My Thoughts On Chroma

[Rohan Kohli]

This is my plea for you guys to go out and purchase Cartel (http://www.cartelrocks.com)'s Chroma tomorrow. Jason already wrote an incredible review (http://www.absolutepunk.net/reviews.php?action=viewarticle&artid=258) for the album, so there's need for me to write my own. We've also already asked for your help in supporting our promotion so that we can do more of them in the future, so that's one thing, but I just thought I'd share a few of my thoughts with you about the band and their new album, and hope that I can get you guys to either check it out if you haven't already, or make sure that you buy it when it comes out tomorrow. It's not a review. I didn't spend any time writing it or crafting my words/phrases or anything like that. It's not well written at all, and I don't really expect people to agree with me 100%. It's just me rambling on, so please take it for what it is.

I first saw Cartel in August of 2003 when they opened up at a skatepark in Lawrenceville, GA for A Small Victory's EP release show, and literally couldn't believe what I was hearing during their set--who the FUCK were these guys? It was evident the entire crowd was thinking the very same thing as well, because as soon as their set ended, people were literally jumping all over the dude who had the spindle of their 2 song demos (which included very rough versions of "Luckie St." and "Hey, Don't Stop" (then called "This Plastercage"), which I still have, and plan to keep forever). I swear, if I had been a label rep, I would've signed them on the spot after seeing their live show--no questions asked. Anyways, after the set, I went over and talked to Will at their merch table for a little bit, asked if they had any other recordings or anything like that, and he gave me a 2 song Summer's Disregard promo thing, which included a very early version of "The City Never Sleeps" (Summer's Disregard was Cartel's old band). I eventually got around to asking him if he knew about the site absolutepunk.net, which he did not (at the time), and told him I'd try my best to get them some coverage on there, well knowing I was just a regular user/fan of the place and had nothing to do with the site, not to mention I didn't know a single staff member. Funny how things work out, eh?

A few months later in early 2004, I checked their purevolume page and saw that they had their EP up for streaming--once again, I couldn't believe my ears. I went to their CD release show and picked the EP up before the concert (I couldn't stay because of a biology test the next night...lame, I know), so I can proudly say I was the first one to buy their EP. Anyways, over the next year or so, I made sure to catch pretty much every show they played in/around Atlanta...and as of right now, I think I've seen them 22 or 23 times, sometimes at really small clubs with only 10-15 people there (their show at MJQ w/Halifax comes to mind), and sometimes at places like The Tabernacle (Atlanta's "premier" venue with the exception of our outdoor amphitheater and our basketball/hockey arena) with Simple Plan. They are amazing live, whatever the venue--they may not flail around on stage or hang from rafters, but they play their music with passion and have a really, really, really tight sound, and that's all I ask for. Not to mention hearing Will live is even more amazing than hearing him on CD, and they change melodies/guitar lines/add drum beats for some songs sometimes, so it’s like there are little treats waiting for me at each show.

When Jason sent me Chroma, I don't think I had ever been happier in my life. Right then, I felt like I was hearing the best music I had ever heard. And I still do. I don’t think there’s an album I would rather listen to—I’ve tried coming up with possible CDs for a few weeks now, but if you were to throw me on an island with only one CD, Chroma would be the one I choose. After 2 months of listening to Chroma non-stop (according to last.fm, I've listened to Cartel 1700 times, and that doesn't even include how many times I've played their CDs and demos in my car...which is a fuck ton...not to mention I registered for last.fm nearly 8 months after I got The Ransom EP...just imagine how many more times I've actually listened to them), I'm still as giddy over the album as I was the first day I got it. Chroma is about as perfect an album as I've ever heard--pop/rock seriously does not get better than this. I promise.

The songwriting is perfect (see "Say Anything (Else) and "Honestly"), everything sounds classy as hell, and the band's talent is undeniable. Will's vocals are incredible, and the fact that auto tune was pretty much used only for background vocals is stunning. There are fun half time breakdowns in a lot of the songs (my friends and I often like to "air drum" these parts...you should try it some time), the harmonies are perfect/orgasmic (“Save Us”), the production is crystal clear (guitars on the intro of “Runaway”), the drum tones are huge ("Settle Down"), the guitar tones are 100% pure rock, and the bass is really smooth and deep...there's not much I can complain about. The only thing I don't absolutely love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love about the CD is the chorus of "Matter of Time." I know a lot of people are a fan of the song, and I love the verses and the bass work, as well as the bridge, it's just that the chord progression of the chorus is something I don’t go crazy over. That's my only complaint with the CD. One fucking chord progression. The vocal melody is great though, so, it’s not even really a big deal. I'm sure you've all heard "The Minstrel's Prayer" and "A"--there's not much that I need to say about those two songs. There are so many things that I love about this CD that I can’t put into words. So many small things…I don’t even know where to begin…the bass fill at 1:49 of "Say Anything (Else)," when the bass goes up an octave during the breakdown for that same song, the pianos in the background of “Runaway,” the soaring harmonies in the choruses of “Say Anything (Else),” the background music of “A” around the part when its like "When what you want is what you're getting," and countless other things. I know I've mentioned "Say Anything (Else)" a lot, but that's not the only song I love...it just has a shit ton of cool stuff in it. Maybe some day I’ll go second by second and analyze all the harmonies, all the rhythms, all the intervals, all the chord progressions, and why everything works, etc., etc. Maybe this summer? I don’t know how to say this, but when I listen to Chroma, I’m overcome with awe…that a band can write such amazing music…I just can’t ask for anything better, and maybe that’s why I’m so flabbergasted…that a band has written the songs I’ve always wanted to hear. I would cry if I could write music that’s a hundredth as good as Cartel’s. See, I’m not even saying what I mean to say…maybe I’ll come up with exactly what I mean and add it in later.

Anyways, I probably haven't convinced anyone about anything...I just wanted to say how I felt about the album/the band. It's not a very interesting read. It's not informative. There are no cool little catch phrases anyone can stick on a press kit or CD sticker. I just know that this is the album I have always been waiting for. I cannot think of a single album I would rather listen to than Chroma. I know that there are "deeper" albums out there, and I know that pop rock isn't considered a very "elite" genre. I don't care. This is the music that I love, and that's all that matters.

[AmericanTragedy]

I First heard cartel last winter and got the ransom ep and loved it, then the samething happend with chroma. And im amped about seeing them with acceptance and treos in a few weeks since the only time i went to see them with treos and as tall as lions they werent there

[alifetmeaway]

if best buy doesnt have the audition or coheed i will buy cartel.

[last light]

its good, i like it, but it hasnt blown me away like it has a lot of people...minstrels prayer has...and makes that cd incredible..the rest of it though hasnt really impressed me anymore then any other pop-punk band this year, i think academy is... released the best pop punk album, followed by cartel and acceptance

[xearlynovemberx]

eh coheed and the audition first then maybe cartel

[Tyler Revolution]

I'll be honest, I didn't like The Ransom much, I thought it was below decent. But Chroma is fucking amazing. This might just be my favorite album of the year.

[ShoeSh1ne]

Songwriting perfect? It's good, but come on.

[Rohan Kohli]

Songwriting perfect? It's good, but come on.

I'm not talking lyrically...I'm talking about in terms of the chord progressions.

[Dashy]

Well said. Awesome record and yea they are actually even better live. Can't wait to pick it up tomorrow.

[ActorInThisPlay]

its good, i like it, but it hasnt blown me away like it has a lot of people...minstrels prayer has...and makes that cd incredible..the rest of it though hasnt really impressed me anymore then any other pop-punk band this year, i think academy is... released the best pop punk album, followed by cartel and acceptance
TAI made a good album but in my opinion the best pop punk albums to come out this year are Cartel, Jack's Mannequin, The Starting Line, The Higher, and Acceptance in particular order.

