How long will it be before America is ready to...

[Praetor]

...elect a non-Christian president?

Just something I was kicking around in my head today. Don't turn this into a religion debate.

[Praetor]

Oh, and in before the

http://obamawho.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/obama-muslim.jpg

[Machu505]

2032

That'll be the year.

[loveisdead]

A very long time. Ill say 30 years.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

it will be a while.

Though we probably have had athiets/agnostics in office but they were forced to idenify themselves as a christian for campaign reasons but held other personal beliefs

[Mercy Medical]

Never.

[Praetor]

it will be a while.

Though we probably have had athiets/agnostics in office but they were forced to idenify themselves as a christian for campaign reasons but held other personal beliefs
Thought of this as well. Kind of sad to be honest.

[VIVALAMATT]

A.) Why does it even matter? If the candidate can run our country...

B.) I draw a line between Catholics and Christians, so therefore not every president has been Christian.

C.) It would be tough for someone, say a Mormon or a Jew, to get the conservative vote. Religion is a big issue - I'm not saying it should be, but that's just how it is.

[loveisdead]

A.) Why does it even matter? If the candidate can run our country...

B.) I draw a line between Catholics and Christians, so therefore not every president has been Christian.

C.) It would be tough for someone, say a Mormon or a Jew, to get the conservative vote. Religion is a big issue - I'm not saying it should be, but that's just how it is.
I agree with a and c but just because you draw a line doesn't mean it's actually correct haha.

[VIVALAMATT]

I agree with a and c but just because you draw a line doesn't mean it's actually correct haha.

I'm just saying, by that logic not every president has been Christian. "B" is completely my view, no one has to agree with that one. I'm just saying, the two are different. I'm Catholic and go to Catholic churches.

[billyboatkid]

Maybe when people stop practicing Christianity.

[billyboatkid]

I'm just saying, by that logic not every president has been Christian. "B" is completely my view, no one has to agree with that one. I'm just saying, the two are different. I'm Catholic and go to Catholic churches.

I agree with you.

I'm Catholic too and we have Saint's and the Pope and a bunch of other stuff.

Well I guess we have different fundamentals compared to Christians. Even though it some what branches.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

B.) I draw a line between Catholics and Christians, so therefore not every president has been Christian.



I'm just saying, by that logic not every president has been Christian. "B" is completely my view, no one has to agree with that one. I'm just saying, the two are different. I'm Catholic and go to Catholic churches.


I am also Catholic but I having trouble understanding what you are trying to say.

[Adeniz19]

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. At least, that's what my priest and catechism teachers told me when I was younger.

[jagermeister]

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. At least, that's what my priest and catechism teachers told me when I was younger.

Nailed it. No debate.

[cawmrseagull]

A.) Why does it even matter? If the candidate can run our country...

B.) I draw a line between Catholics and Christians, so therefore not every president has been Christian.

C.) It would be tough for someone, say a Mormon or a Jew, to get the conservative vote. Religion is a big issue - I'm not saying it should be, but that's just how it is.

Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity. They are also mostly conservative (see: Prop 8). But I do think someone of the Mormon faith would have a difficult time being elected. There are many misconceptions surrounding them.

[x togepi x]

A.) Why does it even matter? If the candidate can run our country...

.

You don't at all think it's weird that in a country that claims democratic ideals that entire subsets of the population are limited out from being president because of religious preference?

[loveisdead]

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. At least, that's what my priest and catechism teachers told me when I was younger.
Yes.

[OldJersey]

Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity. They are also mostly conservative (see: Prop 8). But I do think someone of the Mormon faith would have a difficult time being elected. There are many misconceptions surrounding them.


How bout the magic underwear?

[J.C.]

I think we'll see a non-christian President in my lifetime(most likely Jewish).

Now a President who doesn't practice a religion? That one will take a while.

[cawmrseagull]

How bout the magic underwear?

You're referring to the garments they wear underneath their clothing as representation of promises they've made with God. It's a very sacred thing, so that's all I really know about it.

[Juturna25]

if we were smart we would have elected a jew this year to handle the economic crisis!

[domotime2]

if we were smart we would have elected a jew this year to handle the economic crisis!
ZING

[jagermeister]

I think we'll see a non-christian President in my lifetime(most likely Jewish).

Now a President who doesn't practice a religion? That one will take a while.

Could be interesting for Israel, no?

I personally don't think a non-Christian president will exist until the majority of the population is atheist/agnostic or something other than Christian. As obvious and simple as that sounds, I think it holds true. Can you imagine all those nuts in the South such as those in the anti-Obama protest videos were faced with voting for a Jew?

[Nevuk]

Wasn't Jefferson deist?

[readyfredi]

I agree with a and c but just because you draw a line doesn't mean it's actually correct haha.

i'm glad someone caught that haha

[readyfredi]

How bout the magic underwear?

:lol:

[Mercy Medical]

Wasn't Jefferson deist?
Along these same lines, I thought that a lot of the earliest Presidents weren't actually Christian. I think we have actually gotten progressively more and more religious as the years have gone by. As much as we'd like to think that people were more so in past history, I think the USA as a nation is more religious now then it was during it's initially creation.

