dealing with death [Archive] - AbsolutePunk.net

jimjam32

12/09/08, 09:43 PM

So, one of my best friends died on sunday. I knew this girl for less than a year.
she was actually my ex-girlfriend's best friend. when we broke up she didn't abandon me. she listened to me cry night after night.

i talked to her saturday night at 10. i was drunk off my ass. she was on a date. i made her laugh a lot. i told her "go have butt sex" and that was the last thing i said to her.

the last time i saw her in person, was at the fall out boy concert in chciago. i bought her ticket. she came up to me and said "i fucking love you jimmy haygood"

anyone who was at the concert, remember the paper bears that fell down? i'm leaving one in her casket.

she was a fucking ray of sunshine. and i don't know why im posting this, i just want everyone to know how beautiful and sweet this girl was. she hit a patch of ice saturday night. i almost lost my job on sunday because i walked out to go see her. she was in coma.
they told us "she can still hear you" and i thought "bullshit"

i cried. and told her how much i love her. held her hand and kissed her forehead.

she didn't move a muscle, but tears welled up in the corner of her eyes.

i left, and an hour later she died, with all of her friends and family around her -- they pulled the plug.

this was warped tour.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/whack34/taylorangel2.jpg

this was the last time i saw her in person.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/whack34/taylorangel.jpg

her friend took all the pictures of us at warped. and i don't have any others. she won't put them up on facebook for me or send them. so this is the best i can do.

again, not sure what this is supposed to accomplish except making me feel better.

kind words appreciated. this girl was like a little sister to me.

screamoutmyname

12/09/08, 09:48 PM

i'm so sorry to hear that, man... at least she's in a better place.

rest in peace.

jimjam32

12/09/08, 09:49 PM

i'm so sorry to hear that, man... at least she's in a better place.

rest in peace.
i still text her every day hoping she gets them.
i have a hard time with the whole "heaven" thing. but i want it to be true so bad for her sake. she really is an angel.

Heart-A-Tact

12/09/08, 09:49 PM

I'm sorry, man.

jimjam32

12/09/08, 09:53 PM

i just try and remember the good times, but when my girlfriend broke up with me, taylor became my crutch. i called her every time i was stressed. she almost always listened.

hah. i remember when we saw brand new in indy, i put my arms around her instead of my girlfriend, because she was so small. i regretted it for a while, because the girlfriend got seperated from us, and was basically alone at the concert, but now im glad i protected her

andrew4045

12/09/08, 09:54 PM

Thoughts and prayers

jimjam32

12/09/08, 09:55 PM

how can i cope with something like this?

i lost my girlfriend of almost two years, and this girl replaced the "friend" aspect of that.

and now i lost one of my best friends.

and have no one.

AP_Punk

12/09/08, 10:03 PM

sorry to hear about that, man. :pet:

one of my favorite Scrubs moments that I'd like to share:
GcsrnT7Tv1o

panix

12/09/08, 10:07 PM

i'm sorry. thoughts and prayers.

firecrackaaa!

12/09/08, 10:12 PM

I'm sorry. Which won't help at all, but I am.

jimjam32

12/09/08, 10:15 PM

thanks everyone for the kind words.

is it weird to keep texting her? there were so many things i need to share with her. she owes me a trip to taco bell.

jimjam32

12/09/08, 10:16 PM

well. viewing is tomorrow, and funeral on thursday. pray for me too. it will be hard seeing hundreds of people crying over her. and there are people who were even closer to her than me, and i worry about them, especially since I am hurting this much.

about3fitty

12/09/08, 10:34 PM

thats terrible dude. if something like this happened to me i dont know what i would do. i dont think its weird that you keep texting her. the only time i really had something close to this happen to me it took a while for it to sink in. like i still thought that they would just still be there because it was all i ever knew. the best thing i can tell you is to just let it out and dont hold anything in. you will feel better and just dont stop thinking about her. even if someone isnt around anymore they can still have a huge impact on your future because of the things they did for you in the past.

BJW7191

12/09/08, 10:53 PM

ive actually had a bad run of deaths the past 3 years

it will be 2 years dec13 since i lost someone who i wont call a friend, but i always talked to her at school and i knew she had a crush on me and i didnt have those feelings, but i kinda let her know in a polite way i was not interested, but still talked to her. she killed herself on her birthday after a very vicious verbal fight with her mother

in feb it will be 2 years since i lost my girlfriend at the time to a drunk driving accident. she was absolutely sober when a drunk driver blew a stoplight and tboned the hell out of the car. she was killed on impact. she also had two friends (i was friends with them too) one girl broke her leg so badly it had to be amputated. she had a basketball scholarship that eventually got revoked for obvious reasons. the third passenger ruptured her spleen and had that bag to pee in for 3 months after. she also broke her collarbone. this was the drivers 2nd drunk driving accident where someone got hurt... hes now away for atleast 25 years. he was 23 years old

last year, this kid who was my work out partner in baseball was killed in a car wreck when he took a curve too fast and flipped his truck twice. i never knew the kids name but as soon as i saw it in the paper/news i knew who he was.

on dec 3 2008 a friend of mine got in a drunk driving accident. it was his birthday and decided to drive home drunk and wrapped his car around a tree killing his passenger as well. named to the all state baseball team in highschool twice.

im sorry for your loss. i wont say i know what youre going through bc i dont know how youre feeling, but i will say i know how i felt and it was the worst feeling ever all 4 times. i wish you the best

one way that i got help was by listening to a song by moneen called the last song i will ever want to sing. here are the lyrics:

Think of one moment you can call the happiest moment of your life... it's gone
For me the thought that keeps playing over...over and over and over.
Is the day that I realized you were gone.

I can't believe this had to happen,
Please tell me why this had to happen to someone so strong.
I wish I could go back to see her, spend time with her.
But I can't...instead I'm left with sadness.

Sitting here watching you, sitting here watching me, sitting here watching you melt away.

For me the thought that keeps playing over...over and over and over and over again.