[Take Heart]

Sorry.. I just have to say this. I first heard about Cartel on this site when the Ransom EP was released, and I absolutely loved it. Heard several of the songs from "Chroma" on the leak, and was extremely excited. Then, the Take Cover tour came to St. Pete, FL. I was primarily there to see TREOS, and very curious to see Panic! At the Disco, but I was also pumped to finally see Cartel. Unfortunately, Will's voice is NOT more amazing live than on disc, it is off-pitch and whiny. And the back-up singer's voice was seriously godawful. It ruined every song he sang on it was so bad, and the entire crowd literally winced everytime he opened his mouth.

Maybe they were having an off night, I always give bands the benefit of the doubt.. but I just don't believe they could be THAT amazing live if they were horrible when I saw them.

[Ambien]

I'm not talking lyrically...I'm talking about in terms of the chord progressions.

Even so using the word perfect makes you lose some credibility. Nothing's perfect.

Edit: I would agree though. The songwriting is nearly perfect.

[ActorInThisPlay]

I'm not talking lyrically...I'm talking about in terms of the chord progressions.
The CD is amazing and I already bought 2 copies of it, one for my girlfriend. I can't stop listening to it.

[Rohan Kohli]

Even so using the word perfect makes you lose some credibility. Nothing's perfect.

Edit: I would agree though. The songwriting is nearly perfect.

Well, it changes from person to person. BUT, (the chorus of "Matter of Time" aside), these are the chord progressions I wish I could write. They won't shatter anyone's perception of music or anything like that, but in MY opinion, they're perfect. Everyone's got their own feelings about things, so I respect everyone's opinion, and if I lose my 'credibility' over saying something like that, then so be it. I'm just being honest. (eh, I suck).

[splitsecond]

I really like this album, and I will buy it this week. However, it is not the best album this year (which isnt an easy win anyways, so its no hit on Chroma), and the level of whoring this site has done for this album almost borders on pathetic. Its like they hired a new staff member solely for the purpose of whoring Cartel...


Im not complaining, just observing. I swear.

[kidsrdumb]

i don't agree, i think he sounded great at the glasshouse, that guy can sing reallyl well. I thought cartel and treos were the best bands for sure and i already bought the cartel record there too.. artwork is nice..

[duffe]

This album is so good. Almost perfect pop punk (because perfection doesn't exist).

[last light]

TAI made a good album but in my opinion the best pop punk albums to come out this year are Cartel, Jack's Mannequin, The Starting Line, The Higher, and Acceptance in particular order.
ahh good call about jacks and tsl...i cant get into the higher and i count acceptance as last year due to leakage haha...i dont know, i just cant get super into cartel...seeing them play minstrels live has made me listen to that song non-stop...how was vegas?!

[AnonomusVsCA]

yeah this album really grew on me, i love it now

[fluke182]

I've only listened to about half of the leak and found it pretty boring, but I'll listen to the rest and give it a chance so maybe I can get in the first week sales. Its good to help out so we can get some more leaks, LIKE THRICE!
On another note, I'm listening to Dredg - Catch Without Arms for the first time right now. God its good. Well at least the first track has nailed me.

[bounce lemour]

it's so strange these guys are getting huge.

I remember seeing them years ago as Summer's Disregard.

[PaperclipAnemia]

i have played stupid amounts of air guitar with a tino martinez miniature baseball bat in front of my mirror to this band.

this will continue....

[Jason Tate]

i have played stupid amounts of air guitar with a tino martinez miniature baseball bat in front of my mirror to this band.

this will continue....
Post of the day!

[Boring Pop Song]

yea, i love this album. i love the review. their singer still looks like Nick Carter, but oh is he a good singer

[mewithcoldplay]

My album of they year has become a toss up between this and Nightmare Of You.

[standupjackzine]

*Sigh* now WHO is going to clean up the jizz from that jerkoff-fest of a rambling about Cartel?

[Jason Tate]

*Sigh* now WHO is going to clean up the jizz from that jerkoff-fest of a rambling about Cartel?I dunno, how about you? I'll pay you 5 bucks for the day, and it will be the most work for a zine you've done that will be actually seen in 4 years. Go write more negative things about me .. and go away.

[Doubleya2002]

I can't stop listening to The Minstrel's Prayer. I'll be spending way too much money tomorrow.

[payforglory]

I dunno, how about you? I'll pay you 5 bucks for the day, and it will be the most work for a zine you've done that will be actually seen in 4 years. Go write more negative things about me .. and go away.

i'll take 5 bucks to clean it up.

[when 4ever ends]

*Sigh* now WHO is going to clean up the jizz from that jerkoff-fest of a rambling about Cartel?
http://www.nerdworld.com.au/albums/30-03-02-Stupid-Cat/IMG_1976.jpg

[ActorInThisPlay]

ahh good call about jacks and tsl...i cant get into the higher and i count acceptance as last year due to leakage haha...i dont know, i just cant get super into cartel...seeing them play minstrels live has made me listen to that song non-stop...how was vegas?!
oh it was amazing dude. I gambled and lost $80 in $10 Blackjack but won that back playing $1/$2 no limit Hold em. it was awesome, I scored a four of a kind in Vegas at a poker table. There weren't enough people in though for me to make serious money on that though. But anyway I had the time of my life there, definitely a trip to remember.

[RawEmotion]

I really like this album, and I will buy it this week. However, it is not the best album this year (which isnt an easy win anyways, so its no hit on Chroma), and the level of whoring this site has done for this album almost borders on pathetic. Its like they hired a new staff member solely for the purpose of whoring Cartel...


Im not complaining, just observing. I swear.
Cartel is to Rohan as Blink182 is to Tate. Thats all Rohan was trying to say in the writeup. This was not an official review, it was OpEd by a staff member. Prior to Rohan, there was no AP.net staff member from the Southeast. Between Ga and Fla and the Carolina's and Ala, there is a scene in the SE. I think Copeland lives in the ATL area and there is quite a few recording studio's here. It's cool to have Rohan repping.

Cartel's new cd rocks and it's the shit. Every review I have read has been totally positive. Mistrels prayer, honestly, Q, A, all stand out for me. Thats my review.

[wildaman1]

i want all the demos of their old songs. maybe?

[LTJ182]

straight up
these dudes deserve it...through the whole process of Lava trying to get cartel myself, chris the manager and will became bros. Those dudes will be homies for life. they are great people people, great band, and ryan gives a mean freakin haircut and makes more in a day than I do in two weeks..

Play a round of golf with will and see what he is really like...

fuck fuck, shit fuck, oh wait...I made it for a birdie..

for real..I have like three copies of this record already. go get it. Not cause AP.net or someone else told you should, but because its good as fuck

[earlynovemberX]

TAI made a good album but in my opinion the best pop punk albums to come out this year are Cartel, Jack's Mannequin, The Starting Line, The Higher, and Acceptance in particular order.


i can't believe you just classified jack's mannequin as pop punk. im utterly stunned. and yes. i take that as an insult

[standupjackzine]

See, I've been doing this for five years and it's never been a popularity contest. My zine is my hobby, not my business. I don't need it to be huge and I don't need it to be my business. I can cover whatever the hell I want on it and say what I want. But even with that, even if I really like a record, I hold myself back from blowing a wad all over it if I write about it. This is why my Bear Vs. Shark: Terrorhawk album is still in playable condition.

My "business" is freelance journalism. This is where I reach hundreds of thousands of people each day by writing for a very large daily newspaper (the Flint Journal), the tens of thousands of national readers who buy/subscribe to the magazines I write for (Law of Inertia, Death & Taxes, AMP, Big Wheel, etc.), and the thousands of readers who read the campus paper at my school (The Michigan Times). Cumulatively, that's a pretty large readership. So if you want to argue about how much my work is being seen, bring it on. But I'm not, and never have been in this to compete with you.

