Abortion...

[livingalive626]

...is murder. check out this link, then please tell me how you can still say life does not form at conception. http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

[industrialbelt]

abortion is ok

[more heart]

You're 16, list your religion as Christian, are moderately "Conservative", and from Texas. I need not listen to your warped views thank you very much.

[thebestkylever]

:popcorn:

[SouthernCross40]

:popcorn:

Seconded

[livingalive626]

You're 16, list your religion as Christian, are moderately "Conservative", and from Texas. I need not listen to your warped views thank you very much.

wow.

[livingalive626]

and btw the whole point of this was for you to watch the video. im asking for you to watch it, then talk about it.

[more heart]

wow.

At least you now see how ridiculous you are...

[Justin_stacy]

I'd rather talk about Obama's disdain for retarded bowlers, but alas someone deleted that thread.:-(

[StillTrying1288]

:popcorn:

Agreed.

[loveisdead]

At least you now see how ridiculous you are...
You're 16, list your religion as Christian, are moderately "Conservative", and from Texas. I need not listen to your warped views thank you very much.
That doesn't automatically make someone have "warped" views. I disagree with her just as much as the next person but don't be a dick.
I'd rather talk about Obama's disdain for retarded bowlers, but alas someone deleted that thread.:-(

Agreed haha.

[more heart]

That doesn't automatically make someone have "warped" views. I disagree with her just as much as the next person but don't be a dick.

Well there's no need for a thread such as this...

By the way, the OP is a guy

[loveisdead]

Well there's no need for a thread such as this...

By the way, the OP is a guy

Oops haha. Whatever, people are gonna make threads like this, but using the search function might have been a better way to go about it.

[perceptrons]

Watched it, and I still think it is OK.

Kinda weird that the person on the video was just toying with all of it though.

[loveisdead]

The video was very pointless.

[Machu505]

I love abortion.

[zion the lion]

...is murder. watch the video on this link, then please tell me how you can still say it is OK. http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

Says someone with a penis who will never push something 14 inches in circumference out of a tiny little hole...yeah ok. I wish I was aborted after watching that shit, I was eating eggs and bacon. Jesus christ.

I'm glad for abortion, without it I wouldnt exist. If its murder then so is eating eggs, I dont see people bitching about the murder of cute little chicks.

[Burn That Shit]

...is murder. watch the video on this link, then please tell me how you can still say it is OK. http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

I think abortion is great. Sometimes when I'm eating cheerios I pretend each little "O" is a fetus and when I put them into my mouth I'm aborting them. Delicious.

[loveisdead]

I think abortion is great. Sometimes when I'm eating cheerios I pretend each little "O" is a fetus and when I put them into my mouth I'm aborting them. Delicious.
He's 16, he has an excuse for a dumb post. You, not so much.

[StillTrying1288]

People really need to chill, one dumb post doesn't excuse another dumb post.

[Burn That Shit]

He's 16, he has an excuse for a dumb post. You, not so much.

He's 16 - he has an excuse for humor going over his head. You, not so much.

[livingalive626]

funny how everyone is using so much logic to back their opinions here.
my goal was not to post a video and have everyone comment on how gross it was. it was to open discussion.
and as far as calling it a dumb post.....
my only goal here is to expose abortion for what it is, because i believe it is killing innocent children. is that so horrible?

[loveisdead]

He's 16 - he has an excuse for humor going over his head. You, not so much.
Does bad humor still constitute humor?

[Burn That Shit]

Does bad humor still constitute humor?

Well don't be a complete moron, humor is subjective.

[loveisdead]

funny how everyone is using so much logic to back their opinions here.
my goal was not to post a video and have everyone comment on how gross it was. it was to open discussion.
and as far as calling it a dumb post.....
my only goal here is to expose abortion for what it is, because i believe it is killing innocent children. is that so horrible?
No we get your point, but the video is the least persuasive thing on the website. It's been done hundreds of times. Some of the arguments they present on the tabs on the side are a better way to go about opening up a discussion.

[loveisdead]

Well don't be a complete moron, humor is subjective.
I think we're fighting because of our avatars haha.

[Burn That Shit]

I think we're fighting because of our avatars haha.

I don't mind Blink-182, avatar was in jest. ;)

[thehereaway]

I think abortion is okay in some cases, like if a woman was raped and was pregnant as a result. Not sure how i feel about it other than that.

[zion the lion]

funny how everyone is using so much logic to back their opinions here.
my goal was not to post a video and have everyone comment on how gross it was. it was to open discussion.
and as far as calling it a dumb post.....
my only goal here is to expose abortion for what it is, because i believe it is killing innocent children. is that so horrible?

they arent alive yet so they dont count as innocent children. But I like to think of abortion as gods gift to mankind. Without it maybe the antichrist would have come already (for those who are religious). Its because of abortion we dont have crazy rapists trying to visit their little rape babies (by requesting joint custody which happens a lot), or a bunch of Pol Pot's running around. There would be millions of more unwanted babies in the world without it and then what? A bunch more orphans living in the sewers (like in romania) or tied to beds because orphanages cant afford cribs. Instead of trying to defend things that arent even alive yet, how about trying to defend the actual children who are being murdered and abused every day.

[samsara]

I think it all depends on the circumstances.

[livingalive626]

they arent alive yet so they dont count as innocent children. But I like to think of abortion as gods gift to mankind. Without it maybe the antichrist would have come already (for those who are religious). Its because of abortion we dont have crazy rapists trying to visit their little rape babies (by requesting joint custody which happens a lot), or a bunch of Pol Pot's running around. There would be millions of more unwanted babies in the world without it and then what? A bunch more orphans living in the sewers (like in romania) or tied to beds because orphanages cant afford cribs. Instead of trying to defend things that arent even alive yet, how about trying to defend the actual children who are being murdered and abused every day.


that is where i will disagree with you, because i believe life forms at conception.

[livingalive626]

No we get your point, but the video is the least persuasive thing on the website. It's been done hundreds of times. Some of the arguments they present on the tabs on the side are a better way to go about opening up a discussion.

agreed. ill edit the post.

[zion the lion]

that is where i will disagree with you, because i believe life forms at conception.

And why do you think that?

[livingalive626]

And why do you think that?

*sigh* click on the link http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

[zion the lion]

*sigh* click on the link http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

I saw the video already, I want to know why you think life begins at conception, and dont tell me that the vidoe of dead babies brought you to that conclusion

[livingalive626]

I saw the video already, I want to know why you think life begins at conception, and dont tell me that the vidoe of dead babies brought you to that conclusion

read the tabs to the left of the video, as someone already pointed out.
i shouldn't have said just view the video, my fault there.

but if not, this:

"[The Zygote (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zygote)] results from the union of an oocyte (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oocyte) and a sperm (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sperm). A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gamete) or sperm ... unites with a female gamete or oocyte ... to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=totipotent) cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."
-Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18

[Burn That Shit]

read the tabs to the left of the video, as someone already pointed out.
i shouldn't have said just view the video, my fault there.

For the sake of arguement, and this is completely hypothetical, say your mom gets raped by a big scary man and becomes pregnant. You'd be against her getting an abortion?(hypothetically assuming she wanted to get one).

[livingalive626]

For the sake of arguement and this is completely hypothetical, say your mom gets raped by a big scary man and becomes pregnant. You'd be against her getting an abortion?(hypothetically assuming she wanted to get one).

yes. if you truly believe life begins at conception, can you really justify itt?(taking the life that is)

[zion the lion]

read the tabs to the left of the video, as someone already pointed out.
i shouldn't have said just view the video, my fault there.

but if not, this:

"[The Zygote (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zygote)] results from the union of an oocyte (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oocyte) and a sperm (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sperm). A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gamete) or sperm ... unites with a female gamete or oocyte ... to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=totipotent) cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."
-Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18

I couldnt believe that life begins at conception even if I tried. I still believe that life begins when the baby pops out. But hey thanks for answering

[livingalive626]

I couldnt believe that life begins at conception even if I tried. I still believe that life begins when the baby pops out. But hey thanks for answering

so you are against partial-birth abortion then? because technically the baby "pops out"
and no problem.

[Burn That Shit]

yes. if you truly believe life begins at conception, can you really justify itt?(taking the life that is)

I guess not if you're saying that the incredibly small cell in her body is the same as me or you, which is pretty flawed ideology.

[livingalive626]

I guess not if you're saying that the incredibly small cell in her body is the same as me or you, which is pretty flawed ideology.

