Is anyone else excited!!!!

[getupkid53]

Is anyone else excited that we, as young adults, will inherit all of our nations current debt from Iraq and Afghanastan (280 billion) , Hurricane Katrina (over 200 billion) , and the other things we are throwing money at... in the form of massive tax increases. These tax increases will be on your property (already at nearly 8% in chicago.... on a 200,000 dollar house, that is 1300 dollars a month just in property tax), an increase in sales tax on everything from groceries and clothes, to concert tickets, auto taxes, gas taxes and any other damn tax you can think of. Who else is as thrilled as I am to be graduating college and entering a world in where the dollar loses value to the euro every day, inflation is increasing exponentially... while pay rates are increasing at less than a quarter of inflation, and we have a president who refuses to apologize for making an incorrect assumption (or flat out lying) about Iraq.... who else is excited that this administration is ruining our kids and their kids future?

I had to get this off my chest, I have been a republican for far too long. I even voted for Bush a year ago. These views make me an outcast in the conservative community, but screw 'em. They are blind!

ps - I still consider myself conservative. You know with abortion and all... and even though I don't agree with the war, i think the president could have earned himself a heck of alot of points by apologizing about not finding WMD's (he could even say he believes they are there, but just too well hidden), and stop trying to make himself look like he doesnt screw up. Hell, Clinton got impeached for trying to make it look like he never screwed up.

[MLLMillenium]

I too am a republican. Although.. I have been finding it harder and harder to remain one everyday... especially since I started taking political science.. I'm very rapidly becoming a democrat.

[getupkid53]

I'd say fiscally I can no longer be a republican. And as a christian, I definitely want to distance myself from the idiocy that is Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, President Bush, and Fox news, but I still hold alot of my biblical moral beliefs. Which lead me to be a liberal - conservative? A conservative democrat possibly. It's really frustrating for me, that most conservatives can't see you as a democrat and a christian. It makes me laugh, but also makes me realize why people hate christians so much. I hate religious people. I definitely feel that the 'neo-conservative, religious right wing' has forgotten what Jesus (who supposedly is their mentor) speaks of in the New Testament. The vile they spew from there mouth makes me question alot of things. As for my beliefs, those loons will get they kumuppins (not a real word) when they are judged by their maker.

[Justin_stacy]

I'd say fiscally I can no longer be a republican. And as a christian, I definitely want to distance myself from the idiocy that is Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, President Bush, and Fox news, but I still hold alot of my biblical moral beliefs. Which lead me to be a liberal - conservative? A conservative democrat possibly. It's really frustrating for me, that most conservatives can't see you as a democrat and a christian. It makes me laugh, but also makes me realize why people hate christians so much. I hate religious people. I definitely feel that the 'neo-conservative, religious right wing' has forgotten what Jesus (who supposedly is their mentor) speaks of in the New Testament. The vile they spew from there mouth makes me question alot of things. As for my beliefs, those loons will get they kumuppins (not a real word) when they are judged by their maker.

I too find it hard nowadays to be labeled a "republican." It saddens me greatly that the liberal wing of the party, Neo-Cons, and the far-right wing of the party, the "religious right", have taken over, joined forces and are now controling the policy making and public image of the party. Its even more saddening/ironic in the fact that neither, traditionally speaking, represents the true ideas of the party, or why the average citizen is drawn to the party or conservativism (something the majority of Americans label themselves as).....

And the term i think your looking for is Blue Dog Democrats, rather then "conservative democrat" or "liberal conservative".....

[Lueda Alia]

I wish more conservatives/republicans were the same way and didn't follow the Republican party so blindly. It makes me wonder how anyone can be okay with some of the things that the government does and the things that people in the party say. But yeah, I'm glad there's some of you who do question things.

[Justin_stacy]

And i wish more liberal/democrats were the same way, particuarly those of the college age, who act like nothing more then puppets to what their "teachers" say..........

Questioning is a universal need, and is in just as much need on the left (just look at who controls the DNC ), as it is on the right.

[Lueda Alia]

And i wish more liberal/democrats were the same way, particuarly those of the college age, who act like nothing more then puppets to what their "teachers" say..........

Questioning is a universal need, and is in just as much need on the left (just look at who controls the DNC ), as it is on the right.
obviously, that doesn't apply only to republicans/conservatives. and just for your information, that is exactly why I don't necessarily support any party. sure, I may favour the democratic one but only because of what they believe in. but I'm no big supporter of the party itself, just their ideas. does that make sense?

