Abortion

[Anthony Lutz]

What are your views on this controversial topic?

[Chromefox]

Pro-Choice. I can't think of a bad reason to terminate.

[ihatecayte]

def pro-choice.
i cannot stand those people that say no abortion unless the mother's life is in danger.
you expect a woman who has been a victim of rape or incest to carry that child for 9 months? talk about horrible mental and emotional damage, geezus. it bothers me soooooooo so much.
and i don't see most pro-lifers adopting children, but opting to reproduce themselves.

ugh. i could go on forever about this. ugh ugh ugh.

[Anthony Lutz]

def pro-choice.
i cannot stand those people that say no abortion unless the mother's life is in danger.
you expect a woman who has been a victim of rape of incest to carry that child for 9 months? talk about horrible mental and emotional damage, geezus. it bothers me soooooooo so much.
and i don't see most pro-lifers adopting children, but opting to reproduce themselves.

ugh. i could go on forever about this. ugh ugh ugh.

I definitely agree in regards to the pro-lifers not adopting. If you believed in it so much, then you should put your actions with your words.

[Poe-tryGirl]

Pro-choice. It's your kid for Pete's sake.

[LongDistanceDrunk]

I'm ok with it for the most part.I do think some people abuse it and keep getting multiple abortions. I am talking about the people that will have 4-5 abortions. After like 2 or more you would think someone would learn to use protection. I do think its fucking stupid all the mad crazy religious people will protest to no end and try to make women feel guilty. I watched a great episode of 30 Days (dude that made Super Size Me show) about abortion. It made me think about alot of stuff I never new about abortion and such.

[Posthardcore]

Pro-Life

[batmannj]

i am pro-life, but i also agree that in cases of incest or rape it should be left up to the mother of the child. Basically abortion in those instances, and in ones where a mother's life is in danger, is the main reason that Roe Vs. Wade was decided.

Women who have casual sex and get become impregnated is not what abortion was made for. It is not done in the women's best interest, but rather for her to save face and not be embarassed, to not bring shame to a family, so that the parents do not throw them out of the house, etc. A women in that case can give the baby up for adoption, or find a family who is more than willing to adopt, simply terminating the pregnancy is not the right way to go.

Also, there are religious people who do argue in a way that is not reflective of what they truly believe. Every life is special, and just being able to casually terminate a pregnancy is not something that should be left up to us.

[queenofcrouton]

def pro-choice.
i cannot stand those people that say no abortion unless the mother's life is in danger.
you expect a woman who has been a victim of rape or incest to carry that child for 9 months? talk about horrible mental and emotional damage, geezus. it bothers me soooooooo so much.
and i don't see most pro-lifers adopting children, but opting to reproduce themselves.

ugh. i could go on forever about this. ugh ugh ugh.

For the child growing up too.

[dpetty21]

A child is not an offical child until it is 5 months old. Atleast here in Ohio. Before that I see no reason why a women could not have her choice. It is her body.

[dpetty21]

And why we're on the subject. What is everyones favorite abortion method? I prefer the throwing down the steps method....jk

[Chromefox]

I'm ok with it for the most part.I do think some people abuse it and keep getting multiple abortions. I am talking about the people that will have 4-5 abortions. After like 2 or more you would think someone would learn to use protection. I do think its fucking stupid all the mad crazy religious people will protest to no end and try to make women feel guilty. I watched a great episode of 30 Days (dude that made Super Size Me show) about abortion. It made me think about alot of stuff I never new about abortion and such. See, to me, abortion is a perfectly fine option in that case, since a mother as unprepared or as retarded as that shouldn't be bringing a child into the world and raising another moron anyways. ;-)

Though preferably, those women would be chemically castrated after their third abortion instead.

[batmannj]

A child is not an offical child until it is 5 months old. Atleast here in Ohio. Before that I see no reason why a women could not have her choice. It is her body.

so, just curious, what exactly happens (other than standard growth) at that 5 month mark that takes the child from being *ahem* "unofficial" to an "official" child?

[Burn That Shit]

Pro choice.

[dpetty21]

so, just curious, what exactly happens (other than standard growth) at that 5 month mark that takes the child from being *ahem* "unofficial" to an "official" child?

I don't recall the specifics but when I took Criminal Law that is what the Ohio Revised Code says. They are not considered a living, breathing human until 5 months of age. I will try and find it later when I have more time.

[carnotaurhunter]

Pro-life. Abortion is never a positive thing, obviously. But it's really an issue of stopping unwanted pregnancies.

[dpetty21]

Why isn't abortion positive?

[Chromefox]

For those of you who are pro-life, please tell me why it is better to have a child born unwanted, to an unprepared mother, or into a circumstance poor for its upbringing? How is that better than nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to go hungry, neglected, or resented??

[jster2000]

Pro Choice

Pro- Life people can be so annoying
but i don't have a say in the whole thing

[LongDistanceDrunk]

For those of you who are pro-life, please tell me why it is better to have a child born unwanted, to an unprepared mother, or into a circumstance poor for its upbringing? How is that better than nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to go hungry, neglected, or resented??

WWJD = keep the baby

[LongDistanceDrunk]

See, to me, abortion is a perfectly fine option in that case, since a mother as unprepared or as retarded as that shouldn't be bringing a child into the world and raising another moron anyways. ;-)

Though preferably, those women would be chemically castrated after their third abortion instead.

Well said. That really put in perspective for me and changed my mind as well.

[MADSTA]

While I don't know if I'll ever get an abortion (hopefully I won't have to) I am definitely pro-choice. And not just for situations like rape. If a young couple is having protected sex, but the condom breaks (happened to a friend of a friend of mine... seriously) they shouldn't have to have the kid. It wouldnt be right for them or the child, they wouldn't be fit parents. I just really don't agree with the idea of taking away someone's choice.

[batmannj]

For those of you who are pro-life, please tell me why it is better to have a child born unwanted, to an unprepared mother, or into a circumstance poor for its upbringing? How is that better than nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to go hungry, neglected, or resented??
because not all of these children end up in the circumstances that you are describing. there are several parents who will adopt, and most of the girls who get these abortions are young and they are doing it to make sure that their parents don't throw them out of the house or disown them or whatever. i would like to think that at least some of the children who have been aborted would have brought serious change to this earth.

there are plenty of kids who are born each day and the parents may neglect or abuse them, so is it ok if we just execute them? i mean, clearly their lives aren't worth living because they have less than ideal parents.

the point is, we all go through suffering in this life. who are we to decide if a child should be able to live on nothing more than the basis that their parents may not be the best.

plus the answer to abortion is simple. there two options: 1) keep it in the barn. 2) have protected sex if keeping it in the barn is too difficult.

[batmannj]

While I don't know if I'll ever get an abortion (hopefully I won't have to) I am definitely pro-choice. And not just for situations like rape. If a young couple is having protected sex, but the condom breaks (happened to a friend of a friend of mine... seriously) they shouldn't have to have the kid. It wouldnt be right for them or the child, they wouldn't be fit parents. I just really don't agree with the idea of taking away someone's choice.
its not about taking away someone's choice. now, no offense to your friends, i understand that accidents do happen, but when they decided to have sexual intercourse (protected or not) they knew the possibility if the condom broke. They chose to have sex anyways and part of that is dealing with the consequences.

Such as, I go out drinking one evening, and I have a few beers too many. Later on that evening, I try and drive home, and I rationalize that it is only a few miles away. On the way home I run a red light hit a smaller vechile killing the two passengers. I didn't try to kill the people in the vehicle, it just happened. But when I had too many drinks and I decided to drive home, I chose that. Therefore, I have to deal with the consequences of my actions. While I understand that this is not the exact same circumstance, I like to think that is has some similar parallells.

