Dear Red States,

[guitarliketom]

My hippie Liberal Dad sent me this. I got a good laugh out of it.

Dear Red States,


We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes: California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms. Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq , and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Berkeley, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred
unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent say that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Peace out,
Blue States

[HashHolly]

My hippie Liberal Dad sent me this. I got a good laugh out of it.

Dear Red States,


We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes: California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms. Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq , and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Berkeley, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred
unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent say that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Peace out,
Blue States

Im Hash Holly, and i approved this message, may Civil War, Pt2 commence.

[boykosaurus]

heh, gave me a chuckle.

[saysmydoctor]

:appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:

[Nevuk]

The anti-south rhetoric is baffling, personally.
The South is an oppressed region. After the Civil War carbet-bagging and similar practices were extremely damaging to it, the entire area has not returned to pre Civil War levels of production.

I'm a southerner. A self-loathing one, yes, but I am one. It's a horrible area, but it has had twin fangs of ignorance and poverty forced upon it, and it rejoices in it. This goes back to antebellum era. The majority of the people who fought for the south in the civil war were poor whites who didn't own slaves. And I mean extremely poor, you continually read stories about them not being able to afford shoes.

Gandhi said poverty is the root of all violence. It is reprehensible to attempt to cast the red states as the root of the problem, and a false dichotomy. Are democrats really that different from Republicans? No. And that's part of their own problem, that the associate basic differences of morality with political party when it really doesn't exist. But the majority of the people on this site are just as guilty of this as demonstrated by that sentiment. This is the most liberal place in Kentucky, my university. It falls into that trap so it's been pissing me off lately. What gives you the right to characterize yourself as universally better than a broad group of people? Why do you assume you would be any different in that situation? Go to a southern Christian church for 17 years, be exposed to their dogmatic rhetoric and brainwashing techniques. Then realize that they aren't even aware of what they're doing, and that much of it is pulled from the same pages of englightenment techniques your precious liberalism is a descendent of.

A side note- most of my friends are bi-dialectical. I'm actually capable of speaking in 3 dialects, just picked it up (Appalachian, Southern and what I naturally speak which drops all l's and throws dipthongs all over the place but is hyper-enunciated). However most of them were forced to learn a non-southern accent so as to not be stereotyped. It's pretty much a prerequisite to not be taken as a joke in certain circles.

[guitarliketom]

The anti-south rhetoric is baffling, personally.
The South is an oppressed region. After the Civil War carbet-bagging and similar practices were extremely damaging to it, the entire area has not returned to pre Civil War levels of production.

I'm a southerner. A self-loathing one, yes, but I am one. It's a horrible area, but it has had twin fangs of ignorance and poverty forced upon it, and it rejoices in it. This goes back to antebellum era. The majority of the people who fought for the south in the civil war were poor whites who didn't own slaves. And I mean extremely poor, you continually read stories about them not being able to afford shoes.

Gandhi said poverty is the root of all violence. It is reprehensible to attempt to cast the red states as the root of the problem, and a false dichotomy. Are democrats really that different from Republicans? No. And that's part of their own problem, that the associate basic differences of morality with political party when it really doesn't exist. But the majority of the people on this site are just as guilty of this as demonstrated by that sentiment. This is the most liberal place in Kentucky, my university. It falls into that trap so it's been pissing me off lately. What gives you the right to characterize yourself as universally better than a broad group of people? Why do you assume you would be any different in that situation? Go to a southern Christian church for 17 years, be exposed to their dogmatic rhetoric and brainwashing techniques. Then realize that they aren't even aware of what they're doing, and that much of it is pulled from the same pages of englightenment techniques your precious liberalism is a descendent of.

A side note- most of my friends are bi-dialectical. I'm actually capable of speaking in 3 dialects, just picked it up (Appalachian, Southern and what I naturally speak which drops all l's and throws dipthongs all over the place but is hyper-enunciated). However most of them were forced to learn a non-southern accent so as to not be stereotyped. It's pretty much a prerequisite to not be taken as a joke in certain circles.

so that part is like Leo in the departed when marky mark is ripping into him for using two different accents around his different friends?

