A Little Sunday Followup

[Jason Tate]

Taken from HITS (http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/):

In this morning’s New York Post, Tim Arango picked up on the hoopla between Victory Records (http://www.victoryrecords.com/) chief Tony Brummel and Warner Bros. over Taking Back Sunday (http://www.takingbacksunday.com/)’s gold certification. Headlined “A Spiteful Spat,” the article quotes Brummel: "We didn't supply anything. There was no reason to certify it. We're assuming it's the band and their new friends at Warner Bros." Brummel also acknowledges he chose not to have the album certified—despite the band's request—because he didn't want to do any favors after they bailed on him. He’s presently considering suing the RIAA, which has acknowledged the certification was based on statistics provided by Warner Bros. A source close to the matter told the Post that this may be unprecedented in the 47 years the RIAA has been certifying albums. Finally, the Post reports that Brummel—peeved that Billboard hasn't covered the story—fired off an e-mail on Tuesday, stating "I would get more takeaway from American Farmer magazine” and asked Billboard to stop including Victory albums on its charts.

and to add to that (http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news05816m01) as well:

As everyone paying attention already knows, Victory Records head Tony Brummel is mighty peeved about Taking Back Sundays’ album being certified gold by the RIAA after the band jumped from Victory to Warner Bros. The albums were sold when the band was still on Victory—and Brummel contends Warner Bros. had no right to have the RIAA certify the album. Well, the drama continues. HITS obtained the following e-mail that Brummel fired off last night, shortly before midnight, to WMG’s Lyor Cohen, with copies sent to Edgar Bronfman, Liza Joseph, Michael Fleisher, Jac Holzman, Seymour Stein and Tom Whalley:

From: Tony Brummel
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:52 PM
Subject: Now I've had it....

Warner illegally certified my Taking Back Sunday album.

Some employees of mine came home to gold TBS albums that I did not pay for or certify nor did they want.

Fucking with me and playing games is one thing. Attempting to make me look stupid is another. Desecrating the Victory brand and the years of sacrifice and hard work that many employees and artists have contributed to is not allowable.

Where is the leadership? Where are the mentors? Jac, I read your book "Follow The Music". Fuck, I read it three times. Earlier this evening, I went into my alley, pissed on it and threw it away.

The fledgling Warner Music Group has made an enemy for life.

Whalley, if you are such a record man, quit your job and go indie like me.......... Get your fucking hands dirty, you overpaid and pampered putz. Overpaying for damaged goods is not A&R.

Victory Records means something to many people around the world. It is a brand. It is something that they can count on. It has meaning.

Warner Music means nothing. It is a soulless corporate monicker tarnished by meaningless characters that raped it for their own inflated sense of self importance and ego masturbation.

I am part of something that the consumer actually cares about. Consuming product is one thing. When the consumer actually cares about the corporation that produced and helped develop the product you have something much more powerful and special.

That is what makes me different from all of you. Aside from the fact that I cannot be fired. I won't develop cataracts either as I squint at the TV praying that the scrolling ticker on Bloomberg says that the share price is up.

[mezzaninestar]

wow

[Jason Tate]

wow
And our basketball team was damn good.

[Jonathan Lally]

Taken from HITS (http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/):

In this morning’s New York Post, Tim Arango picked up on the hoopla between Victory Records (http://www.victoryrecords.com/) chief Tony Brummel and Warner Bros. over Taking Back Sunday (http://www.takingbacksunday.com/)’s gold certification. Headlined “A Spiteful Spat,” the article quotes Brummel: "We didn't supply anything. There was no reason to certify it. We're assuming it's the band and their new friends at Warner Bros." Brummel also acknowledges he chose not to have the album certified—despite the band's request—because he didn't want to do any favors after they bailed on him. He’s presently considering suing the RIAA, which has acknowledged the certification was based on statistics provided by Warner Bros. A source close to the matter told the Post that this may be unprecedented in the 47 years the RIAA has been certifying albums. Finally, the Post reports that Brummel—peeved that Billboard hasn't covered the story—fired off an e-mail on Tuesday, stating "I would get more takeaway from American Farmer magazine” and asked Billboard to stop including Victory albums on its charts.

and to add to that (http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news05816m01) as well:

As everyone paying attention already knows, Victory Records head Tony Brummel is mighty peeved about Taking Back Sundays’ album being certified gold by the RIAA after the band jumped from Victory to Warner Bros. The albums were sold when the band was still on Victory—and Brummel contends Warner Bros. had no right to have the RIAA certify the album. Well, the drama continues. HITS obtained the following e-mail that Brummel fired off last night, shortly before midnight, to WMG’s Lyor Cohen, with copies sent to Edgar Bronfman, Liza Joseph, Michael Fleisher, Jac Holzman, Seymour Stein and Tom Whalley:

From: Tony Brummel
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:52 PM
Subject: Now I've had it....

Warner illegally certified my Taking Back Sunday album.

Some employees of mine came home to gold TBS albums that I did not pay for or certify nor did they want.

Fucking with me and playing games is one thing. Attempting to make me look stupid is another. Desecrating the Victory brand and the years of sacrifice and hard work that many employees and artists have contributed to is not allowable.

Where is the leadership? Where are the mentors? Jac, I read your book "Follow The Music". Fuck, I read it three times. Earlier this evening, I went into my alley, pissed on it and threw it away.

The fledgling Warner Music Group has made an enemy for life.

Whalley, if you are such a record man, quit your job and go indie like me.......... Get your fucking hands dirty, you overpaid and pampered putz. Overpaying for damaged goods is not A&R.

Victory Records means something to many people around the world. It is a brand. It is something that they can count on. It has meaning.

Warner Music means nothing. It is a soulless corporate monicker tarnished by meaningless characters that raped it for their own inflated sense of self importance and ego masturbation.

