If he retired today would Kurt Warner be a Hall of Famer?

[rcrook]

Discuss

[J.C.]

I say yes. The argument against him would be a statistical one, but I still think he owns the highest career QB rating in NFL history(he's right up there at least). Add that to 2 league MVPs, 3 Super Bowl appearances(with two different franchises), and a Super Bowl MVP, and I think that's a pretty strong case.

[Bigalan2004]

i'm not sure. looking at this numbers he has 5 solid, not so much hall of fame numbers, out of 10 years in the league. however he was a 2x nfl mvp, and won a ring so he is definitely not a first ballot hall of famer, maybe in a few years. the system and recievers he had during his good years really really helped him like in st. louis and arizona.

[FondestMemory]

yes.

how you play in the playoffs goes a long way in getting you in. he's played in three super bowls and has the three highest yardage totals in sb history.

plus the two league mvps. the years after st. louis with the giants and the first few with the cardinals will hurt him because of how awful he was, but they won't keep him out. they'll keep him off the first ballot, but at his best the guy is far and away a hall of famer.

[xbrokendownx]

definitely yes

[batmannj]

hands down yes. kurt has been to three super bowls, and is two or threes plays away from having three rings instead of one. He has taken two teams to the super bowl with his excellent leadership, and has 2 MVP awards. He also is the all-time leader in passing yards in Super Bowl history.

[Smithers]

hands down yes. kurt has been to three super bowls, and is two or threes plays away from having three rings instead of one. He has taken two teams to the super bowl with his excellent leadership, and has 2 MVP awards. He also is the all-time leader in passing yards in Super Bowl history.
he's also one yard away from possibly having zero rings.

just to be devil's advocate.

[theguy77]

man i fucking wish he won this one, that would cement it, being the first QB to win a superbowl for a team? but his greatest show on turf days and the fact that he hasnt really underperformed in much of his career might still be enough. i just feel like roethlisberger has all the time in the world to win more rings, warner's 37.

EDIT: wait, he did underperform on the giants didnt he. my bad.

[preppyak]

he's also one yard away from possibly having zero rings.

just to be devil's advocate.
http://www.nflfans.com/rams/images/importD2.jpg

I just love posting that for the agony of Titans fans....that's what you get for changing from the Oilers

[raukura]

yes.

how you play in the playoffs goes a long way in getting you in. he's played in three super bowls and has the three highest yardage totals in sb history.

plus the two league mvps. the years after st. louis with the giants and the first few with the cardinals will hurt him because of how awful he was, but they won't keep him out. they'll keep him off the first ballot, but at his best the guy is far and away a hall of famer.

sums it up I think

[Spicoli hey bud]

I say yes. The argument against him would be a statistical one, but I still think he owns the highest career QB rating in NFL history(he's right up there at least). Add that to 2 league MVPs, 3 Super Bowl appearances(with two different franchises), and a Super Bowl MVP, and I think that's a pretty strong case.
That title might actually belong to Chad Pennington, which is pretty indicative of the fact that maybe it isn't the best stat to look at. That being said, the 2 MVPs, a superbowl MVP and 3 superbowls should be more than enough to get him in, although maybe not first ballot.

man i fucking wish he won this one, that would cement it, being the first QB to win a superbowl for a team? but his greatest show on turf days and the fact that he hasnt really underperformed in much of his career might still be enough. i just feel like roethlisberger has all the time in the world to win more rings, warner's 37.

EDIT: wait, he did underperform on the giants didnt he. my bad.
How is this relevant?

[allisterkid]

I don't think this is even a question. He lead his teams to three Super Bowls, and won one. He did this in a limited career, and with a movie like story (kid working at a grocery store, people telling him to give up on football, and what not). There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Kurt Warner will make it to the hall of fame no matter what comes of his career.

[J.C.]

That title might actually belong to Chad Pennington, which is pretty indicative of the fact that maybe it isn't the best stat to look at. That being said, the 2 MVPs, a superbowl MVP and 3 superbowls should be more than enough to get him in, although maybe not first ballot.

Warner's career QB rating is over 3 points higher than Chad's. Prior to this year, Pennington had only had one full season with a QB rating higher than Kurt's average. I agree it shouldn't be the sole basis for a HOF argument, but it helps in Warner's case.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Warner's career QB rating is over 3 points higher than Chad's.
You're right, I'm thinking of completion percentage.