[Nevuk]

so that part is like Leo in the departed when marky mark is ripping into him for using two different accents around his different friends?
Yeah. No one really cares if you have a boston-irish accent, but the entirety of southern accents possess negative intellectual prestige. It's kind of a chicken and egg dilemma : Are people in the south proud of being ignorant and exaggerate their accent for effect, or does having their accent automatically be considered a sign of stupidity the source?

Edit : And no one from the south considers it bad to try and cover up a southern accent.

[Anton Djamoos]

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Argument ruined for me.

[sjb2k1]

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Argument ruined for me.actually i thought that was a great selling point.

[Anton Djamoos]

actually i thought that was a great selling point.
For a well thought out and eloquently put argument of the differences between the states, it was completely unnecessary.

[HashHolly]

As long as South Florida isn't considered a red state im all for it.

Fun Fact: North Florida wants to succeed from the rest of the state, making this truly possible.

[guitarliketom]

As long as South Florida isn't considered a red state im all for it.

Fun Fact: North Florida wants to succeed from the rest of the state, making this truly possible.

North Jersey wanted to do that a while ago

[guitarliketom]

For a well thought out and eloquently put argument of the differences between the states, it was completely unnecessary.

I find it humorous because while it is just generalizing all Southerners it caps it up with their generalization of liberals that "we're all just a bunch of liberal hippie stoners still"

[sjb2k1]

For a well thought out and eloquently put argument of the differences between the states, it was completely unnecessary.eh, difference of opinion. i thought it was funny. and from experience, pretty true.

[bluecrunchy]

I'm down for another civil war. I can't remember where I left my musket, though.

[Nevuk]

Actually, the best pot is grown in Kentucky and almost everyone has gotten high, and if they wanted to could get high fairly easily. In short, it's the #1 cash crop here, and it is everywhere. (There is a bit of really good stuff grown in New York as well). You can't actually take the good pot because... it's grown here.

[kaycey]

quick question, which states have approved the legalization of marijuana?

[HashHolly]

North Jersey wanted to do that a while ago

Fuck Mickey Mouse, im all for it, haha

[Anton Djamoos]

North Jersey wanted to do that a while ago
How long ago?

[guitarliketom]

How long ago?

from what I heard LONG ago. My buddy works in political office so he hears some silly things

[AP_Punk]

C I V I L W A R

[tambam]

Amazing.

[sdbrown]

Tempting, but the south grows all the peanuts. I love peanuts.

Can't we just let the confederacy succeed and let the cool southern people stay with us?

[Burn That Shit]

I thought it was pretty funny.

[Yes. And?]

Pretty sure I read this four years ago. I wouldn't be terribly opposed, haha.

[GRIFFARD]

I like it and would be SO over that. I agree the marijuana bit was very weakening though

[WFUJerseyJon]

That was hilarious.

[x togepi x]

i'm down for this. i wouldn't mind bathing in the blood of yankee scum.

[eMart]

quick question, which states have approved the legalization of marijuana?
None, but I think a few, I'm sure CA, have legalized it for medicinal use. But it's still illegal on a federal level which means the FBI can bust someone in CA for using it despite having the medical permission to do so. Yeah, it's insane.

[kaycey]

None, but I think a few, I'm sure CA, have legalized it for medicinal use. But it's still illegal on a federal level which means the FBI can bust someone in CA for using it despite having the medical permission to do so. Yeah, it's insane.
whoa!!! so weird, doesn't that contradict the whole thing.

[djUbilla]

You had me until Clemson.

Actually, you never had me. But it was pretty damn funny. Kudos.

[Machu505]

I'd move to the blue state nation.

[imahoodlum]

I would be for this. However, I would get the fuck out of Texas first.

[Yes. And?]

It'd be a nation of cities and college towns more than anything else. Which I'm down for, lol.

