Alex Rodriguez Killed Baseball

[brandnizzle2419]

IMO, the fact that Alex Rodriguez, the MLB's golden boy, used anabolic steroids ruins everything that the sport stands for, and is truly representative of this era in baseball. i want to see every current player tested before i regain my faith in the sport.

[Ben09]

Baseball sucks anyway, but all the higher ups killed baseball for not taking care of all the steroid abuse sooner.

[preppyak]

yep...because McGwire and Sosa hadn't already ruined it...along with Bonds.

I'm guessing you were too young to remember that baseball was dead and forgotten as a sport until Sosa/McGwire saved it with that one season...and then we found out it was tainted. That A-rod used is perhaps icing on the cake at best

and define "kill the sport"...doesn't baseball NOT have to be having record ticket sales for the sport to be killed?

edit: basically, shut the fuck up

[Montauk1222]

I used to joke that he was on steroids just for the fact that he was a Yankee and a teammate of Jason Giambi but I never really thought it, but in the end he was using them and I'm not all that surprised. I just feel he won't be as scrutinized by sports writers and sports media (ESPN mostly) because he is the MLB's meal ticket right now. That is the reason his results weren't put out there, because he is what draws to the sport currently.

[CubbyNick42]

IMO, the fact that Alex Rodriguez, the MLB's golden boy, used anabolic steroids ruins everything that the sport stands for, and is truly representative of this era in baseball. i want to see every current player tested before i regain my faith in the sport.
If this is enough to drive you away, then you never liked baseball that much to begin with.

[Chris Fallon]

If this is enough to drive you away, then you never liked baseball that much to begin with.
Truth.

[TheOtherAndrew]

edit: basically, shut the fuck up
Yes.

[CubbyNick42]

I used to joke that he was on steroids just for the fact that he was a Yankee and a teammate of Jason Giambi but I never really thought it, but in the end he was using them and I'm not all that surprised. I just feel he won't be as scrutinized by sports writers and sports media (ESPN mostly) because he is the MLB's meal ticket right now. That is the reason his results weren't put out there, because he is what draws to the sport currently.
Every year there are about 14 parks (give or take) that A-Rod doesn't play a game in, and yet MLB has seen its two highest single-season attendance figures in the last two seasons. Gotta be something going on besides that one guy, don't you think?

[preppyak]

I would argue strongly that Manny Ramirez had a bigger impact on ticket sales last year than A-rod did...add CC in there too...as they impacted multiple cities just with their presence on the team

[Chris Fallon]

I'd like to see the records for Dodgers ticket sales after Manny was traded. They've always been an attraction in LA, but his trade had to of tipped the scales when he joined.

[acfrue]

I used to joke that he was on steroids just for the fact that he was a Yankee and a teammate of Jason Giambi but I never really thought it, but in the end he was using them and I'm not all that surprised. I just feel he won't be as scrutinized by sports writers and sports media (ESPN mostly) because he is the MLB's meal ticket right now. That is the reason his results weren't put out there, because he is what draws to the sport currently.

Yeah, the millions of fans only watch baseball because of A-Rod, not because they love the sport.

[lushintransit]

Yeah, the millions of fans only watch baseball because of A-Rod, not because they love the sport.

I feel like you're trying to be sarcastic but there's a significant sum of people that only DO watch the sport for guys like him.

[lushintransit]

Every year there are about 14 parks (give or take) that A-Rod doesn't play a game in, and yet MLB has seen its two highest single-season attendance figures in the last two seasons. Gotta be something going on besides that one guy, don't you think?

He's the highest paid player in the sport for a reason and that reason is not because he's the only person capable of hitting a ball over the fence: it's because his presence puts asses in the seats and viewers at the tube.

[preppyak]

I feel like you're trying to be sarcastic but there's a significant sum of people that only DO watch the sport for guys like him.
Sure...plenty of people watch for the stars...but, they won't be affected by this either because there is still CC, Manny, Pujols, etc to watch. Shit, even the casual Yankees fan shouldn't be put off because they have Texiera and CC coming in among others.

The news is that he tested positive...but, the actual effect is pretty insignificant, beyond that its one more person we know used...if this is the news that disenchants a fan, then they have been in a whole for the last 3 years

If Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco saying that 25% of players used...and the general nightmare of all of that didn't disenchant a fan, but A-Rod using does, then just, wow

edit: The only thing this really changes is that, if A-rod has an off season, he's gonna get RIPPED by the fans. That sympathetic figure he sort of had is now gone, after Torre's book and this

[acfrue]

I feel like you're trying to be sarcastic but there's a significant sum of people that only DO watch the sport for guys like him.

yeah, that is sarcasm.

Sure...plenty of people watch for the stars...but, they won't be affected by this either because there is still CC, Manny, Pujols, etc to watch. Shit, even the casual Yankees fan shouldn't be put off because they have Texiera and CC coming in among others.


exactly.

[FondestMemory]

I used to joke that he was on steroids just for the fact that he was a Yankee and a teammate of Jason Giambi but I never really thought it, but in the end he was using them and I'm not all that surprised. I just feel he won't be as scrutinized by sports writers and sports media (ESPN mostly) because he is the MLB's meal ticket right now. That is the reason his results weren't put out there, because he is what draws to the sport currently.

you should understand facts before you say stupid shit.

the results weren't put out there because the union agreed to the tests under the agreement they would be completely anonymous.

that's the reason they weren't put out there. there were 103 other players that tested positive at the same time.

to say arod killed the sport is beyond ridiculous. who didn't suspect it? it's baseball. manny, pujols, cc, pedro, howard, pretty much any name can come out and it won't be the least bit surprising.

i'd be more surprised to hear 100% proof that all of those players are clean than i would be to hear they juiced.

[J.C.]

Alex Rodriguez killed Alex Rodriguez.

lol @ him being a golden boy though

[OveriseFan]

I used to joke that he was on steroids just for the fact that he was a Yankee and a teammate of Jason Giambi but I never really thought it, but in the end he was using them and I'm not all that surprised. I just feel he won't be as scrutinized by sports writers and sports media (ESPN mostly) because he is the MLB's meal ticket right now. That is the reason his results weren't put out there, because he is what draws to the sport currently.

you should understand facts before you say stupid shit.

the results weren't put out there because the union agreed to the tests under the agreement they would be completely anonymous.

that's the reason they weren't put out there. there were 103 other players that tested positive at the same time.

to say arod killed the sport is beyond ridiculous. who didn't suspect it? it's baseball. manny, pujols, cc, pedro, howard, pretty much any name can come out and it won't be the least bit surprising.

i'd be more surprised to hear 100% proof that all of those players are clean than i would be to hear they juiced.

Thank you for answering this before I freaked out.

[Mitch]

Why are steroids so widespread in the MLB?

Is it this way in the NFL too? Or are they tested more regularly? I don't follow sports at all, so I have no idea.

[ActorInThisPlay]

people just need to get over this whole steroid thing and move on with their lives. it is pointless to spend all this time and money trying to track down all these guys that used steroids when it is becoming more obvious how many players actually did steroids. focus on how to prevent this from continuing to happen and let what happened in the past, stay in the past.

[OveriseFan]

Why are steroids so widespread in the MLB?

Is it this way in the NFL too? Or are they tested more regularly? I don't follow sports at all, so I have no idea.

It happens in the NFL, too. The NFL had stricter policies before the MLB, if I remember right (I don't follow the NFL that much, to be honest.), and took a more definitive stance on it sooner.

Another thing is: A baseball season is 162 games, playing sometimes many days in a row without much of a break. It takes a toll on your body. I know that Football is considered a more strenuous sport, but there's more time off and time to give your body rest between games.

[FondestMemory]

Why are steroids so widespread in the MLB?

Is it this way in the NFL too? Or are they tested more regularly? I don't follow sports at all, so I have no idea.

baseball didn't take a strict stance on baseball until 2004, and that was only after pressure from the media, government and public.

the nfl was the first major sport to implement a steroid policy and they were very proactive in doing it before it became a widespread concern. sure, there are still violations, but there always will be regardless. since putting their policy in place, the nfl has adapted and changed the rule as needed as steroids have evolved. they're constantly staying right with it, if not a step ahead.

if someone's of the opinion that steroids have killed baseball, than there is nowhere else to put the blame but on baseball itself. to turn a blind eye for so long did nothing but let the 'problem' grow worse and worse.

[live.]

People have exagerated the "enhancement" of steroids in baseball for some time. Are they cheating? Yes, they are. Can a guy go from 10 to 60 home runs because of steroids? No, he can't. Steroids won't teach you how to hit a 65 mph curveball low in the zone after just seeing a 95 mph fastball high and inside. Of course I would rather have the game clean and fair, but that will never happen again.

And for the people obsessed with the idea of making it the same game that Ruth and Aaron played, that's just preposterous. There are plenty of legal supplements that were never around before that enhance one's physical condition. I don't know where the league goes from here, but the game will never be completely clean again. There's too much advanced technology and way too many egos to get guys to stop putting shit into their bodies to hit home runs and make bank.

It's a shame that guys like Bonds and A-Rod have their entire careers "tarnished" because of what was most likely a small window of use, but it should be a lesson for everyone. The report of a positive test does little to give us the full picture of what really is happening. Did A-Rod use steroids in an Andy Pettitte way or in a Jason Giambi way? Would Bonds have been in the Hall if he never took anything and probably dwindled out and retired? The only thing "tarnished" is the media for trying to turn steroid use in sports and baseball into a soap opera of epic proportions to bring life to a dull and otherwise bland sport drama-wise.

Steroids are banned for being an unfair edge, yes, but they are just as much banned for being a severe health risk. The league doesn't need the Ken Caminiti tragedies happening more often, or guys exploding on their families due to roid rage. We've seen these exact instances happen in wrestling. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that steroids are not some magic drug that turns scrubs into Hall of Famers. By trying to clean up the game the league is looking out for the safety of their players and avoiding future conflicts with health issues of veterans. It's obvious by the way they've ignored certain players that they could give a shit about whether or not it beefs up home run totals. They're trying to satisfy the "guys who did it the right way", but who are we to say that if this technology was available what players of the past would or would not have taken any kind of performance enhancing drug?

[startBBtoday]

People have exagerated the "enhancement" of steroids in baseball for some time. Are they cheating? Yes, they are. Can a guy go from 10 to 60 home runs because of steroids? No, he can't. Steroids won't teach you how to hit a 65 mph curveball low in the zone after just seeing a 95 mph fastball high and inside. Of course I would rather have the game clean and fair, but that will never happen again.