It's not about popularity. It's about integrity. Last week I saw a show near Detroit and one of the bands rode home with me to stay the night and we were listening to the Cartel advance in my CD player. The band member turned it off for a second and asked me, "What's so great about this album?" I honestly could not answer him. The band I'm talking about has strong ties to The Militia Group, but will go unnamed so I'm not burning bridges for someone else for the sake of me proving a point. But we agreed that it was catchy, sure, it was well-executed, of course, but it was BORING. It offered absolutely nothing that Fall Out Boy hadn't already covered on their last two albums, and certainly does not warrant this type of hype. We were both apathetic that something that is such a cookie-cutter of what's already popular is going to be so huge. We replaced the album with the new Let Go album, which was much more sophisticated, better-written, better-executed... yet it will never be as popular as Cartel. How can this not anger someone who truly loves music? And with AbsolutePunk.net, there lies an incredible power to influence people's musical tastes and the efforts are wasted by constantly pushing and gloating about the new Yellowcard or Cartel albums; albums that are already guaranteed a large audience, while sneaking more talented bands who put a lot more thought into their albums into occasional news posts. I am using the Let Go album as my example because of the shared Militia Group label, also because I saw the album on your AudioScrobbler or Last.fm signature. However, I can about guarantee that there will not be a comparable unanimous circle jerk amongst your staffers when that album gets released in October.











I dunno, how about you? I'll pay you 5 bucks for the day, and it will be the most work for a zine you've done that will be actually seen in 4 years. Go write more negative things about me .. and go away.

[payforglory]

See, I've been doing this for five years and it's never been a popularity contest. My zine is my hobby, not my business. I don't need it to be huge and I don't need it to be my business. I can cover whatever the hell I want on it and say what I want. But even with that, even if I really like a record, I hold myself back from blowing a wad all over it if I write about it. This is why my Bear Vs. Shark: Terrorhawk album is still in playable condition.

My "business" is freelance journalism. This is where I reach hundreds of thousands of people each day by writing for a very large daily newspaper (the Flint Journal), the tens of thousands of national readers who buy/subscribe to the magazines I write for (Law of Inertia, Death & Taxes, AMP, Big Wheel, etc.), and the thousands of readers who read the campus paper at my school (The Michigan Times). Cumulatively, that's a pretty large readership. So if you want to argue about how much my work is being seen, bring it on. But I'm not, and never have been in this to compete with you.

It's not about popularity. It's about integrity. Last week I saw a show near Detroit and one of the bands rode home with me to stay the night and we were listening to the Cartel advance in my CD player. The band member turned it off for a second and asked me, "What's so great about this album?" I honestly could not answer him. The band I'm talking about has strong ties to The Militia Group, but will go unnamed so I'm not burning bridges for someone else for the sake of me proving a point. But we agreed that it was catchy, sure, it was well-executed, of course, but it was BORING. It offered absolutely nothing that Fall Out Boy hadn't already covered on their last two albums, and certainly does not warrant this type of hype. We were both apathetic that something that is such a cookie-cutter of what's already popular is going to be so huge. We replaced the album with the new Let Go album, which was much more sophisticated, better-written, better-executed... yet it will never be as popular as Cartel. How can this not anger someone who truly loves music? And with AbsolutePunk.net, there lies an incredible power to influence people's musical tastes and the efforts are wasted by constantly pushing and gloating about the new Yellowcard or Cartel albums; albums that are already guaranteed a large audience, while sneaking more talented bands who put a lot more thought into their albums into occasional news posts. I am using the Let Go album as my example because of the shared Militia Group label, also because I saw the album on your AudioScrobbler or Last.fm signature. However, I can about guarantee that there will not be a comparable unanimous circle jerk amongst your staffers when that album gets released in October.

next up on www.absolutepunk.tv - a telivised debate: McKay vs. Tate.

[Jason Tate]

See, I've been doing this for five years and it's never been a popularity contest. My zine is my hobby, not my business. I don't need it to be huge and I don't need it to be my business. I can cover whatever the hell I want on it and say what I want. But even with that, even if I really like a record, I hold myself back from blowing a wad all over it if I write about it. This is why my Bear Vs. Shark: Terrorhawk album is still in playable condition.

My "business" is freelance journalism. This is where I reach hundreds of thousands of people each day by writing for a very large daily newspaper (the Flint Journal), the tens of thousands of national readers who buy/subscribe to the magazines I write for (Law of Inertia, Death & Taxes, AMP, Big Wheel, etc.), and the thousands of readers who read the campus paper at my school (The Michigan Times). Cumulatively, that's a pretty large readership. So if you want to argue about how much my work is being seen, bring it on. But I'm not, and never have been in this to compete with you.

It's not about popularity. It's about integrity. Last week I saw a show near Detroit and one of the bands rode home with me to stay the night and we were listening to the Cartel advance in my CD player. The band member turned it off for a second and asked me, "What's so great about this album?" I honestly could not answer him. The band I'm talking about has strong ties to The Militia Group, but will go unnamed so I'm not burning bridges for someone else for the sake of me proving a point. But we agreed that it was catchy, sure, it was well-executed, of course, but it was BORING. It offered absolutely nothing that Fall Out Boy hadn't already covered on their last two albums, and certainly does not warrant this type of hype. We were both apathetic that something that is such a cookie-cutter of what's already popular is going to be so huge. We replaced the album with the new Let Go album, which was much more sophisticated, better-written, better-executed... yet it will never be as popular as Cartel. How can this not anger someone who truly loves music? And with AbsolutePunk.net, there lies an incredible power to influence people's musical tastes and the efforts are wasted by constantly pushing and gloating about the new Yellowcard or Cartel albums; albums that are already guaranteed a large audience, while sneaking more talented bands who put a lot more thought into their albums into occasional news posts. I am using the Let Go album as my example because of the shared Militia Group label, also because I saw the album on your AudioScrobbler or Last.fm signature. However, I can about guarantee that there will not be a comparable unanimous circle jerk amongst your staffers when that album gets released in October.Cartel sold 6k of their last EP ... Let Go's former self (The Stereo) sold WAY more than that; therefore, your analogy is fundementaly flawed from the start. Let Go has a larger chance of selling albums than Cartel does, regardless of what we do or say. Did you read Rohan's review for that CD? It was a great review - plus, that album comes out in a month, so don't for a second pretend you know what I have in store for that CD. Because you don't.

[standupjackzine]

Will this headline or open for Tate vs. Heisel?

[Jason Tate]

Will this headline or open for Tate vs. Heisel?
Scott's at least intelligent and argues over issues that have some sort of relevance to something - you're talking out of your ass about things you obviously haven't thought through, or don't know. You take cheap shots at me - personally (I read your zine and see them all the fucking time) - to make yourself feel better because our "zines" started up about the same time ... and mine expanded exponentially while you still sit in relative obscurity.

[Rohan Kohli]

See, I've been doing this for five years and it's never been a popularity contest. My zine is my hobby, not my business. I don't need it to be huge and I don't need it to be my business. I can cover whatever the hell I want on it and say what I want. But even with that, even if I really like a record, I hold myself back from blowing a wad all over it if I write about it. This is why my Bear Vs. Shark: Terrorhawk album is still in playable condition.

My "business" is freelance journalism. This is where I reach hundreds of thousands of people each day by writing for a very large daily newspaper (the Flint Journal), the tens of thousands of national readers who buy/subscribe to the magazines I write for (Law of Inertia, Death & Taxes, AMP, Big Wheel, etc.), and the thousands of readers who read the campus paper at my school (The Michigan Times). Cumulatively, that's a pretty large readership. So if you want to argue about how much my work is being seen, bring it on. But I'm not, and never have been in this to compete with you.

