And all the Dems say "Uh ohhhhsss!"

[splitsecond]

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/5047870/detail.html?tabbox=pic


Pretty much I would say that Guliani or McCain could beat anyone the Dems put up. Just think if the two combined....

[jsteil]

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/5047870/detail.html?tabbox=pic


Pretty much I would say that Guliani or McCain could beat anyone the Dems put up. Just think if the two combined....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HA

Man that was pretty good, although i like McCain and would think about voting for him Guliani sucks a big one.

[Lueda Alia]

You think that people in the south will accept someone like Giuliani after his affair and such? I wouldn't say some people are the most open-minded.. especially in the South.

And I don't think it all depends on the candidates. After everything that's happening lately, the Republican party might be in big trouble in the next elections. We'll see next year how it goes, though.

[jsteil]

You think that people in the south will accept someone like Giuliani after his affair and such? I wouldn't say some people are the most open-minded.. especially in the South.

And I don't think it all depends on the candidates. After everything that's happening lately, the Republican party might be in big trouble in the next elections. We'll see next year how it goes, though.


You forgot about him critisizing the troops about not guarding the stockpiles of weapons in Iraq at the beginning of the war. My room mate who was part of all of that wants to punch Giuliani in the face. McCain though is a good choice, I second that one. I don't even know who the Dem's are looking at, but most of them are as worthless as all the Republicans.

[Kid Kilowatt]

The republican base won't allow a moderate to be nominated, and if somehow one is able to pull it off, the base will be split.

[GhostsDaddy]

Giuliani not only has too many I's in his name, I don't like him, and therefore, he won't be elected.

[aminorthreat55]

Pretty much I would say that Guliani or McCain could beat anyone the Dems put up. Just think if the two combined....
I would probably vote for McCain if he ran.

[splitsecond]

My real prediction is a McCain/Santorum ticket or something of that sort. They need a more conservative VP to balance the ticket and keep the support in the south.

[GhostsDaddy]

My real prediction is a huge loss for the Republicans in the midterm election, and the Dems using that to garner support so it doesn't matter who the Republicans nominate.

At any rate, I'd like to not see McCain run, just because that would be much too conservative to do the Dems any good.

[Lueda Alia]

I would probably vote for McCain if he ran.
noooooooooooooooooooo!

[TheOtherAndrew]

My real prediction is a McCain/Santorum ticket or something of that sort. They need a more conservative VP to balance the ticket and keep the support in the south.Santorum is one of the least popular Senators in the country, why would he get on the ticket?

[commatosa]

I think a really good race would be McCain vs. Clinton/Obama. Either way we'd be in good hands. As opposed to the last 2 presidential races where we're screwed either way. But the country still managed to go with the worse of 2 evils both times. Yeah, I'm hoping for a huge democrat victory in the midterm elections. I don't think congress should be dominated by either party. Our country has always been better off with a balanced congress.

[TheOtherAndrew]

I think a really good race would be McCain vs. Clinton/Obama.I agree. There's no way Obama's gonna run though, even for VP. He's way too inexperienced right now. Maybe in 2012...

[siberianxkiss]

I'd think maybe Biden for the Dems, or who knows it might be someone completely outta left field.

Guiliani is way too moderate to be the nominee, unless something changes within the party in the next couple of years

[Jason Tate]

Guliani is a douche bag. He came off well during the 9/11 stuff, but his record before that will sink him.

I agree. There's no way Obama's gonna run though, even for VP. He's way too inexperienced right now. Maybe in 2012...
God I hope so.

[splitsecond]

I think a really good race would be McCain vs. Clinton/Obama. Either way we'd be in good hands. As opposed to the last 2 presidential races where we're screwed either way. But the country still managed to go with the worse of 2 evils both times. Yeah, I'm hoping for a huge democrat victory in the midterm elections. I don't think congress should be dominated by either party. Our country has always been better off with a balanced congress.
Hillary Clinton is THE biggest mistake the Dems could make. People HATE that woman. Most of you arent old enough to know who Geraldine Ferraro is, but people hate Hillary 100x more than they did Ferraro. It wouldnt be pretty. The Dems have some good people, not limited to Biden and Liebermann. Hillary is no good, and Obam is a bit extreme at this point in his career.

[radiofriendly]

i like lieberman an awful lot

[youcomebeforeyo]

Someone made a point about Hillary and how if she got in it would have been a Bush/Clinton dynasty.

To me that seems just wrong, perhaps it's coming from a country with quite a different political system.

I've heard a lot about Obama but I honestely can't see the US electing a black president yet. As cool as it would be.

