Best presidents ranked by historians

[thursday727]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29216774/
Best: Abraham Lincoln
Worst: James Buchanan
George W Bush : 36

[GoWaitInTheCar]

What a waste of a good afternoon. Hey Kids, let's rank the Presidents..

[Floppy]

What a waste of a good afternoon. Hey Kids, let's rank the Presidents..

Lol

[loveisdead]

This is already posted in the general politics forum.

[J.C.]

Bush came in 41st in international affairs and 40th economically. Not sure how he crept up to 36th overall.

[loveisdead]

Bush came in 41st in international affairs and 40th economically. Not sure how he crept up to 36th overall.
I think I read this exact post in another thread...

[J.C.]

:redcard:

[xJesusFreakx]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29216774/
Best: Abraham Lincoln
Worst: James Buchanan
George W Bush : 36

Best should have been George Washington. He > any other president, ever. I mean, he didn't want to get too involved in foreign affairs, he didn't want us to split into political parties, and he didn't even want to be the leader. Those sound like great characteristics for a leader. Abraham Lincoln made a shift in emphasis from states to the federal government, which was, in my humble opinion, a bad idea.

Eh... I guess historians know best? :shrug:

[Machu505]

FDR should've been #1 or #2.

[Praetor]

Ew Andrew Jackson.

[Machu505]

I think I would rank George Bush at 40.

[loveisdead]

Ew Andrew Jackson.
Agreed. Do not approve of his presidency in any way.

[Justin_stacy]

I still find it funny that Lincoln ranks so high given some of the things he did during the war, many of which are what contributed to Bush's deservingly low rank. Top ten certainly, but number 1? From supposed historians this seems a little questionable.

[anthonydarko]

Worst: James Buchanan

I disagree, I think Chester A. Arthur deserves that spot.
EDIT: Scratch that, Ulysses S. Grant and Chester A. Arthur both deserve that spot.

[nothingclever]

I still find it funny that Lincoln ranks so high given some of the things he did during the war, many of which are what contributed to Bush's deservingly low rank. Top ten certainly, but number 1? From supposed historians this seems a little questionable.

Yeah, you are right. Ending slavery...what was he thinking?!?!

I hope you can detect the sarcasm in my post. I do not think slavery was right at all.

[Adeniz19]

yea, all wartime presidents have done some pretty shitty things.

[loveisdead]

I still don't get how Andrew Jackson isn't lower. Easily one of my least favorite presidents.

[Justin_stacy]

Yeah, you are right. Ending slavery...what was he thinking?!?!

I hope you can detect the sarcasm in my post. I do not think slavery was right at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/kaeli/Dunce_Cap.jpg

You.

[saysmydoctor]

I still don't get how Andrew Jackson isn't lower. Easily one of my least favorite presidents.
He is absolutely fascinating.

[loveisdead]

He is absolutely fascinating.

You like him?

[nothingclever]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/kaeli/Dunce_Cap.jpg

You.

Oh, so we should over look his whole body of work and just look at the war. That is a wonderful idea! Are you saying you think ending slavering is not worth a few bonus points?

[nothingclever]

So stating my opinion makes me a dunce? If I said that Clinton should be ranked higher, would that make you want to give birth to my children?

[saysmydoctor]

You like him?
He is my favorite president. I don't agree with a lot of decisions, but I like him. He is very interesting.
Oh, so we should over look his whole body of work and just look at the war. That is a wonderful idea! Are you saying you think ending slavering is not worth a few bonus points?
There are flaws to Lincoln.

[nothingclever]

I agree entirely that there were flaws to Lincoln. Everyone, including President's, has flaws. However, I see now problem with him being ranked number one. The other individual indicated that he should not be ranked so high because of things that happened during the war. I dissagree on the grounds that he did great things that cause him to rise to the #1. Furthermore, everyone loves FDR and he took us to war.

[saysmydoctor]

I agree entirely that there were flaws to Lincoln. Everyone, including President's, has flaws. However, I see now problem with him being ranked number one. The other individual indicated that he should not be ranked so high because of things that happened during the war. I dissagree on the grounds that he did great things that cause him to rise to the #1. Furthermore, everyone loves FDR and he took us to war.
I'm not a historian but I'm pretty sure cause and effect works just like that. You have a cause: Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Then you have effect: We go to war. Try again, trigger.

[nothingclever]

you say it works like that. But then you make it more case sensitive. You have an attack on 9/11 and we go after al qaeda and you scream its wrong. You have a dictator who kills all his own people and we step in and you scream it is wrong.

So does the cause and effect theory only work for liberals?

