Seattle - has there ever been a city in worse shape?

[Scott Weber]

I've been thinking a lot about this recently, and honestly I can't think of a time where it's ever been worse at one point in time. Let's recap.


Seattle Mariners - after winning 88 games a year before, in 2008 the team goes 61-101, the worst record in the American League.

Seattle Seahawks - after winning the NFC West 4 straight years, the team loses 5 WRs to injury to start the season, loses their star quarterback Matt Hasselbeck for 6 weeks, and currently sits at 2-7, tied for last place, and the worst the team has been years.

Seattle Sonics - Purchased by Clay Bennett and moved to Oklahoma City following the 2nd worst record in the NBA in 2007. The city no longer has an NBA franchise.

Washington Huskies - One of the more storied college football programs in America, it keeps getting worse as the team falls to 0-9. Coach Ty Willingham has been asked to resign.



Does it get any worse than this? Can anybody think of a time where an entire city has had so much disaster at any one point in time? Honestly, I think this has to be the worst it's ever been in sports history. I don't see how it can't be.

[CarlosLunes]

from simmons this week:

29. Seattle Seahawks
From Seattle reader Justin Sund: "I don't know who else to write to, SG. This has been ABSOLUTELY the worst year in Seattle sports history, and now the Tuba Guy has been killed. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/386267_robert04xx.html) This is worse than a Sucker Punch, worse than finding your girlfriend sleeping with your brother. … Our number one fan is dead, and it only further reminds me of how dead Seattle sports are in general. What do you do when that guy you saw before and after EVERY Mariners game disappears?"
(I don't know what to say anymore, Justin. If there's a silver lining, the rest of the country finally seems to be catching on after I spent two straight months writing about it and printing your e-mails in this column. A Sports Illustrated writer even regurgitated most of those thoughts and ideas for a column this week. So, I'd say national empathy is coming around. Hang in there.)

[Indoor Living]

Sadly, I can't argue with you. I sat here for a while trying to think of something worse, but I can't. Seattle has a lot of work to do to get back to mediocrity.

[LeftWideOpen]

2000 in Chicago was pretty horrifying (unless you were a White Sox fan), but they at least held on to all their teams.

[xbrokendownx]

yea you may have a point haha

i mean even cities that had numerous terrible teams at least had good teams in other sports to balance it out (Detroit comes to mind)

[Scott Weber]

The worst part is not that all our pro franchises are bad too, but that Husky football is the joke of the entire nation.

[CarlosLunes]

they arent even the worst college team in the state!

[Scott Weber]

they arent even the worst college team in the state!
maybe. at least WSU has won a game.

[1moreandimfree]

The Apple Cup is going to be such a joke to watch.

[CarlosLunes]

maybe. at least WSU has won a game.

yeah but at least you arent chcougar

[Scott Weber]

The Apple Cup is going to be such a joke to watch.
2 teams, one apple cup, the shittiest game ever.

[xbrokendownx]

they should bring back Mark Brunell and Ryan Leaf to play QB to get people to tune in

[CarlosLunes]

ryan leafe no longer has a job, whatever school he was coaching at fired him because he asked one of his players for pain pills!!!

[Chris Fallon]

What a depressing topic.

I can't even miss the Sonics because I know they'd be a shitty losing team like the rest -- going through this failure your whole life, always coming up a day late & a dollar short ... that shouldn't be how you feel when it comes to sports in your city.

Apple Cup is going to be a horrendous joke game, and I have little to no faith the M's will make any valuable improvements or that the Seahawks will recover from this wash of a season.

[xbrokendownx]

Frasier ended too.



lol wut

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

2 teams, one apple cup, the shittiest game ever.
I see what you did there.


.....if you did that on purpose.

[DaveFeelsRight]

2000 in Chicago was pretty horrifying (unless you were a White Sox fan), but they at least held on to all their teams.minus the white sox:

the bulls went 15-67 (the stars on that team: elton brand and ron artest haha)
the bears went 5-11
and the blackhawks....well its the blackhawks. atleast the wolves won a championship during that time

[LeftWideOpen]

The Cubs were terrible, too.

[Scott Weber]

Still not worse than Seattle now.

[we are cured]

I see what you did there.


.....if you did that on purpose.

hahaha i noticed that too.

and scott, about all of this...i'm sorry. i feel for you man. the rangers missed the playoffs 7 years in a row, and the jets are perennial underachievers, so i can somewhat sympathize with you even though that's nowhere near as bad as what your city is experiencing.

[rcrook]

maybe. at least WSU has won a game.

yeah but it was against portland st. i think UW is better than Wazzu.

[DJscratchNsniff]

the brewers and bucks were bad for a pretty long time.

[LastPlaceRocks]

Give the Twin Cities time. The Vikings are bound to move sooner or later, every sports team has gotten rid of (or will in the case of Gaborik) their franchise player and none of the professional sports team or major college teams look like they're doing anything worthwhile soon. But for now, Seattle is not a great place to be a sports fan.

[Metfan615]

wow I never thought about that... Seattle really does suck in sports right now

[Zeran]

seattle still has the wnba team, no?

[Scott Weber]

who the fuck cares about the wnba? i don't even think most people here know who's on the team.

[rcrook]

sue bird!

[Scott Weber]

what the fuck, the storm have sheryl swoopes???

[Chris M.]

I don't even think I could name 5 players in the wnba

[xbrokendownx]

watch your wife scott, swoopes might try and steal her

[rcrook]

lol all i know about the wnba is that lisa leslie and candice parker can dunk and that the houston team was real good back in the day. oh and also that ozzie guillen doesn't hate gay people because he has attended a wnba game before.

[iihungrieii]

LOL HE BROUGHT UP THE WNBA!!!!!!

x

[rcrook]

watch your wife scott, swoopes might try and steal her

or she may swoop in and steal her X-)

[Scott Weber]

watch your wife scott, swoopes might try and steal her
she could SWOOP in LOLZzlzlzlzlz

[Scott Weber]

hahahahahaha

[xbrokendownx]

o i c wut u guys did thur

[iihungrieii]

or she may swoop in and steal her X-)

she could SWOOP in LOLZzlzlzlzlz

haahahhahaah

[rcrook]

like where your head is at weebs

[xbrokendownx]

pause

[imirish06]

seattles also on of the 3 current teams that has never played in a WS

[Zeran]

who the fuck cares about the wnba? i don't even think most people here know who's on the team.

relax, bro. it was a joke. obviously no one cares that much about the wnba.

[DaveFeelsRight]

seattles also on of the 3 current teams that has never played in a WSwhos the other two? rangers and expos/nationals?

[imirish06]

whos the other two? rangers and expos/nationals?

yup. this was a trivia question at the bar the other night. I got the mariners, nationals right off the bat but I couldn't figure out the rangers

[MyWorldEntire]

I hope Washington tries to bring in Lane Kiffin after the season is over. He would seem like a natural fit there

[domotime2]

what about miami circa 2007....

Florida Marlins 71-91, last in the NL east
Miami Heat 15-67, worst team in the NBA
Miami Dolphins 1-15, last in the NFL
Miami Hurricanes football, 5-7 in the ACC NO BOWL for the first time in 10 years.
Miami hurricane basketball (06-07' season), 4-12, last in the ACC

[domotime2]

and sure for kicks...

