Songwriting: The Debate

[SeeYouSeptember]

Instrument or lyrics first and why?

I pick lyrics because I like to focus on good lyrics before I write music that goes with it.

[OveriseFan]

Whatever works. Depends on a lot of variables.

I find that, especially when you're young (I did the same thing), you choose lyrics first, and your music really suffers because of it. Kids don't learn how to write a good melody.

I recommend writing melody first, then write the words to it, or write the melody with the words, then write the accompaniment.

[TheSkyline]

Whatever works. Depends on a lot of variables.

I find that, especially when you're young (I did the same thing), you choose lyrics first, and your music really suffers because of it. Kids don't learn how to write a good melody.

I recommend writing melody first, then write the words to it, or write the melody with the words, then write the accompaniment.

I agree with this. I used to write the words first but it limited by ability to come up with cool, creative guitar riffs for it. I now start with a melody in my head, make a guitar riff for it, and then do lyrics last. If there's where the lyrics go that doesn't fit the original riff then I'll compromise so nothing is drastically changed. My recent results have been pretty good, so I'm probably sticking to this kind of writing for a while.

[Burn That Shit]

When me and my friends write(hesitant to use the word "band") it's almost always instrumentals first and then once that's finished we'll sit down and work on cool lyrics, go back to the song and rework it a tad to fit the lyrics or any other necessary changes.

[ACA]

I use dummy lyrics when writing songs.

They're always the same basic shit.

If you try to write them simultaneously, you'll spin your wheels.

-ACA

[SeeYouSeptember]

Whatever works. Depends on a lot of variables.

I find that, especially when you're young (I did the same thing), you choose lyrics first, and your music really suffers because of it. Kids don't learn how to write a good melody.

I recommend writing melody first, then write the words to it, or write the melody with the words, then write the accompaniment.

I usually start out with the idea of a melody but I never write it, only occasionally hum it. Then I write lyrics to it hoping it would work and after than I write the instruments.

[MrFyner]

i usually have to get inspired somehow, and both parts come to me. I think more music first then lyrics. But they don't seem to far apart.

[OveriseFan]

I use dummy lyrics when writing songs.

They're always the same basic shit.

If you try to write them simultaneously, you'll spin your wheels.

-ACA

Oh yeah, that's what I meant by them coming together. Haha. I would never mean that FINAL lyrics came at the same time. As you said, you'll go crazy if you try.

I really think there's a "songwriter language" that involves some English words, combined with some half-English words that are only used when writing a song. Haha. I typically record myself to tape when I'm just adlibbing melodies (with the "dummy lyrics" you mentioned) and half the time they don't even make sense, or only half a word comes out and the other half is replaced with "la" or "da".

[lew_1987]

Either. Most of the time the lyrics or music sets the tone for the other element. If you have upbeat lyrics, then go and write a really sombre piece of music, most of the time it won't work. Sometimes I have old sets of lyrics that I feel fit the music nicely so I edit them to fit the music, or vice versa.

[splitsecond]

Generally, how we write in my band is one of us will have a basic concept for song structure, or a riff, or a progression, and we will hammer out the basics, then layer on the other parts. As far as lyrics go, our main vocalist writes a lot of stuff in his own time that winds up fitting on what we write, or he writes a melody and a concept after we finish the song musically. Then we all kind of pick it apart and make it work.

[Tristan Needler]

There is no way I could possibly write lyrics without music. But I'm not a wordsmith at all.

My friend I was in a band with used to do them separately. Write stories/lyrics/poems, and then tweak them to fit with music he wrote. Or music first, then lyrics.

[billyboatkid]

It just depends for me.

Sometimes I have lyrics or I have a melody.

What ever clicks at the moment.

[chrisstahl]

Just depends. Sometimes I have a lyrical idea i want to express. Sometimes I have a vocal melody in my head and i'll leave myself a voice mail of it. sometimes I have a guitar part or piano part and then the melody comes from it. I don't put creativity in a box. It just kinda happens how it happens.

[ClydeMcAllister]

It's always different. Sometimes I hear some bad-ass music in my head and write it, sometimes I get a huge stream of lyrics to put music to later on. Though, some of my favorite songs that I've written were ones where I just came up with both music and lyrics at the same time.

[eliselovesmusic]

I love arguing about this.

I guess it's definitley down to the individual though. I can't write the music first because the lyrics sound forced - you can tell that I'm trying really hard to make the words all fit in and have some kind of a rhyme.

When I do lyrics first the music just feels 'right' when I write it. Sometimes it all comes at once. I like it when that happens.

[lonelysuperstar]

I prefer to write lyrics first because I feel like I write much better lyrics when I do. I just set out to write a poem, and I make myself forget that it's even going to turn into a song. Then, when I write something on the guitar, I can always adjust whatever I've written to fit with the rhythm of what I'm playing. I find if I write the music first that my lyrics usually turn out shit.