[1Roth4]

A.) Why does it even matter? If the candidate can run our country...

B.) I draw a line between Catholics and Christians, so therefore not every president has been Christian.

C.) It would be tough for someone, say a Mormon or a Jew, to get the conservative vote. Religion is a big issue - I'm not saying it should be, but that's just how it is.

Mitt Romney will be the next Republican nominee. Mark my words.

[Regards]

Christianity =/= Catholicism

The catholic bible actually has more books in it, and a ton more doctrines etc etc. Also just because a president says their Christian doesn't mean they are. Now-a-days it just seems they say they're Christian to secure their religious part of politics.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

What are you talking about?

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity! it just happens to be the first organized version of it. and many version of christianity have come from people's disagreements with it.

there is no "Catholic bible".

even if it "has more books in it" (which it does not) there are mant other Christian deominations that have different writings and books that are sacred (i.e. the Book of Mormon)

[Mercy Medical]

Can we all just agree that organized religion is stupid because there are so many denominations that spawn from the same initial idea and aspects, but vary so much?

[CTMarshall]

A lot of Americans want to believe that their President is being assisted by God. I guess it helps them sleep at night or something, but it probably won't ever change.

[Mercy Medical]

A lot of Americans want to believe that their President is being assisted by God. I guess it helps them sleep at night or something, but it probably won't ever change.
From my own experience with my family (who are all Christian) they've basically said that they feel as though our President should be leading us in the right path and, obviously, to them the right path is a Christian one.

[Regards]

What are you talking about?

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity! it just happens to be the first organized version of it. and many version of christianity have come from people's disagreements with it.

there is no "Catholic bible".

even if it "has more books in it" (which it does not) there are mant other Christian deominations that have different writings and books that are sacred (i.e. the Book of Mormon)
http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/ExtraCatholicBooks.htm

There are 7 more books in the Catholic Bible. I guess trying to stay as far away from keeping this a religious debate I'll just say that there seems to be so much hypocrisy in the Catholic church in the doctrines, and how they carry them selves vs what Jesus actually came and taught. I see that and I have a hard time calling them Christians I guess :shrug:

Might be a personal thing.

[CTMarshall]

From my own experience with my family (who are all Christian) they've basically said that they feel as though our President should be leading us in the right path and, obviously, to them the right path is a Christian one.
exactly. I live in the Bible Belt, and that's what everyone says. They think that we need a President who can turn America away from it sin and lead us down a road of righteousness etc etc... I'm pretty sure the president has bigger things to worry about though.

[Mercy Medical]

http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/ExtraCatholicBooks.htm

There are 7 more books in the Catholic Bible. I guess trying to stay as far away from keeping this a religious debate I'll just say that there seems to be so much hypocrisy in the Catholic church in the doctrines, and how they carry them selves vs what Jesus actually came and taught. I see that and I have a hard time calling them Christians I guess :shrug:

Might be a personal thing.
There's a lot of hypocrisy in the Christian church as well. I don't think any religious institution is without it's own hypocrisy.

[more heart]

It's the same as why not many blacks get elected...not many run. If more people from varying religious groups ran for some kind of office, you never know what could happen.

[Regards]

There's a lot of hypocrisy in the Christian church as well. I don't think any religious institution is without it's own hypocrisy.
That's very very true, and that was a bad way of me wording what I was trying to say. We're all hypocrits, one way or another I guess.

[Nevuk]

I'm fairly sure we've gotten much more religious in the last 30-40 years as a country, and overall this is probably one of the most religious times in the country's history. (I can't think of any more except for the the two "great awakenings" and the original puritan peoples)

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/ExtraCatholicBooks.htm

There are 7 more books in the Catholic Bible. I guess trying to stay as far away from keeping this a religious debate I'll just say that there seems to be so much hypocrisy in the Catholic church in the doctrines, and how they carry them selves vs what Jesus actually came and taught. I see that and I have a hard time calling them Christians I guess :shrug:

Might be a personal thing.


Ok I see what you mean. those 7 books are part of what started the Protestant Reformation so it seems futile to argue . I never realized that they have their own section inbetween the Old and New testament in most bibles (King James Version the most popular).

oh and trust the hypocrisy of Catholism is something I have struggled with my whole life. When I went to college it was the first non-catholic school I had ever gone to.

[perceptrons]

I refuse to believe that Obama truly believes in the religion he claims, and maybe even god at all.

The man is too smart, he's been known to criticize it on multiple occasions, and said he was brought up as an agnostic. Most intelligent people, if religion wasn't put in their head from childhood, won't believe in it.

Now, how long until America elects an open non-believer? Maaaany years.

[Regards]

Ok I see what you mean. those 7 books are part of what started the Protestant Reformation so it seems futile to argue . I never realized that they have their own section inbetween the Old and New testament in most bibles (King James Version the most popular).

oh and trust the hypocrisy of Catholism is something I have struggled with my whole life. When I went to college it was the first non-catholic school I had ever gone to.
Dang. Yeah, I was raised Catholic til I was in 7th grade. Is the colloge, or was the college you went to a Christian one?