"a person is a person, no matter how small"- dr seuss

"It is quite true that embryos and fetuses are less developed than a newborn (unless, of course, that newborn was born prematurely). But this, too, is a distinction which has no moral significance. It is a difference of degree, not of kind. Physical and/or intellectual development has nothing to do with determining personhood outside the womb. It is equally insignificant for determining personhood inside the womb. Children are generally less developed than adults. People with developmental disabilities may be less developed than some children, and those with extraordinary mental capacity are no more human than those with lesser IQs. It is humanity, not brain capacity or arm strength that determines personhood."

[zion the lion]

so you are against partial-birth abortion then? because technically the baby "pops out"
and no problem.

Once it gets to the point where it looks more like a person and less like a seahorse I think its just a waste of time to abort it when someone could just adopt it. I dont know if I can say I'm against it, but I wouldnt do it.

[livingalive626]

Once it gets to the point where it looks more like a person and less like a seahorse I think its just a waste of time to abort it when someone could just adopt it. I dont know if I can say I'm against it, but I wouldnt do it.

well read what i just posted above you and tell me what you think

[loveisdead]

Stop wasting your time (http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=637792) with arguments that have been had a ton on this site.

[zion the lion]

well read what i just posted above you and tell me what you think

I dont think I'll ever change your mind and you'll never change mine. But was that whole thing from dr seuss or just that first part?

[Bobcat46308]

I wish I was aborted after watching that shit, I was eating eggs and bacon. Jesus christ.

Yeah, abortion isn't pretty.

I'm glad for abortion, without it I wouldnt exist.

Without abortion many other people would exist.

If its murder then so is eating eggs, I dont see people bitching about the murder of cute little chicks.

Ahhh, not quite. I think we can both agree that murdering a human being is not comparable to eating the unfertilized egg of a chicken. That's all that the eggs you buy at a store are (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong).

Says someone with a penis who will never push something 14 inches in circumference out of a tiny little hole...yeah ok.

That doesn't necessarily mean that he can't have an opinion about this issue. Yeah, I mean childbirth is no doubt a tough and painful experience, but for lack of a better phrase "don't commit the crime if you can't do the time." People may disagree with me on that and it is 100% my opinion, but I think our society suffers from a total lack of accountability when it comes to this subject.

[zion the lion]

Yeah, abortion isn't pretty.


Without abortion many other people would exist.


Ahhh, not quite. I think we can both agree that murdering a human being is not comparable to eating the unfertilized egg of a chicken. That's all that the eggs you buy at a store are (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong).


That doesn't necessarily mean that he can't have an opinion about this issue. Yeah, I mean childbirth is no doubt a tough and painful experience, but for lack of a better phrase "don't commit the crime if you can't do the time." People may disagree with me on that and it is 100% my opinion, but I think our society suffers from a total lack of accountability when it comes to this subject.

Without abortion I wouldnt have existed, I care about myself, not other people's would-be children.

Although in other countries they eat fertilized eggs as a delicacy, which is where my example came from.

[MyNameIsRoss]

If you are against abortion, then when you knock a ho' up, have the damn thing. If somebody else decides to go the other route, then fine, it does not affect you. End of discussion. Fuck..

[tambam]

Shut the fuck up.

Some stupid video is not going to change my mind. I know what abortion is, I know what happens, and I know it's not the most pleasant-looking thing. That still is not going to change my pro-choice stance whatsoever. It's so easy for someone like you to call it immoral and murder, but then again, you'll never have to make the decision to have an abortion. This is such a dead-end debate and I'm really irritated that you're trying to appeal to emotion by making this stupid thread instead of bumping the already existing, numerous threads on abortion.

[tommy's ghost]

I guess not if you're saying that the incredibly small cell in her body is the same as me or you, which is extremely flawed ideology.

;-)

Don't waste your time on him though, he quoted Dr. Seuss to support his argument. Seriously.

[thespearkid]

Abortion is a woman's issue. I'm sick of rich men thinking they can decide what a woman can or can't do. As George Carlin said, "Pro-life is anti-woman."

[Justin_stacy]

;-)

Don't waste your time on him though, he quoted Dr. Seuss to support his argument. Seriously.

.......as if there is a wiser man?

[TK]

Don't knock until you've tried it!

[thespearkid]

.......as if there is a wiser man?
Dr. Seuss was actually a genius. Problem is, he wasn't talking about abortion when he said that (I didn't even look at the quote but I assume Horton Hears a Who was quoted), he was talking about individualism and Democracy.

[bung]

Didn't read the thread, so someone might have said it, but abortion CANNOT be murder in countries where abortion is legal.

Murder is defined as the illegal taking of a human life. Abortion is legal. By definition, it cannot be murder.

Get this through your heads, you dense pro-life thundercunts.

[screamoutmyname]

hah creating these threads on ap.net is always a great idea

[diehtc0ke]

Didn't read the thread, so someone might have said it, but abortion CANNOT be murder in countries where abortion is legal.

Murder is defined as the illegal taking of a human life. Abortion is legal. By definition, it cannot be murder.

Get this through your heads, you dense pro-life thundercunts.
This thread was worth it.

[UnderMyDreams]

"a person is a person, no matter how small"- dr seuss


This one time, a pro life group used that as a sort of moto.

They got sued by Dr. Seuss's wife and demanded that it be removed because that is not what the quote in any way meant.

Nice try.

[Charles777]

I'd rather talk about Obama's disdain for retarded bowlers, but alas someone deleted that thread.:-(

I feel your pain

[MyNameIsRoss]

These kind of 'issues' are meant to distract the simple minded from relevant ones.

[Lueda Alia]

Oh, la la......

[Broclee]

...is murder. check out this link, then please tell me how you can still say life does not form at conception. http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

OP, are you vegetarian or vegan?

[paper halo]

...is murder. check out this link, then please tell me how you can still say life does not form at conception. http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-case.html

Gtfo.

It's easy to get up on your high horse when talking about a decision that you'll never have to face up to. There's no chance of abortion going away any time soon so you may as well just deal with it.

[diehtc0ke]

OP, are you vegetarian or vegan?
Oh, he made it clear that we can eat all the animals we want but when it comes to zygotes, they're too precious.

[.invisible ink.]

These kind of 'issues' are meant to distract the simple minded from relevant ones.

so so true. distract the simple-minded populus so they don't pay attention to the important things that are being done without their knowledge or consent. welcome to the age of mass apathy and ignorance.

[livingalive626]

OP, are you vegetarian or vegan?

nope.

[livingalive626]

Oh, he made it clear that we can eat all the animals we want but when it comes to zygotes, they're too precious.

omg, you're an idiot. but yes, you are exactly right there.

[livingalive626]

Gtfo.

It's easy to get up on your high horse when talking about a decision that you'll never have to face up to. There's no chance of abortion going away any time soon so you may as well just deal with it.

make me:)

and are you really gonna use that logic? since im never gonna make that decision, i have no say in it? do you realize how far that can be taken?
and you're right. there's no hope. let's all give up now and go home and cut ourselves.

[paper halo]

make me:)

and are you really gonna use that logic? since im never gonna make that decision, i have no say in it? do you realize how far that can be taken?
and you're right. there's no hope. let's all give up now and go home and cut ourselves.

Eh? I just said it made it easy for you to get up on your high horse. Though since you mentioned it, why should you have any say in what women do with their bodies?

In fact, nevermind, this has been done to death and you've been linked to previous threads. You're not going to change anyone's mind, so this whole thread is little more than pseudo-intellectual masturbation.

[Broclee]

Oh, he made it clear that we can eat all the animals we want but when it comes to zygotes, they're too precious.

Ah, I see.

nope.

That's what I thought. I'm glad to see the human superiority complex is still alive and well.

[remedyeli]

OP is almost annoying as PETA.

[Broclee]

OP is almost annoying as PETA.

The video was basically the same. I think the abortion one tried even harder, though...it got kinda cheesy.

[sammyboy516]

You're 16, list your religion as Christian, are moderately "Conservative", and from Texas. I need not listen to your warped views thank you very much.


haha, dude, you're only 17, bad example. It could just as easily be argued that you belive that abortion is ok because you didn't grow up the way he did. you're the warped one if you can't accept anyone else's opinions based on stuff like that, you guys disagree; get over it. All your post served to do was further the stereotype that liberals are ignorant.

[saysmydoctor]

Go grab your Bible you thump at your Baptist church on Sundays and read Leviticus. Then when you have premarital sex, get the girl pregnant, and aren't ready for the baby--pray to God the girl hasn't had her mind closed by those who don't have to carry the nine months and are simply pushing their views upon her.

