Tom Brady...Big Contract?

[AshesAshes]

i just watched The Mort Report on sportscenter i like that guy he seems like a really good guy he probally hasnt done many crimes or any of that bad stuff in his lifetime....anyways..The pats are tryin to sign brady to a extension...so is brady worth a huge Manning like contract??

[somethingyellow]

3 superbowls in 4 years, he definately is worth it. he should be the top paid qb if not player in the nfl. its nice that payton has those records but it doesnt matter if you cant win it, which is everybodys goal in the beginning of the year. i know football is more then just a one player game its a team but with bradys clutch performances in the playoffs and undefeited record in the playoffs it makes him one of the best players in the league easily

[mondeoman]

Yes. I like the videos he shoots of bands. hahaha
No seriously tho. Hell yeah he is. He may not put up Manning style numbers but he has performed extremely well.

[AshesAshes]

Yes. I like the videos he shoots of bands. hahaha
No seriously tho. Hell yeah he is. He may not put up Manning style numbers but he has performed extremely well.
he knows how to win gotta give him that..

[mattie]

I dont think he deserves a manning'esqe contract. I mean he's a good quaterback not great but good. If the pats didnt have that defence i dont think brady would be even close to these joe montana comparisons. If brady had no defence like manning he wouldnt mentioned with montana.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Yes. I like the videos he shoots of bands. hahaha


I love the subtlety. LOL. Love it,

[mat1419]

i think he deserves manning money, just for different reasons. manning puts up record numbers so he obviously warrants the money. the pats design is to use 6, 7, 8 year vets and then shuffle them around and then out when their old. each pat's team that has won a bowl has had different ingridiants, but the same plan. if they're going to keep doing this long term, which it looks like they are, they need the one constant to be the QB. brady's the one guy the organization believes they need in place to win, so based on that, he gets a bigger piece of pie.

he's hot too.

[still_life]

3 superbowls in 4 years, he definately is worth it. he should be the top paid qb if not player in the nfl. its nice that payton has those records but it doesnt matter if you cant win it, which is everybodys goal in the beginning of the year. i know football is more then just a one player game its a team but with bradys clutch performances in the playoffs and undefeited record in the playoffs it makes him one of the best players in the league easily

Oh yeah, those 200 yard and 1 TD performances in the playoffs are so crushing to other teams. If you want to figure out NE's current post-season winning streak, look no further than the turnover difference they've had. That's why they won those games.

He deserves Manning money, if you mean Eli Manning, and you mean an amount like that for an 8 year contract.. Giving him 100 million plus would be ridiculous. He's not even the player that puts them in positions to get to Super Bowls. Why do you think they didn't even make the playoffs in 2002? Because Tom Brady tried to carry the team, throwing the ball more than 600 times. That team's about defense, and they need to spend money on that part.

Their linebackers are falling apart. They released Phifer, Bruschi will be a changed person, and the others are getting old. They need younger and more athletic LB's. They also lost Ty Law and probably will dump Tyrone Poole, because they act like they can go the distance with the crap they have. Cutting Troy Brown wasn't much of a problem, since he was mediocre at each position he played. Though it was a pretty heartless move to not even give a guy that's been in your organization for 12 seasons, and stepped into multiple positions last year to help the team, 2 million dollars. Take out your coordinators who can coach these no-namer's (and Crennel seems to be bringing even more people with him to Cleveland), and this team's in for a rude awakening real soon. It happened to the Steelers, the Cowboys, the 49ers, and it will happen to them.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Not a huge contract, but a good one. He deserves it.

Also, I agree with still life for once. They're gutting the defense that gets them places. I like to think they have some kind of plan, but I haven't seen it yet.

[ThriftWhore]

Only if Belichick is the coach. Without Belichick, he's not as good. He's a system quarterback. It's going to be interesting to see where they go with Weis leaving the offensive coordinator job open, as well.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Only if Belichick is the coach. Without Belichick, he's not as good. He's a system quarterback. It's going to be interesting to see where they go with Weis leaving the offensive coordinator job open, as well.


word.

[mattie]

Only if Belichick is the coach. Without Belichick, he's not as good. He's a system quarterback. It's going to be interesting to see where they go with Weis leaving the offensive coordinator job open, as well.

true that homie g dog1

[BrandNew20]

He deserves a raise, there is no doubt about it, but not Manning money. Manning is the better quarterback, but the Patriots are by far the better team. :animateds

[AshesAshes]

Only if Belichick is the coach. Without Belichick, he's not as good. He's a system quarterback. It's going to be interesting to see where they go with Weis leaving the offensive coordinator job open, as well.
agreed

[still_life]

He deserves Manning money, if you mean Eli Manning

I called this one

Eli - 6 years, $54 million
Brady - 6 years, $60 million

And before everyone ever says it about contract money, read this

"Peyton Manning and Michael Vick were portrayed as the greedy ones when they did their new deals in the past year.

Tom Brady? The talk is he put the team ahead of himself.

Oh, really?

A closer look at Brady's deal might make you think otherwise. Brady signed a six-year deal that is worth $60 million. Manning signed a 10-year deal worth $98 million. Vick signed a 10-year deal worth over $134 million, although many of the last few years are nothing but funny money numbers he'll never see.

Vick will get $37.5 million in bonus money, while Manning received $34.5 million in bonus money and Brady will get $26.5 million. Manning's three-year average -- which is all these contracts usually last until they are torn up and done over again -- is $15.2 million. Vick's three-year average is $15 million, while Brady's is $13.11.

Taking a $9 million roster bonus Manning is due next spring out of the equation for now, Manning gets $34.5 million in bonus money, plus base salaries of $535,000, $665,000 and $1 million in the first three years of his deal for a total of $36.7 million. The $9 million takes it to $45.7 million for the $15.2 average.

Vick's deal is complicated -- he got a $22.5 million roster bonus this year -- but his average of $15 million per season for the first three years is up there with Manning.

Brady gets $26.5 million in signing-bonus money, plus salaries of $1 million, $4 million and $6 million in the first three years for a total of $37.5 million.

So, you see, the deals are similar, the roster bonus next spring excluded.

