question for those who voted obama

[lp57blackbeauty]

what the hell has he done so far to make you proud that you voted for him?

[CTMarshall]

oh snap.

[MattRM]

A lot. GTFO now please.

[industrialbelt]

ended torture

[lp57blackbeauty]

ended torture
for who? you?

i want concrete answers. i won't leave til i get some. then, i'll be more than happy to "gtfo."

[lp57blackbeauty]

A lot. GTFO now please.

is this how all the moderately liberal christians in dayton treat people who disagree with them?

[CTMarshall]

is this how all the moderately liberal christians in dayton treat people who disagree with them?

hmmm...you're just not a nice person, are you?

[Machu505]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.

[lauren<3s music]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.
:appl:

[samsara]

Ugh what a dumb thread but valid points.

[MattRM]

is this how all the moderately liberal christians in dayton treat people who disagree with them?
No, it's how we treat obnoxious douchebags who disagree with us in obnoxious douchebaggy ways.

[Burn That Shit]

ended torture

Closing Guantanamo /= ending torture

[Burn That Shit]

Timetable for Iraq doesn't mean shit considering he's still contracting with Blackwater.

[Machu505]

Timetable for Iraq doesn't mean shit considering he's still contracting with Blackwater.

50,000 troops > 142,000 troops.

But the Blackwater issue is by no means what I would like.

[anamericangod]

Ugh what a dumb thread but valid points.

Shut up.

Closing Guantanamo /= ending torture

You're right. That is the only thing at all that he has done in regards to torture. Absolutely correct.

Timetable for Iraq doesn't mean shit considering he's still contracting with Blackwater.

Lol.

[samsara]

Shut up.



I meant on the pro-Obama side you cunt biscuit.

[lp57blackbeauty]

No, it's how we treat obnoxious douchebags who disagree with us in obnoxious douchebaggy ways.

nice vocabulary, man.

in all seriousness, though, i never attacked obama, or you. just asked what good he's done. then you, as characteristic of most liberals, gave an abstract, undefined answer.

[lauren<3s music]

oh personal favorite - SCHIP expansion and the COBRA portion in the stimulus.

[lauren<3s music]

nice vocabulary, man.

in all seriousness, though, i never attacked obama, or you. just asked what good he's done. then you, as characteristic of most liberals, gave an abstract, undefined answer.
thats because "most liberals" try to be nice and not start shit with someone who clearly can not open a fucking newspaper.

[drewziph]

No, it's how we treat obnoxious douchebags who disagree with us in obnoxious douchebaggy ways.
douchebaggy.... the front runner for word of the year 2009.

[lp57blackbeauty]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.

a couple of these are good, i agree, such as opening the
records, but...

take the stimulus package for instance... there's so much wrong with that thing it's ridiculous.

[J.C.]

I haven't fully grasped the point of this thread yet. What argument are you trying to make? That he hasn't done anything? He's probably done as much as any President ever has in their first two months in office.

[lauren<3s music]

a couple of these are good, i agree, such as opening the
records, but...

take the stimulus package for instance... there's so much wrong with that thing it's ridiculous.
and obama clearly wrote the entire stimulus. those 535 other people had NOTHING to do with it.

[lp57blackbeauty]

thats because "most liberals" try to be nice and not start shit with someone who clearly can not open a fucking newspaper.

nice placement of the f-bomb! made you tons more convincing.

i do open a newspaper. i see what obama's done. i see that some people feel he's done good. i don't see why they feel this way. cough gm cough "stimulus package" cough lifted ban on stem cell research cough

[J.C.]

take the stimulus package for instance... there's so much wrong with that thing it's ridiculous.

Perhaps you should've thought out the idea for this thread a little better then. There are beneficial things people can point to within the stimulus package. Just because you have a disagreement doesn't mean Obama isn't doing anything or hasn't done something the people who voted for him appreciate.

[Machu505]

a couple of these are good, i agree, such as opening the
records, but...

take the stimulus package for instance... there's so much wrong with that thing it's ridiculous.

You mean the 2% that's earmarks? Because the other 98% in it that's going to infrastructure and other assorted shit is pretty good. Besides the tax cuts the Republican put in there, of course.

[J.C.]

nice placement of the f-bomb! made you tons more convincing.

i do open a newspaper. i see what obama's done. i see that some people feel he's done good. i don't see why they feel this way. cough gm cough "stimulus package" cough lifted ban on stem cell research cough

Since you sarcastically dismissed the end of torture like an asshat, how does a lift on the stem cell ban effect your life negatively?

[lp57blackbeauty]

I haven't fully grasped the point of this thread yet. What argument are you trying to make? That he hasn't done anything? He's probably done as much as any President ever has in their first two months in office.

oh he's done a ton. not gonna argue that.

he just hasn't done much for our country in terms of positive things. he hasn't brought about the "change we need."

[lp57blackbeauty]

I haven't fully grasped the point of this thread yet. What argument are you trying to make? That he hasn't done anything? He's probably done as much as any President ever has in their first two months in office.

oh he's done a ton. not gonna argue that.

he just hasn't done much for our country in terms of positive things. he hasn't brought about the "change we need."

[lp57blackbeauty]

I haven't fully grasped the point of this thread yet. What argument are you trying to make? That he hasn't done anything? He's probably done as much as any President ever has in their first two months in office.

oh he's done a ton. not gonna argue that.

he just hasn't done much for our country in terms of positive things. he hasn't brought about the "change we need."

[lp57blackbeauty]

I haven't fully grasped the point of this thread yet. What argument are you trying to make? That he hasn't done anything? He's probably done as much as any President ever has in their first two months in office.

oh he's done a ton. not gonna argue that.

he just hasn't done much for our country in terms of positive things. he hasn't brought about the "change we need."

[lauren<3s music]

nice placement of the f-bomb! made you tons more convincing.

i do open a newspaper. i see what obama's done. i see that some people feel he's done good. i don't see why they feel this way. cough gm cough "stimulus package" cough lifted ban on stem cell research cough
it was strategically placed. i am not nice, nor do i pretend to be with people try to make stupid points.

People feel as though he's "done good" because it's nice to see a President do something other than start wars and line the pockets of his friends. It's nice to see someone looking out for the middle class and children rather - generally nice makes people feel all warm and fuzzy.

If the government is going to loan these companies money they have to present a strategic business plan for change just as with any other company or investor. if they don't like the terms, don't take our money.

The stimulus package was a combined effort and in case you haven't noticed the continued contraction of our nation's GDP; an influx of capital into our economy is necessary. Take a look at the savings rates if you need more proof.

And yes, limiting science in the name of "morality" (from the same people who condemn people for loving someone just because they're the same sex) makes a whole lot of sense. Especially when that science could produce life saving cures to millions of diseases, not to mention save this country money in the long run on our expenditures in health care.

Really good convincing! So tell me this; what has Bush, McConnell, Cantor, Kyl or Boehner done to make you proud? oh and let me not forget Steele (you know he's going to whip the RNC into shape - so much so that he's spending their dollars to buy a Bowflex for his office)?

[drewziph]

woah quadruple vision

[lauren<3s music]

You mean the 2% that's earmarks? Because the other 98% in it that's going to infrastructure and other assorted shit is pretty good. Besides the tax cuts the Republican put in there, of course.
AND banned lobbyists from dealing with any agencies or administration staff in terms of the stimulus funding - to the point that the ACLU is getting involved.

but you know pork pork pork....

:wallbash:

[MattRM]

nice vocabulary, man.

in all seriousness, though, i never attacked obama, or you. just asked what good he's done. then you, as characteristic of most liberals, gave an abstract, undefined answer.
No, you never attacked Obama or me, but you the very way you worded your original post, "what the hell" has Obama done, already made it clear that you weren't here for a serious discussion, that you just wanted to try and mock people who voted for Obama. If you had made your post without sounding so arrogant and obnoxious, then I wouldn't have posted an arrogant and obnoxious reply.

[The Database]

I meant on the pro-Obama side you cunt biscuit.
http://quityourdayjob.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/pizza-the-hutt.jpg

[J.C.]

he just hasn't done much for our country in terms of positive things. he hasn't brought about the "change we need."