I am part of something that the consumer actually cares about. Consuming product is one thing. When the consumer actually cares about the corporation that produced and helped develop the product you have something much more powerful and special.

That is what makes me different from all of you. Aside from the fact that I cannot be fired. I won't develop cataracts either as I squint at the TV praying that the scrolling ticker on Bloomberg says that the share price is up.

w00t.

[Jason Tate]

Here's some more:

A funny thing happened to the gold record sales certification of Where You Want To Be by Taking Back Sunday, which the RIAA authenticated on July 6. Well, it's not so funny if you're Victory Records. It seems the RIAA awarded the gold records to Warner Bros. Records. While the band has since signed to WB, the album in question is still a Victory product. Nevertheless, someone - be it the band management or Warner Bros. - paid the $350 it costs to audit sales. Victory honcho Tony Brummel was none too pleased, firing off an E-mail asserting that Victory hadn't authorized such an audit for its product. The RIAA response was an E-mail that noted, "This particular title was certified based on royalty statements," yet didn't identify who paid for the certification. MusicBiz called the RIAA to find out who asked for the audit; the group E-mailed a new statement, revealing that "Warner Bros. requested that we audit the band's royalty statements provided to them by the former label, Victory Records." In a phone call, RIAA spokesperson John Henkel termed the notion that practically anyone who ponies up $350 to the RIAA can get a gold or platinum record - as long as the band approves it - is "a fair statement." Never mind the fact that the RIAA's own Web site claims that the certification "entitles the authorized record company (our emphasis) to purchase official RIAA award plaques." Apparently, any label can become "authorized" of a different label's product...if the band says so. With that in mind, long as Morrissey, Robert Plant or Tom Petty are okay with it, Sanctuary Music can start paying for audits to recertify their earlier albums on major labels as gold or various levels of Platinum...and have them credited to Sanctuary. Who knew Sanctuary was that successful!

from musicbiz.com

This shit is crazy.

[Jacktheskipper]

Damn, he can`t be fired ... has someone ever seen a quote where it is stated he`s a nice person?!? And I think the days someone cared about victory and it had a meaning are long since gone ... once I read a quote: "I`m so old, I can even remember when victory used to be a hardcore label" ... hmmm, so true indeed ...

[00spool]

"My Taking Back Sunday album"

????

When did Tony Brummel join the band?

Usually I supoort this guy because he's put a lot of hard work into creating a label, an identity and a scene but this is a bit too far.

reeks of sour grapes to me.

Who gives a shit, move on with your life.

[Keegan]

What a bitter bitter man. Maybe if he treated his bands decent, they'd stick around. Everytime I read something about victory it's always about tony being a douche. Did anyone ever figure out if Alex from Atreyu actually wrote that letter that said something about victory hiring people to try and beat him up (not sure if I remember it correctly)? Maybe if he would sign decent bands, people would actually care.

[number1alien]

Dude needs to get his head out of the clouds.

[[Brendan]]

Where is the leadership? Where are the mentors? Jac, I read your book "Follow The Music". Fuck, I read it three times. Earlier this evening, I went into my alley, pissed on it and threw it away. Haha Tony Brummel actully made me laugh.

[TheLifeMelodic]

"My Taking Back Sunday album"

????

When did Tony Brummel join the band?

Usually I supoort this guy because he's put a lot of hard work into creating a label, an identity and a scene but this is a bit too far.

reeks of sour grapes to me.

Who gives a shit, move on with your life.couldn't of said it better.

[Bruycker]

haha what an asshole but i had to laugh with that book part , it was so funny...

']Haha Tony Brummel actully made me laugh.
haha yes that part was funny :) but i don't like him :(

[thetunks]

Well if victory wasn't going to get it certified then I guess it was damn nice of warner to do it. Id be hyped if I sold that many albums and my label wouldn't get it certified gold.

The fledgling Warner Music Group has made an enemy for life.

And I bet they're losing sleep over it....
"Oh my God the people at victory don't like me!"

[sinbad]

So does the band have any part in this, or does the labels/management take care of this crap

[marchfaster]

Warner Music means nothing. It is a soulless corporate monicker tarnished by meaningless characters that raped it for their own inflated sense of self importance and ego masturbation.

right there was my favorite part. Brummel...whose entire argument is that HE didn't approve this, and that HIS label is so much better and blah blah blah accuses warner of self importance and ego masturbation...

he makes himself into more and more of a douche as he continues.
jason where's you :digging himself deeper: smiley!?!

[charbear]

tony brumell sucks and everyone knows it too

[1Roth4]

for a professional in the music industry, that is the most unprofessional comments i have ever heard. I think a 12 year old could have handled this situation better.

i have no beef with victory, but i've never heard a good thing about this label

[jsteil]

I'm glad Tony is sticking it to Warner Brothers, and I could care less how much of an asshole he is and don't care that his bands leave him, maybe because hes an asshole, but everyone moves apart and its a business at the end of the day. It's tony's record as much as Taking Back Sundays when he puts thousands of dollars into production, mixing, recording, and advertising.

[LightUpAhead]

John Nolan and co. must be thanking their lucky stars they're almost done with Tony Brummel.

[I.O]

the bull dog never quits

[Mike Kraft]

wow

My words exactly.

[normitron]

"My Taking Back Sunday album"

????

When did Tony Brummel join the band?

Usually I supoort this guy because he's put a lot of hard work into creating a label, an identity and a scene but this is a bit too far.

reeks of sour grapes to me.

Who gives a shit, move on with your life.

Last I checked... Victory PAID for the album, so its his as much his as it is theirs.

[JohnSR]

what a douche bag "my taking back sunday album;" i hope he get hit by a bus

[splitsecond]

Brummel is such an asshole. And not the funny, entertaining type of asshole. Just straight up asshole. I for one would never sign to Victory.