These thoughts are like poison to me.
Stay if you can.
Why can't I pretend that you're still here with us now, please stay with us now.
I can't stop these thoughts of you drifting away.

Cause I'm waiting, for something and if that something is to realize.

Cause I'm waiting, for something and if that something is too real (to realize)

Wait...smile do something.

I want to remember.
Think of one moment you can call the happiest moment of your life... it's gone
For me the thought that keeps playing over...over and over and over.
Is the day that I realized you were gone.

I can't believe this had to happen,
Please tell me why this had to happen to someone so strong.
I wish I could go back to see her, spend time with her.
But I can't...instead I'm left with sadness.

Sitting here watching you, sitting here watching me, sitting here watching you melt away.

For me the thought that keeps playing over...over and over and over and over again.

These thoughts are like poison to me.
Stay if you can.
Why can't I pretend that you're still here with us now, please stay with us now.
I can't stop these thoughts of you drifting away.

Cause I'm waiting, for something and if that something is to realize.

Cause I'm waiting, for something and if that something is too real (to realize)

Wait...smile do something.

I want to remember.

the song is actually really beautiful and s o emotional... its just an amazing song.. i recommend it

again, i wish you the best

spansen

12/09/08, 11:07 PM

:( i'm sorry.

i have a similar situation, minus the death part.. aka i still talk to my ex's best friend from time to time.

Burning Star IV

12/10/08, 01:39 AM

I'm sorry for your loss. I know what it's like to lose your best friend.

awakeohsleeper

12/10/08, 03:31 AM

I'm sorry. In these situations words don't seem enough, but faceless people across the internet world are here for you and care for you. There is hope. I hope you're okay.

punklet2101

12/10/08, 04:46 AM

I'm so, so sorry :-( hope you're okay. just reading this made me cry, seemed like an awesome girl and you were a great friend. it sucks how this happens. as for dealing with death i just don't know where to begin, death has messed up my head so much it feels irreversible. the only thought i hold onto is a verse in psalms that states that God calls people home young to save them from evils to come.

MarsEatWorld

12/10/08, 05:22 AM

thanks everyone for the kind words.

is it weird to keep texting her? there were so many things i need to share with her. she owes me a trip to taco bell.
That isn't weird at all...
I still myspace message my friend that passed away last year and I feel like she's listening...even though she doesn't respond...
one time I got a text from her phone and I started crying.. It was her little brother but he just wrote "Emmy wants me to tell you she misses you"

Anne.Frank

12/10/08, 05:35 AM

I have never lost a friend like this so I can't tell you I know how you feel, but I understand. And I will light a candle for you and your friend on christmas eve :)

bung

12/10/08, 06:17 AM

MarsEatWorld

12/10/08, 06:34 AM

Actually, that is very weird. Quite strange, indeed. Creepy even.
Messaging her or the text message?

morgan_w

12/10/08, 06:36 AM

wow, i'm so sorry for you loss <3

Mediocrity

12/10/08, 06:46 AM

bung

12/10/08, 07:31 AM

Messaging her or the text message?

The act of sending text messages or IMs to a dead person..

jimjam32

12/10/08, 07:35 AM

That isn't weird at all...
I still myspace message my friend that passed away last year and I feel like she's listening...even though she doesn't respond...
one time I got a text from her phone and I started crying.. It was her little brother but he just wrote "Emmy wants me to tell you she misses you"
well. her phone still receives them. maybe it's her parents, i don't know. they never answer, a friend told me to talk to her parents and tell them stories about her. hopefully my texts of "i love you and miss you" and things like that help them realize how loved their daughter was.

i have to be strong today. a good buddy of mine was dating her. he was the last one to see her. he offered to drive her home and have her get her car the next day but she said no. he keeps blaming himself. it's terrible. he said he cant go to the funeral tomorrow, so i will be going to that alone. all of taylors friends are girls who were friends with my ex, and they all hate me. i told them all i care about them and im here for them and it pissed them off. really childish, i know. its not the time for people to be holding grudges against each other.

i just hope my ex will give me a hug or something. i still need that from her.

jimjam32

12/10/08, 07:41 AM

MarsEatWorld

12/10/08, 07:44 AM

The act of sending text messages or IMs to a dead person..
It is on her myspace... no one will read it.
It helps relieve pain. She was one of my best friends.

MarsEatWorld

12/10/08, 07:46 AM

well. her phone still receives them. maybe it's her parents, i don't know. they never answer, a friend told me to talk to her parents and tell them stories about her. hopefully my texts of "i love you and miss you" and things like that help them realize how loved their daughter was.

i have to be strong today. a good buddy of mine was dating her. he was the last one to see her. he offered to drive her home and have her get her car the next day but she said no. he keeps blaming himself. it's terrible. he said he cant go to the funeral tomorrow, so i will be going to that alone. all of taylors friends are girls who were friends with my ex, and they all hate me. i told them all i care about them and im here for them and it pissed them off. really childish, i know. its not the time for people to be holding grudges against each other.

i just hope my ex will give me a hug or something. i still need that from her.
Yeah, that's super childish... wow

jimjam32

12/10/08, 07:47 AM

It is on her myspace... no one will read it.
It helps relieve pain. She was one of my best friends.
a lot of people still leave taylor myspace messages telling her how much they love her.

jimjam32

12/10/08, 07:48 AM

Yeah, that's super childish... wow
when we were at the hospital, taylor was laying there in the bed, i had to ASK my ex for a hug, and it was still one of those things where she put her arms around me and didnt really hug.

MarsEatWorld

12/10/08, 08:12 AM

a lot of people still leave taylor myspace messages telling her how much they love her.
I think that is completely normal..Idk what Tom was saying. ha

when we were at the hospital, taylor was laying there in the bed, i had to ASK my ex for a hug, and it was still one of those things where she put her arms around me and didnt really hug.
Yeah... I'm sorry..

deadjean

12/10/08, 08:26 AM

I know you said that you don't believe in God, but I go this bible verse tatooed on my back after a friend of mine died, and it brings me peace to know that God has promised us so much in heaven...

