Abortion

[timbedinosaur]

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?

[TJ Wells]

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?
I'm not a woman, but if you think any woman has an abortion "willingly and without regret" you are kidding yourself. You should really check out the documentary Lake of Fire. Easily the most fascinating study of abortion i've ever seen.

[Circa1628]

I wouldn't do it personally, but abortion should be 100% legal, I know way to many shitty parents

[timbedinosaur]

I'm not a woman, but if you think any woman has an abortion "willingly and without regret" you are kidding yourself. You should really check out the documentary Lake of Fire. Easily the most fascinating study of abortion i've ever seen.I don't think its without all regret, I'm saying that the consequence of having the actual baby is more often more than having the abortion.

[TJ Wells]

My fear of abortion being made completely (or even partially) illegal is that this country would devolve into the same horror that is shown in 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days.

[timbedinosaur]

I wouldn't do it personally, but abortion should be 100% legal, I know way to many shitty parents I thought about that when I was writing this, then I realized that seeing all the shitty parents resulting from being young parents should be a deterrent. I'm not saying that we should have more teenage mothers but that it should be taught how shitty of parents teenagers make and how unprepared they are for a baby.

[timbedinosaur]

My fear of abortion being made completely (or even partially) illegal is that this country would devolve into the same horror that is shown in 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days.Please explain for I have never seen that movie.

[TJ Wells]

Please explain for I have never seen that movie.
Back-alley abortionists, mothers dying from improper procedures, inexperienced doctors, etc., etc., etc.

[timbedinosaur]

Back-alley abortionists, mothers dying from improper procedures, inexperienced doctors, etc., etc., etc.
holy mess. But you do realize, whatever is made illegal, they're will still be that type of thing going on

[Machu505]

Back-alley abortionists, mothers dying from improper procedures, inexperienced doctors, etc., etc., etc.

John McCain gave this example as why we should keep Roe v. Wade part of the law... in 2001.

[sdbrown]

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?
I find your wording somewhat misogynistic. Oh yeah, girls should be punished for having sex by being forced to have a baby. Meanwhile the guy can up and disappear. no consequences for him.

And you're saying that you want young people that can't even practice safe sex to be in charge of a BABY? Way to punish the kid.

Can i ask what you think about couples who have had vasectomies or had their tubes tied and still get pregnant? It happens more than people realize. What about them?

[Lueda Alia]

We have had a discussion about this a thousand times. No one on either side is going to change their mind, so it's pointless to argue over this. You either believe that women should have a choice, or you don't.

[Praetor]

Usually, I'm a pretty outspoken person on political issues, but I just can't seem to make up my mind on abortion.

[c_rob2700]

We have had a discussion about this a thousand times. No one on either side is going to change their mind, so it's pointless to argue over this. You either believe that women should have a choice, or you don't.
This.

/thread

[timbedinosaur]

I find your wording somewhat misogynistic. Oh yeah, girls should be punished for having sex by being forced to have a baby. Meanwhile the guy can up and disappear. no consequences for him.

And you're saying that you want young people that can't even practice safe sex to be in charge of a BABY? Way to punish the kid.

Can i ask what you think about couples who have had vasectomies or had their tubes tied and still get pregnant? It happens more than people realize. What about them?You're obviously mad at me and not reading all the points in the statement. If you look back you can clearly see that I said in the first or second line that there ARE a few circumstances that are acceptable to have an abortion. And also, you misread my statement, I said that I think that you should be educated on how horrible young parents are and abortion being legal only in certain circumstances be used as a deterrent. And also not I how I never called out just the girl but made both the guy and girl a single item by using the term people.

[tambam]

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?

Nothing ignorant, huh? Oops, too late.

[timbedinosaur]

We have had a discussion about this a thousand times. No one on either side is going to change their mind, so it's pointless to argue over this. You either believe that women should have a choice, or you don't.I didn't post this in hopes of changing peoples minds, I posted this to discuss my opinion on the subject matter. This is after a place to post your opinions on things.

[timbedinosaur]

Nothing ignorant, huh? Oops, too late.How is this ignorant? Is it because I told how some cases are alright to abortions and some cases not? Or how it is that the ability to have an abortion does in a way raise the willingness of somebody to have sex? Or how people that aren't able to support a baby shouldn't? Please, do tell me.

[Lueda Alia]

I didn't post this in hopes of changing peoples minds, I posted this to discuss my opinion on the subject matter. This is after a place to post your opinions on things.
Yeah, but all the arguments that you are making have been been brought up by other people before, numerous times. Just search for "abortion" in this forum, and you will find many threads with hundreds of replies.

I also suggest doing some research on this topic before making such strong claims. You would be surprised by the findings.

[timbedinosaur]

Yeah, but all the arguments that you are making have been been brought up by other people before, numerous times. Just search for "abortion" in this forum, and you will find many threads with hundreds of replies.

I also suggest doing some research on this topic before making such strong claims. You would be surprised by the findings.My claims aren't absurd, they have reasoning behind it.
When an action can easily be fixed and the consequence of the initial action avoided, why would you not commit this act?

[Lueda Alia]

My claims aren't absurd, they have reasoning behind it.
When an action can easily be fixed and the consequence of the initial action avoided, why would you not commit this act?
This is why I think you should do more research on this topic.

[c_rob2700]

Seriously dude, you have to do your research before you post strong debate topics.

these ap.net people do not mess around...

[timbedinosaur]

This is why I think you should do more research on this topic.
Reread my statement that you just quoted. It said the consequence of the INITIAL action avoided, not the consequence of the second action. Yes, I agree, abortion does have its tolls and consequences, but they're are not, in most cases, as bad as having the actual baby

[timbedinosaur]

Seriously dude, you have to do your research before you post strong debate topics.

these ap.net people do not mess around...Haha, I know what I'm talking about with this topic. And if it ever gets to heated I can just bail out and answer everything later.

[Lueda Alia]

Haha, I know what I'm talking about with this topic. And if it ever gets to heated I can just bail out and answer everything later.
No, I don't think you know what you're talking about. You have made assumptions without looking at statistics/case studies.

[timbedinosaur]

No, I don't think you know what you're talking about. You have made assumptions without looking at statistics/case studies.Why make case studies when you know people who have actually gone through both situations? Honestly, talking to the actual person is more informative.

[loveisdead]

Haha, I know what I'm talking about with this topic. And if it ever gets to heated I can just bail out and answer everything later.
You can't really bring up abortion and not expect things to get heated.

[Lueda Alia]

Why make case studies when you know people who have actually gone through both situations? Honestly, talking to the actual person is more informative.
Right, because one case represents all of them?

[c_rob2700]

Haha, I know what I'm talking about with this topic. And if it ever gets to heated I can just bail out and answer everything later.
These people do not negotiate

[loveisdead]

Why make case studies when you know people who have actually gone through both situations? Honestly, talking to the actual person is more informative.
It's one person. Wouldn't looking up general statistics be a far better way to judge things?

[loveisdead]

These people do not negotiate
huh?

[timbedinosaur]

You can't really bring up abortion and not expect things to get heated.
good point

[c_rob2700]

huh?
i'm telling him to leave before the ap.vets come in and destroy

[Lueda Alia]

i'm telling him to leave before the ap.vets come in and destroy
:-d

[Machu505]

These people do not negotiate with terrorists.

Or do we?

[timbedinosaur]

Right, because one case represents all of them?
No, notice how I said people not person.

[timbedinosaur]

Or do we?I was tempted to make an Obama joke, but that would be unfair and uncalled for

[c_rob2700]

Or do we?
Well everyone knows if you support Obama, you support terrorists.
gosh darnit, duh

[c_rob2700]

I was tempted to make an Obama joke, but that would be unfair and uncalled for
woops

[Lueda Alia]

No, notice how I said people not person.
How many people have you talked to that have had an abortion?

[Machu505]

Well everyone knows if you support Obama, you support terrorists.
gosh darnit, duh

But of course. I also hate infants and want to enslave the white race.

[timbedinosaur]

woops
haha, honestly the man has ties with a terrorist, but not strong ties. Besides they make it out as if Ayer(I think thats his name) was a terrorist with the sorts of Al Qaeda.

