Revolution

[micahistheballs]

I'm giving a speech on the possibility (or impossibility actually) of revolution in America like a full fledged overthrow or mass uprising and I was just wondering what you guys think about this. Is it even possible? What would inspire it? Etc. etc.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Not until Skynet goes online.

[Machu505]

Not anytime too soon.

[Simulcast]

Would not happen. I hope it never does. Major revolutions are usually accompanied by unspeakable amounts of violence and death.

[StillTrying1288]

Very very low probability.

[neo506]

glen beck seems to think it'll happen soon.


in all seriousness check out the latest issue of adbusters mag. it has a few articles on the subject as well as some quotes you may find useful

[mick_jagger]

"The movement is dead."
"Yes, of course! Hence the name: movement. It moves a certain distance, then it stops, you see. The revolution gets its name by always coming back around and in your face! You tried to kill me, you son of a bitch... so welcome to the revolution. There's more to follow, I'll stay in touch."

Topic just reminded me of that quote. It's from Under Siege in case you didn't know.

Anyways, with the recent change in presidency and the fact that there aren't enough white supremacist KKK members to actually start one, I would say no. That's as far as the change in presidency goes. As for the economy, still a no, because people need to give Obama some actual time to get things rolling. He's not just going to save the economy in his first year in office, or his first term even. I think the people will have enough trust and patience in the president to give him some breathing room and let him do his thing.

[Skadrist]

The people calling for a revolution now a reactionaries extraordinare. In my opinion violence will not come from groups but rather individuals; all it takes is one Timothy McViegh.

[Judge'sDaughter]

In the unlikely event of another revolution in the United States I think people wouldn't know what to do with themselves. We need a spark, something that a vast majority of people can connect to, but another thing that people connect to is fear- without a stable government, people become afraid.

All you need is to take out the element of fear.

[MyWorldEntire]

You say you want a revolution....

[Nevuk]

In the unlikely event of another revolution in the United States I think people wouldn't know what to do with themselves. We need a spark, something that a vast majority of people can connect to, but another thing that people connect to is fear- without a stable government, people become afraid.

All you need is to take out the element of fear.
There's also the inherent resistance to change within everyone. You drop someone in a utopia, they'll still bitch because they have nothing to bitch about. Or go crazy and get disillusioned.
Edit : Be sure to mention Vermont's secessionist movement (something like 10% of the population supports it. Weird stuff)

[BryterJonah]

You're all gonna have to wait til after I finish my schooling. Sorry ladies.

[BryterJonah]

And the only people looking for revolutions anymore are stubborn "anarchists" and resentful conservatives.

[open mind]

a untreatable, lethal, and highly contagious virus coupled with a string of natural disasters could probably start one.

[Simulcast]

And the only people looking for revolutions anymore are stubborn "anarchists" and resentful conservatives.


You know nothing of Conservatives nor conservatism if you believe that they are looking for a revolution. Read some Burke, my friend.

[BryterJonah]

You know nothing of Conservatives nor conservatism if you believe that they are looking for a revolution. Read some Burke, my friend.
I mean against the liberal. They're wish to take a piss because they fear the libs'll pwn their asses soon. a la glenn beck.

[Nevuk]

And the only people looking for revolutions anymore are stubborn "anarchists" and resentful conservatives.
Depends on how you define looking for. I might join a revolution, but I'm not self-grandiose enough to think anything I could come up with would be a positive change.
a untreatable, lethal, and highly contagious virus coupled with a string of natural disasters could probably start one.
Yeah. There's not going to be any sudden revolutions without either a natural disaster or some kind of terror attack. A gradual one is what most of the more realistic people would like.

[oldwirehands]

If there was one, it wouldn't start with violence but could easily escalate to the point. Regardless of how unlikely people think a revolution is, America is definitely heading towards an era of complete chaos.

[BryterJonah]

It would have to take possibly killing millions.

But in the end, we'd be saving billions.

[Nevuk]

It would have to take possibly killing millions.

But in the end, we'd be saving billions.
Someone read the watchman.

[BryterJonah]

http://edweb.sdsu.edu/courses/edtec670/edgames/uploaded_images/EndGame-763712.gif
Or this alternative

[tfar06]

its definitely possible. when martial law comes and the army is asking us all for our "mandatory volunteering" it might happen.

[screamoutmyname]

:shrug:

[SpacePunk]

I don't see a revolution, but I do see food riots happening in the next 2 years.

And the dollar will plummet.

Although the British MOD predicted last year that within 30 years: “The world’s middle classes might unite, using access to knowledge, resources and skills to shape transnational processes in their own class interest,” and that, “The middle classes could become a revolutionary class.”

[BryterJonah]

lulz


Go to college. Adopt. Die.

[Judge'sDaughter]

There's also the inherent resistance to change within everyone. You drop someone in a utopia, they'll still bitch because they have nothing to bitch about. Or go crazy and get disillusioned.
Edit : Be sure to mention Vermont's secessionist movement (something like 10% of the population supports it. Weird stuff)

I had no idea about that!I'll have to look it up...

I'm reading Persepolis (oh god, spelling?) and I think I'm coming to understand what it means to have a revolution now... I thought I understood the greatness and difficulty of it but now I don't know if I understand it. I hope that I will one day participate in one, but now is not the time for America, I think.

[bung]

You drop someone in a utopia, they'll still bitch because they have nothing to bitch about. Or go crazy and get disillusioned.

source besides brave new world?

[Nevuk]

source besides brave new world?
Utopia's don't exist, so we'd have to refer to thought experiments such as Brave new world (which was a dystopia). More likely would be the origin of utopia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_(book) ,and all the failed communes.
Then you can look at all the ideas for utopias, and the issues in them :
The classic ones, Plato's The Republic, Aristotle's Politics (i think it was the polity), Augustine's City of God. Examine the criticism of especially the first two, and you'll find the prevailing opinion is either that they are impossible to achiever or would not be utopias at all.

If we do want a utopia, we need to redefine what that means, realize that humans aren't really peaceful critters, and need conflict to thrive.

[BryterJonah]

ProJeWcQ4vg
I always believed that if absolutely everyone heard the last several minutes of this song at the same time,
there'd be everlasting peace.:bluesad:

[GuitarR0cker1]

I can never see a revolution happening in modern America, maybe in 50 years but we are too fragmented as a nation to have two coherent forces fighting against each other. The whole country would just split apart and we would have no rule of law in lots of areas.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Maybe as a result of scarcity. It's hard to fathom.

[.invisible ink.]

Utopia's don't exist, so we'd have to refer to thought experiments such as Brave new world (which was a dystopia). More likely would be the origin of utopia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_(book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_%28book)) ,and all the failed communes.
Then you can look at all the ideas for utopias, and the issues in them :
The classic ones, Plato's The Republic, Aristotle's Politics (i think it was the polity), Augustine's City of God. Examine the criticism of especially the first two, and you'll find the prevailing opinion is either that they are impossible to achiever or would not be utopias at all.

If we do want a utopia, we need to redefine what that means, realize that humans aren't really peaceful critters, and need conflict to thrive.

that's a rather negative way to look at things. True, most communes don't survive (due to lack of planning/resources mostly), but there are plenty of communes that have thrived for 30+ years - Twin Oaks (in Virginia), The Farm (in Tennessee), here's a whole site dedicated to ones that are currently in existence, many of which have existed for more than a few years: http://www.ic.org/ . Sure they're not "utopias" exactly - people still have to coexist with other humans which will always create some tension, but many have learned to exist outside the mainstream society for the most part with great success. I'm sorry, but I'm pretty passionate about this topic and have read and own approximately 80 books dealing with communes and communal living.

I agree with your second statement to a degree. I don't know if we need conflict to survive or whether it's just impossible to live as individuals with different ideas and moral fabrics without creating some conflict unintentionally. I believe that this world could be a LOT lot more peaceful and utopia-like but we'd first have to give up the greed and self-serving behaviors we're conditioned into holding in the first place.

Oh, and to go back to the original topic - i'm extremely cynical when it comes to the majority of the population at this point losing their apathy enough to create a revolution. We've been herded like sheep into jobs that take up all our time and energy, fed foods that drain us of our clarity and health, and then at the end of the day we're trained to use the television as a mind-numbing device - just as the Powers That Be want. An exhausted, broken down, unhealthy, mind-numbed society doesn't raise up and fight injustices.

[Love As Arson]

It is possible and necessary. The harsher these economic circumstances get, the conclusions people draw, particularly towards the system, will become more radical. A few months ago, workers in Chicago occupied their factory until they were given proper payment after having been fired. Apathy isn't in the air, anger and the desire for action is.

[more heart]

Wouldn't happen. We don't have groups in this country capable of such a thing.

[lfdfforever]

me and the revolution

[tfar06]

that's a rather negative way to look at things. True, most communes don't survive (due to lack of planning/resources mostly), but there are plenty of communes that have thrived for 30+ years - Twin Oaks (in Virginia), The Farm (in Tennessee), here's a whole site dedicated to ones that are currently in existence, many of which have existed for more than a few years: http://www.ic.org/ . Sure they're not "utopias" exactly - people still have to coexist with other humans which will always create some tension, but many have learned to exist outside the mainstream society for the most part with great success. I'm sorry, but I'm pretty passionate about this topic and have read and own approximately 80 books dealing with communes and communal living.

I agree with your second statement to a degree. I don't know if we need conflict to survive or whether it's just impossible to live as individuals with different ideas and moral fabrics without creating some conflict unintentionally. I believe that this world could be a LOT lot more peaceful and utopia-like but we'd first have to give up the greed and self-serving behaviors we're conditioned into holding in the first place.

Oh, and to go back to the original topic - i'm extremely cynical when it comes to the majority of the population at this point losing their apathy enough to create a revolution. We've been herded like sheep into jobs that take up all our time and energy, fed foods that drain us of our clarity and health, and then at the end of the day we're trained to use the television as a mind-numbing device - just as the Powers That Be want. An exhausted, broken down, unhealthy, mind-numbed society doesn't raise up and fight injustices.

what do you eat then?

[Nevuk]

that's a rather negative way to look at things. True, most communes don't survive (due to lack of planning/resources mostly), but there are plenty of communes that have thrived for 30+ years - Twin Oaks (in Virginia), The Farm (in Tennessee), here's a whole site dedicated to ones that are currently in existence, many of which have existed for more than a few years: http://www.ic.org/ . Sure they're not "utopias" exactly - people still have to coexist with other humans which will always create some tension, but many have learned to exist outside the mainstream society for the most part with great success. I'm sorry, but I'm pretty passionate about this topic and have read and own approximately 80 books dealing with communes and communal living.

You are correct about the communes, I knew that there were some successful ones, however they are few in number. (There are some anarchist ones scattered around Europe too, iirc). I'm not trying to suggest that communes cannot exist successfully, just that an examination of failed ones is an interesting way of examining some of the dilemmas inherent within a utopic civilization.


I agree with your second statement to a degree. I don't know if we need conflict to survive or whether it's just impossible to live as individuals with different ideas and moral fabrics without creating some conflict unintentionally. I believe that this world could be a LOT lot more peaceful and utopia-like but we'd first have to give up the greed and self-serving behaviors we're conditioned into holding in the first place.
Somewhat my opinion, violence is the only quality of humanity I would be willing to argue as inherent, however, even I will admit that it is impossible to know. Kind of, just because every civilization has been violent does not mean that a civilization without violence is impossible. (I honestly would not want to live in a peaceful utopia though, because I'm far too... twitchy, I guess would be the correct adjective).

Oh, and to go back to the original topic - i'm extremely cynical when it comes to the majority of the population at this point losing their apathy enough to create a revolution. We've been herded like sheep into jobs that take up all our time and energy, fed foods that drain us of our clarity and health, and then at the end of the day we're trained to use the television as a mind-numbing device - just as the Powers That Be want. An exhausted, broken down, unhealthy, mind-numbed society doesn't raise up and fight injustices.
Your point reminds me of Horkheimer and Adorno's piece The Culture Industry : Enlightenment as Mass Deception: http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htm
where they argue that in a capitalist society, entertainment has become a replication of work, a way to dull our minds further.
It is possible and necessary. The harsher these economic circumstances get, the conclusions people draw, particularly towards the system, will become more radical. A few months ago, workers in Chicago occupied their factory until they were given proper payment after having been fired. Apathy isn't in the air, anger and the desire for action is.
If a revolution does happen, it will have to be in a period of economic depression so severe as to incontrovertibly prove capitalism to have failed. I could see the economy reaching that level, possibly, but it seems unlikely, thus why I reserve my opinion to thinking sudden revolutions unlikely.

[Nevuk]

what do you eat then?
She's not wrong, although I'm not sure if it's an intended effect, but it's definitely a side effect of the current capitalistic system. High Fructose corn syrup, etc. A lot of our food is highly addictive, alcohol destroys brain cells, caffeine makes you sluggish, etc. What to eat instead is sort of a who knows, but there are much more healthy diets out there (and I don't mean just vegan or vegetarian, although those are certainly some of them). I eat fairly unhealthily though.
One second, a comment on one of my professor's blogs actually highlights this much more effectively than I am capable of. Some background, the fifth congressional district of Kentucky (where I live 8 or 9 months of the year) has the lowest life expectancy of the US, with one of the highest poverty levels. It's just ... Appalachia.

It's true. I am a resident of the
5th district and the lives of people here are drained. We are tired. Coal has been the center of our economy here to the exclusion of everything else. We have been conditioned to accept low expectations from each other and from society as a whole. Moutaintop removal scars the landscape and wreaks havoc on the local environment. Without trees and forests, rain runs freely and unimpeded causing floods in places where no floods ocurred before. It is a deadening environment. The older people here become, the less likely one can determine what age group one is looking upon.
You said, "Even people in their 20's can have a broken down look that makes you wonder if they're in their forties or fifties." Followed by this, "Likewise, Mrs. RSI and I have met women in their early forties who see themselves as more elderly than my 73 year old mother and dress accordingly." I am 39 years old and though I have done little with my life I am drained, resigned, 100 LBS overweight with nothing to which I can look forward. I imagine I have taken on that "old-before-his-time" appearance. My demeanor, so I am told, is that of resignation. I imagine the same holds true for my fellow eastern kentuckians. They DO look old. Our lifestyles are very sedentary. Most of us sit, for hours and hours. We get up in the morning, we take our showers, dress, sit down in front of a TV or a computer monitor, we eat, we take the myriad prescriptions for madadies contracted far too early in life due to too much fatty, carb-loaded fast food or "home-cooking" which though delicious, is dead;y if one makes of it a steady diet. Some work, many do not. Days are spent either at some dead-end job, or no job at all. People eat, watch television, surf the internet, sleep too much and it shows on our bodies and in our trivial conversation. Our minds become deadened. We lose our curiosity to the din of "Wife-Swap" and other "reality" TV, and whatever we can find on the 'net to kill time.
You quoted the Lexington Herald Leader thus: "...Sen. Mitch McConnell and Rep. Hal Rogers bear considerable responsibility for the pervasive poverty that results in low life expectancies." You said, "As Republicans, McConnell and Rogers are attached to the small government perspective that results in fewer federal programs and less federal money coming into the region. There isn't that much private investment in the region. So, the lack of federal money really hurts." How true. We are not a priority and we know that. Knowing that and knowing that things will remain so creates resignation in our attitude toward life. We move like elderly people when we are only in our thirties, fourties, or fifties. We walk slowly, kind of shuffling along. Even our speech patterns are affected. We don't project our voices. We mumble in a slow nasally way which betrays our utter sense of resignation that we are as good as we'll ever be. The worst part; we're okay with that. We take on a broken down physical appearance because psychologically, we've been broken down day-by-day; month-by-month; year by year since our peak, usually high school. We might be sad but for the most part we are past feeling. Either comfortably numb, or just numb, we look forward to nothing because we know that nothing is on the horizion but more of the same.
So yes, we need and influx of federal dollars here to boost the economy and with any luck in the process perhaps give us a good jolt out of our zombie-like existence. It's worth a try.
Good call Ric.
from http://red-state.blogspot.com/2009/01/bad-to-be-on-bottom.html

[.invisible ink.]

what do you eat then?

I travel for a living so what I prefer to eat and what I can eat are often not one and the same since sometimes I'm rather limited in my options, but generally, my food philosophy is - eat what's real. What I mean by that is, I don't eat much, if any, processed foods. I stay away from refined sugars, white carbs (i.e., bread, rice, french fries), and (this is where I have the hardest time on the road) I prefer eating organic/naturally raised foods. I eat more vegetables than most people I know and don't eat fast food except for under the worst of circumstances (as in, it's the only option in a podunk airport and I haven't eaten in hours and won't get a chance to eat for hours longer). When I'm at home, I cook all my meals from scratch. I don't buy bread or cookies or whatever sugary/carby substance that might be tempting to eat, but, if I feel like it and have time, I'll bake from ingredients I purchased (so I have more control over what's in it) and then have maybe 1 cookie and give the rest away. I probably sound like I eat really boring stuff and that I think too much about this stuff, but I don't, it's something that I've always taken a great interest in and I think it ties in completely with my philosophy on life and the way we live it. I'm not really that strict about anything except for it being real and not loaded with sugar. I think we can blame a lot of the problems in society on the introduction of refined sugar and corn syrup (not to mention the proliferation of garbage like McDonalds and other fast food restaurants that have taken over the world for monetary gain at the expense of health) and I'm honestly livid with the way this government has manipulated the food supply and the nutritional requirements to benefit the lobbyists. It's gone way too far and it's only recently coming back around to people realizing that ingesting unknown quantities of pesticides and manipulated fat molecules might not be so good for us. Anyway, I'll step off my soapbox momentarily but I will add one thing more on this subject - if you try eliminating the refined sugars and processed foods from your diet for 1 week, I can bet you'll notice a difference in clarity and energy levels. If you compare the amount of sugar in our diet to the amount of sugar in the diet of people in the 1800s, we're consuming on average 150 lbs of sugar a year - in the 1800s they consumed about 10 lbs per year. Think about it.



Your point reminds me of Horkheimer and Adorno's piece The Culture Industry : Enlightenment as Mass Deception: http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htm
where they argue that in a capitalist society, entertainment has become a replication of work, a way to dull our minds further.

If a revolution does happen, it will have to be in a period of economic depression so severe as to incontrovertibly prove capitalism to have failed. I could see the economy reaching that level, possibly, but it seems unlikely, thus why I reserve my opinion to thinking sudden revolutions unlikely.

She's not wrong, although I'm not sure if it's an intended effect, but it's definitely a side effect of the current capitalistic system. High Fructose corn syrup, etc. A lot of our food is highly addictive, alcohol destroys brain cells, caffeine makes you sluggish, etc. What to eat instead is sort of a who knows, but there are much more healthy diets out there (and I don't mean just vegan or vegetarian, although those are certainly some of them). I eat fairly unhealthily though.
One second, a comment on one of my professor's blogs actually highlights this much more effectively than I am capable of. Some background, the fifth congressional district of Kentucky (where I live 8 or 9 months of the year) has the lowest life expectancy of the US, with one of the highest poverty levels. It's just ... Appalachia.


from http://red-state.blogspot.com/2009/01/bad-to-be-on-bottom.html

Nevuk, you made some excellent points which I'm a bit too tired to attempt to cover in depth right now (sorry, shitty excuse but I worked 11 hours straight today), but I'm definitely going to check out your links too. Oh and btw, for the sake of full disclosure - I was vegetarian for 8 years and vegan for 3, I did it for animal rights reasons but I stopped it for health reasons. I feel much much healthier now that I'm consuming animal proteins again. I'm sure vegetarianism/veganism works great for some people, but I think it's easy to get too many carbs doing it and it takes a lot of discipline to eat those diets in a balanced way.

If you're interested in a really good book (and super quick read) about the manipulation of the food supply and food pyramid, I'd suggest picking up a book by Michael Pollan called "In Defense of Food" http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-Eaters-Manifesto/dp/0143114964/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237943681&sr=8-1 also, there's a great documentary called "Sweet Misery" about the FDA bullshit with how aspartame became legal (when it should never have been in the first place) http://www.amazon.com/Sweet-Misery-Poisoned-Cori-Brackett/dp/B000BQ5IWS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1237943767&sr=8-1 Thanks government for poisoning us daily!

I hope there's a revolution, but my cynicism completely gets the best of me. I can't stand a good portion of the population and doubt they'd be willing to put down their beer and stop watching football long enough to participate or even know what the hell it's about, but again, that goes back to our inbred apathy.

[ssion1984]

I believe in individual revolution. Forming groups is okay, but hey, I don't even agree with my closest friends [well, that could be because they are conservatives but whatever.]
A full-scale effective revolution won't be able to happen.... unless not only there is a mass uprising of people, the complete failure of all money and labor, a few natural disasters at once, and maybe a few more terrorist attacks. I'm joking here, but seriously, as some sort of anarchist [not sure about these labels] I more or less disagree with capitalism, I hate wage-slavery, and I despise poverty. Maybe a different revolution will happen. Perhaps the general financial power of America will go into decline [as it is semi-buahaha] but also countries that are considered Third World will be able to change because the strain of imperialism will have lessened? Not that I want dictators to have equal power as a wounded republic, but having the right to vote is still better than living in a war zone where children are forced to kill, etc.
Wow. I go on a lot of tangents. This is what happens when listening to Shellac and working on my Russian history homework between postings.

[tfar06]

[quote=.invisible ink.;39413252]I travel for a living so what I prefer to eat and what I can eat are often not one and the same since sometimes I'm rather limited in my options, but generally, my food philosophy is - eat what's real. What I mean by that is, I don't eat much, if any, processed foods. I stay away from refined sugars, white carbs (i.e., bread, rice, french fries), and (this is where I have the hardest time on the road) I prefer eating organic/naturally raised foods. I eat more vegetables than most people I know and don't eat fast food except for under the worst of circumstances (as in, it's the only option in a podunk airport and I haven't eaten in hours and won't get a chance to eat for hours longer). When I'm at home, I cook all my meals from scratch. I don't buy bread or cookies or whatever sugary/carby substance that might be tempting to eat, but, if I feel like it and have time, I'll bake from ingredients I purchased (so I have more control over what's in it) and then have maybe 1 cookie and give the rest away. I probably sound like I eat really boring stuff and that I think too much about this stuff, but I don't, it's something that I've always taken a great interest in and I think it ties in completely with my philosophy on life and the way we live it. I'm not really that strict about anything except for it being real and not loaded with sugar. I think we can blame a lot of the problems in society on the introduction of refined sugar and corn syrup (not to mention the proliferation of garbage like McDonalds and other fast food restaurants that have taken over the world for monetary gain at the expense of health) and I'm honestly livid with the way this government has manipulated the food supply and the nutritional requirements to benefit the lobbyists. It's gone way too far and it's only recently coming back around to people realizing that ingesting unknown quantities of pesticides and manipulated fat molecules might not be so good for us. Anyway, I'll step off my soapbox momentarily but I will add one thing more on this subject - if you try eliminating the refined sugars and processed foods from your diet for 1 week, I can bet you'll notice a difference in clarity and energy levels. If you compare the amount of sugar in our diet to the amount of sugar in the diet of people in the 1800s, we're consuming on average 150 lbs of sugar a year - in the 1800s they consumed about 10 lbs per year. Think about it.




thanks for expanding for me. my quote wasnt meant to be prickish, i was just being inquisitive

[TheZeroKid]

The constitution says that if the government fails to act for the people them we, as the people, have the right to overthrow the government. It ain't gonna happen without a fight, however, from those in power. You can cite constitutional right all you want, a peaceful revoltuion in this country is out of the question.

[Jefferson Rank]

Technically it's a constitutional right, but the government will also slap you down if you try it. You'd have to have a huge support to get it to work. Plus, it's unlikely that anybody could create a stable government from the resulting chaos. At the very least, we'd be at civil war/minor in-fighting for a while afterwards. Plus the government kinda has an army.

If you don't like your government enough to revolt, I advise moving. It's easier and more peaceful. You're a lot less likely to get shot in the head or locked in a cell if you just move to a country that has a better government. Me, I'm fine right here. The government doesn't take care of all my needs, but they have bigger problems. I can take care of myself, and what I can't take care of (such as hostile invasion) the government handles. It's a nice system.

[Everiggs]

Not going to happen for awhile...There isn't one definive issue that most people can agree upon.

[Love As Arson]

I keep thinking of the Greece riots and a singular event which set off the turmoil and anger that was building beneath the surface.

[.invisible ink.]

thanks for expanding for me. my quote wasnt meant to be prickish, i was just being inquisitive

no problem, i didn't take you as being prickish, in fact, it's a question i'm (obviously) more than happy to discuss it and i think there could be a lot of really great discussion on just how fucked up the nutrition in this country is (due to political influence, especially) within the Politics forum if more people were interested instead of thread-jacking this, lol.

[tfar06]

no problem, i didn't take you as being prickish, in fact, it's a question i'm (obviously) more than happy to discuss it and i think there could be a lot of really great discussion on just how fucked up the nutrition in this country is (due to political influence, especially) within the Politics forum if more people were interested instead of thread-jacking this, lol.
make a thread, ill definitely read it. ive been trying to eat healthier for a while now. i cut out pop (soda), fast food and a lot of fried foods. even though i agree with vegetarianism i really cant give it up, i love chicken!

[ssion1984]

I keep thinking of the Greece riots and a singular event which set off the turmoil and anger that was building beneath the surface.

Yeah. All you need for a war or that level of discord is one little pretext. But Greece isn't exactly like America, so I'm not sure if that will come to fruition within this country. There is so much apathy that I think it overpowers the anger. Outside and in isololated instances though, there is hope and that maybe can eventually translate.

[Nevuk]

I honestly think Apathy is a myth. Not voting is frequently a vote against the system, and most political people don't realize that.

The only times apathy can exist within our current culture is for the people who honestly just forget to go to vote on election day, but were actually intending to.

[.invisible ink.]

I honestly think Apathy is a myth. Not voting is frequently a vote against the system, and most political people don't realize that.

The only times apathy can exist within our current culture is for the people who honestly just forget to go to vote on election day, but were actually intending to.

So are you saying that you do not believe that laziness and indifference can build over time? I think "forgetting" to go vote on election day is probably in the minority of reasons people don't bother to vote in the first place.

Haven't you ever heard people say "eh, I don't like politics. I don't really care because it doesn't affect me."? I can't be the only one who has encountered fools like this. Where does a statement like this stem if not from apathy and ignorance?

[Nevuk]

So are you saying that you do not believe that laziness and indifference can build over time? I think "forgetting" to go vote on election day is probably in the minority of reasons people don't bother to vote in the first place.

Haven't you ever heard people say "eh, I don't like politics. I don't really care because it doesn't affect me."? I can't be the only one who has encountered fools like this. Where does a statement like this stem if not from apathy and ignorance?
Saying that politics does not affect you can be restated as thinking that your vote has no effect, and will never have an effect, so why do it? That's an indictment of the political system's inability to provide a voice. Everyone has an opinion, even if it is that they are not afforded any opportunities to express it. That's not particularly apathy, it's more cynicism.

True political apathy would be a person who truly does not care what happens to them. I've never, ever met someone like this.

[ssion1984]

I'm sure there might be one of two competletey apathetic people - but probably for a good reason, such as depression. But many people have a good element of apathy built up within them [because that is the message that society sends as "cool"]. It isn't until a catastrophic event that people wake up and decided they should care. For example, 9/11 - all of a sudden people began flying around American flags. Definite correlation. Sort of like the green "let's save the earth" fad. My point: native people for thousands of years have practiced lifestyles that respect the earth and and those who prefer an agrarian society over an industrial one also see the value of the earth in which we live on. But for many people, it wasn't until all this scare about global warming and "high" oil prices that coerced people into things such as recycling, reusing, reducing, etc. [all great things.] The point is, people need to take initiative of situations instead of waiting for someone else. Now recycling is completely different from the idea of an violent [etc] revolution, but I'm sure there are a few similiarities.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I honestly think Apathy is a myth. Not voting is frequently a vote against the system, and most political people don't realize that.

The only times apathy can exist within our current culture is for the people who honestly just forget to go to vote on election day, but were actually intending to.
A vote against the system in America is still very similar to apathy. How many people do you honestly think don't vote because they dislike the whole American democratic process?

[Nevuk]

A vote against the system in America is still very similar to apathy. How many people do you honestly think don't vote because they dislike the whole American democratic process?
Lots. Come on, if a person's vote changed everything to exactly how they wanted it to be, would anyone turn that down?

[Jefferson Rank]

Lots. Come on, if a person's vote changed everything to exactly how they wanted it to be, would anyone turn that down?

But the actual voters know better then to expect that, but they still vote.

[4N6 science]

A revolution will probably never happen again in this country. People just don't care and those who do care passionately enough are so outnumbered they don't have the capacity to make an effective revolution. Everything will right itself again. It will just take time and massive overhaul of a completely broke system. I think people are starting to get to the point where they are fed up with the greed and corruption that is rampant in our economic system. Even if there was a revolution what would be the end point goal and what would be done to make America better?