I respect you opinion, and I am not trying to change your mind, I am just being as honest as I can in responding to your post.

[batmannj]

Pro Choice

Pro- Life people can be so annoying
but i don't have a say in the whole thing
pro choice people can be annoying too. there are people who are uneducated on each side of the fence.

[dpetty21]

WWJD = keep the baby


Jesus is a douchebag...

I hope you weren't serious.

[LongDistanceDrunk]

Jesus is a douchebag...

I hope you weren't serious.

yeah I was joking.

[dpetty21]

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up haha.

[Chromefox]

because not all of these children end up in the circumstances that you are describing. there are several parents who will adopt, and most of the girls who get these abortions are young and they are doing it to make sure that their parents don't throw them out of the house or disown them or whatever. i would like to think that at least some of the children who have been aborted would have brought serious change to this earth. Now, I don't know the actual figures, but what is the rate of non-medical abortions as opposed to the rate of adoption? How many kids get left behind as is?

And maybe some of the children that would've been born would become serial killers, rapists, or drug-lords instead of world leaders and peace advocates. You can't play the "what could have been" card, since anything could have been.

there are plenty of kids who are born each day and the parents may neglect or abuse them, so is it ok if we just execute them? i mean, clearly their lives aren't worth living because they have less than ideal parents. Now this we will not agree on, since there is absolutely no doubt that a child growing, living, and breathing outside the womb is a person, however in my opinion, a fetus is not a person, and that perspective negates your comment. There's no use for either of us to argue this comment, since it ultimately comes down to personal thoughts on the matter.

the point is, we all go through suffering in this life. who are we to decide if a child should be able to live on nothing more than the basis that their parents may not be the best. And who is government or religion to decide what a woman does with her own body? You feel that as soon as a seed is sown, its vessel ceases to have a choice in her own life as to whether or not she is capable of bringing said seed to fruiton?

plus the answer to abortion is simple. there two options: 1) keep it in the barn. 2) have protected sex if keeping it in the barn is too difficult. I agree with you here, but unfortunately, people are shit stupid, and will fail to heed the advice.

[dmarisca]

I imagine that everybody has a strong opinion about abortion. But again I do agree with many opinion polls (http://minekey.com/theopinion/240647/women-should-have-the-right-of-choice-to-have-an-abortion-or-not), which think Abortion is an extremely multi faceted and complicated topic, labeling it as a crime is way to over-simplifying it.

[josiahh]

I find that the strongest advocates for the pro-life movement are often male. I, as a male, have absolutely NO right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. The topic gets dicey though when you have the father wanting to keep the baby and the mother not wanting to. In this situation, I would still side with the mother. It is her body, it is her life for 9 months to carry the child. It is the emotional and physical stress placed on her, not the man.

I also am going to have to call out the person using a sweeping generalization saying that the majority of abortions are to 'save face.' If you honestly think that choosing to abort a pregnancy is that simple that is just ridiculous.

The argument that adoption is the best option is not always accurate. There are millions of children sitting in adoption homes as we speak; slipping through the cracks of foster care. There are millions upon millions of children in foreign countries that we can help. Why, if it can be helped, would we choose to contribute to the problem?

Life isn't like Juno all the time. It's not that simple to find a loving couple in the Super Shopper.

[batmannj]

Now, I don't know the actual figures, but what is the rate of non-medical abortions as opposed to the rate of adoption? How many kids get left behind as is?

And maybe some of the children that would've been born would become serial killers, rapists, or drug-lords instead of world leaders and peace advocates. You can't play the "what could have been" card, since anything could have been.

Now this we will not agree on, since there is absolutely no doubt that a child growing, living, and breathing outside the womb is a person, however in my opinion, a fetus is not a person, and that perspective negates your comment. There's no use for either of us to argue this comment, since it ultimately comes down to personal thoughts on the matter.

And who is government or religion to decide what a woman does with her own body? You feel that as soon as a seed is sown, its vessel ceases to have a choice in her own life as to whether or not she is capable of bringing said seed to fruiton?

I agree with you here, but unfortunately, people are shit stupid, and will fail to heed the advice.

lol on that last part.

the one thing that i do not understand (and i am not trying to be disrespectful) but i personally do not understand how a fetus is different from a living breathing person. they each have a heartbeat and sensory systems (obviously a fetus is now where near as developed as a child) and if the fetus where to be allowed to grow in the womb, they would eventually grow into a living breathing child. again, not trying to be overly sarcastic or disrespectful, i am just wondering what you think makes a person a person? is it being outside the womb, or is it when a child reaches a certain age inside the womb (the most common one i hear is 5 months.)

also on the part where anything could have happened, such as a child being a rapist, murderer, etc. or a world leader or peace advocate, i see where you are coming from, and i do understand that not everyone is going to grow into a world changing person, but i personally do not understand how we do not give all them an equal chance to grow into a person who has the chance to experience the gift of life.

also, thank you for replying respectfully. honestly it is hard to have a civil discussion with a topic this polarizing. i really do appreciate it, no joke.

[batmannj]

I find that the strongest advocates for the pro-life movement are often male. I, as a male, have absolutely NO right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. The topic gets dicey though when you have the father wanting to keep the baby and the mother not wanting to. In this situation, I would still side with the mother. It is her body, it is her life for 9 months to carry the child. It is the emotional and physical stress placed on her, not the man.

I also am going to have to call out the person using a sweeping generalization saying that the majority of abortions are to 'save face.' If you honestly think that choosing to abort a pregnancy is that simple that is just ridiculous.

The argument that adoption is the best option is not always accurate. There are millions of children sitting in adoption homes as we speak; slipping through the cracks of foster care. There are millions upon millions of children in foreign countries that we can help. Why, if it can be helped, would we choose to contribute to the problem?

Life isn't like Juno all the time. It's not that simple to find a loving couple in the Super Shopper.

i see what you are saying, but i was not saying that the majority of abortions happen to save face. i just find it irresponsible that women abuse the right of abortion by going out and having several of them by having careless casual sex without protection.

i do understand that it is difficult situation with the adoption and finding a couple to adopt a child, but i do think that is also a generalization to say that all the kids who would have been born if they were not aborted would just be lost in the shuffle. the truth is we do not know what could have been, and i believe that we do not have the right to take the right to life away from these children who would grow into a living breathing human being.

[Chromefox]

lol on that last part.

the one thing that i do not understand (and i am not trying to be disrespectful) but i personally do not understand how a fetus is different from a living breathing person. they each have a heartbeat and sensory systems (obviously a fetus is now where near as developed as a child) and if the fetus where to be allowed to grow in the womb, they would eventually grow into a living breathing child. again, not trying to be overly sarcastic or disrespectful, i am just wondering what you think makes a person a person? is it being outside the womb, or is it when a child reaches a certain age inside the womb (the most common one i hear is 5 months.)

also on the part where anything could have happened, such as a child being a rapist, murderer, etc. or a world leader or peace advocate, i see where you are coming from, and i do understand that not everyone is going to grow into a world changing person, but i personally do not understand how we do not give all them an equal chance to grow into a person who has the chance to experience the gift of life.

also, thank you for replying respectfully. honestly it is hard to have a civil discussion with a topic this polarizing. i really do appreciate it, no joke. To me, a baby is not a baby until it's come out of the womb, had the cord cut, and its first breath. If I were to study the pregnancy cycle in-depth, I could probably pick a satisfactory point somewhere along that line instead. Perhaps my opinion would change if I were to actually have one, but at this time in my life, this is how I feel. This does not mean though, that I support abortions down to the last minute, since after whichever point where it starts to actually look like a baby, an abortion could be traumatizing to anyone involved in the process. Also, if you're a mother and in the alotted 3-5 months time, if you fail to make a decision about whether or not you'd like to keep it, then you really don't deserve the decision, and the baby wins by default.