Florida Panthers in 06-07 and 07-08 misses playoffs.

[Scott Weber]

what about miami circa 2007....

Florida Marlins 71-91, last in the NL east
Miami Heat 15-67, worst team in the NBA
Miami Dolphins 1-15, last in the NFL
Miami Hurricanes football, 5-7 in the ACC NO BOWL for the first time in 10 years.
Miami hurricane basketball (06-07' season), 4-12, last in the ACC
That's pretty bad, but at least Miami football won some games and didn't lose an entire franchise.

[screamoutmyname]

I've been thinking a lot about this recently, and honestly I can't think of a time where it's ever been worse at one point in time. Let's recap.


Seattle Mariners - after winning 88 games a year before, in 2008 the team goes 61-101, the worst record in the American League.

Seattle Seahawks - after winning the NFC West 4 straight years, the team loses 5 WRs to injury to start the season, loses their star quarterback Matt Hasselbeck for 6 weeks, and currently sits at 2-7, tied for last place, and the worst the team has been years.

Seattle Sonics - Purchased by Clay Bennett and moved to Oklahoma City following the 2nd worst record in the NBA in 2007. The city no longer has an NBA franchise.

Washington Huskies - One of the more storied college football programs in America, it keeps getting worse as the team falls to 0-9. Coach Ty Willingham has been asked to resign.



Does it get any worse than this? Can anybody think of a time where an entire city has had so much disaster at any one point in time? Honestly, I think this has to be the worst it's ever been in sports history. I don't see how it can't be.

although things have been looking up for the city of brotherly love lately, i nominate philadelphia

haha =(

[xbrokendownx]

X-)

[Scott Weber]

although things have been looking up for the city of brotherly love lately, i nominate philadelphia

haha =(
i will fucking kill you.

fuck your entire city, you didn't have shit before and now you DEFINITELY don't have shit.

[LastPlaceRocks]

That's pretty bad, but at least Miami football won some games and didn't lose an entire franchise.
Minneapolis-St. Paul circa 1995

North Stars move to Dallas with no sight of getting another NHL team
Vikings miss the playoffs
Twins are at the bottom of their rebuilding project, fail to win sixty games
Timberwolves almost move to New Orleans
Gopher football wins three games and hadn't been to a bowl game in almost ten years

[Chris M.]

although things have been looking up for the city of brotherly love lately, i nominate philadelphia

haha =(

you are an idiot

[Scott Weber]

Minneapolis-St. Paul circa 1995

North Stars move to Dallas with no sight of getting another NHL team
Vikings miss the playoffs
Twins are at the bottom of their rebuilding project, fail to win sixty games
Timberwolves almost move to New Orleans
Gopher football wins three games and hadn't been to a bowl game in almost ten years
at least the vikings went 8-8 and the gophers won a game!

[LastPlaceRocks]

Sadly, that and 1996 (four games) were the highlights of that era. I'm sure they won less over that three-four year period than UW has.

[Drew Beringer]

lolololololololol I can't believe someone seriously mentioned Philadelphia.

[Scott Weber]

Sadly, that and 1996 (four games) were the highlights of that era. I'm sure they won less over that three-four year period than UW has.
you sure?

2004: 1-10
2005: 2-9
2006: 5-7
2007: 4-9
2008: 0-9

[rcrook]

12-44 over 5 years, that's good right?

[AshesAshes]

Hahahaha, I'm so sick of Philly fans.

Seattle is in pretty bad shape when Utah is having better success than you that's sad.

[rcrook]

6-34 against the pac-10 the last 5 years...:puke:

[LastPlaceRocks]

you sure?

2004: 1-10
2005: 2-9
2006: 5-7
2007: 4-9
2008: 0-9
The Twin Cities really is the ying to Seattle's yang

2-9
2-9
4-7
3-8
3-8

So only two more wins, but at least UW has been to the Rose Bowl some point this decade. It's been forty-one years since the U has won a Big Ten title.

[Scott Weber]

The Twin Cities really is the ying to Seattle's yang

2-9
2-9
4-7
3-8
3-8

So only two more wins, but at least UW has been to the Rose Bowl some point this decade. It's been forty-one years since the U has won a Big Ten title.
right, that's what makes it so bad. minnesota is hardly a national powerhouse - washington was a powerhouse program for nearly a century.

[LastPlaceRocks]

Sadly they were up until the 60s. No one knows it due to the forty years of futility that the program has endured.

[rcrook]

Husky football of the early 90s was filthy

[Scott Weber]

http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/march02/images/backpages_ftball02.jpg

[rcrook]

his role in little giants > his nfl career

[LastPlaceRocks]

Who is that?

[kbauer]

Detroit has been lucky. Championships every two years since '98. Even going back to the 70's weve never had a run where all 4 teams were garbage in one season.

I think Seattle losing the Sonics at this point trumps everything though.

[Scott Weber]

Who is that?
steve emtman, maybe the best college defensive lineman of the past 20 years.

[LastPlaceRocks]

Thanks.

[rcrook]

Weebs I still wear a 1991 Washington National Championship shirt every now and then. My aunt is from Washington and she bought it for me when I was 5 but it was an Adult Large. I pulled it out of my closet a few months ago and realized it finally fit me.

[Scott Weber]

dude was a monster. no bias, the best defensive player i've ever seen play the game. finished fourth in the heisman voting and he was the #1 overall pick...by the colts. the turf destroyed his knees and he blew out his knee in three straight years. never recovered.

[Scott Weber]

that is so awesome. i just got this shirt for my best friend:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&item=310091669120

[screamoutmyname]

i will fucking kill you.

fuck your entire city, you didn't have shit before and now you DEFINITELY don't have shit.

whoa, dude... calm down lol

i was just saying that philly has a rough go of things all the time

you are an idiot

and might i ask why?

because a philadelphia team finally won a championship?

Hahahaha, I'm so sick of Philly fans.

Seattle is in pretty bad shape when Utah is having better success than you that's sad.

boooooooooooooo.

- everyone in philadelphia

[xbrokendownx]

you just won the world series

the flyers made the eastern conference finals last year

the eagles made it to 4 straight NFC championship games in a row

the sixers are one of the better young teams in the league

villanova basketball has been to the sweet 16 three of the last four years


go away

[startBBtoday]

whoa, dude... calm down lol

i was just saying that philly has a rough go of things all the time



and might i ask why?

because a philadelphia team finally won a championship?

your stupidity is so far beyond me.

seattle's shittiness totally sucks. i start watching every UW game, but can never get through them. if they had beat BYU, i really think their record would be a lot better right now. i can't watch ronnie fouch.

[screamoutmyname]

you just won the world series

the flyers made the eastern conference finals last year

the eagles made it to 4 straight NFC championship games in a row

the sixers are one of the better young teams in the league

villanova basketball has been to the sweet 16 three of the last four years


go away

...but before all of that, there was a dry spell in philadelphia clear across the board

your stupidity is so far beyond me.

seattle's shittiness totally sucks. i start watching every UW game, but can never get through them. if they had beat BYU, i really think their record would be a lot better right now. i can't watch ronnie fouch.

lol, fuck it... it's a losing battle.

you win the pointless internet argument.