[what_ever]

i'm down for this. i wouldn't mind bathing in the blood of yankee scum.

it's funny because that's a very real viewpoint in my part of the country. I appreciate good satire.

[open mind]

Actually, the best pot is grown in Kentucky and almost everyone has gotten high, and if they wanted to could get high fairly easily. In short, it's the #1 cash crop here, and it is everywhere. (There is a bit of really good stuff grown in New York as well). You can't actually take the good pot because... it's grown here.

alaska has some killer bud too......there seems to be a pattern emerging concerning the red states.

[thespearkid]

This is fucking stupid. For all the progress we've supposedly made, it's very weird to see so many people prejudging others based on whether or not they live in the South. Liberal hippie, my ass.

[&IllBeTheReason]

As long as South Florida isn't considered a red state im all for it.

Fun Fact: North Florida wants to succeed from the rest of the state, making this truly possible.
Hahahaa, we had a good laugh about that at my school. We would benefit more than they would.

[CTMarshall]

haha...I'm not really a fan of the jab at Alabama, but whatever. Most of it's true. I would just come join you guys (or yall if you're from the South) in the Blue.

[1.8Nate]

The anti-south rhetoric is baffling, personally.
The South is an oppressed region. After the Civil War carbet-bagging and similar practices were extremely damaging to it, the entire area has not returned to pre Civil War levels of production.

I'm a southerner. A self-loathing one, yes, but I am one. It's a horrible area, but it has had twin fangs of ignorance and poverty forced upon it, and it rejoices in it. This goes back to antebellum era. The majority of the people who fought for the south in the civil war were poor whites who didn't own slaves. And I mean extremely poor, you continually read stories about them not being able to afford shoes.

Gandhi said poverty is the root of all violence. It is reprehensible to attempt to cast the red states as the root of the problem, and a false dichotomy. Are democrats really that different from Republicans? No. And that's part of their own problem, that the associate basic differences of morality with political party when it really doesn't exist. But the majority of the people on this site are just as guilty of this as demonstrated by that sentiment. This is the most liberal place in Kentucky, my university. It falls into that trap so it's been pissing me off lately. What gives you the right to characterize yourself as universally better than a broad group of people? Why do you assume you would be any different in that situation? Go to a southern Christian church for 17 years, be exposed to their dogmatic rhetoric and brainwashing techniques. Then realize that they aren't even aware of what they're doing, and that much of it is pulled from the same pages of englightenment techniques your precious liberalism is a descendent of.

A side note- most of my friends are bi-dialectical. I'm actually capable of speaking in 3 dialects, just picked it up (Appalachian, Southern and what I naturally speak which drops all l's and throws dipthongs all over the place but is hyper-enunciated). However most of them were forced to learn a non-southern accent so as to not be stereotyped. It's pretty much a prerequisite to not be taken as a joke in certain circles.

Maybe they didn't own them, but they were fighting to own them.

Karma.

[1.8Nate]

One more thing, the south CHOSE to not be a part of what the North was doing. While the North was starting to provide education and assembly lines, the South wanted to be little twats about it and not have a part in the vastly growing economic and technologic times. They would rather own slaves and "tend to mah daddy's cotton farm".

The South fucking oppressed themselves and put themselves into poverty. Being racist bigots will do that to people. I'm appalled that someone could actually think that poverty and oppression have been forced upon these rednecks.

[salad fingers]

I laff'd. Yai.

[myplanforescape]

One more thing, the south CHOSE to not be a part of what the North was doing. While the North was starting to provide education and assembly lines, the South wanted to be little twats about it and not have a part in the vastly growing economic and technologic times. They would rather own slaves and "tend to mah daddy's cotton farm".

The South fucking oppressed themselves and put themselves into poverty. Being racist bigots will do that to people. I'm appalled that someone could actually think that poverty and oppression have been forced upon these rednecks.

Cotton was the pretty much the South's entire economy, that isn't something that can be switched easily. The way the South was set up they had very few large cities, most of it was spread out plantations and homes and that didn't really allow for factories or public schools.