Abortion is tragic for everyone but the fetus. The fetus does not care. I doubt it can care, but if I was provided solid scientific proof that it could, I may change my outlook entirely. It's selfish to abort a child, but it's also selfish of us to tell women what to do with their bodies and their futures because of our personal beliefs.

And you're entirely welcome. I appreciate your responses as well. You're posing some excellent questions and making me think about how I feel.

[samsara]

i will go with pro-choice because i think women should have a say in what goes on with their body

but i am against partial birth abortions

[jbaseball44]

Pro Choice

[didwhat77times]

Pro Choice
People say "If you're against gay marriage, don't get one" and I think the same can be said about abortions. If you're against them, don't get one.

I'm a college student, I'm always racing off to class at the last minute, stuck taking the stairs up to and down from my apartment on the 13th floor due to broken elevators, sitting through hours of class, sleeping 0-5 hours per night, etc. I couldn't do any of that if I was pregnant... I'd have to put my life on hold, take a semester off, and go home. All for a baby I wouldn't end up keeping.

No woman should be stuck with an unwanted pregnancy. Even if the baby was going to be put up for adoption, and all medical expenses were taken care of, it wouldn't change the fact that being pregnant drastically changes the way you live your life.

I'm not even going to get stared on on a pregnancy due to rape and or incest, because I could rant about that all day.

[Frequency]

Pro-abortion since it lowers crime rates and less money has to be spent on prisons and education.

[Machu505]

Pro-choice

[Chellebellx0210]

lol on that last part.

the one thing that i do not understand (and i am not trying to be disrespectful) but i personally do not understand how a fetus is different from a living breathing person. they each have a heartbeat and sensory systems (obviously a fetus is now where near as developed as a child) and if the fetus where to be allowed to grow in the womb, they would eventually grow into a living breathing child. again, not trying to be overly sarcastic or disrespectful, i am just wondering what you think makes a person a person? is it being outside the womb, or is it when a child reaches a certain age inside the womb (the most common one i hear is 5 months.)


also, thank you for replying respectfully. honestly it is hard to have a civil discussion with a topic this polarizing. i really do appreciate it, no joke.

To add on to that,

The unborn child is human.

Yep. Obviously a zygote is human, what else would it be? A dog? A cat, perhaps? A goat. No, no, no. Genetically there is no question. A zygote has human parents, therefore it is human (the law of Biogenesis). It belongs to the species Homo Sapiens. It has human DNA. 46 chromosomes. To quote French geneticist Jermoe L. LeJeune:

"To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. The human nature of the human being from conception to old age is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence.

So this is matter of fact, not opinion. The child is genetically human.

[dpetty21]

Pro Choice
People say "If you're against gay marriage, don't get one" and I think the same can be said about abortions. If you're against them, don't get one.

I'm a college student, I'm always racing off to class at the last minute, stuck taking the stairs up to and down from my apartment on the 13th floor due to broken elevators, sitting through hours of class, sleeping 0-5 hours per night, etc. I couldn't do any of that if I was pregnant... I'd have to put my life on hold, take a semester off, and go home. All for a baby I wouldn't end up keeping.

No woman should be stuck with an unwanted pregnancy. Even if the baby was going to be put up for adoption, and all medical expenses were taken care of, it wouldn't change the fact that being pregnant drastically changes the way you live your life.

I'm not even going to get stared on on a pregnancy due to rape and or incest, because I could rant about that all day.


I agree with all of this.

[josiahh]

To add on to that,

The unborn child is human.

Yep. Obviously a zygote is human, what else would it be? A dog? A cat, perhaps? A goat. No, no, no. Genetically there is no question. A zygote has human parents, therefore it is human (the law of Biogenesis). It belongs to the species Homo Sapiens. It has human DNA. 46 chromosomes. To quote French geneticist Jermoe L. LeJeune:

"To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. The human nature of the human being from conception to old age is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence.

So this is matter of fact, not opinion. The child is genetically human.

Not to flog a dead horse, but, you are once again quoting a male, and how, is this single quote supposed to say as you say, that is it is a matter of fact?

It is so easy to argue something you will NEVER understand personally. I will never know the responsibility of carrying a child. I would never argue abortion as a first option...and in that sense i guess i can say that i am pro-life, BUT, you simply CANNOT take away a woman's RIGHT to decide what can and cannot happen to their own body. Which is why, in good conscience i could NEVER be anti-choice.

Labels are incredibly important...to be pro-choice is not to be anti-life...it is simply stating that i have no right to tell another individual what they should do with their life and body.

Making abortion illegal would be a ridiculously self-righteous and irresponsible decision.
Don't get me wrong, i think that if possible, abortion should be a last option, but, you just CANNOT take away the right to choose.

[batmannj]

To me, a baby is not a baby until it's come out of the womb, had the cord cut, and its first breath. If I were to study the pregnancy cycle in-depth, I could probably pick a satisfactory point somewhere along that line instead. Perhaps my opinion would change if I were to actually have one, but at this time in my life, this is how I feel. This does not mean though, that I support abortions down to the last minute, since after whichever point where it starts to actually look like a baby, an abortion could be traumatizing to anyone involved in the process. Also, if you're a mother and in the alotted 3-5 months time, if you fail to make a decision about whether or not you'd like to keep it, then you really don't deserve the decision, and the baby wins by default.

Abortion is tragic for everyone but the fetus. The fetus does not care. I doubt it can care, but if I was provided solid scientific proof that it could, I may change my outlook entirely. It's selfish to abort a child, but it's also selfish of us to tell women what to do with their bodies and their futures because of our personal beliefs.

And you're entirely welcome. I appreciate your responses as well. You're posing some excellent questions and making me think about how I feel.

I am not sure of the exact science behind it, but I do know that a baby can feel pain at a pretty early time in the pregnancy. At what period, I am not sure, I will try and find it out. As for the fetus caring or not, I am not sure if they can "care" in a sense of whether or not they could choose for it to happen or not, but I do believe that a baby will certainly have the instinct of survival.

I understand that it is selfish to tell a women what to do with her body, and I believe this is where the Pro-Life/Pro-Choice debate is most hotly contested. I believe that life begins at conception and from that point on the fetus/embryo has the right to life. I do believe that in cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life being threatened it is acceptable to take the time to make sure that the woman is the first priority, but if a pregnancy is the result of normal consensual sex, the fetus (this is in my opinion) has the same right to life as the mother, and is a human being itself. I understand that this is not what everyone believes, but this is just how I feel.

Like I said before, I am glad that we can discuss this in a civil manner. I have been involved in debates in the past where people yell and scream at each other over this, and the truth is that that will accomplish absolutely nothing. To be honest, I think it is tough because so many people go online and drop as many swear words as they can in a debate and it only makes others more defensive and less likely to come to any sort of middle ground. Again, thank you for your respect.

[Chromefox]

I am not sure of the exact science behind it, but I do know that a baby can feel pain at a pretty early time in the pregnancy. At what period, I am not sure, I will try and find it out. As for the fetus caring or not, I am not sure if they can "care" in a sense of whether or not they could choose for it to happen or not, but I do believe that a baby will certainly have the instinct of survival.