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

Dang. Yeah, I was raised Catholic til I was in 7th grade. Is the colloge, or was the college you went to a Christian one?

No . I went to the University of Kansas. I was really involved at the Catholic Student Center there for a while but then the people there kinda ruined it and from there I started think for myself about things , research the Church's histrioy ,and realized that i did not want Catholicism to control my life.

[Mercy Medical]

No . I went to the University of Kansas. I was really involved at the Catholic Student Center there for a while but then the people there kinda ruined it and from there I started think for myself about things , research the Church's histrioy ,and realized that i did not want Catholicism to control my life.
I feel like once people do some true research about the origins of their specific religious institutions or religion in general and see through the blind faith they begin to see the light.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I feel like once people do some true research about the origins of their specific religious institutions or religion in general and see through the blind faith they begin to see the light.

Ya i totally agree. I love alot things Catholicism offer but dispise alot of other stuff about it. . And I know I have lost that blind faith and that it is more mature now .I would never leave the church though even with all the things I disagree with. My brother left last year and it killed my mom but I think that it has made her stronger and my brother is happy so it wasn't all bad.

man I sure am spilling my guts today. haha.

[thatwasamoment]

Though Jews run America through their corporations and lobby,a Jew will never be elected president. There would be hell to pay from the middle east.

[Mercy Medical]

Ya i totally agree. I love alot things Catholicism offer but dispise alot of other stuff about it. . And I know I have lost that blind faith and that it is more mature now .I would never leave the church though even with all the things I disagree with. My brother left last year and it killed my mom but I think that it has made her stronger and my brother is happy so it wasn't all bad.

man I sure am spilling my guts today. haha.
I'm of non-denominational Christian origin. My family are all very, very strong Christians, however, they're not really as ridiculous about it as some people are. When I went through the whole "finding myself out" period in high school when I first started realizing I might be a lesbian I started questioning everything I believed. Since then I've sort of established the idea that I agree with the base of Christianity. I believe in God, I believe that Jesus is the "son of God" and died for our sins, but other then that...I'm not really sure what I believe. I don't necessarily believe in the Bible because while it's supposed to have been written divinely by God through men, I know that human beings are corrupt and flawed. I can't stand the hypocrisy I see in the church itself. I can't stand the fact that you can go from one church to the next and have them preach in completely opposite ways about the same subject. I suppose, for the most part, I've just completely disassociated myself from Christianity as a religious institution. I agree with Ghandi 100% when he said "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[fightoffyrdmns]

Nailed it. No debate.

Nice pun.

[MyWorldEntire]

Though Jews run America through their corporations and lobby,a Jew will never be elected president. There would be hell to pay from the middle east.

:rolleyes:

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I'm of non-denominational Christian origin. My family are all very, very strong Christians, however, they're not really as ridiculous about it as some people are. When I went through the whole "finding myself out" period in high school when I first started realizing I might be a lesbian I started questioning everything I believed. Since then I've sort of established the idea that I agree with the base of Christianity. I believe in God, I believe that Jesus is the "son of God" and died for our sins, but other then that...I'm not really sure what I believe. I don't necessarily believe in the Bible because while it's supposed to have been written divinely by God through men, I know that human beings are corrupt and flawed. I can't stand the hypocrisy I see in the church itself. I can't stand the fact that you can go from one church to the next and have them preach in completely opposite ways about the same subject. I suppose, for the most part, I've just completely disassociated myself from Christianity as a religious institution. I agree with Ghandi 100% when he said "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I agree with you on everything you have said. And I can understand where you are coming from.

I feel like my my indentity as a Catholic is hard-coded into me, its hard to explain but its was just ingrained into me from a young age and its a large part of my family's heritage. My family is a pretty normal Catholic family nothing crazy. We were never extreme with anything. I mean I thought abtou joing the semenary in high school for like a second and my cousin actually did for 2 years but we were never hardcore about.

I really like that Ghandi quote.

[Mercy Medical]

I agree with you on everything you have said. And I can understand where you are coming from.

I feel like my my indentity as a Catholic is hard-coded into me, its hard to explain but its was just ingrained into me from a young age and its a large part of my family's heritage. My family is a pretty normal Catholic family nothing crazy. We were never extreme with anything. I mean I thought abtou joing the semenary in high school for like a second and my cousin actually did for 2 years but we were never hardcore about.

I really like that Ghandi quote.
I've come to the realization that someone could go through and disprove everything about the Bible with science or whatever they want and I would still believe in God.

I think that speaks pretty true of where I am with my religion and beliefs.

[Adeniz19]

I'm of non-denominational Christian origin. My family are all very, very strong Christians, however, they're not really as ridiculous about it as some people are. When I went through the whole "finding myself out" period in high school when I first started realizing I might be a lesbian I started questioning everything I believed. Since then I've sort of established the idea that I agree with the base of Christianity. I believe in God, I believe that Jesus is the "son of God" and died for our sins, but other then that...I'm not really sure what I believe. I don't necessarily believe in the Bible because while it's supposed to have been written divinely by God through men, I know that human beings are corrupt and flawed. I can't stand the hypocrisy I see in the church itself. I can't stand the fact that you can go from one church to the next and have them preach in completely opposite ways about the same subject. I suppose, for the most part, I've just completely disassociated myself from Christianity as a religious institution. I agree with Ghandi 100% when he said "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."this is pretty much my exact thoughts on religion as well.