He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

-Revelation 21:4

voncorn

12/10/08, 08:54 AM

she was a fucking ray of sunshine. and i don't know why im posting this, i just want everyone to know how beautiful and sweet this girl was. she hit a patch of ice saturday night. i almost lost my job on sunday because i walked out to go see her. she was in coma.
they told us "she can still hear you" and i thought "bullshit"

i cried. and told her how much i love her. held her hand and kissed her forehead.

she didn't move a muscle, but tears welled up in the corner of her eyes.

i left, and an hour later she died, with all of her friends and family around her -- they pulled the plug.

Reading that made me come close to crying. That's so sad, yet so beautiful at the same time. I'm grieving with you, and I know when a death of a close friend occurs, you can't go a single day without thinking about them.

Posthardcore

12/10/08, 09:11 AM

My mom passed away a little more then a year ago. I still don't know how to deal with it completely. Some days are better then others but then some are like it was just today that it happened. I really don't know how people get through it like they do, but i wish i could be one of them.
I have never talked about that day to anyone. The only thing that i have ever said was that she passed.

I will say that Music has saved my life so many times from the numerous thoughts of suicide, even recently.

bung

12/10/08, 09:45 AM

He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

Hmm.. no mourning or crying or pain? Sounds like there is a death--the death of human nature and a systematic embrace of the Eloi.

the only thought i hold onto is a verse in psalms that states that God calls people home young to save them from evils to come.

Lol. God saving people from the evils that He Himself created. So tragically absurd, don't you think?

banditandrew

12/10/08, 09:50 AM

death is a hard thing man....it sucks and it is unfair, im sorry man,...truly am

jimjam32

12/10/08, 10:12 AM

boss sent me home from work early today. the viewing is at 4. they thuoght i needed time. i wish i was still working. takes my mind off it when im busy.

jimjam32

12/10/08, 10:18 AM

thespearkid

12/10/08, 10:22 AM

That's really lame man. Sorry.

blindrider529

12/10/08, 10:24 AM

Hmm.. no mourning or crying or pain? Sounds like there is a death--the death of human nature and a systematic embrace of the Eloi.

Lol. God saving people from the evils that He Himself created. So tragically absurd, don't you think?
There are TONS of threads to troll in. Why do you have to pick this one?

sjb2k1

12/10/08, 10:26 AM

i am sorry. that is so terrible. i wish there was some formula for coping with tragedy, anything to take the pain out of it. the thing that has always helped me in such tough times is writing things down, so the texting thing makes a lot of sense to me. hang in there.

deadjean

12/10/08, 11:13 AM

Hmm.. no mourning or crying or pain? Sounds like there is a death--the death of human nature and a systematic embrace of the Eloi.

Lol. God saving people from the evils that He Himself created. So tragically absurd, don't you think?

Dude, I don't care if you disagree with me or think that my belief system is absurd. That is for you to decide, but is this thread really the place to do this??? Have some respect.

bung

12/10/08, 12:15 PM

There are TONS of threads to troll in. Why do you have to pick this one?

That wasn't a troll. I was merely implying that if you're going to try to use some fucking aphorism as solace in the face of death, you might want to pick one that actually makes some sense.

also, it's the internet. there is no morality on the internet.

DaveZeroZero

12/10/08, 12:20 PM

I've always found that the best way to deal with death is to kill myself.

blindrider529

12/10/08, 02:26 PM

I would like to recommend listening to View from Heaven by Yellowcard. I've never used that song to get over the death of someone, but it definately is about that and is a very positive response to loss.
That wasn't a troll. I was merely implying that if you're going to try to use some fucking aphorism as solace in the face of death, you might want to pick one that actually makes some sense.

also, it's the internet. there is no morality on the internet.
Going into a serious thread where someone is dealing with the sensitive issue of the death of a friend just to make negative comments toward people are posting with good intentions is being a troll in my book. Worse than being a troll, it's uncaring and incredibly immature.

Morals don't suddenly become non-existent when you get on the internet. The only people who feel that way are people who have their "internet persona" and their "real person."

This kind of attitude of "I don't care what people think! Look at me I can go against the grain and be a jerk on the internet and suspend morality because I have a real life and an internet life!" is similar to the kind of crap that gets Jeffree Star famous. You are Jeffree Star.

TimT

12/10/08, 04:52 PM

Going into a serious thread where someone is dealing with the sensitive issue of the death of a friend just to make negative comments toward people are posting with good intentions is being a troll in my book. Worse than being a troll, it's uncaring and incredibly immature.

Morals don't suddenly become non-existent when you get on the internet. The only people who feel that way are people who have their "internet persona" and their "real person."

This kind of attitude of "I don't care what people think! Look at me I can go against the grain and be a jerk on the internet and suspend morality because I have a real life and an internet life!" is similar to the kind of crap that gets Jeffree Star famous. You are Jeffree Star.

Agreed.

Very sorry for your loss, mate.

tomakebelieve

12/10/08, 05:25 PM

Dealing with death is just.. So hard. It sucks the life out of you. I went into a huge slump (despite pretending I wasn't) when my dad died last year. I would just cry at random times because something would remind me of my dad, or something. The time I lost it the most is when I found some of his old aircheck tapes from when he was in radio. It hurt so fucking much.
I can tell you though that it helps to talk, write, or just admit how much it's affecting you. When you pretend it's fine, that's when it hurts the most.

Heart-A-Tact

12/10/08, 05:27 PM

just.Starla.

12/10/08, 05:38 PM

Wow, I am so sorry.

The exact same thing happened to me last year. This guy who I had know since like 9th grade passed away from a car crash. We had only recently become friends, but I could not stop crying once I recieved the news that Monday morning.

tomakebelieve

12/10/08, 05:47 PM

I did the same thing when my dad passed. I'll agree wholeheartedly that it's not good for you.