[xbrokendownx]

if its pointless why are you arguing?

and just because Philly didnt win anything doesnt mean they didnt have good teams. the Flyers were perennially a good team, the eagles have been good for awhile, the sixers were strong for awhile with iverson

[startBBtoday]

...but before all of that, there was a dry spell in philadelphia clear across the board



lol, fuck it... it's a losing battle.

you win the pointless internet argument.

even before the phillies won, the 76ers won a championship in 1983, seattle hasn't seen one since 1979. their current pro teams have zero championships.

[xbrokendownx]

villanova won in 1985 so thats even more recent

[startBBtoday]

villanova won in 1985 so thats even more recent

UW won a nat'l championship in 91 too, but i was just counting pro sports.

[bigmike]

Seattle sports is a wreck. But at least they aren't actually like Detroit.

[screamoutmyname]

even before the phillies won, the 76ers won a championship in 1983, seattle hasn't seen one since 1979. their current pro teams have zero championships.

fair enough.

if its pointless why are you arguing?

and just because Philly didnt win anything doesnt mean they didnt have good teams. the Flyers were perennially a good team, the eagles have been good for awhile, the sixers were strong for awhile with iverson

i just didn't see why everyone got so goddamn hostile because i mentioned philadelphia...

they have had some pretty good teams, but they also have had a pretty substantial dry spell.

my apologies

[StandMyBrothers]

cause some of your Philly colleagues have gave your city a very bad name.

[screamoutmyname]

cause some of your Philly colleagues have gave your city a very bad name.

have given*

haha and that is a very good point... there's a lot of assholes from philly, i must say.

[bigmike]

fair enough.



i just didn't see why everyone got so goddamn hostile because i mentioned philadelphia...

they have had some pretty good teams, but they also have had a pretty substantial dry spell.

my apologies
Going to a World Series every 10 years is a substantial dry spell? 80, 83, 93, 08.

[Scott Weber]

philly needs to shut the fuck up. they've had a LOAD of success, just because it hasn't ended always in a championship doesn't mean you're so fucking desolate.

[screamoutmyname]

Going to a World Series every 10 years is a substantial dry spell? 80, 83, 93, 08.

i didn't realize we were looking at only baseball.

philly needs to shut the fuck up. they've had a LOAD of success, just because it hasn't ended always in a championship doesn't mean you're so fucking desolate.

sir, yes sir.

[Scott Weber]

seriously, you guys have nothing to complain about compared to other cities. it's been built up and made into something far worse than it ever was or is.

[bigmike]

i didn't realize we were looking at only baseball.



sir, yes sir.
We're not, but if one team is successful over said "dry spell" for the city in the 4 major sports, doesn't that automatically take them out of the running, no? Didn't think that logic train was a hard one to follow.

[screamoutmyname]

We're not, but if one team is successful over said "dry spell" for the city in the 4 major sports, doesn't that automatically take them out of the running, no? Didn't think that logic train was a hard one to follow.

it's not... i guess 1/4 isn't terrible, but i wouldn't say it's that good either.

i guess we're judging on different criteria.

seriously, you guys have nothing to complain about compared to other cities. it's been built up and made into something far worse than it ever was or is.

you may be right... but philly is pretty awesome at let-down when they do make it to the playoffs, also.

[Scott Weber]

it's not... i guess 1/4 isn't terrible, but i wouldn't say it's that good either.

i guess we're judging on different criteria.



you may be right... but philly is pretty awesome at let-down when they do make it to the playoffs, also.
yeah, you're judging on some spoiled bullshit and thinking you're soooo tortured when your teams are in the fucking playoffs or contending for them year after year after year.

[screamoutmyname]

yeah, you're judging on some spoiled bullshit and thinking you're soooo tortured when your teams are in the fucking playoffs or contending for them year after year after year.

:worship:

sorry for having a conflicting point-of-view

[livethesounds]

haha, this isn't about a point of view. it's about Seattle currently being at the bottom of everything they're in and having a team ripped out from under them over the course of a season.

Unless your case involves every team you're talking about being at the bottom, plus adding insult to injury, then you lose. pretty simple. that was the point of the thread. thats why you got yelled at when you said philly, because it's not even close...

[Scott Weber]

:worship:

sorry for having a conflicting point-of-view
it's not about point of view.

it's about you being stupid.

[screamoutmyname]

haha, this isn't about a point of view. it's about Seattle currently being at the bottom of everything they're in and having a team ripped out from under them over the course of a season.

Unless your case involves every team you're talking about being at the bottom, plus adding insult to injury, then you lose. pretty simple. that was the point of the thread. thats why you got yelled at when you said philly, because it's not even close...

i never claimed that philly was WORSE than seattle.

i said that there was a point in time that philly had a bunch of teams that were pretty shitty... and also that philly is pretty good at letting people down.

it's not about point of view.

it's about you being stupid.

haha yes... and also about you being a holier-than-thou asshole at the moment.

[bigmike]

it's not... i guess 1/4 isn't terrible, but i wouldn't say it's that good either.

i guess we're judging on different criteria.



you may be right... but philly is pretty awesome at let-down when they do make it to the playoffs, also.
Every team that doesn't win the title in their sport that makes the playoffs are "let-downs," no? If that's the case, then on the basis of the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons not winning titles in the 90's, Detroit is on par with the Phillies.

[Scott Weber]

i never claimed that philly was WORSE than seattle.

i said that there was a point in time that philly had a bunch of teams that were pretty shitty... and also that philly is pretty good at letting people down.



haha yes... and also about you being a holier-than-thou asshole at the moment.
rather be let down in the playoffs or making a run for it than finishing in last place or not being able to win a game.

and you're god damn right i'm being an asshole right now. all you philly fuckers have been so obnoxious on this board with this woe is me shit. get some perspective.

[QuikTrig]

ha never realized how much seattle sucked.

at least you got college basketball i suppose? :shrug:

[livethesounds]

i never claimed that philly was WORSE than seattle.

i said that there was a point in time that philly had a bunch of teams that were pretty shitty... and also that philly is pretty good at letting people down.



haha yes... and also about you being a holier-than-thou asshole at the moment.

But you came in a thread where we were trying to gage if anyone has had a more horrendous year, and you come in talking about philly being below astronomically high standards. You've been around AP for a while, you knew it was gonna happen.

[screamoutmyname]

Every team that doesn't win the title in their sport that makes the playoffs are "let-downs," no? If that's the case, then on the basis of the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons not winning titles in the 90's, Detroit is on par with the Phillies.

fair enough.

rather be let down in the playoffs or making a run for it than finishing in last place or not being able to win a game.

and you're god damn right i'm being an asshole right now. all you philly fuckers have been so obnoxious on this board with this woe is me shit. get some perspective.

i wouldn't classify myself as a "woe is me, philly fucker," but if that's your point-of-view (lol), that's fine with me. i wasn't looking for pity or sympathy for philly teams.

[Scott Weber]

ha never realized how much seattle sucked.

at least you got college basketball i suppose? :shrug:
3rd to last in the pac-10 last year :-/

[livethesounds]

3rd to last in the pac-10 last year :-/

better than last!!:thumbup:

[screamoutmyname]

But you came in a thread where we were trying to gage if anyone has had a more horrendous year, and you come in talking about philly being below astronomically high standards. You've been around AP for a while, you knew it was gonna happen.

right, but i also prefaced it by saying "i know philadelphia has been doing fairly well lately, BUT..."

i suppose that disclaimer was not enough.