Could be interesting for Israel, no?

I personally don't think a non-Christian president will exist until the majority of the population is atheist/agnostic or something other than Christian. As obvious and simple as that sounds, I think it holds true. Can you imagine all those nuts in the South such as those in the anti-Obama protest videos were faced with voting for a Jew?They would react the same, seeing as how a lot of them are dead set on thinking Obama is a Muslim, and I'm sure in their eyes, that is a lot worse than being Jewish.

[J.C.]

A.) Why does it even matter? If the candidate can run our country...

B.) I draw a line between Catholics and Christians, so therefore not every president has been Christian.

C.) It would be tough for someone, say a Mormon or a Jew, to get the conservative vote. Religion is a big issue - I'm not saying it should be, but that's just how it is.

Mormons are overwhelmingly conservative and Republicans have been trying to chip away at the Jewish block in the Democratic party by going the extra mile in essentially vowing unconditional support for Israel.

[oldwirehands]

I'd say we'll be lucky to live long enough to see it happen.

[boykosaurus]

At least a century.

[Justin_stacy]

Lieberman could have won the position, and been president already, had that shit for brains Kerry not gotten the nomination. So this nonsense about 'centuries' or 'never' is just stupid. It will just take the right person to stand up and want the job.

Four years ago I'd have said it was more likely we'd see our first Mexican-American president, before a Black one. But then Mr Obama came out of nowhere and captivated democrats.

Now a practicing Muslim would have a hard time getting elected (for any position), there is no denying that, but that will fade just as fear of Judaism and Catholicism has died out among most Americans.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) is a muslim (http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/36178739.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaE yqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUT)

[Machu505]

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) is a muslim (http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/36178739.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaE yqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUT)

So is Andre Carson (D-IN).

[x togepi x]

I refuse to believe that Obama truly believes in the religion he claims, and maybe even god at all.

The man is too smart, he's been known to criticize it on multiple occasions, and said he was brought up as an agnostic. Most intelligent people, if religion wasn't put in their head from childhood, won't believe in it.

Now, how long until America elects an open non-believer? Maaaany years.

you do realize there are smart christians who criticize religion, right? It wouldn't make sense for him to have put up with the rev. wright mess if he were just picking a religion for political points.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

So is Andre Carson (D-IN).

Cool! very good to hear.

I'm surpirsed we have not had a Muslim conressman/woman/person from Michigan yet. Michigan has the largest consitration of musilims in the U.S. doesn't it?

[perceptrons]

you do realize there are smart christians who criticize religion, right? It wouldn't make sense for him to have put up with the rev. wright mess if he were just picking a religion for political points.
I do realize that, and I don't believe Obama is one. (For the record, I don't believe you can be that smart if you're part of an organized religion)

He didn't, he left.

[Adeniz19]

I do realize that, and I don't believe Obama is one. (For the record, I don't believe you can be that smart if you're part of an organized religion)

He didn't, he left.
:eyebrow:

And just because he left his congregation, doesn't mean he stopped practicing his faith.

[perceptrons]

:eyebrow:

And just because he left his congregation, doesn't mean he stopped practicing his faith.
Assuming he actually does, I never said he stopped. However, I think he went to that church for the whole experience of the church, not because he truly believes in all the religions crap. Those types of churches are different than boring churches you and I went/go to.

[asmolitor]

... the "experience" of a mass? with the whole prayer, sermon, communion thing? yeah, really conducive to someone only looking to fill some time. first choice of everyone to wake up early on a sunday, if i'm not mistaken. it's like super bowl sunday EVERY sunday. except with priests doing hail mary's, not quarterbacks. /bad pun

regardless, glad to see that intelligence and religion are mutually exclusive in all cases by your standard.

[theguy77]

I'm of non-denominational Christian origin. My family are all very, very strong Christians, however, they're not really as ridiculous about it as some people are. When I went through the whole "finding myself out" period in high school when I first started realizing I might be a lesbian I started questioning everything I believed. Since then I've sort of established the idea that I agree with the base of Christianity. I believe in God, I believe that Jesus is the "son of God" and died for our sins, but other then that...I'm not really sure what I believe. I don't necessarily believe in the Bible because while it's supposed to have been written divinely by God through men, I know that human beings are corrupt and flawed. I can't stand the hypocrisy I see in the church itself. I can't stand the fact that you can go from one church to the next and have them preach in completely opposite ways about the same subject. I suppose, for the most part, I've just completely disassociated myself from Christianity as a religious institution. I agree with Ghandi 100% when he said "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

holy shit, completely encompasses my views, VERBATIM. the only thing i might add is that i believe the real, direct word of God is in your conscience although it can be easily misinterpreted (exactly why i dont believe in the Bible).

there is the argument that a conscience is socially constructed which can be argued quite well, and i dont discount the idea of culture having a significant extrinsic influence. however it is uncanny how despite minor cultural deviations, in almost all major cultures of the world it is wrong to lie, cheat, steal, or kill and the fundamentals of most religions seem to include limits and boundaries for sexual activity as well.