Since it's clear you didn't vote for Obama, what would McCain have done in his first two months in office that would've made you proud of voting for him?

[samsara]

http://quityourdayjob.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/pizza-the-hutt.jpg

....













lame

[Duexy]

oh he's done a ton. not gonna argue that.

he just hasn't done much for our country in terms of positive things. he hasn't brought about the "change we need."


Two months.

[Blakebear]

Two months.

was about to post those very words.

[lp57blackbeauty]

whoa lauren... way to just assume i am/was pro-bush.

i'm not.


in fact, i'm independent. i disagree with much of what bush did, but people have to realize that it was not purely his fault our country is so low (financially speaking). started with clinton, nafta, etc

[J.C.]

How many times did you vote for Bush/McCain? I'm looking for an honest answer, none of this 'new found Independent' crap. That's a cop out for when shit you wanted to see doesn't work.

[lauren<3s music]

whoa lauren... way to just assume i am/was pro-bush.

i'm not.


in fact, i'm independent. i disagree with much of what bush did, but people have to realize that it was not purely his fault our country is so low (financially speaking). started with clinton, nafta, etc
whoa that guy, way to assume that us vague liberals have nothing concrete to be proud of our president for.

our country is so low financially speaking?! started with clinton?

and p.s. independents can/have supported bush so that doesn't mean shit.

[lp57blackbeauty]

Since it's clear you didn't vote for Obama, what would McCain have done in his first two months in office that would've made you proud of voting for him?

didn't vote mccain bro

to who ever said obama's trying to help the middle class.... what makes you think that? and don't tell me "'cause he said so."

let me word my 2nd to last post different- he hasn't begun the "change we need"

[Machu505]

whoa that guy, way to assume that us vague liberals have nothing concrete to be proud of our president for.

our country is so low financially speaking?! started with clinton?

and p.s. independents can/have supported bush so that doesn't mean shit.

Admittedly Lauren, many of the deruglatory laws that have caused the current finacial crisis can be traced back to Clinton and things like the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.

[Burn That Shit]

Shut up.



You're right. That is the only thing at all that he has done in regards to torture. Absolutely correct.

"When President Obama declared flatly this week that "the United States will not torture" many people wrongly believed that he'd shut the practice down, when in fact he'd merely repositioned it.

Obama's Executive Order bans some -- not all -- US officials from torturing but it does not ban any of them, himself included, from sponsoring torture overseas."

There's your problem. Weren't you one of the users that read "End of America"? You should know better.



Lol.
Yeah, mercenaries that are above all laws of war is a really funny subject.

[Duexy]

didn't vote mccain bro

to who ever said obama's trying to help the middle class.... what makes you think that? and don't tell me "'cause he said so."

let me word my 2nd to last post different- he hasn't begun the "change i want"


fixed

[lauren<3s music]

didn't vote mccain bro

to who ever said obama's trying to help the middle class.... what makes you think that? and don't tell me "'cause he said so."

let me word my 2nd to last post different- he hasn't begun the "change we need"
Helping the Middle Class - See:

The President's Budget http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/
ARRA http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1.enr:

read those then get back to me and tell me how he's not.

[J.C.]

didn't vote mccain bro"

of course you didn't!

What would you like to see him doing that he currently isn't? I'm looking for specifics.

[lauren<3s music]

Admittedly Lauren, many of the deruglatory laws that have caused the current finacial crisis can be traced back to Clinton and things like the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.
started yes; expanded under a republican congress, yes; expanded by bush, yes.

And taking a look at GDP which is the way economists measure our "finances" saying we were "low" under Clinton is absurd.

[Machu505]

didn't vote mccain bro

to who ever said obama's trying to help the middle class.... what makes you think that? and don't tell me "'cause he said so."

let me word my 2nd to last post different- he hasn't begun the "change we need"

You know that middle-class tax cut he promised during the campaign? Yeah that was in the stimulus package.

See my first post to understand that part of the "change we need" has been delivered.

[lp57blackbeauty]

How many times did you vote for Bush/McCain? I'm looking for an honest answer, none of this 'new found Independent' crap. That's a cop out for when shit you wanted to see doesn't work.

what? were you there peeking over my shoulder when i voted?

in 2k4, i was not 18, but i definitely would have voted bush over kerry. kerry was an idiot.

this election, i went baldwin.

[lauren<3s music]

of course you didn't!

What would you like to see him doing that he currently isn't? I'm looking for specifics.
but but but he was "tough" on sebelius today...

[Machu505]

started yes; expanded under a republican congress, yes; expanded by bush, yes.

And taking a look at GDP which is the way economists measure our "finances" saying we were "low" under Clinton is absurd.

Agreed completely.

[Machu505]

what? were you there peeking over my shoulder when i voted?

in 2k4, i was not 18, but i definitely would have voted bush over kerry. kerry was an idiot.

this election, i went baldwin.

As in the Constitution Party?

[lauren<3s music]

Seven Principles of the Constitution Party are:
1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government, nor prohibited by the Constitution to the states, is reserved to the states or to the people;
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.


your "INDEPENDENT" party is a bunch of fucking hypocrites. keep posting, you're making my bad day enjoyable.

[J.C.]

in 2k4, i was not 18, but i definitely would have voted bush over kerry. kerry was an idiot.

If you were opposed to voting for an idiot, why would you have voted for Bush?

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Considering he's about undone all of the major decision Bush, that's exactly the "change we need" I voted for.

Two months.
lol. Post of the thread.

Admittedly Lauren, many of the deruglatory laws that have caused the current finacial crisis can be traced back to Clinton and things like the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.
True. But when you start going into how many decisions past administrations made that added into the crisis, you can trace it back to the Johnston administration if you want.

[coolwithme19]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.
this.

[coolwithme19]

....













lame
your icon is sooo full of win

[ihatecayte]

:popcorn:

[samsara]

your icon is sooo full of win

ha thanks

[Broclee]

What the hell is the point of this?

OP is obviously not going to be happy with anything anyone says because he's determined not to be.

[lp57blackbeauty]

good night. literally

i'm going to bed

[CTMarshall]

good night. literally

i'm going to bed
nighty night.

[Duexy]

good night. literally

i'm going to bed


nice

[loveisdead]

The thread should have ended after Machu's post.

[Duexy]

i have a crush on Manchu

[loveisdead]

i have a crush on Manchu
He probably really appreciates that.

[Duexy]

if he told me he didn't i'd stop.

[J.C.]

i have a crush on Manchu

http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/chris-hansen.jpg

[loveisdead]

http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/chris-hansen.jpg
Predictable.

[Duexy]

"We were just going to talk and maybe grab some BK, bro."

[J.C.]

Predictable.

you're predictable!

[loveisdead]

you're predictable!
That's my favorite comeback in the world.

[anamericangod]

"When President Obama declared flatly this week that "the United States will not torture" many people wrongly believed that he'd shut the practice down, when in fact he'd merely repositioned it.

Obama's Executive Order bans some -- not all -- US officials from torturing but it does not ban any of them, himself included, from sponsoring torture overseas."

There's your problem. Weren't you one of the users that read "End of America"? You should know better.




Yeah, mercenaries that are above all laws of war is a really funny subject.

No clue what you're talking about.

[J.C.]

you're my favorite comeback in the world!

[spansen]

politics & religion are two topics which should not be publicly discussed, because there's never going to be a consensus agreement. we're all stuck with what we believe in, and it's very hard to manipulate us into thinking otherwise.

[loveisdead]

politics & religion are two topics which should not be publicly discussed, because there's never going to be a consensus agreement. we're all stuck with what we believe in, and it's very hard to manipulate us into thinking otherwise.
I disagree. I think good debate from people with opposing viewpoints is the best way to learn about those views. This forum is a great place for it because we're lucky enough to have a decent amount of people who are very well informed.

[spansen]

I disagree. I think good debate from people with opposing viewpoints is the best way to learn about those views. This forum is a great place for it because we're lucky enough to have a decent amount of people who are very well informed.
i agree that debates can educate those who are too blind to seek outside of what they've been taught and grown used to-- but, it's a hot-button issue.. and it always will be.