[Scott Weber]

right, but i also prefaced it by saying "i know philadelphia has been doing fairly well lately, BUT..."

i suppose that disclaimer was not enough.
leave and never come back. i hate your city and i hate you.

[livethesounds]

hahaha

[screamoutmyname]

leave and never come back. i hate your city and i hate you.

hahaha you're literally asking me to remove myself from AP.net for voicing my opinion?

isn't that the point of a forum?

[screamoutmyname]

as much as we disagree on this topic, you listen to some sweet music, dude.

saves the day and pedro the lion as your top two? at least we have some common ground.

[Scott Weber]

hahaha you're literally asking me to remove myself from AP.net for voicing my opinion?

isn't that the point of a forum?
i'm asking you to leave because i find you and your entire fan base insanely obnoxious, this not being an exception.

[screamoutmyname]

i'm asking you to leave because i find you and your entire fan base insanely obnoxious, this not being an exception.

i'm merely dishing out what was given to me... if you are an asshole to me, i will be an asshole right back.

however, if you had stated your argument in a reasonable way (much like bigmike did) i have no problem being rational.

[Scott Weber]

i'm merely dishing out what was given to me... if you are an asshole to me, i will be an asshole right back.

however, if you had stated your argument in a reasonable way (much like bigmike did) i have no problem being rational.
you're not being an asshole. just dumb.

the city of philadelphia belongs nowhere in this discussion. you're not allowed to play the loser card anymore.

[preppyak]

and you're god damn right i'm being an asshole right now. all you philly fuckers have been so obnoxious on this board with this woe is me shit. get some perspective.
Let's play a fun game to verify Scott's point:

Eagles - since '01, 5 playoff appearances, 4 straight conference championships, 1 SB appearance.
Flyers - since '01, 5 playoff appearances (actually, hadn't missed the playoffs since 1994), 2 conference finals
Phillies - since '01, 1 losing season (80-81), 2 playoff appearances, 3 MVP's, 1 MOY, 1 World Series
Sixers - since '01, 5 playoff appearances, 01 NBA Finals

That's a total of 17 playoff appearances out of a possible 27...63% of your seasons for the last 7 years have ended with MORE GAMES!!!!

When the Flyers were bad in the early 90's, the Phillies were going to the World Series. Since then, the Flyers have missed the playoffs once, the Eagles found a franchise QB and gave you several great seasons, the Phillies made winning the MVP look easy, and the Sixers are rebuilding...so that when one of the up teams goes down, they replace them.

That Philly hadn't won a championship isn't "torture"...its inconvenient...but imagine being a Lions fan. Instead of seeing 4 conference finals, a super bowl, and 5 playoff appearances, they saw like 21-80 and no playoffs.

Perspective was the word used, and if you cant see that Philly didn't have it that bad, when, then it only solidifies why I hate Philly sports

[screamoutmyname]

you're not being an asshole. just dumb.

the city of philadelphia belongs nowhere in this discussion. you're not allowed to play the loser card anymore.

well then, i guess you just about covered it all with your infinite knowledge... you win!

Let's play a fun game to verify Scott's point:

Eagles - since '01, 5 playoff appearances, 4 straight conference championships, 1 SB appearance.
Flyers - since '01, 5 playoff appearances (actually, hadn't missed the playoffs since 1994), 2 conference finals
Phillies - since '01, 1 losing season (80-81), 2 playoff appearances, 3 MVP's, 1 MOY, 1 World Series
Sixers - since '01, 5 playoff appearances, 01 NBA Finals

That's a total of 17 playoff appearances out of a possible 27...63% of your seasons for the last 7 years have ended with MORE GAMES!!!!

When the Flyers were bad in the early 90's, the Phillies were going to the World Series. Since then, the Flyers have missed the playoffs once, the Eagles found a franchise QB and gave you several great seasons, the Phillies made winning the MVP look easy, and the Sixers are rebuilding...so that when one of the up teams goes down, they replace them.

That Philly hadn't won a championship isn't "torture"...its inconvenient...but imagine being a Lions fan. Instead of seeing 4 conference finals, a super bowl, and 5 playoff appearances, they saw like 21-80 and no playoffs.

Perspective was the word used, and if you cant see that Philly didn't have it that bad, when, then it only solidifies why I hate Philly sports

scratch my previous statement... you win!

[WheresTheChorus]

terrible year. i'm by far the most disappointed in the seahawks.
they are too talented to be this bad.
yes injuries have kicked our ass,
but we just make too many mistakes, give up too many big plays, and are too conservative sometimes.
we'll get a top 10 pick next year, which will help in the first few rounds.
1st round we should get michael crabtree (if available, too good to pass up. branch has been hurt too much right now, if we are able to get crabtree, we could trade branch and have burleson and crabtree starting with engram in the slot)
but yeah we do have bigger problems that we should draft for.
o line is always important
and i love our d-ends, but we need more inside pressure.
trufant is my guy but jennings and wilson have given up huge plays.
if we dont take crabtree or he's off the board, we should take malcolm jenkins form ohio state..shutdown corner.
also, our safety play has been pretty weak. deon grant can be good at times but russell is lacking. we could take taylor mays from usc if not jenkins/crabtree.
i don't know. there are a lot of areas we can improve on
we should also look at a qb in one of the rounds for sure.
i love seneca but we need a young guy to start mentoring to take over after matt
the only truly solid position we have is linebacker. we need to make sure we resign leroy hill though.
anyway, that is my seahawks rant.
i was so pumped for this season :(

[preppyak]

well then, i guess you just about covered it all with your infinite knowledge... you win!
The points you made, that there was a "dry spell", that not winning championships is failure...they've all been shot down. Get over it, your argument, disclaimer noted, is horribly wrong

I have no desire to backlog exacts since 1983, but I can guarantee you that since 1993, you have had a playoff team EVERY season...which is the beauty that Philly never realizes in having 4 teams

[livethesounds]

how is this still being argued? it's a non-argument.

[Scott Weber]

Let's play a fun game to verify Scott's point:

Eagles - since '01, 5 playoff appearances, 4 straight conference championships, 1 SB appearance.
Flyers - since '01, 5 playoff appearances (actually, hadn't missed the playoffs since 1994), 2 conference finals
Phillies - since '01, 1 losing season (80-81), 2 playoff appearances, 3 MVP's, 1 MOY, 1 World Series
Sixers - since '01, 5 playoff appearances, 01 NBA Finals

That's a total of 17 playoff appearances out of a possible 27...63% of your seasons for the last 7 years have ended with MORE GAMES!!!!

When the Flyers were bad in the early 90's, the Phillies were going to the World Series. Since then, the Flyers have missed the playoffs once, the Eagles found a franchise QB and gave you several great seasons, the Phillies made winning the MVP look easy, and the Sixers are rebuilding...so that when one of the up teams goes down, they replace them.

That Philly hadn't won a championship isn't "torture"...its inconvenient...but imagine being a Lions fan. Instead of seeing 4 conference finals, a super bowl, and 5 playoff appearances, they saw like 21-80 and no playoffs.