[Justin_stacy]

obviously, that doesn't apply only to republicans/conservatives. and just for your information, that is exactly why I don't necessarily support any party. sure, I may favour the democratic one but only because of what they believe in. but I'm no big supporter of the party itself, just their ideas. does that make sense?

I know how you feel, but I couldn't just leave the impression that conservatives were the only ones that needed to start thinking outside of the current party line. Fair?


And I’ll have you know that recently I’ve been starting to favor the idea of a multi-party system, something that a year ago I would have feverishly opposed. And this is all thanks to social liberals, like bush, who have bastardized what the Republican Party once stood for........

Sometimes i just get the feeling that some problems aren't worth fixing and that one should just start anew...

[open mind]

i have to agree with what lewis black has said, the democratic party is a party of no ideas and the rebulican party is a party of bad ideas............either way we're fucked, and it'll stay that way as long as large corporations, they're board members, and the rest of the elite control who gets elected, so a multi-party system won't change jack shit.

[Dan Hollister]

Yeah, I don't understand why people don't realize that BOTH extremes are equally dangerous.

It's only been in recent years that we've been getting canditates that are EXTREMELY republican and EXTREMELY democrat. Until just a few years ago, many candidates (and Presients) were more middle-of-the-road, but were still on one side of the line. But most were more still not at an extreme.

These days, the republicans are too afraid of losing the republican vote, so they find the most conservative people on the planet to run for President. And to combat it, the democrats try to find the most liberal people on the planet to run against them. It's pathetic, both sides are complete idiots. I voted for Bush, and I now think he's an idiot, but in hindsight I don't think Kerry had chance of being decent either.

Someone like John McCain, who's more middle-of-the-road republican, would be a good choice. In fact, some polls showed that even a lot of democrats would've voted for him.

And that's exactly why the republicans didn't want him.

Extremes are always bad. A moderate conservative or liberal who knows their stuff is fine. Someone who is so far to the right or left that they can't even see the other side.. that's dangerous, regardless of what side you're on. Same thing applies to the rest of the world. Muslim fundamentalism is dangerous, but so is Christian fundamentalism. Or hardcore feminists, or hardcore civil rights activists, or anything extreme. All it causes are problems. In order to have problems resolved, and to hear the voice of the people, you must be able to hear all aspects.

[Cal Smith]

I know how you feel, but I couldn't just leave the impression that conservatives were the only ones that needed to start thinking outside of the current party line. Fair?


And I’ll have you know that recently I’ve been starting to favor the idea of a multi-party system, something that a year ago I would have feverishly opposed. And this is all thanks to social liberals, like bush, who have bastardized what the Republican Party once stood for........

Sometimes i just get the feeling that some problems aren't worth fixing and that one should just start anew...

that's why i hope to see someone like Newt or JC Watts running in 08'...........how beautiful of a ticket it would be if they were together.

[Justin_stacy]

that's why i hope to see someone like Newt or JC Watts running in 08'...........how beautiful of a ticket it would be if they were together.

They'd never win with Newt, you should know better! As for Watts that would be cool, although he'd have to be vice to a more well known name.

I wonder what Ted Rall would think of Watts running?..........maybe another four years of "house n****r" comments would finally show the African American community what the Democratic elites really think of them.....

[commatosa]

I think we should do away with political parties and it should be against the law to not vote.

[Dan Hollister]

The problem is that what we're seeing here isn't directly what the republican party stands for. Both parties don't stand for what they used to. People equate "tons of spending" to the republican party. or "making laws based on religion to the republican party. Or even "Bush" to the republican party. But in reality, most republicans are much more middle-of-the-road than that. You look at our former republican presidents from the past, and most didn't have these problems. Many of them were some of the best presidents we've ever had.

I think it's time for us to say we don't like Bush. Modern conservatism in general isn't too bad. Throw away the religion and the things religion influences (abortion, homosexuals, etc), and throw away Bush, and you have yourselves a much more functional party than the democrats.

Sorry, guys. But I'm not going to back down because Bush is a moron. He is indeed stupid, he's spending a lot of money, and he's ruining a lot of things. But he's not your average republican, either. Both parties have flaws, and both parties have strengths. But when it comes down to flat-out keeping our country competetive and prosperous - i.e. what really matters in our country more than trees - the democrats have a much further way to go than the republicans at obtaining this goal.