You want to talk about the South being racist bigots but its not like the majority of the people from the North were against slavery. Its very misleading to judge a past time by the moral standards we have today. I'm appalled that you think just because the South couldn't effectively move away from the entire basis of their economy that you think they deserve to be oppressed.

[1.8Nate]

Cotton was the pretty much the South's entire economy, that isn't something that can be switched easily. The way the South was set up they had very few large cities, most of it was spread out plantations and homes and that didn't really allow for factories or public schools.

You want to talk about the South being racist bigots but its not like the majority of the people from the North were against slavery. Its very misleading to judge a past time by the moral standards we have today. I'm appalled that you think just because the South couldn't effectively move away from the entire basis of their economy that you think they deserve to be oppressed.

They were a bunch of racist rednecks who wanted slavery and a lot of them still have this mindset. It's not any deeper than that and it's sad that you support that.

[eraserhead]

hahaha. I like the idea.

[uglystar03]

I live in an extremely red state and honestly, its not that bad.

[myplanforescape]

They were a bunch of racist rednecks who wanted slavery. It's not any deeper than that and it's sad that you support that.

Nowhere did I say I support slavery and it is deeper than that. It was an established system that the north helped create, it can't just get rid of something like that overnight. And to claim that all of the South "were a bunch of racist rednecks who wanted slavery" is a sweeping generalization that doesn't hold true. The North for the most part was just as racist as the South. Nowhere did you respond to any of my points rather you falsely made an attack on my character. To continue to stereotype people from the South today as racist and close-minded is something I take great offense to because I live in the South and I promise you I am neither racist nor close-minded.

[aoftbsten]

I'm down for another civil war. I can't remember where I left my musket, though.

haha, this made me laugh

[anamericangod]

I am pretty sure that 95% of all the hate and bullshit directed towards the south is completely understandable and warranted. With the exceptions of a few metropolitan areas, this region is a cultural time warp/black hole.

Hahaha I just noticed they mentioned University of Georgia. Fuck that place.

[1.8Nate]

Nowhere did I say I support slavery and it is deeper than that. It was an established system that the north helped create, it can't just get rid of something like that overnight. And to claim that all of the South "were a bunch of racist rednecks who wanted slavery" is a sweeping generalization that doesn't hold true. The North for the most part was just as racist as the South. Nowhere did you respond to any of my points rather you falsely made an attack on my character. To continue to stereotype people from the South today as racist and close-minded is something I take great offense to because I live in the South and I promise you I am neither racist nor close-minded.

No, it's not deeper than that. Quit trying to justify the actions of you and your friend's great great grandpas. The reason I said "karma" in my first post, is because I'm not going to feel bad for a group of people that tried to oppress an entire race of people, and are now "oppressed" themselves. It's actually kind of ironic.

Oh and read what anamericangod said above me, it's on point.

[aoftbsten]

even though i love rubbing the civil war in my southern friends faces, i totally think it would have been less hassle if we just let them go.

interesting thought: the south used to be the rebellious part of the nation that wanted to be its own. now it's probably the most patriotic part of the country

[1.8Nate]

even though i love rubbing the civil war in my southern friends faces, i totally think it would have been less hassle if we just let them go.

interesting thought: the south used to be the rebellious part of the nation that wanted to be its own. now it's probably the most patriotic part of the country

If by "patriotic" you mean loving George Bush, having confederate flag stickers on their trucks, and hating minorities, then yeah, they're patriotic.

[aoftbsten]

If by "patriotic" you mean loving George Bush, having confederate flag stickers on their trucks, and hating minorities, then yeah, they're patriotic.

yes yes i make fun of the south a lot to using these stereotypes, but frankly, non of the southerners are actually like this. true some can be a bit ignorant at times, but most of them are just plain good people.

what i was saying was that if i took all the southerners and northerners i know took a test showing who loves their country more, the southerners would win

[myplanforescape]

No, it's not deeper than that. Quit trying to justify the actions of you and your friend's great great grandpas. The reason I said "karma" in my first post, is because I'm not going to feel bad for a group of people that tried to oppress an entire race of people, and are now "oppressed" themselves. It's actually kind of ironic.