[more heart]

haha, dude, you're only 17, bad example. It could just as easily be argued that you belive that abortion is ok because you didn't grow up the way he did. you're the warped one if you can't accept anyone else's opinions based on stuff like that, you guys disagree; get over it. All your post served to do was further the stereotype that liberals are ignorant.

How am I ignorant? I view this topic from an ethical standpoint. Should a girl who was raped and therby impregnated be forced to bear that child? Even more so, what about that child? Think how devestating that would be to find out you were born from rape...

[OveriseFan]

How am I ignorant? I view this topic from an ethical standpoint. Should a girl who was raped and therby impregnated be forced to bear that child? Even more so, what about that child? Think how devestating that would be to find out you were born from rape...

Because that's not what you said, at all.

You essentially closed your ears to his opinion because he's conservative, Christian, and from Texas.

[Love As Arson]

The male-female ratio in this thread is interesting given the topic.

[more heart]

Because that's not what you said, at all.

You essentially closed your ears to his opinion because he's conservative, Christian, and from Texas.

I did so because he views it from a religious stand point and not an ethical stand point. If that is what he wishes to believe, fine, more power to him. This was the worst way to share his views.

[imahoodlum]

I watched the video. Abortion is ok.

[OveriseFan]

The male-female ratio in this thread is interesting given the topic.

For some reason, I've always found males to be more passionate about this topic than females... It's probably not true at all, but that's my experience.

[Love As Arson]

For some reason, I've always found males to be more passionate about this topic than females... It's probably not true at all, but that's my experience.
It isn't true. But, I would not be surprised if some women weren't deterred from the issue because they'd be made to feel guilty about their choices.

[Big_Guy]

jesus christ OP, of course you would think life begins at conception. you're a brainwashed christian. as is that doctor from that site.


your opinion is fine and dandy and people have to respect that, but you've been biased from the start, so that's why people aren't taking it so seriously.

[aolsux]

I am so pro-abortion. Everybody should get one.

[J.C.]

please tell me how you can still say life does not form at conception.

Ain't that difficult. Embryos are capable of being frozen and unfrozen. The same can't be done with actual human life.

The matter of abortion delves much deeper than your religious beliefs about when life begins. Laws have to deal with the practical realities of the society. Would you be comfortable with the government having the power to force a rape victim to reproduce?

[billyboatkid]

Stupid thread is stupid.

[J.C.]

I watched the video. Abortion is ok.

I've never understood the logic in posting videos like that.

I don't want to see a couple of 400 lbers. go at it, but that doesn't mean fatty sex should be illegal.

[J.C.]

Didn't read the thread, so someone might have said it, but abortion CANNOT be murder in countries where abortion is legal.

Murder is defined as the illegal taking of a human life. Abortion is legal. By definition, it cannot be murder.

Get this through your heads, you dense pro-life thundercunts.

A lot of the more ardent pro-life advocates support the death penalty. Always one of the more interesting moral/logical leaps.

[saysmydoctor]

You got fucking Dom to come out of hiding and post. Awesome.

[alcoholandirony]

Approximately 25% of all pregnancies are spontaneously aborted by the 6th week following a woman's last menstrual period.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/340/23/1796

Approximately 8% of all pregnancies are spontaneously aborted after the 6th week following a woman's last menstrual period.
http://tinyurl.com/d683xk

25% before week 6 + 8% after week 6 = 33% of pregnancies spontaneously aborted.

Even when induced abortion was most prevalent in the United States (1981), only 29.3 of every 1000 fetuses were aborted, which is 2.93%. As of 2005, this rate has fallen to 1.94%.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

So by using this logic, one can rationally conclude that God aborts fetuses 10 times more frequently than the United States.

Where is the outrage?

[imahoodlum]

I've never understood the logic in posting videos like that.

I don't want to see a couple of 400 lbers. go at it, but that doesn't mean fatty sex should be illegal.
Yeah, I think most people grasp the concept of abortion and what it's about.Posting a video will not change my mind of what I think is right or wrong.

On another note, I don't understand how people think it's alright to intervene with other people's decision to have a baby or not. If they do not want it, how does it directly effect a third party who is not going through that persons situation? Who are they to say what is right or wrong for that person?

[sammyboy516]

How am I ignorant? I view this topic from an ethical standpoint. Should a girl who was raped and therby impregnated be forced to bear that child? Even more so, what about that child? Think how devestating that would be to find out you were born from rape...

i meant that it's ignorant to assume that his opinion is what it is based on the reasons that you gave (a "16 year old christian from texas").

[sammyboy516]

Because that's not what you said, at all.

You essentially closed your ears to his opinion because he's conservative, Christian, and from Texas.


exactly, thank you

[sweet tangerine]

Okay, so if you believe life begins at conception, are you against contraception? Maybe this is a dumb question, but I am genuinely curious.

[livingalive626]

Okay, so if you believe life begins at conception, are you against contraception? Maybe this is a dumb question, but I am genuinely curious.

i believe contraception is ok if it simply prevents the sperm from reaching the egg...

[livingalive626]

Yeah, I think most people grasp the concept of abortion and what it's about.Posting a video will not change my mind of what I think is right or wrong.

On another note, I don't understand how people think it's alright to intervene with other people's decision to have a baby or not. If they do not want it, how does it directly effect a third party who is not going through that persons situation? Who are they to say what is right or wrong for that person?

well, i can only try and hope.

and to be perfectly honest that gets into the whole debate about absolute morals...which i would be fine talking about but not on this thread...

[Broclee]

well, i can only try and hope.

and to be perfectly honest that gets into the whole debate about absolute morals...which i would be fine talking about but not on this thread...

Are you seriously hoping that someone on here will see the video and be a completely changed person? I mean, most people who are pro-choice tend to understand what abortion entails. I might be completely off-base, but I'm genuinely curious.

[livingalive626]

Are you seriously hoping that someone on here will see the video and be a completely changed person? I mean, most people who are pro-choice tend to understand what abortion entails. I might be completely off-base, but I'm genuinely curious.

really? do you have statistics to prove that?

[Broclee]

really? do you have statistics to prove that?

Would you be happier if I said most people (pro-life and -choice) tend to understand what abortion entails?

I can honestly say that I don't know anyone above the age of 10 that doesn't understand what an abortion is, and what it entails, no matter how they feel about it.

If you have statistics to prove me wrong on that, then by all means fire away, my man.

[Duexy]

"a person is a person, no matter how small"- dr seuss




seriously dude?

[Bruised26]

I'm glad for abortion, without it I wouldnt exist. If its murder then so is eating eggs, I dont see people bitching about the murder of cute little chicks.

Did you really just compare and animal to a human? No one will take you seriously with that analogy. One has an actual soul, the other was just made for food... Abortion is murder. No questions asked. You can support it, or you cannot, but abortion is undeniably murder

[Broclee]

Did you really just compare and animal to a human? No one will take you seriously with that analogy. One has an actual soul, the other was just made for food... Abortion is murder. No questions asked. You can support it, or you cannot, but abortion is undeniably murder

I gotta ask, how in the hell do you know what animals were created for, and that they have no soul?

[Duexy]

Did you really just compare and animal to a human? No one will take you seriously with that analogy. One has an actual soul, the other was just made for food... Abortion is murder. No questions asked. You can support it, or you cannot, but abortion is undeniably murder


typical christian response.

[zion the lion]

Did you really just compare and animal to a human? No one will take you seriously with that analogy. One has an actual soul, the other was just made for food... Abortion is murder. No questions asked. You can support it, or you cannot, but abortion is undeniably murder

And we have a soul? Please tell me what it looks like, where its located and what it does. Or you can explain to me how animals dont have a soul and why. Fruit was made for food, unless we use your logic then...people were made for food too.

Its not murder its not alive, its a thing, it hasnt been born yet.

[J.C.]

Did you really just compare and animal to a human? No one will take you seriously with that analogy. One has an actual soul, the other was just made for food... Abortion is murder. No questions asked. You can support it, or you cannot, but abortion is undeniably murder

I like your facts-based approach to the issue.

[perceptrons]

I love that people think we aren't animals. Hilarious stuff.

[zion the lion]

I think people who try to use that video to change people's minds forget what actual labor is like.
-the vagina tears
-pooping and peeing are really common
-most of the time women throw up
-and the beautiful mucous plug (please do look up pictures of that one)
A few years ago I saw someone give labor in the car when we couldnt make it to the hospital...the images of dead babies and their bones will never top the image of that baby crowning, blood and hair and a nasty gray baby (she's cute now so its ok) is burned into my brain forever...

the end.

