Good going, California.

[Dan Hollister]

... and all the measures lost. I've officially lost hope in California voters to use common sense.

73 was a terrible prop, but 74, 75, 76, and 77 were just no-brainers. Epecially 74 and 75. They were common sense. The problem was that the unions were flat-out lying in their commercials. And outspent Arnold 2 to 1.

Things I heard that just make me feel sad...

"If I vote Yes, my firefighter neighbor will lose his job!"
"Arnold hates nurses, teachers, and firefighters."
"You're not the governor you said you'd be."

And, the most heard lie ever told in this whole ordeal...

"Arnold stole $2 billion from the education budget!" Yeah, too bad that never happened.

Good going, California. You've proven that you a) are incompetant, and b) can't see through lies.

I guess the world really is nothing but a big marketing campaign.

[I am all talk]

I guess the world really is nothing but a big marketing campaign.

you're right, if it weren't for Hollywood we would never have had this shitty governor in the first place.

Feel free to move out.

[getupkid53]

:ot: but... unions suck. I work at a company where the union lambasted them in the paper with lies and other BS and said the only way they'd stop is if we went union. We were losing potential employees left and right and our retention rate was in the toilet. We caved, but had a vote. They propositioned employees with lies, saying they would get a dollar an hour raise and better health care. We were locked in contracts with our health care provider and with our clients, they couldn't change anything. They didn't even get employees a large enough raise to cover their union dues. Now they make less money... But hey, they can screw up all they want and we can never fire them now. Unions are completely useless now. They were built up because employees were underpaid and steel mills and other physical labor jobs were exploiting child labor. In the present day, we have laws to protect these types of travesties from happening. We still have union's though.
What do they do now? Fight for wage increases for greedy airline mechanics who were asked to take a 10,000 dollar a year paycut (from an average 75,000 dollar) job so their company wouldn't sink (im not siding with CEO's here either though). Regardless, NWA employees went on strike and now all of them have permanently lost their jobs. and these jerks (the mechanics) are picketing (and threatening)the replacements and those who went back to work trying to feed their families. Unions bring nothing good... usually.

[yeat182]

this is the same state that wants to give illegal immigrants drivers licenses, what did you expect?

[Kram41]

You've proven that you a) are incompetant


The irony train strikes again.

[Paul Tao]

... and all the measures lost. I've officially lost hope in California voters to use common sense.

73 was a terrible prop, but 74, 75, 76, and 77 were just no-brainers. Epecially 74 and 75. They were common sense. The problem was that the unions were flat-out lying in their commercials. And outspent Arnold 2 to 1.

Things I heard that just make me feel sad...

"If I vote Yes, my firefighter neighbor will lose his job!"
"Arnold hates nurses, teachers, and firefighters."
"You're not the governor you said you'd be."

And, the most heard lie ever told in this whole ordeal...

"Arnold stole $2 billion from the education budget!" Yeah, too bad that never happened.

Good going, California. You've proven that you a) are incompetant, and b) can't see through lies.

I guess the world really is nothing but a big marketing campaign.
I could say the same about the election last year.


What do they do now? Fight for wage increases for greedy airline mechanics who were asked to take a 10,000 dollar a year paycut (from an average 75,000 dollar) job so their company wouldn't sink (im not siding with CEO's here either though). Regardless, NWA employees went on strike and now all of them have permanently lost their jobs. and these jerks (the mechanics) are picketing (and threatening)the replacements and those who went back to work trying to feed their families. Unions bring nothing good... usually.

Neither side in the NWA fight were completely right, but don't put the majority of blame on the mechanics. My uncle has been a mechanic for NWA for almost 40 years and some of the shit the company was pulling was the most retarded the mechanics have seen in a long time.

[Jason Tate]

I was finally proud to live in Cali yesterday.

[getupkid53]

I put it on the union mostly, but the employees have to take a hit for following those dumbasses right off the cliff. Northwest put a decent deal on the table and the union shot it down without a vote. A month later, the info became public and the mechanics were pissed because, if put to an up or down vote, it most likely would have passed. I live right by the airport and have to deal with these whiny mechanics crap all the time. I'm not saying you're uncle is one of them. I watched a report on how the harley store would take a big hit because most of the mechanics own bikes. Anyone who can afford a 20,000 dollar leisure vehicle can take a cut. I do think management should have stepped up and stated (and actually should have) taken a cut also, to show comradary. But we all know big businessman are jerks and would run over their own mother for a few bucks. These mechanics were not hurting by any means and would still have been in a better situation than over 70% of americans after the cut.

In the end, everyone was greedy and now these mechanics will be lucky to find a job that will pay them 50,000 dollars a year. Did you know NWA mechanics made 25% more on average than other airline mechanics, they were already overpaid and still would have been after their cut.