[Justin_stacy]

You think that people in the south will accept someone like Giuliani after his affair and such? I wouldn't say some people are the most open-minded.. especially in the South.
.

The affair will be of little importance.....but his pro-abortion and pro-gun elimination stances will be......

But the South will not just vote for anyone else, either, no New England far left elitist is going to take votes away from the Republicans in the south if Giuliani is nominated. They may not like some of his stances, but the alternative is considerable much worse.

Second, my personal feelings are this, it’s McCain’s race to lose. No one on the left, at least as of now, is going to be able to beat him, nor is the left, with such an extremist base, going to be able to push a moderate nominee, as was show in the 04' elections. So McCain could possible have an easy run at it. As he being a true moderate would be able to pick up swing voters and republicans alike and if he chooses a strong conservative or a Blue Dog liberal as his vice he'll be able to pick up one of the two other large groups of voters.

The republican base won't allow a moderate to be nominated, and if somehow one is able to pull it off, the base will be split.

They've done it recently and been able to bring out both portions of the party in droves............now we'll see if the Democrats, with a true extremist base, can do like wise and promote a liberal moderate, like say Lieberman, for their nominee, or whether they'll have to settle again for an idealogue like Kerry.....

[ghostyouare]

I've heard a lot about Obama but I honestely can't see the US electing a black president yet.Same goes for a woman

[Justin_stacy]

i like lieberman an awful lot

me too but someone like him would never get the nod from the democratic base.

[richter915]

as a "liberal" I'd be against Guiliani

but as a New Yorker (and seeing the good he's done for us)...I'd probably vote for him over most Dems (especially if Clinton is gonna run)

[I am all talk]

Like I said in the other forum

McCain '08
Obama '12

Hillary never. it's that simple.

[YouMadeTheScene]

If anyone knows me they know how radical I am but If i had to have a president out of all the canidates right now I'd take McCain. and if you want to section me to a party i guess you'd call me a far left democrat, but I just think McCain really has his head on straight, and if you watched him rip apart the US Generals today it was great. This guy wants us out of Iraq.

[richter915]

If anyone knows me they know how radical I am but If i had to have a president out of all the canidates right now I'd take McCain. and if you want to section me to a party i guess you'd call me a far left democrat, but I just think McCain really has his head on straight, and if you watched him rip apart the US Generals today it was great. This guy wants us out of Iraq.
I really think I need to start looking more into McCain...why did he not run in the last election?

[Kid Kilowatt]

They've done it recently and been able to bring out both portions of the party in droves............now we'll see if the Democrats, with a true extremist base, can do like wise and promote a liberal moderate, like say Lieberman, for their nominee, or whether they'll have to settle again for an idealogue like Kerry.....The far right would never endorse a moderate republican president, simply because of the power he wields, and if he disagrees with them on various parts of their agenda, such as abortion, or gay rights, he could prove to be a monkey wrench in their plans.
Kerry was a very middle of the road person, and in my opinion,an appeaser, rather than someone who wanted to institute change, however, in contrast to conservatives, he looked like a flaming liberal.
For those of you who want Obama, you must realize that he needs to be in government for a longer period of time in order to develop a record before he accepted an oppurtunity to become vice-president, as without one, he is a liability. In my opinion, 2008 will be another mediocre showing by the democrats and republicans, but I suppose you cannot expect much from the two party system. If the democrats were intelligent, they'd nominate an anti-war candidate.

[Cal Smith]

First, for those that dont think a more moderate ticket like Mccain/Guiliani couldnt carry the Rep. Party or the South would also have to consider the other side and that seems to be Hillary at this point. That being the case they'll have no problem

Also, as far as Obama, I dont dislike/like him but he's one of the most overhyped news creations in the political world. For example, many of you seem to think he's the second coming but what has he done?

[Justin_stacy]

The far right would never endorse a moderate republican president, simply because of the power he wields, and if he disagrees with them on various parts of their agenda, such as abortion, or gay rights, he could prove to be a monkey wrench in their plans..

That is such bullshit, first a moderate, per say is not someone who would support total discretionary abortions without limitations, nor would it be someone who would support redefining marriage.........so your examples are just nonsense. Your perception of what a moderate is does not ring true with the American public’s perception. Second the Republican base, unlike the democrats, is not dominated by the extreme wing of the party and the party as a whole has been shown to work with moderate candidate in order to retain power, Spector is a perfect example of this.

Kerry was a very middle of the road person, and in my opinion,an appeaser,.