[saysmydoctor]

you say it works like that. But then you make it more case sensitive. You have an attack on 9/11 and we go after al qaeda and you scream its wrong. You have a dictator who kills all his own people and we step in and you scream it is wrong.

So does the cause and effect theory only work for liberals?
Because your version of cause and effect doesn't ever take into consideration the causes.

For instance, during the Depression when we put tariffs on imports from Japan, that pretty much forced their hand to go into Manchuria. We forced Japanese expansion. Cause. They expanded. Effect. They wanted the US out of their way, in the Phillipines. They attacked Pearl Harbor. Cause....of US intervention into WW2.

9/11 is even easier. US intervention in the Middle East, supporting governments with terrible human rights records (Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia), simply being present in the Middle East. Cause. Effect: pissed off islamic fundamentalists who are trying to get the US out of the Middle East.

Your second example isn't even our problem. The US is not the world's police force.

[nothingclever]

so by your logic we should have let the Jews fend for themselves against the Nazi's? I am beginning to understand you liberals better the more we talk.

[saysmydoctor]

so by your logic we should have let the Jews fend for themselves against the Nazi's? I am beginning to understand you liberals better the more we talk.
Godwin'd, red herring, whatever logical fallacy someone can think of. Oh hasty generalization. There.

[nothingclever]

Well perhaps we should just deny it. Maybe could deny that the Jews really had concentration camps too.

[saysmydoctor]

Well perhaps we should just deny it. Maybe could deny that the Jews really had concentration camps too.
Still not actually arguing anything I actually said and are instead talking about things I never said. You're bad at this.

[nothingclever]

I'm bad? You said we were defending ourselves with FDR. I said we were defending ourselves against Al Qeada. Yet you say they are different. Yet your wrong.

You said we are not the world police in response to my statement that Saddam was killing his own people. By your logic, we should never help anyone. As such, we should have left the Jews in the camps.

[StillTrying1288]

How were we defending ourselves from Al Quada in Iraq? That wasn't in self defense, that was just an idiotic decision by our president at the time.

I had no problem going into Afghanistan, I did have a problem going into Iraq.
U.S. isn't the world's police force. If anything Iraq had less terrorist groups while Hussein was in control. There was no danger from Iraq so what were we protecting ourselves from again in Iraq?

[loveisdead]

I'm bad? You said we were defending ourselves with FDR. I said we were defending ourselves against Al Qeada. Yet you say they are different. Yet your wrong.

You said we are not the world police in response to my statement that Saddam was killing his own people. By your logic, we should never help anyone. As such, we should have left the Jews in the camps.

at least shady is intelligent. Defending ourselves against al queda by going to war with Iraq. Totally fucking sensible. We did stay out of world war 2 while Jews were in concentration camps. We didn't get in it til pearl harbor. Your argument is so fucking stupid it hurts my head. I want the numbers of all your history teachers so I can tell them what a bad job they did teaching you.

[nothingclever]

oh. so when he say the jews we should have left them.

I love how you liberals have no sense of debating just throwing down statements like "Your dumb." That does not win an argument no matter how much you would like it to.

[Justin_stacy]

Oh, so we should over look his whole body of work and just look at the war. That is a wonderful idea! Are you saying you think ending slavering is not worth a few bonus points?

Oh, so we should over look his whole body of work, and just look at slavery? What a wonderful idea!

'Ending' slavery was an historic accomplishment. But his negatives still exist. Suspending the writ of habeas corpus in the north, imprisoning civilians for years without trial or charges, ordering a scorched earth policy in the south, circumventing congress, waging war on civilians....etc. etc.

When ranking an individual all history should be include, not just the more rosey moments. As I said Lincoln should be in the top 10 even the top 5, but number one given some of his actions, particularly in current view of these actions, is quite questionable. The number one spot should be almost above questioning, Linclon isn't.

[nothingclever]

Saysmydoctor: In one of these threads you said I pegged you wrong when I called you a liberal. Your profile lists you as "Very Liberal." Umm... I know you hate to admit you were wrong but I think I was close enough.

[StillTrying1288]

oh. so when he say the jews we should have left them.

I love how you liberals have no sense of debating just throwing down statements like "Your dumb." That does not win an argument no matter how much you would like it to.

And I love how it's always you liberals. We didn't go into WWII to help the Jews out and free them from concentration camps. We went in after being attacked and provoked into action. Helping them came afterwards.

The pretense of going into Iraq was "weapon of mass destruction" and "danger to the american people" it only became freeing people from Hussein after nothing was found. I love how conservatives change the reason of the Iraq war over and over.

[loveisdead]

I'm bad? You said we were defending ourselves with FDR. I said we were defending ourselves against Al Qeada. Yet you say they are different. Yet your wrong.