I understand that it is selfish to tell a women what to do with her body, and I believe this is where the Pro-Life/Pro-Choice debate is most hotly contested. I believe that life begins at conception and from that point on the fetus/embryo has the right to life. I do believe that in cases of rape, incest, or the mother's life being threatened it is acceptable to take the time to make sure that the woman is the first priority, but if a pregnancy is the result of normal consensual sex, the fetus (this is in my opinion) has the same right to life as the mother, and is a human being itself. I understand that this is not what everyone believes, but this is just how I feel.

Like I said before, I am glad that we can discuss this in a civil manner. I have been involved in debates in the past where people yell and scream at each other over this, and the truth is that that will accomplish absolutely nothing. To be honest, I think it is tough because so many people go online and drop as many swear words as they can in a debate and it only makes others more defensive and less likely to come to any sort of middle ground. Again, thank you for your respect. The more I consider this topic, the more complicated my opinion becomes. If people weren't largely stupid, selfish, cruel, useless, and dishonest (or, if you like, if I wasn't a misanthrope), I'd be inclined to wish the same chance for everyone, but life is unfair, and people are appalling, so a piece of my opinion hinges on that the fewer, the better.

I guess that feeling this way doesn't make me pro-choice so much as anti-life, which makes me absolutely no better than all of the kinds of people I've panned in the last paragraph.

Well, thank you for the civil discussion, even though all I ended up discovering is that I'm a huge bastard. :-d

[batmannj]

The more I consider this topic, the more complicated my opinion becomes. If people weren't largely stupid, selfish, cruel, useless, and dishonest (or, if you like, if I wasn't a misanthrope), I'd be inclined to wish the same chance for everyone, but life is unfair, and people are appalling, so a piece of my opinion hinges on that the fewer, the better.

I guess that feeling this way doesn't make me pro-choice so much as anti-life, which makes me absolutely no better than all of the kinds of people I've panned in the last paragraph.

Well, thank you for the civil discussion, even though all I ended up discovering is that I'm a huge bastard. :-d

lol, a bastard, you are not. i see where you are going with a lot of your opinions and i understand and respect your right to feel the way you do. I don't think that makes you a bastard.

[Chromefox]

lol, a bastard, you are not. i see where you are going with a lot of your opinions and i understand and respect your right to feel the way you do. I don't think that makes you a bastard. Appreciated. Likewise, your feelings on the topic don't make me think poorly of you.

[schaft0620]

Abortion is a topic that men should not get involved with. The top women doctors and politicians in this word should all come together and decide what should be the right curse of action for the people. Men will never know what it like to have a life inside of them women make the mistakes they deal with the burden who the fuck cares what some 60 year old NRA card carrying member says about this. When is a life a life anyways? When it exits the womb? when the seamen leaves the penis? Any one person who decides this is clearly playing god.

[map8705]

For those of you who are pro-life, please tell me why it is better to have a child born unwanted, to an unprepared mother, or into a circumstance poor for its upbringing? How is that better than nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to go hungry, neglected, or resented??

Those would be horrible conditions for a child to be born into, but I would say pro-life because at least the kid has a chance to live then. I know that if I was a baby and was capable of critical thinking (which I know is impossible) and the doctor said to me "ok baby your not gonna be born into the best of conditions, do you want me to just terminate your existence right now, or do you wanna give the whole living thing a try?" I would chose to be alive every time. One of the things that always bothered me about "pro-choice" is that the baby doesn't have a choice. Abortion is usually used as a mothers "get out of jail free card", If you get pregnant you should face the consequences. Now that being said If rape or incest is involved then I say that a women should have the right to choose, but in other situations I would have to agree with pro-life.

[tonighttonight0]

Pro Choice

[redrose]

i chose pro-choice only because i dont think other ppl should tell me what to do with my own body, but personally i'm pro-life but its hard to say even now until you get put into that situation......and no offense to the men out there but if anything your opinions should be at the bottom of the barrel considering that you dont have to harbor it in your bellies for nine months and go through all the changes pregnant women go through

[princesschad]

Pro-choice.

[phil19]

women should always have the right to choose

[SmokieB.High]

And why we're on the subject. What is everyones favorite abortion method? I prefer the throwing down the steps method....jk
Bleach and a coat hanger

[dpetty21]

Ahh now that's a classic.

[BJW7191]

prolife... if youre the skeeza skank bag who cant keep her legs closed, then give the thing up... dont kill it... YOUR BABY HAS FINGERNAILS!!!

[Alex DiVincenzo]

Pro choice

[robz4]

I'm pro-choice, but I believe that choice should always be life.

[SeanEBoy2686]

personally i'm pro-life, but i believe a woman should have the right to choose

[genericmadness]

Abortion is a topic that men should not get involved with. The top women doctors and politicians in this word should all come together and decide what should be the right curse of action for the people. Men will never know what it like to have a life inside of them women make the mistakes they deal with the burden who the fuck cares what some 60 year old NRA card carrying member says about this. When is a life a life anyways? When it exits the womb? when the seamen leaves the penis? Any one person who decides this is clearly playing god.

lol, 'seamen'?

[xrateddream]

Ive had a chance to read this discussion and I want to tell you a few things about how I feel.

I am 24 years old, and I have a beautiful son who is almost 6 months old. When his mother told me that she was pregnant I was really shocked, since we used birth control and a protection( THE LITTLE GUY JUST WANTED TO BE BORN!!)

I used to ignorantly think that having an abortion wasnt a big deal, but as soon as Ii heard the heartbeat, and I saw him on the ultrasounds, I couldn't imagine life would be without him. I think i am on a level that a 17 year old is no where near though. Do you really know what you want at 17? Personally in that case, if you have no career direction and you drink and you wouldn't make a good parent, I think keeping the child and having it for adoption is the most logical.

I dont believe in abortion since my child was born. It's such a moving and precious experience that I wouldnt have traded the world for. Of course I'm biased since I have a kid.

Anyway, so I believe in Pro-Life. A life is too precious to end.

[schaft0620]

lol, 'seamen'?

rofl I posted on iPhone

[derekmoyer4]

pro-choice

[Deadbolt01]

Definitly pro-choice. The decision should be the mother's. If you disagree with Abortion so much, don't get an abortion and encourage your friends and family to not get an abortion if that situation should arrive. It's not fair for people who are not against Abortion to be banned from getting one purely because of what someone else believes.

Basically, Pro-choice people should be allowed to have an abortion, if pro-lifers disagree with it they should jsut not get one. The mother deserves the choice either way.

[ryanh12]

For those of you who are pro-life, please tell me why it is better to have a child born unwanted, to an unprepared mother, or into a circumstance poor for its upbringing? How is that better than nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to go hungry, neglected, or resented??

1/3 of today's generation has been terminated, and couples who cannot have children wait years for an opportunity to adopt. I wonder what could have been accomplished with the babies who have been terminated. Maybe bad things would happen as a result, but also the opportunity for great things to be done (cure for diseases, amazing athlete, or just a good neighbor) but why should it be our choice on how that person ends up? It seems pretty selfish for a mother and father do terminate the life because of the mistake they made. Its pretty ridiculous to assume that if a baby is born to an unprepared mother, that it will go hungry and die of starvation. I'm pretty sure a couple who cannot have children would adopt it before that happens.

[Tim Lincecum]

im pro abortion...

[element11790]

For those of you who are pro-life, please tell me why it is better to have a child born unwanted, to an unprepared mother, or into a circumstance poor for its upbringing? How is that better than nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to go hungry, neglected, or resented??

There's adoption dumbass

[showyourteeth]

pro-life

[Chromefox]

There's adoption dumbass And how many fucking children are there out there passing through foster care and rotting in orphanages because people would rather have their own flesh and blood than someone else's?