Most extreme left wing voting record of anyone in the senate..........someone worse then Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, Turbin or Boxer......so again your example is bullshit. Kerry was an extreme ideologue, and a weak candidate, and until the left understands that they can't win with a New England elitist they won't recapture the White House. And in 08’ the Republicans will again take the White House by putting up a candidate who is slightly right of center, against another New England styled liberal in Clinton.

. If the democrats were intelligent, they'd nominate an anti-war candidate.

And make 90% of their senaters look like fools.........or that their pandering to nuts like Moore, or Sheehan or the fanatical "war" protesters........that would be about the most unintelligent thing the left could do if they want to win middle America.

[HashHolly]

for some reason i keep hearing hilary + obama vs. rice + god knows who......if it does come down to that for 08, shit could u imagine, a minority runnin das whitehouse.....it'll never happen tho....

[siberianxkiss]

i'd like to see rice vs hilary in 2008. america needs a good cat fight.

obviously that wont happen though

[Kid Kilowatt]

That is such bullshit, first a moderate, per say is not someone who would support total discretionary abortions without limitations, nor would it be someone who would support redefining marriage.........so your examples are just nonsense. Your perception of what a moderate is does not ring true with the American public’s perception. Second the Republican base, unlike the democrats, is not dominated by the extreme wing of the party and the party as a whole has been shown to work with moderate candidate in order to retain power, Spector is a perfect example of this.I never said a moderate would support abortion without limitations, only that they are pro-choice, and regardless of whether or not they believe in restrictions, the right will not like them, simply for their pro-choice attitudes. I also never said anything about gay marriage, I said gay rights, which means the right of a gay couple to receive all the benefits that heterosexual couples. The right also vehemently opposes this. As for the republicans base, it is silly to believe that the right-wing Christians do not wield a lot of power.




Most extreme left wing voting record of anyone in the senate..........someone worse then Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, Turbin or Boxer......so again your example is bullshit. Kerry was an extreme ideologue, and a weak candidate, and until the left understands that they can't win with a New England elitist they won't recapture the White House. And in 08’ the Republicans will again take the White House by putting up a candidate who is slightly right of center, against another New England styled liberal in ClintonQUOTE]
I would go on about how the right has misrepresented his record, but I care nothing for him as a candidate, due to his dedication to betraying the left.
And it is doubtful the republicans will gain the White House again in '08.
[QUOTE=Justin_stacy]
And make 90% of their senaters look like fools.........or that their pandering to nuts like Moore, or Sheehan or the fanatical "war" protesters........that would be about the most unintelligent thing the left could do if they want to win middle America.Middle America wants the US out of Iraq.

[Cal Smith]

I never said a moderate would support abortion without limitations, only that they are pro-choice, and regardless of whether or not they believe in restrictions, the right will not like them, simply for their pro-choice attitudes. I also never said anything about gay marriage, I said gay rights, which means the right of a gay couple to receive all the benefits that heterosexual couples. The right also vehemently opposes this. As for the republicans base, it is silly to believe that the right-wing Christians do not wield a lot of power.

since when does moderate mean pro-choice?

[Justin_stacy]

I never said a moderate would support abortion without limitations, only that they are pro-choice, and regardless of whether or not they believe in restrictions, the right will not like them, simply for their pro-choice attitudes. I also never said anything about gay marriage, I said gay rights, which means the right of a gay couple to receive all the benefits that heterosexual couples. The right also vehemently opposes this. As for the republicans base, it is silly to believe that the right-wing Christians do not wield a lot of power.

A moderate is "pro-choice"......what? And Gay "rights" in reference to civil union could pass in the south and the mid-west, if far left groups and gay groups wouldn't ram the redefining of marriage proposal down our throats. Its gays and the left's fault that states are starting to prohibit civil unions, something i feel shoudn't be done and voted against. If they had acted calmly and with restraint this wouldn't have happened. This is the cause and effect example playing out. But again if Republicans had a choice between a Republican, that want to allow civil unions, and a Democrat who wanted to redefine marriage, which do you think they’d pick. So Giuliani, again, is not out of the question, everything must be viewed in comparison.

Oh I’m silly :thumbsup: . Well you’re out of your mind if you think the "Christians" right wields as much power with in the party as the "Sorro's" arm of left does in the Democratic Party. If the "Christians" right had that much power how come far right candidates like Bauers or Keys made no head way in the 00' elections? But in the reverse no moderate liberal candidates made any head way in the 04' election on the Democrats side? And that shows the difference; the Democratic base is run by fanatics, and so they must pander to this. While the RNC base, which does have some "fanatics," is not controlled by it and is able to push up moderate candidates, and it will do so again.

Another main difference between the parties is that the Republicans are willing to do what it takes to retain, or gain power. While the Democrats continue to not understand this philosophy.


I would go on about how the right has misrepresented his record, but I care nothing for him as a candidate, due to his dedication to betraying the left.

And it is doubtful the republicans will gain the White House again in '08.
Middle America wants the US out of Iraq.

It was National Journal that ranked all the senators, not just Democrats.

Who do you think can beat McCain? The DNC choices have pretty much been confirmed, so who? Bieden? Clinton? Feingold? Kerry? Edwards? Dashcle? or Gore? Not one of these people is going to resonate with moderate Americans, like McCain will.

The one point I’ll give you is that Bayh, Richardson or Warner would be able to put up a strong fight if they could get past the name recognition hurdles. But none of these people could make it past the DNC base. Democrats won't be able to nominate a moderate until they take back the base.

[Rebs]

I'm a conservative, but I love Obama. I hate Hilary Clinton. I would like to see Obama run in '12, I would probably vote for Guiliani if he ran, and I live in the south.

[Kid Kilowatt]

since when does moderate mean pro-choice?
It was an example, as moderate means containing views from both sides.

[FstFtsVsFences]

After everything that's happening lately, the Republican party might be in big trouble in the next elections. We'll see next year how it goes, though.
That's what people were saying during the last elections and look what ended up happening. Can't say I can complain though.

[SePaMc]

I don't read through everything ,and I don't mean to sound like an ass...

But a woman for pres and an african-american for vice pres? How progressive do you think this country is? I think you will be lucky to get one or the other, not both.

[Kid Kilowatt]

A moderate is "pro-choice"......what? And Gay "rights" in reference to civil union could pass in the south and the mid-west, if far left groups and gay groups wouldn't ram the redefining of marriage proposal down our throats. Its gays and the left's fault that states are starting to prohibit civil unions, something i feel shoudn't be done and voted against. If they had acted calmly and with restraint this wouldn't have happened. This is the cause and effect example playing out. But again if Republicans had a choice between a Republican, that want to allow civil unions, and a Democrat who wanted to redefine marriage, which do you think they’d pick. So Giuliani, again, is not out of the question, everything must be viewed in comparison.
Gays aren't ramming their views down our throat, they simply feel they are being denied rights. Saying they are doing so would be comparable to saying civil rights activists were ramming their views down the throats of the people, as the majority of the people were opposed to it.


Oh I’m silly :thumbsup: . Well you’re out of your mind if you think the "Christians" right wields as much power with in the party as the "Sorro's" arm of left does in the Democratic Party. If the "Christians" right had that much power how come far right candidates like Bauers or Keys made no head way in the 00' elections? But in the reverse no moderate liberal candidates made any head way in the 04' election on the Democrats side? And that shows the difference; the Democratic base is run by fanatics, and so they must pander to this. While the RNC base, which does have some "fanatics," is not controlled by it and is able to push up moderate candidates, and it will do so again.
Both parties have their masters. Bush, with his strong Christian background, was a viable candidate. I do not consider the people who ran for president fanatics. They pandered to the right, because of the influence they have. They're betrayers of the left more than anything else. As for the RNC's lack of fanatics, that is debateable, as I can point to their intervention with Terry Schiavo as an indication of being controlled by the Christian right, which the American public didn't agree with. I can also point to members of their party going before right wing organisations like The Family Research Council to make their case.


Another main difference between the parties is that the Republicans are willing to do what it takes to retain, or gain power.
This is not always a good thing.

It was National Journal that ranked all the senators, not just Democrats.
I've seen other records indicating he was far lower than the status they put forth.


Who do you think can beat McCain? The DNC choices have pretty much been confirmed, so who? Bieden? Clinton? Feingold? Kerry? Edwards? Dashcle? or Gore? Not one of these people is going to resonate with moderate Americans, like McCain will.
All Americans Americans have to see is the state the government is in after having a republican house, senate, and executive.


The one point I’ll give you is that Bayh, Richardson or Warner would be able to put up a strong fight if they could get past the name recognition hurdles. But none of these people could make it past the DNC base. Democrats won't be able to nominate a moderate until they take back the base.
The majority of their constituents are moderate liberals, and they will make Hillary the nominee due to name recognition.

Personally, I believe any candidate nominated by both parties will be mediocre, which is why we need viable third parties.

That's what people were saying during the last elections and look what ended up happening. Can't say I can complain though.
Corruption and Katrina weren't in the headlines last year.

[aminorthreat55]

Another main difference between the parties is that the Republicans are willing to do what it takes to retain, or gain power.
Machiavelli anyone?

[Cal Smith]

It was an example, as moderate means containing views from both sides.

No it doesnt. Being moderate simply means not being extreme. That might include having views from both sides and it might not. You can have every conservative view in the world and be a moderate. :shake:

[Kid Kilowatt]

No it doesnt. Being moderate simply means not being extreme. That might include having views from both sides and it might not. You can have every conservative view in the world and be a moderate. :shake:If you have every conservative view in the world, and actively work to pass those, then you're not in the center.

[Cal Smith]

If you have every conservative view in the world, and actively work to pass those, then you're not in the center.

Again not true..........you can hold every liberal/conservative view there is and try to pass them. The key to being a moderate is compromising and being able to see the other sides views.
You can't win all the battles and you have to know the ones you can't win and be able to compromise then.

[Justin_stacy]

Gays aren't ramming their views down our throat, they simply feel they are being denied rights. Saying they are doing so would be comparable to saying civil rights activists were ramming their views down the throats of the people, as the majority of the people were opposed to it..

First its two different things, so they are not comparable in that way. Second they are ramming it down people's throats by not taking it slowly, being unwilling to compromise and by using back door tactics, such as shopping activist judges, which in turn takes the subject out of the hands of the elected legislative branch where it belongs.

In turn they are, by their own actions, causing the back lash you are seeing now.

As for the RNC's lack of fanatics, that is debateable, as I can point to their intervention with Terry Schiavo as an indication of being controlled by the Christian right, which the American public didn't agree with. I can also point to members of their party going before right wing organisations like The Family Research Council to make their case...

Terry Schiavo is a fair example of a few Republicans pandering to the Christian right. I can’t deny it nor defend there actions. But the level of pandering to the extremes of the party is where I think the two differ, not that it is nonexistent on one side or the other…...and again when looking at the presidential races, because regionally ones differ so greatly, one just has to note who are the individuals that gain the most steam, to see what control the extreme wings of the party have over the whole party.

This is not always a good thing...

Being seated next to friend is always better then being seated next to an enemy..........though I can see where comprising too much on certain ideas could be a bad thing, so point taken, but being unwilling to compromise at all could lead to equally bad things....

And in the context of seating moderates, as opposed to losing elections, there’s hardly room to fault them.

All Americans Americans have to see is the state the government is in after having a republican house, senate, and executive....

06' will show how the public feels about the other branch of the government, and if democrats don't make some major, major, head ways, which from what I’ve read is unlikely (although some seats are likely to swap hands), the 08' presidential race is going to be no picnic, no matter what the standing president looks like.

The majority of their constituents are moderate liberals, and they will make Hillary the nominee due to name recognition...

That being true, would allow them to make gains into "Red States" that wouldn't normally be possible with regular DNC nominees. McCain or Giuliani will makes gains in "Blue States," you can not deny that, which means that Democrats will have to over come, or counter, this and honestly I can’t see Hilary being able to do that, unlike Richardson or Warner could.
Call me partisan, but Hilary will be a very divisive nominee, and one that will have to over come much more then McCain will in the public perception arena.

which is why we need viable third parties.

Ross takes a lot of blame for that in my opinion his antics put the concept of a moderate third party back many generations.

It also doesn't help that most of the current crop of third parties are born out of, or taken over by, the extreme wings of political thought. The Greens and the Reformers are perfect examples of this. Neither Nader nor Buchanan really offered any true hope for Americans looking else for leadership as they both just played to fringe groups.

[YouMadeTheScene]

People like Obama because of that speech. Fuck Tony Robinson could get up there and give a speech and fly off the handle but you don't see me saying Tony Robinson in 08' "He'll Tighten America's Economical Abs"

McCain and Guliani ticket would do really well. Guliani has to many negative connotaions from divorce and cheating (religious people say no no) to being italian (south would say no no) so a bid for president would be not so good. But as a VP I think he fits great. McCain is going to be the next president. He captures the attention of young voters as a Liberal Repbulican and is pretty straight forward. If anyone saw him interrogating the Iraqi General's it is great. I mean he all but said we need out of Iraq and we are doing a shitty job. I think we are 8 years off from a minority president and hate to burst everyones bubbles put Hillary will never be president neither will Rice. I think Obama has a chance down the line and Powell could easily win. But I think McCain wins as there are no Democrats really standing out right now.