And for the people obsessed with the idea of making it the same game that Ruth and Aaron played, that's just preposterous. There are plenty of legal supplements that were never around before that enhance one's physical condition. I don't know where the league goes from here, but the game will never be completely clean again. There's too much advanced technology and way too many egos to get guys to stop putting shit into their bodies to hit home runs and make bank.

It's a shame that guys like Bonds and A-Rod have their entire careers "tarnished" because of what was most likely a small window of use, but it should be a lesson for everyone. The report of a positive test does little to give us the full picture of what really is happening. Did A-Rod use steroids in an Andy Pettitte way or in a Jason Giambi way? Would Bonds have been in the Hall if he never took anything and probably dwindled out and retired? The only thing "tarnished" is the media for trying to turn steroid use in sports and baseball into a soap opera of epic proportions to bring life to a dull and otherwise bland sport drama-wise.

Steroids are banned for being an unfair edge, yes, but they are just as much banned for being a severe health risk. The league doesn't need the Ken Caminiti tragedies happening more often, or guys exploding on their families due to roid rage. We've seen these exact instances happen in wrestling. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that steroids are not some magic drug that turns scrubs into Hall of Famers. By trying to clean up the game the league is looking out for the safety of their players and avoiding future conflicts with health issues of veterans. It's obvious by the way they've ignored certain players that they could give a shit about whether or not it beefs up home run totals. They're trying to satisfy the "guys who did it the right way", but who are we to say that if this technology was available what players of the past would or would not have taken any kind of performance enhancing drug?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/anderbr01.shtml

[live.]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/anderbr01.shtml

Cool show me definitive evidence linking Brady Anderson to steroids.

[QuikTrig]

Steroids are banned for being an unfair edge, yes, but they are just as much banned for being a severe health risk. The league doesn't need the Ken Caminiti tragedies happening more often, or guys exploding on their families due to roid rage. We've seen these exact instances happen in wrestling. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that steroids are not some magic drug that turns scrubs into Hall of Famers. By trying to clean up the game the league is looking out for the safety of their players and avoiding future conflicts with health issues of veterans. It's obvious by the way they've ignored certain players that they could give a shit about whether or not it beefs up home run totals. They're trying to satisfy the "guys who did it the right way", but who are we to say that if this technology was available what players of the past would or would not have taken any kind of performance enhancing drug?

have you seen the documentary "bigger, faster, stronger."?

[CubbyNick42]

He's the highest paid player in the sport for a reason and that reason is not because he's the only person capable of hitting a ball over the fence: it's because his presence puts asses in the seats and viewers at the tube.
Or because he's one of the best at hitting a ball over the fence. Even the most unpersonable ogre would get that kind of money with the numbers he's put up and the agent he has. It has almost zero to do with his marketability.

[Bigalan2004]

and he's on the yankees.

[startBBtoday]

Cool show me definitive evidence linking Brady Anderson to steroids.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/anderbr01.shtml

[preppyak]

Cool show me definitive evidence linking Brady Anderson to steroids.
show definitive evidence that Barry Bonds used steroids...do it. Federal Prosecutors can't get definitive evidence...but do you really deny that Barry used them?

There is a pattern that puts you in suspsicion, adding 35lbs in 5 months and tripling your HR numbers, then spending the rest of your career unable to match those numbers and randomly injuring the muscles your body wasn't meant to have is obviously one of those patterns. Brady Anderson was one of my favorite players of all time, but, I have 0 doubt he was

Going from 25 HR's to 40 HR's is a career best year...to go from 16 to 50 is something else

[live.]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/anderbr01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marisro01.shtml

[live.]

show definitive evidence that Barry Bonds used steroids...do it. Federal Prosecutors can't get definitive evidence...but do you really deny that Barry used them?

There is a pattern that puts you in suspsicion, adding 35lbs in 5 months and tripling your HR numbers, then spending the rest of your career unable to match those numbers and randomly injuring the muscles your body wasn't meant to have is obviously one of those patterns. Brady Anderson was one of my favorite players of all time, but, I have 0 doubt he was

Bonds has positive tests floating around that the media knows about. Anderson wasn't even in the goddamned Mitchell Report.

[preppyak]

Bonds has positive tests floating around that the media knows about. Anderson wasn't even in the goddamned Mitchell Report.
Great...and a judge is about to throw them out...evidence debunked by the court system as unusable because they don't know who was in possession of it. Where is your other "definitive" evidence, cause otherwise you are working by the same circumstantial evidence that people are using on everyone who hasn't said "yes, I took steroids"

And the Mitchell Report named 84 names...yet 104 players were found in 2003 alone...people fell through the cracks clearly, and the list was not meant to be all inclusive. I'd still like to see you explain a 3x jump in HR's and 2x jump in RBI's from one season to the next without injuries being a factor

What A-rod confirms is that you are guilty until proven innocent with steroids...someone semi--credible says you did it, you did it

edit: Did the goddamned Mitchell Report name A-rod?

[Adeniz19]

baseball isn't dead. people will still watch and go to the games. this might be a selfish thing to say, but being a giants fan, i'm glad all of this is finally getting out there and finally not having barry singled out on this issue. i wish they would release the rest of the names from the testing. there needs to be some disciplinary action on the players who used (i realize it technically wasn't illegal at the time for a-rod or others to use, but that still doesnt change the image of baseball today), and only then can we see a turn around in the image of the game. they need to get it all out in the open now, so names don't continue to slowly leak out and refresh peoples memories of how corrupt this game was for a while.

[more heart]

and you're from St. Louis, hmmmmmmm...

[startBBtoday]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marisro01.shtml

i have absolutely no idea why you linked me to roger maris. the year before maris hit 61, had he played 160 games he could have easily hit between 50-60 home runs.

preppy said pretty much everything i would have cared to say on the matter. brady anderson hit 24% of his career home runs in one season, that's more than a little suspicious.

[preppyak]

there needs to be some disciplinary action on the players who used
No

Their names need to be out there so it can affect their future ability to make teams, make the HOF, sign endorsement deals, etc...but you cannot hand down suspensions 6 years later like that

[Duexy]

i like trucsk

[startBBtoday]

Bonds has positive tests floating around that the media knows about. Anderson wasn't even in the goddamned Mitchell Report.

this is so dumb. people who think the mitchell report in an end-all be-all of steroid users have no idea what they're talking about. the people interviewed for the mitchell report obviously didn't work with every single player in the league. there were only two red sox players named in the entire mitchell report, there's no way manny alexander and paxton crawford were the only red sox using steroids...

[Adeniz19]

i have absolutely no idea why you linked me to roger maris. the year before maris hit 61, had he played 160 games he could have easily hit between 50-60 home runs.

preppy said pretty much everything i would have cared to say on the matter. brady anderson hit 24% of his career home runs in one season, that's more than a little suspicious.no he wouldnt of. the year before he hit 61, he hit a home run 7.8% of his at-bats, while in '61 he hit one over 10% of the time.

[FondestMemory]

baseball isn't dead. people will still watch and go to the games. this might be a selfish thing to say, but being a giants fan, i'm glad all of this is finally getting out there and finally not having barry singled out on this issue. i wish they would release the rest of the names from the testing. there needs to be some disciplinary action on the players who used (i realize it technically wasn't illegal at the time for a-rod or others to use, but that still doesnt change the image of baseball today), and only then can we see a turn around in the image of the game. they need to get it all out in the open now, so names don't continue to slowly leak out and refresh peoples memories of how corrupt this game was for a while.

you can't hand out suspensions to players from six years ago that tested positive for steroids that there wasn't even a policy in place against based on tests that were agreed upon by the union based solely on the fact that they would be kept completely anonymous.

it's bad enough arod's name got out, the rest of the names need to be kept where they belong, which is confidential.

[ACA]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/anderbr01.shtml

just to be clear im quoting you the second time

and sitting here laughing my fucking ass off out loud

thank you :)

[startBBtoday]

also, the idea that alex rodriguez, a player almost universally disliked by fans of all 30 teams, could kill baseball is absurd.

[Adeniz19]

No

Their names need to be out there so it can affect their future ability to make teams, make the HOF, sign endorsement deals, etc...but you cannot hand down suspensions 6 years later like thatyea, i guess you're right. i just think it would go a long way to change the image of the game. it wouldn't have to be anything drastic... but yea

[startBBtoday]

no he wouldnt of. the year before he hit 61, he hit a home run 7.8% of his at-bats, while in '61 he hit one over 10% of the time.

okay, he would have hit 46, and going from 46 to 61 is still a whole lot different than going from 16 to 50.

[TK]

Baseball has always been my least favorite sport to watch anyway

[CubbyNick42]

also, the idea that alex rodriguez, a player almost universally disliked by fans of all 30 teams, could kill baseball is absurd.
/thread

[Adeniz19]

it's bad enough arod's name got out, the rest of the names need to be kept where they belong, which is confidential.it's bad enough? i guess what you don't know can't hurt you haha the names need to get out if they ever want to get past all of this. i'm getting tired of being lied to.

[CubbyNick42]

The players were tested under the condition that their names wouldn't be released.

[FondestMemory]

it's bad enough? i guess what you don't know can't hurt you haha the names need to get out if they ever want to get past all of this. i'm getting tired of being lied to.

and how exactly does getting the names out there get past this?

major league baseball made a deal with the union that the tests would be kept anonymous. somebody from inside the mlb side leaked arod's name. that's not good for the relationship between the union and mlb. if all the other names come out, that will do nothing but further hurt that relationship.

and as far as the sport is concerned, the union and the league not getting along is much more dangerous to the game than knowing the names of players who failed a test 6 years ago before it was even frowned upon by the league.

in this case, what you don't know can't help you.

[Adeniz19]

The players were tested under the condition that their names wouldn't be released.i understand that, but as a fan of the sport, don't you want to know if your favorite player cheated? it's more than likely that these names will leak out eventually, i just think it's smart to get them out sooner then later so this story doesnt continue to drag.

[FondestMemory]

putting the names out there will allow this story to continue to drag.

[live.]

this is so dumb. people who think the mitchell report in an end-all be-all of steroid users have no idea what they're talking about. the people interviewed for the mitchell report obviously didn't work with every single player in the league. there were only two red sox players named in the entire mitchell report, there's no way manny alexander and paxton crawford were the only red sox using steroids...