[Bruised26]

I gotta ask, how in the hell do you know what animals were created for, and that they have no soul?

We are discussing chickens. It is common knowledge they were made for food. What else do you think they could've been made for? Running the government? Well with the way our government is going, you would think chickens were running it.

[Bruised26]

I think people who try to use that video to change people's minds forget what actual labor is like.
-the vagina tears
-pooping and peeing are really common
-most of the time women throw up
-and the beautiful mucous plug (please do look up pictures of that one)
A few years ago I saw someone give labor in the car when we couldnt make it to the hospital...the images of dead babies and their bones will never top the image of that baby crowning, blood and hair and a nasty gray baby (she's cute now so its ok) is burned into my brain forever...

the end.

Why not just use a condom or birth control, and save the drama of having to decide between abortion or not? That seems a hell of a lot more simple to me

[J.C.]

Why not just use a condom or birth control, and save the drama of having to decide between abortion or not? That seems a hell of a lot more simple to me

What if they're raped?

[Bruised26]

And we have a soul? Please tell me what it looks like, where its located and what it does. Or you can explain to me how animals dont have a soul and why. Fruit was made for food, unless we use your logic then...people were made for food too.

Its not murder its not alive, its a thing, it hasnt been born yet.

A soul is not a physical thing....And just because it isnt born does not mean it isnt alive. to say it isnt alive is so ignorant. Its heart is beating at 6 weeks old.

[zion the lion]

We are discussing chickens. It is common knowledge they were made for food. What else do you think they could've been made for? Running the government? Well with the way our government is going, you would think chickens were running it.

Um...what were humans made for then?

[Bruised26]

What if they're raped?

If they are raped, it is a different scenario, but I think if that happens the mother can just decide what is best for her because her getting pregnant was out of her control. If it is not from rape, the mother should take full responsibility and endure those 9 months, then she can keep it or put it up for adoption (just my opinion. dont scream over it.)

[StillTrying1288]

Um...what were humans made for then?

Food for larger carnivores...

[Bruised26]

Um...what were humans made for then?

Humans are at the top of the food chain and are in control of everything below them, basically. I dont really know to be honest, im only a high school sophomore. It just depends on your beliefs. But humans are basically just..incharge?

[Burn That Shit]

A soul is not a physical thing....And just because it isnt born does not mean it isnt alive. to say it isnt alive is so ignorant. Its heart is beating at 6 weeks old.

It's not alive.

[StillTrying1288]

It's not alive.

O no you are ignorant good sir!

[Bruised26]

It's not alive.

Yes, it is. This is not a religious thing, this is a factual scientific topic. A baby is alive when its heart starts beating. That is simple biology. But if you want to kill a baby, go ahead. no one is stopping you!

[Burn That Shit]

Humans are at the top of the food chain and are in control of everything below them, basically. I dont really know to be honest, im only a high school sophomore. It just depends on your beliefs. But humans are basically just..incharge?

If humans were created to be "in charge" than we really suck at what we were made to do.

[zion the lion]

Humans are at the top of the food chain and are in control of everything below them, basically. I dont really know to be honest, im only a high school sophomore. It just depends on your beliefs. But humans are basically just..incharge?

I learned the same crazy shit in sunday school. But you should realize that really parasites are at the top of the food chain, theyre eating at us all the time. Just because we have guns doesnt mean we're in control.

[Bruised26]

If humans were created to be "in charge" than we really suck at what we were made to do.

Well who do you think was made to be incharge? Animals?

[Burn That Shit]

Yes, it is. This is not a religious thing, this is a factual scientific topic. A baby is alive when its heart starts beating. That is simple biology. But if you want to kill a baby, go ahead. no one is stopping you!

So the organ that pumps blood through your body is the only thing that constitutes life? Suuureeee.

[StillTrying1288]

Considering that a virus can destory large populations of humans I really doubt we are in-charge as you put it.

[Burn That Shit]

Well who do you think was made to be incharge? Animals?

No one was "made" to be in charge.

[Bruised26]

I learned the same crazy shit in sunday school. But you should realize that really parasites are at the top of the food chain, theyre eating at us all the time. Just because we have guns doesnt mean we're in control.

Humans are the only ones with the ability to verbally communicate through language and have the ability to reason. Animals dont. If we put a bunch of...i dont know, lets say elephants in charge of our government, they would not know what to do because they cannot reason and communicate.

[J.C.]

If they are raped, it is a different scenario,

No, it's not. The circumstances are irrelevant. Either it's an innocent human life or it's not.

but I think if that happens the mother can just decide what is best for her because her getting pregnant was out of her control.

So you support the taking of what you deemed innocent human life? Then I don't know what we're arguing about.

[J.C.]

Humans are the only ones with the ability to verbally communicate through language and have the ability to reason. Animals dont. If we put a bunch of...i dont know, lets say elephants in charge of our government, they would not know what to do because they cannot reason and communicate.

Animals can't communicate? Were you home-schooled?

[zion the lion]

Humans are the only ones with the ability to verbally communicate through language and have the ability to reason. Animals dont. If we put a bunch of...i dont know, lets say elephants in charge of our government, they would not know what to do because they cannot reason and communicate.

No, animals communicate in different ways, like body language, and sounds, how else do they know who's ready to mate, and what not to mate with? By the way, your "a baby's heart beats at 6 weeks" thing makes no sense because those chickens you eat have hearts too.

[Bruised26]

Animals can't communicate? Were you home-schooled?

I said through language, and actual words. I know they can communicate...

[oddwithoutend]

It is killing, and I am for it.

[Burn That Shit]

bG6b3V2MNxQ

[Bruised26]

No, animals communicate in different ways, like body language, and sounds, how else do they know who's ready to mate, and what not to mate with? By the way, your "a baby's heart beats at 6 weeks" thing makes no sense because those chickens you eat have hearts too.

I am a vegetarian... so i have no idea as to what you are talking about. A baby's heart DOES beat at 6 wks. that is a fact.

[StillTrying1288]

I said through language, and actual words. I know they can communicate...

Dolphins can.

[batmannj]

People all have their opinions on abortions and I doubt threads are going to convince them one way or the other. People have their mind made up, and discussing it here is pretty much a waste.

[zion the lion]

I am a vegetarian... so i have no idea as to what you are talking about. A baby's heart DOES beat at 6 wks. that is a fact.

Why the hell are you a vegetarian if you insist that animals (other than humans) were made for eating and nothing more?

[Broclee]

We are discussing chickens. It is common knowledge they were made for food. What else do you think they could've been made for? Running the government? Well with the way our government is going, you would think chickens were running it.

You didn't distinguish from chickens. You said "animals." Sure, chickens were brought up, but you used the all-encompassing word "animals." Did God solely make chickens for our consumption? Does it say that somewhere in the Bible? Did God tell you this? I'm a Christian, for our purposes here, but I don't buy that shit one bit.

Humans are at the top of the food chain and are in control of everything below them, basically. I dont really know to be honest, im only a high school sophomore. It just depends on your beliefs. But humans are basically just..incharge?

We're "in control?" We were MEANT to be in control? Again, I don't buy it.

Well who do you think was made to be incharge? Animals?

Humans are the only ones with the ability to verbally communicate through language and have the ability to reason. Animals dont. If we put a bunch of...i dont know, lets say elephants in charge of our government, they would not know what to do because they cannot reason and communicate.

Animals do perfectly fine in their own "governmental groups," for lack of a better term right now. They don't need us to organize their own societies. You still think they can't reason?

We are from from the only species with the ability to verbally communicate through language. Written language is probably the achievement you're looking for.

[oddwithoutend]

I am a vegetarian... so i have no idea as to what you are talking about. A baby's heart DOES beat at 6 wks. that is a fact.

Question: Are you killing someone when you take them off life support? Is that "killing"? I believe that would be "letting someone die". An unborn baby is on life support, right?

[Broclee]

I am a vegetarian... so i have no idea as to what you are talking about. A baby's heart DOES beat at 6 wks. that is a fact.

Honestly...you being vegetarian makes zero sense. You just said the only purpose for animals was for us to eat them.

[J.C.]

I said through language, and actual words.

How the hell would you have any fucking idea? Every species has their own way of communicating.

We manually teach ourselves a language. It doesn't come naturally. Are you at all familiar with feral children?

[Duexy]

Humans are the only ones with the ability to verbally communicate through language and have the ability to reason. Animals dont. If we put a bunch of...i dont know, lets say elephants in charge of our government, they would not know what to do because they cannot reason and communicate.

lol.