[CubbyNick42]

http://www.nflfans.com/rams/images/importD2.jpg

I just love posting that for the agony of Titans fans....that's what you get for changing from the Oilers
Growing up 3 hours from any major city, the shitty Rams having their training camp a half hour from me was the coolest thing ever when I was 14. Seeing them come out of nowhere to win the Super Bowl after being at WIU for training camp a few months before was one of the highlights of my childhood.

[preppyak]

The guy that tackled him...he'd better have gotten like a $2million bonus...because that is the biggest open field tackle in the history of the Super Bowl. Its tough enough to stop the slant, but when it means everything and the guy is fighting like hell, to stop him cold was just incredible

[FondestMemory]

The guy that tackled him...he'd better have gotten like a $2million bonus...because that is the biggest open field tackle in the history of the Super Bowl. Its tough enough to stop the slant, but when it means everything and the guy is fighting like hell, to stop him cold was just incredible

mike jones.

he had a monster season that entire year though. dude had a career year, so it was fitting for him to end it on a play like that.

it's always cool to see a career roleplayer make such a historic play though.

he only played a few more seasons after that, including some time on the steelers. pretty sure he's coaching high school football somewhere now though.

[Adeniz19]

i'm going to say no, as of right now. yes, he has had some great seasons, but I just don't think he has been consistent enough. his only really good seasons have been from 99-01 and last season. he had a huge drought in between. if he has another good season next year then i say maybe. but, i just don't think having 4 good seasons is enough to be inducted.

[FondestMemory]

i'm going to say no, as of right now. yes, he has had some great seasons, but I just don't think he has been consistent enough. his only really good seasons have been from 99-01 and last season. he had a huge drought in between. if he has another good season next year then i say maybe. but, i just don't think having 4 good seasons is enough to be inducted.

when you look at those 4 good seasons, and realize that he went to the super bowl in three of those and put up the three best passing performances ever, that kind of outweighs the in between.

like i said earlier, just looking at the high points of his resume is enough to make him a hall of famer. there are players more consistent than him that still don't have the accomplishments.

he will not be a first ballot guy, and shouldn't be. but when your best is among the best to ever play the game, you deserve to be in there.

[preppyak]

he will not be a first ballot guy, and shouldn't be. but when your best is among the best to ever play the game, you deserve to be in there.
Does that mean you have Terrell Davis in? I mean, he also had 4 great seasons, held the record for most points in the playoffs ever, got the MVP...and then the rest is nigh.

I agree with you that Warner will get in...but, I do hesitate to think he should be when I make a comparison like that. It makes me wonder if having 4 of x number of seasons being great should be enough to get you in

[FondestMemory]

i've said all along i'd put td in.

[preppyak]

i've said all along i'd put td in.
Ok, just wasn't sure if you'd have him in as well

[BJW7191]

i know we have had some super amazing superbowls the past few years, but the titans/rams was by far the best ive seen. and its def in contention for the best ever imo

all that being said, i hated warner with the rams, but i have to put him in. all the stats have been stated and the storyline is just as compelling. he gets the nod for me

[Adeniz19]

when you look at those 4 good seasons, and realize that he went to the super bowl in three of those and put up the three best passing performances ever, that kind of outweighs the in between.

like i said earlier, just looking at the high points of his resume is enough to make him a hall of famer. there are players more consistent than him that still don't have the accomplishments.

he will not be a first ballot guy, and shouldn't be. but when your best is among the best to ever play the game, you deserve to be in there.eehhh i'm not so sure. to me, the HOF represents consistency and to have that big of a gap inbetween kind of leaves a lot to be open, but that could all change if he keeps on performing like he did last season. before the beginning of last season i would of absolutely said he doesnt deserve to be in, but now i'm on the fence about it. he does have an amazing story, and everyone loves him, so i'm sure that'll go a long way to if he is going to be in or not.

[FondestMemory]

i think the hall of fame represents the best players to play the game.

i understand the argument you're making, but his strengths outweigh the negatives by a shit ton. at his best, kurt warner is among the best to play the game.

it's different if he never had this past season. having three great years followed by a career of mediocrity is one thing. but to perform at this level years later for a different team says a whole lot about the talent the guy has.

