Most musical modern band?

[Taniam]

Most rock bands push musicality by the wayside and just make what sound fun, and that is not a bad thing. but there are some bands today that take the time to bring an heir of musicality and technical ability into their music...what bands do you think accomplish that and why?...me and my friends personally think yellowcard and before you shoot me down here me out...not only do they use a violin in all their songs, but the way they layer parts and their ability to transfer the melody from voice to instruments make them musical

[thesafeword]

Really? Out of all of the bands currently making music, you pick Yellowcard to be the most musical?

[Taniam]

Really? Out of all of the bands currently making music, you pick Yellowcard to be the most musical?


i've not really searched to much but out of the bands i normally listen to yeah...the album lights and sounds is like extremely musical in my opinion

[dennybear]

Between The Buried And Me does a pretty good job

[xJesusFreakx]

There are no words to fully describe what is wrong with that post.

Are you questioning the musicalness of Yellowcard?

[micahistheballs]

Musicanity

[humanafterall]

What does that even mean? Most musical modern band. haha.

[VampiresRevenge]

What does that even mean? Most musical modern band. haha.
That's a lot of "m" words.

[thesafeword]

i've not really searched to much but out of the bands i normally listen to yeah...the album lights and sounds is like extremely musical in my opinion
1. Listen to more music.
2. Having an asian guy play an electric violin does not make you the most musical band, or however you put it, today.

[Taniam]

...i like illiterations

[handlikesecret]

http://9.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/4/6/bustedtees.9776b334315d9106bddf3036 a7c6d207.gif

[ohheroine]

Between The Buried And Me does a pretty good job


exactly what i was going to say

[Chromefox]

...i like illiterations :lol:

[VampiresRevenge]

...i like illiterations
*alliterations

[Taniam]

*alliterations



darn i am bested again by my lack of ability to type...

[Chromefox]

*alliterations Nono, I think he does like "illiterations". He certainly demonstrates them.

[VampiresRevenge]

darn i am bested again by my lack of ability to type...
Yep.
Nono, I think he does like "illiterations". He certainly demonstrates them.
Yeah, haha.

[handlikesecret]

Nono, I think he does like "illiterations". He certainly demonstrates them.
:lol:

[xJesusFreakx]

While there is no doubting the musicality of the musical collective known as Yellowcard I feel the music of other music acts features more musical music than their music.

I tried to come up with a witty continuation of this conversation, but I can't.

/thread

[Taniam]

i hate this website i really do...but not really...it is a conditional hate....

[dennybear]

I see by saying "/thread" you have the ability to determine when a thread is to be locked. You, sir, are a slut.

[thesafeword]

i hate this website i really do...but not really...it is a conditional hate....
Maybe you shouldn't post things like 'Yellowcard is the most musical modern band'

[xJesusFreakx]

I see by saying "/thread" you have the ability to determine when a thread is to be locked. You, sir, are a slut.

Pretty much. G-d revealed to me in a vision that this thread should be locked now. I'm glad you understand that.

[dennybear]

God does not exist! Suck on that!

[thesafeword]

Prove to me that he isn't real.

[xJesusFreakx]

God does not exist! Suck on that!

Oh, I'm sorry... The flying spaghetti monster actually showed me the vision. And then I ate him.

[dennybear]

Prove to me that he isn't real.

How about we make a little deal? I'll prove to you he doesn't exist right after you prove to me that he does! Too bad you can't, maybe the man looking at everything you do from the clouds could show himself for me, just once, to make me a believer? Just pray for him to show himself to me. That should work. Wait, praying doesn't do anything, does it? That sucks.

[xJesusFreakx]

How about we make a little deal? I'll prove to you he doesn't exist right after you prove to me that he does! Too bad you can't, maybe the man looking at everything you do from the clouds could show himself for me, just once, to make me a believer? Just pray for him to show himself to me. That should work. Wait, praying doesn't do anything, does it? That sucks.

Are you dead serious about this argument? You're apparently rather new to this whole internet experience.

[thesafeword]

How about we make a little deal? I'll prove to you he doesn't exist right after you prove to me that he does! Too bad you can't, maybe the man looking at everything you do from the clouds could show himself for me, just once, to make me a believer? Just pray for him to show himself to me. That should work. Wait, praying doesn't do anything, does it? That sucks.
It's all about believing, I don't need physical evidence to know that God is with me and here to help me. You know, Jesus didn't die for our sins for nothing, he died for a God that is here for us. I don't need any of your bullshit about proof and science and clouds to know that I feel God down in my heart. He is real.
Burden of proof is always on whomever is seeking to prove that something DOES exist as it is a logical impossibility to prove something doesn't exist.
Fine, prove that his absence exists.