Oh and read what anamericangod said above me, it's on point.

I'm the first member of my family to be born in the South, my great great grandparents came from Mexico, my parents from Michigan. Why is it so hard for you to understand that not everyone in the South is racist, in fact the majority of people I have encountered in my 18 years of living in Tennessee have not been racist. Back then they had a different moral system than us, I'm not saying it was right but its not anymore right for an entire region to be oppressed and stereotyped due to something that was beyond their control. Also just because slavery wasn't as prevalent in the North doesn't mean they didn't oppress an entire race of people either, where is their karma?

[1.8Nate]

yes yes i make fun of the south a lot to using these stereotypes, but frankly, non of the southerners are actually like this. true some can be a bit ignorant at times, but most of them are just plain good people.

what i was saying was that if i took all the southerners and northerners i know took a test showing who loves their country more, the southerners would win

That's weird though, even living Missouri (not that south), the entire town were those stereotypes. Atleast 95% of them. Gay bashings, outcasting of people who didn't listen to country music, outcasting of people who didn't go to a southern baptist church, rebel flags everywhere, and that's not even half of it. High school was hell for me because of it and I moved after I graduated.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I live in an extremely red state and honestly, its not that bad.
Yeah, I mean the people may be pretty damn ignorant here and religious but it isn't like they are Crypto-Fascists or something.

Then again I live in an area that isn't all that bad, my precinct voted for Bush above 75% and in downtown Coeur D' Alene Kerry actually won, but there are places in Idaho where over 90% of people voted for Bush. Thank god I don't live there.

[Machu505]

That's weird though, even living Missouri (not that south), the entire town were those stereotypes. Atleast 95% of them. Gay bashings, outcasting of people who didn't listen to country music, outcasting of people who didn't go to a southern baptist church, rebel flags everywhere, and that's not even half of it. High school was hell for me because of it and I moved after I graduated.

I live in "The Most Northern City of the South and the Most Southern City of the North" and I see those stereotypes all day every day.

[1.8Nate]

I'm the first member of my family to be born in the South, my great great grandparents came from Mexico, my parents from Michigan. Why is it so hard for you to understand that not everyone in the South is racist, in fact the majority of people I have encountered in my 18 years of living in Tennessee have not been racist. Back then they had a different moral system than us, I'm not saying it was right but its not anymore right for an entire region to be oppressed and stereotyped due to something that was beyond their control. Also just because slavery wasn't as prevalent in the North doesn't mean they didn't oppress an entire race of people either, where is their karma?

I never said all people in the South were racist, but a lot are.

Say what you want, but in the end people in the North gave their lives for the cause.

[1.8Nate]

Then again I live in an area that isn't all that bad, my precinct voted for Bush above 75%

If 75% is GOOD there, I will never go to Idaho.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I post this for people who don't think a good portion of the south is racist:
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/img.php?year=2004&st=AL&type=map&off=51&fips=1&elect=0
This is a county map on voting for an amendment to the Alabama constiution that would repeal language making segregation legal in schools, and repeal the poll tax.
The amendment failed by a very slim margin, green is voting for the amendment, and red against. This vote happened in 2004.

[1.8Nate]

I post this for people who don't think a good portion of the south is racist:
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/img.php?year=2004&st=AL&type=map&off=51&fips=1&elect=0
This is a county map on voting for an amendment to the Alabama constiution that would repeal language making segregation legal in schools, and repeal the poll tax.
The amendment failed by a very slim margin, green is voting for the amendment, and red against. This vote happened in 2004.

And people say the South isn't still racist, haha.

[myplanforescape]

I never said all people in the South were racist, but a lot are.

Say what you want, but in the end people in the North gave their lives for the cause.

You're right you never said they were all racist but you pretty much claimed they all deserve to be oppressed which is where I disagreed with you because the South has plenty of excellent people.