You said we are not the world police in response to my statement that Saddam was killing his own people. By your logic, we should never help anyone. As such, we should have left the Jews in the camps.

oh. so when he say the jews we should have left them.

I love how you liberals have no sense of debating just throwing down statements like "Your dumb." That does not win an argument no matter how much you would like it to.

I think a few people have given you facts and reasons as to why you're dumb.

[nothingclever]

I think a few people have given you facts and reasons as to why you're dumb.

Just because you liberals change the rules to make your case a "Special Case" doesnt mean I am dumb or wrong.

[loveisdead]

can we stop generalizing with you liberals and you conservatives. Its pathetic

[saysmydoctor]

I'm bad? You said we were defending ourselves with FDR. I said we were defending ourselves against Al Qeada. Yet you say they are different. Yet your wrong.

You said we are not the world police in response to my statement that Saddam was killing his own people. By your logic, we should never help anyone. As such, we should have left the Jews in the camps.
Al Qaeda is defending themselves against us. You're wrong.

We didn't even know about the Final Solution until we actually got deeper into German territory. But yes, I support US neutrality. And it's not like we didn't help the Allies by giving them money and arms.
Oh, so we should over look his whole body of work, and just look at slavery? What a wonderful idea!

'Ending' slavery was an historic accomplishment. But his negatives still exist. Suspending the writ of habeas corpus in the north, imprisoning civilians for years without trial or charges, ordering a scorched earth policy in the south, circumventing congress, waging war on civilians....etc. etc.

When ranking an individual all history should be include, not just the more rosey moments. As I said Lincoln should be in the top 10 even the top 5, but number one given some of his actions, particularly in current view of these actions, is quite questionable. Take a history lesson.
I even agree with this.
Saysmydoctor: In one of these threads you said I pegged you wrong when I called you a liberal. Your profile lists you as "Very Liberal." Umm... I know you hate to admit you were wrong but I think I was close enough.
Sorry, the website didn't have a social democrat/populist/progressive choice. Considering liberals are merely centrists at this point, which I'm not, I'm not a liberal.

[loveisdead]

Just because you liberals change the rules to make your case a "Special Case" doesnt mean I am dumb or wrong.

you're trying to change history in order to win your argument.

[nothingclever]

Al Qeada is defending themselves? Do even remember 9/11?

[saysmydoctor]

Al Qeada is defending themselves? Do even remember 9/11?
THERE ARE MORE COLORS THAN BLACK AND WHITE. TIME ACTUALLY STARTED FAR BEFORE 2001. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.
x

[nothingclever]

you're trying to change history in order to win your argument.

Ha. I love this liberal crap. keep it coming.

[saysmydoctor]

Ha. I love this liberal crap. keep it coming.
Rush Limbaugh/Ann Coulter, is that you?

[loveisdead]

I'm beginning to think you're a fake account

[paper halo]

Damn liberals, making this guy look foolish.

[nothingclever]

Fake...This is the matrix its all fake. Wait, that doesnt work. According to the liberal way I should say that You, sir, are fake. I apologize if you are a lady.

[paper halo]

Fake...This is the matrix its all fake. Wait, that doesnt work. According to the liberal way I should say that You, sir, are fake. I apologize if you are a lady.

lolwut.

[saysmydoctor]

You are actually making me give credit to people like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and the ilk (excluding Rush and Coultergeist): they don't use the term every sentence to fear monger people to agree with them.

[StillTrying1288]

Ha. I love this liberal crap. keep it coming.

What crap he's right. Just like O'reily and his distorted view of history.

And by that I mean you like warping history to fit your point.

[loveisdead]

What crap he's right. Just like O'reily and his distorted view of history.

And by that I mean you like warping history to fit your point.
No don't give me credit, I'm a stupid liberal doing dumb liberal things and I deserve to go to hell.

[StillTrying1288]

No don't give me credit, I'm a stupid liberal doing dumb liberal things and I deserve to go to hell.

Sorry I forgot.

[loveisdead]

Sorry I forgot.
Haha, it's ok.

[nothingclever]

I forgot too...Wait, what?

Maybe if love wasnt dead you guys could be my friends. We could go to drive in and such. It would be great!

[loveisdead]

I forgot too...Wait, what?

Maybe if love wasnt dead you guys could be my friends. We could go to drive in and such. It would be great!
Troll. Go away.

[Machu505]

Holy fuck in this thread WW2 and the Iraq War were compared as if they were similar situations.

[nothingclever]

Troll? You have no idea how tall I am. That was a very liberal statement of you.

[nothingclever]

and if you were as liberal as you say or think you are, you would argue my right to be here and say whatever I want. You arent a very good liberal.