I didn't know you had lost your father. Fucking sucks. =/

jimjam32

12/10/08, 09:09 PM

the viewing was hard. her mom (who i never really met) saw me crying and instantly knew i was close to her. she made me hug her.
i kissed her forehead. was so fucking cold.

i had to get out. i left the funeral home and walked by my ex. she just let me cry and left me outside by myself.
i went back inside and we accidentally made eye contact. i asked her for a hug and she gave me a real fucking hug. it meant a lot.

i left with my friend who had been "seeing" her.

he has been playing a cd she made for him in his car non stop. had all of her favorite songs.
3 tracks pretty much kept repeating.
me vs maradonna vs elvis - brand new.
talkin shit about a pretty sunset - modest mouse
and "high and dry" by radiohead.

high and dry made both of us lose it. he was driving, but thankfully we were ok.

i've never really been into radiohead.if anyone hasn't heard high and dry. here it is:

NCPDiEz-GcE

kaycey

12/10/08, 11:33 PM

i'm so sorry, i know how hard this must be for you.

bung

12/10/08, 11:57 PM

Oh wow. So much stupidity to address.

Going into a serious thread where someone is dealing with the sensitive issue of the death of a friend just to make negative comments toward people are posting with good intentions is being a troll in my book. Worse than being a troll, it's uncaring and incredibly immature.

The only people that are immature are the ones who believe they can ease the pain of losing a loved one by reciting some old saying from a book. If they respected and understood human emotion, they would realize that their actions are only serving to increase the pain of death, for when a person realizes that those sayings really don't make them feel any better, they ultimately feel as if they're defective in feeling such a great amount of pain, when these aphorisms are essentially telling them, "Hey, look at it this way! Death isn't really that bad!" Fuck that shit. Losing someone you love is fucking terrible, and even implying that it isn't undermines the very core of their pain.

Morals don't suddenly become non-existent when you get on the internet. The only people who feel that way are people who have their "internet persona" and their "real person."

If people (and the vast majority of people, at that) did not have an internet persona and real life persona, the internet would be a very different place. Are you so dense you cannot see that?

This kind of attitude of "I don't care what people think! Look at me I can go against the grain and be a jerk on the internet and suspend morality because I have a real life and an internet life!" is similar to the kind of crap that gets Jeffree Star famous. You are Jeffree Star.

The kind of attitude of not caring what people think is, as I see it, the only attitude worth having, or at least the one that people should strive to achieve. The fact that you think my posts are an intentional way of drawing attention to myself, and not merely myself voicing my own opinions, just reinforces the fact that you are, without a doubt, rather incompetent.

kaycey

12/11/08, 12:01 AM

haha.

bung

12/11/08, 12:05 AM

haha.

This better be laughter with me and not at me, or else ... well, nothing will probably happen, but regardless ... or else!

blindrider529

12/11/08, 10:57 AM

Oh wow. So much stupidity to address..
Nice. It's funny how the internet brings out the arrogant middle schooler in some of us.

The only people that are immature are the ones who believe they can ease the pain of losing a loved one by reciting some old saying from a book.
You are being immature. A mature adult recognizes things that he or she sees as naive or delusional all the time, but doesn't feel the need to rag on those supposed naive people when they are trying to give someone who is having a hard time some positive support. That is schoolyard bully mentality.

If they respected and understood human emotion, they would realize that their actions are only serving to increase the pain of death, for when a person realizes that those sayings really don't make them feel any better, they ultimately feel as if they're defective in feeling such a great amount of pain, ...
Wow. Really. You really think everyone is trying to pretend that it's no big deal...like eh, stuff happens? People cite religious faith or heaven or other spiritual things all the time as ways that they got through a death. It's very, VERY commonplace. It has been a "tool" for getting over death all throughout human history. You might want to get used to it.

If people (and the vast majority of people, at that) did not have an internet persona and real life persona, the internet would be a very different place. Are you so dense you cannot see that?
Of course I can see that. It's disgusting. It's pathetic. It's immature. I hope you don't think you are in good company. Why in the world would you want to claim that as your crowd and use the excuse that everyone does it? Lame.

The kind of attitude of not caring what people think is, as I see it, the only attitude worth having, or at least the one that people should strive to achieve.
In one sense, I agree. I don't think it's the only attitude worth having, but it can be very healthy and good to not care if others look down on you. At the same time I think you need to understand that others can see things about you that you can't see on your own, and it's good to be open to that. It is one thing to learn that you can have your own opinions and not care what others think, it's another to know what it means to be mature and civil in regards to how and where you express them. That is the immaturity that I am seeing from you.

ps. lol at you having the same birthday as Jeffree Star :-d
It's actually the same as my mom AND my dog. No kidding. 11/15

DaveZeroZero

12/11/08, 10:59 AM

all aboard the failquote!

bung

12/11/08, 12:08 PM

Nice. It's funny how the internet brings out the arrogant middle schooler in some of us.

You are being immature. A mature adult recognizes things that he or she sees as naive or delusional all the time, but doesn't feel the need to rag on those supposed naive people when they are trying to give someone who is having a hard time some positive support. That is schoolyard bully mentality.

Wow. Really. You really think everyone is trying to pretend that it's no big deal...like eh, stuff happens? People cite religious faith or heaven or other spiritual things all the time as ways that they got through a death. It's very, VERY commonplace. It has been a "tool" for getting over death all throughout human history. You might want to get used to it.

Of course I can see that. It's disgusting. It's pathetic. It's immature. I hope you don't think you are in good company. Why in the world would you want to claim that as your crowd and use the excuse that everyone does it? Lame.

In one sense, I agree. I don't think it's the only attitude worth having, but it can be very healthy and good to not care if others look down on you. At the same time I think you need to understand that others can see things about you that you can't see on your own, and it's good to be open to that. It is one thing to learn that you can have your own opinions and not care what others think, it's another to know what it means to be mature and civil in regards to how and where you express them. That is the immaturity that I am seeing from you.

ps. lol at you having the same birthday as Jeffree Star :-d
It's actually the same as my mom AND my dog. No kidding. 11/15

There's too much fail here to address, so I'll just point out the obvious ones. As for arrogance, no. It's complete confidence that your idea of providing solace to those experiencing loss does not work.