[dennybear]

This is hilarious. You honestly sit there trying to ask us to prove to you something that you can't prove to us. You believe in God, that's good for you buddy. God is in your head. Like an imaginary friend. You can't prove to me he is real and I can not prove he isn't. And xJesusFreakx, what you said I have nothing against since it was in good fun... but this other guy is being a pain.

[Regards]

This is hilarious. You honestly sit there trying to ask us to prove to you something that you can't prove to us. You believe in God, that's good for you buddy. God is in your head. Like an imaginary friend. You can't prove to me he is real and I can not prove he isn't. And xJesusFreakx, what you said I have nothing against since it was in good fun... but this other guy is being a pain.
There is plenty to prove God is real. Its unfortunate that even if God parted the clouds some people would still say it was just our imagination, or something else.

[xJesusFreakx]

http://www.aerthyr.net/images/facepalm2.jpg

[dennybear]

There is plenty to prove God is real. Its unfortunate that even if God parted the clouds some people would still say it was just our imagination, or something else.

Seriously? I'll make it as simple as possible.

Nothing you or anyone says will ever prove to me there is a God. I get it, you think there's someone listening to everything you have to say, and that's good for you. I, however, have enough common sense not to believe something that's not there. Seeing is believing. What you are doing is believing something you imagine as being reality.

[Regards]

Such as?



No we wouldn't, how humorously speculative. It's unfortunate God can disappear for two thousand years and not be seen at all for 3 billion and some people still think he's there.
I'm not going to get into a theological debate with you on here.

[checkered.stars]

I don't understand why people get all defensive and angry when someone brings up God or whatever. I'm not religious or anything, but does it really matter what other people believe in?

[thesafeword]

This is hilarious. You honestly sit there trying to ask us to prove to you something that you can't prove to us. You believe in God, that's good for you buddy. God is in your head. Like an imaginary friend. You can't prove to me he is real and I can not prove he isn't. And xJesusFreakx, what you said I have nothing against since it was in good fun... but this other guy is being a pain.
God's not in my head, he's in my heart.
There is plenty to prove God is real. Its unfortunate that even if God parted the clouds some people would still say it was just our imagination, or something else.
That's what we get for electing a not only Democratic, but black, president.
lol.



Apparently you didn't understand a word of what I said.
I'm not laughing at your religious views, Jesus was real, the son of Christ. Prove that wrong you liberal piece of shit.

[dennybear]

I propose you God-lovers just stop talking about something you can't prove and we will all stop proving your logic wrong. I love you babyboy.

[Regards]

You never do, you don't want your beliefs challenged.
I realize that I'm not prepared, and what I say may be damaging and ignorant. I have plenty of friends around me in real life whom I get my beliefs challenged from everyday.

[Dr. Acula]

That's what we get for electing a not only Democratic, but black, president.

Love thy neighbor right? You are a fucking idiot. Go away. K. THANKS.

[checkered.stars]

That's what we get for electing a not only Democratic, but black, president.

What do you mean by that?

[Regards]

God's not in my head, he's in my heart.

That's what we get for electing a not only Democratic, but black, president.

I'm not laughing at your religious views, Jesus was real, the son of Christ. Prove that wrong you liberal piece of shit.
I'm not sure if you were mocking me or something with the president thing, but if you were its pretty sad how heavily you are leaning on stereotypes.

[thesafeword]

I'm coming clean, infractions make it hard to play conservative Christian.

[xJesusFreakx]

God's not in my head, he's in my heart.

That's what we get for electing a not only Democratic, but black, president.

I'm not laughing at your religious views, Jesus was real, the son of Christ. Prove that wrong you liberal piece of shit.

I'm not politically liberal, and I'm a Christian, and I'm confused (and almost offended) by this post.

[xJesusFreakx]

I'm coming clean, infractions make it hard to play conservative Christian.

Ok, a great weight is lifted from my heart, knowing you were kidding. (Should have guessed, seeing how absurd it was, lol.)

[Regards]

Well you're honest that's for sure. How can you be so sure God is real (and that he is the Christian God) if you don't understand the case of non believers and the other world religions?
The fact that the Bible was written in a span of over 2,000 years, from 40 different authors, yet still is solid, is one reason. There are also plenty of apologetics that back God's mark on this Earth. History backs with it as well. Also it just all seems too good that we're all on this Earth with absolutely no purpose. I can't buy into that, nor can I buy into moral relativity. I was a bit all over the place, but I hope that helps a bit.

[dennybear]

Looks like he's said there was something wrong with electing a Democrat as president. Also saying that there is something wrong with the president being African-American.