[xshady121]

Troll? You have no idea how tall I am. That was a very liberal statement of you.

Who are you?

edit: I believe you're taking my job.

[The Summer Ends]

James K. Polk, Reagan, and FDR deserve higher.

[WhitestKidUKnow]

polk should be higher

edit: I posted that before reading the post before mine hahaha

[nothingclever]

Who are you?

edit: I believe you're taking my job.

If this is your job, then you are a lucky man. Shall I relinquish my duties back to you?

[StillTrying1288]

I would of liked it if Ike were higher up.

[Machu505]

Nothingclever has said "liberal" 11 times in this thread.

[nothingclever]

Well, if we are going to have a real discussion in here...I believe Teddy should be ranked higher. And Reagan too. But if they tied for first I would still say they should be ranked higher.

[boykosaurus]

Troll? You have no idea how tall I am. That was a very liberal statement of you.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/8/80/Troll_Train.jpg

Who are you?

edit: I believe you're taking my job.

He's doing a piss poor one at that.

[mybreakingpoint]

pretty sure Harding should be last.

man was a fucking idiot.

"we're going to try & encourage national trade by increasing tarrifs."

fucking moron.

[mybreakingpoint]

i don't understand

how Andrew Jackson

could possibly be number 13

did they completely disregard the fact that he order thousands of smallpox-infested blankets be given to thousands of native americans on their trek from their homes to india territory?

if that's not deserving of a bottom 5 ranking, i don't know what is.

[nothingclever]

machu505 has said nothingclever too many times.

[nothingclever]

get it? HA

[nothingclever]

However, in all sincerity I commend you on your math skills. I am assuming that you are not a product of public school. As such you are probably from a very wealthy family. As such, you will be scorned by everyone on this board.

How did I do? I'm trying to be "Liberal" (thats 12 if you are counting). I think I really nailed that one on the head.

[nothingclever]

oh right, I almost forgot, "Your an idiot. Stop talking."

[Machu505]

machu505 has said nothingclever too many times.

Once?

[Machu505]

oh right, I almost forgot, "Your an idiot. Stop talking."

Well I'm no English professor...

[boykosaurus]

However, in all sincerity I commend you on your math skills. I am assuming that you are not a product of public school. As such you are probably from a very wealthy family. As such, you will be scorned by everyone on this board.

How did I do? I'm trying to be "Liberal" (thats 12 if you are counting). I think I really nailed that one on the head.

Public school is pretty darn good dude, depending on where you're from.

I think you need to stop trolling and take these discussions more seriously or, well, stop trolling.

[nothingclever]

Machu505: I was making a joke about my screen name. Which others have too. I truly did not mean anything against you. You are also correct about my poor spelling there. Thank you for bringing that up. I will fire my secretary immediately. See I just talk and she types it all for me. Its called "dictation." But since you can count to 11 you probably go to private school and already knew that.

[Machu505]

No I actually go to public school. My parents aren't wealthy at all.

Speaking of math skills, today is Square Root Day. Celebrate.

[nothingclever]

I was unaware of such a holiday. But I fully endorse that. By the way, let me know when the Pythagorean Theorem day is.

[xshady121]

I would recommend, nothing clever, that you quit arguing until something worth arguing at arises. The last thing you want to do is catch a mod on a bad day and get the banhammer.

Edit: or atleast pretend your argument pertains to the topic and can't be misconstrued for trolling.

[nothingclever]

Thank you Mr. Shady. In my defense, my posts have related. They say something and I respond to it. He said it was Square Rood Day and I expressed my enthusiasm. I will try and restrain in the future.

[loveisdead]

i don't understand

how Andrew Jackson

could possibly be number 13

did they completely disregard the fact that he order thousands of smallpox-infested blankets be given to thousands of native americans on their trek from their homes to india territory?

if that's not deserving of a bottom 5 ranking, i don't know what is.
Not to mention that when Marshall ruled in Worcester v. Georgia that Georgia doesn't have the legal authority to just ship the Indians out of Georgia and that they were owed federal protection, he said, "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." The guy was a total piece of shit.

[loveisdead]

Yeah I think I'm just gonna report him. He's a waste of everyone's time.

[nothingclever]

Yeah I think I'm just gonna report him. He's a waste of everyone's time.

If that is in response to me: (1) Well that is real mature; (2) What makes you think that will solve the problem? Hmm... a new screen name is all I need to register. Yup, I can handle that. (3) This thread has been dead for like an hour and now you grow a pair to say that?