It's not about popularity. It's about integrity. Last week I saw a show near Detroit and one of the bands rode home with me to stay the night and we were listening to the Cartel advance in my CD player. The band member turned it off for a second and asked me, "What's so great about this album?" I honestly could not answer him. The band I'm talking about has strong ties to The Militia Group, but will go unnamed so I'm not burning bridges for someone else for the sake of me proving a point. But we agreed that it was catchy, sure, it was well-executed, of course, but it was BORING. It offered absolutely nothing that Fall Out Boy hadn't already covered on their last two albums, and certainly does not warrant this type of hype. We were both apathetic that something that is such a cookie-cutter of what's already popular is going to be so huge. We replaced the album with the new Let Go album, which was much more sophisticated, better-written, better-executed... yet it will never be as popular as Cartel. How can this not anger someone who truly loves music? And with AbsolutePunk.net, there lies an incredibly power to influence people's musical tastes and the efforts are wasted by constantly pushing and gloating about the new Yellowcard or Cartel albums; albums that are already guaranteed a large audience, while sneaking more talented bands who put a lot more thought into their albums into occasional news posts. I am using the Let Go album as my example because of the shared Militia Group label, also because I saw the album on your AudioScrobbler or Last.fm signature. However, I can about guarantee that there will not be a comparable unanimous circle jerk amongst your staffers when that album gets released in October.


I'm sorry I'm really passionate about a record. I don't mean to put words in Jason's mouth, but I think AbsolutePunk was created to share that enthusiasm with other people. I don't see how me writing about my love for an album shows in any way a lack of integrity. It's what I believe. I was given nothing to write those words. I don't see any lack of integrity.

You may think Chroma's boring, and that's fine. That's your opinion. It's not boring for me, or for a lot of people. Can we agree to disagree?

And uh, I'm a huge fan of the Let Go CD. I reviewed it, gave it a great review, have posted all the news I could find about it (especially the one where all the big scene guys' (FOB, Less Than Jake, The Format) praise it, so that other people might give say "hmm, maybe I'll check it out now"). However, I don't connect with it quite the same way I do with Chroma. Read my review--you'll see I'm a fan, just not as big a fan.

Lastly, please don't fucking tell me that we are 'wasting' our "influence on people" on a band like Cartel. Cartel sold SIX THOUSAND copies of their last EP. They are not guaranteed a large audience. Moreover, don't tell me that Cartel didn't pour a lot of thought into this album. You know nothing.

[Ambien]

This album is so good. Almost perfect pop punk (because perfection doesn't exist).

HAHA were you being facetious or were you really agreeing with me?

[Drew Beringer]

This cd is 14 bucks at Best Buy, I'll be buying Coheed instead.

[Jason Tate]

This cd is 14 bucks at Best Buy, I'll be buying Coheed instead.
10 bux at shows.

[Drew Beringer]

10 bux at shows.

In all honesty, if Cartel was playing in my city (which they are not) or if I could find a ride to another city for their show, I would buy it. But 14 bucks is too much, I don't have a credit card to buy it online. So, I'm waiting for it to drop in price at Best Buy, or hopefully find it somewhere for cheaper.

[suburbn_thrills]

I'll be picking this up sometime soon hopefully.
This album is def. in my top three of best pop punk albums of the year.

[payforglory]

Cartel sold 6k of their last EP ... Let Go's former self (The Stereo) sold WAY more than that; therefore, your analogy is fundementaly flawed from the start. Let Go has a larger chance of selling albums than Cartel does, regardless of what we do or say. Did you read Rohan's review for that CD? It was a great review - plus, that album comes out in a month, so don't for a second pretend you know what I have in store for that CD. Because you don't.

can you break down for me how many cds The Stereo sold or do you not have access to that? If so seeing the numbers for "Attention" would be awesome as well.

I think it comes down to Music is a personal opinion and its all of us trying to shove our own opinion down each others throats.

i'll be the first to say the bands i hype up arent the best or most original, but they mean something to me, thats why i do it.

[Darren McLeod]

I guess I need to give this album another chance. I enjoyed the Ransom a decent amount, but not to the extent of everyone else, and this album has gotten about half a listen so far.

[standupjackzine]

But that was between what, 3 albums + 1 EP on FBR by The Stereo? I can about guarantee that Cartel's LP sales will crush The Stereo and Let Go (and Animal Chin, for that matter) combined.

I would honestly love to see some major hype go into the Let Go album leading up to its release. But even then, christ, some restraint is due when hyping albums. I'm sure the bands appreciate the support and whatnot, but at least in my experience, they prefer honest dissections of their music, not blatant ass-kissing. I mean, leave that shit to the fanboys on the message boards. I think that thinly veiled boosterism is a thorn in the sides of many objective journalists. You can smell it from a mile away and it makes for an easy target for criticism. I know of a ton of publicists and label employees, many of whom have bands that you do push a TON and they all have strong criticisms to make about the same issues. Now I know you probably don't care because you make a ton of money on this site and get a ton of readers and statistically, you're doing damn well. But is it totally out of the question to maybe try to become a bit more credible/objective while reaping the benefits of being the most-read web publication in the punk scene?


Cartel sold 6k of their last EP ... Let Go's former self (The Stereo) sold WAY more than that; therefore, your analogy is fundementaly flawed from the start. Let Go has a larger chance of selling albums than Cartel does, regardless of what we do or say. Did you read Rohan's review for that CD? It was a great review - plus, that album comes out in a month, so don't for a second pretend you know what I have in store for that CD. Because you don't.

[Jason Tate]

But that was between what, 3 albums + 1 EP on FBR by The Stereo? I can about guarantee that Cartel's LP sales will crush The Stereo and Let Go (and Animal Chin, for that matter) combined.

I would honestly love to see some major hype go into the Let Go album leading up to its release. But even then, christ, some restraint is due when hyping albums. I'm sure the bands appreciate the support and whatnot, but at least in my experience, they prefer honest dissections of their music, not blatant ass-kissing. I mean, leave that shit to the fanboys on the message boards. I think that thinly veiled boosterism is a thorn in the sides of many objective journalists. You can smell it from a mile away and it makes for an easy target for criticism. I know of a ton of publicists and label employees, many of whom have bands that you do push a TON and they all have strong criticisms to make about the same issues. Now I know you probably don't care because you make a ton of money on this site and get a ton of readers and statistically, you're doing damn well. But is it totally out of the question to maybe try to become a bit more credible/objective while reaping the benefits of being the most-read web publication in the punk scene?You keep calling me a journalist. Stop. I am a fan-boy. The website was made as a fan-site, powered by the users to create a community. I could give a shit about what you want me to be instead ...

And the last LP from The Stereo sold more than 6k itself; no band, NONE, has a guarantee about how many albums they will sell. Especially when it's a debut album.

And don't talk about "credibility" when you talk about my penis size on your "zine."

[XpunkXroutineX]

Oct. 25 "Potemkin City Limits". It will blow away every other album released by any other band this year.

[DeadVictoryRose]

See, I've been doing this for five years and it's never been a popularity contest. My zine is my hobby, not my business. I don't need it to be huge and I don't need it to be my business. I can cover whatever the hell I want on it and say what I want. But even with that, even if I really like a record, I hold myself back from blowing a wad all over it if I write about it. This is why my Bear Vs. Shark: Terrorhawk album is still in playable condition.

My "business" is freelance journalism. This is where I reach hundreds of thousands of people each day by writing for a very large daily newspaper (the Flint Journal), the tens of thousands of national readers who buy/subscribe to the magazines I write for (Law of Inertia, Death & Taxes, AMP, Big Wheel, etc.), and the thousands of readers who read the campus paper at my school (The Michigan Times). Cumulatively, that's a pretty large readership. So if you want to argue about how much my work is being seen, bring it on. But I'm not, and never have been in this to compete with you.