1.) You say I used the mentality that "everyone does it" as my reasoning for why people act differently on the internet. If that was implied, that was my error. It's because the internet provides anonymity and avoids face to face conversations, so people cannot help but act differently, for they know with certainty any repercussions will be entirely less severe than in real life. I doubt it has much to do with a bandwagon mentality. In fact, on some level, the internet provides a far better tool for discussion than real life conversation ever will, because people have no need to sugar coat responses or fear saying something that could result in a violent outburst from the other person. Moreover, you go on to use the same reasoning you belittle me for apparently using in why people use aphorisms as solace: because they've been used for centuries, so why not follow the crowd, get used to it, and use them as well? They don't work! They never have worked. And they never will work. There is a large area of psychology studying death and dying, and almost unanimously psychologists have come to this same conclusion. Most notably, aphorisms attempt to generalize the experience of grief--as each person is unique, they all have their unique ways of dealing with grief, and to attempt to provide solace with a generalization severely undermines the pain they're experiencing.

2.) If we do not "rag" on those who use naive or delusional tactics (most specifically in the very situations they use them, for it provides perfect context), those tactics will never come to an end. They are giving support in an incorrect way. They are hurting more than helping. They're the bullies, and they don't even know it.

3.) Disgusting, pathetic, and immature? Really? For merely acting differently on the internet? Let's use some more words that completely overstate the situation.

Hmm.. looks as though I've covered most of the bases, actually.

DaveZeroZero

12/11/08, 12:23 PM

tl;dr

blindrider529

12/11/08, 01:19 PM

You are focusing on an entirely different argument than me. A number of the things you are saying I agree with. A simple way to put my only real argument in this discussion is that you have been rude. It's pretty simple. I don't care to discuss coping mechanisms. I wasn't planning to argue with you on that.
There's too much fail here to address, so I'll just point out the obvious ones. As for arrogance, no. It's complete confidence that your idea of providing solace to those experiencing loss does not work.
No offense...but you REALLY don't get it. I'm not advocating ANY particular method for working through the loss of death. I'm talking about you being rude. I'm talking about the way in which you decided to let your opinion be known (in a place I found to be inappropriate). You are jumping on to an entirely different debate here. You are spending a lot of time trying to debunk the religious ideas of coping or whatever, and I could not care less. I didn't take a position on that. It's either a misunderstanding or a straw man.

1.) You say I used the mentality that "everyone does it" as my reasoning for why people act differently on the internet. If that was implied, that was my error. It's because the internet provides anonymity and avoids face to face conversations, so people cannot help but act differently, for they know with certainty any repercussions will be entirely less severe than in real life. I doubt it has much to do with a bandwagon mentality. In fact, on some level, the internet provides a far better tool for discussion than real life conversation ever will, because people have no need to sugar coat responses or fear saying something that could result in a violent outburst from the other person.
If I didn't make myself clear, I'm really referring to people who use their internet persona in a rude or inappropriate way. I took it that you use the fact that a lot of people are jerkoffs on the internet as an excuse or rationalization to be rude.

Moreover, you go on to use the same reasoning you belittle me for apparently using in why people use aphorisms as solace: because they've been used for centuries, so why not follow the crowd, get used to it, and use them as well? They don't work! They never have worked. And they never will work. There is a large area of psychology studying death and dying, and almost unanimously psychologists have come to this same conclusion. Most notably, aphorisms attempt to generalize the experience of grief--as each person is unique, they all have their unique ways of dealing with grief, and to attempt to provide solace with a generalization severely undermines the pain they're experiencing.
Again, I am not defending any particular aphorism or any means of coping. WRONG DEBATE. I'm not hear to debate the topic of psychology in relation to coping with death. I am only arguing that you have been inappropriate and rude by coming into this thread to be critical of people who are at least trying to say something helpful and provide some sort of positive support. You didn't come into the thread to give any advice (and I'm sure you have plenty). You just came in to challenge others. It just seemed pretty rude to me.

By the way...The reason I pointed out that it has been going on throughout human history and that you should get used to it is because it has been around and isn't going to go anywhere. I wasn't defending it. I'm basically saying have fun with ridding the world of this!

2.) If we do not "rag" on those who use naive or delusional tactics (most specifically in the very situations they use them, for it provides perfect context), those tactics will never come to an end. They are giving support in an incorrect way. They are hurting more than helping. They're the bullies, and they don't even know it.
This is easily the most rational thing that you have had to say. I honestly do appreciate your intention, but it doesn't change that you are being rude, inappropriate, and negative instead of standing up with a positive idea for coping. I DO think that there are better ways to rid the world of this thinking. Your best shot is continuing to focus on school and becoming a voice in psychology.

3.) Disgusting, pathetic, and immature? Really? For merely acting differently on the internet? Let's use some more words that completely overstate the situation.
I was referring to people who use the internet as an opportunity to put other people down in order to build themselves up. It is disgusting, pathetic, and immature to behave in such a way. I'm not saying that you are doing that right now, but you seem to approve of that type of behavior. I'm talking much broader than just this little discussion we are having.

oi. I care about this less than it appears.

DaveZeroZero

12/11/08, 01:21 PM

Stop writing essays, everyone.

.invisible ink.

12/11/08, 02:02 PM

Hmm.. looks as though I've covered most of the bases, actually.

You forgot to cover the best one - YOU ARE JEFFREE STAR!

hahahaha. i laughed my ass off when i read that.

so, how does it feel to be an equally beloved yet despised transvestite internet superstar? I bet it's what you've always dreamed of becoming. Congratulations, you've reached the pinnacle of success and win in your life. You can die a happy man now.

Kgod

12/11/08, 02:04 PM

Thats awful man. Im really sorry to hear that, but I think she will end up in a better place.