The Civil War didn't start out about slavery but rather keeping the South from succession. It didn't become about slavery until Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation with was more to keep the British from aiding the South rather than actually doing away with slavery.

[Machu505]

You're right you never said they were all racist but you pretty much claimed they all deserve to be oppressed which is where I disagreed with you because the South has plenty of excellent people.

The Civil War didn't start out about slavery but rather keeping the South from succession. It didn't become about slavery until Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation with was more to keep the British from aiding the South rather than actually doing away with slavery.

The Civil War was mainly about slavery. The north was eliminating it while the south wanted to keep it. The whole state's rights thing got entangled into the slavery thing later, then South Carolina seceded.

[myplanforescape]

The Civil War was mainly about slavery. The north was eliminating it while the south wanted to keep it. The whole state's rights thing got entangled into the slavery thing later, then South Carolina seceded.

Slavery was one cause of the Civil War but it was mainly about succession. Lincoln even ran on the platform that he didn't want to get rid of slavery he only wanted to stop it from spreading West and the states with slaves currently could keep them. He believed the states didn't have the right to succeed and thats what started the Civil War, slavery was more of an after thought to keep the British from aiding the South, because the British wanted to see America divided and weak.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Slavery was one cause of the Civil War but it was mainly about succession. Lincoln even ran on the platform that he didn't want to get rid of slavery he only wanted to stop it from spreading West and the states with slaves currently could keep them. He believed the states didn't have the right to succeed and thats what started the Civil War, slavery was more of an after thought to keep the British from aiding the South, because the British wanted to see America divided and weak.
I'm sorry but that is just a stupid argument. The South certainly did not break off from the Union because Lincoln didn't think they had the right to. Hell that doesn't even make sense.

[Machu505]

I'm sorry but that is just a stupid argument. The South certainly did not break off from the Union because Lincoln didn't think they had the right to. Hell that doesn't even make sense.

"Ah fuck it, we'll show this Lincoln dude that we can secede."

[1.8Nate]

You're right you never said they were all racist but you pretty much claimed they all deserve to be oppressed which is where I disagreed with you because the South has plenty of excellent people.

The Civil War didn't start out about slavery but rather keeping the South from succession. It didn't become about slavery until Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation with was more to keep the British from aiding the South rather than actually doing away with slavery.

The ones that wave around confederate flags and "embrace" everything that the South once stood for do deserve to be oppressed, like I said, karma.

[myplanforescape]

I'm sorry but that is just a stupid argument. The South certainly did not break off from the Union because Lincoln didn't think they had the right to. Hell that doesn't even make sense.

They broke off from the union for other reasons, such as by stopping the spread of slavery into new states it would mean they would be under represented in Congress and have less power which is what Lincoln's election meant to them. The fighting started because Lincoln believed they didn't have the right to do that so he sent troops to forcefully keep them in the union. I hope that clears up what I said.

[myplanforescape]

The ones that wave around confederate flags and "embrace" everything that the South once stood for do deserve to be oppressed, like I said, karma.

I would say that no one deserves to be oppressed, and even if they did, by oppressing that select group of people it affects those around them who don't deserve to be.

[1.8Nate]

I would say that no one deserves to be oppressed, and even if they did, by oppressing that select group of people it affects those around them who don't deserve to be.

If a person still thinks we should have slaves, and that "white people'' are better than other people, they deserve bad things to happen to them.

[myplanforescape]

If a person still thinks we should have slaves, and that "white people'' are better than other people, they deserve bad things to happen to them.

I think it should be more about educating people then oppressing them though, because by oppressing them you only create an environment where those same negative ideals breed and adds a feeling of resentment.

[1.8Nate]

I think it should be more about educating people then oppressing them though, because by oppressing them you only create an environment where those same negative ideals breed and adds a feeling of resentment.

You can't educate a racist to not be racist.

[myplanforescape]

You can't educate a racist to not be racist.

I think there is evidence that some people change, but really what I meant and should have said is educate the new generations, teach kids from the beginning that people are people and equal regardless of things like skin color and sexual orientation. While sad that that has to be taught, its necessary in some areas.