[Siren Silently]

Did you really just compare and animal to a human? No one will take you seriously with that analogy. One has an actual soul, the other was just made for food... Abortion is murder. No questions asked. You can support it, or you cannot, but abortion is undeniably murder

Humans are the only ones with the ability to verbally communicate through language and have the ability to reason. Animals dont. If we put a bunch of...i dont know, lets say elephants in charge of our government, they would not know what to do because they cannot reason and communicate.

This one might be dumber than the OP.

[livingalive626]

seriously dude?

yes, seriously.

[livingalive626]

I think people who try to use that video to change people's minds forget what actual labor is like.
-the vagina tears
-pooping and peeing are really common
-most of the time women throw up
-and the beautiful mucous plug (please do look up pictures of that one)
A few years ago I saw someone give labor in the car when we couldnt make it to the hospital...the images of dead babies and their bones will never top the image of that baby crowning, blood and hair and a nasty gray baby (she's cute now so its ok) is burned into my brain forever...

the end.


ok so just because it is gross is a reason to end a human life? is that really what you are saying?

[zion the lion]

ok so just because it is gross is a reason to end a human life? is that really what you are saying?

No, but what were you trying to say with that video?

[livingalive626]

No, but what were you trying to say with that video?

that life begins in the womb, and what abortion does to that life.

[more heart]

that life begins in the womb, and what abortion does to that life.

Just give it up already...

[livingalive626]

You didn't distinguish from chickens. You said "animals." Sure, chickens were brought up, but you used the all-encompassing word "animals." Did God solely make chickens for our consumption? Does it say that somewhere in the Bible? Did God tell you this? I'm a Christian, for our purposes here, but I don't buy that shit one bit.



We're "in control?" We were MEANT to be in control? Again, I don't buy it.





Animals do perfectly fine in their own "governmental groups," for lack of a better term right now. They don't need us to organize their own societies. You still think they can't reason?

We are from from the only species with the ability to verbally communicate through language. Written language is probably the achievement you're looking for.


if you say you are a Christian, please read the opening chapters of the Bible. you will see that God is clear we have dominion over animals.

[livingalive626]

Just give it up already...

do you seriously not have something better to do?
forgive me for being passionate about something. geez.

[more heart]

do you seriously not have something better to do?
forgive me for being passionate about something. geez.

Forgive us for being passionate about something too.
Besides, what gives you(a 16 year old male) the right to decide what does or doesn't come out of a woman's vagina?

[zion the lion]

that life begins in the womb, and what abortion does to that life.

I think you tried to disgust people to the point where they would change their minds about abortion by using that video instead of one with just a bunch of cute, fully formed, already alive babies. I just counteracted that with what happens during labor. I'm not saying that shitting, vomiting, pissing, vaginal tearing, and big globs of bloody mucous plopping out of the vagina should make someone want to abort their baby. I'm just saying theres a bit of nasty with either options.

[zion the lion]

Forgive us for being passionate about something too.
What gives you(a 16 year old male) the right to decide what does or doesn't come out of a woman's vagina?

this
I thought I sounded too much like a bitchy feminist when I said that earlier...

[more heart]

this
I thought I sounded too much like a bitchy feminist when I said that earlier...

No, it's an extremely valid arguement.

[cscwell107]

Abortion is murder. Thats all there is to it. You are taking someone else's life. If you think that abortion is ok then you think that murder is ok.

[zion the lion]

Abortion is murder. Thats all there is to it. You are taking someone else's life. If you think that abortion is ok then you think that murder is ok.

haha...again its not alive yet. And its not technically murder because its not illegal.

[cscwell107]

haha...again its not alive yet. And its not technically murder because its not illegal.

Who decides if the baby is alve yet?

And just because not illegal it doesn't make it right.

[zion the lion]

Who decides if the baby is alve yet?

And just because not illegal it doesn't make it right.

When it comes out its alive, when it takes its first breath its alive. I'm not seeing anything wrong with it. Abortion should be legal, available, safe, and rare. End of story.

[cscwell107]

What about the things that the potential life can achive. I was almost aborted but my biological mom chose to put me up for adoption. I don't know why mothers don't go that route instead of just going straight for the abortion.

[zion the lion]

What about the things that the potential life can achive. I was almost aborted but my biological mom chose to put me up for adoption. I don't know why mothers don't go that route instead of just going straight for the abortion.

Or you can look at all the aborted objects who would have turned into Pol Pot or Nero? But again I'm glad for abortion because without it I wouldnt exist. And maybe its just because the women dont want to/cant carry the baby for nine months.

[Duexy]

What about the things that the potential life can achive. I was almost aborted but my biological mom chose to put me up for adoption. I don't know why mothers don't go that route instead of just going straight for the abortion.


medical costs

health risks

pain

unwanted change in employment status (maternal leave)

stress

[Broclee]

if you say you are a Christian, please read the opening chapters of the Bible. you will see that God is clear we have dominion over animals.

Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
living thing that moveth upon the earth."

That was not a message to all men to inhabit the Earth, however, unless I'm misinterpreting the verse.

But while we're at it, see also:

Proverbs 12:10

"A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender
mercies of the wicked are cruel."

and,

Isaiah 66:3-4

"He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a
lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as
if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed
an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul
delightethin their abominations."


Or is this a thing where you're going to pick and choose Bible verses to make an argument?


What about the things that the potential
life can achive. I was almost aborted but my biological mom chose to
put me up for adoption. I don't know why mothers don't go that route
instead of just going straight for the abortion.

Information should be available on all available options, so that a choice can be made on one's own.

[cscwell107]

medical costs- Adopted parents pay for it

health risks- There is not enough pregnant mothers dying to use this

pain- Suck it up, its a human life

unwanted change in employment status (maternal leave)- You can find government help and some jobs pay for maternal leave

stress- More stress is caused if you kill a baby

Answers

[zion the lion]

Answers

Actually my grandma had an abortion back in like the 40s and compared to raising my mom there wasnt much stress at all. As for your suck it up its a human life bullshit I'll shove a bowling ball up your asshole and then you tell me how that feels ok?

[tambam]

Wow, the level of sheer stupidity in this thread is actually mind-boggling. Some people need a lesson in logic.

[Kaleidoscope]

I'm going to be in a debate on abortion soon. Should be quite a show.

[zion the lion]

I'm going to be in a debate on abortion soon. Should be quite a show. what side are you going to be on?

[Kaleidoscope]

what side are you going to be on?

We have to prepare to argue both sides, and then the day of the debate we find out which side we're on.

[Duexy]

Answers


you said you don't know why a mother wouldn't just have the baby and give it up for adoption. i gave you legit reasons why. you can give all the shitty "answers" you want, but at the end of the day its still alot easier for the mother to just abort.

[cscwell107]

you said you don't know why a mother wouldn't just have the baby and give it up for adoption. i gave you legit reasons why. you can give all the shitty "answers" you want, but at the end of the day its still alot easier for the mother to just abort.

Yea its a lot fucking easier to just kill someone if you don't want to deal with them. My professor gave me a 10 page paper to do today. I really didn't wanna do it so I just killed him. It was SOOOO much easier. Im glad I did it.

[tambam]

Yea its a lot fucking easier to just kill someone if you don't want to deal with them. My professor gave me a 10 page paper to do today. I really didn't wanna do it so I just killed him. It was SOOOO much easier. Im glad I did it.

You sound like a moron. That's clearly not what he meant.

[zion the lion]

Yea its a lot fucking easier to just kill someone if you don't want to deal with them. My professor gave me a 10 page paper to do today. I really didn't wanna do it so I just killed him. It was SOOOO much easier. Im glad I did it.

...Killing your professor would be killing something that was alive officially, scientifically, legally alive, an embryo isnt alive. Jesus youre 18! use some logic.

[Duexy]

Yea its a lot fucking easier to just kill someone if you don't want to deal with them. My professor gave me a 10 page paper to do today. I really didn't wanna do it so I just killed him. It was SOOOO much easier. Im glad I did it.


:facepalm:

If you truly believe that a zygote is entitled to the same rights as a grown man then this argument is pointless.

[J.C.]

if you say you are a Christian, please read the opening chapters of the Bible. you will see that God is clear we have dominion over animals.

THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE REVOLVES AROUND HUMANS

What about the things that the potential life can achive. I was almost aborted but my biological mom chose to put me up for adoption. I don't know why mothers don't go that route instead of just going straight for the abortion.

Instead of trying to put us into your shoes, why don't you put yourself into their shoes? Just like you seem to be attributing emotional trauma to women who go through with abortions, there's just as much anguish for women who go through a pregnancy and put the child up for adoption.