Shut the fuck up if you're not going to treat people with respect in this matter.

[element11790]

And how many fucking children are there out there passing through foster care and rotting in orphanages because people would rather have their own flesh and blood than someone else's?

Shut the fuck up if you're not going to treat people with respect in this matter.

Easy there buddy. I think this whole thing is so absurd. I mean when you think about this logically, when is ok to kill another human life? I agree with whoever said this before that in the case of rape or incest or the safety of the mother that the choice is up to the mother. But when it comes to woman who are having casual sex and having a baby is inconveinent that its not right to terminate a life. And there are plenty of couples who would kill to take these children in

[JustAnotherPoet]

As a woman, I don't really like the idea of the government imposing laws on what I can and can't do with my body. There are so many "what-if" situations that come up to make the topic controversial, but in my opinion- if you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. It's really not that gracious to preach guilt into other people who are in a worse enough situation as it is.

[etrox318]

Where's the undecided option?
I'm pretty pro choice, but I don't want 13 year old girls to use abortion as a radical form of birth control, like they seem to be doing now.

[OnLettingGo]

pro-life but i don't like to speak in absolutes. there are exceptions to most things.

[Chromefox]

Easy there buddy. I think this whole thing is so absurd. I mean when you think about this logically, when is ok to kill another human life? I agree with whoever said this before that in the case of rape or incest or the safety of the mother that the choice is up to the mother. But when it comes to woman who are having casual sex and having a baby is inconveinent that its not right to terminate a life. And there are plenty of couples who would kill to take these children in Now, if only you could have said that the first time instead of calling me a dumbass, we would've been off to a fine and dandy start.

[LongDistanceDrunk]

smmorshion would have been a better thread title

[element11790]

Now, if only you could have said that the first time instead of calling me a dumbass, we would've been off to a fine and dandy start.

yeah my bad...
i blame my hate for thanksgiving

[knklotze]

Pro-Choice, fo' sho'.

[tait]

pro choice

[batmannj]

Definitly pro-choice. The decision should be the mother's. If you disagree with Abortion so much, don't get an abortion and encourage your friends and family to not get an abortion if that situation should arrive. It's not fair for people who are not against Abortion to be banned from getting one purely because of what someone else believes.

Basically, Pro-choice people should be allowed to have an abortion, if pro-lifers disagree with it they should jsut not get one. The mother deserves the choice either way.

the one thing i dont get is that on the pro-choice side, some people always argue this. that if we are against abortion so dont push the idea on everyone. i see where the argument stems from, but what i do not understand is it only applies to pro-life people. according to this logic, abortion should not be legal because it is unfair to the child/fetus/embryo/group of cells with a heartbeat (whatever floats your boat), to not have the chance at life simply because what someone else believes.

[Deadbolt01]

the one thing i dont get is that on the pro-choice side, some people always argue this. that if we are against abortion so dont push the idea on everyone. i see where the argument stems from, but what i do not understand is it only applies to pro-life people. according to this logic, abortion should not be legal because it is unfair to the child/fetus/embryo/group of cells with a heartbeat (whatever floats your boat), to not have the chance at life simply because what someone else believes.
Good point, by I stick by my pro-choice belief. I don't think multiple abortion is a good thing though.

[batmannj]

Good point, by I stick by my pro-choice belief. I don't think multiple abortion is a good thing though.

and thats perfectly fine. and i agree with the multiple abortions part, i mean i am pro-life, but when some women go out and just do it casually, it is kind of sad.

[sammyboy516]

pro life

[circatbs]

prochoice. people should be able to choose what they do with their body and they should be able to have that option of abortion if it is indeed necessary.

[Kay~kay]

i think ppl should have a choice. Its their bodies. However my own mother was raped and she had the child(not me, she was adopted) but even with that said ppl should consider adoption because there r sooo many kids who need to be adopted.

[badguy0987]

its not about taking away someone's choice.

[risew/thefallen]

What are your views on this controversial topic?



you opened up pandora's box. especially on this site. here comes another ridiculously long thread with massive insults and ignorance. on both parties.

[BruisedxBroken]

pro-life for neo-cons really just means anti-choice. there's nothing pro-life about executing the convicted, especially when those convicted are at or below the line of mental retardation...

[Anthony Lutz]

you opened up pandora's box. especially on this site. here comes another ridiculously long thread with massive insults and ignorance. on both parties.

:wave:

[alaskan]

Pro-choice. It's your kid for Pete's sake.

i am going to go home and beat my children now, because they are my children

worst reasoning ever

[domotime2]

i am a democrat...liberal.......i am pro-life. I personally believe life believes at conception, so with that in mind there would be very little to sway in any other direction. Of course in cases of rape, or rape incest, or under the age of 18 or over the age of 59....I am very open to exceptions. But other than those cases, I see no reason why the mother shouldn't go through with the baby. If you're 18 and older, you are well aware of the consequences of sex...and its not something a pesron should take lightly....

there are dozens of different methods to avoid pregnancy and STD's....but people still choose to ignore them and end up costing live fetuses a chance to be born. It's not fair.

[Poe-tryGirl]

i am going to go home and beat my children now, because they are my children

worst reasoning ever
That's not what I meant. Geez!

[PopPunkKid]

I'm more on the pro-life side personally.

I do believe that in a case like rape, abortion is definetly acceptable, and also in a situation where it threatens the mothers life. But overall abortion really IS murder, and you can't deny it.

I mean there wouldn't be as much of a problem if some people just practiced safer sex or even *gasp* waited for sex til they found someone they knew they loved and actually want to have a child with.

Before you blast me, just know that I'm not some hardcore Christian advocate, and I'm not one of those people that thinks sex should be saved only for marriage, but I do think love should be present before a sexual relationship is present. I kind of look down upon people who practice promiscuous sex.

Putting a child up for adoption > Abortion.


Just my opinions, anyway... flame away.

[PopPunkKid]

i am going to go home and beat my children now, because they are my children

worst reasoning ever


Haha. Amen

[AbeLurkin]

i am a democrat...liberal.......i am pro-life. I personally believe life believes at conception, so with that in mind there would be very little to sway in any other direction. Of course in cases of rape, or rape incest, or under the age of 18 or over the age of 59....I am very open to exceptions. But other than those cases, I see no reason why the mother shouldn't go through with the baby. If you're 18 and older, you are well aware of the consequences of sex...and its not something a pesron should take lightly....

there are dozens of different methods to avoid pregnancy and STD's....but people still choose to ignore them and end up costing live fetuses a chance to be born. It's not fair.

so...based on what you said, you are pro-choice.

[White]

What is the big deal with abortion? The point I want to make here is that human life just isn't so valuable. And to be honest, there's WAY TOO FUCKING MANY of us on this Earth as it is! I think pro-lifers are crazy bastards who want to get us all killed! Do you know how many of our problems, as a society, are caused by overpopulation?

Pro-lifers answer this by saying, "Stop having sex!" I've never heard such nonsense in my life. You people are disconnected from reality. How do you expect a race of creatures, or even a nation of people, to stop having sex? No one's going to stop having sex. Sex is a great way for adults to play together. It's 2008 now and trying to make people believe that it's wrong to have sex without the intention of making a baby isn't going to work anymore, because modern society is just too well-informed.

I mean, god damn! You want to control a woman's body, and now you want to control SEX?? You people are control freaks. A little bitty fetus has never done anything for anyone. It doesn't have any friends, and nobody really cares about it except the person it's growing in. So if SHE doesn't want it, holy shit! Get rid of it! You're personifying something that isn't a person yet. Yes, if you leave it alone it might become a person one day. But until it is, you're just being ridiculous trying to force people to bring more jackasses into this shithole of a world that's already overpopulated. You're an asshole!