Perspective was the word used, and if you cant see that Philly didn't have it that bad, when, then it only solidifies why I hate Philly sports
thanks for doing what i couldn't because of the beers i'm deep on.

[screamoutmyname]

The points you made, that there was a "dry spell", that not winning championships is failure...they've all been shot down. Get over it, your argument, disclaimer noted, is horribly wrong

I have no desire to backlog exacts since 1983, but I can guarantee you that since 1993, you have had a playoff team EVERY season...which is the beauty that Philly never realizes in having 4 teams

jesus christ, alright... i haven't been arguing that fact for almost a page now... it's been me and weber arguing back and forth about who's an "asshole" and who's "dumb."

fuckin' a... i'm sorry for even posting in this thread in the first place.

[Scott Weber]

jesus christ, alright... i haven't been arguing that fact for almost a page now... it's been me and weber arguing back and forth about who's an "asshole" and who's "dumb."

fuckin' a... i'm sorry for even posting in this thread in the first place.
it's not arguing.

you're dumb. i'm an asshole.

that's all there is to it.

[screamoutmyname]

it's not arguing.

you're dumb. i'm an asshole.

that's all there is to it.

when in rome.

[Scott Weber]

when in rome.
when in hell we'll do shots at the bar.

[screamoutmyname]

when in hell we'll do shots at the bar.

this is a rock and roll takeover.

[Scott Weber]

last call. seriously. last beer of the night.

[screamoutmyname]

alright, well it's been a pleasure, but i have class super-early in the AM... go eagles.

last call. seriously. last beer of the night.

kill it!

[Bigalan2004]

last call. seriously. last beer of the night.

at 10:22?!?

when did you start?

[Scott Weber]

at 10:22?!?

when did you start?
7. old fucks like us get it going early. gotta work in the morning.

[Bigalan2004]

7. old fucks like us get it going early. gotta work in the morning.

damn that sucks. at least you still got drunk/buzzed so more power to ya.

[Drew Beringer]

when in hell we'll do shots at the bar.
win

[LastPlaceRocks]

right, that's what makes it so bad. minnesota is hardly a national powerhouse - washington was a powerhouse program for nearly a century.
For some reason I was still thinking about this topic on my flight home, but wouldn't it be worse to have forty years of futility after being so successful?

EDIT: Don't mean to rain on your pity parade about losing the Sonics and the Mariners being a failure after spending money in free agency (go ahead and have it); it's just something that came up. I should just stop.

[rcrook]

i think 5 or 6 of being absolutely abismal when youre a powerhouse is worse than 40 of futility when you've never been a succesful football program in the modern era

[LastPlaceRocks]

Can you explain?

[LeftWideOpen]

you know what city has had it rough ... boston.

;-)

[xbrokendownx]

new york never wins anything!

[iihungrieii]

we don't have a football team........

[rcrook]

Can you explain?

I just feel that if you're a national powerhouse and then you drop off and become one of the worst programs in the country for 5 years that is a much bigger fall from grace and rougher road than the team who hasn't been very good for 40 years.

[rcrook]

we don't have a football team........

We do have a football team. USC. They're better than all 3 NFL teams in California.

[LeftWideOpen]

since when did rcrook become jersey trash?

[rcrook]

lol seriously at least put a fratty guy up there not some spray on tan jersey douche

[xbrokendownx]

i think its meant to signify a frat boy

[rcrook]

this is 100 times more fratty than a jersey slob
http://lanedavis.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/lolasshat.jpg

[xbrokendownx]

oh man i want to punch that dude in the face

[LeftWideOpen]

yeah, i'd go with a popped collar over the aspiring guido.

[kshtoinks12]

Did you say A popped collar? How about four popped collars!

[iihungrieii]

people really wear 4 polos at the same time?

[chcougar1]

yeah but it was against portland st. i think UW is better than Wazzu.

They are...They are going to route us in the apple cup.

[CubbyNick42]

That guy's got an undershirt, too. I hope it's like 12 degrees out.

[mht]

I don't know what was dumber, a Philadelphia sports justification being brought up/into this or the Every Time I Die singalong after it.

[Scott Weber]

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v549/99/81/10732562/n10732562_40743088_311.jpg

[1moreandimfree]

hahahahahahahahahaha

[bigmike]

Can't wait for the Apple Cup!

[Chris Fallon]

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v549/99/81/10732562/n10732562_40743088_311.jpg
I watched that this morning and love how the anchors were searching for some optimism here. God, that is going to be one hell of an eyesore to watch.

[rcrook]

it blows my mind that both teams are so bad on both sides of the ball.

[xbrokendownx]

one of my buddies lives in Washington and hes going to the game...i laughed at him for a good minute when he told me

[blindrider529]

haha This subject has become very commonplace in small talk around here.




Washington that is...

[Scott Weber]

i thought it couldn't get any worse.



i was wrong.

[blindrider529]

haha at least A Washington team won today.

[Scott Weber]

pullman isn't washington. its assfuck nowhereville.

[preppyak]

haha at least A Washington team won today.
a win by necessity isn't really a win...and Pullman is NOT anywhere near Seattle

[LastPlaceRocks]

Alright, so assfuck nowhere is not in Washington. Good to know.

[blindrider529]

pullman isn't washington. its assfuck nowhereville.
haha I don't think anyone would deny that second sentence.

a win by necessity isn't really a win...and Pullman is NOT anywhere near Seattle
I didn't say Pullman was anywhere near Seattle!

[1moreandimfree]

haha I don't think anyone would deny that second sentence.


I didn't say Pullman was anywhere near Seattle!

He's referring to the title of the thread. It says Seattle.

[preppyak]

haha at least A Washington team won today.
He's referring to the title of the thread. It says Seattle.
DING DING! Who cares if a team from 5 hours away wins. The Portland Trailblazers are closer to Seattle than Wash State is...heck, by google maps, Oregon is closer too.

And is it of any solace to a Seattle fan, who roots for the Huskies, to lose that game that way to Wash State...as Scott is making clear, it only makes it worse

[blindrider529]

He's referring to the title of the thread. It says Seattle.

DING DING! Who cares if a team from 5 hours away wins. The Portland Trailblazers are closer to Seattle than Wash State is...heck, by google maps, Oregon is closer too.

and I was commenting on a topic involving a Seattle team within the thread. In essence, I was sarcastically saying "maybe Seattle fans from Washington should say fuck Seattle, at least a homestate team won."

Personally, I don't give a shit about the title of the thread or Seattle/Washington teams.

[preppyak]

and I was commenting on a topic involving a Seattle team within the thread. In essence, I was sarcastically saying "maybe Seattle fans from Washington should say fuck Seattle, at least a homestate team won."
I knew this would come up...so here is what I thought was obvious

If you told a Philly fan, prior to their World Series win, "Hey, don't be so sad about your hometown teams losing, at least the Steelers won a Super Bowl...and darn, isn't that Penguins team getting better", you'd understandably get the thrashing of your life...fan bases aren't built by state borders. Ever think a Duke fan would be happy UNC won because "they're only 20 minutes away"

You're never going to get a fan base to root for their rival of 100 years...never...that should be obvious whether you care about Washington teams or not, that's a universal sports rule

[blindrider529]

I knew this would come up...so here is what I thought was obvious

If you told a Philly fan, prior to their World Series win, "Hey, don't be so sad about your hometown teams losing, at least the Steelers won a Super Bowl...and darn, isn't that Penguins team getting better", you'd understandably get the thrashing of your life...fan bases aren't built by state borders. Ever think a Duke fan would be happy UNC won because "they're only 20 minutes away"

You're never going to get a fan base to root for their rival of 100 years...never...that should be obvious whether you care about Washington teams or not, that's a universal sports rule
I agree. The freakin internet won't let me make a joke about our awful teams without it being responded to like I was serious! haha oi

[Tanya Marie]

I miss seattle :(

[preppyak]

I agree. The freakin internet won't let me make a joke about our awful teams without it being responded to like I was serious! haha oi
Yeah, there needs to be a "sarcasm" font or something, just so nobody has to guess

[xbrokendownx]

would

[CubbyNick42]

I should hope so.