Heart-A-Tact

12/11/08, 02:04 PM

This thread was posted in PL, so it became exactly what I thought it would.

DaveZeroZero

12/11/08, 02:05 PM

This thread was posted in PL, so it became exactly what I thought it would.
Stop being so anal.

MarsEatWorld

12/11/08, 02:11 PM

This thread was posted in PL, so it became exactly what I thought it would.
Yeah, this is terrible.

.invisible ink.

12/11/08, 02:13 PM

oops, i'm sorry for contributing to the threadjacking.

i'm extremely sorry about your friend, it's awful. :(

jimjam32

12/11/08, 02:48 PM

i'm getting a bit better. her funeral was fucking hard though. my ex gave me a hug and we talked for a few minutes just holding each other. it was a big deal to me. without my ex i would have never known taylor. but life moves on i guess. i just need to be strong for everyone else now.

KidRobot

12/11/08, 02:49 PM

Thats really sad man. Try to keep your head up, it's probably what your friend would have wanted.

sandra92

12/11/08, 03:01 PM

): I'm sorry ..
I hope you can deal with it well .. be strong (:
RIP .

bung

12/11/08, 04:07 PM

You are focusing on an entirely different argument than me. A number of the things you are saying I agree with. A simple way to put my only real argument in this discussion is that you have been rude. It's pretty simple. I don't care to discuss coping mechanisms. I wasn't planning to argue with you on that.

No offense...but you REALLY don't get it. I'm not advocating ANY particular method for working through the loss of death. I'm talking about you being rude. I'm talking about the way in which you decided to let your opinion be known (in a place I found to be inappropriate). You are jumping on to an entirely different debate here. You are spending a lot of time trying to debunk the religious ideas of coping or whatever, and I could not care less. I didn't take a position on that. It's either a misunderstanding or a straw man.

If I didn't make myself clear, I'm really referring to people who use their internet persona in a rude or inappropriate way. I took it that you use the fact that a lot of people are jerkoffs on the internet as an excuse or rationalization to be rude.

Again, I am not defending any particular aphorism or any means of coping. WRONG DEBATE. I'm not hear to debate the topic of psychology in relation to coping with death. I am only arguing that you have been inappropriate and rude by coming into this thread to be critical of people who are at least trying to say something helpful and provide some sort of positive support. You didn't come into the thread to give any advice (and I'm sure you have plenty). You just came in to challenge others. It just seemed pretty rude to me.

By the way...The reason I pointed out that it has been going on throughout human history and that you should get used to it is because it has been around and isn't going to go anywhere. I wasn't defending it. I'm basically saying have fun with ridding the world of this!

This is easily the most rational thing that you have had to say. I honestly do appreciate your intention, but it doesn't change that you are being rude, inappropriate, and negative instead of standing up with a positive idea for coping. I DO think that there are better ways to rid the world of this thinking. Your best shot is continuing to focus on school and becoming a voice in psychology.

I was referring to people who use the internet as an opportunity to put other people down in order to build themselves up. It is disgusting, pathetic, and immature to behave in such a way. I'm not saying that you are doing that right now, but you seem to approve of that type of behavior. I'm talking much broader than just this little discussion we are having.

oi. I care about this less than it appears.

Haha, these posts are getting way too long for my liking. If someone else posted 500 words in one post, there's no way in hell I'd read it.

No offense, but you don't get. I thought you would infer why I had to explain aphorisms in relation to the psychology of death and dying, but you didn't.

I find it particularly easy to be rude to those who are causing more unnecessary suffering for a person. As for attempting to debunk religious coping mechanisms, that is not what I'm doing. I'm debunking all use of aphorisms as coping mechanisms in an effort to show that, on some level, my rudeness was justified as a means to reduce pain--many people need to hear it bluntly or they won't hear it at all. It's quite relevant to the discussion. Of course I could have chosen to present it in a less rude way, but that is very hard for me to do when I see people needlessly spouting tragically bad advice.

And I did not, as you say, come into this thread with the purpose of being critical. However, when I saw that people were supplying false information, or delivering it in a way that ultimately hurts, not helps, I'm certainly not going to keep my mouth shut when an opportunity to inform people of the error of their ways arises, even on a delicate subject such as this. That fact that people were providing condolences with good intentions is irrelevant--it remains that their good intentions are entirely not good. Then, to say that where I chose to voice my opinion (in this thread) is inappropriate undermines the very idea of message boards. If someone makes a thread because they want to receive condolences from others, they better expect discussion of the topic, both the positive and negative aspects, and not merely four pages of "I'm-sorrys and I-know-how-you-feels"

Also, you say you are not defending the use of aphorisms, but if I didn't say a thing I presume you would still think that they're an acceptable form of solace. Then, you imply that it's basically futile to prevent people from using them, which is the equivalent to saying people shouldn't try to improve the world because it's difficult. And obviously there's better ways to eliminate this kind of thinking, but I'm not going to fucking wait till I have a master's in psychology to do so.

Furthermore, I never once put anyone down as far as their own character goes. I was putting their ideas and statements down because they increase pain, and I see that as entirely appropriate, entirely justified, and entirely a reason to be negative. As for people that purposely belittle people to make themselves feel bigger, I do not support that. I do, although, support bluntness and speaking one's mind without having to wrap their words in a nice little package in order to be digested. In fact, I would presume most people don't say rude things because they want to feel bigger than someone else, but because they believe what that person said is just plain fucking stupid. And, if they feel bigger because of that, it's most likely only a secondary effect.