My view has always been that it's wrong to kill (or maliciously hurt) ANYTHING that is sentient; unless it's a necessity like food. I'd sooner abort an embryo than even just kick a dog. This line of discussion takes us back to the whole Cowboys and Indians thing, where the White men destroy the buffalo population for hides and tongues while the Natives kill sentient creatures only in moderation and conservation and only out of necessity.

The fact of the matter is that killing will indeed occur, even the killing of creatures that can feel. It must. Morality therefore cannot concern itself with the fact of the matter; It can only weigh on the details, specifically the fact that "it must." It draws a veritable line between what killing must take place and what killing is less than necessary -- necessity, of course, being predetermined after its own separate debate.

Following this most solid train of logic, it will go without saying that the killing of any sentient being -- when the killing is unnecessary -- is immoral. In basic terms, sentience is the ability to sense. To feel. Sentience is the difference between the machine that is life and the beauty that is life. And I apologize for saying something this weighty in a passing manner, but it is actually the much-sought 'reason' for living. And it is the reason that even while amidst such heated debate as abortion and animal rights, no one whatsoever is against the moderate killing of non-endangered plants.

And it is quite true that abortion is wholly unnecessary except in such a case where the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or both. Usually, abortion is a way for one or more parents to free themselves of the responsibility they've thrust upon themselves by their typically foolish or uneducated actions. The only question that remains, then, is whether or not the life that is being killed is sentient. Sentience in human beings, as with the majority of sentient creatures, comes from the central nervous system or, more specifically for humans, the encephalon.

I'm no biologist, but I've done exhaustive research for years since taking an interest in this matter in my freshman year of high school ten years ago. All of my research has lead me to believe that an embryo is not sentient and that a fetus takes a few days to develop the human sentience systems, nervous and encephalic. That means after Week 8. Therefore I find absolutely nothing wrong with abortion in Week 8 or before, period.

Between Week 8 and Week 15 (the second half of the first trimester) is a little bit different. I'm okay with it still, just not as completely. The fetus begins to develop some critical systems, but is still very rudimentary. During this stage it's still very quick and painless to kill the fetus. The mother feels more pain than the fetus would. A lot of women wait until their cycle is late to determine pregnancy, which sometimes varies and could take 6 weeks or more. My 8-week guideline is kind of strict, so 12 to 15 weeks gives more time for things like this, and also to learn about abortion and reflect on the pregnancy and whether or not the mother really wants to abort.

Here's the thing about the value of human life: The reason people view life as being so precious is because you get to feel things; in other words, sentience. Sometimes people take it further and talk about how much art and science our societies have achieved, but really that's just arrogance. The pros of life just don't outweigh the cons -- not when you're talking about forcing people to carry their (OWN!) seed to term.

Pro-lifers try to make all abortion out to be baby-killing. That's just flat-out deception. We all know and love what a baby is. An 8-week-old embryo is not that. Not even by a stretch of the imagination. If I told you to hold a 12-week-old fetus, you would not smile and giggle and tickle its tummy. And I just can't let the fact go that there's too many people in the world and not enough goddamn resources. Forcing every pregnancy to term is insanity. Not every person you see needs to exist.

There just aren't any arguments. You can't say "potential!" because that goes both ways. You can't say "soul!" because you have no fucking idea as to whether there is a such thing and, if there is, when the human body becomes ensouled. You can't say "precious!" because nothing we ever do on a day-to-day basis supports the notion that we find every human life to be especially precious. A lot of pro-lifers support the War in Iraq and other similar aggressions, which kill innocent children that have already been born and are written off as "casualties of war." Nothing the Earth does supports the notion of human preciousness. Nothing that happens in the entire Universe supports it.

Fetuses die in the womb, during birth, and after birth. Sometimes they live, but without the crown of their skull. Sometimes they're born with a little piece of another fetus sticking out. Sometimes they're born with a condition that automatically sentences them to a painful death that will come soon. Sometimes more painful and not so soon, which is even more cruel. My point is, there just isn't anything especially valuable about human life that you have to get into people's business about it. Unless there's a need to get involved, stay the hell out of people's business.

[ryanh12]

I don't think the fact that those who can't have children themselves have to go through major hassle to adopt is legitimate grounds for making abortion illegal (which will only drive it underground and make things worse, hence why it was legalised in the first place).

Plus millions die every year from AIDS, cancer, miscarriages, starvation, war and whatever else. Don't play the bleeding heart story here. There are billions already alive who desperately need help. Let's tackle that huge problem before we start forcing even more humans onto the earth shall we?

My bad, i forgot killing babies wasn't a huge problem.

WORLDWIDE
Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million

AIDS deaths in 2007 2.0 million.

You're right aids is the huge problem to tackle before we worry about the less important things like abortion

[ryanh12]

What is the big deal with abortion? The point I want to make here is that human life just isn't so valuable. And to be honest, there's WAY TOO FUCKING MANY of us on this Earth as it is! I think pro-lifers are crazy bastards who want to get us all killed! Do you know how many of our problems, as a society, are caused by overpopulation?

Pro-lifers answer this by saying, "Stop having sex!" I've never heard such nonsense in my life. You people are disconnected from reality. How do you expect a race of creatures, or even a nation of people, to stop having sex? No one's going to stop having sex. Sex is a great way for adults to play together. It's 2008 now and trying to make people believe that it's wrong to have sex without the intention of making a baby isn't going to work anymore, because modern society is just too well-informed.

I mean, god damn! You want to control a woman's body, and now you want to control SEX?? You people are control freaks. A little bitty fetus has never done anything for anyone. It doesn't have any friends, and nobody really cares about it except the person it's growing in. So if SHE doesn't want it, holy shit! Get rid of it! You're personifying something that isn't a person yet. Yes, if you leave it alone it might become a person one day. But until it is, you're just being ridiculous trying to force people to bring more jackasses into this shithole of a world that's already overpopulated. You're an asshole!

My view has always been that it's wrong to kill (or maliciously hurt) ANYTHING that is sentient; unless it's a necessity like food. I'd sooner abort an embryo than even just kick a dog. This line of discussion takes us back to the whole Cowboys and Indians thing, where the White men destroy the buffalo population for hides and tongues while the Natives kill sentient creatures only in moderation and conservation and only out of necessity.

The fact of the matter is that killing will indeed occur, even the killing of creatures that can feel. It must. Morality therefore cannot concern itself with the fact of the matter; It can only weigh on the details, specifically the fact that "it must." It draws a veritable line between what killing must take place and what killing is less than necessary -- necessity, of course, being predetermined after its own separate debate.

Following this most solid train of logic, it will go without saying that the killing of any sentient being -- when the killing is unnecessary -- is immoral. In basic terms, sentience is the ability to sense. To feel. Sentience is the difference between the machine that is life and the beauty that is life. And I apologize for saying something this weighty in a passing manner, but it is actually the much-sought 'reason' for living. And it is the reason that even while amidst such heated debate as abortion and animal rights, no one whatsoever is against the moderate killing of non-endangered plants.

And it is quite true that abortion is wholly unnecessary except in such a case where the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or both. Usually, abortion is a way for one or more parents to free themselves of the responsibility they've thrust upon themselves by their typically foolish or uneducated actions. The only question that remains, then, is whether or not the life that is being killed is sentient. Sentience in human beings, as with the majority of sentient creatures, comes from the central nervous system or, more specifically for humans, the encephalon.