[loveisdead]

i agree that debates can educate those who are too blind to seek outside of what they've been taught and grown used to-- but, it's a hot-button issue.. and it always will be.
And as long as it's organized and intelligent debate, it's a great way to learn. Hot button issue or not.

[briXinRhands]

i agree that debates can educate those who are too blind to seek outside of what they've been taught and grown used to-- but, it's a hot-button issue.. and it always will be.

Yes it will always be a hot-button issue, but just because we'll never reach a consensus doesn't mean it shouldn't be publicly discussed. Public discussion can have great benefits/results. What you dislike is the biased bickering from people who are not open to anything except what they believe in. I'm totally with you there, but there should always be public discussion especially with politics, because it directly influences our lives.

[briXinRhands]

And as long as it's organized and intelligent debate, it's a great way to learn. Hot button issue or not.

beat me to it lol

[loveisdead]

beat me to it lol
Haha, you said it better. Teamwork.

[Machu505]

i have a crush on Manchu

Who is this "manchu" you speak of?

[Burn That Shit]

No clue what you're talking about.

....

[xshady121]

politics & religion are two topics which should not be publicly discussed, because there's never going to be a consensus agreement. we're all stuck with what we believe in, and it's very hard to manipulate us into thinking otherwise.

I disagree. I think good debate from people with opposing viewpoints is the best way to learn about those views. This forum is a great place for it because we're lucky enough to have a decent amount of people who are very well informed.

While I agree with the latter in that you need to have an open forum for two opposing parties to share their views, it seems all too often there is a larger party that doesn't like what the smaller one has to say, and seeks to squash their right to say it. And we're all guilty of it to some extent or another, from the government in washington, to the media, to even the people running this website.

[batmannj]

In a discussion that starts like how this one did, it is hard for it to stay as a civil discussion. In politics I try to remember that we all have the nations interests at heart.

[jawstheme]

While I agree with the latter in that you need to have an open forum for two opposing parties to share their views, it seems all too often there is a larger party that doesn't like what the smaller one has to say, and seeks to squash their right to say it. And we're all guilty of it to some extent or another, from the government in washington, to the media, to even the people running this website.

Very true

[BryterJonah]

in fact, i'm independent.
You spelled immature wrong.

[BryterJonah]

Seven Principles of the Constitution Party are:
1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government, nor prohibited by the Constitution to the states, is reserved to the states or to the people;
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.


your "INDEPENDENT" party is a bunch of fucking hypocrites. keep posting, you're making my bad day enjoyable.
Did Fred Phelps go into politics?

[lauren<3s music]

Haha, you said it better. Teamwork.

makes the dream work.

[a speedo model]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.
Didn't he just lift the ban on government-funded stem-cell research?

[Machu505]

Didn't he just lift the ban on government-funded stem-cell research?

Yep.

[Adeniz19]

i'm curious to see what the OP would want Obama to do that he hasn't been doing already. it's obvious he has just made this thread to be a smart ass and hasn't contributed any counter points as to why we should not be proud of what Obama has accomplished in his 2 or so months of presidency.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

i'm curious to see what the OP would want Obama to do that he hasn't been doing already. it's obvious he has just made this thread to be a smart ass and hasn't contributed any counter points as to why we should not be proud of what Obama has accomplished in his 2 or so months of presidency.

I'm going to guess he wants:

- Ron Paul to overthrow Obama and take over the presidency and have him do the following:

- eliminate the Fed and the department of Education
- return to the Gold standard
- ask for all the bailout money back and revoke/veto the stimulous bill
- put a government spending freeze in place.
- bring all US military personel home


oh wait thats xshady

[Esrb99]

economy needs to be left alone, and we need to let banks and companies go bankrupt... that's why we have bankruptcy in the first place.

seriously... soemone tell me HOW spending this 'bailout' is gonna take care of our deficit.... cause I just don't get it at all.

[thesafeword]

Free market my hairy balls.

[x togepi x]

economy needs to be left alone, and we need to let banks and companies go bankrupt... that's why we have bankruptcy in the first place.

seriously... soemone tell me HOW spending this 'bailout' is gonna take care of our deficit.... cause I just don't get it at all.

so you're okay with tons of people losing their jobs?

[RAMROD85]

I know this bitter chick who started this is gone buuuut...

I think the most important thing Obama has done so far is bring the country back together after years of Bush tearing us apart... Obama was someone the masses could agree upon... even if it was for the wrong reasons...

The President of the US is a symbol for the entire world to see... I'm pretty sure most of the US population is much prouder to send Obama as that symbol over Bush.

Inspiring national pride in millions of people is a pretty big accomplishment for a man who has only been in office 2 months.

[thesafeword]

The bailout is necessary, but is being executed poorly, in my opinion.

[Esrb99]

so you're okay with tons of people losing their jobs?

only if you're okay with all our grandkids inheriting more debt than would be used to send them through college.

again, how does spending money help us? these businesses NEED to go bankrupt as far as I can tell.

The bailout is necessary, but is being executed poorly, in my opinion.

why is it necessary? for what reason do we need a 'bailout'

[briXinRhands]

only if you're okay with all our grandkids inheriting more debt than would be used to send them through college.

again, how does spending money help us? these businesses NEED to go bankrupt as far as I can tell.



why is it necessary? for what reason do we need a 'bailout'


Global financial stability: the plan is aimed at bringing calm to an extremely volatile global financial system. The world's richest nations, the Group of Seven (G7) say the package will, "protect the integrity of the international financial system".
Investor wellbeing: Investors worldwide need a shot of confidence. As billionaire investor Warren Buffett put it: the plan is "absolutely necessary" to help pull the financial system out of an "economic Pearl Harbour".
Global slowdown: All sides agree that we want to avoid recession in the world's biggest economy and the knock-on effect that would have for countries that rely on America for trade.
Job security: Safeguarding jobs across the economy and preventing bankruptcies that threaten American families' financial well-being
Credit freeze: Keeping funds flowing through the money markets so that financial institutions are happy to lend to each other, to businesses and to consumers is vital for any functioning economy.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

economy needs to be left alone, and we need to let banks and companies go bankrupt... that's why we have bankruptcy in the first place.

seriously... soemone tell me HOW spending this 'bailout' is gonna take care of our deficit.... cause I just don't get it at all.

only if you're okay with all our grandkids inheriting more debt than would be used to send them through college.

again, how does spending money help us? these businesses NEED to go bankrupt as far as I can tell.



why is it necessary? for what reason do we need a 'bailout'

Do you want to see the collaspe of the world's finanical markets? iF we let those banks fail thats what you will see.
there will be no credit lines - no one will borrow money, no one will spend money
Millions and millions of people will lose their life savings and jobs.
You would see the collaspe of the Euro and Dollar
You you think the Great Depression here in the US was bad this would be 10x worse and it would be world wide becasue of how all the the banks are 4x leveraged and interconnected. they all owe each other money.

And about the budget, government spending = economic stimulus. you are supposed to operate with a deficit when trying to get out of a recession. look up the ideas of john maynard keynes.



Global financial stability: the plan is aimed at bringing calm to an extremely volatile global financial system. The world's richest nations, the Group of Seven (G7) say the package will, "protect the integrity of the international financial system".
Investor wellbeing: Investors worldwide need a shot of confidence. As billionaire investor Warren Buffett put it: the plan is "absolutely necessary" to help pull the financial system out of an "economic Pearl Harbour".
Global slowdown: All sides agree that we want to avoid recession in the world's biggest economy and the knock-on effect that would have for countries that rely on America for trade.
Job security: Safeguarding jobs across the economy and preventing bankruptcies that threaten American families' financial well-being
Credit freeze: Keeping funds flowing through the money markets so that financial institutions are happy to lend to each other, to businesses and to consumers is vital for any functioning economy.