Bush is an idiot. Should've voted for a different republic in the primaries, like McCain.

Both parties have no clue how to make this country right. They just don't realize that if the 2 parties actually listened to each other, and became more middle-of-the-road, we'd be fine. Most Americans themselves are middle-of-the-road. People seem to think that everyone who voted for Bush was some Red State warmonger hillbilly. Not true. There are many of these people, but in reality most Americans far much closer to the middle of the road than to one particular side.

[selftitled85]

Is anyone else excited that we, as young adults, will inherit all of our nations current debt from Iraq and Afghanastan (280 billion) , Hurricane Katrina (over 200 billion) , and the other things we are throwing money at... in the form of massive tax increases. These tax increases will be on your property (already at nearly 8% in chicago.... on a 200,000 dollar house, that is 1300 dollars a month just in property tax), an increase in sales tax on everything from groceries and clothes, to concert tickets, auto taxes, gas taxes and any other damn tax you can think of. Who else is as thrilled as I am to be graduating college and entering a world in where the dollar loses value to the euro every day, inflation is increasing exponentially... while pay rates are increasing at less than a quarter of inflation, and we have a president who refuses to apologize for making an incorrect assumption (or flat out lying) about Iraq.... who else is excited that this administration is ruining our kids and their kids future?

I had to get this off my chest, I have been a republican for far too long. I even voted for Bush a year ago. These views make me an outcast in the conservative community, but screw 'em. They are blind!

ps - I still consider myself conservative. You know with abortion and all... and even though I don't agree with the war, i think the president could have earned himself a heck of alot of points by apologizing about not finding WMD's (he could even say he believes they are there, but just too well hidden), and stop trying to make himself look like he doesnt screw up. Hell, Clinton got impeached for trying to make it look like he never screwed up.


im a stalwart democrat...and i still find you to be a tool

do you think you or your parents would vote in someone who said they were gonna raise taxes??

and about the inflation. yes its gone up recently. compare us to other nations, we are nowhere near as bad as them. prices have stayed rather steady.

and clinton didnt get impeached for not admitting he screwed up. clinton was impeached for lying under oath.

[commatosa]

The problem is that what we're seeing here isn't directly what the republican party stands for. Both parties don't stand for what they used to. People equate "tons of spending" to the republican party. or "making laws based on religion to the republican party. Or even "Bush" to the republican party. But in reality, most republicans are much more middle-of-the-road than that. You look at our former republican presidents from the past, and most didn't have these problems. Many of them were some of the best presidents we've ever had.

I think it's time for us to say we don't like Bush. Modern conservatism in general isn't too bad. Throw away the religion and the things religion influences (abortion, homosexuals, etc), and throw away Bush, and you have yourselves a much more functional party than the democrats.

Sorry, guys. But I'm not going to back down because Bush is a moron. He is indeed stupid, he's spending a lot of money, and he's ruining a lot of things. But he's not your average republican, either. Both parties have flaws, and both parties have strengths. But when it comes down to flat-out keeping our country competetive and prosperous - i.e. what really matters in our country more than trees - the democrats have a much further way to go than the republicans at obtaining this goal.

Bush is an idiot. Should've voted for a different republic in the primaries, like McCain.

Both parties have no clue how to make this country right. They just don't realize that if the 2 parties actually listened to each other, and became more middle-of-the-road, we'd be fine. Most Americans themselves are middle-of-the-road. People seem to think that everyone who voted for Bush was some Red State warmonger hillbilly. Not true. There are many of these people, but in reality most Americans far much closer to the middle of the road than to one particular side.
why couldn't you guys realize this 1 year ago?

[Stereo Mike]

no.

[getupkid53]

im a stalwart democrat...and i still find you to be a tool

do you think you or your parents would vote in someone who said they were gonna raise taxes??

and about the inflation. yes its gone up recently. compare us to other nations, we are nowhere near as bad as them. prices have stayed rather steady.

and clinton didnt get impeached for not admitting he screwed up. clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
I know Clinton got impeached for lying under oath jackass. I was referring to the point that he was to proud to admit he screwed up and figured he could weasel his way out of it. No one would have impeached him if he admitted to his mistakes right. Last time I checked infidelity was not quite an impeachable offense (ehem... JFK).