[timbedinosaur]

How many people have you talked to that have had an abortion? Teenagers, two. Adults, 3.

[c_rob2700]

But of course. I also hate infants and want to enslave the white race.
Do not forget that you hate the gays

[loveisdead]

I just don't see how anyone could be in favor of banning abortions. My main argument against that was brought up a few pages ago. Outlawing something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In this case it happens in a less safe, potentially harmful way to the mother.

[timbedinosaur]

Do not forget that you hate the gaysAnd the anti-christ.

[Lueda Alia]

Teenagers, two. Adults, 3.
5 people out of the millions that have abortions. Yeah, I would say that you still need to look at some statistics out there.

[Machu505]

haha, honestly the man has ties with a terrorist, but not strong ties. Besides they make it out as if Ayer(I think thats his name) was a terrorist with the sorts of Al Qaeda.

Well Sarah Palin's husband was part of Alaskan Independence Party, and John McCain was homies with G. Gordon Liddy, but I'm not going to make it an issue.

[timbedinosaur]

I just don't see how anyone could be in favor of banning abortions. My main argument against that was brought up a few pages ago. Outlawing something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In this case it happens in a less safe, potentially harmful way to the mother.i agree with you (even if it does compromise my whole argument) but I also say that we need a way to make abortions not so readily available to anyone and everyone

[loveisdead]

haha, honestly the man has ties with a terrorist, but not strong ties. Besides they make it out as if Ayer(I think thats his name) was a terrorist with the sorts of Al Qaeda.
Oh my.

[c_rob2700]

Well Sarah Palin's husband was part of Alaskan Independence Party, and John McCain was homies with G. Gordon Liddy, but I'm not going to make it an issue.
well hot muffins, looks like you're a sexist now

[Lueda Alia]

i agree with you (even if it does compromise my whole argument) but I also say that we need a way to make abortions not so readily available to anyone and everyone
What we need to do is teach people how to protect themselves. That would reduce abortions a lot.

[loveisdead]

i agree with you (even if it does compromise my whole argument) but I also say that we need a way to make abortions not so readily available to anyone and everyone
No. We need to change the way we teach teenagers about sex so the number of unwanted pregnancies decreases.

[Lueda Alia]

Oh my.
Let's take some shots!

[Lueda Alia]

No. We need to change the way we teach teenagers about sex so the number of unwanted pregnancies decreases.
Jinx!

[loveisdead]

well hot muffins, looks like you're a sexist now
Hagee.

[timbedinosaur]

Well Sarah Palin's husband was part of Alaskan Independence Party, and John McCain was homies with G. Gordon Liddy, but I'm not going to make it an issue.Exactly, its absurd how bad the media wants a story that they ruin peoples careers and possibly life by skewering facts that are true and making them seem even worse than they actually are. They need to stop attacking the people around the politician that don't have much to do with the campaign and focus on the actual candidate. The way the media portrays half the stories they have, makes me sick.

[loveisdead]

Let's take some shots!
Fine by me.
Jinx!
Second time that has happened in the thread. I was trying to find the high five smiley before but couldn't...I feel stupid.

[c_rob2700]

No. We need to change the way we teach teenagers about sex so the number of unwanted pregnancies decreases.
We can cut off all teenage boys' wango-tangos and it still wouldn't change

[loveisdead]

Exactly, its absurd how bad the media wants a story that they ruin peoples careers and possibly life by skewering facts that are true and making them seem even worse than they actually are. They need to stop attacking the people around the politician that don't have much to do with the campaign and focus on the actual candidate. The way the media portrays half the stories they have, makes me sick.
The media is reporting on how the campaigns are running. If they're attacking associations, the media reports on it.

[Lueda Alia]

Fine by me.

Second time that has happened in the thread. I was trying to find the high five smiley before but couldn't...I feel stupid.
Hahaha I think I would deal with these statements a lot better if I had a drink, because I wouldn't take them as seriously.

[timbedinosaur]

What we need to do is teach people how to protect themselves. That would reduce abortions a lot.In whole, the main idea that I'm trying to state is that teenagers need to learn that they're are consequences for this and other actions. And that they're are no get-out-of-jail-free-passes in life.

[loveisdead]

We can cut off all teenage boys' wango-tangos and it still wouldn't change
What? Are you claiming girls will still get pregnant after having sex with a dickless guy?

[Lueda Alia]

We can cut off all teenage boys' wango-tangos and it still wouldn't change
Actually, Sex Ed programs do help. As far as I know, the US have a higher teen pregnancy rate than Canada, and I do believe that that's because we have better Sex Ed here. We don't really focus much on abstinence programs like you guys do, because we know it won't really stop anyone from doing what they want to do.

[c_rob2700]

the biggest misconception on this topic is that some people think that Pro-Choice is the same as Pro-Abortion

[loveisdead]

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?

In whole, the main idea that I'm trying to state is that teenagers need to learn that they're are consequences for this and other actions. And that they're are no get-out-of-jail-free-passes in life.
That isn't what you said.

[Machu505]

the biggest misconception on this topic is that some people think that Pro-Choice is the same as Pro-Abortion

This this this

[loveisdead]

the biggest misconception on this topic is that some people think that Pro-Choice is the same as Pro-Abortion
I loathe that term.

[Lueda Alia]

In whole, the main idea that I'm trying to state is that teenagers need to learn that they're are consequences for this and other actions. And that they're are no get-out-of-jail-free-passes in life.
I always bring this up when someone makes this argument: Do you really want to bring a baby in this world as a form of punishment? I mean, really? Is that what you want babies to be? A punishment?

If anything, I wouldn't want certain people to ever have children, because that would be a punishment for them (the children). No one deserves to have horrible parents.

[de la sympathie]

No, notice how I said people not person.

Still, 'people' does not necessarily mean that you know hundreds of thousands of people who have had experiences with abortion. Case studies and general statistics represent many people at once all across the country. So to be better informed and get a general idea, you look from a wider perspective, then narrow it down.

As a woman, I feel that I should have the right to decide what I do with my body. What man - and I say man, especially, since the race for the White House this year is now strictly male - or anyone, for that matter, should have a say what I do with my body? What if I'm not in a situation where I can raise a child? Moreover, what if I could not give a child the life they needed to have? What if I was raped? It all depends on the situation. But I know girls who are my age and pregnant, and ones who are my age and have had abortions. It all depends on the person and what position they are in. (pun not intended)

[timbedinosaur]

We can cut off all teenage boys' wango-tangos and it still wouldn't changeI can see that happening:
Today, news is that after the removal of teenage males sexual organs abortion and teenage pregnancies are down. In other news, teenage male suicide has skyrocketed.

[c_rob2700]

Yes, have you seen the iPhone?
if they can make something like that, i'm sure there's a way to get girls pregnant without dicks

[Lueda Alia]

the biggest misconception on this topic is that some people think that Pro-Choice is the same as Pro-Abortion
I'm not pro-abortion at all. I don't think anyone is. I have yet to meet a pro-choice person who loves the fact that abortions happen. It's all about believing that everyone deserves to have a choice and control over their own body. It's really that simple.

[timbedinosaur]

Still, 'people' does not necessarily mean that you know hundreds of thousands of people who have had experiences with abortion. Case studies and general statistics represent many people at once all across the country. So to be better informed and get a general idea, you look from a wider perspective, then narrow it down.

As a woman, I feel that I should have the right to decide what I do with my body. What man - and I say man, especially, since the race for the White House this year is now strictly male - or anyone, for that matter, should have a say what I do with my body? What if I'm not in a situation where I can raise a child? Moreover, what if I could not give a child the life they needed to have? What if I was raped? It all depends on the situation. But I know girls who are my age and pregnant, and ones who are my age and have had abortions. It all depends on the person and what position they are in. (pun not intended)Also note the original statement when I said victims of sexual crimes and a few other cases should be allowed to have an abortion.

[Lueda Alia]

Still, 'people' does not necessarily mean that you know hundreds of thousands of people who have had experiences with abortion. Case studies and general statistics represent many people at once all across the country. So to be better informed and get a general idea, you look from a wider perspective, then narrow it down.