Thank you

[Jefferson Rank]

Global financial stability: the plan is aimed at bringing calm to an extremely volatile global financial system. The world's richest nations, the Group of Seven (G7) say the package will, "protect the integrity of the international financial system".
Investor wellbeing: Investors worldwide need a shot of confidence. As billionaire investor Warren Buffett put it: the plan is "absolutely necessary" to help pull the financial system out of an "economic Pearl Harbour".
Global slowdown: All sides agree that we want to avoid recession in the world's biggest economy and the knock-on effect that would have for countries that rely on America for trade.
Job security: Safeguarding jobs across the economy and preventing bankruptcies that threaten American families' financial well-being
Credit freeze: Keeping funds flowing through the money markets so that financial institutions are happy to lend to each other, to businesses and to consumers is vital for any functioning economy.

This.

And getting rid of Guantanimo was a nice little bonus Obama's given so far. Plus right now he's kind of tied down by all the Bush laws that he's trying to get rid of. I just read about one in the NY Times this morning; a law that made it okay to carry loaded, concealed weapons in national parks. With stupid laws like that taking his attention away from the big problems, he's a busy guy.

[Esrb99]

[QUOTE=Jefferson Rank;40023581 I just read about one in the NY Times this morning; a law that made it okay to carry loaded, concealed weapons in national parks. With stupid laws like that taking his attention away from the big problems, he's a busy guy.[/QUOTE]

uh, what's wrong with that law?

[xshady121]

This.

And getting rid of Guantanimo was a nice little bonus Obama's given so far. Plus right now he's kind of tied down by all the Bush laws that he's trying to get rid of. I just read about one in the NY Times this morning; a law that made it okay to carry loaded, concealed weapons in national parks. With stupid laws like that taking his attention away from the big problems, he's a busy guy.

Or he can worry about the big problems now and leave the little "stupid laws" for later. I don't think this "stupid law" as you put it is more imperitive than the economy.

[xshady121]

I'm going to guess he wants:

- Ron Paul to overthrow Obama and take over the presidency and have him do the following:

- eliminate the Fed and the department of Education
- return to the Gold standard
- ask for all the bailout money back and revoke/veto the stimulous bill
- put a government spending freeze in place.
- bring all US military personel home


oh wait thats xshady

I started reading this post and was like "Yes, I do want that. I want that and that and that"...

Then I saw your little addendum. I stand by it nonetheless.

edit:: I actually don't want Paul to overthrow Obama. I like what Newt said for once, that 2012 will probobly be the year of the third party if the Republicans don't shape up. I hope hes right. There is nothing I would like more than to see the Ron Pauls campaign for liberty gain traction.

[Mercy Medical]

so you're okay with tons of people losing their jobs?
It's unfortunate for them to lose their jobs, but I don't know if we should save failing companies for this reason and this reason only. It's obvious that by bailing them out they haven't really "learned" anything or had any "respect" for the fact that the tax payer is going to take a major hit for what's happening right now.

Oh, and I'm not really sure where I stand on the whole bailout issue, so don't take this as me not supporting the bailout 100%. I'm more or less just playing devil's advocate here.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I started reading this post and was like "Yes, I do want that. I want that and that and that"...

Then I saw your little addendum. I stand by it nonetheless.

edit:: I actually don't want Paul to overthrow Obama. I like what Newt said for once, that 2012 will probobly be the year of the third party if the Republicans don't shape up. I hope hes right. There is nothing I would like more than to see the Ron Pauls campaign for liberty gain traction.

haha see i got you pegged ha . the post was meant in jest btw - no harm intended.

I agree about there being a 3rd party, I hope it happens. There are far too many people whose voices are not heard becasue they have to fall within the 2 party line.

I like Ron Paul to a extent. Some of his ideas are just too out there for me and there are some that imo are just kinda unrealistic. But he should keep trying to get his voice heard. He is something new and different . the government needs more people like him willing to question the status quo

[xshady121]

haha see i got you pegged ha . the post was meant in jest btw - no harm intended.

I agree about there being a 3rd party, I hope it happens. There are far too many people whose voices are not heard becasue they have to fall within the 2 party line.

I like Ron Paul to a extent. Some of his ideas are just too out there for me and there are some that imo are just kinda unrealistic. But he should keep trying to get his voice heard. He is something new and different . the government needs more people like him willing to question the status quo

I know, I know. I like to think most of the AP Politics forum regulars have a good sense of humor and are great people.

Anyway, I agree with everything you've said above. I think true change will come when a third party brings different ideas to the populace. At the very least it will serve to humble the major parties who should realize they are doing nothing but going farther and farther to their ideological corners and polarizing a majority of americans with their ass backwards policies and stances.

[briXinRhands]

I think true change will come when a third party brings different ideas to the populace. At the very least it will serve to humble the major parties who should realize they are doing nothing but going farther and farther to their ideological corners and polarizing a majority of americans with their ass backwards policies and stances.

that would be so refreshing. it always seems like it just devolves into a right vs. left competition just for the sake of winning, rather than trying to help or improve the country.

[x togepi x]

only if you're okay with all our grandkids inheriting more debt than would be used to send them through college.

again, how does spending money help us? these businesses NEED to go bankrupt as far as I can tell.

You are insanely heartless.

[more heart]

lol at the OP

[Khaos]

what the hell has he done so far to make you proud that you voted for him?

Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
Closed gauntanemo

[crookedneighbor]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.

AMEN.

ben.

[MyNameIsRoss]

I'm deeply disappointed that he reinstated the Patriot Act. My 'Obama fever' is gone now, and I'm back to my cynicism.

[tambam]

He`s only been President for about 2 months. This thread is fucking pointless.

[MyNameIsRoss]

I like Ron Paul to a extent. Some of his ideas are just too out there for me and there are some that imo are just kinda unrealistic. But he should keep trying to get his voice heard. He is something new and different . the government needs more people like him willing to question the status quo

He is a libertarian. His ideas are for the most part just in the interest of your civil liberties. I don't know what is 'out there' about that..

[Machu505]

This too. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090404/pl_nm/us_cuba_usa_obama)

[aesopsphere]

Executive order closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Stimulus package.
Telling Rick Wagoner to gtfo.
Lilly Ledbetter Act.
Setting a timetable for Iraq.
Lifted the ban on stem-cell research.
No more "enemy combatants."
Opening access to the records of former Presidents.
Reaching out to Iran.

U'd figure during this economic crisis that if the government cared about us their agenda would have been...
fix the economy step 1
fix the economystep 2
fix the economy step 3
stimulus package
fix the economy step 4
fix the economy step 5
fix the eocnomy step 6

[Machu505]

U'd figure during this economic crisis that if the government cared about us their agenda would have been...
fix the economy step 1
fix the economystep 2
fix the economy step 3
stimulus package
fix the economy step 4
fix the economy step 5
fix the eocnomy step 6

I think the President can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[captivewear]

Everyone needs to back off Obama.
He has been in office for barely over 2 months!
Bush was still learning how to write the words "President Bush" and working on his signature for the first 4 months.
Obama is working his ass off. Lets give him a year or 2 before we see what he has done is good or bad.

[davidmest]

what the hell has he done so far to make you proud that you voted for him?

Obama is neither George W. Bush nor John McCain.

This is part of what he has done to make me proud that I voted for him.

[DropDeadSharkey]

What could of John Macain done better?

[xshady121]

I think the President can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Not according to this poster.

This.

And getting rid of Guantanimo was a nice little bonus Obama's given so far. Plus right now he's kind of tied down by all the Bush laws that he's trying to get rid of. I just read about one in the NY Times this morning; a law that made it okay to carry loaded, concealed weapons in national parks. With stupid laws like that taking his attention away from the big problems, he's a busy guy.

[Machu505]

Not according to this poster.

Well that poster isn't too intelligent, is he?

[lauren<3s music]

I think the President can walk and chew gum at the same time.
this one can.

the last one couldn't eat peanuts and talk. sadly

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

He is a libertarian. His ideas are for the most part just in the interest of your civil liberties. I don't know what is 'out there' about that..

I like that he is for civil liberties. His economic and fiscal policies are "out there." like:

- Repeal 16th Amendment and get rid of the income tax.
- Get rid of IRS
- Abolish Social Security,
- Close departments of Energy, Education & Homeland Security
- retrun to the gold standard
- abolish the Federal Reserve

[Mercy Medical]

this one can.

the last one couldn't eat peanuts and talk. sadly
Well, to be fair, eating peanuts and talking at the same time is just plain rude. Who talks with their mouth full?!