[1.8Nate]

I think there is evidence that some people change, but really what I meant and should have said is educate the new generations, teach kids from the beginning that people are people and equal regardless of things like skin color and sexual orientation. While sad that that has to be taught, its necessary in some areas.

I agree.

[myplanforescape]

I agree.

I guess all that is left for me to say then is that despite disagreeing at points I enjoyed our discussion.

[1.8Nate]

I guess all that is left for me to say then is that despite disagreeing at points I enjoyed our discussion.

For sure!

[Roboman]

Tempting, but the south grows all the peanuts. I love peanuts.

Can't we just let the confederacy succeed and let the cool southern people stay with us?

Secede.

[sdbrown]

Secede.
d'oh, thank you. I knew that didn't look right but the dictionary didn't help :\

[uglystar03]

If 75% is GOOD there, I will never go to Idaho.

Just because we're a state full of conservatives, doesn't mean its a bad place to visit. Idaho is a wonderful and beautiful place.

[1.8Nate]

Just because we're a state full of conservatives, doesn't mean its a bad place to visit. Idaho is a wonderful and beautiful place.

I like my mountains better :-p

[screamoutmyname]

hahaha excellent

[mybreakingpoint]

ahaha I got a nice chuckle out of this.

[oldwirehands]

The majority of good herb is grown in California. But I'd have to say BC bud is the best and its not even in our country.

And lolz at mexican dirt weed.

The red states do suck. Indiana is pretty horrible.

[incredulous]

I like being a liberal freedom-hating Yankee.

[Lueda Alia]

That reminded me of this (http://www.fuckthesouth.com/). That made me feel good after the horrible election.

[gusta0117]

i remember when there were 19 blue and 31 red states last presidential election

[SgtFumunda]

I think it should be more about educating people then oppressing them though, because by oppressing them you only create an environment where those same negative ideals breed and adds a feeling of resentment.
This is the best point you made the entire argument. People with the mindset that this letter exemplifies actually have no desire to see a true "change" in this country.

The South has some of the poorest states in the country...and some of the blackest. So, it isn't just "racist, white Rednecks" that are suffering, as 1.8 Nate so feebly argued. As a matter of fact, I haven't read anywhere where anyone made a good, "progressive" argument for why the South and other Red States are problematic. Blaming violence, oppression, and poverty on culture and deep-seated prejudices only works with "progressive liberals" when they're discussing inner-city minorities, not whole regions like the South. I'm sure the letter was written in good fun, but the fact that some people in the thread are genuinely trying to defend its sentiments is ridiculous. That's not an argument for "change" at all, and the belief that the people in these areas cannot change and deserve poverty and oppression is regressive. Arguing that people deserve bad things because of something perpetrated by their ancestors is an archaic belief and a stupid fucking argument.

Also, it's worth noting that myplanforescape and I are both from a region (East TN) that in the Civil War would have become its own state and been part of the Union if the TN state government hadn't sent Confederate troops to prevent it from doing so.

EDIT: I would also like to ask, if people from blue states find our region so detestable, then why do they continually move down here, buy our cheaper property, level the old houses on them and live here? (And of course, complain about the slower ways of life.)

[GuitarR0cker1]

That reminded me of this (http://www.fuckthesouth.com/). That made me feel good after the horrible election.
That was tremendously kick ass and accurate at the same time.

[Ben09]

My hippie Liberal Dad sent me this. I got a good laugh out of it.

Dear Red States,


We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes: California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms. Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq , and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Berkeley, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred
unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent say that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Peace out,
Blue States

Rice, Vanderbilt, UT at Austin, Duke, etc...

[Jumpoff]

I'm sorry but that is just a stupid argument. The South certainly did not break off from the Union because Lincoln didn't think they had the right to. Hell that doesn't even make sense.

The South seceded because Lincoln won the election without receiving a single southern electoral vote.. they believed that their states' rights were being infringed upon and they had the right to secede if they wanted to.. slavery was NOT the major factor at all.