[Dan Hollister]

I was finally proud to live in Cali yesterday.

Why is that?

[Just Decent]

the governator turns out to be *shock*gasp* less successful than his terminator movies!!!!

[oeness]

Feel free to move out.

I agree

[justinevans]

I cannot wait until California disconnects from the Union. I will freeze myself before my death just to see it happen.

[lightcollapse]

I was finally proud to live in Cali yesterday.

concurred.

[lightcollapse]

I cannot wait until California disconnects from the Union. I will freeze myself before my death just to see it happen.

okay, you can go back to your state, shitty weather boy.

[quiksilver21k]

it doesnt matter what the governator does...California is still the greatest place to live and I absolutely would not want to live anywhere else. Although I am pretty lucky being 20 min away from Hollywood, 10 min from the beach, and 0 min away from the safest city in the United States.

[lightcollapse]

it doesnt matter what the governator does...California is still the greatest place to live and I absolutely would not want to live anywhere else. Although I am pretty lucky being 20 min away from Hollywood, 10 min from the beach, and 0 min away from the safest city in the United States.

owned, i'm 5 minutes away from the beach.

[Dan Hollister]

Here's my question to you guys.

When California goes near-bankruptcy again next year, who is everyone going to blame? My guess is that Arnold will take the blame. Even though he was elected to fix it, and proposed his method of doing so, and everyone shot him down.

So if these things don't change, will Arnold take the brunt for what our voters did?

Gray Davis is building a house for you. He has no skill, and his tools are all worn-down, old, and don't get the job done. So you fire him and hire Arnold to do it. Arnold is a great housebuilder, but he still can't do it with Gray's broken tools. So now that you've hired him, he tells you he needs to leave to go get tools to do it. And you tell him, no, I hired you to do a better job than Gray did, and I expect you to do it, with or without tools!

Why does that make sense?

And to whoever lives in Thousand Oaks... you're very close to me... however the whole point is that you can't take a place for granted. California may in fact be the nicest place to live, but it isn't going to stay that way forever if we keep getting more and more bankrupt, our education systems keeps getting worse, etc. Don't think for a second that these politics don't actually affect your fancy way of life.

[splitsecond]

I was finally proud to live in Cali yesterday.

Why, because the people endorsed continued reckless spending, a continued welfare state, and pandering to socialist organizations?

[splitsecond]

Here's my question to you guys.

When California goes near-bankruptcy again next year, who is everyone going to blame? My guess is that Arnold will take the blame. Even though he was elected to fix it, and proposed his method of doing so, and everyone shot him down.

So if these things don't change, will Arnold take the brunt for what our voters did?

Gray Davis is building a house for you. He has no skill, and his tools are all worn-down, old, and don't get the job done. So you fire him and hire Arnold to do it. Arnold is a great housebuilder, but he still can't do it with Gray's broken tools. So now that you've hired him, he tells you he needs to leave to go get tools to do it. And you tell him, no, I hired you to do a better job than Gray did, and I expect you to do it, with or without tools!

Why does that make sense?

And to whoever lives in Thousand Oaks... you're very close to me... however the whole point is that you can't take a place for granted. California may in fact be the nicest place to live, but it isn't going to stay that way forever if we keep getting more and more bankrupt, our education systems keeps getting worse, etc. Don't think for a second that these politics don't actually affect your fancy way of life.

Very well said. But it shows exactly why the people shouldnt have this much control over spending issues. The California referendum system has fuck the state up royally. I am not sure they will let ANYONE fix it though. I am glad my parents left that place before it turned to complete shit.

[oeness]

Here's my question to you guys.

When California goes near-bankruptcy again next year, who is everyone going to blame? My guess is that Arnold will take the blame. Even though he was elected to fix it, and proposed his method of doing so, and everyone shot him down.

So if these things don't change, will Arnold take the brunt for what our voters did?

Gray Davis is building a house for you. He has no skill, and his tools are all worn-down, old, and don't get the job done. So you fire him and hire Arnold to do it. Arnold is a great housebuilder, but he still can't do it with Gray's broken tools. So now that you've hired him, he tells you he needs to leave to go get tools to do it. And you tell him, no, I hired you to do a better job than Gray did, and I expect you to do it, with or without tools!

Why does that make sense?

And to whoever lives in Thousand Oaks... you're very close to me... however the whole point is that you can't take a place for granted. California may in fact be the nicest place to live, but it isn't going to stay that way forever if we keep getting more and more bankrupt, our education systems keeps getting worse, etc. Don't think for a second that these politics don't actually affect your fancy way of life.

Do you really not have a job?

[Dan Hollister]

Do you really not have a job?