No I don't think myself or my parents would vote someone in who said that, but if a candidate says he won't, but he finds other ways to screw you out of your cash.....(ie. Our energy prices going up 50%, that is going to kill me living in Minnesota (oh and the government shot down a bill this week to assist lower income families with their energy costs)... or raising gas taxes (lowering emissions standards on coal oil refineries and then passing a tax bill for cleaner fuel burning, passed on to the lovely public.), or cutting taxes for big business, or a million other ways to keep these jerk offs wealthy)), he is even worse than they guy who says you're taxes are going to raise (or we could pull a Lisa Simpson and call it a 'Temporary Refund Adjustment').

As for inflation (we can start calling it price gouging ) did you read that Conoco Oil's profits went up 89% this quarter, or that BP Amoco's went up nearly 50%. You and I weren't paying extra money because oil prices were soaring or because of the hurricanes. The proof is in the pudding. Also, I was never comparing us to other countries. I just said ours was bad.

[Lueda Alia]

I know how you feel, but I couldn't just leave the impression that conservatives were the only ones that needed to start thinking outside of the current party line. Fair?


And I’ll have you know that recently I’ve been starting to favor the idea of a multi-party system, something that a year ago I would have feverishly opposed. And this is all thanks to social liberals, like bush, who have bastardized what the Republican Party once stood for........

Sometimes i just get the feeling that some problems aren't worth fixing and that one should just start anew...
yes, I understand. I was actually going to say, "this applies to people on both sides, but since we're talking about the current government... there is no reason for me to bring up the liberals/democrats." if that makes any sense. but anyway yeah, I knew you could take it the way you did.

and I agree about having more than two parties. a huge country like the U.S. needs to give people more options.

[selftitled85]

I know Clinton got impeached for lying under oath jackass. I was referring to the point that he was to proud to admit he screwed up and figured he could weasel his way out of it. No one would have impeached him if he admitted to his mistakes right. Last time I checked infidelity was not quite an impeachable offense (ehem... JFK).

No I don't think myself or my parents would vote someone in who said that, but if a candidate says he won't, but he finds other ways to screw you out of your cash.....(ie. Our energy prices going up 50%, that is going to kill me living in Minnesota (oh and the government shot down a bill this week to assist lower income families with their energy costs)... or raising gas taxes (lowering emissions standards on coal oil refineries and then passing a tax bill for cleaner fuel burning, passed on to the lovely public.), or cutting taxes for big business, or a million other ways to keep these jerk offs wealthy)), he is even worse than they guy who says you're taxes are going to raise (or we could pull a Lisa Simpson and call it a 'Temporary Refund Adjustment').

As for inflation (we can start calling it price gouging ) did you read that Conoco Oil's profits went up 89% this quarter, or that BP Amoco's went up nearly 50%. You and I weren't paying extra money because oil prices were soaring or because of the hurricanes. The proof is in the pudding. Also, I was never comparing us to other countries. I just said ours was bad.

we honestly have no right to be bitching about gas costs. if you go to europe you will be paying close to 6 bucks a gallon. and yes the oil companies did make a lot of money for blindly raising the price...but if your dumb enough to own a gas guzzler or hummer than you must pay the price. i drive my honda and try to limit my driving and refilling and i get by just fine.

[LeftWideOpen]

we honestly have no right to be bitching about gas costs. if you go to europe you will be paying close to 6 bucks a gallon. and yes the oil companies did make a lot of money for blindly raising the price...but if your dumb enough to own a gas guzzler or hummer than you must pay the price. i drive my honda and try to limit my driving and refilling and i get by just fine.

so we should cater our lives to big business?? I don't understand ...we're getting screwed, but we should just shut our mouths and deal with it is what it sounds like you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I don't even drive because I go to school in a big city with public transportation, but it still makes me upset to think what gas was a couple years ago and what it is now, and to know that it was avoidable.

[selftitled85]

so we should cater our lives to big business?? I don't understand ...we're getting screwed, but we should just shut our mouths and deal with it is what it sounds like you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I don't even drive because I go to school in a big city with public transportation, but it still makes me upset to think what gas was a couple years ago and what it is now, and to know that it was avoidable.


some of it is not the gas companies fault. if opec raises the amount of money per barrel plus limits how much we can buy. prices are obviously going to go up. if we put a limit on how much a gallon of gas would be then we would have gas shortages like the ones seen in the early 80s.

and this is what you get for living in a capitalistic society.

[MLLMillenium]

You also can't use other countries.. those countries have much larger pulic transportation systems, the gas prices and public systems are also government regulated. Unlike ours.