:-p

[Mercy Medical]

I like that he is for civil liberties. His economic and fiscal policies are "out there." like:

- Repeal 16th Amendment and get rid of the income tax.
- Get rid of IRS
- Abolish Social Security,
- Close departments of Energy, Education & Homeland Security
- retrun to the gold standard
- abolish the Federal Reserve

That just goes along with the Libertarian viewpoint of getting rid of the government entirely.

I like the way Libertarians think. It's very optimistic. It's just entirely too idealized to ever be truly possible. They just have this concept of live and let live and therefore we should get rid of government institutions and bureaucrats and that if everyone just lived by the concept of "do no harm" then all would be right with the world.

Unfortunately, not everyone is going to live by those standards and their idealized thoughts would just fail.

[MyNameIsRoss]

I like that he is for civil liberties. His economic and fiscal policies are "out there." like:

- Repeal 16th Amendment and get rid of the income tax.
- Get rid of IRS
- Abolish Social Security,
- Close departments of Energy, Education & Homeland Security
- retrun to the gold standard
- abolish the Federal Reserve



We should abolish the Fed, those fucking crooks.

[Kevtron650]

i didnt vote cuz im hardcore.

[lauren<3s music]

Well, to be fair, eating peanuts and talking at the same time is just plain rude. Who talks with their mouth full?!

:-p

Things that should be included in "how to be a president"

[J.C.]

it was a pretzel!!!!!!

[Machu505]

I like that he is for civil liberties. His economic and fiscal policies are "out there." like:

- Repeal 16th Amendment and get rid of the income tax.
- Get rid of IRS
- Abolish Social Security,
- Close departments of Energy, Education & Homeland Security
- retrun to the gold standard
- abolish the Federal Reserve


That just makes me lol.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

That just makes me lol.

haha i know.

I get the libitarian concepts of smaller government and less spending and paying down the deficit .which is fine and all until you realize that if they get rid of most of the taxes we pay, they would have no way to actually fund the government.

[Nowisnotthetime]

50,000 troops > 142,000 troops.

But the Blackwater issue is by no means what I would like.

It's actually 100k now and the conservative Wall Street Journal cheered this because it was Bush's exact draw-down timetable according to sources, he just wouldn't announce it.

Besides the hot-button issues i.e. stem cell, abortion, etc. When it comes to fiscal irresponsibility, bailing out corporations, and foreign policy, we essentially got a friendlier, better-speaking George Bush Jr. third term.

Very disappointed thus far.

[Fedaykin]

he's black
so i feel better about myself when i say
******

[apoemtothedead]

He correctly predicted the NCAA Basketball Champion.

[screamoutmyname]

he predicted unc winning march madness... great success!

He correctly predicted the NCAA Basketball Champion.

great minds think alike... i didn't see your response before posting hah

[Kurt Retenauer]

the question is, how much did he pay michigan state to blow the game?

(kidding)

[UnderMyDreams]

It's actually 100k now and the conservative Wall Street Journal cheered this because it was Bush's exact draw-down timetable according to sources, he just wouldn't announce it.

Besides the hot-button issues i.e. stem cell, abortion, etc. When it comes to fiscal irresponsibility, bailing out corporations, and foreign policy, we essentially got a friendlier, better-speaking George Bush Jr. third term.

Very disappointed thus far.

Seriously? Are you CLUELESS.

[lauren<3s music]

haha i know.

I get the libitarian concepts of smaller government and less spending and paying down the deficit .which is fine and all until you realize that if they get rid of most of the taxes we pay, they would have no way to actually fund the government.

Thank you. Its completely unsustainable.

[MyNameIsRoss]

haha i know.

I get the libitarian concepts of smaller government and less spending and paying down the deficit .which is fine and all until you realize that if they get rid of most of the taxes we pay, they would have no way to actually fund the government.


The federal income tax goes right into the pocket of rich bankers. I know most people would find that hard to believe. Up until the Fed, there was no Federal Income Tax. It actually goes against the Constitution, taxing labor. Ron Paul has a bill right now to audit the Federal Reserve, which has never been done before. They have never had to answer to anyone about what they do with their money. If the bill passes I think a lot of people will be pretty upset about the Fed.

[Mercy Medical]

The federal income tax goes right into the pocket of rich bankers. I know most people would find that hard to believe. Up until the Fed, there was no Federal Income Tax. It actually goes against the Constitution, taxing labor. Ron Paul has a bill right now to audit the Federal Reserve, which has never been done before. They have never had to answer to anyone about what they do with their money. If the bill passes I think a lot of people will be pretty upset about the Fed.While I don't really know how I feel about abolishing federal income tax or the Fed or any of that, I think the bolded part is a good thing. I think a lot of the aspects of our government don't have to answer to anyone and we all just believe in good faith that they are doing the right thing.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

The federal income tax goes right into the pocket of rich bankers. I know most people would find that hard to believe. Up until the Fed, there was no Federal Income Tax. It actually goes against the Constitution, taxing labor. Ron Paul has a bill right now to audit the Federal Reserve, which has never been done before. They have never had to answer to anyone about what they do with their money. If the bill passes I think a lot of people will be pretty upset about the Fed.

the income tax does not go to the Fed or "rich bankers". it goes to funding the whole government. it is how the government has money in the first place.

you tax dollars fund social service programs, the military , education, the president's salary, utilites and up keep for all government buildings, public parks, etc.....

same as your state taxes just on the federal level.

this is Government 101 here.

p.s. and i all for auditing the Fed. the Fed has NOTHING TO DO WITH TAXES.

[Nowisnotthetime]

Seriously? Are you CLUELESS.

Good response with facts and figures to back it up. This is the problem with this forum often times. People don't actually engage in any discussion.

[open mind]

Seriously? Are you CLUELESS.

if we're just going off of the 2 months obama has been president i think he's kind of got a point...i mean bush did run up massive deficits, the majority of changes in foreign policy that obama has implemented thus far have been simple name changes, and both haven't hesitated to bail out financial institutions while putting off a bailout for detroit.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I like that he is for civil liberties. His economic and fiscal policies are "out there." like:

- Repeal 16th Amendment and get rid of the income tax.
- Get rid of IRS
- Abolish Social Security,
- Close departments of Energy, Education & Homeland Security
- retrun to the gold standard
- abolish the Federal Reserve

His social policy also sucks and is quite antiquated. He is pro-life and from what I remember he is against gay marriage but for civil unions.

[lauren<3s music]

haha i know.

I get the libitarian concepts of smaller government and less spending and paying down the deficit .which is fine and all until you realize that if they get rid of most of the taxes we pay, they would have no way to actually fund the government.

Thank you. Its completely unsustainable.

[Duexy]

Thank you. Its completely unsustainable.


you should definitely say it once more!

[Nick Gerli]

I like the idea of Libertarianism, however it really isn't practical, especially in times like these. Government stimulus and quantitative easing is a necessity during a recession.

[caress me down]

McCain lost. Grow a pair and get over it

[suicidalkitten]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...

[samsara]

you live in texas therefore your opinion dosent matter.

[GuitarR0cker1]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...
I consider pushing and signing a 700 hundred billion dollar stimulus package doing "shit".

[HereItGoes182]

what the hell has he done so far to make you proud that you voted for him?


Check this out when you get a chance.

Campaign promises - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

Though alot of them are no action, quite a few have been started and are making progress throughout his tenure in office so far.



EDIT: And he's only been in office for less than 4 months. Conservatives had EIGHT years of office and look where we are today. You are in no position right now to make an argument. Republicans had their chance. Now its our turn.

[Broclee]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...
You are so wrong.

[Duexy]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...


live up to that name and kill yourself.

[Machu505]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...

Stickin' it to the man.

[Mercy Medical]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...
If you're going to make statements like that, in order to sound at least half way intelligent you will need to provide reasoning for such statements.

Right now you just sound like an idiot.

[zion the lion]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...

I can only assume youre joking.