[Amplifried]

Victory is a fairly shitty label if you want to play that game. I enjoy Straylight Run, but Taking Back Sunday is indeed "damaged goods." I don't think there is one band on that label other than Straylight that I can see myself remotely enjoying.

[MATT2KOOL]

Last I checked... Victory PAID for the album, so its his as much his as it is theirs.

ummm.....

As far as I know....Taking Back Sunday wrote the music & lyrics on the album...therefore making it theirs.

[Manbotisdead]

ummm.....

As far as I know....Taking Back Sunday wrote the music & lyrics on the album...therefore making it theirs.
good call son.

[Joolez82]

yes he seems like a jerk, but that email was pretty badass

[TheRunAround]

and too add to that...last I remember Warner bought out the cd
doesnt that make it theirs as much as vagrants?

eh even if im wrong...what an asshole

[CraigRise]

"raped it for their own inflated sense of self importance and ego masturbation"
>> That's so rad. I love Tony, he's so real and tells it like it is. I admire Victory's tenacity. All you shit talkers, keep talking.

[Crocodile Logic]

Victory is a fairly shitty label if you want to play that game. I enjoy Straylight Run, but Taking Back Sunday is indeed "damaged goods." I don't think there is one band on that label other than Straylight that I can see myself remotely enjoying.
between the buried and me.

[Ruggiero2oo8]

this is insane.

[mawalker33]

so did he piss on the book and THEN throw it away? because that's kinda gross picking up a piss soaked book....

[sputniksignals]

i agree with whoever said a twelve year old couldve handled the situation better. regardless of how pissed tony was and how "personal" he felt this was getting that email was beyond repulsive. if i was on that label and found out the head of it was sending childish emails like that, fuck it id drop. honestly, its business. thats like some hatemail id expect to see at Maddox, not from the head of a record label. he did NOT handle that letter well, and i could care less how many times hes sent them nicer ones or tried to handle this a peaceful way. youre just a pussy if you result to namecalling like that when youre of importance to bands like that.

[Get Fucked]

so did he piss on the book and THEN throw it away? because that's kinda gross picking up a piss soaked book....Maybe he kicked it a few feet over. God I want to be as powerful as Tony Brummel one day and have my own alley where I can piss and not get arrested teehee AND have an array of Fred Perry polo shirts AND fancy suspenders with pinstriped pants and shiny shoes ... ANYWAYS. People should stop bitching about being professional, I doubt everything is dealt with "professionally" behind the scenes in any business. Atleast he tells it like it is buuuuuuuut is still a douche.

[xallstarchrisx]

i thought tony was too busy paying to have that hawthorne heights commercial air every 5mins.

[Crocodile Logic]

i thought tony was too busy paying to have that hawthorne heights commercial air every 5mins.
ooo, burn.

[thewatcher]

"My Taking Back Sunday album"

????

When did Tony Brummel join the band?

Usually I supoort this guy because he's put a lot of hard work into creating a label, an identity and a scene but this is a bit too far.

reeks of sour grapes to me.

Who gives a shit, move on with your life.it IS his record. He licensed it, put the money on the table for it, promotoed it, shipped it. He did everything for this record. Without victory records, taking back sunday would be nowhere. The music is taking back sundays. The record is tony's. but im sure they could have dont all the things i stated before by themselves!

[jesusizzle]

it IS his record. He licensed it, payed for it, promotoed it, shipped it. He did everything for this record. Without victory records, taking back sunday would be nowhere. and if im not mistaken in their deal warner bought out the album.... so its techinally theirs weather mr. brummel wants to believe it or not, and all the "hard work" he put into it is meaningless now. between the bad business pratices and the downright stupitidy of that guy i dont see why anyone wants to sign with victory anyways... but then with warner about to go bankrupt i dont see why anyone wants to sign with them. i think they are all idiots.

and not certifying an album gold beacuse you have a vendetta with the band for "bailing out on you" is fucking childish and it really makes you and your label even worse. he needs to quit with this fake mafiosia shit and realize that this is the music business and if someone offers your band a hell of alot more money and support than you could ever give them they are going to leave you in a heartbeat. maybe if he treated his bands with respect and stoped putting "fior fans of this shitty victory screamo band, and this shitty victory screamo band, then you will love this shitty vicorty band" on all of their cds this kind of shit wouldnt happen.

[thewatcher]

Its so funny to see everyone ripping on tony for "not caring about his bands" last time i checked, Warner Music Group wasnt exactly the nicest lable around. If you want to be nice, start a lable yourself and treat everyone in the business nicely, and see how far you get.

Number two. How can you blame tony for being mad for taking back sunday leaving the label? Im nearly positive that if Alkaline trio decided they didnt want to be on Vagrant anymore and signed a contract with FBR for a lot more money, the owners of vagrant wouldnt be too happy about it. And if they got pissed and said anything about it, would the be named assholes of the year too?

lastly, Taking back sunday was doing a lot more and a lot better on victory. Good business decison fellahs.

[Stereo Therapy]

i love how he talks about indie labels like theyre the epitomy of what is right with the world... and how he says everyone cares about victory that listens to bands on it... well i cant think of a single person who would dream of caring about them now... as for me, what really gets me all buddy-buddy with victory records is everytime i hit up a slightly music related website, seeing a massive hawthorne heights pop up ad thats screaming in my face and i sure do love hawthorne heights... thanks tony.

[burnpianoisland]

what a fucking douchebag

[duffe]

An other drama episode. Someone should write a book about Tony Brummel :D

[takingback2005]

Its so funny to see everyone ripping on tony for "not caring about his bands" last time i checked, Warner Music Group wasnt exactly the nicest lable around. If you want to be nice, start a lable yourself and treat everyone in the business nicely, and see how far you get.