I'm no biologist, but I've done exhaustive research for years since taking an interest in this matter in my freshman year of high school ten years ago. All of my research has lead me to believe that an embryo is not sentient and that a fetus takes a few days to develop the human sentience systems, nervous and encephalic. That means after Week 8. Therefore I find absolutely nothing wrong with abortion in Week 8 or before, period.

Between Week 8 and Week 15 (the second half of the first trimester) is a little bit different. I'm okay with it still, just not as completely. The fetus begins to develop some critical systems, but is still very rudimentary. During this stage it's still very quick and painless to kill the fetus. The mother feels more pain than the fetus would. A lot of women wait until their cycle is late to determine pregnancy, which sometimes varies and could take 6 weeks or more. My 8-week guideline is kind of strict, so 12 to 15 weeks gives more time for things like this, and also to learn about abortion and reflect on the pregnancy and whether or not the mother really wants to abort.

Here's the thing about the value of human life: The reason people view life as being so precious is because you get to feel things; in other words, sentience. Sometimes people take it further and talk about how much art and science our societies have achieved, but really that's just arrogance. The pros of life just don't outweigh the cons -- not when you're talking about forcing people to carry their (OWN!) seed to term.

Pro-lifers try to make all abortion out to be baby-killing. That's just flat-out deception. We all know and love what a baby is. An 8-week-old embryo is not that. Not even by a stretch of the imagination. If I told you to hold a 12-week-old fetus, you would not smile and giggle and tickle its tummy. And I just can't let the fact go that there's too many people in the world and not enough goddamn resources. Forcing every pregnancy to term is insanity. Not every person you see needs to exist.

There just aren't any arguments. You can't say "potential!" because that goes both ways. You can't say "soul!" because you have no fucking idea as to whether there is a such thing and, if there is, when the human body becomes ensouled. You can't say "precious!" because nothing we ever do on a day-to-day basis supports the notion that we find every human life to be especially precious. A lot of pro-lifers support the War in Iraq and other similar aggressions, which kill innocent children that have already been born and are written off as "casualties of war." Nothing the Earth does supports the notion of human preciousness. Nothing that happens in the entire Universe supports it.

Fetuses die in the womb, during birth, and after birth. Sometimes they live, but without the crown of their skull. Sometimes they're born with a little piece of another fetus sticking out. Sometimes they're born with a condition that automatically sentences them to a painful death that will come soon. Sometimes more painful and not so soon, which is even more cruel. My point is, there just isn't anything especially valuable about human life that you have to get into people's business about it. Unless there's a need to get involved, stay the hell out of people's business.


Obviously you have done a lot of research, I just have a hard time believing the statement saying "there just isn't anything especially valuable about human life". Actually the entire worlds view is that human life is the most valuable thing to ever exist. If human life wasn't valuable then no one in the world, or in the history of the world would strive to do anything. The goal for every person who has ever lived is to improve life, either for themselves, or for others (inventions, government, education, ipods, anything). Even if there way of going about it is completely wrong. Everything money is spent on is to help, improve, or continue life according to person's opinion. I know, "war" isn't spent on continuing life, but no one would go to war if they two oppositions were not trying to improve their own well being.

So its hard for me see the validity of your statements if it goes against the one common thing between every human no matter what religion, race, gender, or any other difference you can think of, and that commonality is the value of human life.

[ryanh12]

Fetuses are not babies. Whether abortion is right or wrong a fetus is not a baby. No one, not even the hardest pro lifer believes that. If you made a pro lifer pick between aborting a fetus and killing a living human they would choose the abortion everytime.



What an absurd claim. Humans do not value human life at all. Humans only value the lives of their relatives, friends and themselves. Sure, everyone says they care but they don't. Mankind has been in a near constant state of warfare it's entire existence and our whole society is set up so as to pit men against one another.

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I pointed out the fact that the only reason people doing anything is because they value life, such as their own life. So wars, started because someone either wants more power, or something of that nature. So they value their life and want more power, because in their mind it will make their life better. How is that not valuing life. It may be wrong but its of great value to them. So even if a person values 1 life only, it will still be the most valuable thing to them.

Im not trying to say that everyone in the world loves each other and wouldnt hurt each other.

[domotime2]

so...based on what you said, you are pro-choice.
how does my statement show anything about pro-choice? You have a choice whether or not you want to protect yourself during sex...and you have a choice, in many circumstances, whether or not to have sex. Nothing in my small blurb did I mention anything about it being okay to have a choice whether or not you can kill your baby. Infanticide, im not down with it.

[White]

Obviously you have done a lot of research, I just have a hard time believing the statement saying "there just isn't anything especially valuable about human life". Actually the entire worlds view is that human life is the most valuable thing to ever exist. If human life wasn't valuable then no one in the world, or in the history of the world would strive to do anything. The goal for every person who has ever lived is to improve life, either for themselves, or for others (inventions, government, education, ipods, anything). Even if there way of going about it is completely wrong. Everything money is spent on is to help, improve, or continue life according to person's opinion. I know, "war" isn't spent on continuing life, but no one would go to war if they two oppositions were not trying to improve their own well being.

So its hard for me see the validity of your statements if it goes against the one common thing between every human no matter what religion, race, gender, or any other difference you can think of, and that commonality is the value of human life.
The goal for every person who has ever lived was to improve the quality of their life. "Life" really is no more than a state of being, like "liquid" or "solid," and really isn't worth much of anything without certain things it enables, such as getting laid and arguing with people on the Internetz. If one could enjoy those things while being dead, "life" wouldn't mean shit. And if one really was dead, and could no longer enjoy those things, the interesting fact about that is the person wouldn't care. Because they're dead.

People are always going "human life is precious!" It's self-centered conceit and I'm convinced it's also a form of gluttony. The philosophy of Quality of Life is one thing, but it's another to proclaim the immunity of all human DNA, as if the genetic code itself is holy. Humans are not holy. We're just here. And we get to feel, and laugh, and love, and do all sorts of wonderful things here, and then we die, and then it happens over and over and over again.

If you were not able to do any of the aforementioned wonderful things, or any other wonderful things you can think of, would your life be worth living? Mine sure as hell wouldn't be.

[White]

By the way, abortion is NOT murder under ANY circumstances whatsoever because a fetus is not human, and murder is defined as the termination of human life. I'm not saying it isn't wrong; I'm saying it isn't murder.

[ryanh12]

The goal for every person who has ever lived was to improve the quality of their life. "Life" really is no more than a state of being, like "liquid" or "solid," and really isn't worth much of anything without certain things it enables, such as getting laid and arguing with people on the Internetz. If one could enjoy those things while being dead, "life" wouldn't mean shit. And if one really was dead, and could no longer enjoy those things, the interesting fact about that is the person wouldn't care. Because they're dead.

People are always going "human life is precious!" It's self-centered conceit and I'm convinced it's also a form of gluttony. The philosophy of Quality of Life is one thing, but it's another to proclaim the immunity of all human DNA, as if the genetic code itself is holy. Humans are not holy. We're just here. And we get to feel, and laugh, and love, and do all sorts of wonderful things here, and then we die, and then it happens over and over and over again.

If you were not able to do any of the aforementioned wonderful things, or any other wonderful things you can think of, would your life be worth living? Mine sure as hell wouldn't be.


So life is worth living you just said your life is worth living, then why should it be our decision take that from someone else potentially? Because if the fetus becomes a person...they get the opportunities to as well, which you say are worth living.