[wesgemm08]

God's not in my head, he's in my heart.

That's what we get for electing a not only Democratic, but black, president.

I'm not laughing at your religious views, Jesus was real, the son of Christ. Prove that wrong you liberal piece of shit.

+25

[dennybear]

Can anyone on this website prove Jesus was the son of God? Rhetorical question.

[xJesusFreakx]

Oh, and by the way, how does a thread go from preaching Yellowcard as the most musically musical source of music to a cliche online debate about G-d's existence? Sadly, I inadvertently had a role in this. :/

[Regards]

Oh, and by the way, how does a thread go from preaching Yellowcard as the most musically musical source of music to a cliche online debate about G-d's existence? Sadly, I inadvertently had a role in this. :/
What's with using the - for the o? mewithoutYou uses that in their lyric booklet, and I feel as thought I'm left out of something here.

[dennybear]

Haha, Yellowcard...

[Dr. Acula]

What's with using the - for the o? mewithoutYou uses that in their lyric booklet, and I feel as thought I'm left out of something here.

I believe it's a Jewish thing...I forget the exact explanation.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Most rock bands push musicality by the wayside and just make what sound fun, and that is not a bad thing. but there are some bands today that take the time to bring an heir of musicality and technical ability into their music...what bands do you think accomplish that and why?...me and my friends personally think yellowcard and before you shoot me down here me out...not only do they use a violin in all their songs, but the way they layer parts and their ability to transfer the melody from voice to instruments make them musical

Hahah Hey man, I see what you are trying to say, but it is a tad silly the way you worded it and as far as your example, well we have a few things to work on. I'm not the most fluent with bands, their genres, etc. which seems to be a major focus musically now. While a majority of people here will just criticize you, just try to pick them apart as jokes. If you can't laugh at yourself then you have problems. Don't hate this site, especially this forum. It will help you expand your tastes so you can find a more "musical" band to listen to.

I don't claim to be the smartest person here musically, but I think I know a decent bit more than some of the dipshits on this site who will claim to know everything about music; when they don't even know how to spell out a C major scale. If you are looking for technicality in music, the most technical bands today have to bespeed metal bands, but you have to realize technacality is not the be all and end all to music. I approach life and everything in it by finding a middle ground. Music is an art form. Picaso painted like a fucking retarded kid on opiates, but the emotion he put into his work really set him apart.

Music is a cluster fuck of things: technacality, emotion, layering, theory, art, etc. No one thing should ever be a deciding factor. However listening to a band like All Time Low and considering them musical geniuses, while debatable (hardly), is probably wrong, but people still enjoy them. In a sense they are genius at the ability to draw on mainstream relatability. If you listen to Bach, Mozart, etc. they were musical geniuses in a music theory sense. Two opposite spectrums. Which one is right? Who knows. Listen to what moves you and helps you. Start listening to music as an art and less of an entertainment and I promise you that eventually you will understand music better. I'm in an alternative band, I've played in Jazz band, Stage band, Pep band, pretty much everything except marching band, shit I've even jammed with my drummer's dad's classic rock cover band. Music is what I do, nothing is ever truly better in any sense than anything else. Someone can fart into a microphone and if they call it art and people love it, then shit we have a new genre, I'll call it fartxcore. Music is not empircal, so don't worry.

As far as some technical bands to start with:


Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Radiohead
Dredg
Circle Takes the Square
Michaelangelo
Dragonfore(terrible to me, but technical as fuck)
Circa Survive
Four Year Strong
Fugazi
Rites of Spring
Saetia
Immortal Technique
Jedi Mind Tricks

Keep in mind I don't enjoy some of these bands, but these are some technical and musically sound bands. Most people will jump on my ass about Four Year Strong or Circa Survive, but half of these musictards have no idea what the fuck they are saying. They will immediately critique your tastes for being similar or a rip off of an original artist, but who fucking cares right? Music is music and it's not always about one thing. It's a broad spectrum of shit.

[Regards]

I believe it's a Jewish thing...I forget the exact explanation.
Hmm, that's interesting. Probably something hebrew I'm guessing? I'll have to look into it. Happy to see you went back to the old avatar by the way. Haha, and small too.

[xJesusFreakx]

What's with using the - for the o? mewithoutYou uses that in their lyric booklet, and I feel as thought I'm left out of something here.

Jewish custom, sign of reverence to G-d. I'm not Jewish, but I liked what it represented, so I started doing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Jewish custom, sign of reverence to G-d. I'm not Jewish, but I liked what it represented, so I started doing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

He is right, Jews think it's disrespectful to address God as something we can identify clearly, or at least this is what I was told in Catholic school.

Fucking religion.