In terms of cap numbers, Vick's is $7.99 million this year, Brady's is $8.429 million and Manning's is $8.431 million. All three have cap numbers that spike next year. Vick's is scheduled to be $23.3 million, Manning's at $17.6 million and Brady's at $14.4 million. All should have lesser numbers when the cap trimmers work on their deals.

Vick's cap number definitely has to be reworked, while those of Manning and Brady will also likely get done.

So how much difference is there in the three deals? By the way the national media has jumped on this what-a-great-thing-Brady-did mentality, you'd think he had signed on for a $10 million signing bonus and a three-year average of $6 million per season.

Could he have held out for more money? You bet. And that's his mistake. But since he said all along he wasn't going to be a problem at the bargaining table, Brady did a deal that was slightly below market value.

With three Super Bowl rings to none for Vick and Manning, couldn't he have done a better deal, topping Vick, not just getting close to it? A strong argument can be made that Brady deserved to be paid more than both of them.

I tried contacting Don Yee, Brady's agent, for a few words about this talk that Brady didn't play hardball to get the deal he could have, but Yee never called back. I'm sure he can't be happy about the perception that Brady didn't get all that was coming to him.

He did get a good deal, one much closer to Manning's and Vick's than is being portrayed. But leaving money on the table is a bad thing for any player.

It wasn't like he was leaving New England to go to another team in pursuit of more money. The Patriots were never going to let him go. So any deal was with them.

This talk he left money on the table to help the team, while Manning and Vick didn't, is absurd.

Let's face it: All three have huge contracts that will limit their teams' cap flexibility in the coming years. Manning's and Vick's might be a little worse, but not by the amount you'd expect gauging all the talk.

Brady deserved to be in the Vick-Manning neighborhood of contracts, and it can be argued he should top them all.

He is now living in their high-priced penthouse neighborhood, even if many in the media like to paint a picture that he's still living in his starter home."

Only thing wrong there is the part I put in bold.

[btbam > you]

worth every penny of it. 3 superbowls in 4 years says it all. mannings still making more than brady, as are a few other quarterbacks, but they have no rings to show for it, while tom is running out of fingers.

[last light]

this really shouldnt be a question at all. this guy goes out and does the best job of any qb in the nfl throughout the entire season, plays hurt, sick, plays after a death in his family, and plays at the highest level of any qb on the best team in football. he deserves every penny.

[kchubb]

Put half the quarterbacks in the league in Brady's spot and we'd be having the same conversation. The team makes him, he doesn't make the team. Most over rated qb in the league today...

[still_life]

this really shouldnt be a question at all. this guy goes out and does the best job of any qb in the nfl throughout the entire season, plays hurt, sick, plays after a death in his family, and plays at the highest level of any qb on the best team in football. he deserves every penny.

Oh look, the words of a man that doesn't know jack shit about football. Brett Favre has over 200 consecutive starts, has been playing through injuries much worse than anything Brady's had, and he put on a 399 yard, 4 TD performance the day after his father shockingly died. That's just one QB that Brady isn't even close to being on the same level of. And how does Brady play at the highest level? He was 10th in passing yards last year, 6th in TDs, 8th in yards per attempt. That's a fair amount of QBs that were doing more for their team than he did. He's a system QB, not a franchise one, which should be the only QB that gets a big deal. Make him the focus of your gameplan and he'll fail. That's why they couldn't make the playoffs in 2002. He had the typical shitty NE QB season like the guy before him, Bledsoe. Throw over 600 passes and don't even gain 4000 yards from them.

[last light]

Oh look, the words of a man that doesn't know jack shit about football. Brett Favre has over 200 consecutive starts, has been playing through injuries much worse than anything Brady's had, and he put on a 399 yard, 4 TD performance the day after his father shockingly died. That's just one QB that Brady isn't even close to being on the same level of. And how does Brady play at the highest level? He was 10th in passing yards last year, 6th in TDs, 8th in yards per attempt. That's a fair amount of QBs that were doing more for their team than he did. He's a system QB, not a franchise one, which should be the only QB that gets a big deal. Make him the focus of your gameplan and he'll fail. That's why they couldn't make the playoffs in 2002. He had the typical shitty NE QB season like the guy before him, Bledsoe. Throw over 600 passes and don't even gain 4000 yards from them.

i love how angry people get. its a fucking sport. who cares. everyone gets paid huge amounts of money. i love when people that dont play the sport call out professional athletes and say they arent good enough. as long as new england is winning titles they will pay brady as much as he wants. end of story. in other news who really gives a shit how much he makes and whether or not hes worth it.

[btbam > you]

Oh look, the words of a man that doesn't know jack shit about football. Brett Favre has over 200 consecutive starts, has been playing through injuries much worse than anything Brady's had, and he put on a 399 yard, 4 TD performance the day after his father shockingly died. That's just one QB that Brady isn't even close to being on the same level of. And how does Brady play at the highest level? He was 10th in passing yards last year, 6th in TDs, 8th in yards per attempt. That's a fair amount of QBs that were doing more for their team than he did. He's a system QB, not a franchise one, which should be the only QB that gets a big deal. Make him the focus of your gameplan and he'll fail. That's why they couldn't make the playoffs in 2002. He had the typical shitty NE QB season like the guy before him, Bledsoe. Throw over 600 passes and don't even gain 4000 yards from them.

favre has played for 15 years and has one super-bowl title. brady has 3 in four years. i don't care how many things you can say about favre or any other qb in the league. right now, brady is at the top and always finds a way to lead his team to victory.

[still_life]

in other news who really gives a shit how much he makes and whether or not hes worth it.

Obviously everyone that replied or voted here, including yourself. Just don't be mad that you can't back up any of the horseshit you say, so you resort to the old "who cares about this?".

favre has played for 15 years and has one super-bowl title. brady has 3 in four years. i don't care how many things you can say about favre or any other qb in the league. right now, brady is at the top and always finds a way to lead his team to victory.

And the score of Super Bowls for Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostlelter or Joe Theisman or Doug Williams is 1 to the 0 from Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton. So basically, that doesn't mean anything. Brett Favre is better than Tom Brady, always will be. When Favre went to two straight SB's, he was the 3-time league MVP (only player in history to do so). He was the reason they were going to those games. Tom Brady's never even been an afterthought in MVP voting, because he is not that good.