Abortion is not an ideal option in the least bit and in a perfect world would be unnecessary. Humans aren't perfect though: we're heavily flawed. I think the more sane pro-lifers would agree that a woman shouldn't be forced to reproduce in cases of rape or incest. That acknowledgement flies in the face of the moral argument about abortion that usually gets made.

That leaves us with an abortion discussion that deals with the realities of our society. You aren't going to eliminate all abortions by de-legalizing/criminalizing it. So what should the goal be? To limit the circumstances where a woman would opt for an abortion to as few as possible. What's one way to do that? Educating people so that they have as full a grasp of their actions and the subsequent consequences as they can. The Religious Right has led a culture war against this though and they have brought nothing to the table other than an outdated notion of abstinence education.

[xxlilnickxx91]

science has PROVEN that life begins at conception! life should be protected from conception to natural death! an embryo IS a person...science tells us this...killing children is not moral

[tambam]

An embryo is as alive as a sperm is. That doesn't make it a human being, and science has said no such thing.

[Smash Adams]

An embryo is as alive as a sperm is. That doesn't make it a human being, and science has said no such thing.
Science personally called him and told him that embryos are people, and then told him that Hitler invented stem cell research

[tambam]

Science personally called him and told him that embryos are people, and then told him that Hitler invented stem cell research

I think it was the Pope framing this Science person.

[Smash Adams]

I think it was the Pope framing this Science person.
and all this after science was nice enough to build him a snazzy popemobile

[J.C.]

science has PROVEN that life begins at conception!

No.

life should be protected from conception to natural death! an embryo IS a person...science tells us this...killing children is not moral

Science tells us you can freeze and unfreeze an embryo, something you can't do with an actual human.

[Big_Guy]

there are some serious lols in this thread.


I feel bad, but whenever I see someone quote the bible I fucking laugh my ass off.


also can someone introduce me to this Science person (aka Pat Robertson)?

[Big_Guy]

Besides, what gives you(a 16 year old male) the right to decide what does or doesn't come out of a woman's vagina?

God dammit, this should be an /thread right here. well said

[YumSmartieSmoke]

Well played sir, however anyone whose profile boasts " i love reading deep literature" is probably not someone I will choose to consult post gang-bang and bloated with triplets and the clap. P.S. Rush Limbaugh's latest musings on Obama's Presidential aptitude does not "deep literature" make.

[andrewshungry]

Abortion is murder. Thats all there is to it. You are taking someone else's life. If you think that abortion is ok then you think that murder is ok.

do you honestly see no difference between an actual living person being killed and someone getting an abortion? you sound like one of those people who went and killed doctors that perform abortions in order to "save lives"

[Broclee]

there are some serious lols in this thread.


I feel bad, but whenever I see someone quote the bible I fucking laugh my ass off.


also can someone introduce me to this Science person (aka Pat Robertson)?

I only pulled out Bible verses because someone told me to "reread the first few chapters" so that I would KNOW that humans reign supreme over animals.

I simply combated him by digging some more of his precious Bible verses that say things somewhat contrary to what he was trying to say.

[Siren Silently]

This and gay rights are two social issues where taking the anti side always ends hilariously (and in some Bible quotations).

[Mercy Medical]

While I do not agree with abortion on a personal level, I do not feel that it's something that our government should control. Yes, in a perfect world there would be no abortion, everyone would make the right decision, but it's not a perfect world. Conservative Christians should spend less time debating abortion and put more time and effort in preventing the unwanted pregnancies in the first place by educating kids about safe sex and not teaching strictly abstinence. They want a world without abortions, yet they are creating a world with more unwanted pregnancies. It doesn't really make sense on their part.

[and we whisper]

Okay, let's take a step back and think about what would happen if abortion was made illegal. I'm entirely pro-choice in this situation.

After having this procedure available for as long as we have, if it were taken away we'd revert back to the clothes-hangers and dark alley ways to get rid of unwanted babies. These people are have abortions safely now, they're not drinking until they lose their baby, or smoking up a lung with no regards to the fetus growing in themselves, their go somewhere that they no they can rid themselves of something instead of abusing it for nine months.

You can debate the action of it all you want but be realistic, it'd be unsafe to make abortions illegal.

[and we whisper]

While I do not agree with abortion on a personal level, I do not feel that it's something that our government should control. Yes, in a perfect world there would be no abortion, everyone would make the right decision, but it's not a perfect world. Conservative Christians should spend less time debating abortion and put more time and effort in preventing the unwanted pregnancies in the first place by educating kids about safe sex and not teaching strictly abstinence. They want a world without abortions, yet they are creating a world with more unwanted pregnancies. It doesn't really make sense on their part.
I was watching something last night where they were commenting on the recent research out that teen pregnancies are at an all time high and they were blaming it on the recent "abstinence only" programs in high schools.

[Mercy Medical]

I was watching something last night where they were commenting on the recent research out that teen pregnancies are at an all time high and they were blaming it on the recent "abstinence only" programs in high schools.
It's just a stupid, stupid concept. Now, while I (if I were a heterosexual) believe in waiting until marriage, but I also recognized the fact that not everyone is going to want to take that route. While it is the only way you can stay 100% STD and baby free, it's not reasonable to expect everyone to follow that. The fact that Republicans think it's a-ok to teach the entire youth of America to wait until marriage and then not teach them a think about having safe sex is ridiculous to me. You're essentially setting them up for failure because you're sending them out in this world completely ignorant.

[Love As Arson]

science has PROVEN that life begins at conception! life should be protected from conception to natural death! an embryo IS a person...science tells us this...killing children is not moral
Science doesn't say anything about morality.
Yea its a lot fucking easier to just kill someone if you don't want to deal with them. My professor gave me a 10 page paper to do today. I really didn't wanna do it so I just killed him. It was SOOOO much easier. Im glad I did it.
You need to learn that saying something doesn't make it right.

[Mercy Medical]

Yea its a lot fucking easier to just kill someone if you don't want to deal with them. My professor gave me a 10 page paper to do today. I really didn't wanna do it so I just killed him. It was SOOOO much easier. Im glad I did it.
This is some of the stupidest logic I have ever heard. You need to stop and think before you actually submit your posts.

[ReadyForAction]

I honestly don't see how someone can want to remove the option of abortion. Regardless of your feelings on the topic, don't you dare tell someone what they can or can't do. If you dont want your girlfriend or wife to get an abortion then fine, but dont impose your morals and beliefs as some sort of mass blanket that everyone should agree with

[ReadyForAction]

Also, what if the baby is a health risk and it's birth will result in the mother's death?

[RedWineSheets]

im so glad this hasnt been debated on this forum 219823432 times before!!

[s.t.e.v.e.n.]

im so glad this hasnt been debated on this forum 219823432 times before!!

Haha tell me about it

:popcorn:

[Mercy Medical]

im so glad this hasnt been debated on this forum 219823432 times before!!
As is the case with about 50% of the subjects that are started in this forum to begin with and will most likely be the case of the rest of eternity...

That doesn't make it any less enjoyable to debate for some.

[RedWineSheets]

As is the case with about 50% of the subjects that are started in this forum to begin with and will most likely be the case of the rest of eternity...

That doesn't make it any less enjoyable to debate for some.

i can understand that, but for me its redundant to start yet another thread to debate the morality of abortion. Nobody is going to gain anything or learn something new from a debate about abortion on ap.net. Who honestly is going to walk away from this thread with a new or changed opinion on the topic?

However some of the responses and argument are comical so it might be worthwhile.

[ohheroine]

I think abortion is great. Sometimes when I'm eating cheerios I pretend each little "O" is a fetus and when I put them into my mouth I'm aborting them. Delicious.


oh god that was beautiful hahaha

[Mercy Medical]

i can understand that, but for me its redundant to start yet another thread to debate the morality of abortion. Nobody is going to gain anything or learn something new from a debate about abortion on ap.net. Who honestly is going to walk away from this thread with a new or changed opinion on the topic?

However some of the responses and argument are comical so it might be worthwhile.
Hey, but it does give some great entertainment value to get me through my work day. lol

[livingalive626]

I think you tried to disgust people to the point where they would change their minds about abortion by using that video instead of one with just a bunch of cute, fully formed, already alive babies. I just counteracted that with what happens during labor. I'm not saying that shitting, vomiting, pissing, vaginal tearing, and big globs of bloody mucous plopping out of the vagina should make someone want to abort their baby. I'm just saying theres a bit of nasty with either options.

the problem is one ends with the ending of a life, the other (most of the time) does not:)

[Wildness774]

abortion is murder no question about it
thats the biggest reason i didnt support barack obama was his pro choice view on abortion
i just cant morally support human murder
to simply put it

[Wildness774]

And why do you think that?

because it does
i mean cmon even if it doesent have features or development yet doesent mean its not human
do u seriously think that it becomes human at a certain stage
and before that its just a blur of matter
thats bullshit

[White]

Who gives a flying fuck about a fetus? It doesn't contribute to anyone or anything. If the person who has the fetus INSIDE THEM doesn't even want it, then shut up.