As a woman, I feel that I should have the right to decide what I do with my body. What man - and I say man, especially, since the race for the White House this year is now strictly male - or anyone, for that matter, should have a say what I do with my body? What if I'm not in a situation where I can raise a child? Moreover, what if I could not give a child the life they needed to have? What if I was raped? It all depends on the situation. But I know girls who are my age and pregnant, and ones who are my age and have had abortions. It all depends on the person and what position they are in. (pun not intended)
I haven't seen you in forever! :buddies:

[c_rob2700]

We americans cling to our guns and religion

[timbedinosaur]

That isn't what you said.I know but I still stand by my original statement. But people took my original statement so out of context that I had to restate it.

[Lueda Alia]

We americans cling to our guns and religion
You do. And it's scary.

[c_rob2700]

Exactly.
Pro-Choice just means that you believe the government souldn't make your decisions for you

[timbedinosaur]

We americans cling to our guns and religion Now wheres my booze?

[c_rob2700]

I plan on living in Canada whenever i'm old enough

[de la sympathie]

Also note the original statement when I said victims of sexual crimes and a few other cases should be allowed to have an abortion.

Brings me back to my point. Why should you "allow" me permission to have an abortion? And, going to the other end of the spectrum, why should you have the right to disallow me? You talk about consequences, but out of curiosity, what would you do?

[de la sympathie]

I haven't seen you in forever! :buddies:

Eda! :wave:You're a mod now? Wow, it's been a really long time!

[loveisdead]

I know but I still stand by my original statement. But people took my original statement so out of context that I had to restate it.

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?

Dude. Read what you wrote. You're all over the place right now.

[Lueda Alia]

I know but I still stand by my original statement. But people took my original statement so out of context that I had to restate it.
I'd like to see a reply to the post I made in the other page about the whole "punishment" thing.

[de la sympathie]

We americans cling to our guns and religion

It's scary.

[Lueda Alia]

Eda! :wave:You're a mod now? Wow, it's been a really long time!
Haha I was a Mod when you were posting regularly, I think. I have been a Staffer (red!) for like 2 years now.

[c_rob2700]

It's scary.
I heart Rockford

[de la sympathie]

By the way, you talk about punishment for girls, and "getting away with" abortion. Where are the consequences for the boys?

[de la sympathie]

I heart Rockford

Haha, really? Why?

[de la sympathie]

Haha I was a Mod when you were posting regularly, I think. I have been a Staffer (red!) for like 2 years now.

That's what I meant, there you go, haha. Very respectable. How have you been? What's been going on?

I still post quite a bit in the Lyrics and Poetry forum, still living it up with Tariq and James.

[Lueda Alia]

By the way, you talk about punishment for girls, and "getting away with" abortion. Where are the consequences for the boys?
There aren't any. Men will never know what it's like to carry someone else inside of them without their consent.

[Lueda Alia]

That's what I meant, there you go, haha. Very respectable. How have you been? What's been going on?

I still post quite a bit in the Lyrics and Poetry forum, still living it up with Tariq and James.
You should post in other forums, too.

I'm pretty good and I'm wasting time at the moment. What about you? Are you almost done with HS?

[c_rob2700]

Haha, really? Why?
Used to have relatives there, i just remember having fun there.

i was 6, but whatev

[crack n toast]

If hookers have to get rid of their baby's let them this way more unpregnant for the rest of us.

[de la sympathie]

There aren't any. Men will never know what it's like to carry someone else inside of them without their consent.

But if a woman should be faced with consequences, then why not a man as well? A man is just as responsible as a woman for an unwanted pregnancy.

[c_rob2700]

But if a woman should be faced with consequences, then why not a man as well? A man is just as responsible as a woman for an unwanted pregnancy.
We are just as responsible, but we can get away with it.
it's unfair

[Lueda Alia]

But if a woman should be faced with consequences, then why not a man as well? A man is just as responsible as a woman for an unwanted pregnancy.
Because it's not possible for them to suffer the same consequences. If they did, I think things like this would not even be an issue at all because their opinions would change.

[de la sympathie]

You should post in other forums, too.

I'm pretty good and I'm wasting time at the moment. What about you? Are you almost done with HS?

Only today did I finally check out General again. So odd to see, but it seems alright in there right now.

Actually, I'm a junior. So looking at colleges and all that. Three AP classes, Editor-in-Chief of the newspaper, plus track pre-season stuff is starting, so I'm being kept pretty busy. What have you been doing? Are you and Tristan still together?

(let's see how out of the loop I am now, haha.)

[timbedinosaur]

I always bring this up when someone makes this argument: Do you really want to bring a baby in this world as a form of punishment? I mean, really? Is that what you want babies to be? A punishment?

If anything, I wouldn't want certain people to ever have children, because that would be a punishment for them (the children). No one deserves to have horrible parents.Sorry I didn't see this.

But I see what your saying and I do agree, I am a bit to the extreme. While this probably isn't the best way, there needs to be a better way to show people that sex isn't something you just do, it can have very serious consequences. It also should be shown that your actions shouldn't be something you can just do without the consequence of it. I guess I was being ignorant when I posted the original statement and the text in bold is what the point should be. With that, I kindly ask you to close this thread down for the fact that it is an ignorant post.

[crack n toast]

Give the hookers abortions. huh.

[de la sympathie]

We are just as responsible, but we can get away with it.
it's unfair

And there really are not any negative social connotations to add to the baggage.

[timbedinosaur]

But if a woman should be faced with consequences, then why not a man as well? A man is just as responsible as a woman for an unwanted pregnancy.Life isn't fair. Double standards aren't fair but they exist. While they're does need to be a better way to make the man have as much a consequence for the baby, one has yet to be thought of or enacted.

[Lueda Alia]

Only today did I finally check out General again. So odd to see, but it seems alright in there right now.

Actually, I'm a junior. So looking at colleges and all that. Three AP classes, Editor-in-Chief of the newspaper, plus track pre-season stuff is starting, so I'm being kept pretty busy. What have you been doing? Are you and Tristan still together?

(let's see how out of the loop I am now, haha.)
That's awesome. I'm not surprised you're doing so much at once. People like you give me hope for the future!

We're still together, of course. I can't see that changing unless he pisses me off. :-) Other than that, not a whole lot if new. I worked for almost two years and took a break from school. I'm taking some random classes until December now, and then finally going to University full time in September. I can't wait.

[timbedinosaur]

Give the hookers abortions. huh.That was an extremely stupid and ignorant post. Possibly the dumbest one I've seen in here (including mine).Leave. Now.

[Lueda Alia]

Life isn't fair. Double standards aren't fair but they exist. While they're does need to be a better way to make the man have as much a consequence for the baby, one has yet to be thought of or enacted.
So, since "one has yet to be thought of or enacted" how about we leave things the way they are, and give all women the choice to decide what happens to their body?

Just because double standards exist, doesn't mean that we should just accept them. Your first two sentences just don't make sense.

[c_rob2700]

And there really are not any negative social connotations to add to the baggage.
Depends on the family as well, i know if i got a girl pregnant, my parents would help me take care of it and stuff.

if they didn't murder me

[crack n toast]

life sucks someone always has something better. Such as guys can leave a pregnant chick and that chick cant leave that baby. Yup.

[s.t.e.v.e.n.]

remember on page on when people were like "hey theres no need to have this debate"

[Yes. And?]

This thread gives me a headache.

[timbedinosaur]

So, since "one has yet to be thought of or enacted" how about we leave things the way they are, and give all women the choice to decide what happens to their body?

Just because double standards exist, doesn't mean that we should just accept them. Your first two sentences just don't make sense.What I'm saying is that we have to tackle one subject at a time.

[Lueda Alia]

Sorry I didn't see this.