[blindrider529]

Yeah, there needs to be a "sarcasm" font or something, just so nobody has to guess
That is a brilliant idea! Somebody needs to get on this right now.

[preppyak]

would
looks like an olson twin...

[blindrider529]

looks like an olson twin...
wow. Dead on

[Scott Weber]

what a horrible fucking day.

[CstSnow]

What a depressing topic.

I can't even miss the Sonics because I know they'd be a shitty losing team like the rest -- going through this failure your whole life, always coming up a day late & a dollar short ... that shouldn't be how you feel when it comes to sports in your city.

Apple Cup is going to be a horrendous joke game, and I have little to no faith the M's will make any valuable improvements or that the Seahawks will recover from this wash of a season.


The M's might be the best shot Seattle has for achieving at the very least mediocrity. GM Z is doing some really awesome things and I'm way more optimistic for the team than I have been in a long time.

[rcrook]

The M's might be the best shot Seattle has for achieving at the very least mediocrity. GM Z is doing some really awesome things and I'm way more optimistic for the team than I have been in a long time.

how bout them 9ers? definitely reaching those 8-10 wins like you so boldfully predicted.

[CstSnow]

how bout them 9ers? definitely reaching those 8-10 wins like you so boldfully predicted.

Haha I knew it was only a matter of time before somebody brought that up.

They are bad, but not as bad as their record makes it look, most of their losses could have very easily been wins. Both AZ games, Phi game, Pats game. In fact they were leading 2 of those in the fourth quarter before blowing it. But they definitely havent progressed as much as I thought they would, I guess I was wrong :shrug:

[xbrokendownx]

no im pretty sure they are precisely as bad as their record makes them look

[Scott Weber]

no im pretty sure they are precisely as bad as their record makes them look
yeah. they're fucking awful. the NFC West is worse than it's been maybe ever this year.

[CstSnow]

yeah. they're fucking awful. the NFC West is worse than it's been maybe ever this year.

That I definitely agree with.

[blimpcityhero11]

Mid-90's Cleveland was pretty depressing... While the Indians were very good and the Cavs saw some success during this time, the loss of the Browns was terrible for the city. Cleveland is by far a football town, so I feel the pain of losing a beloved team.

Seattle now though... There are no words for how bad the professional sports teams have been in that city this year.

[xbrokendownx]

uhhh the indians went 100-44 in 1995 and in 97 led the world series in the bottom of the ninth....

[bigmike]

Mid-90's Cleveland was pretty depressing... While the Indians were very good and the Cavs saw some success during this time, the loss of the Browns was terrible for the city. Cleveland is by far a football town, so I feel the pain of losing a beloved team.

Seattle now though... There are no words for how bad the professional sports teams have been in that city this year.
Ummmmm http://absolutepunk.net/customavatars/avatar44640_8.gif

[xbrokendownx]

hahaha excellent work

[blimpcityhero11]

uhhh the indians went 100-44 in 1995 and in 97 led the world series in the bottom of the ninth....

I wasn't exactly comparing that situation to Seattle's... I was just explaining that the loss of the Browns was hard on the city.

[Scott Weber]

Ummmmm http://absolutepunk.net/customavatars/avatar44640_8.gif
http://absolutepunk.net/customavatars/avatar54105_17.gif (http://absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=54105)

[xbrokendownx]

I wasn't exactly comparing that situation to Seattle's... I was just explaining that the loss of the Browns was hard on the city.



to borrow from matt:

http://i28.tinypic.com/icv9ko.jpg

[LastPlaceRocks]

Ummmmm http://absolutepunk.net/customavatars/avatar44640_8.gif
That made me laugh. Thanks BigMike.

[imirish06]

I recently found my old seattle new era hats from when I was on my Griffey Jr. man crush. Had the normal all navy one, the navy one with teal brim, and this one

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/prod_lrg_images/283/201010283.jpg



I still can't believe they never played in a World Series during that time. That team was beyond fun

[hxchairstylist]

they arent even the worst college team in the state!

They are now...

[mattmatumbo]

well hopefully the sounders wont suck so bad

[LukeTheSpook]

lol at seatle sucking so much

[Broken Parachute]

You guys have the Seattle Sounders to look forward too at least. They're not going to be that bad at all, especially for an expansion team. They're definitely going to be my second team to follow next season.

Their uniforms are really nice...

http://goalseattle.com/NewsTN/08-09jersey.jpg

[mattmatumbo]

You guys have the Seattle Sounders to look forward too at least. They're not going to be that bad at all, especially for an expansion team. They're definitely going to be my second team to follow next season.

Their uniforms are really nice...

http://goalseattle.com/NewsTN/08-09jersey.jpg

i like the blue one but the green is too much. they may be my second favorite team with beltran on board

[blindrider529]

Any bets on the final score today?

[xbrokendownx]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=seattle2008&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

[Scott Weber]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=seattle2008&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1
great article. that guy is a legend around here.

[rcrook]

who the fuck would murder the tuba guy? that guy was great i remember him from my trips to seattle.

[acfrue]

You guys have the Seattle Sounders to look forward too at least. They're not going to be that bad at all, especially for an expansion team. They're definitely going to be my second team to follow next season.

Their uniforms are really nice...

http://goalseattle.com/NewsTN/08-09jersey.jpg

i really like these uniforms...plus they have the xbox live logo, you cant go wrong with that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=seattle2008&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

wow, that is an amazing article. good find.

[LastPlaceRocks]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/seattles_disastrous_sports

[Drew Beringer]

That was a great read about Big Lo.

[gnarly sky]

That's funny. Seattle is probably one of the more economically stable cities but with crap sports.

While Detroit is one of the most economically unstable, but has some of the best teams.

[rcrook]

yeah the lions were fantastic this year

[bigmike]

Tigers definitely pressed the Rays for that AL Crown this year. That was such a great ALCS.

[preppyak]

To end December without a single head coach or manager who was employed in January returning for the next year? It's enough to make Seattle fans feel as if Cleveland fans have had it good.Jesus, now that is ridiclous...on top of having a franchise move.

Great article though...I had forgotten to read it when it came out a few weeks back...I love the final sentence

[preppyak]

Tigers definitely pressed the Rays for that AL Crown this year. That was such a great ALCS.
and thank god the Pistons got rid of Chauncey Billups...he was just a system guy, he'll never be a great leader for another team

[LastPlaceRocks]

Tigers definitely pressed the Rays for that AL Crown this year. That was such a great ALCS.
That was one for the ages - I can't believe Dontrelle Willis' performance.