It's not about popularity. It's about integrity. Last week I saw a show near Detroit and one of the bands rode home with me to stay the night and we were listening to the Cartel advance in my CD player. The band member turned it off for a second and asked me, "What's so great about this album?" I honestly could not answer him. The band I'm talking about has strong ties to The Militia Group, but will go unnamed so I'm not burning bridges for someone else for the sake of me proving a point. But we agreed that it was catchy, sure, it was well-executed, of course, but it was BORING. It offered absolutely nothing that Fall Out Boy hadn't already covered on their last two albums, and certainly does not warrant this type of hype. We were both apathetic that something that is such a cookie-cutter of what's already popular is going to be so huge. We replaced the album with the new Let Go album, which was much more sophisticated, better-written, better-executed... yet it will never be as popular as Cartel. How can this not anger someone who truly loves music? And with AbsolutePunk.net, there lies an incredible power to influence people's musical tastes and the efforts are wasted by constantly pushing and gloating about the new Yellowcard or Cartel albums; albums that are already guaranteed a large audience, while sneaking more talented bands who put a lot more thought into their albums into occasional news posts. I am using the Let Go album as my example because of the shared Militia Group label, also because I saw the album on your AudioScrobbler or Last.fm signature. However, I can about guarantee that there will not be a comparable unanimous circle jerk amongst your staffers when that album gets released in October.

The funny part about all of this is a few weeks ago Jason was talking about his albums of the year, and he listed a few obvious ones, TSC and such, and also included Let Go, but not Cartel. I don't think anyone on here said the cd was life changing, they just said it was good for what it is, and to some people that is the best record, but attacking Tate over it is kinda stupid, especially with the Let Go comparison.

I think most people see that the site and the band went way back, and this was a cool way to work together. some people call it cross promotion marketing.

[kg00d]

I'll definately be getting this tomorrow. Imo this is up with Houston Calls for best pop punk album this year.

[Rohan Kohli]

But that was between what, 3 albums + 1 EP on FBR by The Stereo? I can about guarantee that Cartel's LP sales will crush The Stereo and Let Go (and Animal Chin, for that matter) combined.

I would honestly love to see some major hype go into the Let Go album leading up to its release. But even then, christ, some restraint is due when hyping albums. I'm sure the bands appreciate the support and whatnot, but at least in my experience, they prefer honest dissections of their music, not blatant ass-kissing. I mean, leave that shit to the fanboys on the message boards. I think that thinly veiled boosterism is a thorn in the sides of many objective journalists. You can smell it from a mile away and it makes for an easy target for criticism. I know of a ton of publicists and label employees, many of whom have bands that you do push a TON and they all have strong criticisms to make about the same issues. Now I know you probably don't care because you make a ton of money on this site and get a ton of readers and statistically, you're doing damn well. But is it totally out of the question to maybe try to become a bit more credible/objective while reaping the benefits of being the most-read web publication in the punk scene?

How do you know that we're not gonna push the Let Go record?

And I'm not kissing Cartel's ass here. I don't even really know the guys...I've met em at their shows, but not once have I ever chilled w/them or anything like that. What I wrote was 100% honest and I mean every word I wrote, and if you don't believe me, then you don't believe me. I know what I like, and I don't care what people say about me going crazy over an album. I don't care if Cartel ever reads what I wrote...all I want to do is share my enthusiasm for Cartel's music and maybe introduce people to a new favorite band. And by favorite, I don't necessarily mean #1 favorite band, just something that people like a lot.

[Drew Beringer]

All this talk gets me excited for Let Go.

[annn]

I love this album. It's quite good [see my review (http://www.forthesound.com/index.php?categoryid=53&p2001_articleid=66) of it where I go on and on...]
But I have to admit, after a couple more listens, it gets old.
That's catchy pop punk for you.

p.s. New Let Go album is good stuff too.

[Tyler Revolution]

Who is Let Go by?

...or are they a band?

[Jason Tate]

Who is Let Go by?

...or are they a band?
Let Go - Self Titled (On the Miltia Group) featuring Jamie (formering of The Stereo)

www.letgorock.com (http://www.letgorock.com)

The funny part about all of this is a few weeks ago Jason was talking about his albums of the year, and he listed a few obvious ones, TSC and such, and also included Let Go, but not Cartel. I don't think anyone on here said the cd was life changing, they just said it was good for what it is, and to some people that is the best record, but attacking Tate over it is kinda stupid, especially with the Let Go comparison.

I think most people see that the site and the band went way back, and this was a cool way to work together. some people call it cross promotion marketing.
Exactly, glad someone brought that up. I mean, OUR mistake got this band signed to the milita group in the first place ... why wouldn't we go all out?

[Tyler Revolution]

Yeah I just checked it out on pv. I can't judge them based on listening to the 3 songs they have up each once, but I can tell I like Cartel better.

[payforglory]

Let Go - Self Titled (On the Miltia Group) featuring Jamie (formering of The Stereo)

www.letgorock.com (http://www.letgorock.com)


Exactly, glad someone brought that up. I mean, OUR mistake got this band signed to the milita group in the first place ... why wouldn't we go all out?

That band was destined to get signed.

FBR had them on radar for a long time. Straight up a close quote from Vinnie's mouth when we met with him in Cleveland was him praising Let Go for all they were and saying that he wanted to sign them real bad, except that Jamie at that time didnt want to tour a lot and that FBR is built on touring full time. This was as he was trying to court the band I was with at the time. He also said how he wanted to release the Anathallo cd, but some kids at FBR werent as into it, he jokingly said that if he had to he would start a new label and release it on vinyl or something he liked it that much.

After I typed all this out I realised you meant that about Cartel, but Im still going to post it so the rest of the world knows im a douche.

[wildaman1]

anybody got any summer's disregard tracks? or any more old cartel demos?

[standupjackzine]

Scott is an intelligent person, I won't argue that. I've had the good fortune of knowing him personally. I usually try to steer clear of the debates you two have, although sometimes curiosity makes for a good read. ;)

I have always been sarcastic, and I've probably made a couple cheap shots here and there. Yes, including the iPod comment (hey, I was mildly intoxicated and it sounded funny at the time. Tell me you've never done the same and I'll call you a liar).

And yes, I realize that we started about the same time and you have a much larger readership. I've never disputed that, nor have I necessarily been bitter about it. You already had a large carry-over audience from when AP was a Blink/MxPx fansite (which probably dates back to before I had internet access) before incorporating the zine-esque format (which was around the time I started my thing). I, on the other hand, started mine with what was primarily a regional focus (which has since expanded). Plus, like I said, that's my hobby, this is your business + hobby. We have different goals.

Bitter, however, can describe how I felt when you became too cool to talk on AIM anymore, too big to cover smaller bands (not talking about Let Go), not to mention one vivid memory I have where you told me you were mad that I, not you, got credit in many national outlets for a certain prank about a certain pop diva that I did on my zine, which, to be fair, you DID help promote. The fact that you got upset that I got a bit of credit for something I DID make by myself, while nobody besides me acknowledged the fact that you helped publicize it (I did offer a note of gratitude that same day for helping spread the word about it, what else were you looking for?) totally gave me the impression that you were in this solely for the accolades, and were trying to take credit for everything, whether you did it or not. We had collaborated on previous pranks (remember Blink-182 signs to JIVE Records?) and I was under the impression that we were collaborating, not competing. I guess above anything else, getting the sense that everything is a competition with you is what made me gradually have a negative view of you.

Am I wrong? I'd certainly like to be, in this case.

The iPod comment, a cheap shot I'd readily admit to. Any other references, sure, I'll take the blame for that too.

But please, prove me wrong about what I said. Even between you and Scott, it always seemed like you were treating your rivalry as a competition.




Scott's at least intelligent and argues over issues that have some sort of relevance to something - you're talking out of your ass about things you obviously haven't thought through, or don't know. You take cheap shots at me - personally (I read your zine and see them all the fucking time) - to make yourself feel better because our "zines" started up about the same time ... and mine expanded exponentially while you still sit in relative obscurity.

[I.O]

I wonder whats going to happen once there on a major

[standupjackzine]

That band was destined to get signed.