[theguy77]

being spiritually oriented has nothing to do with intelligence. however the extent of the application of spiritual derivatives to reason and perception can determine a person's inclination to emotional thinking versus intellectual thinking. without trying to sound cocky i am by no means unintelligent but i am a very emotional thinker, although i've become a lot more intellectually oriented than i used to be and im constantly eroding away more and more of the closed-mindedness that goes along with pure emotional thinking.

[samsara]

I dont think there ever will be. But at the rate that people dont have religions anymore....it may be possible

[x togepi x]

I do realize that, and I don't believe Obama is one. (For the record, I don't believe you can be that smart if you're part of an organized religion)

He didn't, he left.

Your contention is that he picked religion for political points. If this was the case, why wouldn't he pick the most moderate church possible? He picked one, their pastor said crazy shit, he then left. It seems like he left because of a disagreement and not because he was trying to score political points since he would have picked the most moderate/mainstream church possible to begin with.

[BrennanHickson]

Christianity =/= Catholicism

The catholic bible actually has more books in it, and a ton more doctrines etc etc.
You're right. Christianity is not Catholicism. Catholicism is Christianity.

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity; because of this, it has formed its own doctrines based on the fundamentals of the Christian religion. I will agree that these doctrines are very diverse when compared to other denominations though I'm not part of the Catholic church.

[perceptrons]

... the "experience" of a mass? with the whole prayer, sermon, communion thing? yeah, really conducive to someone only looking to fill some time. first choice of everyone to wake up early on a sunday, if i'm not mistaken. it's like super bowl sunday EVERY sunday. except with priests doing hail mary's, not quarterbacks. /bad pun

regardless, glad to see that intelligence and religion are mutually exclusive in all cases by your standard.
Your contention is that he picked religion for political points. If this was the case, why wouldn't he pick the most moderate church possible? He picked one, their pastor said crazy shit, he then left. It seems like he left because of a disagreement and not because he was trying to score political points since he would have picked the most moderate/mainstream church possible to begin with.
My contention is that he doesn't really believe it, and that to get elected, he needs to show faith in some religion and be apart of some church. I think he chose a church that would be at least enjoyable for him to attend. As I said in another post, there are other reasons to go to the type of church he went to, other than completely worshiping god. That type of church is about a whole community experience, not just a dude standing up there talking rather boringly (like every sermon I've ever been too). Up until about a year and a half ago, it didn't matter at all what church he went to and he's been going there for far longer than that. He chose the church, I believe, when he was starting as a community organizer, so it's quite possible that a lot of the people he worked with went there and recommended it to him. Perhaps Michelle (I don;t know how religious she is) also liked it.There are tons of reasons to go to church, it doesn't mean he believes it.

You can be intelligent in a certain sense in still be religious, just not in a lot of senses.

[boykosaurus]

An amazingly dumb argument.

[Mercy Medical]

holy shit, completely encompasses my views, VERBATIM. the only thing i might add is that i believe the real, direct word of God is in your conscience although it can be easily misinterpreted (exactly why i dont believe in the Bible).

there is the argument that a conscience is socially constructed which can be argued quite well, and i dont discount the idea of culture having a significant extrinsic influence. however it is uncanny how despite minor cultural deviations, in almost all major cultures of the world it is wrong to lie, cheat, steal, or kill and the fundamentals of most religions seem to include limits and boundaries for sexual activity as well.I'm glad to now know that there are quite a few people out there who believe and feel the same way as I do. I still associate as a "Christian" and label myself as such because I feel at the core, that's what I am.

I do realize that, and I don't believe Obama is one. (For the record, I don't believe you can be that smart if you're part of an organized religion)

He didn't, he left.That's a pretty ignorant statement to be making...

[theguy77]

My contention is that he doesn't really believe it, and that to get elected, he needs to show faith in some religion and be apart of some church. I think he chose a church that would be at least enjoyable for him to attend. As I said in another post, there are other reasons to go to the type of church he went to, other than completely worshiping god. That type of church is about a whole community experience, not just a dude standing up there talking rather boringly (like every sermon I've ever been too). Up until about a year and a half ago, it didn't matter at all what church he went to and he's been going there for far longer than that. He chose the church, I believe, when he was starting as a community organizer, so it's quite possible that a lot of the people he worked with went there and recommended it to him. Perhaps Michelle (I don;t know how religious she is) also liked it.There are tons of reasons to go to church, it doesn't mean he believes it.

You can be intelligent in a certain sense in still be religious, just not in a lot of senses.

you're an idiot stop trying to say something poignant

can't spell poignant without ignant! hahaha, /lame pun joke

[Adeniz19]

I'll agree with one thing, that Obama picked the Trinity Church for political purposes, seeing as how it is one of the largest churches in the Chicago area. But, to question his faith, and on top of that saying people who do practice any form of religion are not that smart, is pretty insulting. I don't think anyone could go to the same church for 20 years if they had no form of faith what-so-ever.