[btbam > you]

Obviously everyone that replied or voted here, including yourself. Just don't be mad that you can't back up any of the horseshit you say, so you resort to the old "who cares about this?".



And the score of Super Bowls for Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostlelter or Joe Theisman or Doug Williams is 1 to the 0 from Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton. So basically, that doesn't mean anything. Brett Favre is better than Tom Brady, always will be. When Favre went to two straight SB's, he was the 3-time league MVP (only player in history to do so). He was the reason they were going to those games. Tom Brady's never even been an afterthought in MVP voting, because he is not that good.


Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostlelter or Joe Theisman or Doug Williams winning 1 super bowl is obviously a fluke. brady winning 3 in 4 years doesn't really seem like a fluke to me.

[still_life]

It's not a fluke. They were surrounded with good players and were good teams. Put them on a bad team, and it'd be a failure. Brady's in the same boat. They've had a good team there ever since he's been the starter. Now take away some of the big components this year, and we'll see what happens and just see how good he is. He's hardly had to do anything so far.

Jim McMahon, not a good QB, led the most dominating team for a single season in football history, to being 15-1 and a Superbowl title. Stick any QB on that team and they still would have won the Superbowl that year. There are many ways to get to the Superbowl, so the QB doesn't always matter.

[btbam > you]

It's not a fluke. They were surrounded with good players and were good teams. Put them on a bad team, and it'd be a failure. Brady's in the same boat. They've had a good team there ever since he's been the starter. Now take away some of the big components this year, and we'll see what happens and just see how good he is. He's hardly had to do anything so far.



look at his record as a starter. even if you have a good team surrounding you, you still need to pull off some shit. a last minute game-winning drive in the super-bowl against the rams for example.

a 57-14 record as a starter is pretty remarkable for someone taken as the 199th pick in the draft.

[last light]

i dont get where anyone said he was better than bret favre...did someone say that..i didnt read through all the responses

[still_life]

look at his record as a starter. even if you have a good team surrounding you, you still need to pull off some shit. a last minute game-winning drive in the super-bowl against the rams for example.

He had almost 90 seconds to set up a field goal attempt against a Ram's defense that was not that great against the pass. It couldn't have been easier (well the Rams could have kicked it out of bounds and put the ball at the 40, like Kasay somehow did indoors in their next SB).

a 57-14 record as a starter is pretty remarkable for someone taken as the 199th pick in the draft.

And going back to Jim McMahon, who once won 27 straight starts at QB. So record as a starter doesn't matter, because games are won and lost by teams. Roethlisberger has the best winning percentage of any QB with at least 15 starts. But no one's going to say he's the best QB.

[btbam > you]

He had almost 90 seconds to set up a field goal attempt against a Ram's defense that was not that great against the pass. It couldn't have been easier (well the Rams could have kicked it out of bounds and put the ball at the 40, like Kasay somehow did indoors in their next SB).



And going back to Jim McMahon, who once won 27 straight starts at QB. So record as a starter doesn't matter, because games are won and lost by teams. Roethlisberger has the best winning percentage of any QB with at least 15 starts. But no one's going to say he's the best QB.

and roethlisberger also choked when it counted.

[still_life]

i dont get where anyone said he was better than bret favre...did someone say that..i didnt read through all the responses

Yeah, you said that

"this guy goes out and does the best job of any qb in the nfl throughout the entire season"

That would make him better than Favre, Manning, Culpepper, etc.

and roethlisberger also choked when it counted.

A rookie QB has no business being in an AFC championship game anyway. Give him credit

[btbam > you]

Yeah, you said that

"this guy goes out and does the best job of any qb in the nfl throughout the entire season"

That would make him better than Favre, Manning, Culpepper, etc.



A rookie QB has no business being in an AFC championship game anyway. Give him credit

neither did brady, and in his first season as a starter, he won the AFC championship game, and the super-bowl.

[last light]

Yeah, you said that

"this guy goes out and does the best job of any qb in the nfl throughout the entire season"

That would make him better than Favre, Manning, Culpepper, etc.



A rookie QB has no business being in an AFC championship game anyway. Give him credit

dude bret favre is one of the greatest qb's ever...i didnt mean brady is better...you cant decide that until both men are retired.

[still_life]

Even though he clearly fumbled the ball and game away in his first playoff game against Oakland. And as for that SB, you can't honestly say he deserved the MVP, because he didn't even have 100 yards passing before that last drive. He was an enigma on that field. Give it to Law for the INT return or Vinatieri for the most pressured FG you can have, which should be the part of that drive that's remembered, not the dink and dunk before it. After all, Scott Norwood's 47 yard miss is one of the most memorable plays in SB history, so should Vinatieri's 48 yard make.

dude bret favre is one of the greatest qb's ever...i didnt mean brady is better...you cant decide that until both men are retired.

You can decide that right now, because it's obvious. Tom Brady will never be as good as Brett Favre, one of the all-time greats for sure.

[btbam > you]

Even though he clearly fumbled the ball and game away in his first playoff game against Oakland. And as for that SB, you can't honestly say he deserved the MVP, because he didn't even have 100 yards passing before that last drive. He was an enigma on that field. Give it to Law for the INT return or Vinatieri for the most pressured FG you can have, which should be the part of that drive that's remembered, not the dink and dunk before it. After all, Scott Norwood's 47 yard miss is one of the most memorable plays in SB history, so should Vinatieri's 48 yard make.

did i even once say anything about him winning super-bowl mvp? that's not the point of this discussion. but if you must bring it up. he does have 2, which is more than any of the current quaterbacks you named.

[still_life]

Then what is the point here? It's about Tom Brady, so anything involving him should be up for discussion. And him somehow getting MVP in that game is a valid discussion.

There are a bunch of one game wonders with Superbowl MVP awards. Larry Brown, Desmond Howard, Dwight Smith to name a few. It's not as hard to win as league MVP, which Manning and Favre have Brady beat.