The north was against freeing slaves too. If you remember, the guys who were running against Lincoln for the democratic nomination wanted to abolish slavery but were considered too radical and weren't chosen for that very reason. I would've much rather had Seward (one of his "radical" opponents) elected than Lincoln (though Lincoln did make these opponents members of his cabinet).

I saw far more racism when I lived in Pennsylvania than I do down here in Florida. Especially when Hilary Clinton came to town for the St. Patrick's day parade in Scranton. She had some supporters who were actually driving around town throwing beer bottles from their car and screaming at people who weren't white because they figured they'd be voting Obama. Aside from just that, the hammerskins are largely based in NEPA.. And this is in the state that was the first to have groups that were antislavery. Racism is far from limited by state boundaries.

[ArTkY_]

So stupid. I really don't mind living down here. You get your fair share of ignorance from pretty much ever state in the country. I've been referred to as a terrorist in Texas, I've been referred to as a terrorist in New York. Granted, I wish Texas wasn't as retarded as it is sometimes, but I do greatly enjoy Houston, where there's always jobs and so much of the US's economy depends on. Why is this such an ignored fact?

[1.8Nate]

The South seceded because Lincoln won the election without receiving a single southern electoral vote.. they believed that their states' rights were being infringed upon and they had the right to secede if they wanted to.. slavery was NOT the major factor at all.

The north was against freeing slaves too. If you remember, the guys who were running against Lincoln for the democratic nomination wanted to abolish slavery but were considered too radical and wasn't chosen for that very reason. I would've much rather had Seward (one of his "radical" opponents) elected than Lincoln.

I saw far more racism when I lived in Pennsylvania than I do down here in Florida. Especially when Hilary Clinton came to town for the St. Patrick's day parade in Scranton. She had some supporters who were actually driving around town throwing beer bottles from their car and screaming at people who weren't white because they figured they'd be voting Obama. Aside from just that, the hammerskins are largely based in NEPA.. And this is in the state that was the first to have groups that were antislavery. Racism is far from limited by state boundaries.

I agree that it's not limited by state boundaries, but it's concentrated in the South for the most part.

[TheWatermelon]

This is sad.We're all Americans...and not everyone is racist.....plus fuck hollywood.

[deadstar]

Nothing like messages like this to bring America together. That is Obama's goal right?

[Dre Okorley]

North Jersey wanted to do that a while ago
I thought there was an unspoken bond bt the N & S that Jersey cede

[Dre Okorley]

thank god i left ky! it was the first to go to mcjoke.

[FScott]

Nothing like messages like this to bring America together. That is Obama's goal right?

How does it feel patriot?

[SophmoreSyd]

"Observe good faith and justice towards all nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all." Ghandi? No. George Washington. In this same speech, he also said, "To the efficacy and permanency of your Union, a government for the whole is indispensable." For the whole - these three words make the argument that nationalism is the strength of a country. Washington stated that every citizen should "indignantly frown [sic] upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts." However amusing, this includes such things as this letter. Now, I'm of the opinion that Mr. Washington said it best and I wholly agree with his farewell address, but to cement the argument I'd like to part with this:
Why should the north respect those who fought to keep slavery? Because just as many were opposed. During Monroe's Era of Good Feelings and later, there were equally as many slaves in the North as in the South, not to mention that some of the most eloquent and passionate abolitionists were from the South - Angelica and Emily Grimke, Frederick Douglass, and even Lincoln himself were Southerners.
It's hard enough to deal with outside threats - we don't need another civil war started just because people feel the need to keep punishing the south for the last one. Just as not all people who wear black are goths, not all Southerners are ignorant hicks, and there is no need to treat every one you meet as if they are one, for that is stereotyping of the worst kind.
Thanks for your time if you read this.

[chronomic]

I'm down for another civil war. I can't remember where I left my musket, though.

that would be awesome if we HAD to fight the same way the first civil war did. no modern warfare, just straight muskets and walking in straight lines.