It's too bad the Red Wings couldn't play to the level of the other three Detroit sports teams. What a bunch of slackers.

[thesafeword]

The Mariners are looking as if they won't ever get better, but I'm not extremely worried with the Seahawks. For a good amount of the year we were without our whole starting wide receiver We'll get a good draft pick this draft and hopefully not be as injury stucken next year. For the Seahawks there is hope, but there's still a shit baseball team and no NHL or NBA team. Continuing with Washington sports in general, Washington's football team is a disgrace to college football and my Washington State Cougars aren't much better. Wash. St. and Gonzaga keep choking in men's basketball and the Huskies aren't much better. But Gonzaga can be and probably will be really good, even this year. Wazzu is just young, nine freshmen which is tied for the most in D-1. Overall though, the state of Washington is not looking too great at the moment.

[rcrook]

think this thread is about seattle not those shit cities of spokane and pullman

[thesafeword]

Well no shit? I was just commenting on the whole situation for the state.

[+thecalisonme]

this might be the worst thread ever, im pretty sure people in pitt and detroit would trade all those super bowls and stanley cups for their jobs back

[StandMyBrothers]

that post might be the worst ever.

[preppyak]

this might be the worst thread ever, im pretty sure people in pitt and detroit would trade all those super bowls and stanley cups for their jobs back
yep...because that was the point of this discussion...it was totally about sports being more important than having a job.

We're in a sports forum, the "sport" aspect of it is implied in every discussion...unless someone specifically makes a different topic (like the general thread)

[CubbyNick42]

Hello, Job Store? Do you accept division titles as payment?

[Scott Weber]

i'm not sure there is a more worthless poster in the forum.

[preppyak]

i'm not sure there is a more worthless poster in the forum.
there are a couple of new guys making a run at it...but, he's got it in longevity

[Chris Fallon]

Time to look forward to March now. I guess I oughta get into MLS.

[StandMyBrothers]

Time to look forward to March now. I guess I oughta get into MLS.
I'm expecting the Sounders to get last place next year...maybe they can hope the Galaxy loses Donovan and Beckham.

[Chris Fallon]

I'm expecting the Sounders to get last place next year...maybe they can hope the Galaxy loses Donovan and Beckham.
I'm sure as an expansion team, last place is certain. Still, since I don't have the Sonics to turn to during the quiet winter period, I'm going to study on MLS so I can get to know my new team & their sport/opponents. Really, I don't know a damn thing about MLS or who's good, who's not -- minus Adu, Donovan and Beckham.

[LastPlaceRocks]

I'm not big into soccer (so I may be wrong), but I don't think Adu plays in the MLS anymore.

[StandMyBrothers]

I'm sure as an expansion team, last place is certain. Still, since I don't have the Sonics to turn to during the quiet winter period, I'm going to study on MLS so I can get to know my new team & their sport/opponents. Really, I don't know a damn thing about MLS or who's good, who's not -- minus Adu, Donovan and Beckham.
Adu is rotting away in France btw. haha your coach is one of the best MLS coaches, your DP (Ljungberg) is injury-prone (just had surgery) and you have a legendary American Goal Keeper

[thesafeword]

Thinking about Seattle sports makes me pretty depressed, especially the Mariners.

[Broken Parachute]

I'm not big into soccer (so I may be wrong), but I don't think Adu plays in the MLS anymore.Correct. He's at Monaco on loan from Benfica right now.

[chrstianrocker]

Go Thunder!!!

(I know we're bad, but better to have a bad team than none at all. And to all you Seattle peeps, I guess you never know what you have until it's gone...)

[Broken Parachute]

I'm sure as an expansion team, last place is certain. Still, since I don't have the Sonics to turn to during the quiet winter period, I'm going to study on MLS so I can get to know my new team & their sport/opponents. Really, I don't know a damn thing about MLS or who's good, who's not -- minus Adu, Donovan and Beckham.Don't worry. If you watch next season, you'll pick it up pretty easily. Just know that Juan Pablo Angel is a god and the best looking man in the league...by far.

[Scott Weber]

Go Thunder!!!

(I know we're bad, but better to have a bad team than none at all. And to all you Seattle peeps, I guess you never know what you have until it's gone...)
we knew what he had. what a dumb thing to say.

[Broken Parachute]

Go Thunder!!!

(I know we're bad, but better to have a bad team than none at all. And to all you Seattle peeps, I guess you never know what you have until it's gone...)LOL, really?

[preppyak]

I guess not wanting to get hijacked for a new stadium = not knowing what you had...

[LastPlaceRocks]

Correct. He's at Monaco on loan from Benfica right now.
Nice - I don't remember why I know that.

Go Thunder!!!

(I know we're bad, but better to have a bad team than none at all. And to all you Seattle peeps, I guess you never know what you have until it's gone...)
I like Oklahoma City and am glad that they finally have a major league sports team, but wow that's pouring salt in the wounds.

[Chris Fallon]

I'm not big into soccer (so I may be wrong), but I don't think Adu plays in the MLS anymore.
Yeah, see? Shows how little I know haha

Adu is rotting away in France btw. haha your coach is one of the best MLS coaches, your DP (Ljungberg) is injury-prone (just had surgery) and you have a legendary American Goal Keeper
I knew the coach was a big deal, but other than that, I know very little about our signings so far -- I'm gonna make sure I do some research so I can get familiar with what I ought to be expecting.

Go Thunder!!!

(I know we're bad, but better to have a bad team than none at all. And to all you Seattle peeps, I guess you never know what you have until it's gone...)
Yeah, we didn't know what we had... you're an asshole. I'm glad that ownership is losing money.

Don't worry. If you watch next season, you'll pick it up pretty easily. Just know that Juan Pablo Angel is a god and the best looking man in the league...by far.
I'm actually somewhat excited to get into a new sport -- getting a new team is pretty fun.

[Chris Fallon]

Thinking about Seattle sports makes me pretty depressed, especially the Mariners.
So far, I'm pretty happy with what the Mariners have done in the off-season. I like seeing a team make several moves when it knows it has to. Will it pay off? Who's to say right now, but it's always good to see a new approach.

[thesafeword]

So far, I'm pretty happy with what the Mariners have done in the off-season. I like seeing a team make several moves when it knows it has to. Will it pay off? Who's to say right now, but it's always good to see a new approach.
From what I see our pitching has a lot of work to do, we have Bedard and Hernandez, but that's about it. I'd really like to see Dickey become more consistent because he's either 0-2 runs or 8-10 runs. In the infield we have Beltre who is a pretty solid player, but not much else. Lopez is decent, but I don't know if we can count on the all-star year that he had a couple years back and from what I saw last year Betancourt really isn't anything special. Then in the outfield we are completely relying upopn Ichiro to not only carry the outfield, but the team. And we must admit, he is starting to age and he's not what he used to be. I haven't really followed our moves in the offseason, other than we lost Ibanez, who was probably our best player, to free agency and I remember seeing somewhere that we traded Putz, but I don't remember who we got. It's just a struggling organization in my eyes and I just hope that they've got something up their sleeves that I don't see, but something tells me that they don't. But we'll see.