The fact that I used the report in the context of "wasn't even in the goddamned..." should have relayed that I think it's a very basic and not very reliable source. The fact is, NOWHERE is Brady Anderson linked to steroids. Not by former teammates, by trainers, NOWHERE. A couple of people have spoken out about his '96 campaign to witch even Ripken has come to his defense. This is a perfect example for the state of the game. Nobody could have a breakout season without being accused of steroids.

i have absolutely no idea why you linked me to roger maris. the year before maris hit 61, had he played 160 games he could have easily hit between 50-60 home runs.

preppy said pretty much everything i would have cared to say on the matter. brady anderson hit 24% of his career home runs in one season, that's more than a little suspicious.

So was Davey Johnson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsda02.shtml) on steroids in 1973? Flukes exist. Get over it.

[startBBtoday]

The fact that I used the report in the context of "wasn't even in the goddamned..." should have relayed that I think it's a very basic and not very reliable source. The fact is, NOWHERE is Brady Anderson linked to steroids. Not by former teammates, by trainers, NOWHERE. A couple of people have spoken out about his '96 campaign to witch even Ripken has come to his defense. This is a perfect example for the state of the game. Nobody could have a breakout season without being accused of steroids.



So was Davey Johnson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsda02.shtml) on steroids in 1973? Flukes exist. Get over it.

okay, you're right, there is no solid proof that brady anderson did steroids, but the fact that he was playing on the 90s orioles and he had a huge fluke of a 50 home runs season points a lot of speculation in that direction. i don't completely understand your defense of brady, is he your uncle or something?

i have no defense with the davey johnson argument, nice job.. i have no idea how that happened and i can only assume it's a typo.

[live.]

okay, you're right, there is no solid proof that brady anderson did steroids, but the fact that he was playing on the 90s orioles and he had a huge fluke of a 50 home runs season points a lot of speculation in that direction. i don't completely understand your defense of brady, is he your uncle or something?

i have no defense with the davey johnson argument, nice job.. i have no idea how that happened and i can only assume it's a typo.

Haha naw I don't even like him. I'm just frustrated with the state of the game and how every break out season is steroid related. It's a shame. I'm just trying to defend the chance that he was clean. As far as Johnson, it was no typo but a legit fluke.

Long story short, you did sum up the thread perfectly with this:

also, the idea that alex rodriguez, a player almost universally disliked by fans of all 30 teams, could kill baseball is absurd.

[Big_Guy]

well, Ken Griffey Jr. still has credibility. thank god cuz I love him

[LastPlaceRocks]

Well it's good to see that baseball could survive the dead ball era, Ty Cobb, Federal League, racism and the Negro Leagues, WWII, the DH, multiple strikes and the Montreal Expos only to keel over to Alex Rodriguez using steroids.

[Shark90576]

The fact that I used the report in the context of "wasn't even in the goddamned..." should have relayed that I think it's a very basic and not very reliable source. The fact is, NOWHERE is Brady Anderson linked to steroids. Not by former teammates, by trainers, NOWHERE. A couple of people have spoken out about his '96 campaign to witch even Ripken has come to his defense. This is a perfect example for the state of the game. Nobody could have a breakout season without being accused of steroids.



So was Davey Johnson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsda02.shtml) on steroids in 1973? Flukes exist. Get over it.

Well, obviously take this with a HUGE grain of salt...

I am a merchandiser with Nabisco and one of the sales representatives I work with is from the Baltimore area, was at a bar one night and Brady Anderson was there and (again take this in whatever way you want) supposedly told my co-worker that he used steroids.

Why would he do that? Maybe he was too drunk to know what he said, and who knows if this guy was even telling me the truth, but yeah, just thought I'd share the story or whatever, you guys can run with it if you'd like, but again, this isn't and can't be confirmed by me to be 100% true.

[preppyak]

hahaha...the Katie Couric footage of A-rod is hilarious...I love that he pauses after the question 'have you ever been tempted to take them', then says "No!"

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3624192n

[rcrook]

the 60 minutes interview he twitches after they ask him the question about taking steroids, kind of like dom in that episode of entourage when he steals the shrek doll.

[J.C.]

The 60 Minutes interview is so awesome. That's gonna be getting a lot of play.

[preppyak]

He's got this great mouth twitch right before he answers questions...especially the "you never felt like, these players are using, maybe you should" question

edit: No homo?

[rcrook]

n1ABIYViVLo

the twitch at 1:00 look for it

[preppyak]

haha...he does it again at 1:12...but that first one is a borderline seizure

[imirish06]

The more and more I hear of these great players coming up positive. The more and more I get angry that Griffey is not the one setting/on track to beat these records.

[Ben09]

The more and more I hear of these great players coming up positive. The more and more I get angry that Griffey is not the one setting/on track to beat these records.

Well, abusing steroids does make you more prone to injury so....

[bigmike]

I could not care less about this ARod allegation.

[imirish06]

Well, abusing steroids does make you more prone to injury so....

So does running into a wall to catch a ball. lol

I understand what you're saying though.

[Ben09]

He's never tested positive so I give Jr the benefit of the doubt. It's just that you don't really know whether someone has or hasn't at this point.

[CubbyNick42]

I could not care less about this ARod allegation.
Hahaha, easily the least-surprising post in this thread.

[bigmike]

Hahaha, easily the least-surprising post in this thread.
I don't. And I'd like to know why no media outlets post this excerpt from Joe Torres book:

Rodriguez did impress his teammates with a relentless work ethic. They found him to be the baseball equivalent of a gym rat. He knew everything going on around baseball and he never stopped working. One night in 2007 he showed up in the dugout 10 minutes before the first pitch with blood dripping from his hands and knees. "What the hell happened to you?" somebody asked. Rodriguez explained that he just had been running full tilt on the treadmill in the weight room when the belt broke and he went flying off the back end of the machine, skinning his hands and knees as he was thrown into a wall. Who the hell ran at sprinting speed on a treadmill right before a game was about to start? The most talented player in baseball did. That was A-Rod, too. "Nobody has ever worked harder in my memory than this guy," [Joe] Torre said. "Jeter, I'm sure he does his weight work in the wintertime. In the summertime he gets dressed and gets the hell out of there. He doesn't hang out. Nobody's in better shape than Alex. Nobody works harder than Alex. For a star player, who gets there as early as he gets there, and still he might hear Coach Larry Bowa say, 'You need to take groundballs.' And he'll do whatever it takes. He'll do it all the time. He's just a workaholic." Said Bowa, "If he missed on a slow roller, the next day he's out there early and we're working on slow rollers. If he missed a backhand, the next day we're working on backhands. This guy would be the first one to admit, 'I need to work on that,' or, 'I didn't approach that ball the right way, so let's go work on it.' And that's why he was such a great player."

Oh no. An athlete who got to the highest level of his craft, something that only happens when one possess the best of the best in terms of competitiveness, looked for an edge that every single player of every single year, decade, generation before them looked for.

The only scandal's that will bother me about baseball are gambling ones. David Pinto at Baseball Musings summed that up for me very well saying that steroids is cheating to win. Gambling is cheating to lose. Until someone starts going all Black Sox Scandal on us, what they use in their bodies (when probably upwards of a quarter of the entire league was using something), is of no concern to me.

[aloneatlastnj]

I don't. And I'd like to know why no media outlets post this excerpt from Joe Torres book:



Oh no. An athlete who got to the highest level of his craft, something that only happens when one possess the best of the best in terms of competitiveness, looked for an edge that every single player of every single year, decade, generation before them looked for.

The only scandal's that will bother me about baseball are gambling ones. David Pinto at Baseball Musings summed that up for me very well saying that steroids is cheating to win. Gambling is cheating to lose. Until someone starts going all Black Sox Scandal on us, what they use in their bodies (when probably upwards of a quarter of the entire league was using something), is of no concern to me.

i'm not quite sure what you're getting at - but i, too, feel the same way you do when it comes to steroids. it just really fucking sucks as a yankees fan to have to hear this about a guy who's done every damn thing possible to be accepted on that ball club, and who was FINALLY starting to get the fucking respect he deserved from media and fans.

[bigmike]

i'm not quite sure what you're getting at - but i, too, feel the same way you do when it comes to steroids. it just really fucking sucks as a yankees fan to have to hear this about a guy who's done every damn thing possible to be accepted on that ball club, and who was FINALLY starting to get the fucking respect he deserved from media and fans.
I just went on a little tangent that somehow incorporated me thinking that a gambling scandal is infinitely worse than a steroid scandal. And I got that part from Torre's book from Rob Neyer's blog on ESPN. It's the first time I'd seen it and I would like to see a media outlet share that, in conjunction with Torre's slams on ARod.

[more heart]

I think the OP killed baseball

[lushintransit]

Sure...plenty of people watch for the stars...but, they won't be affected by this either because there is still CC, Manny, Pujols, etc to watch. Shit, even the casual Yankees fan shouldn't be put off because they have Texiera and CC coming in among others.

The news is that he tested positive...but, the actual effect is pretty insignificant, beyond that its one more person we know used...if this is the news that disenchants a fan, then they have been in a whole for the last 3 years

If Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco saying that 25% of players used...and the general nightmare of all of that didn't disenchant a fan, but A-Rod using does, then just, wow

edit: The only thing this really changes is that, if A-rod has an off season, he's gonna get RIPPED by the fans. That sympathetic figure he sort of had is now gone, after Torre's book and this

For real fans, this isn't going to ruin the sport. But for a lot of the people jumped on the baseball bandwagon because of players like him...this basically shot the sport to hell in a hand basket.

[lushintransit]

Or because he's one of the best at hitting a ball over the fence. Even the most unpersonable ogre would get that kind of money with the numbers he's put up and the agent he has. It has almost zero to do with his marketability.

In 2008, he made 28K and batted a .302. In 2007, he batted a .314 and made 6 grand less though he was hitting better. He ranked 15th in the NL for the year and wasn't even the first Yankee in the top 15. Joe Mauer hit a .328 in '08 and lead the league and made a little over 6 grand or something. What were you saying about people getting paid big money for being the best for hitting a ball over a fence?

[bigmike]

In 2008, he made 28K and batted a .302. In 2007, he batted a .314 and made 6 grand less though he was hitting better. He ranked 15th in the NL for the year and wasn't even the first Yankee in the top 15. Joe Mauer hit a .328 in '08 and lead the league and made a little over 6 grand or something. What were you saying about people getting paid big money for being the best for hitting a ball over a fence?
Oh, I'm sorry. We're going to have to ask you to leave, collect your thoughts, and return when you're willing to put together some coherent sentences. Thanks!

[ForlrnPerplxity]

what in the fuck

[CubbyNick42]

Mrs. Mike?

[live.]

Well, obviously take this with a HUGE grain of salt...

I am a merchandiser with Nabisco and one of the sales representatives I work with is from the Baltimore area, was at a bar one night and Brady Anderson was there and (again take this in whatever way you want) supposedly told my co-worker that he used steroids.

Why would he do that? Maybe he was too drunk to know what he said, and who knows if this guy was even telling me the truth, but yeah, just thought I'd share the story or whatever, you guys can run with it if you'd like, but again, this isn't and can't be confirmed by me to be 100% true.

Hey man, if I had that evidence then I would use it. The fact is the casual baseball fan won't know that. His name has not been attached to anything enhancing but his fluke. year

[Big_Guy]

Well, abusing steroids does make you more prone to injury so....

haha, I refuse to believe that The Kid did steroids

[FondestMemory]

wouldn't shock me if he did though.

there isn't a single name that would surprise me if info came out linking them.

[rcrook]

In 2008, he made 28K and batted a .302. In 2007, he batted a .314 and made 6 grand less though he was hitting better. He ranked 15th in the NL for the year and wasn't even the first Yankee in the top 15. Joe Mauer hit a .328 in '08 and lead the league and made a little over 6 grand or something. What were you saying about people getting paid big money for being the best for hitting a ball over a fence?

illegal immigrants in this state make more than 6 grand a year and although there is a big language barrier they know arod has played in the AL his whole life.

[rcrook]

wouldn't shock me if he did though.

there isn't a single name that would surprise me if info came out linking them.

not even khalil greene?!!!?

[StandMyBrothers]

Khalil Greene is Baha'i Faith, he'd never do drugs!

[Momo32T]

I'm just disappointed. Even though people think A-Rod is a pretty shitty person, I always defended him by saying, "At least he plays the game right." I don't think I can make that argument anymore. I hope this stuff isn't true.

[rcrook]

if only joe torre knew about this before his book....

[blimpcityhero11]

While A-Roid has been one of the best players in baseball, I think the shock value for this isn't very high considering everyone hates the guy. If someone like Griffey or Jeter came up, there would probably be a shitstorm.

[CubbyNick42]

Maddux is the only guy that would be shock me.

[OveriseFan]

In 2008, he made 28K and batted a .302. In 2007, he batted a .314 and made 6 grand less though he was hitting better. He ranked 15th in the NL for the year and wasn't even the first Yankee in the top 15. Joe Mauer hit a .328 in '08 and lead the league and made a little over 6 grand or something. What were you saying about people getting paid big money for being the best for hitting a ball over a fence?

It's all about years of service. Once Mauer becomes a free agent (I believe it's next year, isn't it?) he's going to get a big pay day. (Although let's not act like he hasn't been making a ton of money, he made over 6 million last year.)

Also, Mauer isn't really a power hitter...

Edit: I've been re-reading your post, and realize now... I have no idea what you're talking about, actually. Who's the person you're talking about in the first sentence when you say "he"? A-Rod certainly made much more money than 28K. Hell, that's below league minimum... Also, you need to understand (most) baseball contracts, or just contracts in general. The bigger money usually comes toward the end of the contract in a long term deal... So each year you make more money... It's not like the Yankees can say "Sorry, you're hitting 12 points lower (even though you're still hitting over .300...) so we're going to take away a couple million." That's ridiculous.

[live.]

I feel like he did that 60 Minutes interview with the confidence that he'd never get caught, which makes me skeptical that he used for a long time. He realized his 2003 results, whatever they were, were supposed to be destroyed. He probably didn't plan on ever testing positive, so he made those striking denials.

[live.]

Well, obviously take this with a HUGE grain of salt...

I am a merchandiser with Nabisco and one of the sales representatives I work with is from the Baltimore area, was at a bar one night and Brady Anderson was there and (again take this in whatever way you want) supposedly told my co-worker that he used steroids.

Why would he do that? Maybe he was too drunk to know what he said, and who knows if this guy was even telling me the truth, but yeah, just thought I'd share the story or whatever, you guys can run with it if you'd like, but again, this isn't and can't be confirmed by me to be 100% true.

Hey I can't compete with you if he said that, but we'll never know for sure.

[Chris M.]

In 2008, he made 28K and batted a .302. In 2007, he batted a .314 and made 6 grand less though he was hitting better. He ranked 15th in the NL for the year and wasn't even the first Yankee in the top 15. Joe Mauer hit a .328 in '08 and lead the league and made a little over 6 grand or something. What were you saying about people getting paid big money for being the best for hitting a ball over a fence?

hahahahaha 28K...my mom makes more than that per year.

[FondestMemory]

but your mom doesn't manage to be in the top 15 in the nl despite playing for the yankees.

[Spicoli hey bud]

And you probably wouldn't fuck A-rod...

[FondestMemory]

i'm not sure which is worse: having your career forever tarnished by a positive steroid test or having sex with madonna.

[preppyak]

i'm not sure which is worse: having your career forever tarnished by a positive steroid test or having sex with madonna.
having sex with Madonna, no doubt...steroids only ruins his baseball career, having sex with Madonna could destroy your psyche...because its like having sex with Sean Penn, Warren Beatty, Vanilla Ice, Guy Ritchie, Dennis Rodman, etc.

I mean, at least steroids helped him win an MVP...having sex with Madonna can basically only help you hate your life...and if it causes a divorce, he'll lose a ton of money from it

[speakhandsforme]

I elect Albert Pujols to assume the obligatory throne of the "clean superstar" who still represents an even playing field.

But, seriously, people need to stop looking for a savior. The public does not know enough to ever invest that much into a player.

[speakhandsforme]

but your mom doesn't manage to be in the top 15 in the nl despite playing for the yankees.

I was wondering if someone would notice that.

[Spicoli hey bud]

I elect you as the king of crack mountain.

[FondestMemory]

yeah, i have no belief in the idea that pujols is clean.

[speakhandsforme]

It was a joke, boys.

[CubbyNick42]

yeah, i have no belief in the idea that pujols is clean.
Same here.

[ForlrnPerplxity]

There's no reason to think Pujols isn't clean. There hasn't been anything to link him to steroids.

[preppyak]

There's no reason to think Pujols isn't clean. There hasn't been anything to link him to steroids.
(thinks back to A-rod)...the odds are basically 5:1 that he used...at least

The only thing that ever linked A-rod was a random mention from Canseco that seemed a lot more like a cry for attention that an actual accusation

[ForlrnPerplxity]

(thinks back to A-rod)...the odds are basically 5:1 that he used...at least

The only thing that ever linked A-rod was a random mention from Canseco that seemed a lot more like a cry for attention that an actual accusation
5:1? Come on. There is absolutely no type of proof or justification for giving those type of odds. The only reason fans will link him to steroids is because of the fact that he's the best player in baseball. I'm not saying there's no chance he did them, but just to assume that he took steroids because he's such a good player and others have done it and been caught is such a false argument. There have been absolutely no links to him and steroids, and I hate the fact that it's natural for him to just be included in these arguments just because he's a really good hitter. Also, it's funny that Canseco is the only guy who has come out of this looking legitimate. Anything said by him that's condemning to a certain player is pretty damning.

[OveriseFan]

There's no reason to think Pujols isn't clean. There hasn't been anything to link him to steroids.

There's a difference, and I don't know why, between someone like Pujols and someone like Griffey, or Maddux...

We won't ever know EVERYONE who did them, and really, I'm not sure I even want to. However, I don't understand how you can be so naive to think that just because "there hasn't been anything to link him to steroids" that means he's clean.

[OveriseFan]

5:1? Come on. There is absolutely no type of proof or justification for giving those type of odds. The only reason fans will link him to steroids is because of the fact that he's the best player in baseball. I'm not saying there's no chance he did them, but just to assume that he took steroids because he's such a good player and others have done it and been caught is such a false argument. There have been absolutely no links to him and steroids, and I hate the fact that it's natural for him to just be included in these arguments just because he's a really good hitter. Also, it's funny that Canseco is the only guy who has come out of this looking legitimate. Anything said by him that's condemning to a certain player is pretty damning.

I want to clarify, too, that I don't necessarily think that Pujols ever used steroids. I have no idea. It's kind of ridiculous to assume that you know one way or the other, I think...

But you're right, we don't want to just assume someone used/uses steroids just because they're a great baseball player. There were great baseball players before steroids, and will continue to be great, clean, baseball players.

[ForlrnPerplxity]

I just said that I don't think there's no chance that Pujols didn't take steroids, but saying there's that great of a chance that he did take them is just a false argument. And I don't know why you would think there's a difference between Pujols and a guy like Griffey in taking steroids.

[OveriseFan]

I just said that I don't think there's no chance that Pujols didn't take steroids, but saying there's that great of a chance that he did take them is just a false argument. And I don't know why you would think there's a difference between Pujols and a guy like Griffey in taking steroids.

I saw that part after I posted - sorry.

I said, I don't understand it, but among baseball fans and writers there seems to be a greater conviction for Griffey being clean than Pujols.

[ActorInThisPlay]

according to an espn.com poll...64% of people would have taken performance enhancing drugs if it guaranteed them a $250 million contract like A-Rod. seems a little hypocritical for people to come down so hard on these guys when they would have most likely done the same thing.

[kshtoinks12]

I'm coming to terms with this whole thing...hard. I'll never ever say with certainty that a specific player isn't using roids.

[bigmike]

according to an espn.com poll...64% of people would have taken performance enhancing drugs if it guaranteed them a $250 million contract like A-Rod. seems a little hypocritical for people to come down so hard on these guys when they would have most likely done the same thing.
Glad to see 36% of the people taking that poll are flat out lying to themselves. Well done, America.

[rcrook]

i voted yes

[FondestMemory]

There's no reason to think Pujols isn't clean. There hasn't been anything to link him to steroids.

there's no reason for me to think he is clean.

[kbauer]

as far as im concerned everyone is juicing or has been. including old dudes like griffey and thomas and the newer generation of power hitters like howard and cabrera. even manny, i dont really trust. arod didnt scorn me, i always thought he was because he got bigger from his time in seattle to texas. but somewhere a long the line, i woke up and realized most professional atheletes are juicing for competetions sake and more so, the more you produce, the more you command.
its most likely a problem not just in baseball but probably more prevelent in the nfl (but its the nfl and everyone loves it, so its ok) and im sure it goes on in the nhl (but its the nhl and no one cares.) i dont see it going on so often in the nba, im sure some players do but it dosent seem as nessacery in a game like basketball where strentgh isnt that big of a tool for 2 or 3 players on the court.
i think i came to an assumption, when in high school on my baseball team, on the football team and wrestling team, majority of my classmates at 15, 16, 17, 18 at a public school with no scouting, were taking steroids. if they had that high of a competitive drive, professional atheletes would have to be looking for an edge. as i cover college sports today on a relatively small scale, i still know atheletes who are juicing. its that prevelent.

so i dont care. as bigmike has said in the past, its like the segragation era. it was a dark period where things were backwards, but you cant erase history. its going to continue to. these players have enough money and connections to stay 3 steps ahead of testing to get an advantage. so i just look at who is the best from bonds and clemens to arod, through out this period of time. its become a level playing field and in an era of steriods, these guys were the best and probably would had been the best without the roids.

[Scott Weber]

baseball just needs to release all the names so we can move on. this scapegoating shit is unfair and bad for the game.

[Spicoli hey bud]

I'm sick of this shit already. It's going to turn casual baseball fans into the same persona as the people who say the NBA sucks because professional basketball players have no heart/are lazy/don't try/etc.

For the rest of us, who gives a shit, let's move on while the media tears baseball a new asshole.

[marrost]

i always wonder about the next stage of "performance enhancement," decades from now. imagine when the robotics field becomes publicly advanced to the point that someone with a reconstructed arm shows up who can throw 120 mph for 9 innings.

[preppyak]

i always wonder about the next stage of "performance enhancement," decades from now. imagine when the robotics field becomes publicly advanced to the point that someone with a reconstructed arm shows up who can throw 120 mph for 9 innings.
Yeah...cause the same organization that was afraid of instant replay corrupting their sport is going to allow someone with that advantage to play

[marrost]

Yeah...cause the same organization that was afraid of instant replay corrupting their sport is going to allow someone with that advantage to playwasn't talking strictly baseball, but genetic enhancement is only in its infancy. along with bionics there are a lot of studies being done on brain implants and such. obviously someone like that won't just walk right into any major sporting league, but a whole new set of ethical debates is sure to arise in the near future, as that type of shit is closer than we think.

just saying performance enhancement is a subject that will become much more interesting over time. with the speed that technology is moving, its possible that late in our lives we will look back and laugh that steroids are what were used to provide a physical advantage.

i don't know, its an interesting subject to me, and sports leagues are some of the places where there will obviously be a large, controversial impact.

[Drew Beringer]

i always wonder about the next stage of "performance enhancement," decades from now. imagine when the robotics field becomes publicly advanced to the point that someone with a reconstructed arm shows up who can throw 120 mph for 9 innings.
http://www.impawards.com/1993/posters/rookie_of_the_year.jpg

[marrost]

hahah

http://www.neo-geo.com/snk/screenshots/2020%20super%20baseball1.gif

only 11 more years.

[Drew Beringer]

hahah

http://www.neo-geo.com/snk/screenshots/2020%20super%20baseball1.gif

only 11 more years.
best game ever.

[Kaleidoscope]

The fact of the matter is baseball is more popular than it has ever been. Revenue is up for every team and the MLB as a whole. Believe it or not records being broken and home runs going out of the park was the best thing that ever happened to baseball. I am a die-hard fan, and I am completely over the steroids issue. Over 50% of players did it. There was no rule against it. Now there is. It's over with. The only reason these stories get popular is because the blood sucking population loves to hear bad news. Baseball is moving forward. All these 'leaks' do is set back the sport. Sports writers and the national media need to have morals... but we all know that is impossible so this post is pointless.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

A-Rod admits, regrets use of PEDs (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)

His voice shaking at times, Alex Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3115) met head-on allegations that he tested positive for steroids six years ago, telling ESPN on Monday that he did take performance-enhancing drugs while playing for the Texas Rangers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex) during a three-year period beginning in 2001.

[Kaleidoscope]

thread dead.

[preppyak]

thread dead.
wtf?

[preppyak]

There was no rule against it. Now there is. It's over with.
Really? You assume that just because they test for certain kinds of performance enhancers, its over with and nobody uses...

I'm guessing they just found a new form that passes through the body faster, masks better, and can't be tested for yet. Heck, they just found a test for HGH...I bet the players are 4 steps past HGH already

[Montauk1222]

At least he owned up to using when accused of it

[domotime2]

Mike Piazza is the man.

[Smithers]

i give the guy credit for being a man about it instead of going the Roger Clemens route.

[rcrook]

Andy Pettite is not as high profile as A-Rod but he told the truth and now we could really care less that he did it. It won't be the same with A-Rod but coming clean will help you save face.

[xerovision1]

yep...because McGwire and Sosa hadn't already ruined it...along with Bonds.

I'm guessing you were too young to remember that baseball was dead and forgotten as a sport until Sosa/McGwire saved it with that one season...and then we found out it was tainted. That A-rod used is perhaps icing on the cake at best

and define "kill the sport"...doesn't baseball NOT have to be having record ticket sales for the sport to be killed?

edit: basically, shut the fuck up

lmao best

[preppyak]

i give the guy credit for being a man about it instead of going the Roger Clemens route.
At least he owned up to using when accused of itI agree in part, but, Petite didn't have a national interview two years prior where he openly denied it...so, it definitely won't go away fully for A-rod.

At least he admitted it, and he got some people off his back simply by admitting he used "back then".

[live.]

Mike Piazza is the man.

qft

[about3fitty]

tony kornheiser just ripped a-rod and had me cracking up. he said "if you're going to take steriods, at least take the good kind. the kind that let you get hits after the seventh inning."

[preppyak]

Ok...watching this interview, its clear A-rod doesn't give a damn, he's only mad he got caught, he won't even say what he took.

[OveriseFan]

Ok...watching this interview, its clear A-rod doesn't give a damn, he's only mad he got caught, he won't even say what he took.

Definitely agree with you.

I've read commentary where people say that they could tell A-Rod was emotional, or even choked up. Maybe I'm missing it, but I really feel like he was NOT all that emotional, most of it seemed scripted, and frankly, it seems like he doesn't really care.

[about3fitty]

at least this got everyone to forget about michael phelps

[Kaleidoscope]

Really? You assume that just because they test for certain kinds of performance enhancers, its over with and nobody uses...

I'm guessing they just found a new form that passes through the body faster, masks better, and can't be tested for yet. Heck, they just found a test for HGH...I bet the players are 4 steps past HGH already


I'm not saying the use is over. I'm saying the drooling over it that the media does should be over. In every sport people are cheating... so what if they're 4 steps past HGH? why do we care? its always going to be that way. there is no fixing it. just do the best you can to prevent it.

[silentstar1134]

at least this got everyone to forget about michael phelps

haha yes...Is anyone really shocked about this? I saw this coming.

[Chris Fallon]

Gammons interview was predictable, but at least he didn't scoot around anything, just flat-out confessed it all (to a point... he didn't deny anything). I give him props for doing that, being a bigger man than some guys have been. Put an asterisk next to three season stats, let him in the hall -- he's still an outstanding athlete.

[Kaleidoscope]

haha yes...Is anyone really shocked about this? I saw this coming.

i'll be shocked if david eckstein's name is released

[sjb2k1]

tony kornheiser just ripped a-rod and had me cracking up. he said "if you're going to take steriods, at least take the good kind. the kind that let you get hits after the seventh inning."
LOLLLLL so true.


i knew it was too good to be true. jackass would be a hall of famer without them. sigh.

[xbrokendownx]

you knew it was too good to be true, but you think he'd be a hall of famer without them? those 2 sentences dont match up

[Scott Weber]

kornheiser has been reduced to buzz words and recycled jokes. i'm convinced that guy actually knows very little about sports in detail.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

does he even write anymore or is he totally a talking head now?

[Smithers]

Definitely agree with you.

I've read commentary where people say that they could tell A-Rod was emotional, or even choked up. Maybe I'm missing it, but I really feel like he was NOT all that emotional, most of it seemed scripted, and frankly, it seems like he doesn't really care.

after watching the interview, i want to half-take back my words for manning up and admitting it. i find it very hard to believe that he "didn't know" what he failed the test for. he definitely got the short end of the stick because there are 103 other names and he's the only one who has to answer these questions, but telling everyone he didn't know what he was taking is bullshit, IMO.

[jaimej]

I didn't watch the interview, because I don't fucking care. We knew this was a problem years ago, when this test was given. Why was his name released and no one elses? It's stupid.

[preppyak]

after watching the interview, i want to half-take back my words for manning up and admitting it. i find it very hard to believe that he "didn't know" what he failed the test for. he definitely got the short end of the stick because there are 103 other names and he's the only one who has to answer these questions, but telling everyone he didn't know what he was taking is bullshit, IMO.
I'm still suprised even Peter Gamons was saying it was "emotional"...he came off as extremely practiced, and when he didn't have a good answer, he would stammer for 10 seconds before dodging the question. He didn't say what he took, or the time frame, or who gave it to him...because he knows those would all be fodder for federal investigation.

Still better than Roger Clemens' denial, but, he could have really cleared up a lot of issues that he just left linger

[live.]

I'm still suprised even Peter Gamons was saying it was "emotional"...he came off as extremely practiced, and when he didn't have a good answer, he would stammer for 10 seconds before dodging the question. He didn't say what he took, or the time frame, or who gave it to him...because he knows those would all be fodder for federal investigation.

Still better than Roger Clemens' denial, but, he could have really cleared up a lot of issues that he just left linger

Did it ever occur to you that maybe he really didn't know what he was taking? He just grabbed a bunch of stuff and started putting it in his body, and one of those things - which he can't determine because he hasn't see the test - triggered a positive. He said in the interview if he sees the test he can answer specific questions. Look, he admitted it. Does it really matter who gave it to him? If the feds decide to investigate it, they will, and then we can criticize him for avoiding that question. What human in their right mind would open their own federal investigation? Maybe one who, instead of taking responsibility himself, focuses on that very "who gave it to you" question and puts the blame on that person. a.k.a. Roger Clemens.

As far as him being "extremely practiced", Peter Gammons said he spent the night before with A-Rod who wasn't premeditating anything. He never told Peter he took anything until the camera turned on. I'm sure the first few sentences he thought through over and over - but wouldn't you?

[rcrook]

If you're going to take peformance enhancing drugs you're gonna know what you're taking. You just don't grab a bunch of random drugs and throw them in your body. You might be the worst poster in the sports forum.

[Bigalan2004]

yeah seriously, if you are making multi-millions you would be extremely self-conscious of what goes into your body. if you honestly believe that he just popped a bunch of random pills and had no clue what they were then you are nuts.

[preppyak]

If you're going to take peformance enhancing drugs you're gonna know what you're taking. You just don't grab a bunch of random drugs and throw them in your body. You might be the worst poster in the sports forum.
Seriously...I can understand maybe not knowing the full medical name, but, every drug has a nickname and he had to know at least that much. He deliberately dodged the "who provided it to you" question, his answer was "it was a loosey goosey time"...and you don't think he's covering things up?

I bet you A-rod can tell you every supplement he's taken since he started playing baseball and what each and every element of his training regiment is...but, because he wasn't required to by law, he just dodged the questions. If he had come out and said "I took this drug from 2000-01, and this drug from 01-03" he'd probably have pretty much killed the story, because its believable and adds closure..."loosey goosey" doesn't

[xbrokendownx]

i agree that he definitely knows everything hes taken, but i also think he just may not have wanted to rat anyone out for providing it to him

[rcrook]

i agree that he definitely knows everything hes taken, but i also think he just may not have wanted to rat anyone out for providing it to him

well that's exactly what he did but to say he didn't know what he was taking is laughable to the tenth degree

[xbrokendownx]

and i agree with that

[sajamie81]

So let's bring on the 103 other guys that failed that same test A-Rod did.

[preppyak]

i agree that he definitely knows everything hes taken, but i also think he just may not have wanted to rat anyone out for providing it to himYep, thats probably exactly what it was (same reason he wouldn't give names, etc)...but, it also means he's trying to get away without taking the full brunt of what could come, so its hard to have much sympathy.

I'd love to see a player come out and admit their steroid use WITHOUT being caught

[live.]

If you're going to take peformance enhancing drugs you're gonna know what you're taking. You just don't grab a bunch of random drugs and throw them in your body. You might be the worst poster in the sports forum.

But that's exactly what he apologized for. He said he was stupid and naive for not asking more questions about what he was putting into his body. Even if he did know, I believe his apology was sincere, and just because he didn't admit what he took doesn't change my view. Also, I'm sorry you feel that way about my posting, because Peter Gammons happens to agree with most of what I've said here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3897102 (there's a box with a play button to an interview with Gammons on Mike & Mike)

[brandnizzle2419]

hahaha. sorry this is 3 days late.

I was actually most interested in baseball during the summer of 1998, when i was 8 years old, during the chase for the record. and you're right, baseball was dead. i mean the Braves and the Yankees were terrible during the 90's, and that one world series with the twins was boring as shit, you're right.
And sure, the HR chase encouraged more interest in the sport, as it should have, and sure the sport took a major hit when it came out that McGwire and everyone else was juicing, as it should have. but there was still hope with supposedly honest, fair players such as A-Rod. He was the league's best player, and their saving grace when push came to shove. And as an 8 year old, i was fully aware that McGwire and Bonds were juicing. I had baseball cards of both players at the beginning of their careers and then closer to 1998, so it didn't take much intuition to figure out they had a little help gaining so much muscle mass. That didn't kill baseball for me.

kill the sport: the sport has no reliability anymore. If their golden boy juices, how can we not suspect everyone else is as well? I understand thats a bit of a logical fallacy, but all of these players racking up incredible stats are always going to be suspected of juicing from now on, regardless of if they are or not, so i think its appropriate and realistic in this situation.
and let's just wait and see what the attendance is this year before we jump on that topic.

so, basically, shut the fuck up. A-Rod was supposed to be as good as, if not better than all of the greats (Gehrig, Mantle, Aaron, Ruth, etc.), and now he's got this big fat, steroid-coloured blemish on his record. It's a shame, but it's gunna take awhile before another A-Rod comes along to save baseball again.

yep...because McGwire and Sosa hadn't already ruined it...along with Bonds.

I'm guessing you were too young to remember that baseball was dead and forgotten as a sport until Sosa/McGwire saved it with that one season...and then we found out it was tainted. That A-rod used is perhaps icing on the cake at best

and define "kill the sport"...doesn't baseball NOT have to be having record ticket sales for the sport to be killed?

edit: basically, shut the fuck up

[preppyak]

It's a shame, but it's gunna take awhile before another A-Rod comes along to save baseball again.
I'm glad I read this part first instead of reading your whole book, because right there you showed you have no clue what you are talking about. I would love to hear how A-rod saved baseball...I can see the argument that McGwire and Sosa did...I could even see the argument that Barry Bonds hitting 73 reinvigorated it...where does A-rod come into any of that beyond signing a huge contract? Did Beckham signing a huge contract save the MLS?

People aren't going to baseball games in record numbers because they believe deep down most players are steroid free...and A-rod being guilty of using steroids doesn't betray that belief, cause it didn't exist. People went to games because baseball marketed itself well, it has a variety of stars on many teams that are performing well and make it worth going, steroids or not. They realized it just doesn't matter, as long as the games are good. They went to games because teams made it affordable and the experience of live baseball is awesome

The belief that A-rod saved baseball is absurd, much less that anyone even needs to come along and "save" baseball now, seeing as they'd be "saving" it from record attendance numbers

edit: I forgot your original post, because it explains everything
i want to see every current player tested before i regain my faith in the sport.You clearly believe that testing is gonna clear up the game...despite the fact they can't and aren't testing for a major performance enhancer in HGH...not to mention more advanced forms of steroids...and that baseball truly needs to convince fans that players aren't on steroids to be successful. In both cases, you'd be wrong

[CubbyNick42]

As Preppy mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread, those designing the latest cutting-edge steroids are always going to be four steps ahead of those doing the testing. It's the nature of the beast - you can't test for something that you don't know exists.

[preppyak]

As Preppy mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread, those designing the latest cutting-edge steroids are always going to be four steps ahead of those doing the testing. It's the nature of the beast - you can't test for something that you don't know exists.
I mean, people at the college I work at JUST figured out how to test for HGH...how many years later...the best baseball can do is what it did with A-rod essentially, find out a few years later that someone was taking a PE they didn't know about

[CubbyNick42]

Absolutely. I'd be surprised if the union allowed samples to be tested more than once, though.

[bigmike]

kornheiser has been reduced to buzz words and recycled jokes. i'm convinced that guy actually knows very little about sports in detail.
He's so fucking annoying. I used to think Chris Berman broadcasting golf was the an abomination of epic proportions, now it's just anytime ESPN gives Tony Kornheiser air time. What's his role in the booth on Monday nights? To be less witty and less funny and less knowledgeable than Dennis Miller? If so, A+ work thus far TK. He's single handedly (not to go all LWO) ruined MNF for me (and I"m not a big NFL fan but do enjoy watching the monday game).

[rcrook]

I really wish they got a better personality for PTI. I really like Wilbon, he knows his stuff especially when it comes to the NBA.

[about3fitty]

wilbon is the man. i wish he was my friends dad. that would be so cool

[bigmike]

I'm actually a big Dan Lebatard fan when he's on PTI.

[rcrook]

I like Lebatard, don't really like Bob Ryan on the show.

[bigmike]

Bob Ryan's terrible. JA Adande isn't unbearable, either.

[rcrook]

I'll take JA Adande over Bill Plaschke anyday. Plaschke sounds like Daffy Duck when he talks.

[Bigalan2004]

tony kornheiser reminds me of tony reali.

the guy i can't stand the most is skip bayless. TV would be better off without him.

[CubbyNick42]

Bayless is trying to piss you off. Don't give in.

[brandnizzle2419]

I'm glad I read this part first instead of reading your whole book, because right there you showed you have no clue what you are talking about. I would love to hear how A-rod saved baseball...I can see the argument that McGwire and Sosa did...I could even see the argument that Barry Bonds hitting 73 reinvigorated it...where does A-rod come into any of that beyond signing a huge contract? Did Beckham signing a huge contract save the MLS?

People aren't going to baseball games in record numbers because they believe deep down most players are steroid free...and A-rod being guilty of using steroids doesn't betray that belief, cause it didn't exist. People went to games because baseball marketed itself well, it has a variety of stars on many teams that are performing well and make it worth going, steroids or not. They realized it just doesn't matter, as long as the games are good. They went to games because teams made it affordable and the experience of live baseball is awesome

The belief that A-rod saved baseball is absurd, much less that anyone even needs to come along and "save" baseball now, seeing as they'd be "saving" it from record attendance numbers

edit: I forgot your original post, because it explains everything
You clearly believe that testing is gonna clear up the game...despite the fact they can't and aren't testing for a major performance enhancer in HGH...not to mention more advanced forms of steroids...and that baseball truly needs to convince fans that players aren't on steroids to be successful. In both cases, you'd be wrong

you're dumb. do you really believe that Barry fucking Bonds's fat ass is a better baseball player than A-Rod? Rodriguez is on pace to break an absurd amount of records by mantle, gehrig, ruth, whoever. Rodriguez is an insane player at the plate and on the field (either SS or 3b, which shows versatility). So it's not that Alex Rodriguez reached down and plucked the league from the fiery depths, and now the MLB is some sort of Sinner in the hands of an Angry God, thats not what i'm saying at all. You wanted to hear how he "saved" baseball? when people like Canseco and McGwire and Palmeiro and everyone else ended up testing positive, at least the league still had their best player who had an immaculate testing record. He was the best, and he was doing it without the drugs. He was going to break all of the records without the help of steroids like Bonds and McGwire. He represented hope throughout all of the congressional hearings, he was an example that there was still a shred of dignity left in baseball. and to a certain extent he still is: hes handling everything very well, but that doesn't change the fact that he used steroids and everyone will always bring that up for the rest of his career and when he gets on the HOF ballot.

so baseball might maintain their attendance, but i don't really think that counts for much. and keep in mind this came out in between seasons, so wait and see how attendance is this year. I'm not expecting empty stands, but i am expecting weary patrons who suspect every player on the field of juicing. so baseballs dead until the league can prove otherwise.

they need to get to the point where they have an efficient, up-to-date testing system that constantly evolves. couldn't be that hard, could it?

[FondestMemory]

you're dumb. do you really believe that Barry fucking Bonds's fat ass is a better baseball player than A-Rod? Rodriguez is on pace to break an absurd amount of records by mantle, gehrig, ruth, whoever. Rodriguez is an insane player at the plate and on the field (either SS or 3b, which shows versatility). So it's not that Alex Rodriguez reached down and plucked the league from the fiery depths, and now the MLB is some sort of Sinner in the hands of an Angry God, thats not what i'm saying at all. You wanted to hear how he "saved" baseball? when people like Canseco and McGwire and Palmeiro and everyone else ended up testing positive, at least the league still had their best player who had an immaculate testing record. He was the best, and he was doing it without the drugs. He was going to break all of the records without the help of steroids like Bonds and McGwire. He represented hope throughout all of the congressional hearings, he was an example that there was still a shred of dignity left in baseball. and to a certain extent he still is: hes handling everything very well, but that doesn't change the fact that he used steroids and everyone will always bring that up for the rest of his career and when he gets on the HOF ballot.

so baseball might maintain their attendance, but i don't really think that counts for much. and keep in mind this came out in between seasons, so wait and see how attendance is this year. I'm not expecting empty stands, but i am expecting weary patrons who suspect every player on the field of juicing. so baseballs dead until the league can prove otherwise.

they need to get to the point where they have an efficient, up-to-date testing system that constantly evolves. couldn't be that hard, could it?

1. first off, beginning your reply to preppy's well thought out, well worded response with "you're dumb" automatically makes me not give a shit what you have to say. but then i kept reading and things just got more ridiculous.

2. where did he ever say bonds was a better player than a-rod? he said sosa and mcgwire saved baseball (they did) and that bonds rejuvenated it with his season of 73 (he did). his point was that alex rodriguez never saved baseball (he hasn't).

3. so you think baseball may maintain their record breaking attendance of the past few years, but you don't think that counts for much? seriously? what's it count for? it shows that people don't care and that they're still gonna come out in record numbers to support the game they love. it shows that a day at the park is a perfect family event, and people are fully taking advantage of it. it shows that you don't have to be a giant fan to have a blast at a live baseball game. it shows that the league is at the strongest it's been popularity wise ever.

4. obviously an up to date ever evolving testing system is relatively hard, because there still isn't one. for every chemist working their ass off to figure out a way to test what the current drug is, there are five more developing the next one. the dirty will always be a few steps ahead of the clean. they're trying, it's clearly not as simple as you make it out to be.

so go ahead, you can declare baseball dead. the owners who are raking in the large sums of money and the players signing huge contracts as a benefit of all that may tend to disagree, but fuck them. the game they play is dead.

[aloneatlastnj]

you're dumb.do you really believe that Barry fucking Bonds's fat ass is a better baseball player than A-Rod? Rodriguez is on pace to break an absurd amount of records by mantle, gehrig, ruth, whoever. Rodriguez is an insane player at the plate and on the field (either SS or 3b, which shows versatility). So it's not that Alex Rodriguez reached down and plucked the league from the fiery depths, and now the MLB is some sort of Sinner in the hands of an Angry God, thats not what i'm saying at all. You wanted to hear how he "saved" baseball? when people like Canseco and McGwire and Palmeiro and everyone else ended up testing positive, at least the league still had their best player who had an immaculate testing record. He was the best, and he was doing it without the drugs. He was going to break all of the records without the help of steroids like Bonds and McGwire. He represented hope throughout all of the congressional hearings, he was an example that there was still a shred of dignity left in baseball. and to a certain extent he still is: hes handling everything very well, but that doesn't change the fact that he used steroids and everyone will always bring that up for the rest of his career and when he gets on the HOF ballot.

so baseball might maintain their attendance, but i don't really think that counts for much. and keep in mind this came out in between seasons, so wait and see how attendance is this year. I'm not expecting empty stands, but i am expecting weary patrons who suspect every player on the field of juicing. so baseballs dead until the league can prove otherwise.

they need to get to the point where they have an efficient, up-to-date testing system that constantly evolves. couldn't be that hard, could it?

so did bonds.

[Scott Weber]

you're dumb. do you really believe that Barry fucking Bonds's fat ass is a better baseball player than A-Rod? Rodriguez is on pace to break an absurd amount of records by mantle, gehrig, ruth, whoever. Rodriguez is an insane player at the plate and on the field (either SS or 3b, which shows versatility). So it's not that Alex Rodriguez reached down and plucked the league from the fiery depths, and now the MLB is some sort of Sinner in the hands of an Angry God, thats not what i'm saying at all. You wanted to hear how he "saved" baseball? when people like Canseco and McGwire and Palmeiro and everyone else ended up testing positive, at least the league still had their best player who had an immaculate testing record. He was the best, and he was doing it without the drugs. He was going to break all of the records without the help of steroids like Bonds and McGwire. He represented hope throughout all of the congressional hearings, he was an example that there was still a shred of dignity left in baseball. and to a certain extent he still is: hes handling everything very well, but that doesn't change the fact that he used steroids and everyone will always bring that up for the rest of his career and when he gets on the HOF ballot.
Barry Bonds is one of the top 5 players to ever play the game. He "got fat" like 12 years into his career. He was an elite defender, great speed, and possesses one of the greatest eyes at the plate in baseball history - steroids or not. He's a douche but he's an absolutely incredible ballplayer, in an era where a huge portion were juicing, he's hands down the best player of this generation.

[preppyak]

so go ahead, you can declare baseball dead. the owners who are raking in the large sums of money and the players signing huge contracts as a benefit of all that may tend to disagree, but fuck them. the game they play is dead.
Said it better than I would have...if fan attendance and TV ratings aren't the marker by which you judge the vitality of a sport...then I'm not sure what is. We consider football the most popular sport because it consistently draws huge ratings, and a game like the Super Bowl is the most watched program in any given year.

And yes, because of the economy, attendance numbers might be down a little bit from last year...but TV ratings will go up then. I'm not even that big a baseball fan, but I can say I am genuinely interested in all of the story lines coming up this year, simply because baseball has done an excellent job of making sure that the stories that are good get played up.

[bigmike]

you're dumb. do you really believe that Barry fucking Bonds's fat ass is a better baseball player than A-Rod? Rodriguez is on pace to break an absurd amount of records by mantle, gehrig, ruth, whoever. Rodriguez is an insane player at the plate and on the field (either SS or 3b, which shows versatility). So it's not that Alex Rodriguez reached down and plucked the league from the fiery depths, and now the MLB is some sort of Sinner in the hands of an Angry God, thats not what i'm saying at all. You wanted to hear how he "saved" baseball? when people like Canseco and McGwire and Palmeiro and everyone else ended up testing positive, at least the league still had their best player who had an immaculate testing record. He was the best, and he was doing it without the drugs. He was going to break all of the records without the help of steroids like Bonds and McGwire. He represented hope throughout all of the congressional hearings, he was an example that there was still a shred of dignity left in baseball. and to a certain extent he still is: hes handling everything very well, but that doesn't change the fact that he used steroids and everyone will always bring that up for the rest of his career and when he gets on the HOF ballot.

so baseball might maintain their attendance, but i don't really think that counts for much. and keep in mind this came out in between seasons, so wait and see how attendance is this year. I'm not expecting empty stands, but i am expecting weary patrons who suspect every player on the field of juicing. so baseballs dead until the league can prove otherwise.

they need to get to the point where they have an efficient, up-to-date testing system that constantly evolves. couldn't be that hard, could it?
You're a fucking clown.

[Vincewithouthee]

I had a dream that I saw "Breaking News - ALL MLB players outside of the Pirates organization tested positive for steroids" on Sports Center. I then realized it all made so much sense. Then I woke up and cried.

[TheBestBet]

Alex did not kill baseball. Baseball killed baseball. Alex is one of hundreds and hundreds of players who took steroids through out the years and baseball turned a blind eye to it. Alex was just a tiny part of the problem and just because he is one of the biggest names in the sport the last decade, it does not mean he killed baseball.

[FondestMemory]

baseball has not been killed.

you can't have record attendance numbers two years in a row and be considered dead.

what the hell?

[xbrokendownx]

not to mention, im pretty sure every single year since ARod has been a Yankee, they have set a franchise record for attendance every year

[QuikTrig]

if attendance goes down, these "steroids killed baseball" jokers are going to say i told you so. even though chances are the state of the economy is probably way more correlated.

[dustin.stereo]

it didn't surprise me that a-rod used steroids because every superstar from this era pretty much has been busted for it now minus griffey won't because he's a professional player with dignity also the active leader in home runs in mlb but anyways i love all the attention this is recieving right now and the parody to come along with it.. i saw this hilarious t-shirt of the yankees symbol with a syringe in place of the bat and A-ROID on the back check it out

http://www.kuruptionjunction.bigcartel.com /product/a-roid

[superichie]

IMO, the fact that Alex Rodriguez, the MLB's golden boy, used anabolic steroids ruins everything that the sport stands for, and is truly representative of this era in baseball. i want to see every current player tested before i regain my faith in the sport.

agreed. alex rodriguez is a scumbag and a fraud.

[rcrook]

awesome insight, if that is your view of a-rod then probably 80 percent of the people in baseball are scumbags and frauds.

[Kaleidoscope]

baseball isn't dead as far as i'm concerned.

small market teams going to the world series pretty much every year now. (or every other year)
and record attendance (which has been stated)

if anything, the current steroid news story is making more people interested because now everyone wants to see how a-rod will do this year.

[brandnizzle2419]

oh, my head.

ok, i give up, i retract everything i've said in this thread. Baseball is thriving. Attendance records show that people don't care about steroids, although throughout baseball's history, attendance has always been better in tougher economic times, which we are currently in. Alex Rodriguez's use of steroids doesn't have any effect on his career, nor the career of anyone else. Baseball is really no better or worse than it was before this story came up. The implications of steroid use in the MLB, more specifically amongst it's most prolific performers, are mild at best, which begs the question: why is congress still investigating this shit? Noone cares anyways, right?

Rest easy, Bud Selig, your legacy is intact.

[Jake Denning]

Soulja Boy killed hip hop. Your point?

[superichie]

awesome insight, if that is your view of a-rod then probably 80 percent of the people in baseball are scumbags and frauds.


You're right. They probably are. But, I say A-Rod specifically because he used steroids to make people think he was a way better than he actually was and became the highest paid athlete in history as a result (fraud) and last year he left his wife and kids so he could go bang Madonna for a couple months (scumbag).

[rcrook]

You're right. They probably are. But, I say A-Rod specifically because he used steroids to make people think he was a way better than he actually was and became the highest paid athlete in history as a result (fraud) and last year he left his wife and kids so he could go bang Madonna for a couple months (scumbag).

way better is such a hyperbole

[superichie]

way better is such a hyperbole

I was going to use the phrase "more proficient", but I knew you'd be reading my response and didn't want to use words you might not be able to understand.

[bigmike]

You're right. They probably are. But, I say A-Rod specifically because he used steroids to make people think he was a way better than he actually was and became the highest paid athlete in history as a result (fraud) and last year he left his wife and kids so he could go bang Madonna for a couple months (scumbag).
I don't know how into baseball numbers you are, so I won't even bother with anything more than this:

Alex Rodriguez 1996-200: .301/.374/.561, 189 HR which is 27 per year. This is from age 20-24. Before the peak power years for a major league hitter.

From 2001-2003: .305/.396/.615, 156 HR which is 52 per year. This is age 25-27, the very beginning of the peak power years for a major league hitter. Add in playing in one of the 3 most hitter friendly ballparks of our era, and a power spike is to be expected.

From 2004-2008: .303/.401/.573, 208 homers, 42 per year. This is from age 28-32. This is directly in the middle to back end of the prime power years for a major league hitter.

Steroids did not make him "better than he actually was." These are just traditional numbers, most sabermetric numbers have him as being pretty much in line with his career norms.

[OldJersey]

I can't believe he had his cousin who gave him the steroids back in 01'-03' in his car with him yesterday after the Yankee game....he just doesn't get it.

[CubbyNick42]

It's his cousin. Is he supposed to disown him for doing what he was asked?

[live.]

The Yanks banned the cousin from team facilities after the ride.

[bigmike]

Clearly Alex Rodriguez should've hired a hit on his cousin to put this entire thing to rest. Murder is much less of a crime then Steroids. I mean, he has killed baseball as it is.

[kshtoinks12]

Are Jeremy and Jason Giambi not allowed to talk to each other after injecting each other?

[phil19]

jeter is better than a-rod

[bigmike]

jeter is better than a-rod
No. He is not.

[live.]

No. He is not.

I'm surprised that you even addressed that malarky.

[donwagenblast]

A Rod killed baseball for me. Even when the Mitchell Report came out, I said to my friends "If A-Rod does steroids, I'm giving up on baseball." He wasn't and I continued to enjoy the sport, but with a sense of hesitation. When I found out he took steroids, I was done. Nothing pure will ever come out of the game of baseball now in my mind. I don't even see how I can teach my future children how to play a game where everybody cheats. This is the greatest and most deflating tragedy in sports.

[Scott Weber]

A Rod killed baseball for me. Even when the Mitchell Report came out, I said to my friends "If A-Rod does steroids, I'm giving up on baseball." He wasn't and I continued to enjoy the sport, but with a sense of hesitation. When I found out he took steroids, I was done. Nothing pure will ever come out of the game of baseball now in my mind. I don't even see how I can teach my future children how to play a game where everybody cheats. This is the greatest and most deflating tragedy in sports.
Sucks for you. Baseball is baseball. If you're "quitting" because a big name player cheated in an era where it seems like everyone did, then you were never that big of a fan to begin with.

[xbrokendownx]

again, Bonds/Sosa/McGwire didnt kill baseball, but ARod did?

[donwagenblast]

Sucks for you. Baseball is baseball. If you're "quitting" because a big name player cheated in an era where it seems like everyone did, then you were never that big of a fan to begin with.


I never really was a big fan of baseball to begin with, that's the truth.

[Scott Weber]

I never really was a big fan of baseball to begin with, that's the truth.
Then you won't be missed.

[Smithers]

Clearly Alex Rodriguez should've hired a hit on his cousin to put this entire thing to rest. Murder is much less of a crime then Steroids. I mean, he has killed baseball as it is.
johnny damon says otherwise.

[FondestMemory]

A Rod killed baseball for me. Even when the Mitchell Report came out, I said to my friends "If A-Rod does steroids, I'm giving up on baseball." He wasn't and I continued to enjoy the sport, but with a sense of hesitation. When I found out he took steroids, I was done. Nothing pure will ever come out of the game of baseball now in my mind. I don't even see how I can teach my future children how to play a game where everybody cheats. This is the greatest and most deflating tragedy in sports.

wow. not even close.

i'm still confused how doing something that wasn't against the rules is considered cheating by so many? i mean, sure, steroids aren't good. but when there's no rule against them, why the fuck not?

[preppyak]

i'm still confused how doing something that wasn't against the rules is considered cheating by so many? i mean, sure, steroids aren't good. but when there's no rule against them, why the fuck not?
This was never clarified from the asianxcore/Barry Bonds cluster fuck threads....but aren't steroids illegal in the US and on the controlled substances list? Like, barring a prescription from a reputable doctor, its illegal to possess them...so, in that sense, while there isn't a rule in baseball against it, its still "against the law" to do them. Like, baseball doesn't have a rule that says you can't kill someone, but, its not like a baseball player can go around killing dudes and say it isn't against the rules of baseball, its all cool. And I know athletes get away with a lot of illegal acts as a part of their sport, but injecting a steroid isn't a required element to compete

So, in that sense I can understand the "cheater" or "law-breaker" aspect of the steroids story...even if I don't neccessarily agree that what they were doing was "wrong" per se

[FondestMemory]

ok, that's fine, and i've always understood the logic there. but i still fail to see where the term cheater comes into play.

[preppyak]

ok, that's fine, and i've always understood the logic there. but i still fail to see where the term cheater comes into play.
Yeah...I'm 100% with you there...spearing guys was a great idea for people making tackles earlier on in the NFL, but the league decided they didn't like guys getting paralyzed making ineffective tackles, so they corrected the issue...the NBA decided that players that were too inexperienced so they created the 19yr old draft rule (whether its effective is a different story)...baseball definitely knew guys were using steroids, they chose not to address it, so it continued.

Especially as the money has started flying to sports, I completely understand a guy like A-rod using steroids to maximize his performance. Dude signed a 10yr $250 mil deal...if he felt he was having an off day, let alone year, you know he was looking for anything he could to correct it.

[Kaleidoscope]

again, Bonds/Sosa/McGwire didnt kill baseball, but ARod did?

well, they had a lot to do with it becoming popular, but in the same way they did kill it.

It's a double-edged sword.

[bigmike]

well, they had a lot to do with it becoming popular, but in the same way they did kill it.

It's a double-edged sword.
Saving the game of baseball after a work-stoppage drove fans away =/= killing the game. How do you do two polar opposite things at the same time?

[Kaleidoscope]

Saving the game of baseball after a work-stoppage drove fans away =/= killing the game. How do you do two polar opposite things at the same time?

I mean in the sense that its coming back to get them now. The positive effects are seen, but now the game keeps taking hits for it.

[bigmike]

I mean in the sense that its coming back to get them now. The positive effects are seen, but now the game keeps taking hits for it.
They made millions upon millions upon millions of dollars money that set them, their kids, and their kids' kids up financially for as long as need be -- and in the case of Sammy Sosa put a ton of money back into his hometown building proper baseball fields, gloves, bats, balls, leagues. All while MLB set attendance record after attendance record shaking off the Mitchell Report, numerous "stars" getting busted (Oh, hey, A-Rod and the on-field talents of Rafael Palmeiro that weren't ever recognized as being great until he got busted with a positive drug test, also big nod to Pettitte, as well), and all this steroids controversy.

Hmm, worth it. Absolutely worth it.

[Kaleidoscope]

They made millions upon millions upon millions of dollars money that set them, their kids, and their kids' kids up financially for as long as need be -- and in the case of Sammy Sosa put a ton of money back into his hometown building proper baseball fields, gloves, bats, balls, leagues. All while MLB set attendance record after attendance record shaking off the Mitchell Report, numerous "stars" getting busted (Oh, hey, A-Rod and the on-field talents of Rafael Palmeiro that weren't ever recognized as being great until he got busted with a positive drug test, also big nod to Pettitte, as well), and all this steroids controversy.

Hmm, worth it. Absolutely worth it.

I didn't say it wasn't worth it? I'm just saying while the money is good, there is no denying that they're still taking a lot of garbage for what happened. It may not equal all the good that came from it, but it exists.

And a lot of uneducated fans, most of which fill up the ballparks, don't know about the attendance records and revenue, they only hear what the news feeds them. It's an unfortunate truth.

[CubbyNick42]

Yeah, we're all so lucky to be related to MLB front office members so that we can find out the truth about attendance records.

[bigmike]

I didn't say it wasn't worth it? I'm just saying while the money is good, there is no denying that they're still taking a lot of garbage for what happened. It may not equal all the good that came from it, but it exists.

And a lot of uneducated fans, most of which fill up the ballparks, don't know about the attendance records and revenue, they only hear what the news feeds them. It's an unfortunate truth.
I've heard countless times on ESPN -- the epitome of a news channel that gives the bear minimum amount of actual important news -- talk about attendance records in baseball. The dumbest, most naive baseball fan knows that Cal Ripken's consecutive game played streak and the subsequent HR streak in 98 saved baseball and attendance took off from the early 00's until, presumably, this year where reports on ESPN have attendance probably declinging 17-20%.

[Kaleidoscope]

I've heard countless times on ESPN -- the epitome of a news channel that gives the bear minimum amount of actual important news -- talk about attendance records in baseball. The dumbest, most naive baseball fan knows that Cal Ripken's consecutive game played streak and the subsequent HR streak in 98 saved baseball and attendance took off from the early 00's until, presumably, this year where reports on ESPN have attendance probably declinging 17-20%.

If most fans know that I'll be impressed. Casual fans have no idea.

[preppyak]

If most fans know that I'll be impressed. Casual fans have no idea.
I watch maybe a total of 5-10 baseball games until the playoffs, so I'd say I am a "casual fan" in terms of baseball, and that seems like common knowledge to me. I mean, ESPN talks about that all the time...Around the Horn and PTI especially drum up that point that the American people don't care as they are showing up in record numbers. And that's from someone who sort of tunes out when baseball news comes on

[himynameisalan]

how did he kill itl wth the game was alredy deminished from bonds and clements, at least he admitted it, hes all baseball has and it years ago let the guy go and let him hit 40+ homers this season

[xbrokendownx]

how did he kill itl wth the game was alredy deminished from bonds and clements, at least he admitted it, hes all baseball has and it years ago let the guy go and let him hit 40+ homers this season






http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/maxwell_smart__confused.gif

[himynameisalan]

yes i type different to other people, so if you dont understand anything ignore it son

[himynameisalan]

:-)

[Everiggs]

There are way too many people to blame for the rampant use of steroids...It's not fair to place all of the hatred on one individual.

If you were to blame someone, why not look at all the assholes who clearly did juice-up, but still won't admit it (ie Roger Clemens).

[himynameisalan]

There are way too many people to blame for the rampant use of steroids...It's not fair to place all of the hatred on one individual.

If you were to blame someone, why not look at all the assholes who clearly did juice-up, but still won't admit it (ie Roger Clemens).
in perfect words :-)