[btbam > you]

Then what is the point here? It's about Tom Brady, so anything involving him should be up for discussion. And him somehow getting MVP in that game is a valid discussion.

There are a bunch of one game wonders with Superbowl MVP awards. Larry Brown, Desmond Howard, Dwight Smith to name a few. It's not as hard to win as league MVP, which Manning and Favre have Brady beat.



when talking about great qb's, like bradshaw and montana, the first thing that is brought up is superbowl titles, not league mvp's.


players always say that winning a title is the only thing they care about. no other awards matter as much as that. so i'd like to see how everyone you named will stack up to brady.

[still_life]

when talking about great qb's, like bradshaw and montana, the first thing that is brought up is superbowl titles, not league mvp's.

That's because they're the only guys to win 4 of them. When people talk about Marino and Fouts (2 hall of famers), it's all about how amazing they were at the position. Bradshaw had the luxury of a HOF worthy defense (yes, the whole defense), a HOF coach, a HOF RB, two HOF receivers, and countless other amazing players. Montana had Bill Walsh teaching him a new way to excel at the position, and he played perfectly in the Superbowls. Like they say at the end of the NFL Films highlight of the SB where Denver beat Atlanta, when you put a good team around a great player, they win Superbowls. John Elway could never win a SB if he didn't have Terrell Davis on his team. If he would have lost both of those SB's and retired, he wouldn't be much more glorified than Jim Kelly, only guy to lose more Superbowls than Elway.

players always say that winning a title is the only thing they care about. no other awards matter as much as that. so i'd like to see how everyone you named will stack up to brady.

Of course that's all that matters to them. But when you're arguing about who is better at a position, you have to look at the awards and see just how well they perform individually. Brady has yet to show that he's as talented as people I mentioned.

[btbam > you]

by winning constantly, i think that shows he's talented. i don't know what else that shows..

p.s.

you might wanna go here (http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL98/738469/3925749/98903865.jpg).. i'm pretty sure this says it all

[still_life]

"by winning constantly, i think that shows he's talented. i don't know what else that shows.."

You still can't understand it. He's all system, he's there to not screw it up, not to win it. The guys I mentioned (but not Roethlisberger) win games for their teams. They have to, because the other half of their team is ranked at the bottom of the league.

That picture proves nothing, because most of the guys there are in fact better quarterbacks than Brady, just aren't as gifted with a solid team. Peyton Manning's defense was 29th in the league, yet he was able to get them 12 wins, just two less than Brady got for the Patriots. And he had to work much harder than Brady to get to 12 wins.

Here's a question, going back to the level of play of these quarterbacks. What are the chances that Tom Brady's pre-season goals are 4000 yards passing, 70% completions, 40 TDs, and single digit interceptions?

[btbam > you]

"by winning constantly, i think that shows he's talented. i don't know what else that shows.."

You still can't understand it. He's all system, he's there to not screw it up, not to win it. The guys I mentioned (but not Roethlisberger) win games for their teams. They have to, because the other half of their team is ranked at the bottom of the league.

That picture proves nothing, because most of the guys there are in fact better quarterbacks than Brady, just aren't as gifted with a solid team. Peyton Manning's defense was 29th in the league, yet he was able to get them 12 wins, just two less than Brady got for the Patriots. And he had to work much harder than Brady to get to 12 wins.

Here's a question, going back to the level of play of these quarterbacks. What are the chances that Tom Brady's pre-season goals are 4000 yards passing, 70% completions, 40 TDs, and single digit interceptions?


like i said before, who cares about those numbers? mannings goal last season was not to get 40 td's. his goal was to win a superbowl. as was mcnabb's, as was culpepper's. as was anyone else you wanna bring into this.

[still_life]

A Superbowl is a team goal, not an individual one, which is what I'm talking about. On an edition of Sunday Morning countdown more than halfway into the season last year, they had a piece on Manning, and he talked about those as his goals. So I ask you, what are the chances of Brady making individual goals like that for last season?

[btbam > you]

A Superbowl is a team goal, not an individual one, which is what I'm talking about. On an edition of Sunday Morning countdown more than halfway into the season last year, they had a piece on Manning, and he talked about those as his goals. So I ask you, what are the chances of Brady making individual goals like that for last season?

why does it matter? all of these quarterback's will be remembered for different things. brady will be remembered for his many superbowl titles, favre for his streaks and records, manning for his numbers. every quarterback is different.



brady wins 3 superbowls in 4 years, therefore he is worth whatever he gets.

[still_life]

It matters more than everything, because it's a clear reason that Brady doesn't have to perform at the same level as Manning to win, meaning he doesn't deserve the same kind of money.

[/endthread,youlose]

[NetNerdsRevenge]

It matters more than everything, because it's a clear reason that Brady doesn't have to perform at the same level as Manning to win, meaning he doesn't deserve the same kind of money.

[/endthread,youlose]
Since when do you determine the end of threads?

[still_life]

When a post like that is made.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

yes, Tom Brady is worth the money. but i hope if the Pats give him that money, their whole cheap players, good teammates thing goes down the shitter and they crash and burn. I hate the Pats almost as much as I hate the Dolphins and Jets. GO BILLS!!!!

PS....I dont need any jokes about Wide Right or the 4 Super Bowls in a row because I was too young to understand football at that time and therefore, it does not phase me at all.

[The Don]

When a post like that is made.
Still-life, dude I'll be the first to admit you know your stuff when it comes to football. But you make yourself look like an ignorant ass when you make bold statements based only on the fact that you hate a team ... like the Pats.

Once you get past that, I think you'll be able to make more effective arguments and sound a lot more knowledgable.

[btbam > you]

Still-life, dude I'll be the first to admit you know your stuff when it comes to football. But you make yourself look like an ignorant ass when you make bold statements based only on the fact that you hate a team ... like the Pats.

Once you get past that, I think you'll be able to make more effective arguments and sound a lot more knowledgable.

thank you.

[still_life]

The question is if Brady deserves Manning money. I prove with something as simple as pre-season goals that Brady isn't on the same level as Manning, thus doesn't deserve the money, answering the question and whole point of thread. There's nothing left after that, it's over. Not to mention I provided countless other angles to show he doesn't deserve it, and no one else really gave anything worthwhile other than this Superbowl bullshit.