And abortion is NOT murder, no question about it.
Murder is the killing of another HUMAN. Not the killing of a non-sentient lump of flesh.

I believe I already made a massive post about this is another abortion thread. I'mma go find it and post it.

[Wildness774]

Who gives a flying fuck about a fetus? It doesn't contribute to anyone or anything. If the person who has the fetus INSIDE THEM doesn't even want it, then shut up.

And abortion is NOT murder, no question about it.
Murder is the killing of another HUMAN. Not the killing of a non-sentient lump of flesh.

I believe I already made a massive post about this is another abortion thread. I'mma go find it and post it.

WRONG
so what if its a lump of flesh
its in the beggining stages of life
its still a human

and yes murder is killing another human
no matter which stage of life its at
i think abortion is fucked up

[Smash Adams]

I have a question is an omelet and a chicken sandwich the same thing?

[Wildness774]

i mean cmon obama even said himself that abortion is tragic
what does that tell ya

[TreyForest]

abortion is cool
and if your girlfriend doesnt want to do it just punch her in uterus or "accidently" push her down the stairs

[Mercy Medical]

i mean cmon obama even said himself that abortion is tragic
what does that tell ya
I'm sure that most of the pro-choice individuals in this country also think abortion is tragic and shouldn't be happening. The reason they are pro choice is not because they are okay with getting rid of a potential life, but they do not want the government to have a say in what they do with their body. You have to learn how to disconnect personal viewpoints and how much control the government should have over our lives.

[zion the lion]

the problem is one ends with the ending of a life, the other (most of the time) does not:)

Except its not alive yet...but sure

because it does
i mean cmon even if it doesent have features or development yet doesent mean its not human
do u seriously think that it becomes human at a certain stage
and before that its just a blur of matter
thats bullshit

Its an embryo, I dont consider embryos to be alive. They have the potential but thats it.
And why is it always the guys who are so passionate about it being murder?

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

here's a serious question:
if you are in favor of abortion rights, do you think child support is fair as well?

if the girl/mother doesnt want a baby, she can have it aborted without the father's permission.
but if the boy/father doesnt want the baby, it doesnt matter. he still has to provide for his unwanted kid for 18 years.

[ohheroine]

i mean cmon obama even said himself that abortion is tragic
what does that tell ya


he has to say that or his public approval will go down.
im sure he is down with abortion and if he didnt want a kid he would get rid of it.

[ohheroine]

here's a serious question:
if you are in favor of abortion rights, do you think child support is fair as well?

if the girl/mother doesnt want a baby, she can have it aborted without the father's permission.
but if the boy/father doesnt want the baby, it doesnt matter. he still has to provide for his unwanted kid for 18 years.

when fathers start having to birth children, then they can have more say over what money they give.

[starshine1763]

health risks- There is not enough pregnant mothers dying to use this



Fucking seriously? No no, we should make all abortions illegal because only some mothers might die from giving birth. The embryo is a life damn it and all life is precious! (....but those mothers giving birth don't count, they are expendable).

To all those people who condemn abortion in every instance, tell me what your ethics tell you about this scenario: A married mother of three has been trying to have another baby with her husband and gets pregnant. 3 months into her otherwise normal pregnancy, she finds out that she has an aggressive form of cancer that is still in the early stages. She has two options, treat the cancer with chemo and lose the baby but stay likely alive for her other three children, or carry through with the pregnancy and likely leave her husband widowed with 4 kids.

Please tell me the ethical reaction to this because I've posed this question to quite a number of pro-life in all instances people and none of them have been able to give me an answer.

[tambam]

If you want to get into health risks, then why don't we ban cars, alcohol, fatty foods, etc.? What a piss poor arguement. It feels like the pro-lifers in this thread are trying to grasp at any arguement they possibly can because everything else they've suggested to back them up has been shot down multiple times.

[Mitch]

Abortion arguments are always full of the most ridiculous analogies and logical fallacies.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

when fathers start having to birth children, then they can have more say over what money they give.
personally i'd rather spend 12 hours pushing out a baby than 18 years of working to pay for one i didn't want.
if a girl doesn't want to be a parent, she can decide.
if a boy doesn't want to be a parent, he can't.

[J.C.]

Everyone knows women are only pregnant for 12 hours.

[zion the lion]

personally i'd rather spend 12 hours pushing out a baby than 18 years of working to pay for one i didn't want.
if a girl doesn't want to be a parent, she can decide.
if a boy doesn't want to be a parent, he can't.

Wow like a guy is really all that helpless, he puss out and leave, plenty of men do it all the time. Its not always 12 hours, for my mom it was 18 hours and she almost died, for my friend it was almost 24 hours. The pain thats associated with giving birth is a little more than the pain of giving up a fraction of a fucking pay check.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Wow like a guy is really all that helpless, he puss out and leave, plenty of men do it all the time. Its not always 12 hours, for my mom it was 18 hours and she almost died, for my friend it was almost 24 hours. The pain thats associated with giving birth is a little more than the pain of giving up a fraction of a fucking pay check.
i was there when my son was born. it was a terrible delivery. my wife almost died. anyone that says its the best day of your life is lying.
that being said, the point i was making is that BOTH parents should have the choice to be a parent. having a kid goes beyond the delivery, it affects both individuals tremendously for the rest of their lives, so it should be a decision both individuals have to consent to.

[J.C.]

How would you rationally and practically be able to give both parents the choice?

[zion the lion]

i was there when my son was born. it was a terrible delivery. my wife almost died. anyone that says its the best day of your life is lying.
that being said, the point i was making is that BOTH parents should have the choice to be a parent. having a kid goes beyond the delivery, it affects both individuals tremendously for the rest of their lives, so it should be a decision both individuals have to consent to.

I was basing that whole thing off of experience. The guy still has the choice to leave if he wants to (making him a piece of shit) and usually when they leave its because they didnt care about the baby in the first place, and it doesnt change his life that much.

[Duexy]

because it does
i mean cmon even if it doesent have features or development yet doesent mean its not human
do u seriously think that it becomes human at a certain stage
and before that its just a blur of matter
thats bullshit

Yes?

[Burn That Shit]

I'm sure that most of the pro-choice individuals in this country also think abortion is tragic and shouldn't be happening. The reason they are pro choice is not because they are okay with getting rid of a potential life, but they do not want the government to have a say in what they do with their body. You have to learn how to disconnect personal viewpoints and how much control the government should have over our lives.

I agree with this right here.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

How would you rationally and practically be able to give both parents the choice?
1. require consent from both parties before an abortion is performed. (unless of course it was rape)
2. make child support voluntary. if a man wants and cares for his child, he'll provide for it.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

I was basing that whole thing off of experience. The guy still has the choice to leave if he wants to (making him a piece of shit) and usually when they leave its because they didnt care about the baby in the first place, and it doesnt change his life that much.
so if a girl doesn't want the baby, its fine, its her right.
if a guy doesn't want the baby, he's a piece of shit?

[zion the lion]

1. require consent from both parties before an abortion is performed. (unless of course it was rape)
2. make child support voluntary. if a man wants and cares for his child, he'll provide for it.

What the fuck! No not at all. If a man takes the time to stick his penis in someone he should take the time to pay up. Child support is there to help people who need the help. If a mother doesnt want him to pay child support then she wont file for it. But no way in hell should it be voluntary on the payers side. My dad has 11 kids (I'm the oldest) he's a deadbeat scumbag and I want the fucking money he owes me for never being around or helping out.

[zion the lion]

so if a girl doesn't want the baby, its fine, its her right.
if a guy doesn't want the baby, he's a piece of shit?

No if he leaves and doesnt pay up he's a piece of shit. Same goes for a woman who doesnt pay child support. And if someone doesnt want to pay, its not that hard to sign over their rights...seriously.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

What the fuck! No not at all. If a man takes the time to stick his penis in someone he should take the time to pay up. Child support is there to help people who need the help. If a mother doesnt want him to pay child support then she wont file for it. But no way in hell should it be voluntary on the payers side. My dad has 11 kids (I'm the oldest) he's a deadbeat scumbag and I want the fucking money he owes me for never being around or helping out.
so you're falling back on the whole idea that 'if you didn't want a kid, you shouldn't have had sex.' nice.
and just be glad it was your dad that didn't want you. you're still here.