FBR had them on radar for a long time. Straight up a close quote from Vinnie's mouth when we met with him in Cleveland was him praising Let Go for all they were and saying that he wanted to sign them real bad, except that Jamie at that time didnt want to tour a lot and that FBR is built on touring full time. This was as he was trying to court the band I was with at the time. He also said how he wanted to release the Anathallo cd, but some kids at FBR werent as into it, he jokingly said that if he had to he would start a new label and release it on vinyl or something he liked it that much.

After I typed all this out I realised you meant that about Cartel, but Im still going to post it so the rest of the world knows im a douche.
I still love you, Joledo.

[splitsecond]

I am a fan-boy.

Classic.

[moises_naruto]

OKAY... IF YOU ARE THINKIN OF BUYIN THE CARTEL ALBUM, BUY BECAUSE YOU LIKE IT, NOT BECAUSE AP TELLS YOU TO...... LOOK AT THE FRONT PAGE... 3 NEW POSTS of CARTEL, PLUST BEING THE FEATURED BAND.... AP WANTS TO LOOK GOOD IN THE EYES OF THE MILITIA GROUP

[Rohan Kohli]

OKAY... IF YOU ARE THINKIN OF BUYIN THE CARTEL ALBUM, BUY BECAUSE YOU LIKE IT, NOT BECAUSE AP TELLS YOU TO...... LOOK AT THE FRONT PAGE... 3 NEW POSTS of CARTEL, PLUST BEING THE FEATURED BAND.... AP WANTS TO LOOK GOOD IN THE EYES OF THE MILITIA GROUP

THE MILITIA GROUP HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER OF MY 2 POSTS.

[RawEmotion]

OKAY... IF YOU ARE THINKIN OF BUYIN THE CARTEL ALBUM, BUY BECAUSE YOU LIKE IT, NOT BECAUSE AP TELLS YOU TO...... LOOK AT THE FRONT PAGE... 3 NEW POSTS of CARTEL, PLUST BEING THE FEATURED BAND.... AP WANTS TO LOOK GOOD IN THE EYES OF THE MILITIA GROUP
Pahhhleeese..... Yeah Jason and Rohan have secret subliminal messages encoded in all their posts that say buy cartel or die. They are aliens with mind control powers.ooohhh. Watch out kids. This , of course, would have nothing to do with the debut tomorrow. Wait till the night before before thrice, if you wanna see some front page fireworks.

Speaking only for myself, i want to look good in Militia's eyes cause they are a great label and i respect them. So kill me.

[Epilogue]

I'm not talking lyrically...I'm talking about in terms of the chord progressions. I consider myself to have a good background in music theory and music composition in general. It really gets to me when people try come across as knowing about the actual musicality of a song or album yet they really have no clue. Maybe you have a clue, more than likely you don't Chord progressions... song writting? That makes no sense. If it's a chord progression, then it's a chord progression, if one of the chords is not correct for that key, then it's not a real chord progression. So by your standards, I could play a chord progression and top it off with some in key vocals, and I'd have "perfect songwritting."

Go get major, or minor in music somewhere, or even read up on it and then come back and talk about musicality of a piece. It's fine if you say the songwritting is amazing in your opinion. But that's not in good journalist taste now is it? Oh wait... that goes on all the time here.

Well to get down to it I think you mean, this album was produced like a pop album, some might say overly produced, some might say it's "perfect songwritting" but in fact, it's just a style of production work that was done on this album that's not pulled off too frequently. In fact the producer managed to accomplish his job here.

Alas, that's the end of my rant, good cd, there's no way a label wouldn't want to have an album "leaked" by ap.net (minus Acceptance who I guess got mad about it) unless they get an offer from a bigger site (i.e. purevolume, myspace, mtv) this is utterly obscene, so buy the album if you liked what you heard, otherwise, don't buy it simply because Tate said so, that's the whole point of an album stream, so you can better decide whether or not you want to buy it.

[Drew Beringer]

Scott is an intelligent person, I won't argue that. I've had the good fortune of knowing him personally. I usually try to steer clear of the debates you two have, although sometimes curiosity makes for a good read. ;)

I have always been sarcastic, and I've probably made a couple cheap shots here and there. Yes, including the iPod comment (hey, I was mildly intoxicated and it sounded funny at the time. Tell me you've never done the same and I'll call you a liar).

And yes, I realize that we started about the same time and you have a much larger readership. I've never disputed that, nor have I necessarily been bitter about it. You already had a large carry-over audience from when AP was a Blink/MxPx fansite (which probably dates back to before I had internet access) before incorporating the zine-esque format (which was around the time I started my thing). I, on the other hand, started mine with what was primarily a regional focus (which has since expanded). Plus, like I said, that's my hobby, this is your business + hobby. We have different goals.

Bitter, however, can describe how I felt when you became too cool to talk on AIM anymore, too big to cover smaller bands (not talking about Let Go), not to mention one vivid memory I have where you told me you were mad that I, not you, got credit in many national outlets for a certain prank about a certain pop diva that I did on my zine, which, to be fair, you DID help promote. The fact that you got upset that I got a bit of credit for something I DID make by myself, while nobody besides me acknowledged the fact that you helped publicize it (I did offer a note of gratitude that same day for helping spread the word about it, what else were you looking for?) totally gave me the impression that you were in this solely for the accolades, and were trying to take credit for everything, whether you did it or not. We had collaborated on previous pranks (remember Blink-182 signs to JIVE Records?) and I was under the impression that we were collaborating, not competing. I guess above anything else, getting the sense that everything is a competition with you is what made me gradually have a negative view of you.

Am I wrong? I'd certainly like to be, in this case.

The iPod comment, a cheap shot I'd readily admit to. Any other references, sure, I'll take the blame for that too.

But please, prove me wrong about what I said. Even between you and Scott, it always seemed like you were treating your rivalry as a competition.

What zine do you run? I want to check it out.

[Rohan Kohli]

I consider myself to have a good background in music theory and music composition in general. It really gets to me when people try come across as knowing about the actual musicality of a song or album yet they really have no clue. Maybe you have a clue, more than likely you don't Chord progressions... song writting? That makes no sense. If it's a chord progression, then it's a chord progression, if one of the chords is not correct for that key, then it's not a real chord progression. So by your standards, I could play a chord progression and top it off with some in key vocals, and I'd have "perfect songwritting."

So you're telling me that you'll take any chord progression as long as all the chords fit in a key, and that as long as you sing in key, you'll have a perfect song? I'd like to hear that...send me some clips of you playing that stuff.

What I mean is that they write good chord progressions...I'm not sure if you understand that you can't just randomly choose chords in a key to play and have it sound good...

And actually, I'm a music minor at Emory, so uh, yeah. Oh, and I've been clasically trained for 13 years.

[Epilogue]

So you're telling me that you'll take any chord progression as long as all the chords fit in a key, and that as long as you sing in key, you'll have a perfect song? I'd like to hear that...send me some clips of you playing that stuff.

What I mean is that they write good chord progressions...I'm not sure if you understand that you can't just randomly choose chords in a key to play and have it sound good...

And actually, I'm a music minor at Emory, so uh, yeah. I'd expect that you'd understand what made a chord progression more than other if you are indeed a minoring in music. You can't make up a chord progression anymore, it's all been written, it's all out there. You don't write chord progression's, you just play them, they're formulated, and indeed you can't just choose chords out of a specific key and play them as though they were a progression,of although they may be, there are specific formulas for what makes a chord progression.


So yes, I understand what a chord progression is, it seems you really don't althought I'm sure just throwing musical jargon, whether you know what it means or not, impresses many of these readers. And yes, if you play a chord progression and top it off with vocals that go along with that progression's key, then the musically speaking, you'd have perfect songwritting, although I doubt you'd ever recieve much acolade for it.