Here's some shocking sports facts for you people. Titles and championships are so important in sports that most people do use them as the way to classify how good a player that is. That is fine, unless you're talking about football. You see, when Shaq dunks the ball on one end of the court, he's going to block or get the rebound at the other end. When Gretzky was done scoring a goal or getting an assist, he was going to the other end of the ice to play defense. When Barry Bonds hits a homerun, he goes back out and makes play in the outfield. When Tom Brady finishes a drive...he sits on the bench. Then he comes back on to do it again. Football is much different from the other three sports. Even in number of players. Hockey, five plus a goalie. Basketball, five. Baseball, 9. Football has two units of 11 guys. It's the ultimate team game, and a Super Bowl title is an ultimate team accomplishment. Tom Brady isn't playing defense after he does the offense. He's only one part of half of a team. Guys like Jordan and Lemieux can win titles on their own, guys like Manning and McNabb can't.

[panic !!]

Blah... I'm not big on Tom Brady, so I voted no.
I'm a Jets kinda girl.

[The Don]

The question is if Brady deserves Manning money. I prove with something as simple as pre-season goals that Brady isn't on the same level as Manning, thus doesn't deserve the money, answering the question and whole point of thread. There's nothing left after that, it's over. Not to mention I provided countless other angles to show he doesn't deserve it, and no one else really gave anything worthwhile other than this Superbowl bullshit.

Here's some shocking sports facts for you people. Titles and championships are so important in sports that most people do use them as the way to classify how good a player that is. That is fine, unless you're talking about football. You see, when Shaq dunks the ball on one end of the court, he's going to block or get the rebound at the other end. When Gretzky was done scoring a goal or getting an assist, he was going to the other end of the ice to play defense. When Barry Bonds hits a homerun, he goes back out and makes play in the outfield. When Tom Brady finishes a drive...he sits on the bench. Then he comes back on to do it again. Football is much different from the other three sports. Even in number of players. Hockey, five plus a goalie. Basketball, five. Baseball, 9. Football has two units of 11 guys. It's the ultimate team game, and a Super Bowl title is an ultimate team accomplishment. Tom Brady isn't playing defense after he does the offense. He's only one part of half of a team. Guys like Jordan and Lemieux can win titles on their own, guys like Manning and McNabb can't.
I don't understand where you're coming from. I understand football is a team sport, and one single player can't do it all himself. However, you don't pay a player money to put up stats. You pay him money to win Super Bowls, and NE has won 3 in 4 years with him as the QB. Now I understand you'll say anyone could do it with NE's team, but that remains to be seen.

Call me crazy, but I'd much rather have a guy who gets the job done, than one who puts up huge stats against sucky teams but stalls when it matters most. I'm paying my money to the guy who can finish.

[still_life]

You don't understand where I'm coming from? Are you ignorant to sports then? All those legends in baseball, hockey, and basketball are two way players. They're always on the field/ice/court. If "defense wins championships", and Tom Brady is never on defense, it's completely irrelevant how many rings he has. Just yesterday McNabb said a QB's greatness shouldn't be measured by SB rings, no matter how much he wants one.

Manning's passer rating in his losses last year was 114.7
Brady's passer rating in his losses last year was 65.9

Even in games they lose, Manning was efficient enough to set a record for passer rating. They don't have the defense to win every game like the Patriots. He also has to face the fact no dome team has ever won a Superbowl. The guy did everything he could for his team last year, and 13-5 was as far as his team could help him. Until they change the rules and have quarterbacks play defense, I don't want to hear about how many rings Tom Brady has been lucky to receive.

I'm paying my money to the guy who can finish.

And who finishes Super Bowls for this team? Adam Vinatieri, Adam Vinatieri, Rodney Harrison.

[Capital H]

I voted yes because Tom Brady is SOOOO hot....





...but really, He helps the team win the games, Brady knows his place and he plays well. Just like Bruschi, Dillon etc. Bellicheck knows how to play these guys and they respond well to it.

[still_life]

...but really, He helps the team win the games, Brady knows his place and he plays well. Just like Bruschi, Dillon etc.

So by saying that, you're saying Bruschi and Dillon deserve contracts just as big. That'd be impossible with the salary cap.

[The Don]

You don't understand where I'm coming from? Are you ignorant to sports then? All those legends in baseball, hockey, and basketball are two way players. They're always on the field/ice/court. If "defense wins championships", and Tom Brady is never on defense, it's completely irrelevant how many rings he has. Just yesterday McNabb said a QB's greatness shouldn't be measured by SB rings, no matter how much he wants one.

Manning's passer rating in his losses last year was 114.7
Brady's passer rating in his losses last year was 65.9

Even in games they lose, Manning was efficient enough to set a record for passer rating. They don't have the defense to win every game like the Patriots. He also has to face the fact no dome team has ever won a Superbowl. The guy did everything he could for his team last year, and 13-5 was as far as his team could help him. Until they change the rules and have quarterbacks play defense, I don't want to hear about how many rings Tom Brady has been lucky to receive.



And who finishes Super Bowls for this team? Adam Vinatieri, Adam Vinatieri, Rodney Harrison.
And who lead the drives to get Vinatieri into field goal range both times?

See, you believe that players like Manning and Brady gets paid based on regular season performance. Who cares what numbers they put up in regular season games because you know both of these teams are guaranteed to make the postseason every year? They're both great QBs with great teams so you already know they will perform well in the regular season. Legends are born in the postseason.

Maybe you should look at relevent stats ... postseason stats. In his last 3 playoff losses, Manning has thrown a total of 1 touchdown, 7 interceptions and had an average passer rating of 45.3.

Brady, as you know and hate, is undefeated in the postseason, so I can't look at his last three postseason losses. But in career 8.5 playoff games (sat out 2nd half of 2001 AFC Championship with injury ... I'm sure you know since they played Pittsburgh) Brady has thrown 3 interceptions. 3 ... that is incredible. Absolutely incredible.

A QB doesn't have to be incredible in the postseason. You just can't make mistakes. Don't give me your bs about Manning not getting help in the postseason. He's killed his team with horrible decisions and and untimely interceptions.

