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Cal Smith
05/24/05, 06:33 AM
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050524/ap_on_go_co/filibuster_fight)

Judicial nominee Priscilla Owen gets the vote she's been awaiting for more than four years, the most immediate beneficiary of a deal worked out by Senate moderates to avoid a debilitating fight over filibusters.

The Senate was voting to end debate on Owen, currently a Texas Supreme Court justice, clearing the way for her to gain a seat on the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, based in New Orleans. With the threat of a filibuster by Democrats removed, she was nearly certain then to get the simple majority vote needed to give her the seat that long has eluded her, perhaps as early as Tuesday.

The agreement, crafted over the past several weeks by seven Republicans and seven Democrats, also opened the way for yes-or-no votes on two other of President Bush's judicial picks who have been in nomination limbo for more than two years — William H. Pryor Jr. for the Atlanta-based 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and Janice Rogers Brown for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

The agreement, which applies to Supreme Court nominees, said future judicial nominations should "only be filibustered under extraordinary circumstances," with each Democratic senator holding the discretion to decide when those conditions had been met.

But of greater import, the deal on the rights of the minority party to filibuster judicial nominees avoids a showdown that could have shaken the traditions of the Senate, weakened the powers of the minority and threatened the comity the Senate needs to function.

And there were other political implications, as well, including the shape of the Supreme Court, the midterm election in 2006, Bush's legislative agenda and the next presidential race, especially the prospects for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee and potential GOP rival Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona.

Asked Tuesday how senators would determine what "extraordinary circumstances" might warrant a filibuster threat in the future, McCain indicated on ABC's "Good Morning America" that the bipartisan group of senators who worked out the compromise would retain sufficient leverage to make such a determination.

"We're not asking all 100 senators to make that determination," he said. "We have 14 of us who are together and I am confident we will act in a way that if the circumstances are extraordinary, everyone will agree to that."

Earlier, McCain, who led the compromise effort with Sen. Ben Nelson (news, bio, voting record), D-Neb., said, "We tried to avert a crisis in the United States Senate and pull the institution back from a precipice."

Frist, who had joined with party conservatives in pressing for an end to judicial filibusters, stressed that he was not a party to the agreement. He said he hoped it would end a "miserable chapter in the history of the Senate," but said that what he called the "constitutional option" was still on the table. He said he "will monitor this agreement closely."

Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who had threatened to bog down Senate business if Republicans took away the filibuster authority, was more receptive, saying the Senate could now get back to work on the needs of the nation. He said he was willing to work with Bush on his agenda, "but he should have a little more humility."

"In light of the spirit and continuing commitments made in this agreement," Republicans said they would oppose any attempt to make changes in the application of filibuster rules. But Sen. Mike DeWine (news, bio, voting record), R-Ohio, said the agreement was conditional on Democrats upholding their end of the deal.

The White House said the agreement was a positive development.

"Many of these nominees have waited for quite some time to have an up or down vote and now they are going to get one. That's progress," press secretary Scott McClellan said.

A battle over judicial nominations that began in Bush's first term had been headed toward a climactic conclusion Tuesday with Frist planning to employ what both sides came to call the "nuclear option" because of its potentially disruptive effects.

Had the Democrats used their filibuster powers again to stop Owen, Frist would have sought a ruling from the chair, approvable by a simple majority, that filibusters should not be allowed to obstruct judicial nominations. Vice President Dick Cheney, as president of the Senate, was prepared to take the chair Tuesday to break a tie vote.

Unlike the House, where the majority rules, the majority in the 100-seat Senate must at times gain 60 votes to proceed on legislation over the objection of the minority. Republicans, with 55 seats have had difficulty reaching that threshold against united Democratic opposition.

Frist and most other Republicans said judicial nominees deserved a straight up-or-down vote, and accused the Democrats of unprecedented abuse of their filibuster power in blocking 10 circuit court judge nominees in Bush's first term.

Democrats countered that Frist's action would fundamentally undermine minority rights. Equally important, they worried that it would give Bush and his Republican allies free rein to place anyone of their choosing on the Supreme Court if, as expected, there are vacancies in the near future.

Under the terms of the agreement, Democrats said they would allow final confirmation votes for Owen, Brown and Pryor, three nominees all assailed by Democrats for what they say has been their conservative activism. There is "no commitment to vote for or against" the filibuster against two other conservatives named to the appeals court, Henry Saad and William Myers.

Apart from the judicial nominees named in the agreement, Reid said Democrats would clear the way for votes on David McKeague, Richard Griffin and Susan Neilson, all named to the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals.

The 14 signers, while a small minority of the Senate, hold enough leverage to stop future filibusters or block any attempt to impose new procedures for judicial filibusters.

Dr. James C. Dobson, head of the Focus on the Family, one of the conservative groups that had made an end to judicial filibusters a top priority, said the agreement "represents a complete bailout and a betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats."

Love As Arson
05/24/05, 06:35 AM
This is not going to please the extremists.

Cal Smith
05/24/05, 06:40 AM
I still think it would have been better to watch the Republicans remove the filibuster, then once Democrats have a majority I would have liked to see if there feelings for the importance of the filibuster remained the same and they reinstalled it back for judicial nominees so that the Republican minority might be able to filibuster nominees.

richter915
05/24/05, 07:34 AM
I love how this is gaining so much attention even though there are much greater problems our Senate should be dealing with.

open mind
05/24/05, 12:01 PM
This is not going to please the extremists.
the conservative extremists didn't make out so bad.

I still think it would have been better to watch the Republicans remove the filibuster, then once Democrats have a majority I would have liked to see if there feelings for the importance of the filibuster remained the same and they reinstalled it back for judicial nominees so that the Republican minority might be able to filibuster nominees.
what goes around comes around kid, they wouldn't have given a fuck, and they would stick it to the republicans as much as possible, the idea was bad for both sides.

Love As Arson
05/24/05, 12:15 PM
the conservative extremists didn't make out so bad.


what goes around comes around kid, they wouldn't have given a fuck, and they would stick it to the republicans as much as possible, the idea was bad for both sides.

Conservative extremists wanted the filibuster eliminated completely.

Poopy
05/24/05, 12:48 PM
It sounds to me like a perfect political agreement was reached. The democrats give the republicans one vote so that the people think progress has been made and the media calms down, but there is no clear indication of what will happen in the future. Their agreement really doesnt address the root problem of the situation.

open mind
05/24/05, 12:49 PM
Conservative extremists wanted the filibuster eliminated completely.
they got the better end of the deal in the end.

Cal Smith
05/24/05, 04:42 PM
they got the better end of the deal in the end.

How so?

richter915
05/24/05, 04:48 PM
How so?
weren't the conservative judges who caused this whole dilemma eventually allowed to become supreme court judges...or am I completely off?

Cal Smith
05/24/05, 04:56 PM
weren't the conservative judges who caused this whole dilemma eventually allowed to become supreme court judges...or am I completely off?

no one's becoming a supreme court judge, as of yet. They were trying to be confirmed as federal judges, and not all of them will get confirmed

amazes me though how these ten were so "extreme" yet Democrats are willing to compromise on "extreme" judges and vote some of them in. :headshake

Love As Arson
05/24/05, 05:01 PM
Democrats are stalling with the hope they'll win some elections next year, and get the majority, so I see it as them winning.

Poopy
05/25/05, 12:22 PM
Would it be asking too much for the democrats and republicans to agree on a judge who only interprets the law, like he's supposed to? Everything nowadays seems to be this "i'm right and your wrong" attitude, when it comes to politics. We have a constitution that tells us how to run this country, somehow along the way its been trampled on.

open mind
05/25/05, 02:42 PM
How so?
they are the only side that really gets anything out of the deal.
i know it's truly amazing to see a party make a deal for the greater good of the country these days.

Cal Smith
05/25/05, 02:53 PM
they are the only side that really gets anything out of the deal.
i know it's truly amazing to see a party make a deal for the greater good of the country these days.