[Scott Weber]

From what I see our pitching has a lot of work to do, we have Bedard and Hernandez, but that's about it. I'd really like to see Dickey become more consistent because he's either 0-2 runs or 8-10 runs. In the infield we have Beltre who is a pretty solid player, but not much else. Lopez is decent, but I don't know if we can count on the all-star year that he had a couple years back and from what I saw last year Betancourt really isn't anything special. Then in the outfield we are completely relying upopn Ichiro to not only carry the outfield, but the team. And we must admit, he is starting to age and he's not what he used to be. I haven't really followed our moves in the offseason, other than we lost Ibanez, who was probably our best player, to free agency and I remember seeing somewhere that we traded Putz, but I don't remember who we got. It's just a struggling organization in my eyes and I just hope that they've got something up their sleeves that I don't see, but something tells me that they don't. But we'll see.
Dickey got cut and signed with the Twins, buddy.

We got some really important pieces back for Putz. You should probably catch up.

[LastPlaceRocks]

The Twins picked up Dickey. Apparently Sidney Ponson wasn't available.

[thesafeword]

Dickey got cut and signed with the Twins, buddy.

We got some really important pieces back for Putz. You should probably catch up.
Yeah, haven't really payed much attention in this off season. That's a shame about Dickey though, I saw some good things in him.

[The Raine]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=38604921786

[Chris Fallon]

Dickey got cut and signed with the Twins, buddy.

We got some really important pieces back for Putz. You should probably catch up.
Hahaha, yeah that Putz trade was kinda big news.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I know people dismissed Cleveland earlier but i hope this puts it into perspective:

Browns: Last Super Bowl Championship - 1964
1970- 1995
- 194-195-3 record
- 6 Division titles
- 10 playoff appearances
- 0-3 in Conference Championship games
1995 – Art Modell rips the heart out of the city by moving the Browns to Baltimore
1999- present
- 54-106 record
- 1 playoff appearance

Indians: Last World Series Championship - 1948
1960 to 1993,
- 0.465 franchise winning percentage
- one third-place and 5 fourth-place finishes
- No division titles
- No playoff appearances
Since 1948,
- 7 division titles
- 0.505 franchise winning percentage
- 2-4 in ALCS appearances
- 0-3 in World Series appearances

Cavs: No NBA Championships
- In its 38 years in the league, has won the Central Division championship only once (1976-77 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976-77_NBA_season)) and the Eastern Conference championship only once (2006-07 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_NBA_season)).
- 16 playoff appearances
- 1 - 3 in conference finals

No NHL teams. A couple of minor league hockey teams and indoor soccer teams. No major colleges ( unless you count Cleveland St. ,Case Western Reserve, or John Carroll)

[LastPlaceRocks]

No respect for the Barons?

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

ha ha

i guess. i thought i would just cover the major 3 teams

[LastPlaceRocks]

ha ha

i guess. i thought i would just cover the major 3 teams
You're doing a disservice to Cleveland's ineptitude if the last major professional team to be merged is omitted. It's not like they're the Rockers or anything.

[tambo41187]

ha ha

i guess. i thought i would just cover the major 3 teams

There are plenty of cities that boast some woeful records of failure - Buffalo, Cleveland, Philly until recently - but that is not what the thread is about. The current shape of Cleveland sports is in pretty good shape when compared to Seattle - the Cavs have five losses, the Browns sucked this year but have a decent amount of talent, and the Indians were one win from the world series two years ago, and played great the second half of the season last year. Compare those teams with the Seattle franchises and you will see why that city is in such poor shape concerning its sports.

Also, I know Cleveland does not have a major college and I know that Ohio State is in Columbus....but every single person I have ever met from Cleveland worships Ohio State.

[LastPlaceRocks]

You missed San Diego - that city has to be up there for overall sports failure.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

There are plenty of cities that boast some woeful records of failure - Buffalo, Cleveland, Philly until recently - but that is not what the thread is about.

uh thats exactly what the thread is about :

has ther EVER been a city in worse shape

one could argue that Cleveland was in pretty bad shape in the late 80'c/early 90's

[Scott Weber]

uh thats exactly what the thread is about :

has ther EVER been a city in worse shape

one could argue that Cleveland was in pretty bad shape in the late 80'c/early 90's
it's about an individual point in time. it flat out does not compare.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I'm not trying to take away from what is happening in Seattle and yes i agree that it is more likely than not that Seattle is in worse shape sports wise than any city in the U.S. ever.

I was just providing evidence to inform people who caasually dismissed that Cleveland was not in bad shape . in the early 90's that town was hurting , very badly economiclly and in professional athletics. I was bron in Cleveland and love the cities sports teams as you love Seatle's teams.

You asked the question " Has there EVER been a city in worse shape?"

That is what this whole thread was supposed to be debating, which leads to the comparison of cities during certian time periods.

I was just saying that there is an argument for Cleveland. That is all.

[Scott Weber]

I'm not trying to take away from what is happening in Seattle and yes i agree that it is more likely than not that Seattle is in worse shape sports wise than any city in the U.S. ever.

I was just providing evidence to inform people who caasually dismissed that Cleveland was not in bad shape . in the early 90's that town was hurting , very badly economiclly and in professional athletics. I was bron in Cleveland and love the cities sports teams as you love Seatle's teams.

You asked the question " Has there EVER been a city in worse shape?"

That is what this whole thread was supposed to be debating, which leads to the comparison of cities during certian time periods.

I was just saying that there is an argument for Cleveland. That is all.
can you make an argument for cleveland then instead of posting their entire franchise history?

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

i can try .

Cleveland circa 1990 -1995:

Browns :
- go 39-57 in 6 seasons , averaging 6 wins a season
- unexpectally moved to Baltimore

Indians:
- Average 4th place in their division , no playoffs, crumbling stadium , new one being built , hope with Berega, lofton, and Visquel

Cavs:
- I was wrong here I didn;t realise they went to the playoffs 5 years in a row , getting out of the 1st round twice


Thats it - looking back on it now it doesn't look as bad as i thought.

I do admitt tho that there are periods when one the 3 Cleveland teams were doing well , Browns in the late 80's ( 3 AFC championship games) , Cavs in the early 90's , and Indians in late 90's ( 2 world series)

From a wider persepctive though Cleveland have not been world champions since 1964

[thesafeword]

To my knowledge, Seattle has one world champion. Well maybe two now that I think about it, because didn't the Storm win one a few years ago?

[Scott Weber]

To my knowledge, Seattle has one world champion. Well maybe two now that I think about it, because didn't the Storm win one a few years ago?
wnba doesn't count, come on. sonics won one in 1979 and are now gone. mariners have never been. seahawks have been to 1 and lost.

[thesafeword]

wnba doesn't count, come on. sonics won one in 1979 and are now gone. mariners have never been. seahawks have been to 1 and lost.
The Seahawks should've won.

[preppyak]

Cavs:
- I was wrong here I didn;t realise they went to the playoffs 5 years in a row , getting out of the 1st round twice
Yeah, the Mark Price era was pretty decent...I used to like that team as a whole...but, this is probably what makes that team the most memorable

aJsPzO4pDsQ&feature=related

Now that was a brutal run for Cleveland sports..."The Drive" in 87, "The Fumble" in 88, and "The Shot" in 89...in terms of soul-crushing moments, thats probably as brutal a streak as I've seen