What have we learned?

[Mike Kraft]

One of my educated friends likes to keep up with what was happening thousands of years ago and what the leaders were saying. Perhaps we should get him to widely publicize his findings:

What have we learned in two millenniums?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."- Cicero - 55 .BC

Evidently nothing.

[Mike Kraft]

He was a very wise and exceptional man. I'm reading De Natura Deorum; it's very interesting.

[vasallenstaat]

I agree with both of you. Cicero was the one ancient roman I wish my latin classes had focused on more. The poets are wonderful, but why not teach us some government and politics? Especially since we need those lessons even more today.

[vasallenstaat]

And I do agree, Cicero is right up there with Hitles in the public speaking. The world for a speaker with Cicero's views and both men's talented speaking.

[benn10]

The internet does lie once in a while, lol.

"The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall."

That's the original quote. The rest of it was added by someone else.

[hoss pinkerton]

Greed and corruption trump rationality. Personal gain for our country has always been favored over hard lessons learned in the past. The findings you cite have been known by the top brass for a long time, it's just easier to ignore them..

[J.C.]

Humans are stupid.

[boykosaurus]

We've learned to ignore history and reality.

[lew_1987]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint." - Hesiod (8th century B.C.)

[CrenshawPunch]

One of my educated friends likes to keep up with what was happening thousands of years ago and what the leaders were saying. Perhaps we should get him to widely publicize his findings:

What have we learned in two millenniums?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."- Cicero - 55 .BC

Evidently nothing.

Love this man. Unfortunately the bold part is where you are going to run into trouble.

[saysmydoctor]

One of my educated friends likes to keep up with what was happening thousands of years ago and what the leaders were saying. Perhaps we should get him to widely publicize his findings:

What have we learned in two millenniums?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."- Cicero - 55 .BC

Evidently nothing.
Cicero was a genius, no lie.
Love this man. Unfortunately the bold part is where you are going to run into trouble.
Unemployment is not always the fault of the unemployed.

[lauren<3s music]

yeah sure this makes a whole lot of sense in its original period. we will always have some debt which is a good thing, see bonds etc. also deficit spending under some economic conditions is actually good for revitalizing the economy, see Keynes.

[J.C.]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint." - Hesiod (8th century B.C.)


Ha. I like this one.

[lew_1987]

Ha. I like this one.

It blows my mind that the quote is from 8th century BC, but it still applies exactly to today. Such a chilling thought.

[CrenshawPunch]

Cicero was a genius, no lie.

Unemployment is not always the fault of the unemployed.

Irrelevant point. The fact remains that thousands upon thousands who are able to work choose not to do so, and instead rely on the government.

[saysmydoctor]

Irrelevant point. The fact remains that thousands upon thousands who are able to work choose not to do so, and instead rely on the government.
How is it irrelevant? People for the most part don't want to reliant, they want to be self-reliant. Some aren't. It's a completely relevant point. Stop creating a random vague figure to make a hasty generalization.

[CrenshawPunch]

How is it irrelevant? People for the most part don't want to reliant, they want to be self-reliant. Some aren't. It's a completely relevant point. Stop creating a random vague figure to make a hasty generalization.

It's irrelevant to what Cicero said. My figure is not random or vague, its well-known. Of course people want to be self-reliant. That's why a majority of the population is. I was speaking specifically about those on welfare. A large portion of which are able to work but choose not too.

[lauren<3s music]

yes because you can live such a lavish lifestyle on welfare

[CrenshawPunch]

yes because you can live such a lavish lifestyle on welfare

What does that have to do with anything?

[lauren<3s music]

What does that have to do with anything?
i'm pretty sure the people who choose to be on welfare because they'd rather not work are far fewer than you estimate. a lot of people have to be on some sort of support system, especially now.

[CrenshawPunch]

i'm pretty sure the people who choose to be on welfare because they'd rather not work are far fewer than you estimate. a lot of people have to be on some sort of support system, especially now.


What does that have to do with what you just said? Are you capable of a cohesive argument?

Far fewer than tens of thousands?So what are we talking.. hundreds? I don't think so. Maybe in each major city.

I think a limited system of welfare is a great idea. I also think in it's current state the welfare system is in bad shape, and prone to abuse.

[lauren<3s music]

What does that have to do with what you just said?

yes because you can live such a lavish lifestyle on welfare

it's called sarcasm.

Are you capable of a cohesive argument?

Yes, very much so.

Far fewer than tens of thousands?So what are we talking.. hundreds? I don't think so. Maybe in each major city.

Funny how your number keeps changing...

Irrelevant point. The fact remains that thousands upon thousands who are able to work choose not to do so, and instead rely on the government.

and of course

It's irrelevant to what Cicero said. My figure is not random or vague, its well-known. Of course people want to be self-reliant. That's why a majority of the population is. I was speaking specifically about those on welfare. A large portion of which are able to work but choose not too.

A large portion of people who receive public assistance are not people who choose not to work. Have you taken a look at the Medicare population stats? Medical inflation? The number of children on SCHIP who have both parents employed? I'm guessing not or you wouldn't be so quick to make sweeping generalizations about a variety of programs all of which can be classified as "welfare" programs. Perhaps you should point to specific programs/statistics about fraud and then I'll believe you.

I think a limited system of welfare is a great idea. I also think in it's current state the welfare system is in bad shape, and prone to abuse.

any government program can be improved.

[saysmydoctor]

It's irrelevant to what Cicero said. My figure is not random or vague, its well-known. Of course people want to be self-reliant. That's why a majority of the population is. I was speaking specifically about those on welfare. A large portion of which are able to work but choose not too.
What figure? "Thousands?" What the fuck is thousands? Is that a percentage? You pulled a term viewed as large and tried to use it as a qualifier of your ridiculous point. Cicero doesn't live in the post-industrial economic world and never did. I brought up something Cicero didn't anticipate. Try again.