Dem.s are gonna be able to keep a couple of them off as well.

open mind
05/25/05, 03:17 PM
Dem.s are gonna be able to keep a couple of them off as well.
they should have been able to keep all of them off though.
the dems went with far more of bush's nominees then the republicans went with clinton's, they really had no good reason to bitch in the first place in my view.

Cal Smith
05/25/05, 05:31 PM
they should have been able to keep all of them off though.

And republicans should have been able to push all of them through as well. So I'm still not seeing how the Rep. got the best of this deal?

richter915
05/26/05, 09:43 AM
I think the fillibuster should stay the same because it's the most amazing word in the english language.

Paul Tao
05/26/05, 10:52 AM
There was absolutely no reason for the Democrats to concede anything in a deal. The Nuclear Option was ridiculous in the first place and if Republicans had actually tried to use it, they would have ended up screwing themselves over. All the Democrats had to do was let the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. I am unhappy with this deal. Although, it does comfort me to know that many Republicans are unhappy with this deal also.

Harry Reid is freaking amazing though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does with this deal.

Poopy
05/26/05, 03:52 PM
There was absolutely no reason for the Democrats to concede anything in a deal. The Nuclear Option was ridiculous in the first place and if Republicans had actually tried to use it, they would have ended up screwing themselves over. All the Democrats had to do was let the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. I am unhappy with this deal. Although, it does comfort me to know that many Republicans are unhappy with this deal also.

Harry Reid is freaking amazing though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does with this deal.

If all senators were like you, nothing would get done. At some point you have to end the partisan bickering and reach a compromise.

Cal Smith
05/26/05, 05:50 PM
There was absolutely no reason for the Democrats to concede anything in a deal. The Nuclear Option was ridiculous in the first place and if Republicans had actually tried to use it, they would have ended up screwing themselves over. All the Democrats had to do was let the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. I am unhappy with this deal. Although, it does comfort me to know that many Republicans are unhappy with this deal also.

Harry Reid is freaking amazing though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does with this deal.

Democrats would have lost without the deal. You might be right the nuclear option might have hurt the republicans, but we'll never know. What we do know though had they done the nuclear option they would have had all the judges confirmed.

Justin_stacy
05/27/05, 11:43 AM
Gallup Shock: 69 Percent Oppose Dem Filibusters

An overwhelming majority of Americans agree with Republicans who say President Bush's judicial nominees deserve an up-or-down vote, according to a Gallup survey released yesterday.

The bombshell survey found that 35 percent "want to see the filibuster rules changed so that those judicial nominees are subject to an up-or-down vote," Gallup said.

Thirty-four percent "want to see the filibuster rule preserved" but "would like to see the Senate have an up-or-down vote on those nominees."

Only 19 percent told Gallup that Democrats were right to filibuster judicial appointments, with 12 percent voicing no opinion.

Twenty-four hours after the bombshell poll's release, news that 69 percent of Americans want Democrats to stop filibustering Bush's judicial nominees has yet to be reported by a single major U.S. media outlet.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/5/25/115435.shtml



Looks like maybe the Democrats had more to lose with their extreme obstructionist actions.......although truth be told it looks like Republicans didn't have a whole lot more support for their "constitutional" option, but that their overall objective still had the majorities support......Thank you McCain, nothing like selling out ones party for presidential prospects…

My own opinion is that since this whole mess by the Democrats was about abortion, and nominees views of it unrestricted legality. I think that when the unfortunate day arrives when Democrats again capture the White House, Republican Senators should return the “favor” and filibuster anyone that holds, or has made comment showing support of, unrestricted abortion. As this is no less “extreme,” although it is much further out of the mainstream, then the view being called extreme of the Republican nominees.

Paul Tao
05/27/05, 11:49 AM
We all have our polls...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2004/10/26/AR2005032201677.html

But by a 2 to 1 ratio, the public rejected easing Senate rules in a way that would make it harder for Democratic senators to prevent final action on Bush's nominees.

Justin_stacy
05/27/05, 12:04 PM
Fair enough......although in reference to your "shoot them in the foot" analogy, Gallup has shown that the sore foot could have easily been on the leg of the democrats, in relation to the out come of this topic...