[ShimmerAndSpill]

I could never write lyrics first, I always have the instrumental structure written out. But I'm not a great lyricist, which is probably why I can't just write lyrics without music first.

[devinisdie]

I agree with whoever said it was on an individual basis, but I also think the order won't be the same for the person for each song. I've written songs both ways or have even had both come at once on the rarest of occasions. I like doing lyrics first, as I have a lot more music on reserve to mess with, and usually I find something. Tasteful use of metre and alliteration make writing the music and vocal melodies a lot easier, so I think it's good to keep those things in mind.

[Undue Noise]

Firstly, I definitely agree that it's down to the invidual, but for me personally, I go with finding a good basic melody. One I have that, I'll write some lyrics to fit in with that melody, tweeking either the music or the lyrics to make it fit.

[npuesey]

For me it varies. Sometimes I like to get the feel of the song first than i will write lyrics. Or vise versa.

[Pogurt]

For me the lyrics and the melody usually come together. If i ever come up with one before the other, though, it's the melody first.

[11:11]

I write lyrics with some sort of rhythm/melody in mind, and then go and put music to them later. However, I find that the music is never very good. When I write just music though, I can never think of words to put to them :shrug:

[SonEric84]

I write lyrics with some sort of rhythm/melody in mind, and then go and put music to them later. However, I find that the music is never very good. When I write just music though, I can never think of words to put to them :shrug:



hah Basically my problem...it fucking sucks hardcore.

[chickmgnt478]

ya it all depends on the person. ive had songs spill out before i even touched the guitar. and then ive played and then had the words come. sometimes the chords are alot of the same but i feel i only sing good in certain keys so i dont change it to much which hurts the guitar ability that could go with the song maybe.

[eraserhead]

Depends...I don't think one necessarily works better than the other

Personally, I believe that you can have the best lyrics in the world, but unless you have a good melody, you don't have shit for a song. I'm finally starting to learn this after three or so years of trying to write songs.

[Of Colour]

When I write songs, I usually come up with the music or a drumbeat out of nowhere. Then, depending on the mood and feeling I get, I start singing some kind of melody with pure gibberish until some words start to come out of the fog. Then I sit down and fine tune them until it all makes sense in some way.

Sometimes I carry some lines and verses around with me until I have a chance to use them. If you want to hear the end results of this process, click on the link on my signature.

- Bee

[KenjiBeast]

I really like coming up with the backing first, and then laying some lyrics over top of it. that way, I think I really get to express the emotion of the music, instead of coming up with some music to express my lyrics.

[Metal Now]

I often start with a melody and add lyrics later and I like the way lyrics change to fit melody. I often end up saying something better while I'm trying to make it more/less concise to fit a melody.

[dazygrl02]

Whenever I write songs, I always end up writing it to the melody of whatever song I heard last, so I'd think it would be easier if you had music first.

[EndSerenading]

no way could we ever do lyrics first. THEME first yes. But very rarely do we ever have lyrics before a song is mostly done. When we write songs we kind of have a mood or theme in mind for the song and go for there with the actual instruments. Once we have the basic structure and the vocalist has heard it he starts working on the melodies and lyrics. He often helps out with the theme/mood if he has ideas for them, but waits to really work on lyrics and vocals until the song is structured a decent bit.

Obviously everyone has a different approach, but I feel like the lyrics work best with songs when they are written last. You can weave the words around the mood and cadence of the song. When you do lyrics first, I feel like you run into areas where a certain line just doesnt fit what is going on musically.

Either that or you end up writing the music around lyrics, and as a guitar player that just feels REALLY constraining and claustrophobic. When we setup an overall theme for the song, we have no idea where it will take us. We usually start with a riff that is the beginning or end of a song and work forwards or backwards respectively. We have no idea where each new riff will take us until we get there. If I was writing around lyrics and having to fit the music to them I just feel that my creativity can only go so far. When I write without worrying about the lyrics you are free to take the song in any direction you want. Free for the song to be 3 minutes or 15 minutes.

[RecklessXRandy]

Music first, writing music to lyrics sounds horrible but the other way around it can be a good thing.

[Tip The Scales]

Music first, writing music to lyrics sounds horrible but the other way around it can be a good thing.

I disagree. It isn't as common a method when writing music, but for example, much of Follie a Deux was written off of Pete's lyrics.

Personally, I'm always writing poetry, then when I fool around with chord progressions, I'll sing various melodies with the poetry I write. That's what I find easiest and what produces the best results.

However, I think it's foolish to say that one way is better than the other. Whatever way works best for you is the best way.

[Bruised26]

I usually pick a melody, then play off that melody and make a full song out of it. I usually pick lyrics that I write before that.

Also, I ALWAYS avoid the 1-5-6-4 chord progression. That one is so over used (thanks Blink 182 and a million other bands).

[ascitiesburn101]

Music then lyrics, most of the time. If I didn't write that way, all of my shit would be far too wordy.