Number two. How can you blame tony for being mad for taking back sunday leaving the label? Im nearly positive that if Alkaline trio decided they didnt want to be on Vagrant anymore and signed a contract with FBR for a lot more money, the owners of vagrant wouldnt be too happy about it. And if they got pissed and said anything about it, would the be named assholes of the year too?

lastly, Taking back sunday was doing a lot more and a lot better on victory. Good business decison fellahs.


agree with this dude!!! look at THURSDAY FULL COLLAPSE vs WAR ALL THE TIME. look at the numbers, they gained NO new fans with WAR ALL THE TIME. Warner has no brand, victory does, people love victory for victory, I trust the people there, they work hard and know what they are talking about, they make it easier for us to be fans of music. They find good bands they love, and exploit them, its a love thing!!!! If you loved something wouldnt you do anything and everything for them.

Fuck TAKING BACK sunday. they used to be my favorite band, but they have done nothing but talk shit on my favorite label.

and you just wait, TONY BRUMMEL is then next Sug Night. Just wait for this Movie and or book to come out. It will be the best real thing ever written!!!

[Almost Crimes]

it IS his record. He licensed it, put the money on the table for it, promotoed it, shipped it. He did everything for this record. Without victory records, taking back sunday would be nowhere. The music is taking back sundays. The record is tony's. but im sure they could have dont all the things i stated before by themselves!
correction: without angel from evr, tbs would be nowhere.

tony brummel's a fuckhead. and furthermore, he tells his bands he considers victory to be a major label. makes sense, b/c it's run with about as much concern for money and power as any other major around. he can make all the promotional posters he wants about how victory represents independent music and focuses on the music itself rather than consumers. he's not fooling anyone with half a brain.

but it seems he's doing well with the 15 year old shit-for-brains that couldn't care less.

[bikescene]

Where is the leadership? Where are the mentors? Jac, I read your book "Follow The Music". Fuck, I read it three times. Earlier this evening, I went into my alley, pissed on it and threw it away.
brummel should go to his alley and piss on himself. and stay there.

[Stereo Therapy]

agree with this dude!!! look at THURSDAY FULL COLLAPSE vs WAR ALL THE TIME. look at the numbers, they gained NO new fans with WAR ALL THE TIME. Warner has no brand, victory does, people love victory for victory, I trust the people there, they work hard and know what they are talking about, they make it easier for us to be fans of music. They find good bands they love, and exploit them, its a love thing!!!! If you loved something wouldnt you do anything and everything for them.
wait, you're saying that if you loved someone, you'd exploit them?

[Saves The Night]

Taken from HITS (http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/):

In this morning’s New York Post, Tim Arango picked up on the hoopla between Victory Records (http://www.victoryrecords.com/) chief Tony Brummel and Warner Bros. over Taking Back Sunday (http://www.takingbacksunday.com/)’s gold certification. Headlined “A Spiteful Spat,” the article quotes Brummel: "We didn't supply anything. There was no reason to certify it. We're assuming it's the band and their new friends at Warner Bros." Brummel also acknowledges he chose not to have the album certified—despite the band's request—because he didn't want to do any favors after they bailed on him. He’s presently considering suing the RIAA, which has acknowledged the certification was based on statistics provided by Warner Bros. A source close to the matter told the Post that this may be unprecedented in the 47 years the RIAA has been certifying albums. Finally, the Post reports that Brummel—peeved that Billboard hasn't covered the story—fired off an e-mail on Tuesday, stating "I would get more takeaway from American Farmer magazine” and asked Billboard to stop including Victory albums on its charts.

and to add to that (http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news05816m01) as well:

As everyone paying attention already knows, Victory Records head Tony Brummel is mighty peeved about Taking Back Sundays’ album being certified gold by the RIAA after the band jumped from Victory to Warner Bros. The albums were sold when the band was still on Victory—and Brummel contends Warner Bros. had no right to have the RIAA certify the album. Well, the drama continues. HITS obtained the following e-mail that Brummel fired off last night, shortly before midnight, to WMG’s Lyor Cohen, with copies sent to Edgar Bronfman, Liza Joseph, Michael Fleisher, Jac Holzman, Seymour Stein and Tom Whalley:

From: Tony Brummel
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:52 PM
Subject: Now I've had it....

Warner illegally certified my Taking Back Sunday album.

Some employees of mine came home to gold TBS albums that I did not pay for or certify nor did they want.

Fucking with me and playing games is one thing. Attempting to make me look stupid is another. Desecrating the Victory brand and the years of sacrifice and hard work that many employees and artists have contributed to is not allowable.

Where is the leadership? Where are the mentors? Jac, I read your book "Follow The Music". Fuck, I read it three times. Earlier this evening, I went into my alley, pissed on it and threw it away.

The fledgling Warner Music Group has made an enemy for life.

Whalley, if you are such a record man, quit your job and go indie like me.......... Get your fucking hands dirty, you overpaid and pampered putz. Overpaying for damaged goods is not A&R.

Victory Records means something to many people around the world. It is a brand. It is something that they can count on. It has meaning.

Warner Music means nothing. It is a soulless corporate monicker tarnished by meaningless characters that raped it for their own inflated sense of self importance and ego masturbation.

I am part of something that the consumer actually cares about. Consuming product is one thing. When the consumer actually cares about the corporation that produced and helped develop the product you have something much more powerful and special.

That is what makes me different from all of you. Aside from the fact that I cannot be fired. I won't develop cataracts either as I squint at the TV praying that the scrolling ticker on Bloomberg says that the share price is up.
Someone actually defended this dickhead last time something related to this was posted and now I think it makes my point here. TBS wanted it certified and he wouldn't. I think it was really nice of Warner to give them what they wanted when Mr. I think Im soo scene Brummel wouldnt. OH and now its his taking back sunday album? Like he had bullshit to do with it other than slapping 4 inch stickers on the fucking front and hoping someone would give a shit about Hawthorne Heights? Victory means little to shit to people anymore, but it will be assured I will have a smile on my face when they close up shop one day and Tony Brummel is forced to drink his own piss. That my friends will be the best VICTORY of all.