[Rohan Kohli]

I'd expect that you'd understand what made a chord progression more than other if you are indeed a minoring in music. You can't make up a chord progression anymore, it's all been written, it's all out there. You don't write chord progression's, you just play them, they're formulated, and indeed you can't just choose chords out of a specific key and play them as though they were a progression,of although they may be, there are specific formulas for what makes a chord progression.


So yes, I understand what a chord progression is, it seems you really don't althought I'm sure just throwing musical jargon, whether you know what it means or not, impresses many of these readers. And yes, if you play a chord progression and top it off with vocals that go along with that progression's key, then the musically speaking, you'd have perfect songwritting, although I doubt you'd ever recieve much acolade for it.

OK, so because there are a finite amount of chord progressions, Cartel shouldn't be given any credit when they choose a good one? It's not as easy to come up with relatively unique chord progressions as you might think.

And yes, I know about the formulas for progressions and all that.

Don't tell me I don't know about music theory.

And your last statement is exactly what I'm trying to FUCKING say. Cartel deserves accolades for their choice of chord progressions and melodies, OK?

You're getting caught up in semantics and what "perfect songwriting" means and all this bullshit. You're the one talking about how "perfect songwriting" means something else, when all I've said is that they write what I deem to be perfect songs, chord progressions and melodies. As songs, not relating to music theory.

[Epilogue]

OK, so because there are a finite amount of chord progressions, Cartel shouldn't be given any credit when they choose a good one? It's not as easy to come up with relatively unique chord progressions as you might think.

And yes, I know about the formulas for progressions and all that.



Don't tell me I don't know about music theory.



And your last statement is exactly what I'm trying to FUCKING say. Cartel deserves accolades for their choice of chord progressions and melodies, OK?



You're getting caught up in semantics and what "perfect songwriting" means and all this bullshit. You're the one talking about how "perfect songwriting" means something else, when all I've said is that they write what I deem to be perfect songs, chord progressions and melodies. As songs, not relating to music theory. I hear you. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, ok, you know music theory, please then do your part to inform others, if you were not part of the staff, and said songwriting was "perfect" then so be it. But the fact that you are part of the ap.net staff should give you some journalistic liability, and the fact that you say you know music theory makes it worse. Don't add to the dumbing down of journalism, instead inform people, tell them what makes this such perfect song writing, be appalled that Tate's review was nothing more than a rant about how much he loves the album and while I'm sure some of the musical merit of the album came across to him, it doesn't appear he understands why or what it is that makes it what it is. I have nothing against you, just simply trying to bring up the fact that every kid who knows how to strum a chord seems to think they know music, that just because some people receive 10 cds in the mail a day, they think they know music. As it seems, you really do, so show it.



Please... someone... be appalled...

[Rohan Kohli]

I hear you. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, ok, you know music theory, please then do your part to inform others, if you were not part of the staff, and said songwritting was "perfect" then so be it. But the fact that you are part of the ap.net staff should give you some journalistic liability, and the fact that you say you know music theory makes it worse. Don't add to the dumbing down of journalism, instead inform people, tell them what makes this such perfect song writting, be appauled that Tate's review was nothing more than a rant about how much he loves the album and while I'm sure some of the musical merit of the album came across to him, it doesn't appear he understands why or what it is that makes it what it is. I have nothing against you, just simply trying to bring up the fact that every kid who knows how to strum a chord seems to think they know music, that just because some people recieve 10 cds in the mail a day, they think they know music. As it seems, you really do, so show it.

Please... someone... be appauled...

I'm appalled at your spelling. Just kidding..I don't care about that. What do you want me to do? Sit down, transcribe all of Cartel's songs, and chart out why the songs work on a theoretical level? No one wants to read that when I'm expressing my love for a CD. I'm talking about songwriting as a whole--not why a I IV V chord progression tickles my fancy.

I don't know what else I can say, but if you want to talk about it any more, feel free to AIM me at RohanKohliAP. I hope I didn't come across as a dick, but I'm not sure what I can say when you accuse AP of not knowing music, or blame Jason for writing a review that was filled more with passion than why exactly the songs clicked with him.

[Epilogue]

I'm appalled at your spelling. Just kidding..I don't care about that. What do you want me to do? Sit down, transcribe all of Cartel's songs, and chart out why the songs work on a theoretical level? No one wants to read that when I'm expressing my love for a CD. I'm talking about songwriting as a whole--not why a I IV V chord progression tickles my fancy. Hah. Yes my spelling manages to slip at night, I as well am appalled at that. But seriously, I think you understand what I’m trying to say, but I do suppose your audience isn’t one that would be interested in hearing what makes or breaks an album musically speaking. I think musically, Cartel has done nothing new, or genuine here, and please don’t tell me that their choice or chord progressions was what makes this such “perfect songwriting” as they’re recycled from every other hit record that’s ever come out. There’s nothing obscure or rare about their choices. It’s not ok to sit back and just say, my audience doesn’t care or doesn’t even know about musicality, so why write about it. Show them why they should care, and tell them about it, by that mentality why not just give albums a thumb up or thumb down. They don’t care, they just want to know if it’s “good”.



Ok, no more posting for me, I’m done...

[Jason Tate]

Hah. Yes my spelling manages to slip at night, I as well am appalled at that. But seriously, I think you understand what I’m trying to say, but I do suppose your audience isn’t one that would be interested in hearing what makes or breaks an album musically speaking. I think musically, Cartel has done nothing new, or genuine here, and please don’t tell me that their choice or chord progressions was what makes this such “perfect songwriting” as they’re recycled from every other hit record that’s ever come out. There’s nothing obscure or rare about their choices. It’s not ok to sit back and just say, my audience doesn’t care or doesn’t even know about musicality, so why write about it. Show them why they should care, and tell them about it, by that mentality why not just give albums a thumb up or thumb down. They don’t care, they just want to know if it’s “good”.



Ok, no more posting for me, I’m done...
It's good. my review was: listen to the fucking thing. period. now shut up.

[MammothJohn]

This record blew me away.

[Epilogue]

It's good. my review was: listen to the fucking thing. period. now shut up. Seriously kid, don't you have enough people and other sites against you? I've never been anything short of supportive of you, if you think back on it, if you remember. None the less, I don't believe I ever said anything harsh against you, the majority of my comments were towards Rohan, who I have spoken to, and we're on nothing but good terms. The fact of the matter is, you're not a journalist, and while I've accepted that fact, I like to rant about it every now and then. Your site is built around message boards, thus almost every post, whether it be news or whatever, is written as little more than a message board post. That's fine, obviously it's worked for you, but in fact, it's the truth, so don't get bothered by someone calling that out, it seems to be where most of the spurts of anger in this community come from anyway. But as someone with an ounce of journalistic integrity I sometimes find it appalling that reviews of such quality receive such merit.

So Jason... don't tell me to shut up again, and I'll just forget you ever did.

[Jason Tate]

Scott is an intelligent person, I won't argue that. I've had the good fortune of knowing him personally. I usually try to steer clear of the debates you two have, although sometimes curiosity makes for a good read. ;)

I have always been sarcastic, and I've probably made a couple cheap shots here and there. Yes, including the iPod comment (hey, I was mildly intoxicated and it sounded funny at the time. Tell me you've never done the same and I'll call you a liar).

And yes, I realize that we started about the same time and you have a much larger readership. I've never disputed that, nor have I necessarily been bitter about it. You already had a large carry-over audience from when AP was a Blink/MxPx fansite (which probably dates back to before I had internet access) before incorporating the zine-esque format (which was around the time I started my thing). I, on the other hand, started mine with what was primarily a regional focus (which has since expanded). Plus, like I said, that's my hobby, this is your business + hobby. We have different goals.