[more heart]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...

YOU MADE ME LOL!!!

[oldwirehands]

For the record, I believe Obama has been successful so far because he has done something that a lot of recent presidents did not do. He's actually doing what he said he was going to do (so far). And I'm not a libertarian. I think the liberal party today is a joke.

Obama is neither George W. Bush nor John McCain.

This is part of what he has done to make me proud that I voted for him.

Worthless answer.

haha i know.

I get the libitarian concepts of smaller government and less spending and paying down the deficit .which is fine and all until you realize that if they get rid of most of the taxes we pay, they would have no way to actually fund the government.

I don't understand that argument. What about state taxes? The country had to make money somehow before the 16th amendment.

It's actually 100k now and the conservative Wall Street Journal cheered this because it was Bush's exact draw-down timetable according to sources, he just wouldn't announce it.

Besides the hot-button issues i.e. stem cell, abortion, etc. When it comes to fiscal irresponsibility, bailing out corporations, and foreign policy, we essentially got a friendlier, better-speaking George Bush Jr. third term.

Very disappointed thus far.



the income tax does not go to the Fed or "rich bankers". it goes to funding the whole government. it is how the government has money in the first place.

you tax dollars fund social service programs, the military, education, the president's salary, utilites and up keep for all government buildings, public parks, etc.....

same as your state taxes just on the federal level.

this is Government 101 here.

p.s. and i all for auditing the Fed. the Fed has NOTHING TO DO WITH TAXES.

Mostly.

I consider pushing and signing a 700 hundred billion dollar stimulus package doing "shit".

Or causing shit.

[schmalz]

wow obama isnt doing shit for any of us.
just thought id put that out there...

Actually he has helped me out. I got laid off working for some shithead private company in South Carolina that was ran by selfish conservatives. I contacted government jobs and got a job offer from a government contractor that was hiring due to the stimulus package!! So yes, Obama and his stimulus has helped.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I don't understand that argument. What about state taxes? The country had to make money somehow before the 16th amendment.



uh state taxes dont pay for the federal government they pay for the state government. no federal income taxes ; no federal government funding.

[Jefferson Rank]

High-Speed Train ftw.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Or causing shit.
Well I think it most of it was very beneficial towards the country. I would be interested to see why you think it caused shit though.

[oneswiftmotion]

Obama recently opened up relations to a threatening communist country with whom we have a history of a lack of relations. I am liking Obama's "New Beginning" with Cuba.

[oldwirehands]

uh state taxes dont pay for the federal government they pay for the state government. no federal income taxes ; no federal government funding.

My main point was that the federal government did get funding before the ratification of the 16th amendment. Its not absolutely necessary.

Well I think it most of it was very beneficial towards the country. I would be interested to see why you think it caused shit though.

Beneficial in the short term. Lets say you were in this situation yourself. If you were trillions of dollars in debt, would you be spend trillions to get out of debt? It doesn't work. This has already been done before and has completely failed. The Fed not too long ago pumped a trillion dollars in the economy. One trillion. Inflation is inevitable and if it continues, we'll have a dollar that will be worth next to nothing. $100 for a loaf of bread is something I don't look forward to and hope that situation is prevented.

[loveisdead]

My main point was that the federal government did get funding before the ratification of the 16th amendment. Its not absolutely necessary.



Beneficial in the short term. Lets say you were in this situation yourself. If you were trillions of dollars in debt, would you be spend trillions to get out of debt? It doesn't work. This has already been done before and has completely failed. The Fed not too long ago pumped a trillion dollars in the economy. One trillion. Inflation is inevitable and if it continues, we'll have a dollar that will be worth next to nothing. $100 for a loaf of bread is something I don't look forward to and hope that situation is prevented.
What's your alternative solution? Sit on his hands and pray?

[zion the lion]

Beneficial in the short term. Lets say you were in this situation yourself. If you were trillions of dollars in debt, would you be spend trillions to get out of debt? It doesn't work. This has already been done before and has completely failed. The Fed not too long ago pumped a trillion dollars in the economy. One trillion. Inflation is inevitable and if it continues, we'll have a dollar that will be worth next to nothing. $100 for a loaf of bread is something I don't look forward to and hope that situation is prevented.

What would you do instead? Cut taxes?

[oldwirehands]

Sorry for the weak answers. I'm really in no mood for debating right now (hungover)

What's your alternative solution? Sit on his hands and pray?

Well, when an idea fails, it usually best to try something else. Am I right? There are plenty of major economists that have suggested different strategies to handle the crisis.

What would you do instead? Cut taxes?

That could be a start.

[loveisdead]

Sorry for the weak answers. I'm really in no mood for debating right now (hungover)



Well, when an idea fails, it usually best to try something else. Am I right? There are plenty of major economists that have suggested different strategies to handle the crisis.



That could be a start.
I'm sort of in the same boat so I understand haha.

It hasn't failed. It's going to take time for that money to show big signs of success. The bank bailouts seem to be have a great impact, the latest earnings reports show that as do the markets.

A lot of what I've read is that more money needs to be injected, not less.

[zion the lion]

Sorry for the weak answers. I'm really in no mood for debating right now (hungover)



Well, when an idea fails, it usually best to try something else. Am I right? There are plenty of major economists that have suggested different strategies to handle the crisis.



That could be a start.

What could possibly benefit from taxes being cut?

[Siren Silently]

Seriously what? If you cut taxes enough to get us out of this economic mess then what really benefits?

I believe you just answered your own question.

[Siren Silently]

What could possibly benefit from taxes being cut?

Seriously?

[zion the lion]

Seriously?

Seriously what? If you cut taxes enough to get us out of this economic mess then what really benefits?

[zion the lion]

I believe you just answered your own question.

I'm not all the way sober so this might not com out right but really think about it in the long term it would fuck everything up. What good would being out of the economic mess do if we dont have any fire fighters or cops, if all the schools are over corwded and falling apart? There would be a shit load more homeless people and abandoned children if it werent for welfare and child support (seriously I know people who give their kids up when they cant support them).

[Siren Silently]

I'm not all the way sober so this might not com out right but really think about it in the long term it would fuck everything up. What good would being out of the economic mess do if we dont have any fire fighters or cops, if all the schools are over corwded and falling apart? There would be a shit load more homeless people and abandoned children if it werent for welfare and child support (seriously I know people who give their kids up when they cant support them).

In a good economy, I very much doubt any of those scenarios will happen. You also vastly overestimate the Government's ability to take care of these issues. Lastly, though I don't agree with this point of view, it is difficult to care about other people (especially those who are a drain on taxpayer dollars such as welfare queens and those that refuse the opportunity to work) when it comes directly out of your paycheck.

[saysmydoctor]

Seriously what? If you cut taxes enough to get us out of this economic mess then what really benefits?
It's dependent on how you cut taxes.

[zion the lion]

In a good economy, I very much doubt any of those scenarios will happen. You also vastly overestimate the Government's ability to take care of these issues. Lastly, though I don't agree with this point of view, it is difficult to care about other people (especially those who are a drain on taxpayer dollars such as welfare queens and those that refuse the opportunity to work) when it comes directly out of your paycheck.

I was trying to say it leads to a slippery slope, you cut taxes and then later people try to cut taxes even more, and then later blah blah blah. But I was on welfare for 8 years (we were homeless for a little while) my mom worked 3 jobs a day just to pay the bills I can tell you a lot of those people arent "welfare queens" who refuse an opprotunity to work. Stop being selfish.

[Siren Silently]

I was trying to say it leads to a slippery slope, you cut taxes and then later people try to cut taxes even more, and then later blah blah blah. But I was on welfare for 8 years (we were homeless for a little while) my mom worked 3 jobs a day just to pay the bills I can tell you a lot of those people arent "welfare queens" who refuse an opprotunity to work. Stop being selfish.

That doesn't even make sense.

Plus, I didn't even say everyone on welfare is a worthless drain on society, I cited welfare queens as an example. Further more, I even said I didn't exactly 'agree' with the ideology yet you choose to attack me for being 'selfish'; earned money is earned money, regardless of what socioeconomic bracket you belong to. Lastly, maybe we should fund more money into public education if your reading comprehension is really this poor.