[bikescene]

Its so funny to see everyone ripping on tony for "not caring about his bands" last time i checked, Warner Music Group wasnt exactly the nicest lable around. If you want to be nice, start a lable yourself and treat everyone in the business nicely, and see how far you get.
i think it's just because everyone knows the majors will fuck bands over, it's just accepted now. with the independents we expect better from them because we know, or at least assume, that they're doing it all because they love what they're doing. plenty of labels have got far by being 'nice', i'm sure they've all done something we'd disagree with at some point but at least they don't spend their lives acting like spoilt, childish pricks *cough tony brummel cough*.

That my friends will be the best VICTORY of all.
that was inspired :D

[Saves The Night]

i think it's just because everyone knows the majors will fuck bands over, it's just accepted now. with the independents we expect better from them because we know, or at least assume, that they're doing it all because they love what they're doing. plenty of labels have got far by being 'nice', i'm sure they've all done something we'd disagree with at some point but at least they don't spend their lives acting like spoilt, childish pricks *cough tony brummel cough*.


that was inspired :D
haha thanks

[ColourandShape]

Brummel needs to get over it. As far as I'm concerned, Victory can go to hell....the only band that does something for me on that label is Spitalfield. I persoanlly like Warner, big deal if they're a major labelthey have had an insane number of great releases

[XPrettyXWasteX]

i'm confused.. why didn't Brummel allow the album to be certified in the first place? i mean, i understand he was upset over TBS leaving the label but doesn't that happen kinda often in the industry? and i know he didn't want to help out TBS but why does he care if Warner does.

and i know i'd be upset if i put all that work into an album, but last time i check TBS themselves wrote the music and put a lot of their time and effort into it as well and i believe they deserve to be recognized for that (such as if they want their album to be certified or whatever). and didn't Warner pay for all that stuff when TBS switched over.. if so, doesn't that give them the right to do what they did.

i mean, i may not understand a lot of the business stuff and legality or whatever, but i do know that the way Brummel handled this situation did pretty much jack shit for him except make him seem like the biggest asshole.

[EmoErk]

taking back sunday sucks so horribly, wow... ever since john and sean took off and they got that fred guy that looks like a 55 year old and sounds like he is constipated they just suck now

[JeffPopular]

Hey at least all this shit is good publicity for TBS. I bet they are going out of their minds being stoked. But looking at the facts, I think Brummel is in the wrong. Day late and a dollar short, sucks to be him.

[panic!attheap]

i like junior varsity, spitalfield, june, and the audition

all on victory

yeah they have crappy AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH screamy bands, but they have really good bands too

[forumreader]

taking back sunday sucks so horribly, wow... ever since john and sean took off and they got that fred guy that looks like a 55 year old and sounds like he is constipated they just suck now...and this has nothing to do with the current topic! thanks for the insight!

[llwin]

:dance:

[infmoe]

What a bitter bitter man. Maybe if he treated his bands decent, they'd stick around. Everytime I read something about victory it's always about tony being a douche. Did anyone ever figure out if Alex from Atreyu actually wrote that letter that said something about victory hiring people to try and beat him up (not sure if I remember it correctly)? Maybe if he would sign decent bands, people would actually care.

I was gonna type something similar to the above but I'll just say... I second that

[udontknow!@#$]

i'm confused.. why didn't Brummel allow the album to be certified in the first place? i mean, i understand he was upset over TBS leaving the label but doesn't that happen kinda often in the industry? and i know he didn't want to help out TBS but why does he care if Warner does.

and i know i'd be upset if i put all that work into an album, but last time i check TBS themselves wrote the music and put a lot of their time and effort into it as well and i believe they deserve to be recognized for that (such as if they want their album to be certified or whatever). and didn't Warner pay for all that stuff when TBS switched over.. if so, doesn't that give them the right to do what they did.

i mean, i may not understand a lot of the business stuff and legality or whatever, but i do know that the way Brummel handled this situation did pretty much jack shit for him except make him seem like the biggest asshole.


It seems that Brummel didn't want to certify the album because of ego. He felt betrayed by TBS and didn't want to help them. Does that make sense on his part? Absolutely not. His ego is the primary reason why he wouldn't do that. And it's the primary reason that he feels the need to plaster his face on every "Victory is your label" ads.

As far as Warner goes, they do now own the rights to TBS. However, the initial albums sold to qualify for the gold certification came during their contract with Victory. So, in a sense, it was Victory's album. I think Brummel feels like Warner went over his head and took credit for the album because now it will be certified as a gold Warner disc...not Victory's. Again, it comes down to ego.

Brummel is burning bridges left and right. Soon, he'll find himself drowning in the water below with no one left to lend a hand.

[FiringPartyRule]

what a douche bag "my taking back sunday album;" i hope he get hit by a bus

unfortunately, he does own that record. even if somehow tbs magically got every single right there is to the music, that record is still victory's, they paid for it, they released it, it's all in contract. so that really sucks.

when you do alot of shit talking about everyone (for example... tony) it always comes back to bite you in the ass. It's going to be really funny when something goes horribly wrong for them.

[kidsrdumb]

nice try buddy.. how is it working for that label eh? TBS done nothing but talk shit? where? when? I've seen one thing, that 's it.. no one is gonna fall for this fake crap... you and your buddy the watcher don't have better things to do then make shit up on here and try to change people's minds?? when does it even mention a band in any of that rant? this guy is really taking credit for all of this.. i'm sure his bands love that.. this is silly, you can tell he's just trying to be a bully for not getting his way.. now he's trying to get attention for it.. isn't there more important things to be worried about??

agree with this dude!!! look at THURSDAY FULL COLLAPSE vs WAR ALL THE TIME. look at the numbers, they gained NO new fans with WAR ALL THE TIME. Warner has no brand, victory does, people love victory for victory, I trust the people there, they work hard and know what they are talking about, they make it easier for us to be fans of music. They find good bands they love, and exploit them, its a love thing!!!! If you loved something wouldnt you do anything and everything for them.