But I see what your saying and I do agree, I am a bit to the extreme. While this probably isn't the best way, there needs to be a better way to show people that sex isn't something you just do, it can have very serious consequences. It also should be shown that your actions shouldn't be something you can just do without the consequence of it. I guess I was being ignorant when I posted the original statement and the text in bold is what the point should be. With that, I kindly ask you to close this thread down for the fact that it is an ignorant post.
People should know about the consequences of sex, absolutely, and that is why Sex Ed needs to be taught in schools. It's really the only way to reduce the number of abortions. Punishment isn't always the best way to teach people about consequences. Besides, in this case, you would be punishing more than just the "offender" (for the lack of a better word): you would be punishing the babies, too.

Do you really want me to lock this?

[de la sympathie]

That's awesome. I'm not surprised you're doing so much at once. People like you give me hope for the future!

We're still together, of course. I can't see that changing unless he pisses me off. :-) Other than that, not a whole lot if new. I worked for almost two years and took a break from school. I'm taking some random classes until December now, and then finally going to University full time in September. I can't wait.

Aww, that's good. Haha, back in the day (and I know, this will sound odd to you), I always hoped I could find a relationship like you and Tristan have. For now, I think I have found a pretty good one of my own. ;)

Congratulations! I know you said a long time ago that it took a lot to get through high school and the college you were going to. So a big kudos to you. And I'm jealous, I would love to be going to college right now. Sixteen isn't a lot when you look at it objectively, but it feels like I'm so much older.

[Lueda Alia]

What I'm saying is that we have to tackle one subject at a time.
Sure, so how about we tackle that issue then? The fact that men don't pay any consequences? Then we can move on to the rights that women should (or shouldn't) have.

[c_rob2700]

This thread gives me a headache.
O HAI BUD-E

[de la sympathie]

Depends on the family as well, i know if i got a girl pregnant, my parents would help me take care of it and stuff.

if they didn't murder me

And the same for me. But a lot of people don't have a family that they can depend on, and that's a hard thing to live with.

[timbedinosaur]

People should know about the consequences of sex, absolutely, and that is why Sex Ed needs to be taught in schools. It's really the only way to reduce the number of abortions. Punishment isn't always the best way to teach people about consequences. Besides, in this case, you would be punishing more than just the "offender" (for the lack of a better word): you would be punishing the babies, too.

Do you really want me to lock this?
Right now I'm debating whether or not I want to, because I realize now how ignorant my statement was. On the other hand I still want to answer the questions. I guess I'll leave it up to you, do you think this should be locked?

and to answer you're question, I stated that we need to find a better way and it was ignorant to say that outlawing abortion was a good way.

[c_rob2700]

And the same for me. But a lot of people don't have a family that they can depend on, and that's a hard thing to live with.
Which brings us back to why to have an Abortion in the first place

[crack n toast]

Havin a hooker with a baby is hard to. Yup.

[timbedinosaur]

Sure, so how about we tackle that issue then? The fact that men don't pay any consequences? Then we can move on to the rights that women should (or shouldn't) have.
I'm trying to decide how much of that was sarcasm

[Lueda Alia]

Aww, that's good. Haha, back in the day (and I know, this will sound odd to you), I always hoped I could find a relationship like you and Tristan have. For now, I think I have found a pretty good one of my own. ;)

Congratulations! I know you said a long time ago that it took a lot to get through high school and the college you were going to. So a big kudos to you. And I'm jealous, I would love to be going to college right now. Sixteen isn't a lot when you look at it objectively, but it feels like I'm so much older.
Haha I hear that from a few people. Thanks though, it means a lot. I'm sure you will find someone as perfect for you as well, just give it time!

Yeah, life has definitely not been easy, but the last two and a half years have been really good. I'm very happy about it. I know what you mean about feeling older, though. I have always felt the same way, and that's one of the reasons why high school wasn't that great for me. You're on the right track though, so don't change. Life will only get better!

[timbedinosaur]

Havin a hooker with a baby is hard to. Yup.Leave.

[c_rob2700]

Havin a hooker with a baby is hard to. Yup.
Gotta keep that pimp hand strong bro

[crack n toast]

I'm trying to decide how much of that was sarcasm
im gonn say about about 38%. huh.

[Lueda Alia]

Right now I'm debating whether or not I want to, because I realize now how ignorant my statement was. On the other hand I still want to answer the questions. I guess I'll leave it up to you, do you think this should be locked?

and to answer you're question, I stated that we need to find a better way and it was ignorant to say that outlawing abortion was a good way.
Well, I hope you mean that, because that's honestly really great to hear. I used to feel the same way you do about abortion until 5 years ago, and I would always bring up the same arguments that you and other pro-life people do all the time. I did a lot of research on this topic though, and found out that my logic was very flawed in the process. It's actually quite ironic because I did so much research to prove that my points and opinion were right, only to find the opposite. Anyway, I hope that in time you will come to the same conclusions that I have.

I can't imagine myself having an abortion, so I would consider myself "pro-life" when it comes to me, but definitely "pro-choice" when it comes to other women because I believe that they have the right to make a decision for themselves like I do.

I'll lock this thread if you want me to.

[crack n toast]

Gotta keep that pimp hand strong bro
I actually use the cock slap. i feel it gives more of an edge. wild card to the rescue. huh

[c_rob2700]

It's also different when you're going through it yourself, it's scary shit man

[de la sympathie]

Haha I hear that from a few people. Thanks though, it means a lot. I'm sure you will find someone as perfect for you as well, just give it time!

Yeah, life has definitely not been easy, but the last two and a half years have been really good. I'm very happy about it. I know what you mean about feeling older, though. I have always felt the same way, and that's one of the reasons why high school wasn't that great for me. You're on the right track though, so don't change. Life will only get better!

The relationship I have right now is as close to perfect as it gets right now. I didn't think I'd be able to find something like this in high school, but it's great. Seventeen is coming up soon!

What college are you going to, and where?

[c_rob2700]

Ahhh, i find the Chinese Dragon approach more effective

[Lueda Alia]

The relationship I have right now is as close to perfect as it gets right now. I didn't think I'd be able to find something like this in high school, but it's great. Seventeen is coming up soon!

What college are you going to, and where?
You never know, but yeah, chances are that you will most likely find something like this a little later.

I'll probably go to the University of Western Ontario, which is here in London. It's one of the three biggest universities in Canada, and also top ten academically. It's great. What about you? Where are you thinking of applying?

[crack n toast]

do you relize that de la sympathie is still talking about the issue and not how to abuse hookers. Yup.

[c_rob2700]

I actually use the cock slap. i feel it gives more of an edge. wild card to the rescue. huh
the one above me is to you

[de la sympathie]

Ahhh, i find the Chinese Dragon approach more effective

Which is what? Haha.

[c_rob2700]

do you relize that de la sympathie is still talking about the issue and not how to abuse hookers. Yup.
I hear a Ban Hammer

[timbedinosaur]

Well, I hope you mean that, because that's honestly really great to hear. I used to feel the same way you do about abortion until 5 years ago, and I would always bring up the same arguments that you and other pro-life people do all the time. I did a lot of research on this topic though, and found out that my logic was very flawed in the process. It's actually quite ironic because I did so much research to prove that my points and opinion were right, only to find the opposite. Anyway, I hope that in time you will come to the same conclusions that I have.

I can't imagine myself having an abortion, so I would consider myself "pro-life" when it comes to me, but definitely "pro-choice" when it comes to other women because I believe that they have the right to make a decision for themselves like I do.

I'll lock this thread if you want me to.
haha
you don't have too
there are way to many conversations to lock it.
And I'm always whining and complaining about how our freedom is being taken away by being so politically correct and I didn't realize I was doing the exact same thing.

Oh, and I could never see myself having an abortion either:-d

[c_rob2700]

Which is what? Haha.
Yoou really don't want to know, i had the unfortunate happen to me when my "friends" tell me these things

[Lueda Alia]

I hear a Ban Hammer
Hahaha maybe.

[c_rob2700]

Yoou really don't want to know, i had the unfortunate happen to me when my "friends" tell me these things
Excuse my poor grammar, yikes

[crack n toast]

scary like a some one from Canada who wants FREE health care. back to abortions i guess some one from canada would want a FREE abortion. huh.

[Lueda Alia]

haha
you don't have too
there are way to many conversations to lock it.
And I'm always whining and complaining about how our freedom is being taken away by being so politically correct and I didn't realize I was doing the exact same thing.