When I said finisher, I didn't mean at the end of the game. I meant during the course of an entire postseason game. And if these QBs dont think they should be getting paid according to their postseason performance then they're about as nieve as you.

[btbam > you]

And who lead the drives to get Vinatieri into field goal range both times?

See, you believe that players like Manning and Brady gets paid based on regular season performance. Who cares what numbers they put up in regular season games because you know both of these teams are guaranteed to make the postseason every year? They're both great QBs with great teams so you already know they will perform well in the regular season. Legends are born in the postseason.

Maybe you should look at relevent stats ... postseason stats. In his last 3 playoff losses, Manning has thrown a total of 1 touchdown, 7 interceptions and had an average passer rating of 45.3.

Brady, as you know and hate, is undefeated in the postseason, so I can't look at his last three postseason losses. But in career 8.5 playoff games (sat out 2nd half of 2001 AFC Championship with injury ... I'm sure you know since they played Pittsburgh) Brady has thrown 3 interceptions. 3 ... that is incredible. Absolutely incredible.

A QB doesn't have to be incredible in the postseason. You just can't make mistakes. Don't give me your bs about Manning not getting help in the postseason. He's killed his team with horrible decisions and and untimely interceptions.

When I said finisher, I didn't mean at the end of the game. I meant during the course of an entire postseason game. And if these QBs dont think they should be getting paid according to their postseason performance then they're about as nieve as you.


a-fucking-men.. i couldn't have put it better myself.

[still_life]

And who lead the drives to get Vinatieri into field goal range both times?

The offense. All he did was dink and dunk in the first one, then they started the drive at the fucking 40 against Carolina. The 40. I will take almost every QB in the league to get me into field goal position when you're starting there. Give me 27 yards and you're good from there. And considering that game was an offensive shootout, that would have been no problem. There was nothing great about either drive other than the pressure kick. He didn't have to get them a TD. He didn't have to drive over 90 yards like an Elway or Montana. There was nothing legendary about the drive.

See, you believe that players like Manning and Brady gets paid based on regular season performance. Who cares what numbers they put up in regular season games because you know both of these teams are guaranteed to make the postseason every year? They're both great QBs with great teams so you already know they will perform well in the regular season. Legends are born in the postseason.

There are 20 teams in the league that don't make the post-season every year. So I guess by your logic, they shouldn't be paid a cent? How fucking stupid. Of course you pay your player for what he does for a year, not a game or two. If you were managing a team's cap with that logic, they'd be cutting every single player that mattered. No team is ever guaranteed to make the playoffs in any given season. Where was NE and St. Louis in 02? Where was Tampa Bay and Oakland in 03? Where was Carolina and Kansas City last year?

"Legends aren't born in the post-season." This isn't the fucking NBA or NHL. Brady and Manning are one guy out of 53 players on a team. Of course only about 30 of those guys will really be used in a game, but still, that's 30 different people that have to do their job. Someone like Shaq is making up 20% of his team, and he can dominate at both aspects of the game. Tom Brady has never made an interception or sack. They say defense wins championships, and it does, by forcing turnovers. Many yards and points are still given up by defenses in the playoffs, you just can't turn the ball over at all, and that's usually why games are decided. That's why NE has won all these playoff games, their turnover ratio is huge.

There are some great stories that can be made in the playoffs, but a lot of times it's from a player that hasn't even had much of a career. Doug Williams, Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Larry Brown, Dexter Jackson, Desmond Howard, Frank Reich, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostleter, Jim Plunkett, and the list goes on. They all did some big things in playoff games, but they're not going to be an afterthought in any Hall of fame voting.

Maybe you should look at relevent stats ... postseason stats. In his last 3 playoff losses, Manning has thrown a total of 1 touchdown, 7 interceptions and had an average passer rating of 45.3

Brady, as you know and hate, is undefeated in the postseason, so I can't look at his last three postseason losses. But in career 8.5 playoff games (sat out 2nd half of 2001 AFC Championship with injury ... I'm sure you know since they played Pittsburgh) Brady has thrown 3 interceptions. 3 ... that is incredible. Absolutely incredible.

You can't even begin to compare the two. In the playoffs, Manning has got absolutely nothing from Edgerrin James or his defense. He has had to try and carry the whole team, and that's just not going to happen when your team is giving up over 150 rushing yards. That eats up clock and wears your team down. The only playoff game where he totally sucked was the AFC Champ. game at NE. The rest weren't his fault. You can try bringing up the Jets blowout, but it was already the 3rd quarter and they were down 27 points before he threw a pick or more than 15 passes. There wasn't anyone on the team that was there to play that day. Tony Dungy is a bad playoff coach, and dome teams do not play well in January. Those are facts he has to deal with.

Meanwhile Brady has got huge team effort in all of his playoff games, and the defense and special teams have forced many turnovers and scored points. Brady's only thrown 3 interceptions because he plays incredibly safe in these games. He dinks and dunks all game, then hits maybe one big pass once he's lulled the defense to sleep. It's sickening to watch. At least they didn't give him MVP for the SB last year, that was not a good performance.

A QB doesn't have to be incredible in the postseason. You just can't make mistakes. Don't give me your bs about Manning not getting help in the postseason. He's killed his team with horrible decisions and and untimely interceptions

You've clearly never watched or read a boxscore of a Colts playoff game. When your defense is ranked 29th and your RB is giving you under 50 yards, you have to be incredible. Find me a NE playoff game where Tom Brady had to play under those conditions. They're completely different teams. There are really only 3 ways to go to the SB, and you should have a combination of 2 of them. A franchise QB or RB, a great defense (by great, I mean ranked in top 8 or 10 in yards and points), and great coaching. The Colts got one of those things, and they need to work on the others. Teams that try to do it with offense don't succeed. 99 Rams were the only ones, but don't forget their defense gave up the 4th fewest points in the league. If Manning had that, he would have already been to the big game. John Elway would have never won a SB if it wasn't for TD, who put up amazing numbers all year round. Marino never had that great RB to compliment him, or a defense that was really great. Bill Parcells has proved that you don't even need a good QB to go to the SB, as long as you are a good coach and have a great defense. And well, look who learned from him, Belichick.