[Adeniz19]

oh i agree, and i totally wouldn't be against it if he did get inducted. i just don't think he is a shoe-in.

[more heart]

Meh, I'd say so

[FondestMemory]

i'm definitely not saying he's a shoe in.

i really believe he definitely deserves to be in there though.

but the years in between will keep him from being a first ballot inductee.

[startBBtoday]

yes he will be, but i'm not saying he completely deserves to be.

[speakhandsforme]

More than his statistical feats, what's the most impressive is the fact that he won a title while playing for the St. Louis Rams and moreover lured the St. Louis area from its usual baseball obsession and actually overshadowed the Cardinals in that market for a couple years.

I'm by no means a Rams fan but, no matter your team of choice, the greatness and marketability of the '99-'02 Rams cannot be denied: it was a perfect storm considering that was the only roster that Martz's system could function within.

Warner's by no means a first ballot but, eventually, he'll get in. However, you can make the case that he was a product of a system both in Arizona and STL. Not every passer gets the pleasure of playing with guys like Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Boldin, and Fitzy.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Marketability: not a factor on the HOF ballot.

[speakhandsforme]

Marketability: not a factor on the HOF ballot.

You're ignorant to modern sports, if you say that.

For fucks sake, Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame. Look at his career stats and tell me if his marketability had anything to do with his legacy and induction.

[Spicoli hey bud]

You're ignorant to modern sports, if you say that.

For fucks sake, Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame. Look at his career stats and tell me if his marketability had anything to do with his legacy and induction.
Joe Namath fucking sucked. If he never won that Superbowl, he would have never made the hall of fame. The big game did it for him, not the fact that he was "broadway joe."

[speakhandsforme]

Joe Namath fucking sucked. If he never won that Superbowl, he would have never made the hall of fame. The big game did it for him, not the fact that he was "broadway joe."

The Superbowl win launched a bravado that brought great attention to the NFL. If Joe had won the title and then humbly continued being an average QB, he would not have made it into the Hall. No guarantee, no public image, no Hall of Fame induction.

[Spicoli hey bud]

The Superbowl win launched a bravado that brought great attention to the NFL. If Joe had won the title and then humbly continued being an average QB, he would not have made it into the Hall. No guarantee, no public image, no Hall of Fame induction.
It was also the first official "superbowl."

[CubbyNick42]

First, third, close enough.

[Spicoli hey bud]

First, third, close enough.
Notice the quotations.

Here's a fun fact, Superbowl 3 was the first one to actually be called "the superbowl."

Before that it was just the AFC/NFC championship or some shit.

[speakhandsforme]

The title "Superbowl" was unofficial during the Packers' first two but only because the NFL rejected the word "super" as being slang for that day in age. But they're still considered Super Bowls. By the way, it was a AFL/NFL championship: it was the Jets' win that forced a proper joint of the two leagues. After the Chiefs and Raiders failed in the first two, the AFL was seen as illegitimate.

[CubbyNick42]

Notice the quotations.

Here's a fun fact, Superbowl 3 was the first one to actually be called "the superbowl."

Before that it was just the AFC/NFC championship or some shit.
Ahh I gotcha

[Talib Scottie]

I think he gets in. You look at his numbers in those years where he (or at least the offense he was in) was dominate and what he did in the postseason / super bowl, I think he's in. Not to mention the fact that he is a high character guy and that can do nothing but help him.

[xerovision1]

More than his statistical feats, what's the most impressive is the fact that he won a title while playing for the St. Louis Rams and moreover lured the St. Louis area from its usual baseball obsession and actually overshadowed the Cardinals in that market for a couple years.

I'm by no means a Rams fan but, no matter your team of choice, the greatness and marketability of the '99-'02 Rams cannot be denied: it was a perfect storm considering that was the only roster that Martz's system could function within.

Warner's by no means a first ballot but, eventually, he'll get in. However, you can make the case that he was a product of a system both in Arizona and STL. Not every passer gets the pleasure of playing with guys like Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Boldin, and Fitzy.