Oh, and I could never see myself having an abortion either:-d
You're lucky that you will never have to.

[de la sympathie]

You never know, but yeah, chances are that you will most likely find something like this a little later.

I'll probably go to the University of Western Ontario, which is here in London. It's one of the three biggest universities in Canada, and also top ten academically. It's great. What about you? Where are you thinking of applying?

I certainly hope so. :)

Are you applying anywhere else? I'm going to be applying in and around the Chicago area, the places like U of I at Chicago, Columbia University, Loyola University, DePaul, the American Art Academy, etc. Then places like University of Wisconsin at Madison, UW Milwaukee, and even art schools like the Milwaukee Institute of Art and Design.

[Lueda Alia]

scary like a some one from Canada who wants FREE health care. back to abortions i guess some one from canada would want a FREE abortion. huh.
It's not free, since we pay for it in taxes. So try again, or leave before I do something about it. :-)

[de la sympathie]

Yoou really don't want to know, i had the unfortunate happen to me when my "friends" tell me these things

Hahaha, that just fuels the curiosity. What is it?

[c_rob2700]

Seriosly kids, use a condom!

it's better than having 6.wks of nausia and worry

[c_rob2700]

@de la sympathie
I would really get banned if i explained it

[Lueda Alia]

I certainly hope so. :)

Are you applying anywhere else? I'm going to be applying in and around the Chicago area, the places like U of I at Chicago, Columbia University, Loyola University, DePaul, the American Art Academy, etc. Then places like University of Wisconsin at Madison, UW Milwaukee, and even art schools like the Milwaukee Institute of Art and Design.
Apply in Canada! :-)

Nah, I'm not. Well, I will probably apply in the three other colleges that are part of Western, but that's about it. I can't imagine being declined in any of them, and I don't really want to go to a university outside of London.

[loveisdead]

scary like a some one from Canada who wants FREE health care. back to abortions i guess some one from canada would want a FREE abortion. huh.
You're a fucking idiot. How she hasn't banned you yet is beyond me.

[de la sympathie]

@de la sympathie
I would really get banned if i explained it

Hahaha, alright. Damn. I'll figure it out someday.

[Lueda Alia]

You're a fucking idiot. How she hasn't banned you yet is beyond me.
I wasn't paying attention to him until now. But I gave him a choice, so he can decide if he wants to get banned or not.

[crack n toast]

Hahaha, that just fuels the curiosity. What is it?
Becuase you really want to no
Chinese Dragon= When a male is recieving a blowjob from a partner, and is about to orgasm, he slams the partners head down, making the seman come out of the partners nose. AKA Teaching a girl to breath fire.

[loveisdead]

I wasn't paying attention to him until now. But I gave him a choice, so he can decide if he wants to get banned or not.
ohhhhhhh i see what you did there. well played.

[de la sympathie]

Apply in Canada! :-)

Nah, I'm not. Well, I will probably apply in the three other colleges that are part of Western, but that's about it. I can't imagine being declined in any of them, and I don't really want to go to a university outside of London.

That's so odd to hear you say "London" and mean "but in Canada". (That is such a typical American statement.)

But I've gotta head out of here for now, so I'll see you later. I missed being around, Eda. Good to see you after ages. :)

[Lueda Alia]

ohhhhhhh i see what you did there. well played.
I thought so, too.

[crack n toast]

GF but really i think people can get abortions but only if they pay a lot. You make the mistake live with it or pay up basically.

[Lueda Alia]

That's so odd to hear you say "London" and mean "but in Canada". (That is such a typical American statement.)

But I've gotta head out of here for now, so I'll see you later. I missed being around, Eda. Good to see you after ages. :)
Haha I can imagine.

I have to go as well, but I hope to see you around more often! :buddies:

[c_rob2700]

Becuase you really want to no
Chinese Dragon= When a male is recieving a blowjob from a partner, and is about to orgasm, he slams the partners head down, making the seman come out of the partners nose. AKA Teaching a girl to breath fire.
I warned you all

[crack n toast]

i had to urban dictionary that lol

[c_rob2700]

i had to urban dictionary that lol
I always heard you punched her in the stomach

[crack n toast]

huh.

[c_rob2700]

huh.
lolwut?

[crack n toast]

lolwut?
Yah im lost to. huh.

[c_rob2700]

Yah im lost to. huh.
Hi, would you like to be my friend

[crack n toast]

sure. Yup

[c_rob2700]

sure. Yup
Well since we're friends, let's do what ap.net friends do.

wanna go tear up the Personal Life chat thread?

[crack n toast]

yes lets do it

[c_rob2700]

I'll post a random pic, you shall follow



AHOY

[tambam]

How is this ignorant? Is it because I told how some cases are alright to abortions and some cases not? Or how it is that the ability to have an abortion does in a way raise the willingness of somebody to have sex? Or how people that aren't able to support a baby shouldn't? Please, do tell me.

Maybe because you're making broad generalizations in your first post? Look at the sections I bolded and tell me how they're not broad generalizations.

[salad fingers]

If the woman can support hospital funds and is healthy enough for a baby, I say pro life. If she is sick, the baby is sick, and she can't support herself financially during the pregnancy, I say pro choice.

[Rodeo]

Abortion is like deer season: population control!

[secthagoals626]

I think it is ridiculous that this is such an important political issue for some voters... it should not be a factor in the presidential election... it should be about the actual issues (war, economy, energy efficiency etc.), not an enormously overblown mostly religious issue.

[secthagoals626]

Abortion is like deer season: population control!



No matter how wrong that is, i still lol'd

[Rodeo]

No matter how wrong that is, i still lol'd


hahahah.. good!

[Mezzle]

Abortion is a completely personal decision and the only people that should have the say are those involved.

A huge reason for me not being religious is down to the way churches decide what people can and can't do. That only adds to the problem.

Abortion should not be used as a method of contraception but no one should forceably have to have a child. It absolutely astounds me when people try to speak for others on the behalf of this subject. It is downright ignorant to preach to people on the subject when I can guarantee a huge section of the population will not know what it's like to ever be in the situation.

For the record, my girlfriend and I practice safe sex but were anything to happen, then we would most definitely get an abortion.

[writeacliche]

The typical homeschool christian conservative argument around here is: Why should the baby be punished?

My example was: Well, say a 15 year old girl gets raped. Should she have to have the baby?

Their answer: YES!!!!!! No matter WHAT! That is a human in there!! Why should that baby child be punished because someone else did something stupid!!!!

[s.t.e.v.e.n.]

i wish it were possible to have this discussion without each side completely misrepresenting the other sides argument. I realize there are idiots out there.

But for the most part:

I do not think that people who are pro-choice are baby killing murderers. I think that they have many reasons why they feel the way they do. I try to understand the desperate situations that many people find themselves in which lead to abortions. I also understand that many people who are pro-choice would love to see less abortions occurring in our country. I feel as if we can work together to accomplish his regardless of the legality of the procedure.

I also do not think it is fair to characterize everyone who is pro-life as an out of touch "homeschool christian conservative".

The fact is that both sides respond extremely when they are attacked extremely

/kumbaya session

[Praetor]

Basically. I also do not like the labels "pro choice" and "pro life" because if you're not pro-choice then the name implies that you are against women making decisions, and if you're not pro-life then the name implies that you're pro-murder.

[Matthew Tsai]

The typical homeschool christian conservative argument around here is: Why should the baby be punished?

My example was: Well, say a 15 year old girl gets raped. Should she have to have the baby?

Their answer: YES!!!!!! No matter WHAT! That is a human in there!! Why should that baby child be punished because someone else did something stupid!!!!

well, that's a stupid answer.

but they have a point, you must admit. there IS a human being in there that DOES deserve his/her rights. at the same time, it resulted from a rape....

difficult issue. there's a lot of gray area here

[Adeniz19]

well, that's a stupid answer.

but they have a point, you must admit. there IS a human being in there that DOES deserve his/her rights. at the same time, it resulted from a rape....

difficult issue. there's a lot of gray area hereand this is why there is such a huge debate over this issue. some people don't see it as being a human being yet, so therefor, it doesn't have rights.