The only "untimely interceptions" Manning has thrown in the playoffs came in the AFC championship game. That's one game out of 5 playoff losses. Like I said already, his two picks in the Jets game came in the second half when they were down by 4 TDs. What do you think's going to happen in that case when you're forcing every throw? The pics he threw in the 2004 playoffs were completely irrelevant. Only thing that hurt him in the Denver game (even though he hit Pollard in the hands, but he tipped it up and it got picked) was that he could have had 5 TDs and another 158.3 game. The NE game, it was the only pass he just lobbed up, and it was in the final minute. Never would have changed the outcome of the game, a game where he was trying to play safe just like Tom Brady.

When I said finisher, I didn't mean at the end of the game. I meant during the course of an entire postseason game. And if these QBs dont think they should be getting paid according to their postseason performance then they're about as nieve as you.

Brady has hardly been the reason they won these games.

1. He blew the Oakland game, then the officials blew the call. Vinatieri had one of the best kicks in history to even send it to OT.
2. He got knocked out in Pittsburgh, and was having a typical shitty dink and dunk game that didn't net any points.
3. He had less than 100 yards passing against the Rams before the last drive, in which he couldn't even get Vinatieri closer than a 48 yard attempt.
4. He had a sloppy game against the Titans, in which they only again won by 3 points, which came from another 46 yarder from Vinatieri.
5. He really didn't play that well against Indy. They had to settle for a FG five times, because of his crap skills in the redzone. Take away some of those Manning INT's, and they could have lost the game because of that. Once again it was Vinatieri knocking in 5 field goals to secure victory. And of course the defense saved Brady's ass in this one. Even with the 5 IND turnovers, they only won by 10 points. If this was the 90's Cowboys or any real dynasty, it would have been a 20+ point victory
6. Carolina in the SB was his only real great playoff performance. He did have a terrible interception that allowed Carolina to get back in the game when they could have buried them though. And jocking him for the drive at the end is a joke. Kasay somehow kicked the ball out of bounds in an indoor arena. There's something incredibly fishy about that. They hardly had to move the ball in a game where they had almost 500 yards on that defense to begin with. Any QB of medium talent could have got that into FG position.
7. Against Indy this past season, all he did was throw screens, hitches, and other little shitty passes, that his receivers and Dillon took downfield because of the soft Colt's defense. And speaking of Dillon, he ran all over the Colt's shitty defense. They controlled the clock, never giving the Colts a chance. Tom Brady was hardly a factor in this game.
8. The two deciding points in the Pittsburgh game didn't involve Tom Brady either. Harrison's interception return looked to seal it, just like Townshed's INT TD from Brady sealed the Steeler's regular season victory. Then when the Steelers started to rally, Bill Coward's decision to kick the FG on the 2 yard line took all the air out of the team and stadium (or maybe it was Burress' ridiculous endzone drop where he should have had the ball in his hand about 3 times...good riddance bitch). Big Ben's 3 big picks were the story in this game, not anything Brady did.
9. Brady tried giving the Eagles the game, but they didn't want to take it. That ridiculous fumble play in the redzone probably costed him the MVP. The real MVP was Rodney Harrison, getting two picks. One took away a sure 3 points (oh look, the margin of victory yet again for this fake dynasty), the other ended the game period. Or was it Bruschi, who had a pick when the Eagles were driving in the 4th. Either way, the game was all about crucial turnovers caused by the NE defense, which last time I checked, Tom Brady's never been a part of.

So there you have it, 1 game out 9 did he really shine in the post season and could be considered the reason they got the W.

[FinchBulldog2]

I'm going to put it simply. Brady is a winner. When he plays quarterback, he gets the job done. I don't care how many touchdowns or yards he throws for. He gets the victory.

[still_life]

And if these QBs dont think they should be getting paid according to their postseason performance then they're about as nieve as you.

How do you pay the QBs that don't make the post season every year (as if anyone makes it every year anyway)? 70% of the time that QBs have passed for 4000 yards in a season have made it to the playoffs. What about the 30% that didn't?

I'm going to put it simply. Brady is a winner. When he plays quarterback, he gets the job done. I don't care how many touchdowns or yards he throws for. He gets the victory.

Get out of here. The amount of uneducated sports fans is already filled to the brim in this thread, we don't need anymore. This isn't baseball, Brady doesn't get the win. The Patriots get the win.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

And you still wont give the team the credit they deserve. Maybe you just have issues with the Patriots all together.

[still_life]

How about you save that comment and tired argument (that's not even valid, I've called them a great team many times, it's just that they're being viewed with many unrealistic opinions) for some other football thread? This is about players, not teams here.

[imirish06]

It's quite simple.

Tom Brady's success was a product of a system.

The System is now coaching in South Bend, Indiana.


Therefore.


Tom Brady will now show like the 6th round draft pick that he is.

Only if Belichick is the coach. Without Belichick, he's not as good. He's a system quarterback. It's going to be interesting to see where they go with Weis leaving the offensive coordinator job open, as well.


Belichick is a Defensive Mastermind. The Offense was 100% Charlie Weis.

[still_life]

Yep. What has been a constant in Brady's career? Charlie Weis as o-coordinator. Now he's gone, and Brady is not good enough to call his own plays.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

that's not even valid, I've called them a great team many times, it's just that they're being viewed with many unrealistic opinions

oh look, the margin of victory yet again for this fake dynasty


You're the one that brought up team play in this thread. Im just simply pointing out your obvious hatred for this team. I doubt it really matters who is QB for the Pats, youre going to rag on him either way. Its like me with the yankees. My opinions, though a lot of the time in line with most baseball people, have to be taken with a grain of salt because I hate the yankees down to my very core. We both find ways to undermined the accomplishments of the teams and people we just plain dont like.

[still_life]

Oh god, this board needs an influx of Patriot fans I can argue with that actually understand football (if any exist). How can you not bring up team play when talking about the QB of that team? This thread isn't about Patriots vs. other teams. It's about Brady vs. other quarterbacks, and the way the teams are built and play is very relevant to why or why not Brady should get a big contract like other QBs.

