Conservatives really believe in this stuff...

[commatosa]

Through months and months of stubborness, I'm starting to realize that conservatives really do believe that what they're doing to this country is right. Now opinions are opinions but I would just like to point out how scary this is. Eh, I don't feel like getting into it anymore...

[Goodbye Forever]

Well, thanks for the mindless recycled filler.

[ghostyouare]

Through months and months of stubborness, I'm starting to realize that conservatives really do believe that what they're doing to this country is right. Now opinions are opinions but I would just like to point out how scary this is. Eh, I don't feel like getting into it anymore...
with a closing sentence like that what was the point in this thread?

[Justin_stacy]

Through months and months of stubborn(n)ess, I’m starting to realize that liberals really do believe that by posting idiotic shit like this that they actually think their making a valid, intelligent, point. Now opinions are opinions but I would just like to point out how scary this is. Eh, I don’t feel like getting into it anymore…

[Carlo Marx]

Through months and months of stubbornness, I'm starting to realize that conservatives and liberals really do believe that they actually have a chance in hell of converting supporters of the opposing party to their side.

[PunkRocks]

Through months and months of stubbornness, I'm starting to realize that conservatives and liberals really do believe that they actually have a chance in hell of converting supporters of the opposing party to their side.

Im not sure if it's exactly converting, it's more just proving that the other is wrong/stupid.

[Justin_stacy]

Through months and months of stubbornness, I'm starting to realize that conservatives and liberals really do believe that they actually have a chance in hell of converting supporters of the opposing party to their side.


:thumbsup:

[GhostsDaddy]

I wouldn't say converting. I would say abolishing ignorance.

[Carlo Marx]

I wouldn't say converting. I would say abolishing ignorance. well basically, conservatives see liberals as ignorant, and liberals see conservatives as ignorant, so i honestly doubt anyone is going to make other people see things their way. especially not on a politics forum of a website devoted to music.

also, your username makes me think of this one time in lakewood when i heard some black woman yelling "YOU AINT MY BABY DADDY" at some guy.

[VinnyVegas]

That's why I'm an Independent...

[GhostsDaddy]

well basically, conservatives see liberals as ignorant, and liberals see conservatives as ignorant, so i honestly doubt anyone is going to make other people see things their way. especially not on a politics forum of a website devoted to music.

also, your username makes me think of this one time in lakewood when i heard some black woman yelling "YOU AINT MY BABY DADDY" at some guy.
Quite simply, I see everyone as ignorant, including myself.

As much as I promote the idea that everyone should be able to make their own opinions, I truly believe that nobody has enough knowledge to actually form a fair opinion on anything.

That being said, I am in fact your baby daddy.

[Dan Hollister]

Liberals and conservatives alike are complete idiots. Where we belong is somewhere in the middle. You must keep in mind that, especially in regards to Katrina and whatnot, this is just as much the fault of the liberals as conservatives. Neither group is "correct." We need a good mix of both to function correctly.

[GhostsDaddy]

Especially in regards to Hurricane Katrina? What is that supposed to mean?

[youcomebeforeyo]

No politcal opinion is universally true.

While liberalism/socialism has worked brilliantly in Europe (Scandanavia especially), Asian tiger economies have benefited greatly from conservative economic policies.

I don't think the United States has many true liberals. Or at least not hypocritical ones.

[apoemtothedead]

After months and months of stubbornness, my penis has finally become enlarged again. I really don't feel like getting into it, because I have better things to do now. ;)

[Carlo Marx]

After months and months of stubbornness, my penis has finally become enlarged again. I really don't feel like getting into it, because I have better things to do now. ;)
your penis must be pretty big if you can fit inside it

[Dan Hollister]

Especially in regards to Hurricane Katrina? What is that supposed to mean?

By this, I mean, the liberals have been taking this Katrina disaster as a huge opportunity to, once again, bash Bush, conservatives, etc. Saying Bush sent all the levy money away to Iraq or some such BS.

Back in 1977, when people were worried about Hurticane Betsy, President Johnson signed a bill into law that would've protected New Orleans - then, and now. What happened? The liberals filed a lawsuit, claiming it was too dangerous to the wetlands, and thus ended the protection of New Orleans.

Now, I don't mean to say the conservatives are smarter - they aren't. But every single damn problem we have in this country is easily the fault of both parties.

Liberals blame conservatives for high house prices because they don't much care for price floors and ceilings and believe in capitalism, but then again, the only reason home prices are so high to begin with is because many of the liberals in local districts oppose growth, business, and expansion. I've got some great stories about that one if anyone decides they want to refute it.

Liberals often blame Bush, Arnold, and others for the poor education in California and around the country. But the problem mostly lies in poor teachers, and it's the liberals who fight the most for political-correctness, the worker's unions, and lowering the standards to be more fair, which are all also just as bad, if not worse, than the things the other side is doing.

There's 2 sides to every story. Usually they're both right - because each party blames the other, and both parties are grossly misled. Both parties share responsibility equally for the combined failures in this nation.

I'm not a republican. I'm not a democrat. I'm very middle-of-the-road. And if more people don't start looking at both sides rather than being a zealot for one, we're going to be in a bigger world of shit than we ever imagined.