Not sure about that. The Rams were 4-12 in 1998, and Arizona had never been anything special until he suddenly resurrected his career. I'd say he was a big part of why those teams became what they became. You have a valid point though.

[COTA]

Yes.

[Kaleidoscope]

who cares?

[Scott Weber]

who cares?
fans.

[Kaleidoscope]

fans.

i don't understand why the Hall Of Fame, in any sport, is held up as this thing that exemplifies greatness. Why does someone need to get inducted every year? If a player was great his history and stats will show it. One doesn't need the title of 'Hall of Famer' to be great. Like in baseball, Pete Rose isn't in the Hall of Fame, and it doesn't matter because anyone who knows something about the sport knows he is one of the greatest of all time. The whole thing is just a show.

[FondestMemory]

i agree. these players don't deserve any type of honor after having a great career. they don't need to be paid tribute to and labeled among the best to ever play the game by their peers. history and stats are enough, and they can all be looked up online. there's no need for a tourist attraction that keeps all this in one place and offers fans a great experience.

and on the same point, i don't understand why there are playoffs and championship games. if a team's good, their performance on the field will show it. they don't need the title 'champion' to be a great team. the whole thing is just a show.

[Kaleidoscope]

i agree. these players don't deserve any type of honor after having a great career. they don't need to be paid tribute to and labeled among the best to ever play the game by their peers. history and stats are enough, and they can all be looked up online. there's no need for a tourist attraction that keeps all this in one place and offers fans a great experience.

and on the same point, i don't understand why there are playoffs and championship games. if a team's good, their performance on the field will show it. they don't need the title 'champion' to be a great team. the whole thing is just a show.

well, you helped me. its about money. that's all its about. a TOURIST ATTRACTION. the player's know if they're good, they don't need other people telling them. the validity of the hall of fame is bs. there doesn't need for an induction EVERY year.

and playoffs and championship games are a completely different animal. that is the team performing on the field. i'm pretty sure if you ask kurt warner he wouldn't mind if he's in the hall of fame or not. he is very humbled and knows he's had a good career and has been a good person. that's all the reassurance he needs.

[FondestMemory]

your perception of the hall of fame is way off.

i guarentee you kurt warner wants to be in the hall of fame. i guarentee you every player playing the game at one time or another had dreams of making it into the hall of fame.

it is not all about money. it's about the history of the game. it's a hall of records. it's a place to represent the great players who have played the sport. and in reality, how is it all about money? the hall of fame really doesn't bring in an absurd amount of money. especially compared to the moneymaking juggernaut that the league itself is.

honestly, you're just sounding like a complete idiot right now. the hall of fame is a big deal to fans and players alike.

[Kaleidoscope]

okay, well you just can't speak for everyone. I am a fan, and I don't need the Hall of Fame to tell me who was a great player and who wasn't. And any place that has stats is a hall of records.

I'm just saying to me, its really just icing on the cake if a player gets in. its not a big deal.

[FondestMemory]

and to them, it is a big deal.

[Scott Weber]

And you're not the general population.

[Kaleidoscope]

i'm not saying i am, i'm saying one can't speak for the general population.

kurt on his legacy:
"Whatever that legacy is at the end of the day, it is. My approach is hoping that every player who I've played with, every place that I've been, in some way, shape or form, I leave my stamp on those people and on those places. That's what I want my legacy to be."


no mention of the hall.

[FondestMemory]

yes. one quote is enough to show that he doesn't care about the hall of fame.

i guarentee you he'd be incredibly grateful and happy if the day came that he got elected into the hall.

[Scott Weber]

The lack of a mention does not in any way support a claim that he doesn't view it as important or a great honor.

[Kaleidoscope]

k.

its an opinion, plain and simple.

arrest me, because i've slandered the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

how dare i

[Scott Weber]

k.

its an opinion, plain and simple.

arrest me, because i've slandered the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

how dare i
How are you twisting this into a "me vs. the world" thing? You originally said "who cares." The answer is players, fans, etc. You don't need to get all butt-hurt and play a woe is me card.

[Kaleidoscope]

How are you twisting this into a "me vs. the world" thing? You originally said "who cares." The answer is players, fans, etc. You don't need to get all butt-hurt and play a woe is me card.

the "who cares" was a rhetorical question used to display my opinion on the subject. Unfortunately, what ensued was me being attacked for my view by blowhards who love the hall of fame.