[Regards]

Jewish custom, sign of reverence to G-d. I'm not Jewish, but I liked what it represented, so I started doing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
YHWH. The unpronounceable name. Really cool stuff, thanks man.

[Dr. Acula]

Hmm, that's interesting. Probably something hebrew I'm guessing? I'll have to look into it. Happy to see you went back to the old avatar by the way. Haha, and small too.

From wiki:
Many people in the Jewish faith refrain from naming the creator. Therefore when they write that word or other names for him, they omit some of the letters as a sign of respect and reverence.

And thanks, haha. I cant get it to load any bigger, LAME.

[Regards]

The same can be said of countless works. I study ancient history and there must be thousands upon thousands of ancient sources which remain in tact.



That isn't relevant. Plenty learned people think God does not exist. Plenty learned people think he exists in a different form to your interpretation of God.



I'd say history doesn't back it at all. The universe is 3.5 billion years old yet God created it all for our benefit and only planted us here for the last 120,000 in addition to entering on a highly eloborate process to being us here. How does history back God's existance?



Something having negative consequences doesn't make it false.
As I said before, I'm not going to get into it with you. I answered the question you were looking for, and hopefully with a lot more study I will be able to sit it out with you in the future.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

As I said before, I'm not going to get into it with you. I answered the question you were looking for, and hopefully with a lot more study I will be able to sit it out with you in the future.

I love you man, but I have to take it with Ben on this one.

Why do I always come back to AP to have it out in a religious debate somehow being involved with lunchforthesky

[Regards]

I love you man, but I have to take it with Ben on this one.

Why do I always come back to AP to have it out in a religious debate somehow being involved with lunchforthesky
Haha, it's all good Karl. I won't hate on you for what you believe, but that also doesn't mean that I still think its off from the truth.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

I'm coming clean, infractions make it hard to play conservative Christian.

You scared the shit out of me. I was going to say I actually enjoyed you at one time. :phew:

[Dr. Acula]

There we go. I like it.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Haha, it's all good Karl. I won't hate on you for what you believe, but that also doesn't mean that I still think its off from the truth.

Alright man, just if you're right, put in a good word with Peter for me when this is all over. I'm just an ignorant mortal.

And if I'm right... IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!! :sad:

[Regards]

There we go. I like it.
And that's a great segue from me to go to bed. Haha, righteous avatar.

[Regards]

Alright man, just if you're right, put in a good word with Peter for me when this is all over. I'm just an ignorant mortal.

And if I'm right... IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!! :sad:
lol, how about I just bypass the middle man? Catholics and their silly doctrines haha.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

lol, how about I just bypass the middle man? Catholics and their silly doctrines haha.

Good good, hahah I have a terrible habit of generalizing all Christians as Catholics because I was in a strict Catholic environment for four long terrible years.

[Chris Fallon]

The fact that the Bible was written in a span of over 2,000 years, from 40 different authors, yet still is solid, is one reason. There are also plenty of apologetics that back God's mark on this Earth. History backs with it as well. Also it just all seems too good that we're all on this Earth with absolutely no purpose. I can't buy into that, nor can I buy into moral relativity. I was a bit all over the place, but I hope that helps a bit.
I'm Agnostic, but I respect your viewpoints -- yet I really fail to see how this is solid proof of any kind. This sounds the same thing I've heard from people before -- you don't really provide any critical evidence, like you said earlier.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but I do agree with Ben on this issue. Saying there's proof doesn't prove anything -- we've all been fed this crap for years, and frankly, I want to see some groundbreaking, rock-solid evidence on this topic. Don't get me wrong -- I have no judgments, I just never hear anyone say anything convincing. Seems like it's too subjective most of the time.

[MyWorldEntire]

While there is no doubting the musicality of the musical collective known as Yellowcard I feel the music of other music acts features more musical music than their music.

That's going in my signature.

[recall reality]

No band is more musical than Jesus was, the bible is full of illiterations demonstrating this fact.

[Regards]

I'm Agnostic, but I respect your viewpoints -- yet I really fail to see how this is solid proof of any kind. This sounds the same thing I've heard from people before -- you don't really provide any critical evidence, like you said earlier.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but I do agree with Ben on this issue. Saying there's proof doesn't prove anything -- we've all been fed this crap for years, and frankly, I want to see some groundbreaking, rock-solid evidence on this topic. Don't get me wrong -- I have no judgments, I just never hear anyone say anything convincing. Seems like it's too subjective most of the time.
It's cool man. I feel like Christianity, and the Bible spell out the reasons for that pretty well, but as soon as I bring in the faith card everyone goes up in arms. Like I said before, I don't want to start some huge theological debate, if I did I would hop over to the politics forum.