[mattmatumbo]

Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity. They are also mostly conservative (see: Prop 8). But I do think someone of the Mormon faith would have a difficult time being elected. There are many misconceptions surrounding them.

in agreement, there were a lot of people who were freaked to shit about electing Mitt Romney. I personally wouldn't elect a mormon because they're guaranteed as conservative as conservative can be.

[Machu505]

in agreement, there were a lot of people who were freaked to shit about electing Mitt Romney. I personally wouldn't elect a mormon because they're guaranteed as conservative as conservative can be.

Harry Reid is a Mormon.

[asmolitor]

You can be intelligent in a certain sense in still be religious, just not in a lot of senses.

how often do you attend church, by the way? and how religious are you?

[mattmatumbo]

Harry Reid is a Mormon.

hmmm, my ideas are thrown into confusion. i guess that's my prejudice.

regardless, i didn't vote for him.

[theguy77]

how often do you attend church, by the way? and how religious are you?

according to his nonsensical logic, he might want to consider religion himself so he can have an excuse for being such a moron.

[asmolitor]

according to his nonsensical logic, he might want to consider religion himself so he can have an excuse for being such a moron.

haha, my exact reason for such leading questioning.

[perceptrons]

I never said believing in religion makes you a completely idiot, as you all seem to think I did. I think it's somewhat funny how insulted you all are getting. I'm sure you all know the type of mental gymnastics you have to do to make believing in all the teachings of your favorite religion rational and logical. To me, logic and reason are a rather large part of your intelligence, and suspending it is a rather unintelligent thing to do. Go ahead and continue thinking I think all religious people are complete morons though, since actually reading what I say seems rather difficult for you all.

I also didn't say he had no faith whatsoever, I said I doubt he really believes everything organized religions put forth. If I said anything else, than I misspoke.

I attended church somewhat regularly all the way through high school, never because I desired to though.

[recall reality]

Wasn't Jefferson deist?

Jefferson is probably my favorite President, or at least the one I find the most interesting.

At least in his early days he was deist, perhaps a "Christian deist" in that he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. There is a lot of deist thought in the Declaration of Independence, and I can't think of a stronger voice for separation of church and state.

He was incredibly interested in theology and the teachings of Jesus, From his careful study of the Bible, He concluded that Jesus never claimed to be God. He therefore regarded much of the New Testament as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors", describing Paul as the "first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications". He also described the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams".

While living in the White House, Jefferson began to piece together his own condensed version of the Gospels, omitting the virgin birth of Jesus, miracles attributed to Jesus, divinity and the resurrection of Jesus. Thus, primarily leaving only Jesus' moral philosophy, of which he approved.

Could you imagine that today?

Later in his life one might classify him Unitarian, but he was as much an admirer in his life of Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, and John Locke as Jesus Christ.

The last statistics I saw, in Religulous mind you, held the non-religious population is more than the black, gay/lesbian and NRA member populations respectively. Either way, it is an incredibly underrepresented minority, "closet secularists" if you will.

I think we'll see another Jeffersonian U.S. President in our lifetime.

[Nevuk]

Jefferson is probably my favorite President, or at least the one I find the most interesting.

At least in his early days he was deist, perhaps a "Christian deist" in that he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. There is a lot of deist thought in the Declaration of Independence, and I can't think of a stronger voice for separation of church and state.

He was incredibly interested in theology and the teachings of Jesus, From his careful study of the Bible, He concluded that Jesus never claimed to be God. He therefore regarded much of the New Testament as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors", describing Paul as the "first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications". He also described the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams".

While living in the White House, Jefferson began to piece together his own condensed version of the Gospels, omitting the virgin birth of Jesus, miracles attributed to Jesus, divinity and the resurrection of Jesus. Thus, primarily leaving only Jesus' moral philosophy, of which he approved.

Could you imagine that today?

Later in his life one might classify him Unitarian, but he was as much an admirer in his life of Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, and John Locke as Jesus Christ.

The last statistics I saw, in Religulous mind you, held the non-religious population is more than the black, gay/lesbian and NRA member populations respectively. Either way, it is an incredibly underrepresented minority, "closet secularists" if you will.

I think we'll see another Jeffersonian U.S. President in our lifetime.
I just heard about this in my English Class. I thought it was hilarious, and awesome.

[&IllBeTheReason]

2032

That'll be the year.
Hahaha, that's the year I always say I'm going to run for President. I'm catholic/agnostic.

[Machu505]

Hahaha, that's the year I always say I'm going to run for President. I'm catholic/agnostic.

Well that's too bad, because that's the year I'm running for President.

[&IllBeTheReason]

Well that's too bad, because that's the year I'm running for President.
We'll see who gets the nomination.
;-)
I'm warning you, I'm pretty stubborn and persistent.

[theguy77]

Jefferson is probably my favorite President, or at least the one I find the most interesting.

At least in his early days he was deist, perhaps a "Christian deist" in that he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. There is a lot of deist thought in the Declaration of Independence, and I can't think of a stronger voice for separation of church and state.

He was incredibly interested in theology and the teachings of Jesus, From his careful study of the Bible, He concluded that Jesus never claimed to be God. He therefore regarded much of the New Testament as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors", describing Paul as the "first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications". He also described the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams".

