked. So yeah, I wanted people to list them the same way that Mike (open mind) did, and then elaborate on those points. The latter is not necessary, as I'd still have to look up/research those points, but it would help me understand why people think/believe those things.

I hope I'm making sense because my head is about to explode from this horrible headache that I have.

[Lueda Alia]

i wasn't aware that me and robert greene saw iraq in pretty much the exact same light.....dude is the man.
I plan to watch that video later when I can actually concentrate on it. I'm looking forward to watching it.

[saysmydoctor]

I'm writing an actual (long!) essay on the topic. My thesis is going to be something along the lines of the Iraq war being a really bad decision, and I'm going to bring up a lot of points to support it. I have a long list of points/reasons why I believe that it was a bad idea; I was just wondering if there were some extra ones that I may have overlooked. So yeah, I wanted people to list them the same way that Mike (open mind) did, and then elaborate on those points. The latter is not necessary, as I'd still have to look up/research those points, but it would help me understand why people think/believe those things.

I hope I'm making sense because my head is about to explode from this horrible headache that I have.
Well, if you address solutions, seriously research confessionalism and its effectiveness.

[Lueda Alia]

Well, if you address solutions, seriously research confessionalism and its effectiveness.
I think I may address them only to show how horrible the current strategy is, and that it needs to change.

I wish I could interview your daddy!

[saysmydoctor]

I think I may address them only to show how horrible the current strategy is, and that it needs to change.

I wish I could interview your daddy!
Information Operations is all about KNOWING where you are operating. Knowing the people, how they operate, how they function. Like for instance, in Afghanistan, a man has a gun because it's a cultural necessity. So when these foreigners come in, stealing arms, it's a culture conflict.

[open mind]

Germany had a tradition of democracy, are you serious? They had democracy for 14 years between 1918 and 1932 and that's it, and it was at the time loathed by almost everyone in German society hence why almost no one voted for democratic parties they voted for the conservatives (who wanted a kind of oligarchy), the socialists and later the fascists and communists. Even after Hitler something like 60% of Germans said until to 60's that Germany would still be great under a strong ruler, just without the racism of Hitler.

yeah, i'm serious.
if a countries people create a democracy by themselves i consider that country to have a tradition of democracy, as they've been shown to be open to the idea.....i don't take away all credit just because a strong dictator comes in and destroys the democracy in it's infancy.

[open mind]

Most of those are reasons it was not a success not reasons it was a bad idea in the first place.

....like it's so fucking hard to change key words from present to past tense and vice versa.

[open mind]

Yeah you've clearly never actually read about this. The nation never created democracy. Democracy was thrust upon them by the SDP enpowered by Hindenburg and always had massive issues with the legitimacy and them doing so. Not once in the entire history of the Weimar Republic did the democratic parties (as in those who support parliamentry government) ever collectively have a majority in the Reichstag. Not even in the good times of 1919-1922 or the even better times of 1926-1929 did even half the people in Germany approve of democracy. Doesn't that tell you something? Huh? What percentage do non democratic parties get in America or Britain? Even 1%? I doubt even that. So for well over half of all voters to reject democracy shows clearly that Germany had no democratic tradition and they tried at every opportunity to get rid it until they did with Hitler in the early thirties.

Hitler never just came in either, he was elected by a lot of people and between him, Hindenburg and other rightist parties they had a clear, clear majority in parliament. People never chose democracy in Germany and the rebelled against it on countless occasions and they voted it out. Germany said no to democracy, they were never duped or tricked by Hitler, they knew he was anti democracy and they said yes please.

alright the democracy wasn't created by the people......funny that.....hitler was elected.......that's not evidence of a democracy........they voted democracy out? how is that possible if they didn't have a democracy?

i don't get why you're picking on this one thing anyways....my other 2 reasons for thinking iraq will fail still stand and you're still a intolerable douchebag.

[open mind]

Let's just see about that.



It could have.


It didn't have to be had we not let all the oil fields get destroyed.



Didn't have to happen.



Didn't have to happen.


Didn't have to happen.




Could have greatly increased it if done right.


It could have been a huge embaressment for Iran.



Every democratic revolution in history aside from Spain, Portugal and a few others occured through violence.

A strong government and good prosperous times have always patched up the sectarians, these issues only come out in the bad times.

sure it didn't have to happen, but they were all reasons (except for the great division among the populace) that i had for being against the war originally as anyone with a level head could see that those would be likely consequences.

i'm not sure why you want to do this......you're a fucking idiot that i've done my best to ignore (more or less) i wish you'd do the same.

[Lueda Alia]

Let's just see about that.



It could have.


It didn't have to be had we not let all the oil fields get destroyed.



Didn't have to happen.



Didn't have to happen.


Didn't have to happen.




Could have greatly increased it if done right.


It could have been a huge embaressment for Iran.



Every democratic revolution in history aside from Spain, Portugal and a few others occured through violence.

A strong government and good prosperous times have always patched up the sectarians, these issues only come out in the bad times.
I'm having a hard time understanding your point here. Saying things like, "Could have" "Should have," etc, doesn't change what has already happened.

I'm sure things could have been a lot different, but that's how things are right now.

[open mind]

So basically I'm right, I've studied this for years and you don't know jack about it. Cool. Glad that's out of the way.

Much like the Iraqis (millions of whom voted) they did not choose democracy but they played along.

And I already also disproved your other two distinctions between this scenario and post WW2 Germany. Now there are many valid distinctions between the two, you however (due to your lack of detailed historical knowledge) didn't name them.

yeah, you were right about that, much good may it do you.....you're wrong on the larger issue though.....and it's to bad all that study didn't have any positive effect on your personality.

the people of iraq aren't divided against eachother because of long standing rivalries? iraq's neighbors don't stand to gain from actively provoking a collapse of the iraqi government? when did you prove this again? or are you suggesting that you've proven germany was much the same as present day iraq?

[Lueda Alia]

Because the fact that the war has gone up the shitter does not mean the war was a bad idea like he claimed it means it was executed badly, and there is a massive difference between those two. He is yet to demonstrate how any of the results of the Iraq war were inevitable thus he has failed to justify it being a bad idea, all he has done has been to prove what everyone already knows and that is that it was handled very poorly.
That's kind of what I'm looking for though. Haha let me try this again: Knowing what you know now (and keeping in mind everything that's happened), do you think it was a good decision to invade Iraq?

[open mind]

Because the fact that the war has gone up the shitter does not mean the war was a bad idea like he claimed it means it was executed badly, and there is a massive difference between those two. He is yet to demonstrate how any of the results of the Iraq war were inevitable thus he has failed to justify it being a bad idea, all he has done has been to prove what everyone already knows and that is that it was handled very poorly.

it was a bad idea because everything i mentioned was completely predictable.

[&IllBeTheReason]

We aren't taught anything about this war, and I wish I would read up on it more and know more facts, but it's alot to stomach. If I am wrong about anything, correct me, but do it in a respectful manner, please.

From what I know, it seems like leaders used America's passion and unity post 9/11 to start a war that was slightly irrelevant and wasteful. People are dying for a cause most Americans aren't aware of, and wasting money that we obviously need right now.
I'm not sure of the repercussions pulling out would have right now, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to waste all those lives lost now.

[open mind]

No I proved that Germany had comparable problems.

haha........oooooooohkaaaaaaaaaaaay .

[Lueda Alia]

Has the war been a success you mean? No it's been a clear failure from almost every aspect, I mean we didn't even get to rape Iraq's oil reserves, that's how bad it went.

Could the war have been a success? 100% yes it could for me.
Yeah, that's kind of what I mean. I'm not asking you to ignore everything that has happened and answer the question I asked. I want to know if you think it was a good idea to invade Iraq, knowing what you know now? In the end, was/is it worth it?

[open mind]

By the way Eda I think that's a kind of boring essay topic, I mean who honestly thinks Iraq has been a success? Is Bush himself even saying that anymore?

A far, far more interesting topic is could Iraq have been a success.

good god you're such a twat it's rather unbelievable....is it on purpose or does it just come natural?
everytime i think i can't hate a human being any more then i already do you go and prove me wrong.

[Lueda Alia]

By the way Eda I think that's a kind of boring essay topic, I mean who honestly thinks Iraq has been a success? Is Bush himself even saying that anymore?

A far, far more interesting topic is could Iraq have been a success.
I tried to pick something that's not very controversial, because I'm already on my teacher's bad books. I made some comments about religion a few weeks ago, and I have been paying for it on every assignment. He's an asshole.