[igetmikey]

Isles And Glaciers once it is offically released, just wait or look it up to find the demos in google.

[fadedmemories]

http://9.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/4/6/bustedtees.9776b334315d9106bddf3036 a7c6d207.gif
lol

[Bunnies]

I'd say BTBAM are up there. Often my favorite parts of their songs are ones with no lyrics. They really are gifted with their instruments.

[Use me!]

I find it amazing that McCain lost the election. All of the Christians were praying for him.

[Use me!]

I find it amazing that McCain lost the election. All of the Christians were praying for him.

Oops. I thought the third page was the latest one =/.

Noob.

[Regards]

I find it amazing that McCain lost the election. All of the Christians were praying for him.
Oh, more sarcastic comments ripping on what people believe in. That's productive.

[llwilliamsll]

Something having negative consequences doesn't make it false.
Tell that to the people who question God's existence based on the reason of there being pain and other negative aspects in human life.

[Use me!]

Oh, more sarcastic comments ripping on what people believe in. That's productive.
Well, it's better than going to war and killing thousands over holy turf. Perhaps when the religious people can keep their hands to themselves, I won't feel inclined to make sarcastic comments encouraging them to critically think.

[Regards]

Well, it's better than going to war and killing thousands over holy turf. Perhaps when the religious people can keep their hands to themselves, I won't feel inclined to make sarcastic comments encouraging them to critically think.
lol. Terrible, terrible reasoning. Throw a group of people into the fire because of the bad choices other people have made? I know, I'm white too, would you like to throw something about racism in there as well?

[EndSerenading]

four year strong, while a guilty pleasure of mine at times, is not remotely "musical" or technical. Its fun pop that I admit to enjoying from time to time but musicianship, technical, or great songwriting are terms that I would never apply to them. Also, simply having non-traditional rock band instruments (ie yellowcard) doesnt make you any more "musical". Being Musical is about what you write and play, not what instruments you play with. I can add a violin, sax, a vocoder, and a sitar to my band and write music that is not technical or musical at all.

My contributions?

Radiohead
The Mars Volta
Opeth
Between the Buried and Me
Sigur Ros
Dillinger Escape Plan
Godspeed You! Black Emperor

and others but I am too lazy to list ha.

Keep in mind that, as someone pretty well versed in music theory and having played instruments for 10+ years, I also love plenty of bands that I dont consider "musical" or "technical" (ie minor threat, old weezer, old foo fighters, get up kids etc.). So, while I do recognize technicality and musicianship etc. and enjoy it, it is not the only thing required for me to enjoy a band.

And, as a closing, I still think Queen is probably the most musical rock related band I've ever heard.

[Use me!]

lol. Terrible, terrible reasoning. Throw a group of people into the fire because of the bad choices other people have made? I know, I'm white too, would you like to throw something about racism in there as well?
Christians tell me that I am going to burn in hell for my beliefs and they aren't even being sarcastic. Don't even play that card. How is that even terrible reasoning? People are dying all of the time because of religion.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't believe in God. I'm deist. I believe in a higher force. I think that people need to develop an individualistic world view instead of a collectivist one. I think people need to be opened to all possibilities because there is no proof for anything. When somebody's proofless assumptions are forced upon a people and used to go to war against other proofless assumptions, it's time for people to speak out against it. Or would you like everybody to conform to fear, guilt, and violence?

[Use me!]

How is deism anymore logical than theism?
Deism is theistic. So that question=fail.

Deism is pretty much an anti-religion. You can be spiritual and not religious. Basically, I don't believe in dogma because I feel that it is corrupt. Dogma is basically a way to control a collective group of people through fear. I am also opened to the fact that there might not be a God. So in this sense, I am a weak deist with agnostic undertones. Or something like that. Similarly, I am opened to the fact that Christianity could actually be truthful. I can't prove otherwise. But Christianity has killed millions of people. That is a fact with proof; therefore, I feel that I should fight against it.

[llwilliamsll]

Actually that makes sense with regards to the Christian God, as the Bible claims he is all loving.
Yeah, I figured that question/statement would come up. My question is, why is it that some people will use the Bible literally word for word when arguing while at the same time saying Christians shouldn't take the Bible literally. I'm not saying that's what you do since I don't know you really.

It also brings up the question why did God create the universe purely to test us? Especially seen as he already knows the outcome.
Is that question related to most people's outlook. If that's the case then I believe there was more than that as far as the reason God created the universe. Then again, I'm still in the process of figuring out what I actually believe in.