It was essential to explain the relationship of psychology to grief, because, if that fact wasn't made known, then an explanation for my rudeness would be missing. I may have been rude and blunt, but it is far better to be negative and rude in one given discussion and, ultimately, if the message spreads far enough, possibly reduce pain in times of grief, than it is to say something "positive"(which, of course, are often not actually positive at all) and continue to perpetuate more pain and a fallacious coping mechanism

god dammit, this argument is totally not worth writing 500 words in one single post.

blindrider529

12/11/08, 08:16 PM

god dammit, this argument is totally not worth writing 500 words in one single post.
haha the last sentence of both our last posts are pretty much the same. I actually understand where you are coming from a lot better than you might assume. We'll just have to agree to disagree about the way in which you want to promote what you believe. I think that your points would be taken more seriously and in a more open manner if you expressed yourself in a more compassionate, as opposed to blunt, way. The arena in which you want to open the discussion may very well be a good place, but it's a sensitive place. The way you went about making your point sounded more like disrespect or insensitivity than anything else. No offense to you. I'm just giving you an outside perspective.

This is simply constructive criticism. You'de be amazed at how much more willing people will listen to and be interested in your ideas when you approach them in the right way. You said you weren't trying to promote yourself (like Jeffree Star haha), but your ideas, so these are just some thoughts on promoting ideas.

jimjam32

12/11/08, 09:32 PM

im ok with what this thread has become. honestly, you guys' arguing helped me get different points of view on everything. and took my mind off her a little bit, so thank you. everyone.

Heart-A-Tact

12/11/08, 10:29 PM

im ok with what this thread has become. honestly, you guys' arguing helped me get different points of view on everything. and took my mind off her a little bit, so thank you. everyone.

At least something good came from it.

Nathan Lint

12/12/08, 03:58 AM

kaycey

12/12/08, 04:05 AM

really sucks, i'm sorry for your loss.

MarsEatWorld

12/12/08, 06:13 AM

DaveZeroZero

12/12/08, 07:11 AM

They say that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

That may be okay for you, but your friend got nothing out of it.

jimjam32

12/12/08, 07:16 AM

They say that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

That may be okay for you, but your friend got nothing out of it.
you're not even close to being funny.

DaveZeroZero

12/12/08, 07:24 AM

you're not even close to being funny.
That's because no dead babies were involved.

jimjam32

12/12/08, 07:45 AM

I know how it is.

This year, I lost my mom and two of my friends. It's something you really never get used to.

If it does anything, though, it builds character and should bring you closer to the ones you love/love you.
im sorry about your loss. and you're right, it has brought me a lot closer to the ones i love/who love me. it's the only good thing that has come out of this.

MarsEatWorld

12/12/08, 08:27 AM

That's because no dead babies were involved.
harsh words, Dave.

SonEric84

12/12/08, 11:10 AM

A little late on this thread, but it sounds like she was a very good friend. I'm very sorry for your loss.

Nathan Lint

12/12/08, 12:44 PM

I love your avatar!
And I'm sorry about your loss.
haha check my signature.

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 12:59 PM

bung

12/12/08, 01:30 PM

They say that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

That may be okay for you, but your friend got nothing out of it.

Just so you know, it was Nietzsche (omg, I actually spelled that name right on the first try according to my trusty Firefox) who said that. :-)

bung

12/12/08, 01:32 PM

I know how it is.

This year, I lost my mom and two of my friends. It's something you really never get used to.

If it does anything, though, it builds character and should bring you closer to the ones you love/love you.

Hehe, I really don't want to bring any more criticism into this thread, but saying you know how it is or you know how the person feels is actually incorrect grief counseling, too.

Sorry!

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 01:37 PM

Hehe, I really don't want to bring any more criticism into this thread, but saying you know how it is or you know how the person feels is actually incorrect grief counseling, too.

Sorry!

If you don't like what people are saying, then get out of the thread. No one's making you post here.

blindrider529

12/12/08, 01:44 PM

If you don't like what people are saying, then get out of the thread. No one's making you post here.
He's trying to prevent the original poster from the eventual pain that he will believes will be sustained from bad advice! haha We already had an essay contest discussing it :-P

I'm still waiting for some positive advice of his own beyond just criticism of others' ideas.

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 01:57 PM

bung

12/12/08, 02:04 PM

He's trying to prevent the original poster from the eventual pain that he will believes will be sustained from bad advice! haha We already had an essay contest discussing it :-P

I'm still waiting for some positive advice of his own beyond just criticism of others' ideas.

Actually, my own advice is if you want condolences and solace in experiencing loss, you should not look to a thread on the internet. Things like this mean tremendously more when they come from someone you love.

People close to the OP, his family or friends, should let him know how terrible they feel that he must experience something like this, that they're there if he wants to talk, or fuck--just give the man a hug. If he wants to be left alone, then leave him alone. If he wants to talk, then talk. Also, a person needs to be especially lenient with the griever in times like this, because their emotions can get a little out of whack and it's a lot easier for the grieving person to be a prick to other people.. so it's foolish to take it personally if they do or say something offending.

And if shit gets really bad, there is always local support groups for this type of thing that really help a lot of people.

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 02:08 PM

Actually, my own advice is if you want condolences and solace in experiencing loss, you should not look to a thread on the internet. Things like this mean tremendously more when they come from someone you love.

People close to the OP, his family or friends, should let him know how terrible they feel that he must experience something like this, that they're there if he wants to talk, or fuck--just give the man a hug. If he wants to be left alone, then leave him alone. If he wants to talk, then talk. Also, a person needs to be especially lenient with the griever in times like this, because their emotions can get a little out of whack and it's a lot easier for the grieving person to be a prick to other people.. so it's foolish to take it personally if they do or say something offending.

And if shit gets really bad, there is always local support groups for this type of thing that really help a lot of people.

He said, "she was a fucking ray of sunshine. and i don't know why im posting this, i just want everyone to know how beautiful and sweet this girl was". He wasn't posting it looking for our sympathy or condolences, he was trying to use it as a way to remember her, and I think you should respect that, rather than causing conflict in this thread. Condolences just come with news like this. I'm sure he has people he loves consoling him; that wasn't his intent in posting this thread.

bung

12/12/08, 02:08 PM

If you don't like what people are saying, then get out of the thread. No one's making you post here.