I also didn't really want to pick a topic that I wasn't familiar with right now. We've been given only a week to work on a project that's worth 30% of our mark, and that's not enough time to do thorough research on topics that I don't know very well. Add the fact that I have other assignments I need to work on + work. This topic is easy!

[phil19]

no, i dont think it was.
while australias invlovement in the conflict is no-where near as big as the united states, i still disagree with it. it was a pure invasion of a soveriegn country. clear and simple. and there was no real justification for it. a tenous, at best, link to 9/11 and Osama and supposed WMD's does not justify this invasion. people are dying who dont need to be fighting a war they shouldnt be. i only hope that with the coming change in government in the US, the troops are pulled out before more people die. they should leave the country in the hands of its citizens.

[Lueda Alia]

I have now chosen the three main points that I'm going to write about in my paper:

Planning
- Not enough time was given to the UN investigators
- Faulty (or manipulated?) intelligence
- Poor (overall) planning, and no exit strategy (I will also include the failure to really support troops in combat - and I'll make sure to throw in quotes by Rumsfeld in there!)
- No WMD's
- Iraq had no links to Al Qaeda or 9/11

Consequences on our lives:
- More security everywhere; strict safety measures
- Economy is doomed
- Discrimination of Muslims/Islamophobia

Overall Safety:
- Loss of life: Iraqis, Americans, and other people of different nationalities
- Divided Iraq: Civil war within the country?
- Stronger Al-Qaeda; attention was taken away from the real terrorists/war on terror; energized extremists
- London & Madrid bombings

I'll basically use those three main points in my thesis; I'll argue that the Iraq was a horrible idea by explaining all the points I listed. I'm not sure if I'll be able to include all of them, but I'll try to work around it so that I can throw in most of the important ones. To be honest, I feel as though all those points are so important. It's depressing to think about how so many things have gone wrong with the war, and just how much of an influence it has had on everyone's life, whether they realize it or not.

[saysmydoctor]

You forgot Bali?

[Lueda Alia]

You forgot Bali?
I was thinking about that, but was it ever confirmed that it was Al Qaeda? Cause I don't remember.

[saysmydoctor]

They admitted it. I think you should address general 'unrest' in Indonesia.

Also, the islamophobia thing is great.

[boykosaurus]

I have now chosen the three main points that I'm going to write about in my paper:

Planning
- Not enough time was given to the UN investigators
- Faulty (or manipulated?) intelligence
- Poor (overall) planning, and no exit strategy (I will also include the failure to really support troops in combat - and I'll make sure to throw in quotes by Rumsfeld in there!)
- No WMD's
- Iraq had no links to Al Qaeda or 9/11

Consequences on our lives:
- More security everywhere; strict safety measures
- Economy is doomed
- Discrimination of Muslims/Islamophobia

Overall Safety:
- Loss of life: Iraqis, Americans, and other people of different nationalities
- Divided Iraq: Civil war within the country?
- Stronger Al-Qaeda; attention was taken away from the real terrorists/war on terror; energized extremists
- London & Madrid bombings

I'll basically use those three main points in my thesis; I'll argue that the Iraq was a horrible idea by explaining all the points I listed. I'm not sure if I'll be able to include all of them, but I'll try to work around it so that I can throw in most of the important ones. To be honest, I feel as though all those points are so important. It's depressing to think about how so many things have gone wrong with the war, and just how much of an influence it has had on everyone's life, whether they realize it or not.

I don't know how much time you may have for research but I would suggest any of these books for insight.

http://www.kemstone.com/recommendations/fiasco.JPG

http://www.arationaladvocate.com/ghostwars.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1400063523.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.leftbooks.com/store/media/blackwater.jpg

[boykosaurus]

I just realized two of those have to do with 9/11 more specifically. You could just use those to show that the war in Afghanistan should have been the major concern.

[Lueda Alia]

I just realized two of those have to do with 9/11 more specifically. You could just use those to show that the war in Afghanistan should have been the major concern.
Yeah, that's what I mean by, "Took away attention from the real war on terror.." I wouldn't mind reading a book for this project. I actually wanted to, so I'll look into the ones you listed. Thanks.

[PDon11]

Invading Iraq was as atrocious as 9/11.

[brandnizzle19]

we're fucked