I don't understand your question or your point. Yes, I work. Your point?

[youcomebeforeyo]

Very well said. But it shows exactly why the people shouldnt have this much control over spending issues. The California referendum system has fuck the state up royally. I am not sure they will let ANYONE fix it though. I am glad my parents left that place before it turned to complete shit.

That said you live Democracy. And the people choose, and when people choose other people disagree. If this ends up rooting Californians up the ass then that's their own decision. Democracy gives people the right to make stupid decisions.

[splitsecond]

That said you live Democracy. And the people choose, and when people choose other people disagree. If this ends up rooting Californians up the ass then that's their own decision. Democracy gives people the right to make stupid decisions.

We actually live somewhere between a Democracy and a Republic. When it is carefully balanced between the two we do pretty well, but when it goes too far one way (people excercising TOO much control, or leaders excercising TOO much control) shit gets out of hand.

California is clearly an example of where the 10,000 muggers in the streets have driven the state into deep trouble. (Better know your history for the meaning behind that one).

[youcomebeforeyo]

I don't live in the United States so I don't. Care to explain?

This computer is from 97 so wikipediaing it is pretty much impossible.

[oeness]

I don't understand your question or your point. Yes, I work. Your point?
No I was just wondering because in your profile you said you don't have a real job. I was just going to say that the high unemployment rate in california is one of the main reasons we are in debt. But since you do have a real job disregard my post.

[Dan Hollister]

I generally tout that I don't have a "real job" because I run my own production company, which tends to throw people off.

High unemployment is caused by 2 things. Lack of jobs, and lack of existing people to fill those jobs.

1) Lack of jobs.

Companies don't like working in California. It costs too damn much, there's so many provisions, and the union leaders (the same ones who fought Arnold in this campaign) fight them tooth and nail. So they leave. Nissan, for instance, is leaving California for Tennessee. Most of the employees are NOT moving with them. As much as people hate companies, the fact is that they're paying your bills. If you don't make the company happy, they are going to leave. Many, many companies have been leaving because of how ridiculous some of the politics here are.

2) Lack of qualified people to fill existing jobs.

With our terrible education system, what does anyone expect? We don't need janitors and housecleaners, we need engineers, scientists, doctors, and MBA's. When people choose to not get an education, they choose to lower their chances of getting a job.

We need better education. Plain and simple. It does not matter if the teacher union (keep in mind the union actually doesn't usually represent the thoughts of the teachers) does not like it. That people think it's more just to give teachers their tenure. The problem is not the adults of today, its the kids of today.

That's how the economy works. You don't make jobs to suit people, you hire people that fit what the company needs. There's tens of thousands of job openings in California right now. Most of them just require you to, say, be smart and have an education.

[lightcollapse]

I generally tout that I don't have a "real job" because I run my own production company, which tends to throw people off.

High unemployment is caused by 2 things. Lack of jobs, and lack of existing people to fill those jobs.

1) Lack of jobs.

Companies don't like working in California. It costs too damn much, there's so many provisions, and the union leaders (the same ones who fought Arnold in this campaign) fight them tooth and nail. So they leave. Nissan, for instance, is leaving California for Tennessee. Most of the employees are NOT moving with them. As much as people hate companies, the fact is that they're paying your bills. If you don't make the company happy, they are going to leave. Many, many companies have been leaving because of how ridiculous some of the politics here are.

2) Lack of qualified people to fill existing jobs.

With our terrible education system, what does anyone expect? We don't need janitors and housecleaners, we need engineers, scientists, doctors, and MBA's. When people choose to not get an education, they choose to lower their chances of getting a job.

We need better education. Plain and simple. It does not matter if the teacher union (keep in mind the union actually doesn't usually represent the thoughts of the teachers) does not like it. That people think it's more just to give teachers their tenure. The problem is not the adults of today, its the kids of today.

That's how the economy works. You don't make jobs to suit people, you hire people that fit what the company needs. There's tens of thousands of job openings in California right now. Most of them just require you to, say, be smart and have an education.

most people who are unemployed don't have a job because they're lazy.

i say most because there are some people in the situation where they're just fucked over.

[ActorInThisPlay]

most people who are unemployed don't have a job because they're lazy.

i say most because there are some people in the situation where they're just fucked over.
it's because people abuse welfare...since when is it a good thing to reward people for not having a job?

[save_me]

i have a friend that lives in Corona...im not sure if any of you know where that is, but hes a SICK guitar player...hes in a band called Whitney's Addiction.

[lightcollapse]

i have a friend that lives in Corona...im not sure if any of you know where that is, but hes a SICK guitar player...hes in a band called Whitney's Addiction.

no WAY.

[idowhatiamtold]

there is too much bs coarsing through their veins out there.