The elitist corporations run ours.

[splitsecond]

I too am a republican. Although.. I have been finding it harder and harder to remain one everyday... especially since I started taking political science.. I'm very rapidly becoming a democrat.
Watch out, Poly Sci profs are generally unabashedly liberal and love nothing more to push their viewpoints on people. I have a degree in the subject, and have seen it over and over.

[LeftWideOpen]

Watch out, Poly Sci profs are generally unabashedly liberal and love nothing more to push their viewpoints on people. I have a degree in the subject, and have seen it over and over.

doesnt that say something though? (that the majority of experts in the area of political science tend to be liberals). A politician and a political scientist are two completely different things, keep in mind.

I don't mean to attack everything a conservative stands for by that statement ..I'm just saying its an interesting point. The higher educated people become, the more democratic they tend to think. I even read a study from about a year ago illustrating that point, and remember hearing about another on the news that a conservative group funded that concluded "the specific majors of politcal science, sociology, and philosophy" are to blame for the "moral decay" of society. I'll try to find links to them both, but they've always stuck in my mind because they're pretty interesting to think/debate about.

[MLLMillenium]

Watch out, Poly Sci profs are generally unabashedly liberal and love nothing more to push their viewpoints on people. I have a degree in the subject, and have seen it over and over. Actually he is a Conservative Republican. He just has a crazy way of teaching, on the first day we had to write down what we were on our political stance, then for the rest of the year, he told us we had to do activities like debates and research/oppinion papers in the mind set of the other party.

The more I learn.. I just keep finding myself questioning everything.

[splitsecond]

doesnt that say something though? (that the majority of experts in the area of political science tend to be liberals). A politician and a political scientist are two completely different things, keep in mind.

I don't mean to attack everything a conservative stands for by that statement ..I'm just saying its an interesting point. The higher educated people become, the more democratic they tend to think. I even read a study from about a year ago illustrating that point, and remember hearing about another on the news that a conservative group funded that concluded "the specific majors of politcal science, sociology, and philosophy" are to blame for the "moral decay" of society. I'll try to find links to them both, but they've always stuck in my mind because they're pretty interesting to think/debate about.
It doesnt say a damn thing. Here is the deal: political scientists live in theory world, and not real world. They confine themselves to "educational institutions" and surround themselves with like-thinkers. The reason people become more leftist after becoming more "educated" is because they are, for the most part, only getting one viewpoint. Strangely enough, there are a few very conservative colleges, where the students are only given a conservative viewpoint, and the exact opposite results: the students become more "educated", and more conservative.

People are in large part a product of their environment, if you put them in an institution that is run 90% by liberal idealogues, what do you think the result will naturally be?

Actually he is a Conservative Republican. He just has a crazy way of teaching, on the first day we had to write down what we were on our political stance, then for the rest of the year, he told us we had to do activities like debates and research/oppinion papers in the mind set of the other party.

The more I learn.. I just keep finding myself questioning everything.
Well that is certainly a GOOD thing - to question. I know I became more moderate as I became more educated in some ways, but also became much more solid on some of my old viewpoints. The one thing I suggest, and very strongly suggest, is to never ever let one class or one person or one group's "facts" sway the way you think. Statistics are bigger liars than people.

[heyRomanticA__x]

They'd never win with Newt, you should know better! As for Watts that would be cool, although he'd have to be vice to a more well known name.

I wonder what Ted Rall would think of Watts running?..........maybe another four years of "house n****r" comments would finally show the African American community what the Democratic elites really think of them.....

Oh come on now! Of course we know that..or at least the ones who aren't busy smoking and having babies do. Personally, I'm not trying to seperate "my people" or anything here, but I really feel like we're the most politally lax group of people in the the United States. We like to complain when some one calls us a "n****r" but half of us can't even spell it. Hell, half the kids can't even read, but they sure can rap.

[Justin_stacy]

why couldn't you guys realize this 1 year ago?
well its not like you people helped much.......putting up a nominee like kerry against him, what were we supposed to do?

Oh come on now! Of course we know that..or at least the ones who aren't busy smoking and having babies do. Personally, I'm not trying to seperate "my people" or anything here, but I really feel like we're the most politally lax group of people on the the United States. We like to complain when some one calls us a "n****r" but half of us can't even spell it. Hell, half the kids can't even read, but they sure can rap.
as much as i'd love too......i'm not touching that at alll... :thumbsup: