Red - "Innocence and Instinct"

[batmannj]

I am a big fan of the Alt Rock band Red, and their new album drops tomorrow. I have streamed it on Myspace and it sounds great. Any other Red fans on here?

[trappedintime]

I liked their last album. Pretty good.

[batmannj]

I liked their last album. Pretty good.

yeah end of silence is great, I love it.

[micahistheballs]

Terrible fucking band.

[karlwithak]

Terrible fucking band.

Yeti beckter with a side of chaos on a summer night.

[karlwithak]

Innocence and Instinct is probably one of the best albums of 2009, although its a bit to soon to tell. Over all, this album is close to End of Silence, but its great. Honestly I can't say which one I like better. I like Innocence because it deals with struggle and the dark struggle that we as Christians go through between God and sin. I love how they try a few new things like the song Take It All Away. Shadows is probably my favorite track on the album. Over all, Innocence and Instinct is an amazing album and will go down as one of my favorites along with End of Silence.

[Colorblind!]

LOL.
This is so embarassing.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Terrible fucking band.
Agreed, I'm ashamed to say I have one of their posters that is signed by them that I got in 6th grade.

[xJesusFreakx]

I saw Red like 3 times over the period of 2 years because they kept sneaking into concerts/events that I was attending. :/

They aren't a bad band by any means. They just aren't, uh, good? They don't hurt my ears, but they don't exactly draw me in either.

[Troggy]

Took 0:03 into their first myspace song to find out everything I ever needed to know about them. Just another ripoff of a ripoff, it's ridiculous. I thought seeing Kutless on the bill at every Christian "music" festival was nauseating enough. If it weren't for David Crowder Band I'd think nobody at any of those is even trying.

[karlwithak]

Took 0:03 into their first myspace song to find out everything I ever needed to know about them. Just another ripoff of a ripoff, it's ridiculous. I thought seeing Kutless on the bill at every Christian "music" festival was nauseating enough. If it weren't for David Crowder Band I'd think nobody at any of those is even trying.

I am pretty sure Red hasn't ripped off anyone. There music is great and so is their message. As for saying the Christian genre is just a rip off, that's stupid. Its first off all not one genre. There is everything from rap to metal that is Christian. Second of all, I haven't heard a secular band that has even a fraction of the passion and purpose that the worst sounding Christian band has. I wasn't always a Christian and used to listen to all kinds of music, and I can't find one band that I used to listen to that has the talent, passion, and drive that the bands do that I listen to now. The majority of Christian bands are doing what they do for God, not themselves. Their music changes lives and helps Jesus save souls, something non-Christian bands can do. And Kutless isn't on every Christian tour, fyi.

[xJesusFreakx]

Took 0:03 into their first myspace song to find out everything I ever needed to know about them. Just another ripoff of a ripoff, it's ridiculous. I thought seeing Kutless on the bill at every Christian "music" festival was nauseating enough. If it weren't for David Crowder Band I'd think nobody at any of those is even trying.

DC*B is amazing. When I saw him live, he played a song with a Guitar Hero control programed to play three chords, and make the sound of getting a coin in Super Mario Bros. David Crowder is my hero, lol.

[Troggy]

DC*B is amazing. When I saw him live, he played a song with a Guitar Hero control programed to play three chords, and make the sound of getting a coin in Super Mario Bros. David Crowder is my hero, lol.

dang it, I just missed them, they were in VA at the end of January. I want to see them again so bad. Last time was at one of those festivals and I just wasn't close enough to the stage like you'd be if it were a club show.

But yeah, amazing band. Red should take some lessons on writing lyrics that let people know what you are giving glory to God instead of being as generic and vague as possible.

[karlwithak]

dang it, I just missed them, they were in VA at the end of January. I want to see them again so bad. Last time was at one of those festivals and I just wasn't close enough to the stage like you'd be if it were a club show.

But yeah, amazing band. Red should take some lessons on writing lyrics that let people know what you are giving glory to God instead of being as generic and vague as possible.

O, sry. I thought u were shredding Christian music. As for Red, well they could be more direct about Christ, but that isn't going to get people who aren't Christian to listen to them. I am an intern at a Christian radio station and got to meet Red and they are very Christian and talk about Jesus a lot in person. They are very fan orientated. They sit at their table at their shows and talk to all the people that approach them. Their music diffidently applies to Christians and is about Jesus, but its open enough that people can come to them that aren't Christians and end up finding Jesus. Flyleaf is similar in that respect as well. I mean when u look at what some of their songs are about, how could they be about anything else but Jesus? Its a really great way to bring the gospel to the masses.

[xJesusFreakx]

dang it, I just missed them, they were in VA at the end of January. I want to see them again so bad. Last time was at one of those festivals and I just wasn't close enough to the stage like you'd be if it were a club show.

But yeah, amazing band. Red should take some lessons on writing lyrics that let people know what you are giving glory to God instead of being as generic and vague as possible.

I saw DC*B at the Community College of Beaver County. Great show. I skipped my night class at Community College of Beaver County to go, but at least I was still on the campus. That was like a year ago, though. I so need to see them again.

But, d00d, I love lyrics that can sorta kinda maybe be romantic and kinda sorta maybe be religious at times, hypothetically speaking.

[karlwithak]

I saw DC*B at the Community College of Beaver County. Great show. I skipped my night class at Community College of Beaver County to go, but at least I was still on the campus. That was like a year ago, though. I so need to see them again.

But, d00d, I love lyrics that can sorta kinda maybe be romantic and kinda sorta maybe be religious at times, hypothetically speaking.

I've been like completey missing the fact that DC*B has been brought up here, lol. I saw them at Alive Fest. O man, they were so good. I agree that it is so awesome when he rocks out the Guitar Hero controller. I would love to see them live again. Chris Tomlin is amazing live too btw.

I understand what u r saying about the mix of love and religion. A lot of times, Christian songs are sort of like love songs to Jesus or express the love Jesus has for us. Its not a odd concept if u look at what the Scripture says. God and Jesus are love and really love us, so it makes sense that is reflected in Christian music.

[xJesusFreakx]

I've been like completey missing the fact that DC*B has been brought up here, lol. I saw them at Alive Fest. O man, they were so good. I agree that it is so awesome when he rocks out the Guitar Hero controller. I would love to see them live again. Chris Tomlin is amazing live too btw.

While talking about great live worship bands, The Glorious Unseen was pretty sweet when I saw them at Purple Door. Some of my friends skipped them to see Gwen Stacy... Such a bad choice.

[Troggy]

I am pretty sure Red hasn't ripped off anyone.

Have you heard?

Chevelle
Pillar
Kutless
Skillet
12 Stones

Those are just a few Christian bands that Red sound nearly identical to, and all put out records before Red's 2006 debut. There are slews of secular bands playing the exact same style of music as well. I'm not saying that makes Red automatically the worst of the lot, but I am pretty tired of hearing that style played over and over again.

There music is great and so is their message. As for saying the Christian genre is just a rip off, that's stupid. Its first off all not one genre. There is everything from rap to metal that is Christian. Second of all, I haven't heard a secular band that has even a fraction of the passion and purpose that the worst sounding Christian band has. I wasn't always a Christian and used to listen to all kinds of music, and I can't find one band that I used to listen to that has the talent, passion, and drive that the bands do that I listen to now. The majority of Christian bands are doing what they do for God, not themselves. Their music changes lives and helps Jesus save souls, something non-Christian bands can do. And Kutless isn't on every Christian tour, fyi.

I'm not going to address this part since you make me sound pretty ignorant and stupid, but apologized in your next post. It's all good.

As for Red, well they could be more direct about Christ, but that isn't going to get people who aren't Christian to listen to them.

A) Yes, using "Jesus" or "God" in their songs might be a little more direct
B) People who aren't Christian don't listen to them now, even with their vague lyrics. It takes a serious breakthrough for a Christian band to be well received by the secular crowd. Relient K, for example, is for the most part unashamed lyrically in their relationship with the Lord, and yet through good work ethic, clever songwriting, and a likeable personality, they have garnered mainstream support. Now, people may be digging in their back catalogue and find songs like "For the moments I feel Faint" and maybe think about it a little because of the success of "be my escape". Red is just in the long line of bands that may or may not end up garnering secular support. Anberlin has received a lot, but that is because they are even more vague and middle of the road than Red about their lyrics. And I am not saying this is all a bad thing, it is good to have some positive bands that everyone can enjoy. People who meet the band themselves may get into conversations with them, who am I to know how much good their music will or will not do.

Flyleaf is similar in that respect as well. I mean when u look at what some of their songs are about, how could they be about anything else but Jesus? Its a really great way to bring the gospel to the masses.

Saying, "how could they be about anything else?" is different than saying "these songs are about Jesus". I'll be honest, this website is probably a decent representation of what people who are not Christians feel about bands like Flyleaf. I have to agree with them here, the music is terrible.

The thing is, you would think broadening your lyrical content or making more generalizations would include people, but really it just enforces the Christian bubble because the music itself is not what people outside of the bubble are looking to hear. Even though these bands have good intentions, they are not making music that interests anyone on a "this is music that pleases my ears" kind of level. Bands like Kutless and Red at first seem edgy and relevant, but if you take a look at a lot of the people that like them, you would quickly change your tune (I have plenty of experience with this, if you are wondering). The point is, to someone outside the fold, this is just another notch in the bedpost of a lame genre that we don't want to hear anymore from. That's just the way it is.

I don't doubt that many bands like this are doing it for God. I am glad that there is some light so to speak in the overall music arena. I also know that some people who aren't really too concerned about the way their music sounds really can relate and enjoy this kind of stuff. It's immediate and easy, it's innoffensive, it's accessible. Sometimes that's what the people want to hear, but it's not really what I am looking for, and a lot of people on this site are very particular about their music as well.

But, d00d, I love lyrics that can sorta kinda maybe be romantic and kinda sorta maybe be religious at times, hypothetically speaking.

haha, not sure I agree with you there. sometimes multiple meanings are good, but if you are trying to make a poignant observation about God I would rather not have to first figure out that you are not talking about some girl.

[micahistheballs]

I am pretty sure Red hasn't ripped off anyone. There music is great and so is their message. As for saying the Christian genre is just a rip off, that's stupid. Its first off all not one genre. There is everything from rap to metal that is Christian. Second of all, I haven't heard a secular band that has even a fraction of the passion and purpose that the worst sounding Christian band has. I wasn't always a Christian and used to listen to all kinds of music, and I can't find one band that I used to listen to that has the talent, passion, and drive that the bands do that I listen to now. The majority of Christian bands are doing what they do for God, not themselves. Their music changes lives and helps Jesus save souls, something non-Christian bands can do. And Kutless isn't on every Christian tour, fyi.
This post is just absurd.

[Colorblind!]

I don't even know what to say, and I agree with troggy, so here's my opinion:

Jesus wasn't safe. He was an example of how to disarm religion and to do things differently, he lived dangerously enough that he was crucified for it. I don't see why all the bands making music in his name want to play it safe.
I'm sick of bands that sound the same, writing the same boring music, with the same hollow lyrics. While I'm sure that their intentions are great and that these bands satisfy some people thirsts for worship and connection, I need something more.
Bubblegum christian music produced for the christian audience isn't going to change any outsiders opinion.

[Troggy]

I don't even know what to say, and I agree with troggy, so here's my opinion:

Jesus wasn't safe. He was an example of how to disarm religion and to do things differently, he lived dangerously enough that he was crucified for it. I don't see why all the bands making music in his name want to play it safe.
I'm sick of bands that sound the same, writing the same boring music, with the same hollow lyrics. While I'm sure that their intentions are great and that these bands satisfy some people thirsts for worship and connection, I need something more.
Bubblegum christian music produced for the christian audience isn't going to change any outsiders opinion.

The thing is, Christian music has become an industry just like any other type of music. It is growing at a rate comparable to other genres, and we are seeing similar trends. There are good Christian artists out there, but like any other genre, you have to search through the haystack to find the needle.

It's interesting that you would bring up the revolutionary nature of Jesus. That is a nice thought. It works in theory, but I suppose in practice, we can't ask every well meaning Christian musician to be innovative. Think about how few secular bands are "innovative", maybe 1/100 (or 1/1000). I obviously agree that there are a lot of bands that are blending in and are simply becoming part of Christian culture, rather than a tool of outreach.

The thing is, the two guys in here that are really supporting Red are right in the middle of that bubble. Although I share their beliefs, I, for whatever reason, have not personally experienced the same culture as them. Like I said in my previous post, bands like Red are giving some people what they want to hear. Just like the mainstream audience eats up Daughtry. Some people love him, some people love the Christian equivalent of him.

It's hard to personally fault a lot of them because they have practiced music and become good at it and are playing with a positive message that many people can enjoy. However, I do doubt the sincerity of all the acts out there these days, it's hard to separate them because so many of them are on the fence.

It's really an issue that I feel strongly about, and there is a lot to say.

[xJesusFreakx]

Have you heard?

Chevelle
Pillar
Kutless
Skillet
12 Stones

Those are just a few Christian bands that Red sound nearly identical to, and all put out records before Red's 2006 debut. There are slews of secular bands playing the exact same style of music as well. I'm not saying that makes Red automatically the worst of the lot, but I am pretty tired of hearing that style played over and over again.



I'm not going to address this part since you make me sound pretty ignorant and stupid, but apologized in your next post. It's all good.



A) Yes, using "Jesus" or "God" in their songs might be a little more direct
B) People who aren't Christian don't listen to them now, even with their vague lyrics. It takes a serious breakthrough for a Christian band to be well received by the secular crowd. Relient K, for example, is for the most part unashamed lyrically in their relationship with the Lord, and yet through good work ethic, clever songwriting, and a likeable personality, they have garnered mainstream support. Now, people may be digging in their back catalogue and find songs like "For the moments I feel Faint" and maybe think about it a little because of the success of "be my escape". Red is just in the long line of bands that may or may not end up garnering secular support. Anberlin has received a lot, but that is because they are even more vague and middle of the road than Red about their lyrics. And I am not saying this is all a bad thing, it is good to have some positive bands that everyone can enjoy. People who meet the band themselves may get into conversations with them, who am I to know how much good their music will or will not do.



Saying, "how could they be about anything else?" is different than saying "these songs are about Jesus". I'll be honest, this website is probably a decent representation of what people who are not Christians feel about bands like Flyleaf. I have to agree with them here, the music is terrible.

The thing is, you would think broadening your lyrical content or making more generalizations would include people, but really it just enforces the Christian bubble because the music itself is not what people outside of the bubble are looking to hear. Even though these bands have good intentions, they are not making music that interests anyone on a "this is music that pleases my ears" kind of level. Bands like Kutless and Red at first seem edgy and relevant, but if you take a look at a lot of the people that like them, you would quickly change your tune (I have plenty of experience with this, if you are wondering). The point is, to someone outside the fold, this is just another notch in the bedpost of a lame genre that we don't want to hear anymore from. That's just the way it is.

I don't doubt that many bands like this are doing it for God. I am glad that there is some light so to speak in the overall music arena. I also know that some people who aren't really too concerned about the way their music sounds really can relate and enjoy this kind of stuff. It's immediate and easy, it's innoffensive, it's accessible. Sometimes that's what the people want to hear, but it's not really what I am looking for, and a lot of people on this site are very particular about their music as well.



haha, not sure I agree with you there. sometimes multiple meanings are good, but if you are trying to make a poignant observation about God I would rather not have to first figure out that you are not talking about some girl.

Well, I was only half serious, as I'm sure you gathered by me saying "d00d," lol. I believe that there are plenty of parallels between romantic relationships and a relationship with G-d, and I believe that He made it like that on purpose, to give us a sort of constant parable to help us understand Him. Thus, I think that ambiguity can be a good thing, helping to get this point across. Relient K's "Be My Escape" is one of the best examples of this.

However, as you have said, often this ambiguity is merely an attempt to appeal to a broader spectrum of people. As you have also pointed out, this isn't actually very successful. Vague Christian bands still have a predominantly Christian fan base. On the other hand, mewithoutYou is very blatant about their belief in G-d, and this sincerity, along with the quality of their music, allows them to appeal to the not-so-religious.

I quoted your whole post, not just the part directed towards me, because I agree with almost all of it. The exception would be the criticism of Flyleaf. They have been successful in the mainstream, and I think this leads back to the primary issue: sincerity. You can't watch Lacey Mosley without sensing the sheer emotion that she puts into her art. She's pouring herself out. Bands like Switchfoot, P.O.D., and Underoath are also very sincere in what they do, and that is what people like.

[batmannj]

The thing is, Christian music has become an industry just like any other type of music. It is growing at a rate comparable to other genres, and we are seeing similar trends. There are good Christian artists out there, but like any other genre, you have to search through the haystack to find the needle.

It's interesting that you would bring up the revolutionary nature of Jesus. That is a nice thought. It works in theory, but I suppose in practice, we can't ask every well meaning Christian musician to be innovative. Think about how few secular bands are "innovative", maybe 1/100 (or 1/1000). I obviously agree that there are a lot of bands that are blending in and are simply becoming part of Christian culture, rather than a tool of outreach.

The thing is, the two guys in here that are really supporting Red are right in the middle of that bubble. Although I share their beliefs, I, for whatever reason, have not personally experienced the same culture as them. Like I said in my previous post, bands like Red are giving some people what they want to hear. Just like the mainstream audience eats up Daughtry. Some people love him, some people love the Christian equivalent of him.

It's hard to personally fault a lot of them because they have practiced music and become good at it and are playing with a positive message that many people can enjoy. However, I do doubt the sincerity of all the acts out there these days, it's hard to separate them because so many of them are on the fence.

It's really an issue that I feel strongly about, and there is a lot to say.

I gotta be honest Troggy, I like how you articulate yourself. I really enjoy Red, and I have met them and what not and all that good stuff and they are really cool guys. That being said, I like how you can say what you mean without belittling anyone in here or making them feel stupid for liking music different than you. I am glad there are people like you posting on this site. :beerbros:

[Troggy]

Well, I was only half serious, as I'm sure you gathered by me saying "d00d," lol. I believe that there are plenty of parallels between romantic relationships and a relationship with G-d, and I believe that He made it like that on purpose, to give us a sort of constant parable to help us understand Him. Thus, I think that ambiguity can be a good thing, helping to get this point across. Relient K's "Be My Escape" is one of the best examples of this.

I see where you are coming from. I do agree, using the example of marriage. Marriage in that sense does have a lot of symbolism and what not. Still don't agree about the lyrics thing, but do agree about the parallel.

However, as you have said, often this ambiguity is merely an attempt to appeal to a broader spectrum of people. As you have also pointed out, this isn't actually very successful. Vague Christian bands still have a predominantly Christian fan base. On the other hand, mewithoutYou is very blatant about their belief in G-d, and this sincerity, along with the quality of their music, allows them to appeal to the not-so-religious.

Yeah mwY is a good example, they are a 1/100 kind of band for sure. Not even necessarily that "innovative" persay, but they have a passion for music, and I enjoy how their music sounds. Aaron is very honest in his lyrics, in a way that a lot of people on here can appreciate. That's the kind of thing that allows artists to bridge the divide. He will come out and say directly what other borderline artists tend to generalize. It is a testament to his talents as a lyricist, yes, but also his willingness to put himself out there. You definitely see the point I am trying to make, since you pretty much just made it yourself. :)

I quoted your whole post, not just the part directed towards me, because I agree with almost all of it. The exception would be the criticism of Flyleaf. They have been successful in the mainstream, and I think this leads back to the primary issue: sincerity. You can't watch Lacey Mosley without sensing the sheer emotion that she puts into her art. She's pouring herself out. Bands like Switchfoot, P.O.D., and Underoath are also very sincere in what they do, and that is what people like.

Yeah, I just don't like Flyleaf. I don't doubt that she is sincere. Those bands you listed there, I wouldn't consider any of them good music wise, but I am glad that positive bands like that have garnered widespread support.

I gotta be honest Troggy, I like how you articulate yourself. I really enjoy Red, and I have met them and what not and all that good stuff and they are really cool guys. That being said, I like how you can say what you mean without belittling anyone in here or making them feel stupid for liking music different than you. I am glad there are people like you posting on this site. :beerbros:

Well, I can't say that I am never guilty of belittle people on here, it is the internets, haha. However, there is no point in tearing people down that agree with me about more important things than bands we listen to. I think it's a good thing that Christians talk about how Christian music impacts or does not impact the secular audience. After all, Christianity is the only religion that exists for those not in it.