While living in the White House, Jefferson began to piece together his own condensed version of the Gospels, omitting the virgin birth of Jesus, miracles attributed to Jesus, divinity and the resurrection of Jesus. Thus, primarily leaving only Jesus' moral philosophy, of which he approved.

Could you imagine that today?

Later in his life one might classify him Unitarian, but he was as much an admirer in his life of Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, and John Locke as Jesus Christ.

The last statistics I saw, in Religulous mind you, held the non-religious population is more than the black, gay/lesbian and NRA member populations respectively. Either way, it is an incredibly underrepresented minority, "closet secularists" if you will.

I think we'll see another Jeffersonian U.S. President in our lifetime.

i could definitely see that, i actually would think non-religious people are more underrepresented than demographic minorities (although not as much as, for example, homosexuals). like my own mother is always trying to further enhance my religious orientation by relaying some of the messages from her daily morning TV sermons, which i don't have a problem with i mean bible-based religion is important to her and i can understand shes trying to connect with me through that, and its not like shes forcing me to believe anything more than shes just sharing her beliefs. but i just get so pissed off when she says like "theres no way you can get through a problem or overcome sin without God" and im just like, wtf, two of my best friends are atheist and they've got some of the strongest moral fiber of anyone i know. its ridiculous the kinds of assumptions and condescension toward nonbelievers that comes from a typical christian.

thats really interesting about jefferson though.

[Machu505]

We'll elect a Jew before we elect and agnostic or an atheist.

[J.C.]

A Jew on a democratic ticket would easilly win an election. I'd say there's more prejudice against blacks than Jews.

There is and I agree, although I'd change 'would easily win' to 'could easily win'.

[loveisdead]

Definitely a Jewish person before anything else, but I'm still skeptical about it. I don't think we'll ever see an agnostic or atheist elected.

[ReadyForAction]

Hahaha, that's the year I always say I'm going to run for President. I'm catholic/agnostic.

Well that's too bad, because that's the year I'm running for President.

We'll see who gets the nomination.
;-)
I'm warning you, I'm pretty stubborn and persistent.

uh oh!

[Praetor]

Definitely a Jewish person before anything else, but I'm still skeptical about it. I don't think we'll ever see an agnostic or atheist elected.
Do you mean not in our lifetime or the country won't ever see it?

[loveisdead]

Do you mean not in our lifetime or the country won't ever see it?
Unless the country drastically changes I don't think it'll ever happen.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I don't think an atheist, or agnostic will ever be elected president.

[TotalCollapse]

I'd think it would be atleast thirty years. I honestly wish people were not so critical on the religion of the President. Religion really should not matter at all when you're President, but I know that would never happen. There is so much that goes into making a good President and religion is barely any of it, yet there are so many people who would refuse to vote for a Jewish person for President just because they are Jewish. It's the same thing with gender/race/etc. People who do that are shallow.
Religion should not have anything to do with the governemnt. I would not care the religion of the President as long as they don't bring religion into politics and try and shove thier beliefs down our throats.

[Machu505]

Stop with this never bullshit about an agnostic president. I'm telling you guys it'll be 2032.

[theguy77]

I don't think an atheist, or agnostic will ever be elected president.

i dont know this statistically but i think america's becoming more and more secular through every era. hell, it happened to britain on a massive scale in like less than a century.

[perceptrons]

Here's some stats on the issue from 2007.

A survey of young people ages 18-25 by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press includes encouraging news about the growth of humanist beliefs among the so-called "Generation Next." Among the findings:
One-in-five members of "Generation Next" say they have no religious affiliation or are atheist or agnostic, nearly double the proportion of young people who said that in the late 1980s.
Nexters are among the least likely to attend church regularly: 32 percent attend at least once a week compared with 40 percent of those over age 25.
Nearly two-thirds of Nexters (63 percent) believe humans and other living things evolved over time. By contrast, Americans over the age of 40 favor Creationist accounts over evolutionary theory.
Nexters are the most tolerant of any generation on social issues such as immigration, race and homosexuality.
Nexters are among the most likely to say the will of the American people, not the Bible, should be a more important influence on U.S. laws.
And just 4 percent of Gen Nexters say people in their generation view becoming more spiritual as their most important goal in life.
I think the percentage is actually higher, but many are in the closet.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

totally unrelated but I hate when the media tries to label a whole genereation a freaking letter : Y, X, Z,Q . its sooo dumb. does anyone really know /care about these?

/ rant

[loveisdead]

Nexters does sound kinda stupid.

[J.C.]

WE GOT NEXT
.

http://www.eteamz.com/newburghzionlions/images/wnba_logo1.jpg

[theguy77]

Here's some stats on the issue from 2007.