[loveisdead]

If that is in response to me: (1) Well that is real mature; (2) What makes you think that will solve the problem? Hmm... a new screen name is all I need to register. Yup, I can handle that. (3) This thread has been dead for like an hour and now you grow a pair to say that?
1. None of your posts have been mature, intelligent or coherent
2. IP ban you dumb fuck
3. Sorry for having an internship

[nothingclever]

Hmmm... I have been on this two different days. None of which were from my computer. So my question stands. What IP are you going to ban me from. Mr. Smarty pants.

[nothingclever]

P.S. I accept your apology.

[loveisdead]

Hmmm... I have been on this two different days. None of which were from my computer. So my question stands. What IP are you going to ban me from. Mr. Smarty pants.
It can't mean that much to you to continue making new names just to annoy people. There's no way you get that much satisfaction from it.

[GRIFFARD]

FDR should've been #1 or #2.

I totally agree.
On a somewhat similar note, we have presidential march madness in my AP US history class, and I have been given George Washington and George W. Bush. It's going to be pretty crazy arguing FOR W.

[loveisdead]

I totally agree.
On a somewhat similar note, we have presidential march madness in my AP US history class, and I have been given George Washington and George W. Bush. It's going to be pretty crazy arguing FOR W.
Oh dear. Good luck.

[StillTrying1288]

I totally agree.
On a somewhat similar note, we have presidential march madness in my AP US history class, and I have been given George Washington and George W. Bush. It's going to be pretty crazy arguing FOR W.

Well apparently being the only president to "liberate" a middle east country is a big accomplishment according to some of my friends, didn't feel like arguing.

[TK]

I totally agree.
On a somewhat similar note, we have presidential march madness in my AP US history class, and I have been given George Washington and George W. Bush. It's going to be pretty crazy arguing FOR W.

He got Obama elected?

[saysmydoctor]

i don't understand

how Andrew Jackson

could possibly be number 13

did they completely disregard the fact that he order thousands of smallpox-infested blankets be given to thousands of native americans on their trek from their homes to india territory?

if that's not deserving of a bottom 5 ranking, i don't know what is.
Balanced the budget? War hero? I mean, I'm not denying what you are saying but he 'furthered' Manifest Destiny and Americans are selfish. So.
I totally agree.
On a somewhat similar note, we have presidential march madness in my AP US history class, and I have been given George Washington and George W. Bush. It's going to be pretty crazy arguing FOR W.

[mybreakingpoint]

Not to mention that when Marshall ruled in Worcester v. Georgia that Georgia doesn't have the legal authority to just ship the Indians out of Georgia and that they were owed federal protection, he said, "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." The guy was a total piece of shit.

exactly. i don't see why anyone, especially historians who are supposed to know all of this shit, can prefer him to 30 other presidents.

Balanced the budget? War hero? I mean, I'm not denying what you are saying but he 'furthered' Manifest Destiny and Americans are selfish. So.

both true, but i guess i just look at whether or not the good things he did outweighed the bad things he did, and in my eyes, he did way more things that negatively affected people & affected our country, than positive ones. killing all those native americans like that for no good reason pretty much cancels out anything he good did, in my eyes anyway.

[saysmydoctor]

Oh yeah, he'll never get any gold stars for human records, ever. I completely agree. But being the first president in history to pay off the national debt is damn noteworthy. Positive things affect people too. Hence why I even give Bush credit for helping the African Community a lot with AIDS and stuff. That is undeniable work on his part.

It's just that Iraq, etc, etc, etc totally outweighs that and makes him a piece of shit.

[boykosaurus]

If take it best then only name that comes in mind is Abraham Lincoln. Worst can’t say to anyone as all has done some or the other good things.




Uncensored News from Israel : Israeli News with a twist (http://samsonblinded.org/news) provides information on lots more on whats happening around the globe; more on this and other top news updates.

uhhhhh...

[boykosaurus]

No I actually go to public school. My parents aren't wealthy at all.

Speaking of math skills, today is Square Root Day. Celebrate.

That album fucking rules.

[loveisdead]

Oh yeah, he'll never get any gold stars for human records, ever. I completely agree. But being the first president in history to pay off the national debt is damn noteworthy. Positive things affect people too. Hence why I even give Bush credit for helping the African Community a lot with AIDS and stuff. That is undeniable work on his part.

It's just that Iraq, etc, etc, etc totally outweighs that and makes him a piece of shit.
He payed it off, but then it increased to 10 times what it was starting in his last year in office. Unfortunately CNN didn't do a top 10 people to blame for that financial crisis so I don't know how much he affected it.

[boykosaurus]

This just came out, I'm interested, but also skeptical. I don't like books that place the blame on one person or thing.

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/events/2009/02/img/myth1.jpg

[xshady121]

This just came out, I'm interested, but also skeptical. I don't like books that place the blame on one person or thing.

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/events/2009/02/img/myth1.jpg

HAHAHAHA

[boykosaurus]

Figures.

[Justin_stacy]

He payed it off, but then it increased to 10 times what it was starting in his last year in office. Unfortunately CNN didn't do a top 10 people to blame for that financial crisis so I don't know how much he affected it.

Well Time mag (http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350,00.html)did , although its missing some notiable figures.

[xshady121]

Figures.

I'm sure that book is about as reputable as Jerome Corsi's OBAMA NATION. I wish I had free time just so I can fact check this book.

[loveisdead]

Well Time mag (http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350,00.html)did , although its missing some notiable figures.
Oh thanks a lot for that. I didn't even bother trying to look something up.

Edit: I meant for the top 10 people to blame for the financial crisis at the end of Jackson's presidency haha.

[Justin_stacy]

Oh thanks a lot for that. I didn't even bother trying to look something up.

Edit: I meant for the top 10 people to blame for the financial crisis at the end of Jackson's presidency haha.

:-d

[boykosaurus]

I'm sure that book is about as reputable as Jerome Corsi's OBAMA NATION. I wish I had free time just so I can fact check this book.

I didn't say anything about the book other than it was out.

[benn10]

I'll guarantee that Obama will be ranked outside of the top 30 when his term is up.

[StillTrying1288]

Sure.

[Machu505]

Because one can totally judge that after 2 months of being in office.

[Burn That Shit]

I'm not a big Lincoln fan.

[domotime2]

Nixon wasnt last? intersante.

[TBSowns524]

i know someone was shit talking andrew jackson, and while i agree he was a scumbag with the trail of tears and just towards native americans in general, he did try and squelch the states rights and secession bs immediately. seriously, that major doucher john c calhoun threatened that south carolina would secede at a jefferson day dinner at the white house, and in front of everyone, jackson threatened to hang him if he mentioned it again. that's badass

[speakhandsforme]

Nixon wasnt last? intersante.

...or just practical. He is widely ranked in the middle of the list and would undoubtedly be higher if it were not for Watergate. I personally prefer a competent President that has been discovered to be corrupt than a less competent, less intelligent President that is just corrupt without the public's knowledge.

[blinkingfoo]

Jimmy Carter is way too high


and I still think that Kennedy's perception was helped by being assassinated as awful as that sounds

[loveisdead]

Jimmy Carter is way too high


and I still think that Kennedy's perception was helped by being assassinated as awful as that sounds
I kind of agree with that.

[rickmo]

Jimmy Carter is way too high


and I still think that Kennedy's perception was helped by being assassinated as awful as that sounds


do more research, you gotta find out why he's held in such high regard, rather than assume its cause he got shot. the things he had planned to do would have progressed us beyond our understanding.

[xshady121]

do more research, you gotta find out why he's held in such high regard, rather than assume its cause he got shot. the things he had planned to do would have progressed us beyond our understanding.

Haha, how naive. He wouldn't have even won re-election.

[mattybobviously]

Haha, how naive. He wouldn't have even won re-election.
Kennedy would have had no problem winning re-election in '64, unless his administration just fell to pieces. Who do you really think would've walked over him?

[Justin_stacy]

I agree that he had a strong chance at reelection, particularly if the GOP split again. But his victory in 1960 was by a slim 100,000 votes and there are some very legitimate questions as to whether he won it legally or not. So a moderate like Nixon could have given him a second run for his money. It just depends on how successfully he was with his goals and the publics reaction to them (Obama will face a similar question in four years.).

The landslide victory of the Democrats in '64, had alot to do with the assassination and therefore I don't think holds much weight in what might have been.

[xshady121]

I agree that he had a strong chance at reelection, particularly if the GOP split again. But his victory in 1960 was by a slim 100,000 votes and there are some very legitimate questions as to whether he won it legally or not. So a moderate like Nixon could have given him a second run for his money. It just depends on how successfully he was with his goals and the publics reaction to them (Obama will face a similar question in four years.).

The landslide victory of the Democrats in '64, had alot to do with the assassination and therefore I don't think holds much weight in what might have been.

Truth. The assisination also is one of the main reasons Kennedy people feel pressured to hold him in as high of regards as he is today. Don't get me wrong, anyone else with Cuban Missile Crisis and we don't get through it, and he was a great leader, it's just he also did a lot of bad that history tends to wash over due to his untimely end.

Although like I've said before he certainly cracks my top ten, maybe hitting as high as 5th or 6th.

[rickmo]

Haha, how naive. He wouldn't have even won re-election.

except for the fact he was gonna do away with the income tax and was the one who was gonna progress the civil rights movement a lot faster than it really happened. he was our last real president hence why he assasinated. Not to mention bring all of our troops home and use Americas infulence in a different way than it was used before and after him.

naive?? hardly.

[Machu505]

except for the fact he was gonna do away with the income tax and was the one who was gonna progress the civil rights movement a lot faster than it really happened. he was our last real president hence why he assasinated. Not to mention bring all of our troops home and use Americas infulence in a different way than it was used before and after him.

naive?? hardly.

Somebody's been watching The Obama Deception...

[rickmo]

Somebody's been watching The Obama Deception...


haha maybe a lil, but i have been interested about that whole subject for a while now, the obama decpetion isnt the first place that has explained it

[scenopath]

Currently taking "The American Presidency" in school, and I've seen the lists for the past few years.

I don't understand some of these ranking. Jefferson was not a great president, and 3 of the top 10 presidents died in office. Those three were great presidents, but personally, Wilson & LBJ > JFK.

[speakhandsforme]

Wilson & LBJ > JFK.

This is true, even though I've never been a fan of LBJ.

Also, props on the Buk avatar.

[Deathofarobot]

Reagan, for sure. He knew exactly how to balance foreign policy, the economy and funding for our troops.

Where did Clinton rank?

[Machu505]

Where did Clinton rank?

15.

[xshady121]

Currently taking "The American Presidency" in school, and I've seen the lists for the past few years.

I don't understand some of these ranking. Jefferson was not a great president, and 3 of the top 10 presidents died in office. Those three were great presidents, but personally, Wilson & LBJ > JFK.

Where do you go to school?

[scenopath]

This is true, even though I've never been a fan of LBJ.

Also, props on the Buk avatar.

LBJ is probably my choice for POTUS I'd most like to meet. I think he's probably one of the more personally interesting ones.

And thanks!

Where do you go to school?

A run of the mill Central MA high school hahah.

[thomastaylor]

Uncensored News from Israel : Israeli News with a twist (http://samsonblinded.org/news) provides information on lots more on whats happening around the globe; more on this and other top news updates. :-)

[foodpyramidguru]

John f kenady.

Sadness

[doppelganger]

i always really liked Truman and FDR. understandable why lincoln and washington are up top.

[stayforawhile]

John f kenady.

Sadness
Considering the short amount of time JFK was in office he did do a lot of influential and positive things.

[saysmydoctor]

Nixon wasnt last? intersante.
Probably because he did give Americans some social programs that are still with us to this day. And he crusaded environmental protection.
Jimmy Carter is way too high


and I still think that Kennedy's perception was helped by being assassinated as awful as that sounds
Jimmy Carter attempted to pave the way towards an America not dependent on fossil foreign fuels. Abroad, he was well-liked. Stagflation was a hard to overcome. The Hostage Crisis, he could not diplomatically resolve (because Reagan was doing backdoor deals). He is an average president.

Kennedy, in many's eyes, stopped a nuclear war from breaking out. He spearheaded civil rights (failed, but made it an issue).

The real shocker is why Reagan is so high.

[ostartero]

Because your version of cause and effect doesn't ever take into consideration the causes.

For instance, during the Depression when we put tariffs on imports from Japan, that pretty much forced their hand to go into Manchuria. We forced Japanese expansion. Cause. They expanded. Effect. They wanted the US out of their way, in the Phillipines. They attacked Pearl Harbor. Cause....of US intervention into WW2.

9/11 is even easier. US intervention in the Middle East, supporting governments with terrible human rights records (Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia), simply being present in the Middle East. Cause. Effect: pissed off islamic fundamentalists who are trying to get the US out of the Middle East.

Your second example isn't even our problem. The US is not the world's police force.

You're simplifying politics too much to have your argument looked at seriously.

The US is not the world's police force.
Whenever the United State's best interests are in danger we're going to have an appropriate response. That's what entire countries were made for.

[ostartero]

Probably because he did give Americans some social programs that are still with us to this day. And he crusaded environmental protection.

Jimmy Carter attempted to pave the way towards an America not dependent on fossil foreign fuels. Abroad, he was well-liked. Stagflation was a hard to overcome. The Hostage Crisis, he could not diplomatically resolve (because Reagan was doing backdoor deals). He is an average president.

Kennedy, in many's eyes, stopped a nuclear war from breaking out. He spearheaded civil rights (failed, but made it an issue).

The real shocker is why Reagan is so high.

Completely agree. I did some research on Reagan and wondered to myself if this was the same president that is so well liked.

[xshady121]

Probably because he did give Americans some social programs that are still with us to this day. And he crusaded environmental protection.

Jimmy Carter attempted to pave the way towards an America not dependent on fossil foreign fuels. Abroad, he was well-liked. Stagflation was a hard to overcome. The Hostage Crisis, he could not diplomatically resolve (because Reagan was doing backdoor deals). He is an average president.

Kennedy, in many's eyes, stopped a nuclear war from breaking out. He spearheaded civil rights (failed, but made it an issue).

The real shocker is why Reagan is so high.

Because he is awesome.

And he didn't try to solve our energy crisis by telling us to put on a sweater.

[TaraZatara]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29216774/
Best: Abraham Lincoln
Worst: James Buchanan
George W Bush : 36
Best presidents by me include Abraham Lincoln (for freeing the slaves. Poor blacks); John F. Kennedy, FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, and Bill Clinton.

[Ghostpsalm]

yeaaa! franklin pierce!

he's my great (x ???) grandfather! number 40!

fact: only president to have a known case of alcoholism while holding office.

i need a new claim to fame...

[Ghostpsalm]

ps. why is grant so high? i'd give him a straight f

[saysmydoctor]

You're simplifying politics too much to have your argument looked at seriously.

The US is not the world's police force.
Whenever the United State's best interests are in danger we're going to have an appropriate response. That's what entire countries were made for.
I'm sorry the politics are so simple they make the argument factual.
Because he is awesome.

And he didn't try to solve our energy crisis by telling us to put on a sweater.
Instead he ran up the national debt!

[B-Bones]

Oh, so we should over look his whole body of work, and just look at slavery? What a wonderful idea!

'Ending' slavery was an historic accomplishment. But his negatives still exist. Suspending the writ of habeas corpus in the north, imprisoning civilians for years without trial or charges, ordering a scorched earth policy in the south, circumventing congress, waging war on civilians....etc. etc.

When ranking an individual all history should be include, not just the more rosey moments. As I said Lincoln should be in the top 10 even the top 5, but number one given some of his actions, particularly in current view of these actions, is quite questionable. The number one spot should be almost above questioning, Linclon isn't.

Cry me a fuckin river. Most people in the world would still consider Lincoln to be the best president ever. Get over it man. Poor south. It's fine now! Get over it! He brought our country through the hardest time it's ever gone through. A Civil War! That's shit's for real. We would not exist if not for that man. Show a little respect.

[saysmydoctor]

Cry me a fuckin river. Most people in the world would still consider Lincoln to be the best president ever. Get over it man. Poor south. It's fine now! Get over it! He brought our country through the hardest time it's ever gone through. A Civil War! That's shit's for real. We would not exist if not for that man. Show a little respect.
I'm sorry, but suspending civil liberties and violating human rights, placing the South developmentally behind the rest of the country by nearly 50-75 years is not going to be an award pinned on Lincoln's chest.

[Justin_stacy]

Cry me a fuckin river. Most people in the world would still consider Lincoln to be the best president ever. Get over it man. Poor south. It's fine now! Get over it! He brought our country through the hardest time it's ever gone through. A Civil War! That's shit's for real. We would not exist if not for that man. Show a little respect.

....cause they like yourself have no concept of historic perspective. Ignorance is no excuse. You don't ignore one side of history just because the other side is more rosy, and easier to take.

Bush didn't do a tenth of what Lincoln did to actual US citizens, and a few are demanding charges against him....what does that say about Lincoln's proper legacy?

Educate yourself before you blindly dish out 'respect'.

[B-Bones]

You don't ignore one side of history just because the other side is more rosy, and easier to take.


But that's exactly what I do!

[Justin_stacy]

But that's exactly what I do!

then why quote me?

[saysmydoctor]

But that's exactly what I do!
Stick to Star Wars, we'll handle the historical-political consequences of the Lincoln legacy.

[ShShShark]

Reagan sure is a bit high on there.

[xshady121]

Reagan sure is a bit high on there.

reagan smash

[saysmydoctor]

Reagan sure is a bit high on there.
I haven't figured out who is worse, Bush or Reagan. Is it possible to have tie?

[ShShShark]

I haven't figured out who is worse, Bush or Reagan. Is it possible to have tie?

ugh, giving them any kind of award, even if its the "worst president" award, seems like too great of an honor for either.

[Machu505]

I haven't figured out who is worse, Bush or Reagan. Is it possible to have tie?

I would rank Bush lower. Reagan was a better orator.

[jwicklun]

haha maybe a lil, but i have been interested about that whole subject for a while now, the obama decpetion isnt the first place that has explained it
please don't listen to alex jones. the man is an idiot. I think Kennedy was somewhat overrated, he did contribute a bit to the start of vietnam war.