Labor Unions.

[Skadrist]

It seems that with the talk of the auto company bailouts much of the publics ire has been directed towards the UAW, which I find a bit surprising. I would like to here the opinion you guys have on labor unions. I myself work a blue collar job on top of school and though I am staunchly pro-Union I have not joined since I am not a fan of the Teamsters.

[open mind]

unions aren't perfect but i'm generally pro union....why people are blaming unions for the auto crisis i don't know.....non union car plant workers only earn like 2-3 bucks less an hour then union workers so unions aren't the problem.

[x togepi x]

of course we blame the unions, it's another way for major corporations to get more power post-bail out.

it's a lot easier to scapegoat them, when in reality the failures of the auto industry come from tons of factors, which may or may not be solved by throwing money at them. but it's a lot easier to ask for money when it looks like a viable solution than it is to say that it won't work. i mean, try going to the bank and asking for a loan to start a business that you claim may not work and see what happens.

[saysmydoctor]

:wallbash:

[Machu505]

Bump to point out that the Blair Mountain Battlefield in West Virginia, the site of a bloody battle between unionizing coal miners and operator-paid law enforcement, was removed from the National Register of Historic Places and is now under threat of being strip mined (http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201007081028).

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I never had a union job so I couldn't advocate it, but I seem to be in favor of them. From reading comments on news websites in Connecticut, people here seem to paint unions as lazy, greedy, corrupt, and un-American private business killers. They certainly do not think highly of unionized public school teachers.

[<*)))><]

Unions basically destroyed Tire, Steel and Car production in the US.

[open mind]

Unions basically destroyed Tire, Steel and Car production in the US.

that's certainly one (slanted) way to look at it.

[<*)))><]

that's certainly one (slanted) way to look at it.
Unions are nice for the worker but they are get greatly overpaid compared to their nonunion rivals. UAW workers made almost double per hour when you factored in benefits, allowing for the nonunion to charge less for a similar product. So in the end it will most likely end for them jobless such as the unionized workers in the tire, steel and car industry.

[open mind]

Unions are nice for the worker but they are get greatly overpaid compared to their nonunion rivals. UAW workers made almost double per hour when you factored in benefits, allowing for the nonunion to charge less for a similar product. So in the end it will most likely end for them jobless such as the unionized workers in the tire, steel and car industry.

i'll take the position that nonunion workers are underpaid and that the loss of manufacturing jobs has occurred in industries with and without unions so something else was/is a large contributing factor.
isn't the uaw part of the auto industry?

[<*)))><]

i'll take the position that nonunion workers are underpaid and that the loss of manufacturing jobs has occurred in industries with and without unions so something else was/is a large contributing factor.
isn't the uaw part of the auto industry?
The free market should decides what a reasonable pay is anything else is under/over paid as far as I'm concerned. Also I think the larger contribution factor is cheaper labor in other parts of the world. If you can find someone who will work for less in our country and then someone will work for a fraction of the non unionized then we can conclude that they are overpaid. Also very few manufacturing is done by the uaw such as Toyota in Kentucky, Honda in Alabama and just about every other company.

[open mind]

The free market should decides what a reasonable pay is anything else is under/over paid as far as I'm concerned. Also I think the larger contribution factor is cheaper labor in other parts of the world. If you can find someone who will work for less in our country and then someone will work for a fraction of the non unionized then we can conclude that they are overpaid. Also very few manufacturing is done by the uaw such as Toyota in Kentucky, Honda in Alabama and just about every other company.

so unions and free markets are inherently at odds with each other? i was not aware.

if someone is willing to take less pay for my job i'm overpaid? by that logic anyone in manufacturing should be earning pennies an hour.

[<*)))><]

so unions and free markets are inherently at odds with each other? i was not aware.

if someone is willing to take less pay for my job i'm overpaid? by that logic anyone in manufacturing should be earning pennies an hour.
Basically most manufacturing doesn't take any real set of skills and most manufacturing job are going to countries were people are being paid pennies an hour.

[open mind]

Basically most manufacturing doesn't take any real set of skills and most manufacturing job are going to countries were people are being paid pennies an hour.

and you'd prefer it if americans were earning those pennies?

you've brought us to my point that unions aren't responsible for loss of manufacturing jobs as much as current global economic realities are.

[<*)))><]

and you'd prefer it if americans were earning those pennies?

you've brought us to my point that unions aren't responsible for loss of manufacturing jobs as much as current global economic realities are.
Well Americans don't do that anymore we are a service industry not production.

http://www.al.com/opinion/birminghamnews/editorials.ssf?/base/opinion/1223108145288410.xml&coll=2
A little old of a source but still relevant.

[open mind]

Well Americans don't do that anymore we are a service industry not production.

http://www.al.com/opinion/birminghamnews/editorials.ssf?/base/opinion/1223108145288410.xml&coll=2
A little old of a source but still relevant.
i'm aware, but you seem to blame that solely on unions.

does this show that unions are ineffective or merely that most of the auto plants in the south came with huge incentives and tax breaks for auto companies?
http://washingtonindependent.com/22236/cars

[<*)))><]

i'm aware, but you seem to blame that solely on unions.

does this show that unions are ineffective or merely that most of the auto plants in the south came with huge incentives and tax breaks for auto companies.
http://washingtonindependent.com/22236/cars
Well I see it that they have jobs because of the tax breaks, in the end it is more profitable for the town to have a factory then not. The workers go from earning $20,000 a year to $70,000 which is about double the national average. If the state didn't offer tax breaks the plant would never come to the state/town and a lot of money would never reach the workers.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5062797\\ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5062797)
Here is another slightly outdated source and it is pro union but it makes the point how it helps people earn more with the plant being there.

[open mind]

Well I see it that they have jobs because of the tax breaks, in the end it is more profitable for the town to have a factory then not. The workers go from earning $20,000 a year to $70,000 which is about double the national average. If the state didn't offer tax breaks the plant would never come to the state/town and a lot of money would never reach the workers.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5062797\\ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5062797)
Here is another slightly outdated source and it is pro union but it makes the point how it helps people earn more with the plant being there.

i'm not arguing against the plants or jobs, just pointing out that their existence is artificial so comparisons with detroit aren't totally fair.

[<*)))><]

i'm not arguing against the plants or jobs, just pointing out that their existence is artificial so comparisons with detroit aren't totally fair.
Sorry I don't really understand what you are saying.

[open mind]

Sorry I don't really understand what you are saying.

the long and short of it is that i think there were/are larger factors at work when it comes to losing manufacturing jobs then unions.

think i'm gonna take a short nap and then try to do something constructive with the rest of my day, but i'd be happy to continue this discussion later.

[<*)))><]

the long and short of it is that i think there were/are larger factors at work when it comes to losing manufacturing jobs then unions.

think i'm gonna take a short nap and then try to do something constructive with the rest of my day, but i'd be happy to continue this discussion later.
That nap sounds good but instead of doing something constructive with the rest of my day I will make kids cry over xbox.