A survey of young people ages 18-25 by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press includes encouraging news about the growth of humanist beliefs among the so-called "Generation Next." Among the findings:

One-in-five members of "Generation Next" say they have no religious affiliation or are atheist or agnostic, nearly double the proportion of young people who said that in the late 1980s.
Nexters are among the least likely to attend church regularly: 32 percent attend at least once a week compared with 40 percent of those over age 25.
Nearly two-thirds of Nexters (63 percent) believe humans and other living things evolved over time. By contrast, Americans over the age of 40 favor Creationist accounts over evolutionary theory.
Nexters are the most tolerant of any generation on social issues such as immigration, race and homosexuality.
Nexters are among the most likely to say the will of the American people, not the Bible, should be a more important influence on U.S. laws.
And just 4 percent of Gen Nexters say people in their generation view becoming more spiritual as their most important goal in life.I think the percentage is actually higher, but many are in the closet.

yeah i believe it

[igetmikey]

Stop with this never bullshit about an agnostic president. I'm telling you guys it'll be 2032.


I'll be waiting... hopfully.

[stayforawhile]

A satan worshipper would really be a nice change of pace for America.

[perceptrons]

I'd definitely vote for a satanist over a "Huckabee-type' politician, based on nothing else.

[alice+interiors]

A lot of the Presidents have been hiding behind the Christian label knowing it would win votes.

see: Bush

[registered]

Ok I see what you mean. those 7 books are part of what started the Protestant Reformation so it seems futile to argue . I never realized that they have their own section inbetween the Old and New testament in most bibles (King James Version the most popular).

oh and trust the hypocrisy of Catholism is something I have struggled with my whole life. When I went to college it was the first non-catholic school I had ever gone to.
Please for all that is holy, never comment on religion again.

[Bunnies]

America made a big step by electing Obama, a candidate that didn't wear his religion on his sleeve and who got a lot of shit for his religious background. I think it will be a very, very, long time before we actually elect an openly non-religious person.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

Please for all that is holy, never comment on religion again.

Maybe you should stop trolling and add to the discussion instead of randoming throwing insults at me.

[fightoffyrdmns]

Here's some stats on the issue from 2007.

A survey of young people ages 18-25 by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press includes encouraging news about the growth of humanist beliefs among the so-called "Generation Next." Among the findings:
One-in-five members of "Generation Next" say they have no religious affiliation or are atheist or agnostic, nearly double the proportion of young people who said that in the late 1980s.
Nexters are among the least likely to attend church regularly: 32 percent attend at least once a week compared with 40 percent of those over age 25.
Nearly two-thirds of Nexters (63 percent) believe humans and other living things evolved over time. By contrast, Americans over the age of 40 favor Creationist accounts over evolutionary theory.
Nexters are the most tolerant of any generation on social issues such as immigration, race and homosexuality.
Nexters are among the most likely to say the will of the American people, not the Bible, should be a more important influence on U.S. laws.
And just 4 percent of Gen Nexters say people in their generation view becoming more spiritual as their most important goal in life.I think the percentage is actually higher, but many are in the closet.

I agree with the majority of my age group in this poll. I hope the trend stays this way.

[The Pharmacist]

what about asian??

buddists? hindus? (me!), janists.

[rainman]

a Jew could win currently under the right circumstances. a non-JudeoChristian would not have a chance right now and won't until the baby boomers start dying off. I'm not sure how the 9/11 generation will respond to potential prominent Muslims, but they are only a small (<2%) segment of the population. the non-religious will be a plurality by the time we all start to die.

[rainman]

A lot of the Presidents have been hiding behind the Christian label knowing it would win votes.

see: Bush

Bush is certainly an 'actual' Christian if you research the history of it. (he was born again in the 80s, iirc, when he was basically a burnout). there is a difference between falsifying something and using it for political gain, though re-reading your post, I'm not 100% sure of which you were implying.

[B-Bones]

I'm gonna go ahead and say never.

[alice+interiors]

Bush is certainly an 'actual' Christian if you research the history of it. (he was born again in the 80s, iirc, when he was basically a burnout). there is a difference between falsifying something and using it for political gain, though re-reading your post, I'm not 100% sure of which you were implying.
Personally I'm sceptical. It could well be just another front on his behalf.

[rainman]

Personally I'm sceptical. It could well be just another front on his behalf.

it's difficult to argue that - his 'rebirth' is pretty well document. I don't think he is cunning enough to falsify religious belief in the hope of being elected president 15-20 years in the future. Obama's 'belief' is far more likely to be a fabrication.

[perceptrons]

it's difficult to argue that - his 'rebirth' is pretty well document. I don't think he is cunning enough to falsify religious belief in the hope of being elected president 15-20 years in the future. Obama's 'belief' is far more likely to be a fabrication.
One can only hope!

[B-Bones]

it's difficult to argue that - his 'rebirth' is pretty well document. I don't think he is cunning enough to falsify religious belief in the hope of being elected president 15-20 years in the future. Obama's 'belief' is far more likely to be a fabrication.

One can only hope!

Ya his going to church over the last 20 years has all been just an elaborate ruse because he knew he needed to have that sort of past on his record in order to be elected the first African-American president. ::rolleyes::

[J.C.]

it's difficult to argue that - his 'rebirth' is pretty well document. I don't think he is cunning enough to falsify religious belief in the hope of being elected president 15-20 years in the future. Obama's 'belief' is far more likely to be a fabrication.

Ah, Bush's stupidity makes him an 'actual christian'.

That is funny on many many levels.