[zion the lion]

That doesn't even make sense.

Plus, I didn't even say everyone on welfare is a worthless drain on society, I cited welfare queens as an example. Further more, I even said I didn't exactly 'agree' with the ideology yet you choose to attack me for being 'selfish'; earned money is earned money, regardless of what socioeconomic bracket you belong to. Lastly, maybe we should fund more money into public education if your reading comprehension is really this poor.

What part of slippery slope arent you understanding?

You said you find it hard it hard to care about those people, I was just saying most of them arent welfare queens. Again what part of not sober arent you understanding?

[SAY WHAT]

made me somewhat less ashamed to say i'm an american abroad?

oh wait, by posing this question, you probably disagree with his descision to stop cavalierly torturing brown people.

[boykosaurus]

He's kept it real.

[Bruised26]

Another question for Obama voters- any thoughts on his plan to make a "civilian service union" and make everyone ages 18-25 give up 3 months of their life to the government for basic military training? Since when does the gov get the right to control that much of citizens lives?
If you arent familiar with this topic, i suggest you look it up. I found it very interesting.

[Duexy]

Another question for Obama voters- any thoughts on his plan to make a "civilian service union" and make everyone ages 18-25 give up 3 months of their life to the government for basic military training? Since when does the gov get the right to control that much of citizens lives?
If you arent familiar with this topic, i suggest you look it up. I found it very interesting.

its voluntary.

[Bruised26]

its voluntary.

In an interview with Rahm Emanuel he said the contrary...

[saysmydoctor]

No he didn't.

[shit stroll]

In an interview with Rahm Emanuel he said the contrary...
link?

[Jefferson Rank]

Yeah... That doesn't sound true.

[xshady121]

No he didn't.


Yes, he did.

[Adeniz19]

does someone have a link to that that supports either claim? voluntary/or not

[xshady121]

does someone have a link to that that supports either claim? voluntary/or not

HtDSwyCPEsQ

Ignore the youtube thought bubbles popping up during the video, I didn't feel like searching for one without it.

[Mercy Medical]

The whole idea of "mandatory" service is absurd to me. It takes the whole volunteering aspect out of volunteerism. I understand that they want America's youth to get involved and be more pro-active, but forcing them into it isn't a very good solution.

And thank fucking God I am not a teenager these days. DO NOT WANT.

[saysmydoctor]

Yes, he did.

HtDSwyCPEsQ

Ignore the youtube thought bubbles popping up during the video, I didn't feel like searching for one without it.
Thanks for providing video proving my point. That is Emanuel's plan, not Obama's.

[Adeniz19]

that video is from August of 2006

[zion the lion]

Other countries have this, whats the problem?

[xshady121]

Thanks for providing video proving my point. That is Emanuel's plan, not Obama's.

My bad. Thought You were refering to Rahm with your pronoun usage.

[saysmydoctor]

Another question for Obama voters- any thoughts on his plan to make a "civilian service union" and make everyone ages 18-25 give up 3 months of their life to the government for basic military training? Since when does the gov get the right to control that much of citizens lives?
If you arent familiar with this topic, i suggest you look it up. I found it very interesting.

My bad. Thought You were refering to Rahm with your pronoun usage.
...

[The Summer Ends]

butts

[NickLopez]

Everything I can find is an audio clip from something he said in 2006.(edit: yeah, that clip up there.) I can't find anything from a legitimate news source, only blogs or random websites, and I find those to be impossibly frustrating and biased.

[Mitch]

What a horrible idea, wtf Rahm.

[NickLopez]

As far as "mandatory service" or whatever goes, I mean--3 months is nearly nothing. I would be opposed ideologically to making it mandatory, but if the Obama administration proposed a plan where you do a few months or years of service in exchange for certain benefits, I'd be a proponent.

[ssion1984]

Just because you get a different president, it doesn't mean that the world changes in one day. The "change we need".... change is not an immediate happening - you can't force it to happen. He isn't Jesus or Lenin. haha Racism is still alive, war is still happening all over the globe, and people are still tortured for being gay. At least he has some progressive elements, but considering I am upset with the capitalist world [ohohoho] I respect him but still think that the US has a long way to go. Point of all this: Obama is trying to instigate change in the political sphere, but ultimately it's up to individuals to make a difference.

[Jordachejeans91]

i hate people that say he hasnt done much yet, he's been in office for a few months....its gona take a few years to turn around this shit economy, so chill out dude

[Jordachejeans91]

Just because you get a different president, it doesn't mean that the world changes in one day. The "change we need".... change is not an immediate happening - you can't force it to happen. He isn't Jesus or Lenin. haha Racism is still alive, war is still happening all over the globe, and people are still tortured for being gay. At least he has some progressive elements, but considering I am upset with the capitalist world [ohohoho] I respect him but still think that the US has a long way to go. Point of all this: Obama is trying to instigate change in the political sphere, but ultimately it's up to individuals to make a difference.


Damn you beat me to what i was going to say, and you said it 100 times better haha

[Adeniz19]

As far as "mandatory service" or whatever goes, I mean--3 months is nearly nothing. I would be opposed ideologically to making it mandatory, but if the Obama administration proposed a plan where you do a few months or years of service in exchange for certain benefits, I'd be a proponent.
yea, i've heard obama talk about something like this in exchange for college tax credits, which i think is a really good idea.

[NickLopez]

yea, i've heard obama talk about something like this in exchange for college tax credits, which i think is a really good idea.
That's what I was kind of referring to. I think it's really important that young people stay actively engaged in government and the world (I feel my generation is doing a really poor job of this), and loans or other benefits is great incentive.

[ssion1984]

Damn you beat me to what i was going to say, and you said it 100 times better haha

I was worried there for a moment. I was expecting some retaliation, not agreement. =]

[Bruised26]

I have no issue with the civil service being voluntary** (typo). But if he makes it mandatory, Ill leave the country. Im not giving up 3 months of MY life to the government.

[saysmydoctor]

I have no issue with the civil service being involuntary. But if he makes it mandatory, Ill leave the country. Im not giving up 3 months of MY life to the government.
It was never Obama's plan so it's a moot point so stop worrying and making a nonissue an issue.

[zion the lion]

I have no issue with the civil service being involuntary. But if he makes it mandatory, Ill leave the country. Im not giving up 3 months of MY life to the government.

A whole entire 3 months, a whole season of a year out of the 70 something you'll most likely have wow how horrible is that, not to mention this whole thing isnt real, this isnt a plan so why worry, and why be a bitch about it and leave if it happens? Seriously if it does happen why not man up and do the 3 whole entire months of a season of a year, instead of filing all the paper work and studying that comes with getting citizenship for a different country.

by the way what do you think involuntary means?

[Mercy Medical]

A whole entire 3 months, a whole season of a year out of the 70 something you'll most likely have wow how horrible is that, not to mention this whole thing isnt real, this isnt a plan so why worry, and why be a bitch about it and leave if it happens? Seriously if it does happen why not man up and do the 3 whole entire months of a season of a year, instead of filing all the paper work and studying that comes with getting citizenship for a different country.

by the way what do you think involuntary means?
Do you honestly think he was being serious with his remark...?

3 months is a long time in the scheme of RIGHT NOW. We don't know what it feels like to be 70 and look back on how long your life has been. The fact is the government should not force people into doing something like that. It completely defeats the point they might be trying to make.

And I think you missed the "but IF he makes it..." part after the involuntary statement.

[zion the lion]

Do you honestly think he was being serious with his remark...?

3 months is a long time in the scheme of RIGHT NOW. We don't know what it feels like to be 70 and look back on how long your life has been. The fact is the government should not force people into doing something like that. It completely defeats the point they might be trying to make.

And I think you missed the "but IF he makes it..." part after the involuntary statement.

I didnt really care if he was serious, I was just using him because I get tired of people bitching about this non issue. It gets annoying after a while. There are other countries with this and I dont really see those people complaining about it at all. Three months isnt that long, its a quater of a year its a blip, I wouldnt mind doing it if I had to. And no I didnt miss the if.