[J.C.]

1. require consent from both the mother and father before an abortion is performed. (unless of course there was a rape)

lol

How is requiring both to opt for the abortion an equal say? It's automatically weighted towards the person who doesn't want the abortion. Their say goes.

2. make child support voluntary. if a man wants and cares for his child, he'll provide for it.

I would like to see major child support reform.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

lol

How is requiring both to opt for the abortion an equal say? It's automatically weighted towards the person who doesn't want the abortion. Their say goes.
whats the alternative? one person deciding the fate of someone else's child?

[zion the lion]

so you're falling back on the whole idea that 'if you didn't want a kid, you shouldn't have had sex.' nice.
and just be glad it was your dad that didn't want you. you're still here.

I has to be the smartest idea out there...and I came up with it. I'm for abortion but it should be rare. And sorry for kind of flipping out at you.

[J.C.]

whats the alternative? one person deciding the fate of someone else's child?

Are you blind or do you not recognize that your solution was also letting one person decide the fate of the (potential) child?

[Praetor]

So much stupidity on both sides the last few pages.

[zion the lion]

I think the biggest reason I'm even pro choice is because of safety, that should at least be considered by people who are against it.

The one reason (that I could think of) I would be against it is because there are plenty of people who use it as birth control. I know a girl who's had 6 abortions, at about the third one I got tired of going with her to the clinic and holding her hand while we waited. That kind of stuff pisses me off.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Are you blind or do you not recognize that your solution was also letting one person decide the fate of the (potential) child?
both parties are involved. why shouldn't both parties be involved in a joint decision?
the idea here is that parenthood only affects the mother. that simply isn't the case. so the decision to be or not to be a parent shouldn't solely rest with the mother.
and nothing's wrong with encouraging a little more personal responsibility towards sexuality. making abortions slightly harder to get would do that.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

So much stupidity on both sides the last few pages.
so why don't we hear the astounding wisdom you've aquired in your 15 years?

[J.C.]

both parties are involved. why shouldn't both parties be involved in a joint decision?

It's not a joint decision.

Two, how would you like for them to prove who the father is?

the idea here is that parenthood only affects the mother. that simply isn't the case. so the decision to be or not to be a parent shouldn't solely rest with the mother.

You haven't put forth a solution that satisfies all parties. What you've proposed is the taking away of a woman's right to choose(which they currently have) and made it so the man can override the decision the woman makes. That's what I mean by not being practical. It just doesn't deal with reality.

and nothing's wrong with encouraging a little more personal responsibility towards sexuality. making abortions slightly harder to get would do that.

Totally. By that logic, so would charging $54,000 for the procedure. Hell, if we just outlaw them altogether that'll do the trick.

Seriously, this is the kind of out-of-touch stuff that I can never fathom. A woman is going to find a way to get an abortion if that's the decision she's come to. Access isn't going to be the overriding factor in whether she wants to raise a child or not.

[Praetor]

so why don't we hear the astounding wisdom you've aquired in your 15 years?
lol the age argument. Ah. I can tell you this much: I may not be as well-aged as you but at least I'm smart enough to know that these statements and statements like it are ridiculous.

1. require consent from both parties before an abortion is performed. (unless of course it was rape)
2. make child support voluntary. if a man wants and cares for his child, he'll provide for it.
personally i'd rather spend 12 hours pushing out a baby than 18 years of working to pay for one i didn't want.
if a girl doesn't want to be a parent, she can decide.
if a boy doesn't want to be a parent, he can't.

But I can give credit where credit is due. I agree with your perception of a double standard.
so if a girl doesn't want the baby, its fine, its her right.
if a guy doesn't want the baby, he's a piece of shit?

[starshine1763]

Honestly, I think that the biggest obstacle facing people who are pro-life is going to be facing the reality of how on earth you regulate something like that.

Do you ban it except in certain circumstances?
If it's allowed in cases of rape, how does one prove that they've been raped by the time they discover they're pregnant? Would we see an increase in the number of claimed rapes, and how would that then make reporting actual rapes more difficult?
Do we allow for exceptions if the mother's life is in danger? If so, who decides how serious the danger has to be. Is it only if she's going to die if she doesn't abort? How about if she might die if she doesn't abort, would that count?
A 9 year old girl in Brazil was just ex-communicated by the church (so were her mother and her doctors) for having an abortion of twins after she was raped by her stepfather. The abortion was performed because doctors said that her 80 lb body could not physically handle carrying two children. Are you going to try to tell me that that abortion was wrong?
How about in cases of incest?
Or cases where the fetus has birth defects so severe that they have no chance of survival outside the womb. Would you make a woman carry that baby for 9 months knowing that it would die at birth?

I think Zion said my position best on it when she said that it should be safe, affordable and RARE. I'm 100% pro-choice, but that doesn't mean that I think abortions are a great thing.

[&IllBeTheReason]

The never ending argument.

[more heart]

The never ending argument.

Sadly it's true. Abortion is LEGAL people. Get the fuck over it.

[screamoutmyname]

stop encouraging this shit. seriously

[&IllBeTheReason]

Sadly it's true. Abortion is LEGAL people. Get the fuck over it.
It's like the Obama election thread all over again.

[hayleybug7092]

While I am strongly agailnst abortions, I do believe that it is better that we have them. Not that I personally like them, that would be a big NO! But seriously, before they were doing it in the clinics (clean, steril places that people do them without hurting the mother) they were done in alley ways with clothes hangers and stuff (...yuck...). I hate abortions. The people that use this as a method of birth control should go straight to the darkest pits of hell. But isnt it better for it to be done professionally than on your own with a clothes hanger? The (used to be) mom wont be in much pain in the clinic. At least she will be kept alive... (even though im not gonna post my views on what should happen to a mother who kills her baby) In all seriousness...I am very very strongly Pro-Life...but we're not gonna get rid of abortions any time soon...and at least its safer than it used to be.

[spriltsc]

i'm against it

[killerswells]

I'm for people being able to choose what happens to their own bodies. No one should be able to decide what happens to me, besides me.

If people want abortions, they should be allowed to have them. If they are against them, they shouldn't get one...

Pro life people need to grow the fuck up, just because something works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone.
Go find a pregnant rape victim, look her straight in the eyes, and tell her she shouldn't have an abortion because its wrong...

[Mercy Medical]

i was there when my son was born. it was a terrible delivery. my wife almost died. anyone that says its the best day of your life is lying.
that being said, the point i was making is that BOTH parents should have the choice to be a parent. having a kid goes beyond the delivery, it affects both individuals tremendously for the rest of their lives, so it should be a decision both individuals have to consent to.I agree with this 100%. Yes, the mother is the one that has to go through the ordeal of being pregnant and having the baby, BUT I do believe the father also has a large say in the matter. All this "well you don't have to deal with it, therefore you shouldn't tell me what to do" attitude of some women needs to stop. The baby is half his and the father's opinion should matter a lot in the decision. Now, that's not to say that a mother must be forced into having it simply because the father wants the baby, but I wish we lived in a world where all people could be responsible and rational about their decisions and actions.

[Duexy]

There is no equal say when there are only two parties voting on something with no compromise.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

There is no equal say when there are only two parties voting on something with no compromise.
here's an idea.
if you can't come to a reasonable, rational, responsible, mutual decision on something as important as parenthood with somebody, maybe you shouldn't be having sex with that person.
thats what i meant earlier about 'responsible sexuality'.

[xxlilnickxx91]

I think it was the Pope framing this Science person.

LOOK AT IT ONLNE STUPID. . .DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU GO SAYING WHAT SCIENTIST HAS PROVEN THIS...IT IS A TRUE FACT ..TAKE A BIOLOGY OR A THEOLOGY CLASS ASSHOLE...SCIENCE HAS PROVEN THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION DUMBASS...PEOPLE ARE SO DUMB

[zion the lion]

LOOK AT IT ONLNE STUPID. . .DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU GO SAYING WHAT SCIENTIST HAS PROVEN THIS...IT IS A TRUE FACT ..TAKE A BIOLOGY OR A THEOLOGY CLASS ASSHOLE...SCIENCE HAS PROVEN THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION DUMBASS...PEOPLE ARE SO DUMB

If I was stupid I would have thought you were serious, but since I'm not stupid I know that you were just joking. And it was hilarious. I laughed really hard. thanks for the comedic relief