Fuck TAKING BACK sunday. they used to be my favorite band, but they have done nothing but talk shit on my favorite label.

and you just wait, TONY BRUMMEL is then next Sug Night. Just wait for this Movie and or book to come out. It will be the best real thing ever written!!!

[hieverybody]

Last I checked... Victory PAID for the album, so its his as much his as it is theirs. He may have paid for the album, but don't think he didn't get recouped for that. He got his money back from TBS and then some. Also I'm sure if Tony Brummel cared about the album going gold he could've certified it months ago. So even though I understand him being upset about not getting recognition for an album that was released on his label, he had plenty of room to do something about it before he sold over the rights to Warner Bros.

Oh and him asking that Billboard never never mention his bands ever again is just dumb. It's professional suicide and it's really screwing over the bands he's got on his label now. Even if I don't like most of them they don't deserve that.

[moonlights]

Victory Records means something to many people around the world. It is a brand. It is something that they can count on. It has meaning.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA

i can't wait until victory falls in because of tony's ego. i just hope the decent bands (the junior varsity, spitalfield, the forecast, june, etc....) get their asses off the label before then.

If you want to be nice, start a lable yourself and treat everyone in the business nicely, and see how far you get.
saddle creek??

[GAD_guy]

this thread had really made realize how much major labels and corporations have taken over "punk" music. since when did a a fucking punk rock fuck you corporate america rant become something to laugh at on a site called ABSOLUTEPUNK, for shit's sake. sure this guy has done alot of shitty things and those fucking stickers piss me off to no end and prove that he is tarnished by the marketing strategies of all the large corporations as well. and his knowing explotation of his label's independant status and fanbase is bullshit too. but in my opinion, it's always a good thing when somebody puts some corporate whores who will resort to anything to sell a fucking record in their places. it's these people who are ruining music and have been for years.
Warner Music means nothing. It is a soulless corporate monicker tarnished by meaningless characters that raped it for their own inflated sense of self importance and ego masturbation.
That is what makes me different from all of you. Aside from the fact that I cannot be fired. I won't develop cataracts either as I squint at the TV praying that the scrolling ticker on Bloomberg says that the share price is up.

these two sentances kick ass and are very true. i have a new respect for this man.

[hieverybody]

this thread had really made realize how much major labels and corporations have taken over "punk" music. since when did a a fucking punk rock fuck you corporate america rant become something to laugh at on a site called ABSOLUTEPUNK, for shit's sake. sure this guy has done alot of shitty things and those fucking stickers piss me off to no end and prove that he is tarnished by the marketing strategies of all the large corporations as well. and his knowing explotation of his label's independant status and fanbase is bullshit as well. but in my opinion, it's always a good thing when somebody puts some corporate whores who will resort to anything to sell a fucking record in their places. it's these people are ruining music and have been for years. In that comment you have made mention of the "major label whores" and how Mr. Brummel is right for putting them in their place. Yet you also mention how Brummel has fallen right into the same category as them. Doesn't that just make his rant all the more childish when he's in the same boat as the majors?

[Jason Tate]

and if im not mistaken in their deal warner bought out the album.... so its techinally theirs weather mr. brummel wants to believe it or not, and all the "hard work" he put into it is meaningless now. between the bad business pratices and the downright stupitidy of that guy i dont see why anyone wants to sign with victory anyways... but then with warner about to go bankrupt i dont see why anyone wants to sign with them. i think they are all idiots.

and not certifying an album gold beacuse you have a vendetta with the band for "bailing out on you" is fucking childish and it really makes you and your label even worse. he needs to quit with this fake mafiosia shit and realize that this is the music business and if someone offers your band a hell of alot more money and support than you could ever give them they are going to leave you in a heartbeat. maybe if he treated his bands with respect and stoped putting "fior fans of this shitty victory screamo band, and this shitty victory screamo band, then you will love this shitty vicorty band" on all of their cds this kind of shit wouldnt happen.Warner did not buy the TBS album, that's the entire situation. Tony never sold the CD to them.

He may have paid for the album, but don't think he didn't get recouped for that. He got his money back from TBS and then some. Also I'm sure if Tony Brummel cared about the album going gold he could've certified it months ago. So even though I understand him being upset about not getting recognition for an album that was released on his label, he had plenty of room to do something about it before he sold over the rights to Warner Bros.

Oh and him asking that Billboard never never mention his bands ever again is just dumb. It's professional suicide and it's really screwing over the bands he's got on his label now. Even if I don't like most of them they don't deserve that.From what I know, He never sold the rights.

[thecovertcareer]

That guy acts like a very immature and frustrated person. I bet it's not everyday Warner Music Group gets e-mails (not a call, or visit in person, buit an e-mail) bitchin' and moanin' like that. Damn Ton', chill out!

[jesusizzle]

but in my opinion, it's always a good thing when somebody puts some corporate whores who will resort to anything to sell a fucking record in their places. it's these people are ruining music and have been for years.



these two sentances kick ass and very true. i have a new respect for this man. he runs his label like a major, hes not putting any "corporate whores" in their place, he is a corporate whore. he is not doing anything that warner, sony, or universal would not do. yes its nice to see indies be able to compete with an archaic music industry that is far past its prime. but for it to be spearheaded by this guy makes everything he "stands for" look like a big joke. he is having some success right now but once he has ripped out every leg he has to stand on from acting immature and "calling out" everyone there will be nothing left of victory, and he will walk away with all the money leaving the bands to fight for them self.

Warner did not buy the TBS album, that's the entire situation. Tony never sold the CD to them.

From what I know, He never sold the rights. i heard he did sell them the rights but if he did not i think its still a stupid move for him to not certify the cd gold when he knows there is a chance someone else could, seeing how it will bring more pulbicity to the band and if used right could sell them more cds. to me it almost sounds like Warner beat him to the punch, and his ego cant handle it.

[rock_princess]

agree with this dude!!! look at THURSDAY FULL COLLAPSE vs WAR ALL THE TIME. look at the numbers, they gained NO new fans with WAR ALL THE TIME. Warner has no brand, victory does, people love victory for victory, I trust the people there, they work hard and know what they are talking about, they make it easier for us to be fans of music. They find good bands they love, and exploit them, its a love thing!!!! If you loved something wouldnt you do anything and everything for them.

Fuck TAKING BACK sunday. they used to be my favorite band, but they have done nothing but talk shit on my favorite label.

and you just wait, TONY BRUMMEL is then next Sug Night. Just wait for this Movie and or book to come out. It will be the best real thing ever written!!!
Sorry, had to chime in. Tony deliberately held onto that contract and refused to let them go... pretty much closing the window for Thursday before the full force of their momentum hit. He did it intentionally - to screw them for their "betrayal" the same way he did it with Hatebreed...

Here are the sales:
04/10/01 Full Collapse 345,255
09/16/03
FULL COLLAPSE THURSDAY VIT A 04/10/01 345255 (http://aud.soundscan.com/getupc/GETUPC.EXE?artist=THURSDAY&title=FULL+COLLAPSE&label=VIT&state=1&config=1&ssupc=017400000145&format=AC&c=Album&flag=01000000000000011000)
WAR ALL THE TIME THURSDAY ISL A 09/16/03 337610 (http://aud.soundscan.com/getupc/GETUPC.EXE?artist=THURSDAY&title=WAR+ALL+THE+TIME&label=ISL&state=1&config=1&ssupc=731410029302&format=AC&c=Album&flag=01000000000000001000)

[number1alien]

agree with this dude!!! look at THURSDAY FULL COLLAPSE vs WAR ALL THE TIME. look at the numbers, they gained NO new fans with WAR ALL THE TIME. Warner has no brand, victory does, people love victory for victory, I trust the people there, they work hard and know what they are talking about, they make it easier for us to be fans of music. They find good bands they love, and exploit them, its a love thing!!!! If you loved something wouldnt you do anything and everything for them.

Fuck TAKING BACK sunday. they used to be my favorite band, but they have done nothing but talk shit on my favorite label.

and you just wait, TONY BRUMMEL is then next Sug Night. Just wait for this Movie and or book to come out. It will be the best real thing ever written!!!

This is, hands down, the most absurd post I have ever seen on this site. Not liking your favourite band anymore because they "talked shit" about a company? Pathetic.

[forumreader]

If anything, Tony Brummel should be thanking TBS. Without them, Victory would hardly be a blip on the radar. Sure, it sucks for him that they left, but without the success they brought the label he wouldn't be able to stand where he is and attempt to talk down on every "sellout" industryperson.

[pnkgrl182]

forum reader:
you must be about 16. Hatebreed? earth crisis? warzone? even thursday for christs sake.

Not saying they would be as huge as they are now with out tbs...but it definenetly would have been a blip on the rader.

fuck there are books written about music before screamo that mention victories contribution to the scene.

[Jason Tate]

If anything, Tony Brummel should be thanking TBS. Without them, Victory would hardly be a blip on the radar. Sure, it sucks for him that they left, but without the success they brought the label he wouldn't be able to stand where he is and attempt to talk down on every "sellout" industryperson.
The counter-argument could be said as well.

[FiringPartyRule]

Oh and him asking that Billboard never never mention his bands ever again is just dumb. It's professional suicide and it's really screwing over the bands he's got on his label now. Even if I don't like most of them they don't deserve that.
he can't be serious about doing that, because it's proibably the worst move he's made since he signed Aiden.

hopefully he's not stupid enough to really do that, next thing you know he'll tell best buy they're not allowed to sell his records.

[savesthedave28]

I hope that good bands will learn form this lesson and not sign to Victory. Any label that keeps a gold record from it's band is bullshit. Taking Back Sunday toured their ass off for Victory and made Tony a very rich man. He should appreciate it and accept the fact that this is a business and if a band has a chance to move on to something bigger and better, they should.

[FiringPartyRule]

forum reader:
you must be about 16. Hatebreed? earth crisis? warzone? even thursday for christs sake.

Not saying they would be as huge as they are now with out tbs...but it definenetly would have been a blip on the rader.

fuck there are books written about music before screamo that mention victories contribution to the scene.
gotta love the earth crisis drop.
vegan sxe hardcore ruled hahaha

who remembers Victory t-shirts that used to say "Drinking Sucks" and "Meat Is For Pussies?"

[wereofftherails]

fucking idiot

[kidsrdumb]

Money is one thing but what if the band left becuase this guy is such a dickhead?? doesn't he prove that any chance he gets?// isn't that what thursday was basically saying when that all went down?? And im also confused, no one is trying to take credit away from victory for whereyou want to be.. how woudl anyone even know warner did anything if tony didn't go ranting to the press about it?? warner isn't mentioning anything about that record anyuwhere..

I hope that good bands will learn form this lesson and not sign to Victory. Any label that keeps a gold record from it's band is bullshit. Taking Back Sunday toured their ass off for Victory and made Tony a very rich man. He should appreciate it and accept the fact that this is a business and if a band has a chance to move on to something bigger and better, they should.