[White]

So life is worth living you just said your life is worth living, then why should it be our decision take that from someone else potentially? Because if the fetus becomes a person...they get the opportunities to as well, which you say are worth living.
My response to this is in my original post. Here's an excerpt:

A little bitty fetus has never done anything for anyone. It doesn't have any friends, and nobody really cares about it except the person it's growing in. So if SHE doesn't want it, holy shit! Get rid of it! You're personifying something that isn't a person yet. Yes, if you leave it alone it might become a person one day. But until it is, you're just being ridiculous trying to force people to bring more jackasses into this shithole of a world that's already overpopulated. You're an asshole!
Stopping it before it starts just isn't that big of a deal. At all. Somehow you're equating it to killing someone that already has all of that, even though you know it's not the same at all.

[White]

And you say "our" as if it's Mankind as a whole. No. It's that one person who the fetus is growing inside. If bringing that fetus to term means the mother might be berefed of the delight in her life so another being could potentially enjoy delight in theirs, well... You see where I'm going with this? Why should it be our decision to take that away from someone else?

[GuitarR0cker1]

Pro-Choice

[AbeLurkin]

how does my statement show anything about pro-choice? You have a choice whether or not you want to protect yourself during sex...and you have a choice, in many circumstances, whether or not to have sex. Nothing in my small blurb did I mention anything about it being okay to have a choice whether or not you can kill your baby. Infanticide, im not down with it.

well you said that if someone gets raped they have a choice to have an abortion.

[MClass131]

Fact: The heart begins to beat at 5 weeks.....98% of women find out they are pregnant at 6 weeks. Life begins with a single heartbeat

Fact: 1% of abortions are due to rape
6% of abortions are due to medical reasons
93% of abortions are due to social reasons

Fact: 77% of anti-abortion leaders are men whom 100% of them will never be pregnant

Fact: For two millennia in our Western culture, written into our constitutions, specifically protected by our laws, and deeply imprinted into the hearts of all men and women, there has existed the absolute value of honoring and protecting the right of each human to live. This has been an unalienable and unequivocal right. The only exception has been that of balancing a life for a life in certain situations or by due process of law.

Never, in modern times — except by a small group of physicians in Hitler’s Germany and by Stalin in Russia — has a price tag of economic or social use-fullness been placed on an individual human life as the price of its continued existence.
Never, in modern times — except by physicians in Hitler’s Germany — has a certain physical perfection been required as a condition necessary for the continuation of that life.
Never — since the law of paterfamilias in ancient Rome — has a major nation granted to a father or mother total dominion over the life or death of their child.
Never, in modern times, has the state granted to one citizen the absolute legal right to have another killed in order to solve their own personal, social or economic problem. And yet, if this is human life, the U.S. SupremeFact: Top 10 Reasons given for having an abotion

10. I have to have an abortion. There’s no other way.
9. I’m pregnant because of a rape.
8. It’s not really a baby. It’s just a "blob of tissue".
7. I don’t like what pregnancy will do to my body.
6. Getting pregnant was an accident. I just want to undo it.
5. My mother is pressuring me to have an abortion.
4. My boyfriend will break up with me if I don’t have an abortion.
3. Well, it is legal.
2. I can’t support myself, much less a baby. I want to finish school.
1. I can’t let my parents know – they’ll kill me!
Fact: Abortion can carry guilt and shame.

Fact: 94% of women who have had an abortion regret their decision

Fact: Laws and opinions are constantly changing (even the original woman who was "Roe" in the landmark Roe vs. Wade case that legalized abortion now speaks publicly against it). And some women are suing their abortionists for damage done to them from their "safe and legal" abortions. Don’t depend on the legal system to make your own moral choices for you!

Fact: Choosing abortion over adoption because you know you would naturally become attached to your baby throughout the pregnancy means that you recognize there will be pain at separation. That pain will lessen over time and be eased by knowing you made the unselfish choice to offer your baby a wonderful life. If you fear your baby won’t be brought up in a loving adoptive home, try to imagine what could be less loving than ending his or her life.

Fact: Abortion can result in problems with reproductive organs that can make it difficult to conceive or carry a child to term in the future. For pregnant women who have previously had abortions, they now have a 160% increased risk of tubal pregnancy and 200% increased risk of miscarriage. You are not doing you body any favors by subjecting it to an abortion.

Fact: Those in post-abortion support groups across the country are not there to mourn the loss of their "blobs of tissue". They are there to mourn the loss of their babies.

Fact: Conception from rape is extremely rare.

Fact: Abortion is painful. The cervix is closed and hard and not prepared to open. The instruments are sharp and the sucking or pulling action is violent in the womb.

Fact: In a paper put out by the Family Planning Associates Medical Group, a group of abortion clinics in Southern California, the following risks are described:

- "However, it is clear to us that even when the surgeon is highly skilled and experienced in the method of dilation and extraction (D & E abortion) that there is a risk of perforation of the uterus either by the instruments or by the fetal tissue itself."

What this means is that the instruments the doctor puts through your cervix and into your uterus can make a hole through your uterine wall. It also means that the crushed bones of your baby can cut , slash or puncture your uterus while being removed. Often times the abortionist is not aware that he has done this because he cannot see into the uterus while he works. If this should occur, you would bleed through the hole into your abdominal cavity or vagina. If you do not get into the hospital quickly you could die from loss of blood. The paper goes on to say that hospitalization is required if the uterus is punctured. Damage to the bowel and bladder, blood transfusions and even a hysterectomy (removal of the uterus) can result.

The greatest risk involved in an early abortion is when the doctor performs an "incomplete abortion". The paper explains it this way, "…the most common problem encountered in termination of early pregnancies is infection and retained tissue (incomplete abortion). " What this means is that parts of the baby are left behind in your uterus. As they rot they cause a severe infection that can cause permanent damage to your female organs. You could become sterile (unable to become pregnant) or miscarry your next baby.

Third trimester abortions are extremely dangerous. The D & X procedure (Partial Birth Abortion) has been denounced as dangerous to the mother by many doctors and medical professionals. Joseph DeCook, Fellow, Am. College of Ob/Gyn has stated:

- "There is no literature that testifies to the safety of partial birth (D & X) abortions. It’s a maverick procedure devised by maverick doctors who wish to deliver a dead fetus. Such abortions could lead to infection causing sterility. Drawing out the baby in breech position is a very dangerous procedure and could tear the uterus. Such a ruptured uterus could cause the mother to bleed to death in ten minutes."

Fact: In the past few years, medical research has shown that unborn babies can feel pain. Dr. H. M. Liley, the leading authority on the study of babies before birth, stated, "When doctors first began invading the sanctuary of the womb, they did not know that the unborn baby would react to pain in the same fashion as a child would. But they soon learned that he would."

If you still feel abortion is your only solution you need to know the answers to the following questions. Be sure to ask the clinic or hospital these questions. It’s your body, your life. You have the right to know.
1) Have other women sued your chosen abortion clinic because they have been injured by an abortion?
2) Can you be permanently damaged by abortion?
3) Were any of the risks outlined in this brochure mentioned to you when you asked the question above? If not, ask why.
4) Will you be asked to sign a paper releasing the doctor and clinic of all responsibility in case you suffer physical or emotional damage because of your abortion.
5) If you sign a release form and then have physical problems will the clinic or the doctor pay for medical costs to repair the damage?

[Machu505]

Life begins when you can survive outside of the womb. ;-)

[speakhandsforme]

I think, therefore I'm pro choice. But, to assign credit where it's due, I was surprised to see that this thread isn't full of ignorant rants from both sides.

I'll be less opposed (though still opposed) to secular impositions on a person's body when the already developed portion of humankind is in perfect condition, instead of wallowing in shit. But, while there are still millions in the gutter, there is no need to bring dead weight into the world, aimed towards failure at birth.

[Domenic182]

Love it love it love it.