And the way you put it makes it seem like i'm the only one who doesn't give a damn about the hall of fame, which would in fact pit me against the world.

[bigmike]

well, you helped me. its about money. that's all its about. a TOURIST ATTRACTION. the player's know if they're good, they don't need other people telling them. the validity of the hall of fame is bs. there doesn't need for an induction EVERY year.

and playoffs and championship games are a completely different animal. that is the team performing on the field. i'm pretty sure if you ask kurt warner he wouldn't mind if he's in the hall of fame or not. he is very humbled and knows he's had a good career and has been a good person. that's all the reassurance he needs.
Since I love baseball and couldn't care less about the NFL, I'll direct this towards the baseball hall of fame. If you want to call it a tourist attraction, great. But it's actually the largest museum documenting the history of what used to be the most popular sport in America with the longest history of the major professional sports. If there wasn't something like the baseball HOF, there's entire gaps of the history of the game that goes unnoticed, unmentioned, and generally forgotten.

If that's just a "tourist attraction," then so be it.

[Kaleidoscope]

Since I love baseball and couldn't care less about the NFL, I'll direct this towards the baseball hall of fame. If you want to call it a tourist attraction, great. But it's actually the largest museum documenting the history of what used to be the most popular sport in America with the longest history of the major professional sports. If there wasn't something like the baseball HOF, there's entire gaps of the history of the game that goes unnoticed, unmentioned, and generally forgotten.

If that's just a "tourist attraction," then so be it.

okay, maybe the tourist attraction comment was a bit much. i've been to the baseball hall of fame. i enjoyed it and appreciate it. i'm just saying the label "hall of famer" shouldn't change the way a player is remembered because there are a lot of players that could probably be in, but aren't.

[bigmike]

okay, maybe the tourist attraction comment was a bit much. i've been to the baseball hall of fame. i enjoyed it and appreciate it. i'm just saying the label "hall of famer" shouldn't change the way a player is remembered because there are a lot of players that could probably be in, but aren't.
It's 100% the other way around. There are a lot of players that are in, but don't deserve to be.

[Kaleidoscope]

It's 100% the other way around. There are a lot of players that are in, but don't deserve to be.

or that.

which is why that label doesn't have the same meaning it used to have.

[Scott Weber]

the "who cares" was a rhetorical question used to display my opinion on the subject. Unfortunately, what ensued was me being attacked for my view by blowhards who love the hall of fame.

And the way you put it makes it seem like i'm the only one who doesn't give a damn about the hall of fame, which would in fact pit me against the world.
Again, you're worthless. I don't love the HOF. I don't really care either way. But people do and it matters to players, their legacy, and to their peers if they get in or not. Not whatever crap you try and whine about now - people care, and that's what matters. Not your own personal opinion, so get off your soap box.

[Kaleidoscope]

Again, you're worthless. I don't love the HOF. I don't really care either way. But people do and it matters to players, their legacy, and to their peers if they get in or not. Not whatever crap you try and whine about now - people care, and that's what matters. Not your own personal opinion, so get off your soap box.

i'm worthless. i feel so small now because a forum moderator insulted me. sorry for utilizing the website to voice my opinion.

[Scott Weber]

i'm worthless. i feel so small now because a forum moderator insulted me. sorry for utilizing the website to voice my opinion.

wtf is this apologist garbage? this woe is me stuff? i never understood what the pity party is here. nobody is going to feel bad for you with this stuff. have a discussion but just stop with this stuff, it is so played.

[rockonufa02]

yes, he should be

[Kaleidoscope]

wtf is this apologist garbage? this woe is me stuff? i never understood what the pity party is here. nobody is going to feel bad for you with this stuff. have a discussion but just stop with this stuff, it is so played.

its because you can't have a discussion on here without your opinion being mocked as you did with mine. calling someone worthless for their thoughts is far from a "discussion". and i'm not being "woe is me" as you like to call it. it's complete and utter sarcasm.