"oh look, the margin of victory yet again for this fake dynasty"

That's called a cheapshot I had to throw in there, though of course I can argue that point and have already. That's not what this thread is for though.

Yes I hate the Patriots and Tom Brady, you know that. That doesn't mean I can't use the facts to show why Brady doesn't deserve a big contract.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Oh god, this board needs an influx of Patriot fans I can argue with that actually understand football (if any exist). How can you not bring up team play when talking about the QB of that team? This thread isn't about Patriots vs. other teams. It's about Brady vs. other quarterbacks, and the way the teams are built and play is very relevant to why or why not Brady should get a big contract like other QBs.
This is the only recent patriot thread that we have on this board. Why should I have to start another thred in order to prove a small point? Its obvious reading this that you'll underminded anything good the patriots do besides FG kicks. I dont know why you feel the need for observations to have their threads.

"oh look, the margin of victory yet again for this fake dynasty"

That's called a cheapshot I had to throw in there, though of course I can argue that point and have already. That's not what this thread is for though.
That was only one quote, I can go back and find a ton about how lucky they are and how they shouldn't have won [insert big game here].

Yes I hate the Patriots and Tom Brady, you know that. That doesn't mean I can't use the facts to show why Brady doesn't deserve a big contract.
Then we have to take your posts with a grain of salt as well. It doesn't mean youre not right. I agree with you that Manning is better than Brady, but bipartisan parties are much more credible than partisan.

[still_life]

This is the only recent patriot thread that we have on this board. Why should I have to start another thred in order to prove a small point? Its obvious reading this that you'll underminded anything good the patriots do besides FG kicks. I dont know why you feel the need for observations to have their threads.

There's an active NFL thread called "3 more months" that you could have posted in. This is about Tom Brady, not the whole NE team. It's easy to undermind the Patriots team right now, when people are calling them the greatest team in history (just heard it on NFL Network when they were doing a show on dynasties).

That was only one quote, I can go back and find a ton about how lucky they are and how they shouldn't have won [insert big game here].

It's true, but that's for another topic.

Then we have to take your posts with a grain of salt as well. It doesn't mean youre not right. I agree with you that Manning is better than Brady, but bipartisan parties are much more credible than partisan.

No we don't have to take my posts with a grain of salt. My hate isn't blinding what I'm saying. I prove with facts and data what I said, things that can not be argued. And since when do you agree with Manning being better than Brady? You were one of the people to vehemently say otherwise.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

There's an active NFL thread called "3 more months" that you could have posted in.
This was more central to the patriots


No we don't have to take my posts with a grain of salt. My hate isn't blinding what I'm saying. I prove with facts and data what I said, things that can not be argued.
You hate Brady so much that you cant even acknowledge to good things that he does do. That's what im talking about.

And since when do you agree with Manning being better than Brady? You were one of the people to vehemently say otherwise.
I have always thought that. The arguments that I got into with you was because I was only defending Brady. I know Manning is better, but it doesnt mean ill let you or anyone cut Brady down without some kind of defense.

[still_life]

You hate Brady so much that you cant even acknowledge to good things that he does do. That's what im talking about.

He's a system QB, there are few things good about him. This guy was drafted in the 6th round for a reason.

I have always thought that. The arguments that I got into with you was because I was only defending Brady. I know Manning is better, but it doesnt mean ill let you or anyone cut Brady down without some kind of defense.

I understand that, but in all those arguments, pages of arguments, you argued in every way you could what made Brady better than Manning, without saying Manning is better. It didn't add up.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

I understand that, but in all those arguments, pages of arguments, you argued in every way you could what made Brady better than Manning, without saying Manning is better. It didn't add up.

I'll admit he is probably not as good as Manning.
Taken from the "best QB" thread. Im not going to praise the guy; I wish death to him everytime he plays the pats because I know one day he'll break out against us.

[still_life]

"I'll admit he is probably not as good as Manning."

I'm sure a sentence like that was quickly lost after about 12 pages of posts of what Brady does better than Manning.

One of Manning's 158.3 games did come against NE. He's due.

[b e L I E v e]

Im going to put it like it is....Tom Brady is the most OVERRATED quaterback in the NFL....

Now, in saying that, i dont mean he is bad in any way....the guy is pretty decent from the qb position

HOWEVER

There were some comparisons between him and Montana, Young, and the other legends...well let me get this straight....he is nothing compared to them...nothing at all...not even a dot on the radar

but the guy can play some ball

so, for the record....i dont blame NE for giving him a sucky contract...in my eyes...you could have put any quarterback from the top eight teams in the past three years...and three superbowls would have been the same result

and also for the record....every super bowl the pats won was by a field goal...and that goes for their games too..every game almost was won by 1-5 points....

so dont even get me started on this dynasty crap....

[Capital H]

seriously, still life, shut up.

90% of the posts I've seen of yours have been bashing the patriots, we get the point, you don't like them, drop it.

[still_life]

I'm just proving a point. Sorry your team isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, like stupid fucking analysts Sean Salisbury and Glenn Parker would lead you to believe.

[Capital H]

you've made your point, shut up. I know the patriots aren't the greatest team, but can't I be happy that they win, there's a thing called hometown pride.

[still_life]

You're the one that came in here trying to continue the thread. And if I made my point, why are other people still replying? I'll post as much as I want about it. And I don't even know where you're going with this "can't I be happy?" bullshit. Be happy, but don't tell me Tom Brady is the best QB in the league.

[Capital H]

did I ever say that he's the best, no I didn't, don't put words in my mouth. I said that he's helping to win games, and that, as a patriots fan, I believe he is worth the contract.

[still_life]

He's helping to win games, so he should get $100 million? Then I guess they have about 5 $100 million dollar contracts to hand out on this team.

[Capital H]

fine whatever, you win. I don't care, you don't like the guy, who gives a shit? NOBODY. God dammit, every time there is anything about the patriots you automatically come in and start talking shit. I'm sick of it.

[still_life]

Because people need a reality check.

[b e L I E v e]

Still Life, your my hero

i thought i was the only person in the world who didnt think Brady was all that and a bag of chips