Coincidentally, you apparently don't like what I'm saying. Which means...

bung

12/12/08, 02:10 PM

He said, "she was a fucking ray of sunshine. and i don't know why im posting this, i just want everyone to know how beautiful and sweet this girl was". He wasn't posting it looking for our sympathy or condolences, he was trying to use it as a way to remember her, and I think you should respect that, rather than causing conflict in this thread. Condolences just come with news like this. I'm sure he has people he loves consoling him; that wasn't his intent in posting this thread.

A thread on the internet to remember someone you love? Really? How much of a stupid fucking cunt must you be to actually believe that?

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 02:14 PM

A thread on the internet to remember someone you love? Really? How much of a stupid fucking cunt must you be to actually believe that?

I believe I've asked you before not to call me that. And if it's his way of remembering her, who are you to say he shouldn't do that?

bung

12/12/08, 02:29 PM

I believe I've asked you before not to call me that. And if it's his way of remembering her, who are you to say he shouldn't do that?

And I believe I will continue to call you that until you demonstrate that you are not, in fact, a stupid fucking cunt.

Nobody needs a "way" to remember a person they love. If you love someone, you'll remember them. If anything (if you won't believe it was made for the very purpose of receiving sympathy and condolences), the thread was most likely made as a way to honor her (which is a pretty lackluster way to honor someone, in my humble opinion).

blindrider529

12/12/08, 02:39 PM

(Nickel Creek is cool. You're cool.)
You are cool for having both of those opinions!

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 02:57 PM

And I believe I will continue to call you that until you demonstrate that you are not, in fact, a stupid fucking cunt.

Nobody needs a "way" to remember a person they love. If you love someone, you'll remember them. If anything (if you won't believe it was made for the very purpose of receiving sympathy and condolences), the thread was most likely made as a way to honor her (which is a pretty lackluster way to honor someone, in my humble opinion).

I'm serious. Please stop calling me that.

Well, it doesn't really matter how you feel about it because you didn't know her. If that's how he wants to honor her, then let him do it.

You are cool for having both of those opinions!

Thanks, haha :-)

atticus1492

12/12/08, 02:57 PM

Great thread, op. I lol'd so hard.

bung

12/12/08, 03:02 PM

I'm serious. Please stop calling me that.

Ok, sorry.

edit: Actually, I retract that sorry. It's a shame, because it was sincere, but I've apparently received a 10 point "infraction" (which I didn't even know existed) because of, of all things, internet name calling.

jimjam32

12/12/08, 03:08 PM

Great thread, op. I lol'd so hard.
this thread has certainly helped me decipher which posters should be put on my ignore list and those who shouldn't.

jimjam32

12/12/08, 03:10 PM

Anyways, like I said when I first made the thread, i don't know why I made it. I was sitting home alone a few days after it happened. i had no one to talk to. I just needed to express something -- anything. I kind of regret making this thread now. So any mods want to close it, thats fine. i just really loved the girl.

atticus1492

12/12/08, 03:13 PM

this thread has certainly helped me decipher which posters should be put on my ignore list and those who shouldn't.

Yeah, I know. A lot of pricks here who can't take a joke, amirite?

I mean, come on, why would anyone get so mad?

Roboman

12/12/08, 03:20 PM

Ok, sorry.

edit: Actually, I retract that sorry. It's a shame, because it was sincere, but I've apparently received a 10 point "infraction" (which I didn't even know existed) because of, of all things, internet name calling.

:overhead::clap::overhead:

bung

12/12/08, 03:24 PM

:overhead::clap::overhead:

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/internet-24591.jpg

blindrider529

12/12/08, 04:11 PM

edit: Actually, I retract that sorry. It's a shame, because it was sincere, but I've apparently received a 10 point "infraction" (which I didn't even know existed) because of, of all things, internet name calling.
Say what?

bung

12/12/08, 04:15 PM

Say what?

I'm assuming firecrackaaaa decided to report me or something. So I got a little private message as such:

Dear bung,

You have received an infraction for this post:

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=29581152

Reason:
-------
Insulted Other Members Repeatedly

Not only did you refer to her as a "cunt," you did so repeatedly, after she asked you politely to stop.

This type of behavior is not going to be tolerated.
-------

This infraction is worth 10 points (at 15 you will be banned) and may result in restricted access until it expires.

All the best,
AbsolutePunk.net

So unless she went to trouble of finding a previous post in which I called her a "cunt," apparently "repeatedly" equals twice on AP. Actually, when I think about it, I called her a cunt only once after she asked me to stop, which means "repeatedly, after she asked you politely to stop" equals once on AP.

blindrider529

12/12/08, 04:18 PM

I'm assuming firecrackaaaa decided to report me or something. So I got a little private message as such:

Dear bung,

You have received an infraction for this post:

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=29581152

Reason:
-------
Insulted Other Members Repeatedly

Not only did you refer to her as a "cunt," you did so repeatedly, after she asked you politely to stop.

This type of behavior is not going to be tolerated.
-------

This infraction is worth 10 points (at 15 you will be banned) and may result in restricted access until it expires.

All the best,
AbsolutePunk.net
haha it would be hilarious if you got another 5 point infraction for retracting your apology :-d

bung

12/12/08, 04:22 PM

haha it would be hilarious if you got another 5 point infraction for retracting your apology :-d

What's funny is that she's the one that started talking to me (and not with politeness, mind you), so if she would have just kept her mouth shut, she wouldn't have been called what I chose to call her. In fact, on some level, it's almost coercion!

firecrackaaa!

12/12/08, 04:56 PM

MarsEatWorld

12/12/08, 06:49 PM

haha check my signature.
That is sooo amazing. <3
I'm addicted to that show.

Nathan Lint

12/12/08, 07:20 PM

Wow you guys are all assholes. I don't understand why you'd even think it was appropriate to joke in a thread like this.

bung

12/12/08, 08:44 PM

Wow you guys are all assholes. I don't understand why you'd even think it was appropriate to joke in a thread like this.

Cuz life doesn't cease being funny when someone dies, the same way it doesn't cease being serious when someone laughs.