[EndSerenading]

lol guess the thread has taken a severe change of course since the OP

[Bunnies]

lol guess the thread has taken a severe change of course since the OP


Yeah, it did. You made an excellent post though earlier. All great bands you mentioned... especially dep and btbam.

The thread is about religious shit now, though. Which basically means /thread.

[llwilliamsll]

I personally think that if the Bible is the word, whether written or inspired, of the God it claims to speak for then it is an absurd act of hybris for a mortal to pick and choose relevant sections. Those that do that are not worshipping God, they are worshipping themselves and their chosen morality and ascribing divinity to it as justification to believe what they have believed regardless.



Well we assume there is an explanation if God exists, because the pieces just don't fit as they are, but what that explanation is is anyone's guess.
I guess I just see it as more inspired by him, although the Bible does say written by him (through people). None the less, if you look at the history aspect, the "Word" of God went through spoken word at first until it was finally written down, and then translated through countless languages. I just don't see it being the same as what it originally attended to say. Who knows. Being that it is God's word, I guess you would think he made sure that through all of that, it came out as what he wanted it to say.

[kearn1tm]

The fact that the Bible was written in a span of over 2,000 years, from 40 different authors, yet still is solid, is one reason.

Hermeneutics says you're wrong.

[Yes. And?]

What?

[Taniam]

i was hoping this thread would be closed by now lol

[Yes. And?]

Nah.

[Wolf I Am!]

anathallo! Explosions in the sky! Annuals!

[IWasaCamera]

No! No! No!

[Use me!]

No deism is deistic. It involves (unfounded) belief is an in-active creator. Theism is the same with an active creator.



No not really, as not all religions are comparable.



Then you are believing even more in the unfounded than a standard deist.



Not all religions are the same and you still follow societies dogma anyway so this is an inane comment.



No, Dogma is a set of rules which people VOLUNTARILY suscribe to and live their life by.



Since when is anyone not open to the idea that there is a God? Even the absolute strongest atheist is going to believe is God comes knocking on his door.



Religion does not kill people. Men kill people. They kill people with religion, without religion, they killed long before religion ever existed and no doubt with kill long after it disappears. The fact they kill with religious justification is of no more significance than the fact they kill with blue eyes or blonde hair.


If you want to be a skeptic, fine. I guess deism technically isn't theistic but they share the belief in a God. I'd argue that it's really a branch of theism. It really doesn't matter. Deism is not a religion, it is a belief. Deists typically disassociate with any type of dogma. There are not deist churches. Athough there aren't any real deist boundaries, deists typically disassociate with any religious dogma; therefore, it is anti any dogmatic religion. I am anarchist and doubt I participate in any dogma in society, unless you include norms as a branch of dogma, I suppose. Dogma is not voluntary in many cases. It is authoritative. Religion is forced on young children. If you've never seen the documentary "Jesus Camp", I strongly recommend it. Atheists believe there is no God. Plain and simple. They are un-opened to the fact that there is a God. Yes, if God knocked on their door, they would probably believe in God after that. But they believe that God will never knock on their door. This is a stupid argument. Atheists are not theists. Without religion, I feel that the world would have exponentially less conflict. Religion is the base of almost all large-scale violence. I agree that people kill people, but this doesn't change the fact that religion control a large portion of people in this world. When it comes down to it, religion is controlled by elitists who want to take control of the populus.

[Yes. And?]

lol, I should start regularly posting again.

[EndSerenading]

anathallo! Explosions in the sky! Annuals!

Yes, Yes, No if I had a say in the matter :P

[Yes. And?]

I've never listened to Annuals and it's been months since I last heard EITS.

I still don't "get" the premise of this thread.

[Taniam]

If you want to be a skeptic, fine. I guess deism technically isn't theistic but they share the belief in a God. I'd argue that it's really a branch of theism. It really doesn't matter. Deism is not a religion, it is a belief. Deists typically disassociate with any type of dogma. There are not deist churches. Athough there aren't any real deist boundaries, deists typically disassociate with any religious dogma; therefore, it is anti any dogmatic religion. I am anarchist and doubt I participate in any dogma in society, unless you include norms as a branch of dogma, I suppose. Dogma is not voluntary in many cases. It is authoritative. Religion is forced on young children. If you've never seen the documentary "Jesus Camp", I strongly recommend it. Atheists believe there is no God. Plain and simple. They are un-opened to the fact that there is a God. Yes, if God knocked on their door, they would probably believe in God after that. But they believe that God will never knock on their door. This is a stupid argument. Atheists are not theists. Without religion, I feel that the world would have exponentially less conflict. Religion is the base of almost all large-scale violence. I agree that people kill people, but this doesn't change the fact that religion control a large portion of people in this world. When it comes down to it, religion is controlled by elitists who want to take control of the populus.
You're sadly mistaken christianity is a religion that is centered around self-sacrifice, giving of your time and money to the less fortunate, and showing love in everyway possibe. What you are reffering to is the distorted not actually christianity christians. It all started with the catholic church when they tried to add on to the bible...it's a long story filled with heart-ache and what not...but long story short if you or anyone else would actually take the time to read the bible, mainly paul's letters, you would begin to understand why poeple support religion like they do, and you would also be able to see how poeple try to distort it...

[jtsnazzy]

I still don't "get" the premise of this thread.

I don't either. That paragraph is a jumbled mess.

[Use me!]

You're sadly mistaken christianity is a religion that is centered around self-sacrifice, giving of your time and money to the less fortunate, and showing love in everyway possibe. What you are reffering to is the distorted not actually christianity christians. It all started with the catholic church when they tried to add on to the bible...it's a long story filled with heart-ache and what not...but long story short if you or anyone else would actually take the time to read the bible, mainly paul's letters, you would begin to understand why poeple support religion like they do, and you would also be able to see how poeple try to distort it...
I grew up Protestant. I read the whole bible. What's with these blind accusations? I believe that the writings of Jesus' are valid as a world view, the same way I believe Budda's writings are valid as a world view. I think you need to make your own conclusions and not appeal to the majority, because the majority is corrupt.

[Yes. And?]

Basically, this thread is about how ahead of the curve Yellowcard is because they use a violin?

[Use me!]

I don't either. That paragraph is a jumbled mess.
I should have spaced it out. It wasn't meant to be a paragraph.

[Taniam]

I grew up Protestant. I read the whole bible. What's with these blind accusations? I believe that the writings of Jesus' are valid as a world view, the same way I believe Budda's writings are valid as a world view. I think you need to make your own conclusions and not appeal to the majority, because the majority is corrupt.

you're right my bad...but granted yes the majority is wrong, but that is why it is important that when you find truth to hold on to it

[Use me!]

I know what Deism is.



You are posting this from a Microsoft or Apple computer correct?



Jesus Camp represents such a tiny fringe of religion and even then these are christian, all christian are indoctrinated with their parents beliefs. When they are adults they will have a choice.



Then they are open to the possiblity of their being God, they just want some proof. I don't see why wanting proof of someone means you are not open to the possiblity it is correct. Surely that is the definition of being open to religion?



Who's saying otherwise?


Of the top five wars of all time by deaths only two occured for religious reasons.

1. World War 2 (Non religious)
2. An Shi Rebellion (Non religious)
3. Mongol Conquests (Non religious)
4. Manchu Conquest of Ming Dynasty (Non religious)
5. Taiping Rebellion (Religious)
6. World War 1 (Non religious)
7. Timur's conquests (Non religious)
8. Russian Civil War (Non religious)
9. Second Congolese War (Religious)
10. Napoleanic Wars (Non religious)

The most deaths of any men on one day was at Cannae in 216bc. Religion was not a factor.

You're forgetting that the Crusades killed around 10 million people or so, which is a much larger proportion of people living in the world at the time when compared to WWII. I'm not going to get into how religion as a whole can indirectly create separation between cultures. While Hitler wasn't religious, he was dogmatic.

When it boils down to it, I'm more anti-dogma than anti-religious, I guess. I will redefine my stance as such. I am against any dogmatic religion.

Jesus camp is not a tiny fringe. Right-wing Christians make up more than 25% of the U.S. Most children are not so lucky to be able to make their own decisions when they are an adult because their religion has brainwashed them. Religion targets children at the critical thinking stage of their life.

Purchasing an Apple computer is not Dogma. Dogma can be a belief or a doctrine. There is no such thing as economic dogma. If I want a computer that works, I need to buy an Apple or Microsoft computer. This is at the equivalent of you saying that I cannot live unless I believe in a religion.

[Use me!]

Then they are open to the possiblity of their being God, they just want some proof. I don't see why wanting proof of someone means you are not open to the possiblity it is correct. Surely that is the definition of being open to religion?


They are not open to the possibility of God because there is no proof. If proof was found and they started to believe in God, they wouldn't be atheist anymore. But their stance is that proof will not be found because there is no God. I think you're mistaking atheism for agnosticism.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

I know what Deism is.



You are posting this from a Microsoft or Apple computer correct?



Jesus Camp represents such a tiny fringe of religion and even then these are christian, all christian are indoctrinated with their parents beliefs. When they are adults they will have a choice.



Then they are open to the possiblity of their being God, they just want some proof. I don't see why wanting proof of someone means you are not open to the possiblity it is correct. Surely that is the definition of being open to religion?