Bitter, however, can describe how I felt when you became too cool to talk on AIM anymore, too big to cover smaller bands (not talking about Let Go), not to mention one vivid memory I have where you told me you were mad that I, not you, got credit in many national outlets for a certain prank about a certain pop diva that I did on my zine, which, to be fair, you DID help promote. The fact that you got upset that I got a bit of credit for something I DID make by myself, while nobody besides me acknowledged the fact that you helped publicize it (I did offer a note of gratitude that same day for helping spread the word about it, what else were you looking for?) totally gave me the impression that you were in this solely for the accolades, and were trying to take credit for everything, whether you did it or not. We had collaborated on previous pranks (remember Blink-182 signs to JIVE Records?) and I was under the impression that we were collaborating, not competing. I guess above anything else, getting the sense that everything is a competition with you is what made me gradually have a negative view of you.

Am I wrong? I'd certainly like to be, in this case.

The iPod comment, a cheap shot I'd readily admit to. Any other references, sure, I'll take the blame for that too.

But please, prove me wrong about what I said. Even between you and Scott, it always seemed like you were treating your rivalry as a competition.Thanks for the essay on why you dislike me. I still say you're a jealous prick who gets off on tearing down others. Combine that with your stupid comments (we don't promote small bands? are you out of your fucking mind?) - and I'm done responding to this bullshit. I talk to hundreds, literally, HUNDREDS of people on AIM every day .. so I guess you're just not as cool as them.

[DeadVictoryRose]

straight up
these dudes deserve it...through the whole process of Lava trying to get cartel myself, chris the manager and will became bros. Those dudes will be homies for life. they are great people people, great band, and ryan gives a mean freakin haircut and makes more in a day than I do in two weeks..

Play a round of golf with will and see what he is really like...

fuck fuck, shit fuck, oh wait...I made it for a birdie..

for real..I have like three copies of this record already. go get it. Not cause AP.net or someone else told you should, but because its good as fuck

does anyone else get tired of this guy trying to let everyone know how cool he thinks he is? congratulations, you "really" know the band, that must get you all kinds of laid.

[Jason Tate]

Seriously kid, don't you have enough people and other sites against you? I've never been anything short of supportive of you, if you think back on it, if you remember. None the less, I don't believe I ever said anything harsh against you, the majority of my comments were towards Rohan, who I have spoken to, and we're on nothing but good terms. The fact of the matter is, you're not a journalist, and while I've accepted that fact, I like to rant about it every now and then. Your site is built around message boards, thus almost every post, whether it be news or whatever, is written as little more than a message board post. That's fine, obviously it's worked for you, but in fact, it's the truth, so don't get bothered by someone calling that out, it seems to be where most of the spurts of anger in this community come from anyway. But as someone with an ounce of journalistic integrity I sometimes find it appalling that reviews of such quality receive such merit.

So Jason... don't tell me to shut up again, and I'll just forget you ever did.Shut up.

Seriously.

I'm sick of your fucking rants. You keep trying to tell me what I am, what we are, and what we should be. I have a big wake up call for you: WE AREN'T WHAT YOU WANT US TO BE. And we never fucking will be. I'm not sitting with a gun to your head making you visit this website; if you don't like my "message board" ... take a fucking hike. My "message board" is built around users with a positive influence and outlook on this music and this scene, if you have anything else - we don't want, or need it here.

And as much as I hate being called a "journalist" I think I hate the fact that you think you are one, even more.

[PaperclipAnemia]

internet drama is like masterbation.

you're never fully satisfied, and you can never get enough.

[Jason Tate]

internet drama is like masterbation.

you're never fully satisfied, and you can never get enough.
I follow the masterbation rule with internet drama as well, if it hurts, stop.

[PaperclipAnemia]

I follow the masterbation rule with internet drama as well, if it hurts, stop.
masterbate...........masturbate?

its these life fulfilling questions that keep me awake at night. That and Takk.

[ishotthepilot]

well this has been an interesting thread.

when the Cartel 'leak' was up i found the songs semi-boring as well (in an Acceptance, too-much-of-a-good-thing way), maybe i'll take another listen.

[standupjackzine]

Sorry, but what the fuck would I be jealous of?



I have my own readership in the print medium, and I get paid for it. Why on earth would I be jealous that my hobby doesn't have the same success as your business? Businesses are run full-time, hobbies are fun when one has time.

We have entirely different goals in life. I used Stand Up Jack as a means to gain some grassroots journalism skills. It paid off and I'm getting consistent work. I don't know what your goal is, exactly, but as you said it's not for journalism.

As for covering smaller bands... When it comes down to news/editorial content on large bands versus smaller bands, the ratio is very, very disproportionate. It seems as though The Weakend fell off your radar after the year-end lists last year, there wasn't much interest in Chiodos until AFTER they signed to Equal Vision. You put a ton of effort into supporting Andrew McMahon's cause (kudos, he's a good man and deserves all the support he can get, and the orange wristband idea is a good one) but how about when Craig Chiodos was extremely sick last year? Nothing. I sent countless press releases on the band's behalf and it seems like everyone else found it to be important. I saw one news post about the PayPal donations for Keith from Halfwayhome and one news post about the auctions to benefit Keith. Keith STILL needs all the help he can get, and not just emotional support... and he is NOT guaranteed any sort of substantial recovery. So many press releases get ignored. I had to start IM-ing your news posters individually to make sure they'd post certain things that everyone else would find relatively important, yet how many posts do we see about Pete Wentz posting another entry in his journal or some band getting a slightly redesigned website?

John McKay

EDIT: I love how you completely dodged the main point of why I began to dislike you. You wanted credit for something you didn't even do. That's just silly, Jason.


Thanks for the essay on why you dislike me. I still say you're a jealous prick who gets off on tearing down others. Combine that with your stupid comments (we don't promote small bands? are you out of your fucking mind?) - and I'm done responding to this bullshit. I talk to hundreds, literally, HUNDREDS of people on AIM every day .. so I guess you're just not as cool as them.

[standupjackzine]

www.standupjack.net (http://www.standupjack.net)

it's not pretty right now... we had some hackers a while back and also had to change domain names because we lost our previous one during our hacker downtime... and our interview archives are still in the process of being re-added manually, we have a pretty large reviews database though (520+ exclusive reviews, which is a lot for our small staff) -- now that we've got most of everything back up from the hacker situation, interview archives aside, it's just trying to get the staff we had to update as frequently as they did before, even though we're not a news site. We're mainly interviews, reviews, other non-traditional features, photos, and I want to start doing some political essays, as well.






What zine do you run? I want to check it out.

[payforglory]

does anyone else get tired of this guy trying to let everyone know how cool he thinks he is? congratulations, you "really" know the band, that must get you all kinds of laid.

i dont get tired of it at all. i hear a certain other band tell me how awesome he really is. i like that he pumps up the bands that he likes and i know he'd definetly paid his dues. im sure if he was on the market and wanted to play that card, he could get all sorts of laid.

Shut up.

Seriously.

I'm sick of your fucking rants. You keep trying to tell me what I am, what we are, and what we should be. I have a big wake up call for you: WE AREN'T WHAT YOU WANT US TO BE. And we never fucking will be. I'm not sitting with a gun to your head making you visit this website; if you don't like my "message board" ... take a fucking hike. My "message board" is built around users with a positive influence and outlook on this music and this scene, if you have anything else - we don't want, or need it here.

And as much as I hate being called a "journalist" I think I hate the fact that you think you are one, even more.

that reminds me of people that say how much they hate certain bands yet they know all the songs word for word and probably know more about them than most of the people out there.

that or people at my work that tell me they always have bad service - yet they come back.

[LTJ182]

anybody got any summer's disregard tracks? or any more old cartel demos?

oh the things you wish you had.....
some have (like 3 people) and some will never hear (the rest)

hahaha

does anyone else get tired of this guy trying to let everyone know how cool he thinks he is? congratulations, you "really" know the band, that must get you all kinds of laid.


you complete me...wanna do it?

[llwin]

I love Cartel. I love The Ransom EP. I love Chroma. This band's music makes me happy.

Ps. Rohan, i liked reading ur rambling.