[lew_1987]

Abortion is something which I find hard to figure out my stance on.

[Machu505]

well, that's a stupid answer.

but they have a point, you must admit. there IS a human being in there that DOES deserve his/her rights. at the same time, it resulted from a rape....

difficult issue. there's a lot of gray area here

It's not alive until it can survive outside of the womb.

[dai the flu]

It's not alive until it can survive outside of the womb.
opinion.

[TK]

How does this issue involve anyone but the people involved who are thinking about the abortion? I still don't understand how people can be so arrogant as to believe their morals based on religious views must be laws that people must abide by.

[Lueda Alia]

well, that's a stupid answer.

but they have a point, you must admit. there IS a human being in there that DOES deserve his/her rights. at the same time, it resulted from a rape....

difficult issue. there's a lot of gray area here
Well, first of all, not everyone considers it a human. Secondly, the woman has rights too, and you can't force her to be pregnant for 9 months. If you're going to consider the fetus a human that deserves rights, then you should be aware of the fact that no human being can use another human's body without their consent. So, that really kills your argument here.

[alice+interiors]

In general.. I don't think abortion should be legal: the fact that people use it to prevent a pregnancy which could harm their career or some other ideal, world thing is wrong in my eyes. However, there are exceptions (which could possibly prove the rule?) such as those who are raped and who are thrust with the responsibility upon them, and in that area I don't understand how anyone could support a stance that they should undergo the pregnancy, and have the baby.

[alice+interiors]

elaborate.

Also does this mean you would ban abortion or just disaprove?
I would ban private abortion that anyone could get approval for.. but there would be cases were permission could be sought and granted for the right to an abortion.

[alltimehoe93]

everyone has their own opinion, there will never be a time when everyone is in agreement.
this particular issue has SO much gray. i don't really think we have a right to judge on a whole. given a specific case, we could judge however i don't think any opinion can be expressed and cover every single situation of a woman wanting an abortion.

[stendhal]

I'm vague on the details, so if anyone can enlighten me, please do.

In Colorado, they were going to/are trying to ban abortion in it's entirity. Even an ectopic pregnancy because you are killing a fetus.

So Joe the doctor cannot operate on a patient with an ectopic pregnancy... which would lead to the mother's death.

How does that make any fucking sense?

[_jonas]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00685/sculpture-girl_685848n.jpg

[_jonas]

http://static.flickr.com/65/171706366_868193d0b5.jpg

[_jonas]

http://theseedsite.co.uk/seedouta.gif

[_jonas]

http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/Aa212887.SeedDoc5_ZA01140870%28en-us,office.11%29.gif

[_jonas]

http://prisms.cs.umass.edu/dome/uploads/images/turtles/snapper_before.jpg

[lew_1987]

Hmmm, that really added to the discussion of this pressing issue.

[_jonas]

http://football.dellah.com/reading/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/kingsley.JPG

[a speedo model]

My fear of abortion being made completely (or even partially) illegal is that this country would devolve into the same horror that is shown in 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days.
God, that movie was difficult to watch...

[a speedo model]

How does this issue involve anyone but the people involved who are thinking about the abortion? I still don't understand how people can be so arrogant as to believe their morals based on religious views must be laws that people must abide by.
You're assuming people against abortion are against it for religious reasons. Interesting...

[TK]

You're assuming people against abortion are against it for religious reasons. Interesting...

I'm assuming the majority of people in Oklahoma and Missouri, and who I've spoken to on the subject, are against abortion partially or fully because of their "religion's stance". This is not true for every single person against abortion, but I've found that it is in America for a decent sized majority.

[&IllBeTheReason]

Sob story time. My older sister got pregnant when she was 16, my mom told her to abort it but she didn't want to. She had to drop out of school and when her husband(they got married) left her she got into hard drugs and partying because she started hanging out with an older crowd because all her friends were in college. My niece is the most beautiful thing in the world and I love her with all of my heart but she lives with her incapable grandmother because her own mother isn't responsible enough to take care of her and obviously resents her for cutting her life short. I am positive my niece is going to have serious psychological issues because of her mother. She is only five right now and already shows an unhealthy attitude towards my sister. Sometimes you're punishing more than just the parents.

[jtsnazzy]

Abortion wouldn't be a hot topic if people weren't too stupid to prevent getting pregnant.

[Matthew Tsai]

Well, first of all, not everyone considers it a human. Secondly, the woman has rights too, and you can't force her to be pregnant for 9 months. If you're going to consider the fetus a human that deserves rights, then you should be aware of the fact that no human being can use another human's body without their consent. So, that really kills your argument here.

hmm, you're right. and that's why it's a sticky issue

[lauren<3s music]

You are so incredibly sad.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the statistics of abortion before spouting off myths that women use abortions as a form of birth control to deal with casual sex.

If you want to reduce the number of abortions, reduce the number of unintended pregnancies by increasing education and access to timely and comprehensive birth control options.

Educate yourself, before making assumptions.

[samsara]

I'm not writing this to point out immoralities or wrongs with abortion, I'm not nearly educated enough on that topic, so I won't post anything ignorant about it. What I'm writing this for is to say that only a few people should be able to have an abortion; those people being victims of rape or any sexual crimes which caused them to get pregnant and a few other special cases. Why I have this stance against it is because that letting people get abortions after having casual sex is just endorsing the activities that allowed them to get pregnant in the first place. Maybe you were tricked or basically forced into sex and those people in most cases should be allowed to have an abortion, but those who just have it willingly and without regret should not. They are committing an act that was foolish and is not smiled upon for a reason. If girls get pregnant and they're allowed to get an abortion and not have any consequences for their actions, they are learning that they can do basically anything and get away with it without anything happening in return. People should learn that there are no get-out-of-jail-free- passes in life and that every action has a consequence. Yes, I do realize the horrible things that come with having a baby at a young age, but if a baby couldn't be aborted, wouldn't that provide a huge reason not to have sex?

i agree with this

but one thing that i hate is woman that get partial birth abortions
thats one of the dumbest things ever.
why kill perfectly good babies that could be given up for adoption?

[lauren<3s music]

Some facts about abortion for those who haven't taken the time to research the subject before formulating an opinion...

Do most women in the United States use contraceptives?

Almost nine in 10 women who are at risk of unintended pregnancy (women who are sexually active, able to become pregnant, and neither pregnant nor trying to become pregnant) are using a contraceptive method. (10 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#ref10))
How do poor women afford contraceptives?
More than one-third of U.S. women are eligible for publicly supported contraceptive services and supplies because their income is below 250% of the federal poverty level. Publicly funded family planning services help women to prevent an estimated 1.3 million unplanned pregnancies and 630,000 abortions each year. (15 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#ref15))Is abortion becoming less common in the United States?

Yes. After increasing between 1973 and 1980, the abortion rate has been declining overall and for most subgroups. However, it increased in 2000 among poor and low-income women (those living at less than twice the poverty level, or less than $28,300 for a family of three) and women on Medicaid.
(26 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#ref26))Do women who have an abortion want children?

Six in 10 U.S. women having abortions are already mothers. More than half intend to have (more) children in the future. (26 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#ref40))
Do women with religious affiliations have abortions?


Nearly eight in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (43% are Protestant, 27% Catholic and 8% another religion). Among all women aged 15–44, 51% are Protestant, 28% are Catholic and 5% belong to other religions. (26 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#26))

Eighty-seven percent of U.S. counties have no abortion provider; a third of women aged 15–44 live in those counties. Nearly one in four women obtaining an abortion travel more than 50 miles to reach a provider, and 8% travel more than 100 miles. (31 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#31)) It is not known how many women are unable to obtain an abortion because of distance from a provider.
Fifty-four percent of U.S. women who had an abortion in 2000 were using a method in the month they became pregnant.
What proportion of U.S. women who had an abortion in 2000 had never used contraceptives?
Eight percent had never used a contraceptive method—down from 11% in 1996. (13 (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/references.html#ref13))

[alltimehoe93]

Abortion wouldn't be a hot topic if people weren't too stupid to prevent getting pregnant.
ah thank you.

[Rodeo]

\
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the statistics of abortion before spouting off myths that women use abortions as a form of birth control to deal with casual sex.

You are clinically retarded if you believe that women don't do this. (see below).



Abortion as Birth Control

Using abortion as birth control means that abortion is being used as a back-up method to ineffective or improperly used contraception, or no contraception is being used at all. Of women having abortions,
46% did not use contraception during the month they became pregnant
8% never used a method of birth control
47% have had at least one previous abortion Although there are situations in which abortion is in response to health concerns of the mother or fetus, or in response to pregnancy arising from abuse, the majority of abortions are obtained for social and financial reasons. The primary reasons given for choosing abortion are given below.
75% say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities
about 75% say they cannot afford a child
50% do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partnerUsing abortion as birth control is not healthy physically or psychologically, and is not a mature or responsible approach to sex. Women obtaining abortions are at higher risk for reproductive tract infections, (http://www.contracept.org/stds.php) including HIV and PID. If you are using abortion as birth control, you are encouraged to rethink your sexual decisions. You might wait on sex until you find a relationship where you could continue a pregnancy (http://epigee.org/pregnancy/main.html) should one occur.



That is taken from contracept.org, for fucks sake! Grow up and do REAL research.

[lauren<3s music]

You are clinically retarded if you believe that women don't do this. I've seen this happen. It's pathetic.
wow what a come back. i'm sure there are some out there who do but BY AND LARGE the MAJORITY of abortions are not performed for this reason. And yes, I'm so sure you've seen SO many abortions.

[Rodeo]

wow what a come back. i'm sure there are some out there who do but BY AND LARGE the MAJORITY of abortions are not performed for this reason. And yes, I'm so sure you've seen SO many abortions.


Half of every woman having an abortion has had one before. That isn't by accident. (no pun intended).

[lauren<3s music]

You are clinically retarded if you believe that women don't do this. (see below).






That is taken from contracept.org, for fucks sake! Grow up and do REAL research.

wow congrats you pulled facts after i responded to you. perhaps you should try looking up the barriers to contraception.

in addition, many of those reasons that you bolded are legitimate reasons for not wanting a child.

[lauren<3s music]

Half of every woman having an abortion has had one before. That isn't by accident. (no pun intended).
and over half already have children. you have a point?

[lauren<3s music]

Oh and let's talk about the INFORMATIONAL educational bullshit site you link to versus guttmacher institute where i pulled my "so called facts" from. hmmm which one is linked to a "crisis" pregnancy centers and filled with ads about weight loss and IQ? I'm guessing its not the one which has been around for 40 years...

[lauren<3s music]

From http://contracept.org/about.php

Primary Consultant: M. T. Williams, Ph.D. has spent over 15 years counseling and assisting women in crisis. She has been an active volunteer at several pregnancy centers, including A Woman's Concern in Dorchester, Massachusetts, The Pregnancy Centers of Central Virginia, and the Westside Pregnancy Resource Center in Los Angeles, where she served as Lead Counselor.
http://contracept.org/graphics/Monnica15-bws.jpgDr. Williams has written many articles about reproductive issues and race, and has served on the board of directors of several non-profit organizations, including the OC and Spectrum Disorders Association and the Brookline Women's Shelter. Dr. Williams has lectured on teen pregnancy and related issues and has been active in helping non-profit organizations develop a web presence.
She graduated from M.I.T. in 1992 and worked in the Department of Computer Science at UCLA until June of 2000. She holds a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from the University of Virginia.
Click here (http://contracept.org/questions.php) if you need an answer to a question about birth control or pregnancy.


See http://www.virginiapregnancy.org/our-mission.aspx


Our Mission Statement

The Pregnancy Centers of Central Virginia is a life-affirming Christian ministry committed to:

HOPE through free and confidential counseling, education and medical services
HELP through free and confidential counseling, education and medical services
HEALTH by empowering individuals in making the choice for abstinence outside of marriage

HEALING through physical, emotional and spiritual support Purpose and Philosophy

As a Christian ministry our desire is to help women and men avoid painful, destructive choices as they go through a crisis pregnancy--choices they may later regret. We serve by giving women an opportunity to explore their resources and the support they have, as well as a chance to express their feelings, fears, and concerns in a non-judgmental environment.
We listen and provide support, but we do not tell women what to do. Counseling provided is not an intended substitute for professional counseling.
We are committed to integrity in dealing with clients, earning their trust, providing information and services, and eschewing any form of deception in our advertising or individual conversations.
We help women face the future with hope and constructive plans for their lives. Our services include confidential counseling for women, men and their families, medical appointments including ultrasound, parenting classes, maternity and baby clothing and furniture, a 24-hour Helpline, and much more.




Pull your "FACTS" from a real respected website and then try again.

[Rodeo]

Oh and let's talk about the INFORMATIONAL educational bullshit site you link to versus guttmacher institute where i pulled my "so called facts" from. hmmm which one is linked to a "crisis" pregnancy centers and filled with ads about weight loss and IQ? I'm guessing its not the one which has been around for 40 years...


I'm guessing you're so vocal about this because you have had one?


For the record, im not against aborts... just against them when they can be compared to deer season.

[lauren<3s music]

I'm guessing you're so vocal about this because you have had one?


For the record, im not against aborts... just against them when they can be compared to deer season.
Oh sweet jesus. Sure I'm pro-choice so clearly I must be on my way to an alley with a hanger.

Not that it is ANY of your business, but no i have not. I am a vocal proponent of the right to choose because I believe that the government has NO place in individuals medical decisions.

I'm also against the stupidity that comes with this topic, which you have so thoughtfully demonstrated here. Perhaps you should use a little tool called google and educate yourself about a topic to which you obviously have no knowledge about.

[Rodeo]

hmmm which one is linked to a "crisis" pregnancy centers and filled with ads about weight loss and IQ? I'm guessing its not the one which has been around for 40 years...

Any woman that uses abortion as birth control needs to take an IQ test . They are there for a reason.

[Rodeo]

Oh sweet jesus. Sure I'm pro-choice so clearly I must be on my way to an alley with a hanger.

Not that it is ANY of your business, but no i have not. I am a vocal proponent of the right to choose because I believe that the government has NO place in individuals medical decisions.

I'm also against the stupidity that comes with this topic, which you have so thoughtfully demonstrated here. Perhaps you should use a little tool called google and educate yourself about a topic to which you obviously have no knowledge about.


Yeah, that's a way to intelligently argue... call them stupid. how has that strategy been working out for you?

:-d

[lauren<3s music]

Any woman that uses abortion as birth control needs to take an IQ test . They are there for a reason.
for the love of all things decent why don't you stop posting in here? you're clearly ignorant, biased, and brainwashed.

and yes because internet IQ games and christian "counseling" centers go hand in hand with abortion :rolleyes: you really need to get out of your bubble and come back to reality

[lauren<3s music]

Yeah, that's a way to intelligently argue... call them stupid. how has that strategy been working out for you?

:-d
quite well actually.. when people see your version of the argument, it makes me look so much better without even trying. you should really work on that because you've yet to provide one fact from a reputable website to back up your comparison to deer season.

[Rodeo]

for the love of all things decent why don't you stop posting in here? you're clearly ignorant, biased, and brainwashed.

and yes because internet IQ games and christian "counseling" centers go hand in hand with abortion :rolleyes: you really need to get out of your bubble and come back to reality


Or.... I could be being controversial because it's really, really funny!

[lauren<3s music]

Or.... I could be being controversial because it's really, really funny!
you're not that smart. try again

[TK]

I like idiotic better than all four adjectives.

[jtsnazzy]

Child birth is the punishment for being a moron. Wrap the shit up.

[TK]

Child birth is the punishment for being a moron.

Ah, I see. The child is a punishment, a consequence. Is that what you're saying?

[Rodeo]

you're not that smart. try again


:-d


You're claiming to know me by 4 posts that I made out of entertainment (really... I called abortion as birth control 'deer season'...how serious could I possibly be?).


Stop being so uptight. Let your asshole breathe a little sometimes.

[lauren<3s music]

:-d


You're claiming to know me by 4 posts that I made out of entertainment (really... I called abortion as birth control 'deer season'...how serious could I possibly be?).


Stop being so uptight. Let your asshole breathe a little sometimes.
stupid is easy to spot.

[Tony Pascarella]

Child birth is the punishment for being a moron. Wrap the shit up.I hope no one has the low self-esteem to actually have sex with you for saying stupid things like that.

Condoms break, pills fail. That's why nothing aside from abstinence is listed as 100% effective at preventing pregnancy.

If anything it's a conversation to have going in with your partner, to know where both parties stand, and the ramifications of using contraceptives and having them potentially fail or choosing not to. Education and contraceptive availability need to be increased, period. Seems like several people in this thread could use the education aspect of it.

[jtsnazzy]

Ah, I see. The child is a punishment, a consequence. Is that what you're saying?

No, labor is the punishment.(Assuming child will be going up for adoption.)

[apoemtothedead]

No, labor is the punishment.
So they can just dump the kid in a dumpster afterward? Lesson learned.

[jtsnazzy]

Condoms break, pills fail. That's why nothing aside from abstinence is listed as 100% effective at preventing pregnancy.



In that case. Adoption. I'm referring to people who don't use preventatives or use them improperly.

[Rodeo]

stupid is easy to spot.


Still riding that 'stupid' train, huh? Got any other material?

[Rodeo]

"There's one one reason why Christian girls go to the Planned Parenthood.."


"She's planting a pipebomb?!?"


"...Okay...two reasons..."



- Saved!

[lauren<3s music]

So they can just dump the kid in a dumpster afterward? Lesson learned.
just a hop, skip, and a jump away because you know they're all done in alleys....

scary when we agree on shit.

[Tony Pascarella]

In that case. Adoption. I'm referring to people who don't use preventatives or use them improperly.Have you seen the state of the department of children and family services (or the equivalent agencies) at the state level lately? I lived in Florida for 18 years, and our DCF (who I had to deal with on a number of occasions while having a legal guardian after my parents passed away) lost at least one kid (google Rilya Wilson). We have good family friends who are foster parents (who also have one adopted daughter) in Florida, and simply put, the state is having trouble finding good homes for so many children already. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'd wager a guess that it's like that across the nation. You have a system that's already overtaxed, underfunded, and states are doing more and more to limit adoptions (see: Arkansas). This is not a system to be particularly proud of, and to just say we'll shove more kids into foster homes does not solve the problem--it only makes it worse.

[Rodeo]

This is not a system to be particularly proud of, and to just say we'll shove more kids into foster homes does not solve the problem--it only makes it worse.


True that in every way.

[Lueda Alia]

No, labor is the punishment.(Assuming child will be going up for adoption.)
Labor is punishment only for the women, and that's not fair or just. It's sexist, and it should not be allowed. It's as simple as that.

[jtsnazzy]

Have you seen the state of the department of children and family services (or the equivalent agencies) at the state level lately? I lived in Florida for 18 years, and our DCF (who I had to deal with on a number of occasions while having a legal guardian after my parents passed away) lost at least one kid (google Rilya Wilson). We have good family friends who are foster parents (who also have one adopted daughter) in Florida, and simply put, the state is having trouble finding good homes for so many children already. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'd wager a guess that it's like that across the nation. You have a system that's already overtaxed, underfunded, and states are doing more and more to limit adoptions (see: Arkansas). This is not a system to be particularly proud of, and to just say we'll shove more kids into foster homes does not solve the problem--it only makes it worse.

I'm adopted myself. I completely understand the problems inside the adoption system and the financial complications tied to it. However, abortion takes out the possibility of having a good life(like myself).

[Rodeo]

Labor is punishment only for the women, and that's not fair or just. It's sexist, and it should not be allowed. It's as simple as that.

It really really does suck. What would you suggest?

[jtsnazzy]

Labor is punishment only for the women, and that's not fair or just. It's sexist, and it should not be allowed. It's as simple as that.

I wish men had something they had to go through. My comment was half in jest. Sex is not something to be taken lightly and I want to promote accountability for your actions. I completely understand abortion for rape victims or women with medical complications. Any other reason I think is irresponsible.

[Lueda Alia]

I wish men had something they had to go through. My comment was half in jest. Sex is not something to be taken lightly and I want to promote accountability for your actions. I completely understand abortion for rape victims or women with medical complications. Any other reason I think is irresponsible.
I actually think that abortion is sometimes the responsible thing to do. Why bring a child in this world when you know you're not going to be a good parent or don't have the means to raise them?

I also don't understand this whole thing about pregnancy being some sort of punishment. Do you really want a child to be considered a punishment? "Oh by the way, I was forced to carry you to term, you piece of shit." Yeah, I'm sure the child would love to know that his or her parents never had any intentions of bringing him/her in this world. Put yourself in that kid's shoes. How would you feel if your parents told you that you were meant to be aborted but weren't only because they didn't have that option?

I just don't know how people can think that they have the right to force something so big onto someone. It's an invasion of privacy and it goes against someone's rights.

[_jonas]

I don't feel like converting anybody. I'm right. I'm science. Blah blah blah. It really is that simple.
A choice that shouldn't be taken lightly, yet I trust the person playing the hand knows what's right based on their situation.

[Lueda Alia]

I'm adopted myself. I completely understand the problems inside the adoption system and the financial complications tied to it. However, abortion takes out the possibility of having a good life(like myself).
Or maybe it just saves someone from leading a miserable life? You were lucky, but your case is rare.

[jtsnazzy]

I just don't know how people can think that they have the right to force something so big onto someone. It's an invasion of privacy and it goes against someone's rights.

That's why it is simply irresponsible. Nobody forced anything on them, if you make the decision to have sex you should be able to understand the ramifications of your action.

[jtsnazzy]

Or maybe it just saves someone from leading a miserable life? You were lucky, but your case is rare.

You prefer to take the glass half empty approach.

[Lueda Alia]

That's why it is simply irresponsible. Nobody forced anything on them, if you make the decision to have sex you should be able to understand the ramifications of your action.
How is it irresponsible? You're assuming that everyone that has an abortion is a stupid teenager who had drunk sex and then regretted it after. That's simply not the case. Responsible adults get pregnant because protection is not 100% safe.

And yes, you would be forcing the women to be pregnant for 9 months against their will. I don't how that can sit right with anyone. It might be easy for men to be OK with it because they will never experience it, but that doesn't make it right. It's injustice at its finest.

[Lueda Alia]

You prefer to take the glass half empty approach.
No, I just look at statistics.

[apoemtothedead]

No, I just look at statistics.
There you liberals go again with your statistics and facts.

[jtsnazzy]

How is it irresponsible? You're assuming that everyone that has an abortion is a stupid teenager who had drunk sex and then regretted it after. That's simply not the case. Responsible adults get pregnant because protection is not 100% safe.

And yes, you would be forcing the women to be pregnant for 9 months against their will. I don't how that can sit right with anyone. It might be easy for men to be OK with it because they will never experience it, but that doesn't make it right. It's injustice at its finest.

No, I'm not assuming that, you are for me. It's injustice that the purpose of sex is actually followed through on?

[Lueda Alia]

No, I'm not assuming that, you are for me. It's injustice that the purpose of sex is actually followed through on?
Haha the purpose of sex? Please don't tell me that you'll start telling me about how sex is not meant for pleasure but just for reproduction.

People have different definitions of the word/act, so try to respect that.

[Rodeo]

Yeah, dolphins = people.



They know what's up.



Sex for pleasure.

[jtsnazzy]

Haha the purpose of sex? Please don't tell me that you'll start telling me about how sex is not meant for pleasure but just for reproduction.

People have different definitions of the word/act, so try to respect that.

Obviously sex is used for pleasure as well but that doesn't change the argument any.

[Lueda Alia]

Obviously sex is used for pleasure as well but that doesn't change the argument any.
It sure does change it.That's not even an argument at all. I'm sorry, but I find that to be ignorant. If sex was only meant for reproduction, then it wouldn't be pleasurable. God clearly wanted people to enjoy it, otherwise he would have just made it a pain to go through. Don't you think?