Who's saying otherwise?


Of the top five wars of all time by deaths only two occured for religious reasons.

1. World War 2 (Non religious)
2. An Shi Rebellion (Non religious)
3. Mongol Conquests (Non religious)
4. Manchu Conquest of Ming Dynasty (Non religious)
5. Taiping Rebellion (Religious)
6. World War 1 (Non religious)
7. Timur's conquests (Non religious)
8. Russian Civil War (Non religious)
9. Second Congolese War (Religious)
10. Napoleanic Wars (Non religious)

The most deaths of any men on one day was at Cannae in 216bc. Religion was not a factor.

Ben that's top ten not five, sorry holmes.

[raychull]

What does that even mean? Most musical modern band. haha.
apparently some modern bands use a lot of ...non instruments.

edit.
i love how the music discussion turned into a religious debate.

[Use me!]

The crusades were not a war. They were a series of vaguely connected wars stretching over 200 years. They were also far, far more complex than a religious war, this is evidenced by the fact not all christians participated and those who did changed over the 200 year period based on political alliance.

Even if we accept that the Crusades (which they don't) then that's still only 3 of the top 10 which can be attributed to religion. Hardly the cause of all wars now is it?


So if you're right wing and christian you're an advocate of Jesus Camp? What about those brought up liberal or socialist? Are they not indoctrinated?


It demonstrates that you are not detached from society as you claim.
Does it matter whether the Crusades were a war or not? No. They almost killed a full percentage point of the world. If we're not going to agree that it was based on religion, then we're on a completely different page.

I'm not saying that if you're a right-wing Christian, you participate in this. I'm saying that many of these people exist and it happens way too often.

I don't claim to be disconnected from society. This is another straw man. I claim to not take part in dogma. I am not an anarcho-capatilist with dreams of an anarchist society, because I know it would never work. I am just a person who recognizes that the state is bullshit.

No. Strong atheists do not accept the fact that there might be a god. There are 5 branches of religion.

Strong atheism - Belief that there is no God period.
Weak atheism - Belief that there is no God with openness that there could be a God.
Agnosticism - Belief that there might be a God and there might not be a God. There is no way to prove either.
Weak theism - Belief in a God with openness that there may not be a God. This is where I put deism.
Strong theism - Belief that there is a God.

Strong atheists have just as much belief that there is not a God as strong theists believe that there is a God.

[Use me!]

Okay Kid I'm done with this. You are a naive, generalising and poorly informed young man. I have used evidence and reason at every turn in this discussion. You on the other hand ignore basic facts and common sense. I'm confident anyone reading this thread can see that.
Ending an argument with an ad hominem=fail.

[xJesusFreakx]

...

You are posting this from a Microsoft or Apple computer correct?

...

Pardon my use of internet vernacular, but I do believe that you have pwned him.

[raychull]

Pardon my use of internet vernacular, but I do believe that you have pwned him.

I reread the arguement, and he pwned him to the 100th degree.

[Use me!]

Pardon my use of internet vernacular, but I do believe that you have pwned him.
How? It was a straw man. It didn't make sense.

[xJesusFreakx]

How? It was a straw man. It didn't make sense.

You apparently know the logical fallacies pretty well. So, can you give step-by-step responses to him as he has for you?

[Use me!]

You apparently know the logical fallacies pretty well. So, can you give step-by-step responses to him as he has for you?
I'm new to the site. I didn't know how or I probably would have. But this has nothing to do with anything. I shouldn't have to give step-by-step responses or explain his logical fallacies. They should be apparent. He bashed me with rhetoric without even stating his opinion. I admit that his one fact about death in war was valid. But my argument still remains, religion kills people. Most of the war today is religion-based. I can admit when I'm wrong but apparently this guy is too much of a narcissist to give me any credibility. When he knew he was wrong about something, he just dished out a personal attack and ended the debate.

[Use me!]

Most rock bands push musicality by the wayside and just make what sound fun, and that is not a bad thing. but there are some bands today that take the time to bring an heir of musicality and technical ability into their music...what bands do you think accomplish that and why?...me and my friends personally think yellowcard and before you shoot me down here me out...not only do they use a violin in all their songs, but the way they layer parts and their ability to transfer the melody from voice to instruments make them musical
I just read what this forum is actually about. Umm. I'd say Margot and the Nuclear So & So's, I guess.

[handlikesecret]

Well, it's better than going to war and killing thousands over holy turf. Perhaps when the religious people can keep their hands to themselves, I won't feel inclined to make sarcastic comments encouraging them to critically think.
http://www.thoomp.com/catalog/images/IncreasinglyIrrelevant.gif