[GhostsDaddy]

I'm neither repulican nor a democrat, and I'd like to see you back up every claim you just made.

[Dan Hollister]

I'm neither repulican nor a democrat, and I'd like to see you back up every claim you just made.

OK.

Claim 1: New Orleans vs. the Environmentalists.

In 1977, when everyone was afraid of Hurricane Betsy, Johnson signed a bill into law that would put up barriers to block storm surges from the Gulf that would cause Lake Pontchartrain to overflow and flood the city - which is EXACTLY what happened here. The money for this bill was there, it was signed into law, and there was plenty of time for the project to be completed. The democrat-supported environmentalists claimed that the barriers would be bad for the environment. They filed a lawsuit. The defense attorney went on record as saying that he would try to get an exception to the environmental laws for this project, because it was vital to the American people. They still lost the case, the project was torn down. In the late 90's, the Army Corp of Engineers attempted once again to modify the bill in a way it could be signed into law, but they were still met with opposition on the left, and besides that, they had now been squelched for so long that it wouldn't have mattered because it was a 20-year project. By the time it was finished, it would've been 2017, and far too late.

So basically, while Bush may be an idiot for not doing something about it, the argument that it's his fault because "The levy money went into Iraq!" (which is also BS) is a poor argument, because had he signed this bill into law on the first day he ever took office, the project would still only be about 40% done today and would not have held up even a smidgen of the hurricane. However, had the project ben completed in 1998, as had been originally planned, there is a great deal of reserach that shows there would be no major flooding as a result. Thank you, environmentalists.

Claim 2: Democrats are more responsible for high house costs than republicans.

There's a great example from Northern California, which is where I am from. A few miles north of Santa Cruz, in Half Moon Bay, there was a city councilman who retired back in April. He had been with the city for about 30 years. However, when he retired, he didn't just retire - he gave a speech rarely seen by a politician who is retiring. He complained and complained about how he can't even afford a house to retire in at Half Moon Bay. He blamed the conservaties, blamed the private owners and businesses that were raising the house prices. He claimed because of that, he was moving to Alaska, and had no other way to retire to a decent coastal town. He asked, how after 30 years of city service could he be denied the right to live there?

Well, it turns out he's the bringer of his own demise. Because as it turns out, for the majority of the 30 years he was on the city councill, he spent much of them fighting growth, expansion, business. He stopped apartment complexes and office buildings from being built. He fought new housing, hotels, a conference center. He fought it all. By fighting all of these things, the price of housing went up, as more people started to arrive and fewer homes were available.

It's simple math. Republicans prefer growth and expansion. Democrats prefer less growth, so therefore have rent control so people can afford it anyway. But you can't cheat math. Rent control does not work, beacuse keep in mind that landlords don't just sit there and profit, they still have to pay the mortgage for the house they're renting out to people. If the law requires them to rent it at a rate lower than is neccessary to pay the bills, they aren't going to do it.

Similarly, growth fixes all these dilemmas. Had Half Moon Bay welcomed a few more houses and some apartments, the prices of each goes down because there is more choice, more competition, and less incentive. If there's 25 people going after one house, they can raise the price indefinitely, and have to, until only one person can buy it. If there's 25 people and 25 houses, you have to lower prices, because there's no incentive for a person to buy it anymore, since there's plenty available. The more homes, the cheaper they are. The liberals that keep fighting growth and then getting upset about home prices don't seem to see that they are just as responsible, if not moreso, from growth issues.

Claim 3: Liberals vs. education.

While Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy may not be what we're looking for, the problem with our schools is not simply a lack of money. It's poor teachers and administrators. There's plenty of schools out there with little money that perform well, and plenty of schools with a lot of money who perform poorly. But the poor-performing teachers are backed up by the unions and the democrats, and no matter how bad they are, they won't let them go.

The teachers unions oppose merit pay, education pay, and just about everything that might mean better teachers, beacuse they don't want anyone, even bad teachers, to get fired. Their concern is not with the education system, but with their own jobs and paychecks, so they'll fight hell and high water to keep even the dumbest teachers inside the classrooms.

I'm trying to find the specifics on this issue again, as I do not have the name or location of this incident right now, but I know the details, and I will respond again with my source once I get my hands on it again. But the basic idea is that the few teachers who are fired, almost always threaten lawsuits against the district, and many do. Most of these cases are settled in the hundreds of thousands of dollars - that is, for a school distract to fire a $40k a year teacher for being a crappy teacher, they usually have to go through $200,000+ in legal fees to actually get the teacher fired.

The liberals, as usual, do not wish to raise the standards of their supporters, but rather lower the bar to the least common denominator to keep everyone at the same level.

Democrats in Southern California are now claiming that the graduation standards are "too hard." The average Los Angeles high school graduate has an average 8th grade reading and mathematics level. They don't graduate beacuse they have not learned anything. Instead of improving teaching quality, the liberals instead say it's more fair to lower the standards so that everyone can graduate, apparently even if that means they are not smart and cannot work.

Companies like IBM are seriously worried about a lack of people trained in math and science in coming years. Because of this, they actually will give money to employees who quit IBM to become teachers. They are aware of the dismal state of education in this country.

[GhostsDaddy]

I dont' have time to refute this right now, but I will later. I have to leave shortly.