[emocorewhore]

TBS were dumb as hell to switch to Warner Bros. They definitely won't break gold with their next CD after all this bull shit so I think the credit should be given to Victory for the gold status on the old cd. Seems like tbs basically spit in Tony's face by leaving the label so Tony's spitting back. I respect that he's standing up for himself and for his company. Whatever you can do to survive in the industry..

[Stereo Therapy]

TBS were dumb as hell to switch to Warner Bros. They definitely won't break gold with their next CD after all this bull shit so I think the credit should be given to Victory for the gold status on the old cd. Seems like tbs basically spit in Tony's face by leaving the label so Tony's spitting back. I respect that he's standing up for himself and for his company. Whatever you can do to survive in the industry..
did i misunderstand or did you just say they wont go gold now that theyre on a major because they got in a fight with their ex-label owner? if anything this will gain them more publicity. i dont get why laving a label is spitting in the face either, its business for fucks sake and tbs have a massive fan base that really warrants a major label backing.

[Tom Da Bomb]

YES! Jason Tate you are the man, this is great investigating reporting. Thank you so much for bringing this article out into the publics eye. Honestly this is the exact reason I vist this site, for the most current and top counter culture news!

My opinion on the matter of Victory VS. Warner Bros. is this:

Warner Bros. is a huge faceless corporation, and the majority of resonable people will agree.

Victory is an indie lable, but still a corporation non the less. IF anything, Tony should be very proud he had a major hand in getting TBS where they are today, and not be discouraged just because TBS moved to Warner Bros. HE SAW IT COMING. and for TBS, thats just "where they want to be"

Straylight Run will be the next to move, hell im even surprised that they had signed onto Victory in the first place. My theroy is that when John Nolan packed up and left TBS he was in breach of contract with Victory. TBS had a 2 album deal with victory, and i bet you a million scene points Victory made Straylight sign to them for another 2 album deal. To quote Straylight Run:

"So I focused on what,
I've been promised,
Then they tore us open,
They bled us dry of our dignity and...
Maybe we could all retain a bit of ourselves,
Remember who we were and keep on moving,
Put things in perspective,
Try and learn a lesson,
It's not life or death,
It's only business!"

Tom OUT

[kidsrdumb]

Warner Bros. is a huge faceless corporation, and the majority of resonable people will agree.


Tom OUT[/size]

Yeah, Bugs who?? and by the way who cares? t hey ahve green day, linkin park, my chem.. they don't need to beat their chest like a crazy gorilla and remind us how good they are.. Think about this.. major labels don't try to make their names big.. they work on their getting publicity for the bands.. some indie lables try and brand their label more than the bands... victory is the best example of this.. watch all the commercials, it fucking says the label first.. even HH posted that since their label is arleayd talking about stuff about them they may as well post it.. that press release that i read here says the lable name before the band name every time.. evern notice on the victory site how the store is the first thing on there even before bands??? don't even pretend to be fooled that that indie is any better or different than a major.. this guy is just being a sore loser..

[moonlights]

he runs his label like a major, hes not putting any "corporate whores" in their place, he is a corporate whore. he is not doing anything that warner, sony, or universal would not do. yes its nice to see indies be able to compete with an archaic music industry that is far past its prime. but for it to be spearheaded by this guy makes everything he "stands for" look like a big joke.
this is what i was going to say but you beat me to it.

[forumreader]

The counter-argument could be said as well.True, it could, but I just don't understand his constant hate for this band, when they have brought him so much success. There must be quite a bit in the background the public doesn't know about, or he really is just that arrogant.


forum reader:
you must be about 16. Hatebreed? earth crisis? warzone? even thursday for christs sake.

Not saying they would be as huge as they are now with out tbs...but it definenetly would have been a blip on the rader.

fuck there are books written about music before screamo that mention victories contribution to the scene.16? Ha, this coming from a girl with a blink182 screename and 2004 join date. Most of us were doing that in '98 over ICQ. Sure, the old hardcore bands bring Victory street and indie cred, but TBS is what fills the moneybin. Do you not remember what late 2001-early 2003 was like? No one would shut the fuck up about TBS, and it brought a ton more listeners in to that style of music. Don't get me wrong, Hatebreed and Earth Crisis are influential as well, but there is a reason labels overloaded on TBS clones after Tell All Your Friends hit big. If anything, not having TBS on the label would mean we never would have saw those sweet "DO YOU LIKE TAKING BACK SUNDAY! THEN YOU WILL LOVE HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS!!!!!1111!!" album cover stickers. ;)

[FalloutGuy]

Well all I know is...as long as Between The Buried And Me is there. Victory is my fucking label. :thumbsup:

[manicmark]

you guys can shit talk all you want. i personally think victory is a much better label then warner bro.

i really cant believe anyone would support warner bro. i guess they have good marketing.

Yeah, Bugs who?? and by the way who cares? t hey ahve green day, linkin park, my chem.. they don't need to beat their chest like a crazy gorilla and remind us how good they are.. Think about this.. major labels don't try to make their names big.. they work on their getting publicity for the bands.. some indie lables try and brand their label more than the bands... victory is the best example of this.. watch all the commercials, it fucking says the label first.. even HH posted that since their label is arleayd talking about stuff about them they may as well post it.. that press release that i read here says the lable name before the band name every time.. evern notice on the victory site how the store is the first thing on there even before bands??? don't even pretend to be fooled that that indie is any better or different than a major.. this guy is just being a sore loser..

stop talking, you are already making yourself sound like an idiot.

[moonlights]

you guys can shit talk all you want. i personally think victory is a much better label then warner bro.

i really cant believe anyone would support warner bro. i guess they have good marketing.



stop talking, you are already making yourself sound like an idiot.
i think you missed the point. nobody is really supporting them...everyone is just hating on victory (who deserves it). basically, if you forced me to pick between the two i'd pick warner bros, but if there were other options involved i wouldn't pick victory or warner.