View Full Version : The Prince by Machiavelli
I am going to have to read this for one of my classes.
How is it? Still relevant?
emo_boo
10/27/08, 08:23 AM
I hated it, maybe it was because I had to read for class.
billy_yo
10/27/08, 08:26 AM
isn't that the "the ends justify the means"
TJ Wells
10/27/08, 08:48 AM
I am going to have to read this for one of my classes.
How is it? Still relevant?
I read it by choice. Very fascinating.
boykosaurus
10/27/08, 09:25 AM
Machiavelli can suck one.
unwritten
10/27/08, 09:34 AM
Tupac what what.
saysmydoctor
10/27/08, 09:46 AM
It is an amazing text whether you agree with it or not.
Hitler's bedside reading.
apoemtothedead
10/27/08, 10:22 AM
It'll be the best book you have to read for this class.
Jason Tate
10/27/08, 10:31 AM
One of 3 books I read every single year - absolutely brilliant. Hopefully you get a good translation.
s.t.e.v.e.n.
10/27/08, 10:35 AM
the other two?
One of 3 books I read every single year - absolutely brilliant. Hopefully you get a good translation.
Which translation would you recommend? Reading the book and writing about it is one of a few options we have for our final paper, so I have to purchase the book myself.
Hitler's bedside reading.
You're thinking of Thoreau...
Jason Tate
10/27/08, 12:16 PM
Which translation would you recommend? Reading the book and writing about it is one of a few options we have for our final paper, so I have to purchase the book myself.
Depends if you want something easier to read - or something more akin to the tone of the original. The heavily footnoted version by Angelo Codevilla explains the translation and from the original - and why it's more accurate. It's my favorite, however, it's more difficult to read.
Depends if you want something easier to read - or something more akin to the tone of the original. The heavily footnoted version by Angelo Codevilla explains the translation and from the original - and why it's more accurate. It's my favorite, however, it's more difficult to read.
Hmm. Thanks, I'll look into it and keep the Codevilla translation in mind.
You're thinking of Thoreau...
No I'm not.
http://www.amazon.com/Machiavelli-Philosopher-Power-Eminent-Lives/dp/0060817178
King points out that a well-worn edition accompanied Napoleon Bonaparte to the Battle of Waterloo and Adolph Hitler kept a copy on his bedside table.
It is also in the introduction to my copy. I was not trying to make a negative comment towards the book, I loved it. I just thought it was interesting.
No I'm not.
http://daftest.livejournal.com/8079.html
http://www.amazon.com/Machiavelli-Philosopher-Power-Eminent-Lives/dp/0060817178
King points out that a well-worn edition accompanied Napoleon Bonaparte to the Battle of Waterloo and Adolph Hitler kept a copy on his bedside table.
It is also in the introduction to my copy. I was not trying to make a negative comment towards the book, I loved it. I just thought it was interesting.
Oh, I didn't doubt it was true. My point was that it made more sense for Hitler to read thoreau than Machiavelli, as Thoreau was closer to his view. I'm in a very hating Thoreau mood right now.
Oh I hate him too. Walden was unbearably boring.
Oh I hate him too. Walden was unbearably boring.
It's like Nietzsche but worse... and with trees. And NATURE
Jason Tate
10/27/08, 01:05 PM
Guess I'm one of the view that love Thoreau.
Probably because I had to read it for class a long time ago that I didn't appreciate it.
Jason Tate
10/27/08, 01:16 PM
Civil Disobedience is great.
Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men generally, under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy is worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to be on the alert to point out its faults, and do better than it would have them? Why does it always crucify Christ, and excommunicate Copernicus and Luther, and pronounce Washington and Franklin rebels?
s.t.e.v.e.n.
10/27/08, 01:21 PM
Civil Disobedience is certainly great
I am actually reading it again right now
Guess I'm one of the view that love Thoreau.
Civil Disobedience is a fine piece of work. However, transcendentalism as a whole and especially the aspect of it that Thoreau embodies is responsible for many horrible acts.
goodarmcindy
10/28/08, 07:14 AM
I am currently reading Machiavelli for a class but I have previously read it for personal enjoyment. Whether you agree with it or not it is fascinating and amazingly relevant. State-making and security examples are made even more poignant by the events that are currently transpiring in Iraq.
"a wise prince must cunningly foster some hostile action, whenever he has the opportunity, so that in repressing it his greatness will emerge all the more"
Domenic182
10/28/08, 12:35 PM
Tupac what what.
I was just gonna post this, luckily I scanned the thread first for it.
I ended up buying this (http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/0143036335/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225303655&sr=8-1) version because there were way too many options in the book store to choose from (no Codevilla, though, in case you're curious). It's interesting so far, but I get the feeling that I'm going to have to read it twice to better grasp hold of it.
Broken Parachute
10/29/08, 11:13 AM
Guess I'm one of the view that love Thoreau.You aren't alone.
And I also liked The Prince. Definitely a good read.
sdbrown
10/29/08, 11:28 AM
isn't that the "the ends justify the means"
I think that's Bentham and/or John Mill.
I had to read that back in Freshman year. It's brilliant, though I don't think I'd chose to read it if it wasn't assigned.
Depends if you want something easier to read - or something more akin to the tone of the original. The heavily footnoted version by Angelo Codevilla explains the translation and from the original - and why it's more accurate. It's my favorite, however, it's more difficult to read.
I just bought the Codevilla translation at Borders. I liked the book a lot (I bought the George Bull translation after I made this thread), but I feel like it could have been a lot more, I don't know, substantial? And after reading a few sentences from the Codevilla translation, I already think I'm correct.
Same problem with The Art of War. I read it a couple of weeks ago and I felt like I should have gotten MUCH more from it, so I read a few parts of another translation and it was obviously much better. I actually feel cheated, haha.
Jason Tate
12/17/08, 06:56 PM
I just bought the Codevilla translation at Borders. I liked the book a lot (I bought the George Bull translation after I made this thread), but I feel like it could have been a lot more, I don't know, substantial? And after reading a few sentences from the Codevilla translation, I already think I'm correct.
Same problem with The Art of War. I read it a couple of weeks ago and I felt like I should have gotten MUCH more from it, so I read a few parts of another translation and it was obviously much better. I actually feel cheated, haha.
I know what you mean - I've done that quite a few times.
vasallenstaat
01/02/09, 07:17 PM
I'm half-way through. Honestly, I think its good reading even if you don't have to read it. It helps you understand the government in certain parts, as well as a good history lesson. The philosophies behind Machiavelli's teachings can be applied to everyday life. So take it a page at a time, and read between the lines. I admit sometimes I had to reread sections to grasp it, even though I've had a high reading level since 5th grade. If yo try and think of it in your own terms, you are bound to enjoy it!
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