[Mercy Medical]

I didnt really care if he was serious, I was just using him because I get tired of people bitching about this non issue. It gets annoying after a while. There are other countries with this and I dont really see those people complaining about it at all. Three months isnt that long, its a quater of a year its a blip, I wouldnt mind doing it if I had to. And no I didnt miss the if.
He was voicing his opinion on the matter, it's an open forum and I think you made yourself look like a bigger ass then he did.

Just because you wouldn't mind doing it, doesn't mean that everyone else wouldn't mind it either.

He obviously knows what involuntary means as he stated that in the very first sentence....so your asking that question was pointless and stupid.

[Bruised26]

A whole entire 3 months, a whole season of a year out of the 70 something you'll most likely have wow how horrible is that, not to mention this whole thing isnt real, this isnt a plan so why worry, and why be a bitch about it and leave if it happens? Seriously if it does happen why not man up and do the 3 whole entire months of a season of a year, instead of filing all the paper work and studying that comes with getting citizenship for a different country.

by the way what do you think involuntary means?

Wow I didnt expect you all to blow up over this. I meant the leaving the country part as a joke. Lets all just chill out... The government cannot totally control what we do with our time, and 3 months is actually pretty long. You only have one life, do what you want with it; not what the government wants you to do with it. But its still up in the air if this is even happening or not, Im reading some sources saying it is, and some saying it isnt, so Im just going to forget about it.

[zion the lion]

He was voicing his opinion on the matter, it's an open forum and I think you made yourself look like a bigger ass then he did.

Just because you wouldn't mind doing it, doesn't mean that everyone else wouldn't mind it either.

He obviously knows what involuntary means as he stated that in the very first sentence....so your asking that question was pointless and stupid.

If I looked like an ass then you didnt have to be a bitch about it, I was just saying how pointless it would be to leave the country to escape 3 months of basic training when there's a lot of work that goes into moving to a different country.

If you didnt like what I said you really didnt have to say anything about it.

[shit stroll]

Wow I didnt expect you all to blow up over this. I meant the leaving the country part as a joke. Lets all just chill out... The government cannot totally control what we do with our time, and 3 months is actually pretty long. You only have one life, do what you want with it; not what the government wants you to do with it. But its still up in the air if this is even happening or not, Im reading some sources saying it is, and some saying it isnt, so Im just going to forget about it.
do you have a link to these "sources?"

[Mercy Medical]

If I looked like an ass then you didnt have to be a bitch about it, I was just saying how pointless it would be to leave the country to escape 3 months of basic training when there's a lot of work that goes into moving to a different country.

If you didnt like what I said you really didnt have to say anything about it.
I think you should read that last sentence and apply it to yourself and apply it to your previous responses to him.

This is a forum, EVERYONE says something if they don't like what that person said. I would hope that after 1,000 posts, you would have gotten that by now.

[Bruised26]

do you have a link to these "sources?"

local news channels, radio, etc. Havent read much about it on the internet.

[zion the lion]

Wow I didnt expect you all to blow up over this. I meant the leaving the country part as a joke. Lets all just chill out... The government cannot totally control what we do with our time, and 3 months is actually pretty long. You only have one life, do what you want with it; not what the government wants you to do with it. But its still up in the air if this is even happening or not, Im reading some sources saying it is, and some saying it isnt, so Im just going to forget about it.

I wasnt even angry about it (I was angry about something else), the way I worded it sounds agressive but I was just trying to say 3 months isnt that long in the giant scheme of things. I really dont think its going to happen, at least not during his term.

[Bruised26]

If you didnt like what I said you really didnt have to say anything about it.

BAHAHAHA!!! you are one to talk!!!

[zion the lion]

BAHAHAHA!!! you are one to talk!!!

You really didnt get the joke did you?

[Adeniz19]

i really dont see what's wrong with using 3 months of your life towards civil service. "civil service" doesnt exactly mean he wants everyone to go to boot camp, or even join the military.

[zion the lion]

i really dont see what's wrong with using 3 months of your life towards civil service. "civil service" doesnt exactly mean he wants everyone to go to boot camp, or even join the military.

civil service sounds like working at an animal shelter, I dont think thats what he means though, but if he did mean the animal thing then I would be pissed.

[Mercy Medical]

I'm not against putting three months of your life towards civil service if that's what you choose to do. I'm opposed to the government forcing individuals into such a thing as it completely defeats the purpose of volunteering.

[GeeBee]

I'm not against putting three months of your life towards civil service if that's what you choose to do. I'm opposed to the government forcing individuals into such a thing as it completely defeats the purpose of volunteering.

No one's forcing anyone. It's going to be a pre-condition to receiving federal aid for college. Judging what I've seen you say in other threads about the costs of going to school, I think it's a damn fine program.

[kdefrisc]

whoa he hasn't been in office that long...

[theguy77]

I meant on the pro-Obama side you cunt biscuit.

hahahahahahhaa

[Mercy Medical]

No one's forcing anyone. It's going to be a pre-condition to receiving federal aid for college. Judging what I've seen you say in other threads about the costs of going to school, I think it's a damn fine program.
I know, I'm just saying what my opinion would be if it wasn't a choice, if it was a requirement for all citizens. If it's a choice, then that's fantastic, but I would definitely be against a government mandated program that forced kids into that scenario.

[GeeBee]

I know, I'm just saying what my opinion would be if it wasn't a choice, if it was a requirement for all citizens. If it's a choice, then that's fantastic, but I would definitely be against a government mandated program that forced kids into that scenario.

True that.

[thursday727]

He stopped the DEA from raiding medical marijuana dispensaries.

[Praetor]

He stopped the DEA from raiding medical marijuana dispensaries.
Win.

[TDOGG!(()]

what the hell has he done so far to make you proud that you voted for him?


haha i just love how much this guy got owned after he posted this thread...

it makes me giggle

[TheMisanthrope]

what the hell has he done so far to make you proud that you voted for him?

gave me a good tax return check...

[zion the lion]

All I'll say is that my mom got an extra check from the government people because of Obama, and thank god because living off of 800 dollars a month gets hard.

[Duexy]

fuck obama, where are my reparations

[TDOGG!(()]

fuck obama, where are my reparations


go fuck yourself

[zion the lion]

I always thought the whole idea of reparations was funny. And by funny I mean dumb.

[GeeBee]

I always thought the whole idea of reparations was funny. And by funny I mean dumb.

I agree for the most part...but I can't help but wonder how many people are still stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty that began with their ancestors who were wronged. But on the other hand, you have to play the hand you're dealt, not worry about "what might have been".

[zion the lion]

I agree for the most part...but I can't help but wonder how many people are still stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty that began with their ancestors who were wronged. But on the other hand, you have to play the hand you're dealt, not worry about "what might have been".

My family has been in poverty since slavery ended, and as much as it sucks I really dont think reparations would do anything to help. There are so many people who's ancestors were slaves (a lot who dont even know it) that it would be hard to even try to right that wrong. Plus it wouldnt make the situation any better, it wouldnt erase that whole chapter from the history book, it would just be like a giant "I'm sorry" almost 200 years later, and that doesnt mean much to me.

[GeeBee]

My family has been in poverty since slavery ended, and as much as it sucks I really dont think reparations would do anything to help. There are so many people who's ancestors were slaves (a lot who dont even know it) that it would be hard to even try to right that wrong. Plus it wouldnt make the situation any better, it wouldnt erase that whole chapter from the history book, it would just be like a giant "I'm sorry" almost 200 years later, and that doesnt mean much to me.

Yeah, I hear that. It's just one of those massive historical wrongs that no matter how much effort is put into it, probably cannot ever be set right.

[open mind]

reparations are useless without a first rate education....and a first rate education is just about the last thing our government is going to supply to minorities.

[GeeBee]

reparations are useless without a first rate education....and a first rate education is just about the last thing our government is going to supply to minorities.

These days, a first-rate education is a luxury reserved only for the rich.

[Duexy]

go fuck yourself
:rolleyes:

[doppelganger]

reparations are useless without a first rate education....and a first rate education is just about the last thing our government is going to supply to minorities.
so true