[Scott Weber]

its because you can't have a discussion on here without your opinion being mocked as you did with mine. calling someone worthless for their thoughts is far from a "discussion". and i'm not being "woe is me" as you like to call it. it's complete and utter sarcasm.
just go away. your opinion wasn't mocked, it was disagreed with, until you become whiny and closed-off about it, that's when it got shot down. clearly you are worthless and proving it more every second.

[Kaleidoscope]

just go away. your opinion wasn't mocked, it was disagreed with, until you become whiny and closed-off about it, that's when it got shot down. clearly you are worthless and proving it more every second.

there's a difference between being whiny and arguing my side of the topic. If you call it whining, well then I'll do it all I want. you just can't accept the fact that someone is actually challenging you, and disagreeing with someone with a God-like 40,000+ posts. get over it.

[Scott Weber]

there's a difference between being whiny and arguing my side of the topic. If you call it whining, well then I'll do it all I want. you just can't accept the fact that someone is actually challenging you, and disagreeing with someone with a God-like 40,000+ posts. get over it.
See, this is what I'm talking about. What does my moderator status or post count have to do with anything? nothing. That's just you stumbling backwards with fists wailing, I have never understood why people have done that. Yes, I've been at AP for 5 years, ooooooo, ahhhhhh. I'm more than happy to accept your opinion - which is that you don't care - fantastic. People care, players care. That's all my stance has ever been on this, it's pretty simple. There's no god complex here, it's just you acting like a baby since you got what you interpret as teamed up on. Do you want to get back to a discussion or do you want to continue acting like a child?

[Kaleidoscope]

See, this is what I'm talking about. What does my moderator status or post count have to do with anything? nothing. That's just you stumbling backwards with fists wailing, I have never understood why people have done that. Yes, I've been at AP for 5 years, ooooooo, ahhhhhh. I'm more than happy to accept your opinion - which is that you don't care - fantastic. People care, players care. That's all my stance has ever been on this, it's pretty simple. There's no god complex here, it's just you acting like a baby since you got what you interpret as teamed up on. Do you want to get back to a discussion or do you want to continue acting like a child?

when i said the status of being a hall of famer did not mean what it used to mean, you went on to state that i was worthless. so let's not lose sight of who went off topic.

[Scott Weber]

when i said the status of being a hall of famer did not mean what it used to mean, you went on to state that i was worthless. so let's not lose sight of who went off topic.
Jesus christ, you are a joke. You're worthless because you retreated to a "how dare I state my opinion" weak position with "how dare I insult the great HOF", not because of what you said, it's because you didn't have the balls to stand behind something without retreating while slapping your hands at people. You really don't get it. Now go away, I have no patience for whiners like you.

[Kaleidoscope]

Jesus christ, you are a joke. You're worthless because you retreated to a "how dare I state my opinion" weak position with "how dare I insult the great HOF", not because of what you said, it's because you didn't have the balls to stand behind something without retreating while slapping your hands at people. You really don't get it. Now go away, I have no patience for whiners like you.

It's not a retreat its done purposely because my views weren't even taken into consideration because you think you know more, when its impossible to know more on the subject of MY opinion. My views were simply dismissed. if you don't have patience for me then stop responding to my posts.

[Scott Weber]

It's not a retreat its done purposely because my views weren't even taken into consideration because you think you know more, when its impossible to know more on the subject of MY opinion. My views were simply dismissed. if you don't have patience for me then stop responding to my posts.
Your views weren't taken into consideration and dismissed because you don't have any. You don't personally care, that's your viewpoint. Players and others care and they've said as much. Your point: who cares. Counter point: lots of people. What exactly was your point further than that before you starting acting completely ridiculous?

[Kaleidoscope]

Your views weren't taken into consideration and dismissed because you don't have any. You don't personally care, that's your viewpoint. Players and others care and they've said as much. Your point: who cares. Counter point: lots of people. What exactly was your point further than that before you starting acting completely ridiculous?

maybe if you actually read the rest of my points it'd be clear.

the hall of fame label does not mean what it used to because of points discussed earlier. you were too wrapped up in this to see it.

[Corgkowznor]

http://www.nflfans.com/rams/images/importD2.jpg

I just love posting that for the agony of Titans fans....that's what you get for changing from the Oilers

His knee is not down in that picture.

[xbrokendownx]

uhh yea but his back is....

[StrictlyBiznas]

His shoulder...is on the ground.